Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Crossroads Career Podcast, a show where we help you hear God calling, get the right job, and maximize your potential through inspiring stories of individuals and professionals who've experienced a crossroads in their career.
Speaker: Welcome back to Crossroads Career Podcast. My name is Tim and Hannah is with me in the studio. Today we get to talk to Kirk Patterson. ah Kirk is a veteran of ours from the U.S. military.
Speaker: Kirk Thanks for coming to the program and love to hear about your experience. What have you been up to in the past and how have you gotten to where you're at now? So I'm from California and I thought I'd never leave California.
Speaker: Now I don't think I'll ever go back. But anyway, I grew up or not grew up, but I went to high school in California and but junior high and high school in California and then college.
Speaker: And when I left, I'm a graduate of Stanford University. I had the you know world right at my fingertips. And I was successful right away in doing things that I wanted to do. And I ah went on Wall Street, ah even though I was in l LA, I was doing it with a three-hour time zone, had tremendous success. And then A confluence of things occurred.
Speaker: And one was, I just was not a very likable person because i the arrogance was, you know it didn't matter if I was likable or relatable, I could just do the job.
Speaker: But at the same time, ah confluence of things occurred. My dad ah passed away suddenly. It was six months after, ah six months before Angela and I married.
Speaker: And I'll never forget it. Right after I came back from his funeral, I'll never forget his name. his His name was Mike Noble, who was the branch manager at the ah investment firm I was working for. And I was the number two person in that branch, but he walked in, he says, you know, you're very good at what you do.
Speaker: I think that you'll have great success. It's just not here because I don't like you and you're done. And I thought, okay, I just come back from my dad's funeral what have you. But I thought, Hey,
Speaker: I'll walk across the street. Six months later, i' had walked across several streets and there were people who I interviewed with who actually questioned whether I even attended Stanford University.
Speaker: They actually called the bursar to confirm that I was a graduate while I was sitting in the chair. And it was one of those, wait a minute, what's going on here?
Speaker: i called several different people. ah i had a job. I don't know if you know the name, but his name was, ah his name is Michael Milken.
Speaker: He was the junk bond king of LA at the time. I was going to work for him. And right when I was about to think I was getting out of that Valley, he was indicted. Oh my. yeah He actually went to prison.
Speaker: Hmm. and had to pay a fine. So all of these things were occurring and I'm thinking, am I ever going to get out of this? And I remember all of these different interviews where the doors were slamming shut in California.
Speaker: And finally, a friend of mine ah that I went to school with suggested that I call Atlanta and speak to this guy who was ah hiring for IBM. And I'm thinking, well, that's a career change.
Speaker: When I called him, He said, wow, you sound great, but we're only bringing on new hires. You have experience. And I said, well, and this is what changed my fortunes. I said, well, you can help me.
Speaker: You just can't hire me, but you can help me. ah You must know someone who can use my skill set or whatever. At that point, I hung up the phone and I drove 30 minutes or 45 minutes to pick up Angela from her job.
Speaker: We came back at that time. We were married and we came back. And by the time I got back, there was a ah message, you know, you're too young to remember this, but people used to have machines where they were recording.
Speaker: They're called messages machines. And so I played it and he said, hey, we want to fly you out there. I fly you out here to talk to you. I'm thinking, talk to me about what?
Speaker: I don't forget. Angela said, don't go out there and accept the job on the spot. Tell them you have to speak to me first. I said, after six months of being in the wilderness, of having doors slammed in my face, people questioning whether I had an actually gone to school, people wondering whether I was even fit for a job, the lowest entry level job.
Speaker: I thought it's unlikely that I would fly out to IBM, speak to a vice president, get a job offer on the spot, especially after he told me they weren't hiring professional hires. They're only ah bringing on new hires. Well, of course, Angela was right.
Speaker: I flew out there. It was 30 minutes. He had offered me the job and I had told him I can't accept it because I promised my wife I would not. I look back on that experience and every time I come across someone who is, I call it that wilderness spirit where you're thinking, i don't know where I'm going. I don't know yeah whether I will ever see water again, whether I will see civilization again.
Speaker: It looks that way because the right circumstances haven't come together for you to see clearly where it is you could go. But it was an experience that just truly transformed how I looked at my walk of faith.
Speaker: how I looked at myself and how I looked at what I could control. And the biggest thing I had to let go of, there were so many things I could not control that I thought I could and I couldn't.
Speaker: And once I let go of that, then the differing opportunities that came my way look different to me because I wasn't trying to control them. I was just trying to discern whether they were the appropriate opportunity for me or whether I should look elsewhere.
