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Full Free Monthly Episode - Italy Set Unbeaten Record, Draw Versus Switzerland (Ep. 150)
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The first episode of every month of The Italian Football is free to listen to for all. In today's episode Carlo and Nima discuss Italy's record-setting 36-match unbeaten run following their draw against Switzerland.
To listen to this & all other full episodes of The Italian Football Podcast, go to Patreon.com/TIFP to become a Patron for only $2.99 USD per month (excluding VAT).
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Transcript
Introduction to the Italian Football Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast with John Solano, Carlo Garganese and Nima Tuvali.
Italy's Record-Breaking Unbeaten Run: Bittersweet Success?
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the Italian football podcast. I'm Carla Garganese. And here we are with the first international break of the season. The season's only just started and the dreaded international window is with us. Nima is with me. So, Italy, world record. World record unbeaten run.
Tactical and Mental Struggles Against Bulgaria
00:00:49
Speaker
In a way, a little bit,
00:00:52
Speaker
bittersweet in that we can't, feels like we can't really celebrate it. But, you know, when we take a step back, 36 games unbeaten, unbeaten since September 2018. I mean, this is, this is a historic achievement. I mean, this is just, this is something that we should be very proud of. Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's, it is a historic achievement and it is also bittersweet because you look at the games against Switzerland and Bulgaria and it's six, it's four points that Italy threw away.
00:01:22
Speaker
And they threw it away. The game against Bulgaria, to me, was a tactical issue as well as a mental issue. When Italy win tournaments and they have these, you know, they do laps of honor before the game starts, that's never a good thing because you're also supposed to perform on the day. And that's exactly what happened. I remember after they won the World Cup in 2006 and Canavaro was doing laps of honor with the World Cup trophy in Naples and the stadium. And of course, they dropped points.
00:01:50
Speaker
And against Bulgaria, although they played well and they created, had the possession for 70, 80% of the time, they still lacked. And I mean, Bulgaria basically played with, you know, with Deep defending like two blocks of five players each, completely the shrinking space. And we know, we saw that in the Euros. You can't have Georgina and Varati in those situations because you lack dynamism in midfield.
World Cup Qualification Challenges
00:02:16
Speaker
He should have started with Locatelli.
00:02:18
Speaker
um and against Switzerland I think he should have been the other way around because Switzerland are a much more dynamic team um and he should have started with with he should have played with Rati instead but this is this is what Mancini does I mean he is a great coach I I do rate him and I think he you know I was very supportive of when he was appointed but this is his ceiling and that's exactly he makes weird substitutions he gets simple things wrong he he's he needs to rely on an individual brilliance more and and I think this is an Italian national team that
00:02:49
Speaker
doesn't need to rely on individual brilliance to resolve it if you have a coach that can give you the advantage and put you in the position to take points. I'm concerned about Italy, I really am, because this World Cup qualifiers is going to be difficult.
00:03:06
Speaker
and Switzerland have two games. I mean, Italy are playing Lithuania or is it Northern Ireland they play now? I can't remember. Yeah, it's Lithuania. Yeah, they're playing that. They're playing them. They have to win that game. There's no ifs, ands, or buts anymore. They have to win that game. They have to win all three. They have to win all three games now. Yeah, and to win the group. They have to beat, they have to, you know, because I don't think Switzerland will drop points against the other teams in the group. I don't think the other teams may be against Bulgaria if they defend as deep as needed against Italy.
00:03:35
Speaker
I think if they're going to drop points, it will be on Wednesday for Switzerland. The reason for that is they're absolutely decimated at the moment, which is another reason why it was bad that Italy didn't beat them. They had Shaqiri out, Jacque out, Froiler was suspended, the Embolo, the striker, he was out, Mbabu was out, somebody else that I'm forgetting, they had luck.
00:04:00
Speaker
eight players that they'd called up that all had to withdraw, that had been called up in the initial squad. You know, they're, they're decimated. Froiler, I think will be back. They'd also be tired because it was a grueling game for them against Italy attacking them for the whole, for the whole match and Northern Islander at home. I think if they're going to drop points, it will be.
00:04:18
Speaker
it will be on Wednesday. If they win that, then I think absolutely Italy have to win. Yeah. All their matches. Including Switzerland. Yeah. Switzerland. Yeah. Switzerland. Which they play. There is, you know, there is, there is cause for concern, but I mean, Italy should.
Potential Playoff Opponents: Spain and Portugal
00:04:34
Speaker
They have to be careful. They have to be careful because if it goes to a playoff, that is a huge, huge gamble, a huge, huge risk because
00:04:44
Speaker
it's the playoffs now you have to win two one-off matches to qualify from the playoffs now it's a semi-final and a final and only three teams qualify this there's three routes and depending on the draw it's done I think it's done based on the rankings from this qualifying phase in terms of you know who's got the most points best goal difference so you know it's very possible that you could end up meeting
00:05:07
Speaker
Anyone. It's not done on ranking, world ranking. That's what I'm worried about. And I'm also worried about Portugal. Because as things stand today, I think Spain are going to finish second. I don't think Sweden screwed this up. They look far too. Anyone who watched, I think we're going to get to that as well. I mean, why Dejan Kunuszewski is not starting for Juventus is Allegri needs to sort himself out. He was outstanding against Spain. He was the man of the match by a mile.
00:05:35
Speaker
But having said that, I don't think Sweden are going to screw this up. I think Sweden are pretty much going to go through cleanly through that group. So Spain will finish second and then France, they'll win that group. I'm looking at the others. It's Finland.
Post-Tournament Struggles: Historical Patterns
00:05:55
Speaker
Holland. Yeah, but I don't think so. I think Holland will go through that. I think it's going to be decided when they play Turkey.
00:06:00
Speaker
at home and I think I expect them to win that game because they have they don't have it's not just there's no way there's there's no way I mean it could happen you know it could for me for me it's more an issue of Croatia you know Croatia are difficult side they can cause you trouble I think Germany after demolishing Armenia 6-0 yesterday are in another now they found now they found themselves their feet
00:06:29
Speaker
But they're one-off matches anything can happen in one of my children that's what I mean I just I just wanna I just wanna play Spain and I know that if Italy finished second They're going to end up playing Spain and and this is something that is annoys me because I think this is you know, you're throwing away It's unnecessary You know two goalless draws
00:06:49
Speaker
when you probably should have at least won at least one of those games annoys me and now they're playing Lithuania at home um you know and then they don't the next international break is the nation's league and then it's it's it's in it's in November where they first play Switzerland and then Northern Ireland away so I'm a bit concerned yes I am a bit concerned
Mancini's Loyalty vs. Integration of Young Talents
00:07:12
Speaker
What has what has gone wrong for Italy in these in these part in these past two games because I think you've mentioned one of the reasons that this is something that happens historically to Italy after they win tournaments that you mentioned 2006 and they drew with Lithuania actually straight off that tour and then they lost 3-1 in Paris to France in Paris. I was at that game and
00:07:34
Speaker
They faced an uphill struggle to qualify from that and they were very, very much at risk of going out of that group. I remember they had to go to Scotland. They won that game. And it was won all. It was won all.
00:07:50
Speaker
pouring down with rain and Scotland really had them on the ropes. It was really in the knife edge and then Panucci scored in the last minute. Yeah, but I remember that game, Scotland scored an equaliser that was offside, Italy scored 2-0, which was not offside and called for offside. Yeah, it was still a tight game. Yeah, it was still a tight game, absolutely. It was one of those games that could have...
Questionable Tactical Decisions and Substitutions
00:08:12
Speaker
They took the gamble, even the 1982 World Cup, Italy went over a year, nearly a year and a half after winning the 1982 World Cup without winning another game. This Italian thing of one's glory to Rome, you take these laps.
00:08:28
Speaker
This is where I want Mancini to learn from those two tournaments and that is that he needs to be ruthless with these Euro winners. Yes, most of them you stay with them. There's a great spine there but there are some players and we saw his first squad
00:08:47
Speaker
for this calendar, he called up every single player from the Euros for the exception of Spin at Solar because Spin at Solar was injured. This was basically Mancini thanking those from the Euros for winning the Euros, basically. That's why he called up every single one of them.
