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Episode 5: Streaming Platforms
105 Plays16 days ago
Join Deepak and Julian as they discuss the history and impact of streaming platforms on the Indian cinema landscape.
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Transcript
Welcome and Introductions
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Conversing Cinema, a podcast about films from India and occasionally beyond. Your co-hosts are Deepak Mahan and me, Julian Caldrey.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to the latest episode of Conversing Cinema.
Impact of OTT Streaming on Indian Cinema
00:00:26
Speaker
I'm Julian, I'm joined by my co-host Deepak. Hi Deepak. Hi, how are you?
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm doing great. It's been a little while since we recorded an episode. i did enjoy your last episode on the Sound of Music very much, so thank you for doing that. Today, we have a bit of a different topic. We're not going to be discussing a particular film or star.
Changes in Production and Viewing Habits
00:00:49
Speaker
We're going to be talking about OTT, streaming platforms. And in particular, we'll be talking about... how streaming platforms have changed the cinema going landscape in India, because I think they have had a significant effect on not only production, but also viewing habits.
00:01:12
Speaker
So that's our topic for today. And the first thing I'm wondering about is Deepak, do you remember when you first started using streaming platforms in India? Do you remember when that was and what it was you were watching at that time?
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think broadly, yes, because I was one of the first ones actually in India to be part of the internet down writing and internet programming.
00:01:42
Speaker
the best of platforms that were coming up. So I was writing for them and I was doing a lot of stuff for them. So when these things also came in, they were always informing me.
Early Streaming Days in India
00:01:51
Speaker
And if I remember correctly and my memory serves me right, it was somewhere around 2008 or so that we had oh Reliance Entertainment coming up with big flicks.
00:02:02
Speaker
And then, you know, it was followed by a few mobile apps and all. And people were largely curious, but they were not very sure that this would actually last as a... They thought this was a gimmick.
00:02:15
Speaker
But then I think around 2012 or 13 something when Sony Live came in and there were other various platforms which were appearing in the regional domain also with...
00:02:29
Speaker
That is the time I think suddenly people oh woke up that this live streaming can be of some kind of an effect. And I think because they took up along with Hotstar and all some of the sports programs also being streamed on mobiles and various other ways that suddenly redefined the horizons of the OTT.
00:02:53
Speaker
And then biggest, I think, splash that took place was the entry of Netflix and Amazon Prime Video somewhere around 2016. And then the market really exploded.
00:03:04
Speaker
So I think initially people were glued to their TVs and they were just used to and regularly watching in the evening or maybe more watch the cricket matches. But this was something very, very new.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I think people of my age and all, took some time to even understand or even take it a little more seriously. But so as far as the youngsters were concerned, I think they were hooked in.
00:03:31
Speaker
And from Amazon and Netflix onwards, I think it really made a real dent in the market. Yeah, that's so I came to India, I moved
Transition from Cable to Streaming
00:03:44
Speaker
to India in 2016, and that was when Netflix launched here.
00:03:47
Speaker
And the funny thing is, I remember when I first moved here, that the streaming platforms were so what was so relatively insignificant that even I took out a subscription on a cable box to get television and and movies, to get access to TV and movies.
00:04:09
Speaker
But within a couple of years, the OTT platforms had become so pervasive and the selection of content had become so vast that I stopped subscribing to my cable box because I found that everything that I wanted was available on streaming, including, like you say, sport has been a huge thing in India in terms of streaming adoption. But I've always been more interested in television and movies. And i found around 2018 that...
00:04:37
Speaker
particularly with the release of some domestically produced content, that OTT platform started to become really mainstream here.
Sacred Games' Influence on Streaming Popularity
00:04:45
Speaker
And the one series that I remember making a huge splash was Sacred Games on Netflix. That seemed to be a turning point in terms of streaming awareness of streaming platforms and people's enthusiasm for them because that was a very high profile piece of locally produced content and very good show actually so in my memory it really although the platforms were there for a while i think from 2018 onwards that was when everyone started talking about netflix and amazon prime and really i don't know about subscription numbers but it seemed to be part of the conversation from that point onwards
00:05:19
Speaker
But did you did you enjoy those OTT platforms on the mobile itself? Did you try them out initially on the mobile? No, I hate watching movies on my mobile, so I've always had them on my television.
