Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep 47: US Rep. William Timmons (R-SC)
68 Plays10 days ago
With stablecoin and market structure bills moving fast, and NFTs waiting in the wings, Rep. William Timmons explains how 2025 could finally bring clarity, credibility, and competitiveness to digital assets. From reshoring innovation to rethinking how government spends money, he walks us through the big vision—and the even bigger questions—behind America’s crypto comeback.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this Owl Explains Hootenanny, our podcast series where you can wise up on blockchain and Web3 as we talk to the people seeking to build a better internet.
00:00:17
Speaker
Owl Explains is powered by Avalabs, a blockchain software company and participant in the Avalanche ecosystem. My name is Silvia Sanchez, project manager of Owl Explains, and with that, I'll hand it over to today's amazing speakers.
Digital Asset Legislation in Congress
00:00:34
Speaker
All right, Congressman Timmons, thanks very much. Welcome to the Owl Explains podcast. You have been a strong advocate for digital asset legislation in Congress, which would give certainty and guidance and even legal standing to the digital asset community.
00:00:49
Speaker
I think our listeners will have a lot to learn from you today. So thanks very much for your time. and I appreciate you having me on. Look forward to chatting. So in the first three months of 2025, it's hard to believe it's almost already April, we've seen President Trump ah establish an office dedicated to digital assets.
00:01:07
Speaker
publicly state he wants to make the United States the crypto capital of the world. They've held a White House summit on cryptocurrencies, multiple regulatory reversals at the SEC, which has been a great thing for the industry, and multiple pieces of legislation impacting the digital asset industry are now pending in the House and Senate.
U.S. Crypto Legislation Delays and Future Bills
00:01:30
Speaker
What's your perspective on all this? I mean, I think it's long overdue. I think it's ridiculous that it's taken us this long. It's caused companies, because of the uncertainty, because of our lack of action in Congress, to to invest overseas. And I mean, you know, we're late to the game, but I think we're going get it right. and I'm very excited. ah You know, we're we just passed Stablecoin out of committee, and we're going to take up market structure shortly. And um I'm hopeful that my NFT bill is going to get passed this year. So, I mean, between those three bills, by by the end of this year, the United States will again become the best place to to start and invest and, you know, digital assets will thrive. And that's our job in Congress. And again, I'm sorry it's taken this long, but we're going to get it right.
00:02:20
Speaker
So you mentioned stable coins and FIT21, the market structure reform bill, ah your NFT bill. You know, looking back last year when the House passed the FIT21 legislation with a very bipartisan vote, it had 71 Democrats proving that, you know, these issues really, truly are, you know, they're not, they're bipartisan, but they're they're nonpartisan, right? I mean, everybody benefits from this.
00:02:49
Speaker
Given your role on the committee, any insights on market structure reform in 2025? I think it's going to be somewhat similar to last Congress, but we're going to learn from number of developments. And I think that it's going to be an improved version. You can call it FIT21+, maybe FIT21++. We'll see. So, you know, I think we're in a very good spot. And I think it's going to have even more bipartisanship.
00:03:18
Speaker
I don't know if there's many people left in Congress that are anti-crypto. There might be one or two in the Senate, but you know it is no longer fashionable to to be anti-crypto.
00:03:29
Speaker
So as as you look at changes to FIT21 to make it the plus plus, ah you mentioned your NFT bill. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? So I would love for my NFT bill to be a part of it. I think the challenge is is that the NFT bill has to go through energy and commerce, and i think that could complicate things.
00:03:52
Speaker
I'm not sure it's been 100% finalized, but I have a feeling that NFT will be going after market structure because of that reason, because of the jurisdictional issue.
00:04:03
Speaker
But it's really a necessary part of the whole conversation.
Importance of NFTs and New Legislation
00:04:07
Speaker
The future of of blockchain, of of digital assets, is inherently requires us to get the NFT part correct because the ability to use new technology to revolutionize our society requires it.