00:09:03
Speaker
And there are a couple of players in particular that I think shouldn't be in the Italy set up for sure anymore. And that's Florenti who made the big mistake for Bulgaria's equalizer. And Milan are not even playing him at right back, by the way. They've been playing him at right as a right winger. He can't play in a back four. Alessandro Florenti cannot play in a back four. He's a wing back at best.
00:09:27
Speaker
Like, that's what he does. Oh, Tolle. Tolle. Tolle as well. I mean, Tolle. And this will bring me on to my second point. Mancini. Mancini. I mean, Mancini can lose every single game now for Italy for the rest of his career. It doesn't matter to me anymore. The guy will be a legend. And, you know, I'd rather I'll always say I'd rather Italy
00:09:48
Speaker
failed to qualify for two world cups in a row but win the euros in the middle then then have have three semi-final appearances at the end of the day yeah and win nothing you know so end of the day he can do whatever he wants but i think if there if there is one weakness that mancini has always been substitutions is definitely a substitution and we've seen that in these two games i mean bringing on toloy against a vulgarity team that had 10 men in their penalty area
00:10:15
Speaker
I mean, what, what was that about? I mean, what, what, what is Toloy going to do in a game like that? I mean, he drove me insane when we went into, we're chasing the game goal down and he brings off Julio Cruz for Olivier Daku. Like that's, that's the classic Manchini you're driving me insane substitution. Um, and it's, he, he does this and he did it in the euros as well. Um, sometimes he got it right. Sometimes most times he gets it wrong. His substitutions are weird.
00:10:42
Speaker
But I also think it wasn't just a substitution, it was a tactics.
00:10:47
Speaker
Staying on the substitutions, both of these two games, once he made the attacking changes in the second half, like midway through the second half, Italy just completely didn't create anything in both games for the last quarter of the match. They just completely lost all their rhythm and their attacking impetus. That happened in the first game,
00:11:11
Speaker
against bulgaria and it happened again on on sunday night as well and i don't understand everyone's calling out for zanyala to be false nine i was the first person by the way to call for him to be false nine i remember everyone laughing at me saying no zanyala can't be false and i'm not saying this two years ago but for me he was the answer potentially the answer to their problems but
00:11:31
Speaker
And I think in the long term, hopefully he can be. But I don't understand why. Zaniolo shouldn't even be in this. Well, if he was to put him in the Italy squad for this, that's fine. Let him get to know the squad again, bed him in. But he shouldn't have played in such a crucial game against Switzerland. Come on, he's not ready. The guy has played a few games in 18 months after two cruciate ligaments. He's clearly not sharp enough or got his rhythm to be at this level. It's fine against...
00:11:59
Speaker
Salen Itana and teams in the conference league. But to bring him on with 25 minutes to go in a game where you need to win against Switzerland. And he was way off it. He was awful when he come on Zanyo. It was totally off the pace. And to be sort of experimenting, I mean, he switched them around in a false nine position in a game like this.
Penalty Performance Concerns
00:12:21
Speaker
I mean, that's just
00:12:21
Speaker
For me, the line-up should have been different. He should have started with a team he did against Switzerland, against Bulgaria and the other way around against Switzerland. For me, Berardi is on the bench against Switzerland where he will have space because Switzerland are a much more progressive team.
00:12:43
Speaker
I mean, why would you, you know, I think he also should start regardless. But I mean, it would have been better to have Berardi and Signia and Immobula start against Bulgaria together and have Locatelli, who's a much more dynamic player in midfield, and then have these other guys in the game against Switzerland where they would have had more space to play. And this is what frustrates me. It's just unnecessary. And we have to talk about this penalty.
00:13:11
Speaker
i'm exhausted just before sorry just before we get to the penalty though because i've got i've put a segment on that about giorgino but with the elephant the big elephant in the room is is that we can discuss about the the substitutions we can discuss about his initial tactics being wrong about them taking things easy but at the end of the day italy completely dominated these two matches they had
00:13:35
Speaker
Ridiculous number of shots in both games ridiculous number of chances one-on-one said they're adding clean through from the halfway line in more be less sitters in both games in senior big chances Huge huge huge opportunities, but they didn't take them too wasteful
Immobile as Striker: Suitability and Alternatives?
00:14:14
Speaker
the attack is still
00:14:23
Speaker
is holding it back and it is a problem and especially the number nine position and I don't care. I know. Yeah, but they can't listen. It's obvious. You can't defend. You can't you can't defend anymore. I mean, I mean, I've never had any doubt about I've been saying it for four years. It's not working. It's really not working and whether or not the
00:14:41
Speaker
he's just not good enough. No, I don't know. You can't say, you can't say it's tactical because he scores. Yeah, but he scores. He's fine when he scores and an obscene amount of goals throughout his career when he plays in a front two or he has someone next to him.
00:14:57
Speaker
but he's not, but he's not a sole prima punta in a 4-3-3, never has been, he doesn't have those traits, he cannot, you know, he's not, he gets, he gets lost because he's not a physical presence in the air in terms of, you know, holding up the ball like a Lukaku or a Holland, he doesn't have that and that's what you need to have in a 4-3-3. Bellotti isn't a better player, he's just better suited
00:15:23
Speaker
I know, but Antonio Conte played with two men up front. The Ventura played with two men up front. He was awful with Ventura. And okay, you can blame Ventura. He was a complete clown, but he still played. He still played in a two men up front. I mean, for me, he just, he is not at that level. He's a very good player. He's at Lazio's level. He's a superstar for Lazio in that size upon.
00:15:43
Speaker
But when you move to a higher level, some players have got it. Some players haven't. It's as simple as that. And he just doesn't have it. When the push came to shove, he was fine in the group stages of the Euros. As soon as it came to the... They started playing the tougher teams and the knockouts and the bigger matches and the bigger pressure, Imoble did not have it. So this isn't personal against Imoble. It's clear as day. And last year fans just have to accept that.
00:16:10
Speaker
stop giving excuses. Yes, you lovely mob. He's a legend for your club. He hasn't got it. He hasn't. You know, so and but the problem is, in a weird way, I still think he's probably the best option they've got in the number nine, in the number nine role, which is the crazy thing. And that is the problem that Italy have in attack. Because I don't know who else I would put there. Raspadori. I think Raspadori is the way to go.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's the one who links up the best in that system. I don't think he's the best player to play in that role, but I think as a number nine and given the traits he has, his hard working, his finishing is great. His technique might lack a little bit technically, but in terms of holding up the ball, his grittiness, that's what you need in that role.
00:16:59
Speaker
Again, again, you look at the Euros, you look at his Rami, he scored about two goals. But that's not his role. He's not supposed to score goals for Italy, he's supposed to create space for the others. And when he mobilized on there, he's invisible, because especially against Bulgaria, you saw that completely invisible.
00:17:19
Speaker
The lotty was good in the Austria game at the Euros. He didn't start any of the games. He didn't start, but he was poor in all the other matches, you know. So, I mean, he didn't score in the Euros. He's way off the level needed as well. I think it's about traits about getting, you know, putting position players into the right positions. And to me, for me, Insinia and Kiesa are the ones that are supposed to score the goals in this team.
00:17:45
Speaker
And how do I get them into the positions to score goals? Well, you need a gritty number nine who does what he does in that number nine role and fights and can hold up the ball and can link up. I mean, we've seen what Sarri is trying to do with Immobulate Lazio. And I think it's, you know, will he succeed? Well, we'll have to wait and see if he can. But
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I'm just saying that we need more time to see something there. But yeah, I just I've never bought that the whole 433.
00:18:25
Speaker
thing at all. I agree that he's better in the system where he's got attacking midfielders supporting him and players behind him, but I've never bought the excuse that the reason why he plays bad for Italy is to the 4-3-3. I just think it's an ability thing. Simple as that. I think that's the primary reason. I mean, it might not help, but we'll see at Lazio this season how many goals he will score in a 4-3-3, and I think that will destroy that myth. Well, I think it's also got to do... I don't think it's a myth. I think it's more got to do with the fact that how they play
00:18:55
Speaker
How many played for Pescara at the beginning of this year? That wasn't a 4-3-3, that was a Zeman 3-2-5. Did you see them play the way they overloaded with Verati and in senior caprari?