00:05:32
Speaker
I'm so wedded to the theatrical experience. even ah Even watching a film on television for me is a huge compromise. So the mobile is one step too far in most cases. But I know that that's something that's perhaps...
00:05:45
Speaker
more specific to someone of my age compared to, you know, someone in their 20s. So one thing that I remember about the early days of locally produced content on OTT was that censorship wasn't being applied strictly or at all to those productions, which is in stark contrast to productions that are theatrically released here, which are subject to fairly stringent censorship.
Censorship and Content Freedom on Streaming
00:06:12
Speaker
So one of the water cooler conversations that was happening at the time in 2018 with Sacred Games and some of the other initial Indian productions was how explicit they were. I mean, this is something that I think was most audiences in India weren't accustomed to from Indian productions. And There was an element of sort of titillation, I suppose, associated with that as a hook to get people to watch.
00:06:38
Speaker
But it also genuinely did open up, I suppose, a different set of tonalities in terms of storytelling that weren't available to filmmakers if they were planning to release theatrically. I'm not sure if you if that was something that stands out in your memory, but it certainly seemed to be a differentiator at the time.
00:06:54
Speaker
No, in fact, you're dead right. I did come across as I told you, but I was not very seriously hooked up till the time that I started missing these channels in 2014 and all.
00:07:07
Speaker
And then for a year or so, I didn't know what to do because these were just off and you couldn't do anything. And then people introduced me. Then again, the problem was to watch it on that small screen was not my cup of tea.
00:07:20
Speaker
But then when you saw that this was available on YouTube, Yes, you saw it. But you're right. Actually, the word of mouth that went around, if you went to the park for a walk or if you went to the market or you were with friends somewhere and especially in Bombay and all, you would come across people who would be talking about something that is very, I would not say revolutionary, but which was very, very different because ah the television and the film both were...
00:07:51
Speaker
oh exhibition the exhibit exhibition had to be properly censored through. ah There was a broadcasting authority for the television.
00:08:02
Speaker
There was a censor board the films. But here, suddenly in the regional space, actually, that is where it actually took off. A lot of small town people found that this technology was very, very easy to handle.
00:08:16
Speaker
It was very, very cheap to kind of film and exhibit. And they started doing and some of the, I would say, ah baser elements of human psychology got embedded into those storytelling forms.
00:08:31
Speaker
And largely they were very, very crude as well as very, very, um I think, dirty also in the sense there was a lot of nudity, there was a lot of abuse and there was a lot of violence.
00:08:46
Speaker
And this actually is what actually put me off until, of course, we once again came to Netflix and Amazon Prime and all. And there also I found... that you really had to sift through the subjects and really find something which suited your temperament. Otherwise, most of it was actually, as they said, over the top. It was over the top of your head actually.
00:09:07
Speaker
It was so crude, so diabolical at times that you felt, what is this happening on the screen? So yes, the topics were very different and the treatment was very different.
00:09:22
Speaker
And the worst part was that it was actually appealing to the baser elements of the human nature. Now that's what something really was not my cup of tea and it somehow sometimes did not appeal to me. Even today, I don't think I'm too much of a ah absorber or a consumer of OTT platforms.
00:09:43
Speaker
And unless and until I read a few things and I hear from a few places that this is worth it, I don't actually go down to seeing it. And then also I would rather watch it on my big 24-inch screen of the desktop or my TV, but I can't watch it on the mobile. Mobile, even otherwise, every now and then you get all these reels and all which keep coming.
00:10:08
Speaker
I'm still wary of Instagram and various other things. Yeah, it is very much a generational thing. But it's funny, talking about the... the types of things that were being produced in India in the early days of streaming.
00:10:24
Speaker
i I'm a huge fan of genre cinema. And so for me, those early productions, which were very explicit in terms of violence and sex, actually I loved.
00:10:36
Speaker
And it was very refreshing for me to see... Indian content that was being produced in such an uninhibited way. It's something that at the cinema was was never really available.
00:10:49
Speaker
And I imagine for filmmakers too it was an interesting experience for them to have those constraints lifted, at least for a period of time. I mean, it's changed now and we can we can come to that a little later. but yeah the the The things that we produced on Netflix and Amazon in the early days very quickly settled into a pattern or a very specific genre of kind of gangster and police procedural web series. Yeah.