00:04:24
Speaker
And whether you're doing something as exciting as, um you know, titled a real property, if you want to transition all of a a publicly traded company or even a privately held company to, you know, tokenized stocks that are more easily ah trade traded. So, i mean, there's just a lot of things that we can do, but we got to get it all right. And, you know, stablecoin is a ah great first step.
00:04:49
Speaker
market structure is required and NFT is the the icing on the cake. And do you think all those combined together will have a positive impact on sort of, you know, you talk about making the United States a friendly place to do business. a lot of a lot of companies in the crypto space and in the blockchain development space have left the United States and I think are looking to reshore their interests and and and take advantage of the U.S. marketplace.
00:05:15
Speaker
you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I think that it's going to be It'll incentivize a lot of investment in the U.S. because we will create the regulatory certainty. And I think it's important to realize that we're not trying to do this just for the U.S. We're trying to create a global system that can be adopted by our allies and our adversaries all over the planet. Because, you know, again, these the future of these technologies is to revolutionize the world.
00:05:46
Speaker
the entire financial services, really to to revolutionize society. And, you know, that's not just a U.S. thing, but we are a big part of it. And we want to make sure that these businesses can be headquartered here and can grow here. And we want to facilitate certainty and stability in in these emerging technologies because, know,
00:06:08
Speaker
they are the future and we need to make sure that we're, we're not wondering why we didn't ever get this right. And you know, I think that we have an incredible opportunity and,
00:06:20
Speaker
we're going to do it this year. There's going to be at least a at least one or two fantastic, huge signing ceremonies at the White House. They're going to be huge. Huge is a good thing. That's okay.
Stablecoin Legislation and Senate's Role
00:06:32
Speaker
So you mentioned stablecoin legislation a couple of times. um there's In the Senate, we have the Genius Act. Of course, the banking committee is now chaired by Your home state senator, Tim Scott, from South Carolina.
00:06:46
Speaker
um the ah The House Financial Services Committee passed the Stable Act out 18 to 6 in a bipartisan vote. um Things are moving pretty quickly.
00:06:58
Speaker
So what's the next step? So I think that Chairman Hill and Chairman Stile have been working hand in hand with a number of of our colleagues in the Senate. So I would like to think that the STABLE Act is what ultimately moves.
00:07:14
Speaker
lot of work has been done on that. And i think it's reasonable to say that the expertise on digital assets in the House is a little bit more developed than in the Senate, both at the member level, at the Committee staff level, I mean, we spent a lot more time on it last Congress and our members serve on one or two committees and the senators are just pulled in a lot of different directions.
00:07:45
Speaker
So I think that we're in a position to to. get ours across the finish line hopefully, but we'll see what they want to do and we'll go from there. So let's fast forward for a little bit of time.
00:07:57
Speaker
um The committee has set and the Chairman Hill has set a pretty aggressive timeline on trying to move in a one or both bills, um ideally before the August recess.
00:08:09
Speaker
Let's just hypothetically say that the Senate plays along by the end of the year. um And we get stablecoin legislation passed in the United States. I mean, what is that going to do to make the United States a global leader in crypto?
00:08:23
Speaker
Look, each one of these bills will help move the ah move the ball in the right direction. But I really think that we need to do all three before the end of the year. And that will really...
00:08:37
Speaker
answer all of the questions, it'll solve all the uncertainties and it will allow businesses to invest. So much right now and the economy is The uncertainty, the delay, I mean, the the tax code is another major issue, how tariffs are going to impact things. There's just a lot of things right now that are up in the air.
00:08:58
Speaker
And I think we need to get all of these things handled by the end of the year, whether it is the the tax code through reconciliation, um whether it is the future of digital assets and blockchain through these three bills that we're talking about.
00:09:13
Speaker
or whether it is resetting the the global trade paradigm so people can have some normalcy and some certainty. Obviously, we have the midterms next November, and we need to make sure that we show the American people and show the world that our policies work.
00:09:33
Speaker
And in order for us to do that, we have to unleash the investment that is waiting. There's trillions of dollars that is waiting to be deployed.