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah, but it was the start in position. It was a 4-3-3 with Insinio on the left and some other guy on the right. Insinio played on the left and... Yeah, but they were much more... I'm not talking about balance and attacking balance and they were... I mean, it was Zeeman. It was in a 4-3-3, it was like I said, it was a 3-2-5. Yeah, but even Mancini's was a 3-2-5 in attacking as well. Spinet's Ola became a left-winger and they pushed all the way up. I think it's got to do with the fact that he needs to have players closer to him.
00:19:39
Speaker
And he doesn't do that in this 4-3-3. In this 4-3-3, if Italy had Lukaku, they'd be unbeatable.
Dominating Possession but Failing to Win
00:19:46
Speaker
But Italy dominate territory in possession. So again, I don't buy that as an excuse either. I mean, Italy just packed the opposition half, four times. He's always got players around him. You can always play those short little passes. But yeah, whether or not that's right for him. Well, that's exactly what I mean. I mean, to me, if Italy had someone like Holland or Lukaku, or even Harry Kane, they'd be unbeatable.
00:20:09
Speaker
Um, it's, I agree with that. I think they would have apps. They would have walked it. And there's, there's a reason why it's leave only one, one of the last six games. You know, they've all, all the others were draws.
00:20:22
Speaker
You know, they, they drew, they drew in the last two qualifiers. They, they drew with England, the one on penalties, drew with Spain, one on penalties. They beat Belgium and they drew with Austria and one after extra time. So in 90 minutes they've drawn one, they've drawn five and one, one. And that is a clear, that clearly tells you and having dominate possession in every single one of those games, except for the Spain mate game, that clearly shows to you that the problem is in the attacking third.
00:20:47
Speaker
which we've known all along. It was the reason why I said that Italy wouldn't win the Euros because of their attack. Somehow they did it, but they won two penalty shootouts to do it, which, you know, you can say it's luck or Donaruma's brilliance or, you know, but at the end of the day, those two of those games you won on penalties. And, you know, so things went your way a little bit as well. Anyway.
00:21:11
Speaker
One thing to think, I'm tired. I'm tired. I've never liked those penalties. This hop and a skip nonsense. It frustrates me and it just, it's penalties. There's, there's statistics showing this hard, high into the corners. Those are the ones that go in this hop and a skip and a pass and a, no, stop that. Stop it. Stop it.
00:21:33
Speaker
the the referees will the sorry the goalkeepers will see through it will be full once or twice but then you you look like an idiot when they save you looks like you're passing the ball and and and it's you you don't even get a rebound from it because you barely taking a shot he needs to stop taking penalties as simple as that.
00:21:51
Speaker
get it. I mean, let someone else. I mean, I know in senior is not good enough. And they don't have any other. How did we win? How did we win two penalties? Well, I mean, that's the thing that is not very good at penalties in seniors. Not very good. It was in senior. Yeah. That is an issue, but I don't believe
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, but that's the thing I don't understand. What is the problem here? Bonucci should be the penalty taker in that case because we've got data on him that he's a good penalty taker. I'd rather he take them, to be perfectly honest with you.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yeah, but I think he's like his last few penalties have been all good. And I mean, he hits them high and hard. And at least in open play, that creates a rebound. This nonsense of a hop and a skip, it's just...
00:22:49
Speaker
The unstoppable penalties are the ones that go into the roof of the net because the goalkeeper would always dive down. The best penalty taker that I think I've ever seen was, well, Del Piero was brilliant at them. He very rarely missed them. He generally put them high.
00:23:04
Speaker
Alan Shearer for me was the best penalty taker because he used to put them in the roof of the net. Now I didn't particularly rate Alan Shearer as a footballer, as a striker I thought he was a bit overrated but as a penalty taker my god I mean this guy he used to put, but the thing is that they're high risk when you put them in the roof of the net because you know you've only got a small area where you could hit the bar you could put it over
00:23:26
Speaker
You know, it's it's it's a high risk, but if you get it right, they will never be saved. Whereas if you put it one side or the other, sometimes you come up against the goalkeeper like Donna Ruma or somebody that goes a little bit early and, you know, they'll get saved with Georgina. I mean, I don't know how he does it. I mean, Balotelli used to do the same thing. And I've tried to try it that and I don't know how you can
00:23:50
Speaker
shoot without looking at the ball. I mean, I just, I've tried it and I just found it impossible. And I mean, I used to just find it incredible how well, I mean, the thing is that Balotelli went probably about 20 penalties without missing one. And everyone was saying he's the best penalty taker in the world. How does he do that? Then I think it was Pepe Reina saved one from him. And after
00:24:13
Speaker
Pepe Reyna sold him a dummy, and after that, everybody caught on and he started missing penalties. The same thing's happened with Giorginio. He would dummy the goalkeeper. He would wait for the goalkeeper to dive and then put it the other way. It was brilliant how he'd done it. Again, I don't know how he'd done it.
00:24:35
Speaker
Now he's missed four in the last year and all four goalkeepers have sold him the dummy. They've sold him a dummy so they've done it. They've pretended to move one way. Giorgino has watched them obviously that they're moving one way and gone to stick it in the other corner but they've pretended to like they've taken a step to move their shoulder to their right for example. Giorgino's put it to the left
00:24:58
Speaker
and then they've dived to the left and they've saved it easily. So they're basically selling him the dummy. He's taken their dummy and that opens the question now of, you know, has he been found out? The goalkeepers know that in order to save a Georgina penalty, you just sell him the dummy and then he can't wait till the last minute anymore.
00:25:21
Speaker
He's killed it. He's killed his technique because his whole success is through. Well, that's what happened with Pickford. Pickford read him in the Euros and that's when he missed it and he looked stupid. Yeah, Pickford took some steps to the other side and Georgina put it the other way.
00:25:40
Speaker
But last night's summer, he definitely did that. He took a step and then to the other side. But you look stupid when you take penalties like that because it doesn't look like you're taking a proper shot. Like I said, you should go for
00:25:55
Speaker
you know, there's been statistic and research of thousands of penalties and somewhere like 85-90% of the ones that are high, like either in the roof of the net or into either side, like the cross, if you know what I mean, the corner, the top corners, that's where they go in. And even if the goalkeeper saves them, you have rebounds. This nonsense of hopping a skip and passing,
00:26:23
Speaker
it's you look like an idiot and the goalkeeper just glues the ball to his hand and you don't even get a rebound or a corner or anything yeah yeah it'll be interesting to see uh what happens now uh certainly for chelsea because they've got Lukaku should be taking the penalty especially is very there no doubt about that
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah. Just before we move on, we have to finish on a positive note with Italy. Where did Italy rank among the greatest international teams of all time? Because we have to debate this. They've got the longest unbeaten run in football history, international run in football history. So
00:27:02
Speaker
First of all, I'm going to go through, because I was doing this, I was researching this yesterday, because I wrote about it. The top unbeaten runs of all time, I'm just going to go through them. So France, 23 matches, 2010 to 2012. West Germany, 23 matches, 1978 to 1981.
00:27:24
Speaker
Algeria surprise surprise currently still unbeaten right now 2018 to present so they've gone three years as well they're unbeaten for 28 matches France 1994 to 96 30 matches then in fifth place is Italy in the 1930s 1935 to 1939 30 30 matches as well so that was the the Italy team that
00:27:49
Speaker
the one successive world cups and won the olympics as well in between that Vittorio Pozzo Zeppi Miazzo was the star of that team Pozzo was the manager fourth place argentina 1991 to 93 31 matches they won two copper americas there Battistuta was the star of that team third place Spain
00:28:11
Speaker
2007 to 2009, 35 matches. That was the golden Spain generation. Second, say it's 35 matches as well, but they came first. Brazil, World Cup winners, 94. This is from 93 to 96. And then Italy, who have overtaken that now there are 36 matches. Brazil are actually
00:28:31
Speaker
complaining and saying that they they they had 36 matches as well that because apparently they they drew with Spain's B team or Holland's B team or something ridiculous but the Brazilians they seem to claim that when it comes to records the Brazilians seem to claim everything it's like Pele when he's claiming his goals record and he was counting goals from the from his
00:28:52
Speaker
that garden and women's goals from respect to victory. We're still just alone as a goalkeeper, probably the greatest moment in football history. It's the worst movie I've ever seen in my life. Oh my God. I like it.