00:11:15
Speaker
And there were so many of those produced in quick succession and that was so popular. um i think that's somewhat exhausted itself now. I know those things are still being produced, but that that was very characteristic of the first two or three years of of domestically produced streaming content.
Pandemic and Rise of Regional Films
00:11:33
Speaker
And then, of course, the pandemic happened. And i have a very specific memory of certain things that were happening in terms of film production and distribution during the pandemic.
00:11:46
Speaker
So obviously cinemas were closed. And what I remember happening is that there was a sudden influx of smaller films that had been produced for cinematic release that were being then released on streaming as the only option for distribution at that time.
00:12:06
Speaker
So a lot of regional cinema, a lot of Maliatam films, a lot of Tamil cinema were suddenly appearing on streaming. And what was interesting about that was that they were often subtitled or even dubbed, which at that time was quite unusual for films, regional films, and therefore were available to me as an English speaker. And I presume available to but anyone who wanted to read subtitles.
00:12:34
Speaker
And could find a much wider audience. And my the narrative that kind of has formed in my mind around that is ah much broader audience suddenly started to consume regional cinema and started to become very enthusiastic about regional films through the pandemic. um There are certain films that I think were real breakthroughs.
00:13:00
Speaker
The Great Indian Kitchen is one of them. It's Malayalam film. Very good if you haven't watched it. um but I'm sure there were many others. So that was one interesting thing that happened during the pandemic. What were your viewing habits like during that lockdown time?
00:13:15
Speaker
Well, actually, Julian, I have always been a very avid reader of books. So but not many people people would believe it, but for the last almost about 40 to 45 years, I consumed one book every week almost.
00:13:30
Speaker
And I think another factor that came in was that There was so much of regional. You talked about Malayalam. That's one of the most intelligent cinemas like Bengali cinema. But what we were watching because of our is that the Rajasthani stuff, the Bhojpuri stuff, the Avadi stuff, the Punjabi stuff, which was, you know, too much full of raucous and I would say crude nudity and oh double meaning metaphors.
00:14:03
Speaker
which did not appeal to me because I'm too literary a person, a little too civilized also. So it did not. So in actually, in my case, it put me off. But when I went around and i I talked to people, I found most of the people were actually going through these because they were very raunchy songs which were coming. These were very raunchy kind of with lot of sexual innuendoes in the...
00:14:30
Speaker
serials and all which were going around on the OTT platform. And since there was no censorship, people were enjoying it in their bedrooms and all. And I used to talk to my friends and all. They were used to keep asking me, ah why haven't you seen this? This has got this. And then, you know, the whole thing actually put me off.
00:14:47
Speaker
Well, you know, we are all humans. And I think that there is, there's a, you know, whatever you think of the, whatever you think of the artistry, there is always an audience for, you know,
00:14:59
Speaker
that type of film. And, you know, I'm probably less highbrow than you. I'm, I've, I enjoy genre. I enjoy bad movies sometimes. So I don't judge it as harshly, but I think what you're, what you're talking about is, is factually true that once we were all forced to watch streaming platforms, because that was the only option that we had during the pandemic, there was, i think a,
00:15:27
Speaker
a highly mixed level of quality in terms of what was being produced and released onto streaming. And that became quite notorious at the time. And I remember some industry chatter when the big platforms were pretty much buying anything that they could get their hands on.
00:15:45
Speaker
A lot of things were being specifically produced for streaming, a lot of movies, and they were terrible. i mean, it was just junk that was just real filler content. And that didn't last for very long. I think people woke up to that fairly quickly.
00:15:59
Speaker
And I know that the platforms became a lot stricter in terms of what they were purchasing. But for a time there, there was just this flood low-quality content alongside some really excellent films that were being made and released on streaming.
00:16:15
Speaker
it was very mixed experience in terms of the overall level of quality. I think one thing that happened, though, during that time was because everyone became very much more comfortable with streaming platforms...
00:16:30
Speaker
It's opened a whole massive window up to Indian audiences to global content. And it's funny that you talk about serials, and I think we should have a separate episode on serials because the Indian serials fascinate me.
00:16:47
Speaker
But one thing I noticed during the pandemic, and it's really become an enduring legacy, is that Indian audiences were finally able to consume Korean serials, for example.