Speaker: I don't know if that helps. Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I think I was going to say, I think, you know, the control thing is a huge issue, right? i mean control, everybody wants control. Everybody wants to control the narrative, the situation, their life.
Speaker: And then when they find themselves out of control, or not in control, a then they usually tend to, in the job world, go right to fear.
Speaker: And then fear cripples them. And then they they're basically dead in the water. yeah They really can't accomplish much. yeah They wake up Monday mornings and go right back to bed. They're not talking to their spouse. They're not they're not being kind of the kids.
Speaker: It just trickles down into everything, right? But for you, it sounds like that was a big deal. Well, fear is is the operative word because you're thinking, what if I never get another job?
Speaker: What if I never find ah fulfillment in the job that I do get? What if I'm consigned to doing something I hate or something that I'm ill-equipped to do for the rest of my life?
Speaker: What if I am not able to provide for my family? What if I'm not able to provide for myself? All of these things, that fear, and you use the word crippled, it does cripple you. It it could, it capacitates you to the point where you're sitting there thinking, i don't even want to pick up the phone anymore. Cause I've had rejection for so long. Now, in my case, if you're in the investment world, rejection 98% you experience.
Speaker: So if you can't deal with rejection, you can't operate in that world. But there are I know there are people who rejection, just one rejection, can just knock them for a loop.
Speaker: That wasn't my issue. My issue was, and this was the arrogance again, how are you going to reject me when you haven't had the experience, the intellect, or anything like that? And I had to let go of that.
Speaker: I had to let go of the I'm superior to you because of my education, because of my experience, or because of my talent, I had to let go of the because I have these tools, I could control who will accept me and who can't.
Speaker: Well, when you're looking for a job, i don't care what your experience is, what your tools are, what your education is. The person who's offering you the job has all the leverage. They could be a janitor that has been raised to the level of executive vice president.
Speaker: They could have had, and in some cases, this was the case, a high school education. does It doesn't matter that they never went to an Ivy league institution or a well thought of institution.
Speaker: The fact is they're sitting across that desk and they have the leverage if they have the job to offer you. And so again, it is a humbling experience when you recognize that you have no control over Whether they say yes or no, what you can do is present yourself in the best way possible, but it's still up to them to say yes or no.
Speaker: And once you recognize that, then you've got to let go of the, I'm going to go in here and force them to hire me. I'm going to go in here and wow their socks off. That's the wrong approach, in my opinion, is the approach of I'm going to go in here and I'm going to respond and as best I can to the ubiquitous.
Speaker: Tell me about yourself. And it's up to their understanding of how I relate as to whether we're a good fit, whether that algorithm is a perfect match.
Speaker: Because other than that, the only thing you can control is how you present yourself to others in relationships, professionally, recreationally. After that, it is algorithmic exercise as to whether there's a love match or even um ah possible match there.
Speaker: Absolutely. Well, and you put a lot of words to people's real experience because so many of us experience unemployment. And you've shared with us before just a metaphor for what that really felt like for you.
Speaker: But how would you describe that experience that you just shared with us, like mentally um going through a period of unemployment? it the The first thing that I had to get over was the shame that comes from I had ah really good career, a high-paying career.
Speaker: And once I got past the, oh, I can walk across the street and get another job and realize I couldn't, then the shame came in. How did I screw that up?
Speaker: i Screw up a job that paid that well just because I was arrogant or because I was not very nice, not very relatable.
Speaker: And you say, oh what I could do, what I would do differently if why I'd go back. And you get into this spiral of going back. to What would I, what could I have done? What should I have done?
Speaker: And the shame and guilt of having screwed something that was good up. And that is just the the mindset that most people find themselves doing instead of the, okay, what comes next? what That was a lesson learned, but how do I apply it going forward?
Speaker: In what ways will I apply it going forward? Because we can get going- It should have, it should have, it would have, it right? Yes, absolutely. mean, and there's so much time and effort spent. And then you have to, again, get over the shame of, man, how could I have been so clumsy and and just not- like grasp what how good I had it.
Speaker: And then once you get past the shame, then, and you use this word Tim, the fear, what if I never get that opportunity again? Have I screwed up the one chance that I had?
Speaker: yeah hi yeah you know How many opportunities do you get in a lifetime? And I got a golden ticket and I ripped it up. And so that fear comes, I'll never get that again. It'll never come my way again.