00:29:09
Speaker
But I quite like it. But I mean, among those teams, among those unbeaten runs, I would say that only definitely only Spain's team from 2007 to 2009, I would say superior to Italy's. I mean, that team was medically physically sorry. That's a joke. They were, I mean, they were on another level. But I mean,
00:29:33
Speaker
The rest I think Italy can compete with, but I think that unbeaten runs don't automatically mean you're one of the greatest teams of all time, because I think the greatest international teams of all time are not on that list, apart from Spain. And I think for me, Brazil 1970 is the best international team ever, for me. Pele, Gisigno, Gerson, Rivolino, Tostau. I mean, that was Carlos Alberto. I mean, that was an incredible team.
00:30:02
Speaker
West Germany 72 to 74 I would put in there as well because they won. They were the first team to win a Euros and a World Cup after the one after the other and then they got to another Euros final 76 as well you know Beckenbauer over at Netzer. I mean Gerd Müller who sadly just died didn't he a week or two weeks ago I mean that was an amazing team.
00:30:23
Speaker
the Spain team I said the France team 98-02000, France 84 I would put there as well, Holland 74 and Hungary 54 those teams didn't win the World Cup but I mean I would have all these teams above the current Italy one and they didn't have the unbeaten runs but in terms of the teams from that unbeaten list
00:30:40
Speaker
I think it's it's here up there, you know, with with all of them. I think the midfield definitely is one of the greatest international midfield ever. I really believe that. I believe this international not saying it's the best. I mean, Spain's team from 2008 with Javi and Esther Busquets and and Senna before that. I mean, that was a unbelievable midfield. France's midfield from 84. But I mean, this this is one of the greatest
00:31:08
Speaker
I would put it top five central midfielders central midfields in international football there's been I think I think it's too soon to say anything like that I think I think absolutely it is starting to get to that but Italy need to win a World Cup to be among these teams this generation and Mancini needs to win a World Cup to be amongst these teams I think
00:31:31
Speaker
I think what France in 9800 and Spain 08 to 12 did and West Germany 7274 Brazil's generation which ended in 1970 with Pele winning his third World Cup I mean that that is they are at another level all of them yet
00:31:53
Speaker
Brazil, Brazil 62. I should add as well. They want to. That's the generation I'm talking about with Mario Zagalo and you know, all these, you know, all these great.
00:32:04
Speaker
you know, that generation that that is where you need to win a World Cup to be able to be to even be mentioned in those in those in those terms. Yeah, I mean, when you add the Euros win with three years unbeaten and this amazing midfield, which is a, you know, it is still coming up as well. I think I think it's definitely it's definitely up there for me with those unbeaten teams. But it's yeah, you're absolutely right. You can't
00:32:32
Speaker
You can't even compare them with those two others, those teams that I mentioned in the second list, Brazil 70, West Germany of the 70s, the France, the France team of 98 in 2000, obviously, because they won two tournaments, although I would say they were lucky. But they still did it. And then and then and then they've only won. But they've only won one tournament. I mean, you know, they barely had a decent striker. Then they had Givash and Dugari winning the World Cup, which is just in and of itself. Yeah. And then they had. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's funny how many teams, it's funny how many teams win tournaments without having a decent striker because France 98, France 2018, I think Giroud, who I do like, didn't score a goal. Both times they won the World Cup. Their strikers barely do get e-scored for France in the opening game. But I mean, I don't know how much, how many chances Givarsh missed in France 98. He was absolutely, he was getting as well. No, but I think
00:33:27
Speaker
It's been better. I mean, for me, the 2006. That's the way that 2006 generation, the 94 team. Yeah. Way better. I wouldn't put 94. I wouldn't put 94.
00:33:42
Speaker
I thought the 94 team was pretty average with the exception. I mean, an amazing defense and Badgeo up front, but a pretty poor midfield and they were basically bailed out by Badgeo. I think they were. I mean, Signori, Franco Zola. Nah, man. Yeah, but Zola got sent off. I think it's the only time he's ever been sent off in his life. For nothing. But Signori played, Nicola Berty played. I mean, they had a good team.
00:34:13
Speaker
I mean, the greatest Italy teams I've seen are the 78 to 82 generation. In fact, the 78 team was probably better than the 82 team. In fact, it was definitely better. For me, the 2006 generation. The 2002 to 2006. The 2006 team. I mean, Trapatoni was unlucky.
00:34:31
Speaker
The 2002 team had more talent in the 2017, but didn't have a midfield and with Trappettoni, he was obviously outdated. The referees were bought as well. No, but 2019, I think 1990 for me was Italy's best team was 1990. I don't think so. I think any team
00:34:57
Speaker
I mean that 1990 team didn't have a shot against you. Yeah, but that was more because of the defence team in attack, Andrea Carnivale. And I mean, I like Roberto Mancini and Vialy, but they never really got going. For me, 2002, 2006, the brilliance of Totti, Nzagi, Vieri.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, but then they had Cristiano's. Yeah, but that was 2002. But I mean, if you choose like a generation wise, I think, you know, the 2002, 2006, there, there are bouts, I thought Italy were fantastic. But the 2016 is, but then, you know, you look at slightly before that, and you have the Maldini and Baresi and Tazotti and Costa-Curta in defense, and you are not, and they had António Benarivo was fantastic when they had,
00:35:38
Speaker
the Paliukas and Marchejani's in goal. It was interesting. It was a great team. I don't know, it's difficult. But I think there's no doubt that this Italy side will go on and could absolutely be considered, but they have to do something in the World Cup. And Italy hasn't done anything in the World Cup since 2006. It's been 15 years.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah, no, they haven't got the group 50 years. They have to do something. And that's why I'm a bit annoyed. But I did. But one thing that I've got to say, one thing that I like is what Mancini what Mancini said after the game. And he was annoyed. He was pissed off with Italy. And that made me happy that he was, because that means that, you know, now now Italy have to focus and they have to be, you know, they have to.
00:36:28
Speaker
Also, as one player said, I can't remember which player it was, but it might have been Bonucci said we'd be more worried if we weren't creating any chances and we're drawing these games. That's true. You know, then you'd be worried because it's the having seven shots on target they had yesterday. Seven, seven shots to keep us safe, which is almost unheard of without scoring to have that many number of shots on goal. And and, you know, same with Bulgaria was probably double that.
00:36:55
Speaker
you know, then you think back to the Ventura days where Italy were creating maybe one chance a game if they're lucky, if they were lucky, you know, and they're dominating possession, they're dominating territory, they're packed in the half. And, you know, so, yeah, it's in their own hands. They just need to, yeah, let's win the game on Wednesday that we worry about November. And hopefully they'll win the Nations League. And that's what I'm counting, hoping, counting.
00:37:19
Speaker
That would be nice, that would be nice. Before we move on to club matters, we have to discuss this because this has been a big talking point in the last few days after some comments from Arsene Wenger, who's the FIFA's chief of global football development, I think his title is, and he revealed FIFA's plans, which he's hoping will be put into place from as early as December.
00:37:43
Speaker
be formally announced, and that is FIFA's plans to hold the World Cup every two years. I mean, the ultimate plan is that it will be World Cup Euro, World Cup Euro. That's the ultimate plan. Obviously, you know, that needs UEFA's
00:37:59
Speaker
That needs UEFA's say so. So what was your reaction to this? Because this is something that it looks like is going to get passed. It's got the backing of the of the small nations, which is what you need to get FIFA to get FIFA legislation. I don't think they'll be able to do that because it would just it wouldn't work.