00:16:59
Speaker
and yes global you know world cinema. yeah And that taste has become something that is an ongoing taste in Indian audiences for certain types of global content.
00:17:17
Speaker
And that for that for me does feel like some kind of breakthrough because one thing that I felt when I first came to India and talk with friends about their taste in cinema is that Indian tastes in cinema...
00:17:30
Speaker
had historically been largely fairly parochial. And either you kind of watched your own regional cinema or you watched Hindi movies and and that was kind of it.
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, there wasn't really... And you occasionally you'd find a real cinephile who would make an effort to seek out global cinema. And definitely there is a culture of cinephilia in India which is very vibrant, but it's very much in the minority. And I feel like...
00:17:57
Speaker
One of the legacies of the streaming platforms here is that they've genuinely broadened people's horizons in terms of the sorts of things that Indian audiences love to watch now.
Access to Global Content
00:18:10
Speaker
And I think that's a good thing. I think that that's an... No, no, in fact, you're very correct.
00:18:16
Speaker
See, like every particular happening or product, There are pros and cons. I think you are absolutely correct, Julian, that it did open out vistas of Indian imagination and experience because and lots of Indians earlier were just basically sitting down with either the soaps of Starn and Sony or Z or Doordarshan or the Hindi cinema, which was available to them to the at the nearest point.
00:18:49
Speaker
But yes, this pandemic and the lockdown suddenly opened out the whole world to them. And they did because they were not occupied with any kind of serious work.
00:19:00
Speaker
On a regular basis, people were not occupied for almost about 8 to 10 hours of their working. It was totally free for them. And they were looking to do something.
00:19:12
Speaker
And that's when OTT suddenly opened up the Vista. And that's why World Cinema came out to them. And they were able to see lots of things. But like I said, there was also a lot of trash which was being supplied by ott which in a way, because the technology was cheap and could be any two people or four people could get together and do something.
00:19:36
Speaker
So even the worst kinds of things were being shown on OTT. And also it showed that, you know, a cinema in a way has suffered, I feel, because of the OTT suddenly booming.
00:19:48
Speaker
Because now everybody wants to watch something or the other in the quiet of their own mobiles or their own tablets or their own computers. And this has suddenly you opened out the market to a very large extent.
00:20:03
Speaker
And it has also ah kind of opened a parallel, I would say, competition with the cinema. And so it's both good, it's both bad. It's good in the sense that some of the people, they may be not tutored from the film institutes, but yet they are very agile, smart,
00:20:24
Speaker
intelligent people who are able to tell stories. They're good storytellers. And within the small frame of, you know, without huge budgets and all, they show you some caliber, which is really amazing.
00:20:42
Speaker
And on the other hand, what happens is some of the people, because that kind of understanding is not there, but they think that any mobile and all can be just turned around and you can do the recording.
00:20:53
Speaker
So they are also making films and somehow in that sense, certain very demeaning stuff, very degrading stuff also comes as part of OTT. But yes, in a way, I would say cinema has been challenged and cinematic people or people from the cinema industry have to be on their toes now because they have to realize that they can't fool the public with their big budgets and just big stars and all.
00:21:19
Speaker
And that is why I think cinema is crashing at the moment because they are finding a lot of stories in small 5-minute, 10-minute, which are being told are sometimes so engaging, so emotionally connecting and so gratifying that you would actually not go to see a you know bigger film on the same subject.
00:21:37
Speaker
e That's where cinema people have to really wake up and they have to think and think again and again as to how they can make the best use of their equipment and money.
00:21:49
Speaker
So let's unpack the current state of Indian cinema with respect to the impact of OTT. Because I think... As you say, there are, it's it's had many different impacts on the industry and on viewing habits.
00:22:08
Speaker
It's undeniably true that streaming platforms have changed the level of engagement audiences have with the theatrical experience. And that's not just an India statement, I think that's a global statement.
00:22:19
Speaker
um I think ah it's it's it's hard to know how that will play out ah in the long term. People are obviously still going to the cinema. My view is that the theatrical experience is quite distinct from watching a film at home.
00:22:35
Speaker
i i feel that personally. um i find it very hard to concentrate for the full length of a film at home, which is kind of a very depressing statement. But so for me, if I want to...