Speaker: And I would remember very clearly, I was at a five-star basketball camp when I was in high school and there was a coach. His name was Tim Wettlick and he was the assistant to Bob Knight at the University of Indiana.
Speaker: And he said something at that camp that as a 16-year-old stayed with me forever. He says, you guys are looking around and you're seeing all these guys on television, reading about them in the papers.
Speaker: um By the way, for you youngins, those are things that um that are on pulpwood that they used to print out. and Yeah, they print them. Yeah. Yeah. With ink and you would actually have have it in your hand. But anyway, ah seen one. very And he thinks, and you're looking at it and you're thinking, oh, that guy's lucky. He got a good break or whatever.
Speaker: And he says, I'm going to give you a definition of luck that I want you to hold on to for the rest of your life. And by the way, I can't do his accent, but he was a good old boy from Mississippi. So he had this drawl.
Speaker: And Tim Wettlick said, you know, he said, luck is nothing more than preparation, meeting opportunity. He said, and for the lucky guys, they're always prepared when the opportunity comes.
Speaker: Yeah. And so where when you find yourself in that wilderness, when you find yourself in that valley, when you find yourself wondering if I will ever get another job or what have you,
Speaker: that's the time you should be preparing. Because if it were to show up tomorrow, what would you do? Yeah, what would you do? Well, yeah and a follow-up to that would be, you know, you you talked about the emotional side, the mental side of this time, right, that you had.
Speaker: Then let's dive into the spiritual side of this. you know, where did God specifically meet you? Did he wake you up in the middle of the night? Did you have a dream? You know, like, did you see something written in the sky?
Speaker: you know, tell us a little more about that. Well, spiritually, it was after ah I was sitting in that office where this was an interview, by the way, I was sitting in the office and the person, of the lady that was interviewing me had already called security because she was she was accusing me of fraud of saying that I had attended Stanford and And so I had actually, i actually, while I was sitting there and security is sitting, standing behind me, I had to dial the bursar's office at Stanford university, which I knew by heart and, you know, and I dialed it.
Speaker: And fortunately a young lady came on who actually knew me. And I said, this is Kirk. I'm sitting here in this office. And because I had said Stanford doesn't have a business degree and she,
Speaker: incredulously said, of course, Stanford has a business degree. It's Stanford. No, they don't have a business degree. They have schools of economics. We can get an economics degree, but there is no such thing as a business degree at Stanford. Yes, you can get an MBA and in grad school, but you don't get an undergraduate business degree. And at that point, she had called security and says, we're going to get this straight right now. And so I had to call bursar's office and The lady said, yes, you know, Kirk Patterson is a graduate in good standing, blah, blah, blah, this and any other.
Speaker: And I'll never forget. So with that, I knew obviously I wasn't getting the job. So I'm being escorted out of the building by security. And I'll never forget. it was the Holy Spirit saying, are you done relying on your credentials?
Speaker: Oh, wow. What have your credentials gotten you right now? I'm being escorted out of a building by security after I'd been relying on my credentials that they did not believe that they would not accept.
Speaker: And even after it had been verified, I'm still being escorted out of the building with security. And so it was at that point, the Holy spirit was saying it is not by your might, not by your will, not by your operation will these things happen.
Speaker: And so was that point that I recognized that I was relying and depending on the wrong thing. I was um looking at what I had done to say, i'm going that's going to get me out of this valley. And God was saying, no, not really.
Speaker: And so I was, that's the, this is the other thing that when when you, when you've gone from the the arrogance to the fear, Then it gets to the depression of, oh my gosh, this is the way it's always gonna be.
Speaker: And it's just a, it's when it's when God says, okay, are you done doing your thing? Now will you watch me my thing?
Speaker: well And that's when I got the call from my friend and I said, that IBM, that's computers. I'm not a computer guy. this And he goes, no, no, no, this is in the business side.
Speaker: I think you'd be a ah ah good candidate. And so when he said, when ah the vice president said, we're only doing new hires, I said, that's okay because the Holy spirit had already given me, I have opened doors for you that no one can shut. And I've closed doors for you. No one can open.
Speaker: So when I said, look, I just accepted the fact that this isn't a door for me. So, but you, Mr. Executive Vice President can find or introduce me to someone for whom a door will open.
Speaker: And i'll I spoke with this gentleman, he became a mentor of mine. He said he had never had someone ah respond to rejection in that way.