00:38:20
Speaker
It would completely kill the calendar. The players would die. I mean, they're human beings. And then, you know, how are they supposed to survive their European seasons as well? I mean, at some point, someone has to give up. I understand that FIFA want to make more money. That's the only reason they're doing this. But it needs to. Yeah, that's why they're doing it. But it can't. No, no, they can't.
00:38:46
Speaker
I think the thinking behind Venga and obviously we don't know exactly how this is going to play out. The thinking is that at the moment there's something like five or six international windows during the season. So you have September, October, November, March and then the end of the season. So that's five plus a tournament, you know, if there is one every two years in June, June, July.
00:39:12
Speaker
So the thinking is that what will happen is you will have two month, month long windows, international windows. So you'd be looking, I think benga said, October, something like October and March. So for the whole of October and the whole of March, the players will be I like that with their international team. I like that. And there'll be no club. I like that. Yeah, I like that. I think that's a good idea. And what happens is, is you end up. Yeah.
00:39:39
Speaker
playing all the games there, you don't have this back and fro, all this traveling, all this fatigue from the traveling, all this loss of rhythm as well, which is important where a team can go on a good run, then all of a sudden you've got an international break for two weeks and you lose that, you don't have the players, you can't trade. So instead, Wenger says that the clubs will actually have them for seven months straight with no breaks. So that was one thinking.
00:40:06
Speaker
But obviously, you know, the other argument is, does it lose the magic? Do you lose the magic of the World Cup? Absolutely. I mean, there's a, you know, you have some sports have World Cups every year and no one cares anymore. I mean, I just looked at ice hockey and the ice hockey world championships is yawn. You just yawn.
00:40:29
Speaker
the best players, it's every year and you don't even have the best players because the NHL playoffs are going on at the same time. So the only time they've had them in the Olympics and that's really mattered. Every four years, the best players are there, that's when it matters. But for me, no, I don't like this at all.
00:40:55
Speaker
You wait for an ECA, you're naturally going to fight against it. I mean, that's obvious. But the clubs will surely fight against it as well. Because at the end of the day, they pay the wages. They pay the wages for the players. But Venka says there won't be any more matches. I don't mind the October and March having qualifying games in blocks. I think that's a really good idea.
00:41:22
Speaker
And it would kind of make the qualifiers kind of, it would make them more fair, wouldn't they? Like they'd be like qualifier tournaments. Those four weeks away is when you have to deliver in order to qualify for a tournament. I like that. I actually quite like that.
00:41:36
Speaker
But the World Cup every two years? No. No. It would ruin it for me. If you'd have asked me this a few years ago, I would have been banged against it. 100% disgraceful. It's just you at FIFA only caring about money, kill the players.
00:41:55
Speaker
I'll be honest with you, the way that club football is going, the lack of the competitive element, the way that the Premier League is basically monopolising every single player is coming to the Premier League or PSG, how all the other leagues, including our Serie A, are becoming feeder leagues,
00:42:15
Speaker
how the Premier League are spending, you know, something like 600 million net more than every other league, more than every other league combined, actually, this this summer, the other major leagues combined this summer. I watched the way that Club Football was going.
00:42:34
Speaker
I just think I'm sick of it. I would rather see more international football, which is competitive, which is natural in which you can't buy success, in which it brings communities together. I would rather watch more of that. But the reason for that is not necessarily because I think it's a good idea to be every two years, but it's more because
00:42:59
Speaker
I'd rather watch international football in its current form, in the current paradigm. This would kill that. What would happen to the African Cup of Nations? What about the Asian Cup? What about the Euros? They would go every two years. They already are every two years. You would ruin it. It's the same. Nothing would change. The Euros would be every two years. The Euros are not every two years.
00:43:23
Speaker
No, but they would, yeah, but they would take place in that year when the, it wouldn't change, though, it wouldn't change the year after a combination. The Copper America, the Copper America, they have it every whenever they want to, really. I mean, some years they had it three years in a row, and then they had it every three years. And I mean, that's, the con people, it's like, let's keep them out. They're, they're, they're what they,
00:43:46
Speaker
or they don't have it at all anymore. They take the players off the pitch. That was nice for FIFA qualifiers, but I mean... You know what I mean? What I'm trying to say is, I'm saying I enjoy international football much more than I enjoy club football. I don't want to see club football in its current form. Obviously, with the same with the Super League, the same as you were sick,
00:44:08
Speaker
And maybe you were supporting something that was wrong because you were sick of the current status quo. Maybe I'm doing the same here and I'm supporting something that's wrong. The international tournaments shouldn't be every two years because I'm so sick of the way that club football has gone that I'd rather the other the alternative.
00:44:28
Speaker
which is I'd rather watch a World Cup every two years than watch the Champions League every single year in which it's the same eight teams playing in the quarterfinals every year and it's only the Premier League teams and PSG that can win it basically now going forward. I'd rather watch an International World Cup every two years in which there's
00:44:45
Speaker
Everyone can have a go. It can't be bought, you know, that's why i'm more open to it. I'm not saying it's a very is the right solution to the problem Well the asian the asian. I don't see the asian cup. This is like the second oldest international tournament after um after uh, what's it called? uh after um The copa america and fifa world cup. I mean they they have it every four years. Um
00:45:09
Speaker
That's fine. They can keep it every year. I don't think it doesn't change. They just do it. They just do it. They just do it on the, on the, the number of year that the world cup is and doesn't change. I think it just dilutes it and makes it difficult for them to hold their call.
00:45:23
Speaker
I mean, what you got a member is already that I mean, what I am totally against, completely against and what is definitely destroying it is they're making the World Cup 48 teams. We know that that's, that's absolute guarantee. It's going from 32 to 48. I don't even know if it's official. It's 40. I think so in 2030 or 2026.
00:45:40
Speaker
I'm not sure if it's official. If it isn't, it's definitely happening because it's got the support of all the small nations from like Africa, Asia. You know, they've all voted for it because obviously they will get more teams and even the smaller teams in Europe as well, because they will have that gives them the chance to qualify and make money as well. So they're all supported.
00:45:57
Speaker
And that will happen. I'm against that because that dilutes it. It means you'll get stupid poor quality games at the start. Okay, it might give them these nations a chance to improve, but I'm not convinced it will. So I'm totally against that.
00:46:15
Speaker
You know, I think the bottom line is I want a solution to, you know, I want something to the club. The situation with club football is in dire need of a revolution. And there isn't. Doesn't seem to be any kind of workable solution. Yeah, but I don't see how by FIFA having a World Cup every two years, I don't see how that make.
00:46:41
Speaker
And it gives us more of the football we want to see that people enjoy, you know, rather than us having to sit through and watch, you know, club football where the same, the same team, one league. I don't know. I like, I think, I'm not against it because of the, you know, the money in that, but I just don't.
00:47:02
Speaker
The World Cup is every four years. Euros are every four years. And then in between that, you have the African Cup and Asians and the Asian Cup and the Olympics. And that's nice. That's as good as it is. There's now the only...
00:47:15
Speaker
I mean, you know me, I would go back to football as it was when they were playing in China with kicking them from one end of the village to the other. I'm all for tradition. But at the same time, things do change as well. And, you know, I mean, the Super League, for example, I mean, who would have thought that, you know,
00:47:36
Speaker
But unfortunately, you know, evil people take over our sport and change it for the worse. And we need to find a different way to come back to that. And for me, this is a for me, this is a I'd rather watch international. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel. Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with that. But but I don't know if every two years I don't I don't know. It feels like it dilutes. It just makes it less
00:48:00
Speaker
Yeah, it takes away the magic, isn't it? It's like, say, instead of having Christmas once a year, three times a year, it won't feel right, will it? Can you imagine you have Christmas in March, March, August and December? I mean, the magic goes, doesn't it? So I think it's the same. It's the same there. Anyway, tell us what you think anyway, because it did get a lot debate. Hit us up on social media and on Patreon and, you know, our different social media, Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, etc.
00:48:30
Speaker
A couple of questions just before we go to Badjo and Badjo of the Week and Prem Face of the Week. You need to come up with a Badjo of the Week. I've just realized we've got nothing now. Yeah, I saw that. I think we all saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's start off with Frank Kesier, Milan. This is a big issue for Milan right now. His contract runs out next year.