00:22:47
Speaker
really experience a film and really focus on it the only option for me is to go to the cinema and that's that's what i get out of that experience yeah but but if we have a look at the sorts of films that are being produced now and the the level of quality and the level of audience engagement it's a couple of things that jump out at me one is i definitely feel like the Indian audiences awareness of regional cinema is one of the enduring legacies of the OTT experience. And I see a lot of my friends here in Bangalore enthusiastically consume regional cinemas from across India in a way that I just didn't, I wasn't aware of before the pandemic.
00:23:28
Speaker
So that I think is a very good thing. I think regional cinema has found new audiences and that's wonderful. The other thing which I think is less wonderful is the rise of the pan-India film. And I don't know how you feel about this, but I i have very quickly learned to detest the idea of the pan-India film.
00:23:50
Speaker
And it's already coalesced into some kind of formula cinematically where you have... a few stars from different regional cinemas making cameos to capture this sort of a larger audience.
00:24:04
Speaker
Maybe one Hindi star will be in it. I mean, Cooley is the latest example, which I saw the other day, but there are multiple of the past two or three years, multiple examples of this sort of pan India formula. And in general, the films are terrible.
00:24:15
Speaker
and That's a blanket statement. Some of them have been better than others, but I think that, This sort of coming together of the Indian audience around non-Hindi content in the form of the pan-India South Indian film has been one of the flow on effects of this broadening of the Indian audience for different types of cinema here.
00:24:35
Speaker
The other thing that I wanted to ask you about is it seems like Hindi cinema is going through a bit of a rush.
Decline in Hindi Cinema Attendance
00:24:42
Speaker
Now, again, that's ah that's a Julian personal statement. That's just my observation.
00:24:47
Speaker
Do you think that has anything to do with the streaming platform? So what's your point of view on that? No, I think that's true. Look at the footfalls that are there.
00:24:59
Speaker
Films are certainly suffering. And they're suffering largely because of the fact that and people who are creating these films are deficient in lots of ah areas of filmmaking. I would say first and foremost, the language.
00:25:17
Speaker
I believe that the writer is the greatest superstar when the page is written. That is the time you start a particular character and that character has to be portrayed on the screen.
00:25:30
Speaker
And that is the job of the… I think Hindi cinema largely is not respecting the writer. On top of it, people are going through ah series of… you know, money bags are coming in. They just want to pump in and they think that the bigger the name and all, but we've seen the best of stars, their films are crashing.
00:25:54
Speaker
And because people are getting novelty on OTT platform, because OTT platform is definitely because there's costing much less and there are no established stars.
00:26:08
Speaker
So people have a much more of a democratic oh way of making those stories and gradually people's want of good stories, emotionally connecting, is satiating their urge.
00:26:27
Speaker
Now, if your urge is sat satiated by two or three films every day of 10 minutes or 15 minutes of duration, obviously, I'm not going to go and see a bigger film on almost the same kind of a subject anywhere else.
00:26:42
Speaker
So cinema is suffering because the fact is they are now not creating films, they are manufacturing films. And that's like a oh tool room industry industrial manufacturer. You can manufacture a car.
00:26:56
Speaker
You can manufacture... a particular furniture, but you can't create a work of art in a manner of manufacturing on a shop floor.
00:27:09
Speaker
This is what is happening with most of the Indian cinema. And of another thing that I feel is that OTT is also in a certain way, draining up people's a emotional and psychological wants.
00:27:26
Speaker
There's so much of flooding. There's so much of oh bombardment of OTT platforms in various ways, whether it is sports, whether it is discussions, whether it is documentary-oriented or docudramas or cinematic stories.
00:27:46
Speaker
But the fact remains that people are consuming so much that ultimately the man who would actually pick him up ah pick himself up or herself and then make that effort to go to a cinema hall and spend 400 bucks per person and then see a cinema and that too in a PVR theater on an INAX theater where the sound is too, too, too loud at times.
00:28:13
Speaker
that It somehow disturbs. I have had discussions with several senior citizens and they say that one of the reasons that they don't go to the cinema hall is not because they don't enjoy and they would not like to go. They would very much like to go.
00:28:27
Speaker
But these cinema halls and all are not controlling the volume levels. So every now and then with these films having so much of cacophony of music,
00:28:38
Speaker
accompanying each and every the scene, they find it a little too difficult to adjust and cope up. So in a way, OTT is damaging that ah cinematic market.