Global Trade and Investment through Blockchain
00:09:42
Speaker
And we've got to pass all these things. We've got to do reconciliation and fix the tax code. We've got to stabilize all of the, what we we have to pass all the market structure stable coin and NFT to unleash such an enormous amount of potential in the future of digital assets and blockchain and um You know, we have to get the new trade paradigm set so we have the stability necessary for people to deploy capital.
00:10:09
Speaker
All of those things are going to transform our economy and it will really um show the world and show the American people that the policies that we are advocating for, they're common sense and and they will lead to a prosperous America and we will have a unified government for another two years.
00:10:31
Speaker
Let's talk about stable coins a little bit more in the retail sense. Right. So, I mean, it's been incredibly encouraging the conversations that I've had and you've had with a lot of your colleagues over the course of the past, you know, two or three years versus four or five years ago. um You know, there's still a lot of education to be done.
00:10:53
Speaker
But that public perception of cryptocurrencies and blockchain, I think, has improved dramatically. I mean, do you get that sense? and and And is there a future where stable coins are used in a retail basis?
00:11:08
Speaker
Absolutely. I've been saying for four years that... that digital assets are the the the answer to the the interchange argument, to the swipe fee argument. Using blockchain to to to trade digital assets and to use digital assets to to pay for goods or services, I mean, there's no question that in five or 10 years, that's the only way that we're going to do it.
00:11:33
Speaker
You know, people don't take cash now. I mean, there's there's a world in which in 10, 20 years, they don't they don't take a car that's charging 3%.
00:11:45
Speaker
So, you know, I think that technology can solve a lot of the challenges that we face. And really, it's all about removing unnecessary intermediaries. And, you know, whether that's title insurance, because you don't need title insurance, because, you know, you got...
00:12:03
Speaker
Blockchain and tokenized real property. i mean, you know, the the the cost associated with issuing stock for a company. I mean, you know, you you got NFT and market structure. We're good to go. So, I mean, you know, all of these things.
00:12:20
Speaker
will have a a revolutionary impact. And we're not were not we might not be a year or two away, but we're not 20 years away. Yeah, that's ah i mean i yeah i mean i I hadn't thought about some of those examples, and you're absolutely spot
Blockchain's Non-Financial Applications
00:12:36
Speaker
on.
00:12:36
Speaker
um Stepping away from the crypto side for a second and just looking at the blockchain technology, you know the underlying technology that sort of makes it all work,
00:12:48
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of examples and a lot of use cases that are non-financial for blockchain technology. And I'm just curious, you know, whether it's in supply chain, accounting, government operations, the budget process, perhaps.
00:13:05
Speaker
um I mean, thoughts on government's utilization of blockchain over the course of the next decade? Absolutely. I think transparency is the biggest issue. And creating a public ledger that is available to be audited by anyone is really kind of the future.
00:13:25
Speaker
So, you know, we got all this government spending that Doge is getting into. i mean, Elon Musk's team could easily... basically create the ultimate level of transparency and anybody that wants to look at it can look at it. And I just, I think that the the opportunities really are endless and the applications are endless, but you got to have the foundation set. And so we're setting the foundation right now.
00:13:52
Speaker
And, you know, it's going to take time, but I think that we're going to get there. And I think the efficiencies and the the increased confidence and the increased transparency is something that is just very is very promising.
00:14:07
Speaker
So when you look at government operations, I think, you know, I always think about you you talk about transparency and we're talking about tax dollars. right We're talking about federal funding.
00:14:17
Speaker
And when you look at agencies, and this one's a hotspot lately, but when you look at FEMA, right i mean the the allocation of funds post-emergency,
00:14:28
Speaker
um you know FEMA, yeah i mean just think for a split second, think out loud if you would. if If FEMA was required to use blockchain technology to track and transfer all the funds that go through the FEMA process to Start to finish.
00:14:45
Speaker
Start to finish. So and that's not just FEMA. Everything. if if If it was publicly accessible on on the blockchain, you would be able to track every dollar, every dollar that Congress allocated and you'd be able to do the flow through.