00:48:53
Speaker
The contract talks are not going well. He wants eight million a year euros. Milan have offered, I think about six, six and a half. The contract talks are broken down. They're going to lose them. They're going to lose them. And they allowed this to come to this, you know, to the point, again, they did the same thing again as they did with Donaruma and Telenoglou. I don't know if we'll go to PSG or if we'll go to Juve or if we'll even go to Inter or some other EPL site.
00:49:19
Speaker
I think a lot of that depends on Antonio Conte as well. If Antonio Conte is, if he'll go to Arsenal, it wouldn't surprise me if Kessi ended up going there. But having said that,
00:49:32
Speaker
this is this is you know we can we can say we can say that we can praise Maldini and Massara for for the great things they do but this is not this is a problem with them this is again another player another situation they've got the same thing with Romanioli
00:49:49
Speaker
But I don't think they'll mind losing him. But having because because I mean, yeah, they're losing the transfer fee. Like they are done a rumor. Exactly. That's what it is. KSCA is a big name player. And this is something they need to resolve. And they should have resolved it already by now. They shouldn't be in this position.
00:50:10
Speaker
Even Calabria, they only just got him to... I mean, that should have probably was never in doubt, but they only just got him to sign a new contract and his contract runs out in less than a year as well. I mean, they can't keep letting players go down to their final year. No, they really can't. They need to look two years ahead all the time. Minimum, yeah. Minimum. Now, this is a problem. This is a really problem. I mean, at the end of the day,
00:50:36
Speaker
Locatelli, Pesina, Donnaruma, Calanoglo brought them a grand total of what, eight million euros? That's unacceptable. It's as simple as that. Yeah. And you know which, I mean, you know, which sporting directors? Oh, we know that. I mean, Leonardo is, you know, he's, he's, he's absolutely making a flankey. And I think he would be ideal for the midfield, to be honest with you.
00:50:58
Speaker
He's such a good physical presence and he would create a move. I mean he does remind me a little bit of Engoro Kante. So if you can't get Kante, he's a more ball play. He covers a lot of space.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, Kante is more, he's more, he's much more smaller. I mean, he's a tank. Kesie is a tank. I mean, he's strong. You can't push anybody, but he does cover a lot of space and he's pretty quick.
00:51:29
Speaker
One thing I would say about Milano, at least they are reasonably well covered. We hope they are in that. It looks like Tanaly this season. He was greatly on the 12th. No, this is his season. I'm really happy that he's here. Because I mean, I said in our preview, that this was, you know, I've always believed in him. I've always said he's been a, he's a generational talent, but this, it was make or break time this season.
00:51:51
Speaker
And he's off to a good start, but it's far too soon to say anything definitive, but I do like what I see. He's starting to fulfill the potential that I saw was there. And I believe in him. I really do.
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Quick talk on Juventus because Andrea Niele has been getting getting quite a bit of criticism this week. There was a report that came out that
00:52:21
Speaker
a couple of reports actually in Italian newspapers that Max Allegri is furious with Juventus' transfer market and Andrea Agnelli has been blamed along with Arriba Benne and Cherebini and I think it's, I've seen a lot in the Juventus community have been discussing this now and they've been asking the question
00:52:46
Speaker
Because for years, Angeli was praised as this genius, evil genius at times, but absolute genius at the way that Juventus were, you know, after Calcioppoli, they went through that crisis for like four years, four or five years, where they almost became a banter club, two second place finishers, awful in the transfer market, underperforming on the pitch. And then, Angeli was appointed around about 2010 time, I think,
00:53:15
Speaker
And then, you know, within a couple of years, Juventus went on this long run. They became, you know, all powerful. No one could touch them. And Aniele was just seen as, you know, the master. Now people are starting to... The question has been posed, and I think it's worth us, you know, debating it. Was it Aniele that was the real secret behind Juventus' rebirth?
00:53:43
Speaker
or was it actually let's remember who was who was who was more like let me i'll tell you why i pose that question because since marotta has left you know you've entered we've seen that the one we've we've debated we've gone through this so many times i'm not going to go into too much detail but we've seen we've seen the way that you've entered have been run uh in the last three to four years since marotta started to lose power to paratici and then once he then left in 2018 shortly after ronaldo was was signed
00:54:11
Speaker
The Juventus' transfer policy was a disaster, since Marotta left with Palatici, the way that the finances were kept, the way that the salaries that were given out, the way that Juventus couldn't sell anyone, just the way the strategy, the non-existent team building,
00:54:30
Speaker
um just everything really um has been even from a pr point of view there's been a lot of mistakes it just hasn't been a particularly well-run club i mean you've had danielle with the super league disaster i mean just a complete catastrophe the way that that was executed and how he looked like a complete fool how he's made himself lose all power in uefa in the eca um a lot of mistakes have been made by danielle and in the hierarchy of the club over the last three years
00:54:58
Speaker
So, Perattici's left now and Maurizio Arriva-Bener has come in as the CEO. Now, I've been speaking to some people because I've got a lot of friends that work in Formula One.
00:55:09
Speaker
actually know someone that actually, I can't say who it is, but actually directly works inside Formula One. And they told me that Areva Benne, I mean, I don't watch Formula One much. I used to like it as a kid, but I'm not a big fan anymore. So I'm not an expert myself. This has purely come from people that know the sport. Areva Benne,
00:55:29
Speaker
at Ferrari, he was the principal, the chief, the main man at Ferrari, basically like the CEO, like he is at Juventus, was a complete and utter disaster at Ferrari. They won nothing. They were way off. He made loads of mistakes. And, you know, his background is sales and marketing. He doesn't have any background in sports. He's been an independent, I think, on the board of directors at UVA since 2012.
00:55:55
Speaker
But, you know, I'm suspicious. I'm always suspicious when people move into a new role in the corporation. They're just moved around in the corporation. That just looks like you're basically doing a favor for a friend whenever I see that happen. That's the immediate impression I get with that Eva Ben there. I don't even know what his exact responsibilities are, but he was a disaster at Ferrari.
00:56:14
Speaker
Um, doesn't seem to have much background in, in marks. And I think he's in his mid sixties, that sixties, three, 64 dresses terribly as well, by the way, awful dress. I see some people say, no, he's the best dress, but if you think he's dressed as well, you, you really have poor dress sense. He's color, color coordination, awful. He just anyway.
00:56:36
Speaker
Charabini, I think it's too hard to say after one window, but I definitely have, I definitely have grave doubts over Geneva Benes, seeing how bad he was. And I'm thinking this is the guy that's the CEO. Why is he even in the job? So anyway, to get back to the initial point.
00:56:51
Speaker
Aniele. Was it Aniele? Or was it Marotta? Are we right to be questioning Aniele now? Absolutely. The way, you know, you've have been on a decline and Cristiano Ronaldo was supposed to be a Puntodarivo, an arrival point and instead it's just been a slow decline where he's kind of been the glue that's been holding it together and it wasn't supposed to be that. He was going to be the guy who was going to be the icing on the cake when they won the Champions League and they've not been anywhere close to that.
00:57:17
Speaker
at all. So I think the question is absolutely worth should be raised and is the right question to state. But who was it Angelio Marotta? Let's remember that Marotta struggled.
00:57:34
Speaker
for a couple of years when he took over he got it he got it wrong a few times um um well first season i think second season it was 2011 2000 Marotta came in yeah so he needed it he got it wrong a couple of times there uh and he um you know he brought with him del neri uh that wasn't that did not end well
00:57:57
Speaker
And he made a few poor signings and it took a while for him to get into the Uwe frame of mind and to get it right. And I think both of them needed each other at the same time. I think it was a perfect storm. But there's no doubt that Beppe Marotta is probably the best. He is the best pointing director in Italy. There's no doubt about that.