00:28:52
Speaker
Cinema's market is being damaged because people get exhausted so much by watching everything on their mobiles and on their laptops that they find it very difficult to go.
00:29:06
Speaker
And unless... people really come up with some brilliant films and come up with something which is very, very different. I don't think in Indian cinema ah can survive.
00:29:18
Speaker
This Indian industry really has to think and they have to respect serious writers. but it then And then not just serious writers are trying give their visions a concrete reality on screen.
00:29:36
Speaker
but rather than just because some star comes and he wants this to be changed and that to be changed. Even they interfere so much in terms of the oh artistic makeup of the film, right from art direction to costumes to dialogues and all, which they actually don't understand the milieu of of which the cinema is set in or that story has been set in.
00:29:57
Speaker
And they just come and barge in they force their way. then actually it leads to bad cinema. And that is why I think regional cinema is doing much better. And that too, not all regional cinema.
00:30:09
Speaker
I think largely the regional cinema of the South because they have the wherewithal, their technical knowledge, plus the kind of writers who would make a dent in terms of story and the cinematic appeal.
00:30:23
Speaker
And on top of it, they know how to do their craft well within a budgeted frame of space, time, and money. And that is, I think, doing them a world of good.
00:30:37
Speaker
And that is why they are doing much better than the Hindi cinema, which is shrinking. Yeah, I agree with you about the rise of regional cinema. um And I wonder, I mean, it's, I'm a huge fan of, ah particularly Malayalam and Tamil movies. And there's a huge amount of,
00:30:57
Speaker
fabulous cinema being produced and released theatrically in those markets and i'm very gratified to see those films being released more widely outside of those states as well so i live in bangalore and although this is a canada speaking state we regularly get tamala malayalam and telegore film screening here as well as hindi films and english films so i think there is a a growing acceptance within some markers of a really wide range of regional cinemas, which is only a good thing in terms of if you're a cinephile, that's just a wonderful thing.
00:31:37
Speaker
it's I can see hindi so the Hindi industry grappling with it. And I've seen some interviews recently, um you know, asking that question, what what can Hindi cinema learn from regional films, which are having so much success right now?
00:31:52
Speaker
So I think that will play out. I think Hindi cinema will have to adapt. I'd love to see some of the things that you're describing come true. So I'd love to see better scripts, wonderful writing. I'd just like to interject at this point, Julian.
00:32:07
Speaker
I think one of the reasons the regional cinema is always going to have an advantage over the Hindi cinema is that the regional cinema has the audiences set for it, one. Then those audiences understand certain very...
00:32:22
Speaker
deft nuances and references which are there. When you make a Hindi film and you make it for pan Indian audiences, you have to give a lot of explanations in between, which somehow the other, the great masters knew how to do metaphorically by the image or by some kind of very small deft edition.
00:32:47
Speaker
But what is happening largely now at this particular moment is that they get the oh normal Bombay, Mumbai filmmakers at the moment. They do they are not conversant with Hindi language as such.
00:33:02
Speaker
They're not conversant with the literary yeah nuances. And they're not conversant with any one region also in the sense that they understand Punjab or they understand Assam or they understand UP or they understand ah Tamil Nadu. No.
00:33:17
Speaker
So they just have a smattering and most of these people are coming from very English backgrounds. They've hardly done any kind of study of the regional literature. So they try to give their kind of synthetic versions.
Global OTT Challenges and Hollywood
00:33:30
Speaker
And in the sense, they become two verboss and the Hindi films are because of its verbosity, is losing out. Whereas the regional cinema has lot of very authentic and very definitive silences and, I would say, images which make concrete sense to the people who are viewing those.
00:33:55
Speaker
Because those regional audiences understand those cinematic ah metaphors very clearly because of their backgrounds being similar. Sure. not true in this. I think that's true. And regional cinemas do have the advantage of being able to assume a certain level of knowledge and context with their audiences in a way that Hindi cinema can't because it's such it's aiming for such a broad reach.
00:34:20
Speaker
But it also comes down to the elegance of storytelling. And as you say, i think all films need to... give some context to their audiences. There are very few films that don't give any background information in order to make the storytelling make sense.