Speaker: And I can say the only way, the only reason why I responded to that rejection, oh, we're not bringing on professional hires, we're only bringing on new hires, was because the Holy Spirit had prepared my heart for, look, once you're done with your credential thing, your education thing, your experience thing, your expertise thing,
Speaker: then watch me do my work and you let go of that. Oh, because I can't control it or manipulate it, it can't happen, but rather I'm going to watch God do his thing.
Speaker: And at that point I'm an interested observer, but I'm no longer the referee, the player, the coach, I'm an interested observer.
Speaker: And I'm, my mother-in-law has this expression every time something of note happens, that seems to be from left field or no one can see coming.
Speaker: And it's one I lean on all the time and it's look at God. And so I'm looking at God do his thing and I'm no longer considering myself a partner with him, a subcontractor to him or even a general contractor to him.
Speaker: I'm watching him do his thing and say, okay, Lord, just let me know when to jump and I'll jump. That's far different than let me put this in place. Let me manipulate this. Let me align this up.
Speaker: And then God, you come in afterward and bless it. That's what had been happening. Now I'm waiting patiently. And as they say, they that wait up in the Lord shall renew their strength. That's what those, those scriptures now have more meaning to me having been in that employment Valley, that wilderness than they ever have, than they ever would have had I not gone through that.
Speaker: Thank you for sharing because that's just so practical and so powerful to hear God meet you in a real way and in a difficult and probably traumatic experience and seeing him completely meet you and care for you and change your mindset and help you let go of what you needed to, but truly care for you and lead you in a new way. I love what you said of like, all right, watch me instead. I'm like, yes, like that's so powerful. And so thank you for sharing because that's something that we need to hear and can really be an encouragement for others. So thank you.
Speaker: so you i think I think scripture comes alive, at least scripture has come alive for me when I'm at those naders where in those valleys where I'm thinking, where is this going? How am I going to get out of that?
Speaker: When you look at Matthew 6, 19 through 34, where Christ is talking about how, you know, we shouldn't be anxious for anything and look at the lilies of the field and the birds of the air. Well,
Speaker: You could read past that if you've had all of your needs met, if you're living in a life of comfort, if you have not experienced any employment trauma. But I looked at him I thought, he's talking to people for whom daily existence was subsistence existence.
Speaker: They had no closets, they had no refrigerators, they had no three bedroom homes with basements and and attics where they could store extra things.
Speaker: Every day was, a how am I going to meet my needs today? And yet, here he is saying to these folks, don't concern yourself with that, which I could see that's a very hard message, but that's why it's a very hard message when you're talking to people who are unemployed or if you've been unemployed and someone's talking to you and they say, God's got it under control. Well, that's a very hard message when you're subsistence living.
Speaker: It's very hard when you've been out of work for six months. It's very hard when all the doors have been shut. And what I have found, the best thing that we can do as believers is not to lecture them and not to try to comfort them with words, but just be there.
Speaker: And if they ask you a question, you answer it. But sit next to them. There's something to the Jewish um right of sitting Shiva.
Speaker: You're sitting next to someone and you're not there to tell them all about how God's going to make this terrible exist, this tragedy into something good. You're just sitting there in the event they have a question, in the event they need a shoulder, in the event They just need to confirm something.
Speaker: But you're sitting there knowing, excuse me, letting them know that they're not alone, that you're you're you're living out one of God's names, which is Jehovah Shema. I am the Lord God. I am there.
Speaker: He is there through us not to show them, hey, you could have done this differently. I told you about that. No, you're just sitting there letting them know that whatever it is you're enduring, how you're enduring it, I'm sitting here with you so that you're not alone.
Speaker: and and And at any point, if you have a question or response or you just need a ah handheld, ah shoulder to cry on, that's what I'm there for.
Speaker: Well, Kirk, thank you again as we're going to wrap up here. Wanted to get some practical advice from you. You know, if if you're listening to this podcast and you've been out of ah of work for six months, right? you're you're You've gone past the honeymoon phase, the one to three months, right? Now now you're on the six to nine to 12 month period. yeah what would be What would be maybe two things that you could give advice to those people that are in the midst of that right now?
Speaker: Well, one I've already touched on, and that is prepare. If you're waiting until the opportunities in front of you say, oh, now I've got to get my resume together or I've got to get this certificate or I've got to do this or whatever that is.
Speaker: If you wait until then, you're behind the curve. good Again, that valley, maybe you're to be doing something in that valley. gathering lilies, whatever it is, but preparing yourself for the trek that's about to come. And we know that when you're in the valley, when you go up the the mountainside, you're gonna need a good pair of shoes, you're gonna need a good walking stick, whatever it is to traverse that passageway to get back to the mountaintop.