00:58:22
Speaker
the way he's handled inter is proof of that if you can if you can keep your calm and sort things out in that and that chaos and circus then then you can you can do anything but so i think it's i think it was a combination of both i think aniele was the right man at the right time i think marota was the right person at the right time in the right place i think they needed each other and
00:58:44
Speaker
Maybe it's time to move away from Anjali. Who knows? Is he the right person to lead Juve into the future? Well, we'll have to wait and see. But we know that, you know, based on previous experiences, you know, Juve, they don't change presidents that often. They like to keep them there for a long time. And
00:59:05
Speaker
I still think the jury's a little bit out on Karabini on this new project. I think this is year zero. I think COVID shouldn't be underestimated. What's happening there, how that affected Juve and all Italian clubs. So I want to wait. I want to wait one more year. But I do, I know that this is year zero at Juve with Allegri. But Allegri isn't doing himself any favors either.
00:59:28
Speaker
And for me, he's turning Kulesevsky and Kiesa into a problem. There is no problem. It's only in his head that this exists. It's only in Allegri's head that this problem exists. Kulesevsky can play as a winger, so can Kiesa. Decide on your formation and stick to it. And if Dibala is not part of that, then sell him. Get rid of him.
00:59:49
Speaker
then you'll have more budget to bring in players that actually suit you. It's that simple. When you've got really, I mean, Cristiano Ronaldo left, you've done this before. When players don't suit their, how they work, then they get rid of them. And... If he plays at 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 and he's still 3-5-1-1 or 3-4-1-2, whatever it's been suggested, and he sticks Kiesa as a wing back or a right... I mean, that's exactly what I mean. That's...
01:00:17
Speaker
I'm done. I mean, that is just that is a necessary because he should he should be playing. He's got the players to play a 4-3-3. That's his best formation with Kondosevsky and Kiaza on the wings. I don't know. I think it is. Well, not with not with Di Bala. I think you play. Well, that's exactly what I mean. I don't think I think you should be done with Di Bala. It's as simple as that. He's not delivered. I mean, I love Paulo Di Bala. Don't get me wrong. But what's more important for you there?
01:00:51
Speaker
This comes back again to the complete lack of team building of which are nearly ultimately responsible for that. They built a team throughout these last three, four years. But in this transfer market as well, they've had a transfer market this summer to work on building a team for a certain manager, for a certain formation, for a certain style of play. Did they not sit together at the beginning of the summer and say, right, this season, this is the formation we're going to play. This is the types of players we need. This is the style of play we want.
01:01:12
Speaker
to feed Paulo de Bama's ego or for you to
01:01:20
Speaker
Well, here we are now in September after two games this season and Juventus and Allegri have zero idea what their formation is and they don't have any players that are compatible with one another for certain formations. Some players, if you play a certain formation, that's it. They're completely out of the... You can't use them like Di Barla. You play a 4-3-3, that's it. He's useless. You can't play him at all. You play a two-man attack,
01:01:45
Speaker
That's it. Kiezer and Kuleszewski are completely wasted as well. So this is where the whole team building has been so atrocious. And ultimately, that comes from... For me, Juve is best. He should play a 4-3-3 with Kuleszewski and Kiez on either wing. They should have a midfield trio of Locatelli, Arturmello and one of Bentancur or Rabio, depending on... I'd prefer Bentancur because I think he provides more defensive solidity.
01:02:14
Speaker
And then Aleksandro and Danilo and Delicht and Ponucci slash Kehlini. Let me get rid of you guys. He's a good player. I just think he's just, you know, he's confused. He doesn't give defensive stability. Yes, he does.
01:02:34
Speaker
Fucking excuse my friend. No but he is I think there is a good player there I think he you know if you you know with Locatelli and Arturmello you have more like a they're not neither of them are registered. Every day that passes the more and more he becomes like Montelivo he's one of these players that flats us to deceive you think he's going to become this player it's going to become this player but in the end he's just a flake and that's the
01:02:56
Speaker
That's the more and more. And I'm not writing him off, but, you know, he's had longer enough now and then a time comes where he needs to, you know, he needs to move from Montolivo into, you know. I think there's a player there. I just think that when you don't have stability and when you don't have, you don't have confidence as to what you want to do. And that's the thing with Allegri. He needs to realize that he's not taking over a Juve from Antonio Conte.
01:03:22
Speaker
he's taken over a Uwe from year zero and he's there to build an identity and when you're there to build an identity you cannot tinker around with the formation and play Western McKinney as some sort of inverted right-winger you know that's the problem you can you can tinker once you have a spine set this is year zero for Uwe and he's supposed to
01:03:45
Speaker
He's supposed to build on that and set how you were supposed to play. And he's not, you know, you can argue, you can accuse and nearly as much as you want. And he is responsible ultimately. But Allegri has not been impressive. He's making, he's making unnecessary mistakes. If Paolo Dubala is a problem, then get rid of him.
01:04:06
Speaker
It's as simple as that. This is Yuva. Yuva will always have the star power to drag, the power to bring in new stars. Always will. But you can't play a 4-4-2 to suit Paulo Di Bala when it doesn't suit the rest of the team. And it makes you look like you're a team from the 1990s. I mean, it makes no sense.
01:04:27
Speaker
4-3-3 is how you're supposed to play. If Dibala can play as a false 9 or not, that's that's the debate. If he can't, then get rid of him. Because Juve can't afford... Paulo Dibala has not been at his best for three years now. At what point do you... Yeah, he was good under Sarri. He was brilliant under Sarri, but the last season of Allegri... I mean, he's been injured and, you know, maybe get rid of him then. Maybe it's time to move
01:04:55
Speaker
Well he's in the last year of his contract and they're in contract talks at the moment. DiBala's asking for a lot of money. I don't think he's either. At the same time, you end up losing him for nothing. You make nothing back on him, but there's no market for him.
01:05:09
Speaker
There was a market for him. He would have been sold in the last two years. Or they would have at least got an offer. I mean, I still think that, you know, I hope that he's not that finished. I mean, that's the thing. You're going to build your team around Apollo Dubala who can't press. That means that he's finished physically because when Dubala was at his best, his movement was fantastic.
01:05:28
Speaker
But not like now, he's walking around on the pitch like Messi and Ronaldo. It's like Argentinian uncle walks onto the patch of grass.
01:05:41
Speaker
I don't disagree. I don't disagree with you there, but he's never been able to press. He's never, he's never been a presser, but it hasn't been as important and it hasn't been as, hasn't been as a problem as it is in the last couple of years. Because football has moved, football has moved so much towards pressing in the last three years since Clark with Liverpool. You have to look at Sweden, what they did to Spain. I think that is the most perfect example of that.
01:06:06
Speaker
I mean, they've chased the life out of them. I think that game was, it wasn't one of those games where Sweden played like they did in the Euros against Spain. They won comprehensively against Spain and they deserved their win. The way they pressed, the way they defended, the way they attacked. And Koulousefski was the man of the match and the reference point for that team. Paolo Dubala walks around on a pitch.
01:06:28
Speaker
I mean, you have to make a tough decision. Paolo Lybala has done a fantastic job for Juve, but he's consistently been declining. And the question is there, do you build around a player who's peaked or not peaked, but his physique is starting to go?
01:06:46
Speaker
Or do you build it around someone like Olusefsky and Kiesa and Artur Melo and Locatelli and Delich? I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer. It's a no-brainer, what you do. You will buy a star number nine that will suit their football next summer. There's no doubt in my mind about that. Paolo Dubala and Mauro Icardi are not the answers. And not in this city, not right now.
01:07:13
Speaker
Icardi could have been a decent stopgap as much as I'd never raised him. But if you got to sign Mauro Icardi, you're going to have to keep how would you buy that? No, but I mean, if you could have got Icardi, you're just for a loan this year. He would have at least insured top four, I think. He would have sold enough gold to get Ube in the top four, which I think is very, very much going to be a fight. It's going to be a fight this season. And then that happens and they can't rebuild. They still think you're going to finish top four.
01:07:41
Speaker
exaggeration but I do worry about Allegri. I think he's raising questions because I feel that what we've seen is that he doesn't know what his best team is. He doesn't know what formation and that's worrying. It's one thing the results don't bother me as much.