00:34:36
Speaker
But it's in the elegance of the storytelling and the way that that's done, I think, that really elevates... some films above others. And coming back to your earlier point, most of that comes back to how well is the film written?
00:34:51
Speaker
How compact is the storytelling? You know, how how well is all of that craft done? And maybe at the end of the day, a lot of this stuff comes back to just elevating the craft of cinema back to levels that will then create a satisfying experience for audiences. And maybe, you know, fundamentally, that's one thing that we've kind of lost over the the past 10 years or so.
00:35:21
Speaker
No, even I would say regional film also sometimes are very, very bad. Like I went and saw Mohan Lal. I think he's a good actor. I went to see his last film, Emporan, and it was so bad.
00:35:34
Speaker
it is terrible. It was so bad that I actually cursed myself for spending those 400 bucks. ah And I had a few people along with me who all felt that it was more were much more trashier than even a Bollywood film.
00:35:47
Speaker
That made no sense. So, I think it's largely to do with the filmmakers sensibilities as to what kind of film they're making and how they're making.
00:35:58
Speaker
And this also, you know, a question comes to my mind because you're a person who's traveling around the world. You are in the IT industry hooked on to the Indian films as well as Malayalam films and then your sensibilities are much better than an average Indian's, I would say, cinematic sense.
00:36:18
Speaker
But you are an international audience for us. How do you see the ODT affecting, you know, is it affecting Hollywood or is it affecting the Australian cinema or other places and all where you generally travel around the world?
00:36:34
Speaker
So I can only really share my my observations as a cinema goer. um It seems to me that Hollywood is grappling with the same issues around... Okay.
00:36:48
Speaker
the level of engagement audiences have with the theatrical experience as opposed to the OTT experience. And that's a very much a topic of conversation in all of the industry magazines and discussions that I'm aware of in Hollywood.
00:37:03
Speaker
So I think it's playing out in similar ways across many industries. The Australian film industry is a little unique in the sense that it's really tiny and it is, from what I can tell, a little dormant right now compared to how it has been in previous decades. you sure?
00:37:20
Speaker
There's probably lots of reasons for that. and i'm I'm really not sure. The it ah Australian industry has gone through various waves of activity um in the 70s and 80s and 90s. And at the moment, I think we're going through a phase where Australian films are really struggling to find an audience.
00:37:37
Speaker
at the theatre. And that's very different from the Indian industry where Indians remain avid movie watchers. I'm not sure whether in the same numbers, but Indian audiences come out primarily for Indian films and that's not true of the Australian audience at all.
00:37:52
Speaker
I'm not sure whether that's an OTT thing, though. I think it might just be an Australian in thing. um But I think our ability to watch a thousand movies at home in the comfort of one's lounge room is affecting the cinema globally.
00:38:09
Speaker
That seems pretty indisputable to me. But the way that that's playing out perhaps is a little different by by region based on people's cinema going habits.
00:38:21
Speaker
So just to wrap up, this has been a very interesting conversation.
Future of Cinema with OTT Competition
00:38:25
Speaker
What do you think comes next in terms of streaming platforms, film production in India? What's your prediction?
00:38:34
Speaker
Well, oh frankly, oh it's a million-dollar question, but I guess putting my two penny worth of wisdom, I think largely...
00:38:47
Speaker
The infrastructure in India is so bad. We have pathetic roads. We have, oh you know, the monsoon of three months, which once upon a time, I would say four decades ago, used to be a time to be cherished.
00:39:02
Speaker
And people used to really enjoy the rains. Today, they dread almost every city. And I'm talking about from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. That is from northern, you know, end to the southern tip, Tamil Nadu.
00:39:15
Speaker
People are afraid of going out. Now, obviously, when the power is not in a you know good supply, you have bad roads, you have bad connectivity, you have very bad transport systems.
00:39:30
Speaker
A lot of people I find when I talk to them, they say, why should I go to a cinema hall and waste my time? I spoke about this particular aspect of the tickets being very, very expensive in India.
00:39:44
Speaker
An average person synagogue, if he goes with two kids to a cinema hall, has to spend something like 2,000 rupees, which is a huge amount of money for an average Indian to spend.