00:15:03
Speaker
So the crazy thing, like this USAID stuff, we were giving them billions and billions of dollars, and they would create these ridiculous entities, and then they would give the money to the entity, and then that entity would be completely, there's no transparency at that point. So it's just like whatever happens. I mean, I think the worst or the best example, while you look at it, is the Stacey Abrams.
00:15:24
Speaker
She created a put $100 in it, and then Biden admin gave her $2 billion with a the biden admin gave her two billion dollars with a be It's absolutely insane.
00:15:34
Speaker
Honestly, I thought it was criminal, but then I looked into it and it just defies all logic. It's actually not criminal, but it should be. And no... No person with any degree of common sense would ever say that Stacey Abrams should be given $2 billion. Do you know what I'm talking about? She actually was given this money to go and buy new appliances, new energy-efficient appliances for people in South Georgia.
00:16:04
Speaker
I mean... but One, it's like Obama phones 2.0. He needed swing votes in Ohio. It's weird. The pilot program for Obama phones were only in Ohio when they needed to win Ohio. So, ah you know, they're going to use a bunch of and green new scam dollars. My new favorite term is green new scam.
00:16:22
Speaker
ah But yeah, we're going to use green new scam dollars to funnel through a... nonprofit to give money to people to get new appliances. I don't know. I mean, if somebody gave me a nice new refrigerator, I might vote for somebody, but you know, I don't know.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and If we if we put it on the blockchain, none of that happens. That's right. Right.
Dismissal of U.S. CBDC and Tax Preferences
00:16:43
Speaker
the The transparency is is kind of enlightening, isn't it? um I think one of the bills that the committee moved out last week with the stable coin legislation might have been Mr. Emmer's anti CBDC bill.
00:16:56
Speaker
um You want to talk about the concerns around CBDCs and and in in the the steps the committee is taking there? I don't know if there are concerns. We're never going to have a CBDC. We're just not going to. So we're going to pass a bill on it out of the house. But I mean, it's just a non-starter.
00:17:11
Speaker
So I don't even, yeah. I mean, the the central bank digital currency, the the Democrats wanted to do a deep dive on people's bank accounts. They wanted to say, if you have $500 more,
00:17:25
Speaker
or more In one year in cash going and out of your bank account, your entire bank account gets to get audited by the IRS. And they just want to use that to generate revenue to spend money.
00:17:38
Speaker
And we're just not going to have that. We're gonna we're we're actually going to go the opposite direction. And I mean, the president wants to move away from even having the need for the IRS.
00:17:50
Speaker
So, I mean, you know, if we go to a to a use tax, to ah ah a national sales tax that we use similar to the European VAT, we won't call it a VAT, but it's a sales tax. And we replace income tax with that. And actually love that approach because if you do that, you can then have buckets of stuff. I mean, you know, you have – ah healthy food is, has no tax on it.
00:18:16
Speaker
If you want to buy a Ferrari, you're going to pay a whole bunch of tax. If you want to get a Snickers, we're to pay tax. I mean, you could do a sales tax to replace it. And I mean, the reason we don't want a CBDC is because we don't want the government to be able to, to, to track and control people's lives.
00:18:32
Speaker
But I think that we're going to move in the opposite One, we're never going to have a CBDC. Two, I think that we're going to move away from the IRS entirely because the the president is is up in arms about Europe's VAT because it is a tariff. It's a backdoor tariff.
00:18:49
Speaker
And he wants to basically be on an even playing field in the global economy. And we can't really fix their VAT. They can't undo their VAT, but we can match it and we could we could restructure our revenue streams from an overly complicated IRS you know tax structure to a sales tax that is use-based.
00:19:13
Speaker
And we could use technology to make that very efficient. So I think that that's the direction we're going in. But look, CBDC, non-starter. Yeah, well, I think I think, look, a lot of people agree that we don't have a tax
Blockchain for Government Transparency
00:19:28
Speaker
collection problem. We have a spending problem.