Speaker: Whoa. The same thing is when you're out of work, when you are between jobs, you need to be preparing yourself. And that preparation has is, look, do you have any distractions?
Speaker: Do you have anything? oh you know, i'll do I'll have to do that after work. Well, there is no work. Or, you know, I've got to do that before I go to work. No, one there is no work.
Speaker: So this is the time to prepare. And the second one is you prepare once you've looked at and said, this is a reset for me. What is the goal that I'm preparing for? What is going to make me happy? i I look back and I made a lot of money on Wall Street, but I was not happy.
Speaker: My day, because of where i was on the West Coast, started at 4.30. It ended at midnight because I started with the East Coast and I ended with the West Coast.
Speaker: So I was making money, but I was not happy. And I had to ask myself, is that the life I want? Is that how I want to spend my formative years as a young husband and hopefully eventually a father?
Speaker: So that the two things I would say is you prepare, but you prepare for the goal that is eventually going to make you happy. The things that will give you fulfillment, joy, because this reset It's the perfect time to say, if I had a wand and I was king for a day, what kind of career would I want?
Speaker: What kind of experiences would I want? what do i How do I want to spend my time? That's when you give thought to that because you have no other distractions. You have nothing to interfere with the hey, let me sit down and map this out.
Speaker: Again, this isn't you trying to make it happen. This is you trying to design it so that you recognize it when you see it. And just as importantly, you'll recognize that which isn't that.
Speaker: You're saying, ah, yeah, that's a lot of money, but that's not what I want to do because we can fall into, oh, well, I've been out of work for six to nine months. So that job, that's what I want or that's what I need right now because it's money.
Speaker: But if you're sitting down and you're in that extended period, you prepare yourself for the goal that you want to meet. whether it's getting a certificate, whether it's just doing your own research, whether it's preparing your mind, your body, getting in shape, whatever that is.
Speaker: But that goal has to be, this is how I know that I'm on the right track because this job or this career or this offer will have these three things or these five things.
Speaker: If you don't spend your time, this extended time when you're not distracted by an everyday working job, to do that, then I'm afraid you won't you won't recognize the opportunity when it comes.
Speaker: And that to me is a bigger tragedy than having lost a job or been out of work for six to nine months is that you don't recognize the opportunities when they show up. And if you did recognize them, the second tragedy is you're not prepared for it.
Speaker: So you use this time to do that. And it may seem as though you're you're you're doing something that may never come, but I've never ever found myself preparing for something and not have it pay off.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much, Kirk, because using that time as a time to not only prepare, but have reflecting time and that being preparation, even if it turns out to be preparing for something different than you had in mind. I love that you said it is worth it.
Speaker: And we just want to encourage you listeners that if you need somebody to have a sounding board to reflect with, to have somebody who maybe has knowledge or experience a little bit beyond or just, you are at the end of your rope and you need someone to talk to Crossroads, we have guides that are available for you that you can jump on a free call and tell them about your situation and actively think through that and do exactly what Kirk just said with someone who is ready to help you and walk alongside you and share that you're not alone, but also um really listen and and help you develop next steps if you're feeling stuck.
Speaker: Well, can I to interject something also is that many of us have been through that. And then once we get through it or to the other side, it becomes a distant memory. We need to have eyes and ears for those who are enduring it now.
Speaker: And we need to be prepared and willing and able to sit Shiva with them, not to coach them, not to lecture them, not to guide them, but just sit Shiva with them.
Speaker: so that they know that they're not alone. And I think that can be a comfort that everyone can provide without having any expertise in their field, any expertise, ah even if you've not had a prolonged unemployment period or misemployment period, being able to sit next to someone or sit chivalry with someone who isn't doing that can be comfort enough. And I think that's an often overlooked capacity that we all have, but we all too seldom employ.
Speaker: So I would encourage all of us, whether you've been through it and you've been, you're now on the other side, have never been through it, but have seen loved ones endure it. And you can't even imagine being through it. You can, I think, imagine yourself sitting shiver with someone who is enduring it and letting them guide the conversations and the reactions.
Speaker: Well, that is the perfect last word. So we're going to end it there. And we hope that this was an encouragement and an equipping for you wherever you are in your journey. Thank you for joining us. And Kirk, thank you for sharing your story.
Speaker: Oh, you're quite welcome. Looking for guidance in your career? Our Crossroads guides are ready to help. Set up a complimentary call now by visiting our website, crossroadscareer.org.
Speaker: Thanks for listening.