00:39:58
Speaker
So I spoke about that at Fikki Frames and I told this in front of very ah respected filmmakers. I said, you must think over it, how you can bring your costs down. Because today, your average synagogue does not consist of an auto driver, a bus driver or a person who's a vendor or a shopkeeper. They just don't go.
00:40:23
Speaker
So you've lost out a huge chunk of audience for yourself. The other people who can actually afford this do not want to go because there is so much of problem going to that particular place, finding a parking for yourself, going through that traffic, which is, you know, how bad the traffic has gone in Bangalore. and The traffic is bad in Calcutta, in Bombay, in Jaipur, in Kanpur, most of the cities.
00:40:50
Speaker
It's a bumper to bumper traffic. Now, if you have to go for a cinema and waste almost about one and a half hours in commuting one side and another one and a half while coming back and then seeing a two and a half hour film and that too at the cost of 2000 or 2500 rupees, you tell me who would like to go. So it's much better.
00:41:08
Speaker
And then on top of it, if they are blaring out those sounds at such high pitch that most people come back with a headache, It's far better that people have these surround systems at home.
00:41:21
Speaker
They can pay about 100 rupees to an Amazon Prime. And all of them, five people or six people can sit down, have their own ah cocktails or their own food and everything in hand and watch it on the big screen of 100 inches of a Samsung TV. Why not?
00:41:41
Speaker
So I think that is something there. And that is where I feel the cinema is losing out.
00:41:49
Speaker
I'm a bit ah bit more of an optimist in terms of what I hope will happen. And i agree with you that the world at the moment is pretty unpredictable and I think a lot of people feel disconcerted and disconnected and it's at moments like this where we need powerful stories we need storytelling yes we need narratives to bring us together completely agree yes yes completely
00:42:20
Speaker
yeah And cinema is, in my view, the most powerful medium for storytelling. And cinema could, certainly has the potential to lift audiences up, to create shared values, to really connect us in that shared experience that you were talking about in the cinema hall, connect us audiences around powerful stories and positive values. I really believe that cinema could have a wonderful role to play.
00:42:48
Speaker
The other day I was watching Dr. Zhivagu and I also watched Sound of Music and a couple of Indian films to just, you know, know get a feel of that old.
00:43:00
Speaker
And you're right. The cinema, the right kind of story will actually uplift the whole society. But my grouse is about the average person not even getting the opportunity to see that film.
00:43:13
Speaker
Unless and until you give that economic shape in terms of the ticket, in terms of the artistry, in terms of the storytelling, the form, unless you ah get out of this entire mindset of only presenting ah button auto a or a or a Kajol, this kind of cinema is not everybody's cup of tea. People have gotten sick of it.
00:43:42
Speaker
They have to see to it that the story is the king. And that's where I told you the writer is the king. The writer has to be respected unless you give them money. The writers are being paid, ah you know, piddly sums, whereas the stars are taking away things for which they cannot even guarantee a week's draw on the box office.
00:44:02
Speaker
So this is where I, so I too am an optimist. I would love that my, you know, whatever I've said does not come true. But I still feel it's really sad that they're just not thinking about the people who are consuming cinema as their own people whom would they would like to share and communicate rather than just using them as consumers.
00:44:26
Speaker
So bread has a consumer and an eatable has a consumer, a restaurant has a consumer. But if you treat the cinema also, the people who are going to the cinema hall as the same consumer, then I think you're badly letting them down.
00:44:42
Speaker
It is something which is very, very humane that has to be connecting to their soul, to their heart. And those good cinema, when you make, you have to make it accessible to everyone.
00:44:53
Speaker
If those people can come and see that cinema, then I think nothing like it. And of course, it will flourish. Well, let's hope that is the way that it happens. Thank you. yeah Very interesting conversation today.
00:45:08
Speaker
We'll see what happens. so Thank you for your time, Deepak. It was very enjoyable. Thank you for your time. You've been listening to Conversing Cinema with Deepak Mahan and me, Julian Caldery.
00:45:18
Speaker
We'd love to hear from you. If you have any questions or comments, you can email us at podcast at conversingcinema.in.
00:45:28
Speaker
Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review or rating, and most importantly, share us with your friends. Conversing Cinema is produced and edited by Julianne Caldry and Deepak Mahan.
00:45:39
Speaker
Music is by Deepak Mahan. See you next time.