00:19:30
Speaker
um And if you looked at, you know to your point earlier, if you looked at putting, shall we say, the appropriations process or the government's budget, you know, what the agencies actually spend on blockchain.
00:19:44
Speaker
providing Congress and taxpayers with the visibility and the transparency of where their tax dollars go, that that that'd go a long way to solving some problems. Absolutely. what um what What else can the digital asset community, I know you hear from a lot of people.
00:19:59
Speaker
um I think the one thing that the observation that that sort of I think the industry has is thus far in a lot of the hearings, um you know, there's been a lot of lawyers and there's been a lot of professors.
00:20:13
Speaker
And um and there haven't necessarily been a whole lot of, you know, Web3 developers and blockchain technologists participating in the hearing process. um ah You know, so what what can we do to enhance that?
00:20:27
Speaker
Are there any questions that, you know, you need the answers to to continue to push the ball forward? Or what can the industry do to work with you? I think the biggest challenge we have right now is Member level education, staff level education.
00:20:47
Speaker
We've gotten past this whole crypto is a bad thing, digital assets are a bad thing. And now people just don't understand it. So I think the more that people can try to educate their member of Congress, reach out to their member of Congress, try to meet with their staff, educate their staff,
00:21:05
Speaker
you know people that are on committee or you know adjacent understand what's going on and they have a better knowledge base. But
00:21:17
Speaker
I don't know how to say this. There's a lot of really old people in Congress. And this is there's an age gap. And if you try to explain to 75-year-old Why digital assets of the future and how the blockchain works.
00:21:33
Speaker
I mean, that'd be a Netflix series. you could You could make money on that. I'd watch it. So, you know, i think that we need to make sure that. People understand that this is a representative a form of government. And if you think that your elected official ah in Congress or in the Senate doesn't understand the issue, their staff will talk to you.
00:21:57
Speaker
You might get a member with a meeting. You might get a meeting with a member. Who knows? So, I mean, I would just say that don't assume that your member of Congress or your senator understands the issue. Don't assume their staff understands the issue.
Focus on Key Bills and Tech-Driven Changes
00:22:08
Speaker
You know, the the financial services committee has 50 people on it and banking has whatever, 14. So um apparently my team is telling me I need to wrap it up shortly. I apologize.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's OK. The only thing I was going to say, is there anything else that you're working on in this space that you want to tell people about and final thoughts? You know, I'm committed to helping stablecoin and market structure get across finish line, make sure that we can have the party at the White House.
00:22:39
Speaker
And obviously NFT, I think, is an incredibly important component of creating the the the structure, creating the answers to every possible question that an investor could have, and then allowing all of the laws that we've created to be adopted globally. So, I mean, I think those three things are the most important for this year. And I think getting them done this year, you know, I guess the more final thoughts in 10 years, it's going to be silly and people aren't even going to understand what it's like today.
00:23:19
Speaker
I mean, if you think about 20 years ago, the iPhone came out. And people can't imagine what life would be like then. So I just really think that 10, 20 years from now, our society will be drastically more transformed because of what we're doing right now than even the difference between now and 20 years ago.
00:23:45
Speaker
So I would say that it it will be wildly transformed more transformative what we're doing right now. And I think that's exciting because I think it's going to, it's going to really create a lot of efficiencies. It's going to create a lot of transparency and it's going to give us the opportunity to, to really grow the economy and help people in, in, in developing countries that a lot of these things are going to solve some of their biggest problems.
00:24:18
Speaker
And it's just exciting to be a part of
Podcast Conclusion and Resources
00:24:20
Speaker
it. Yeah, well, on that optimistic note, thank you very much, Congressman William Timmons from South Carolina, for participating in today's Owl Explains podcast.
00:24:32
Speaker
And we'll be cheering for you.
00:24:37
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed our Hootenanny. Thank you for listening. For more hootful and hype-free resources, visit owlexplains.com. There, you will find articles, quizzes, practical explainers, suggested reading materials, and lots more.
00:24:53
Speaker
Also, follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to continue wising up on blockchain and Web3. That's all for now on Owl Explains. Until next time.