01:07:59
Speaker
That's not just him, but it is a part of the problem. That comes down to what I said. At the start of the summer, they should have all sat down together and decided this is the formation. And they usually do that. And built towards that team. Yeah, here we are, first two games of the season. He's played, how many different formations have played within those three games? And they've all, you know, so many different formations. I don't know. I mean, we'll have to wait and see if this, you know, if they find...
01:08:21
Speaker
Yeah, I have to say this week Napoli, Napoli away. And then they go and beat Napoli 3-0 this weekend and Diwala scores too and it's fantastic. And then we'll be talking about something else, but I mean, I'm not so far.
01:08:36
Speaker
That's not going to happen. Anyway, Patro of the Week. Gone then. I've got because the Mercato just closed this last week. And for me, it's the Italian sporting directors collectively.
01:08:51
Speaker
I mean, this is a league that has lost so much talent. They're best players, they're the biggest stars. And the way they've replaced them with, I think, again, it just goes to show that Italian sport, sporting directorship is phenomenal when it's good. From Tiago, you know, from what Rome have done under Tiago Pinto, to Beppe Marotta, to what Fiorentina has done, to what Lazio, you can go on. I think they've done Atalanta,
01:09:19
Speaker
I'm really impressed what they've done. And then it's classic Italian. I mean, the talking point has been that Italian football has lost a lot of money due to COVID, but they haven't lost the people that have the creativity and competence to rebuild. And that for me has been so clear, this transfer window.
01:09:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Prem face of the week. I've got I've got two great ones, but I'm going to leave. I'm going to save one of them for next week because it'd be more topical with European competition returning. The one I'm going to go for, though, is Gabrielle Agbon Lahore, former Aston Villa former Aston Villa striker, who said he was asked
01:10:17
Speaker
Who would you rather have playing for you up front in a final? Harry Kane or Cristiano Ronaldo? Who do you think he went for?
01:10:28
Speaker
Well, I know I saw the clip and it made me laugh my arse off. And it's like even this was on TalkSport and the person he said it to cringe so bad. Yeah. And the person he said it to is like one of the top ten of friend faces himself. It was really, really cringy. It was funny. It was very funny.
01:10:54
Speaker
Again, this is so unfair on the players in question, this is so unfair on Harry Kane. He didn't ask for this nonsense, he's got enough on his plate to deal with it at Spurs after the summer he's had there and all the rumours surrounding him refusing to train or whatever.
01:11:12
Speaker
He does not need Gabi Agbon Lahore to say that he'd prefer him to Cristiano Ronaldo in a one-off cup final because it's an absolutely ludicrous thing to say and I think Agbon Lahore is just trolling to be honest. I don't think he even believes it himself. I really think he is. I think of it. I mean I've seen some of the things this guy has said before. I like Harry Kane and Harry Kane is one of the best number nines in the world. There's no doubt about that.
01:11:43
Speaker
Harry Kane's played in three finals and scored no goals. He was awful when Tottenham's two finals. For England, I actually thought against Italy, he was actually quite good in the first half an hour until he got abandoned out at sea for the rest of the match and didn't touch the ball. I don't think he made a touch in the Italy penalty area for the whole game. I actually thought he wasn't as bad as everyone made out in that final.
01:12:08
Speaker
at the end of the day, he didn't score and didn't have a shot. But Cristiano Ronaldo scored 20 goals in finals, 20 goals in finals, just had to double check that. 20 goals over his career in finals against none. I mean, how can you I mean, it's just ridiculous. Do some research. It is. It is a silly thing to say. Cristiano Ronaldo, look at the look of his number of titles he's won and how many goals he scored in those finals. Come on.
01:12:34
Speaker
like please stop stop yeah champions just stop like it's ridiculous yeah yeah okay let's go on to our questions from our listeners and patrons
01:12:49
Speaker
First question is from Ivan Barone from NIMA. Frank Ribery is joining Salaie Tana. They're firepower up front with, what's his name? Yes, Simi and Bonazzoli, a former inter-youth player.
01:13:07
Speaker
I think this is what's going to keep them up, to be honest. I like it. And I think it's such a beautiful thing that, you know, it's reminiscent of the old days of Calcio when you had these big stars kind of end their careers in the Brescias and the Salaamitanas. I like it. I really like it.
01:13:27
Speaker
Yeah, and there's also reports that Sir Nitano are going off to David Louise as well. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, he's passed his best, passed his best as well. But it's a lot of fun. It's good. It's good for the league. It's good for the city. I mean, it raises the interest. Absolutely. It increases the interest in the league to have these kind of... I like it. I really like it.
01:13:47
Speaker
I was just going to say, you can take the David Luis. Okay, Kunal Soni on Patreon, he asks, what did you make of the Italy game? I saw the full match and it gave me a headache.
01:14:09
Speaker
They didn't do badly in the first half and created so many chances which weren't taken. Second half was disappointed and I felt like Georgina and Verrazi together wasn't helping as none of them tried to score. They were amazing if you play Spain as they would help release pressure by keeping possession but not versus a team like Bulgaria as everyone sat
Strategic Errors in Player Substitutions
01:14:25
Speaker
back. They should have gone with Pellegrini or Zagnolo sooner and not taken off Borrella as he was at least trying to make runs and score. Well, yeah, I think we've covered quite a lot of this stuff already.
01:14:36
Speaker
I agree on the Pellegrini point. He only brought him on me like the last minute and I think that a kind of player like a Pellegrini or Locatelli were the kind of players you need against a team that sit deep rather than a
01:14:51
Speaker
both Georgina and Verratti because Georgina and Verratti won't score many goals or won't score goals at all in open play they can't shoot from outside the area whereas Pellegrini and Locatelli can so when they're a deep defense just having someone that can take a shot yeah is helpful so I agree with that um but but yeah it was just like we said wasted a lot of chances the attack
01:15:15
Speaker
you know, not having that top class attacker, not having, you know, prolific attackers. That, that is something that obviously has, has held, held early back. And yeah, like you said, Barela, you know, we just, we said that as well, the subs, Mancini's not the strongest.
01:15:32
Speaker
not the strongest at making subs. We saw that in the Euros as well. You know, he got it right against Austria. His subs worked against Austria, but against Belgium, he made, you know, he made mistake, I thought, and the Belgian came and kind of got away with it. Against Spain, he made a mistake at 1-0, didn't he? Handed the initiative, handed the initiative to Spain to come back in. And then in the final, I guess in the final, it was kind of enforced because it got a lot of injuries, so we shouldn't be too harsh. And I guess he brought in Christanta, he brought in Christanta, who actually got their flick on for the
01:16:01
Speaker
for the equalizer, so I guess we should give him some credit. We should give him some credit for that.
Fiorentina's Europa League Aspirations
01:16:08
Speaker
Dev Nandan on Patreon for Nimr. With the way Fiorentina are playing, can we fans dream of the Europa League this season? And if they do well, will Vlauovic sign the extension? Why don't the viola try to sign, or why didn't they try to sign Ruben Loftus Cheek? He did well under Sarina Midfield 3.
01:16:25
Speaker
He will be an upgrade on benefit. I actually think a few viola fans can dream of playing Europa League and in a top seven topic. Absolutely. Because they have that quality. There's no doubt about that.
01:16:43
Speaker
I'm really, I mean, so far, what we've seen is something really, you know, he's been really, they've been really impressive, in my opinion. And it's, no, I mean, I'm waiting for Amrabad to come back to how good he was. And because I think the central midfield is so interesting with Poulgar in Castorili, Amrabad, etc.
01:17:06
Speaker
And Milenko, Milenko, Milenko, it's extending. I think Blauwitsch, if they can, you know, he'll definitely score goals. No, it's going to be, it's going to be really interesting. I have faith in Fiorentina. I think it's going to be a good season for them. I agree. I agree. I said it. I said it straight off the Roman game that they're a dark horse.
01:17:26
Speaker
They're a dark horse this season. And if we're talking about attacks, I mean, it's a shame they didn't bring in. I mean, I'm not saying I'm the biggest fan of Berardi, but if they'd have brought in Berardi as well as a front three of Niko Gonzalez, Wlawovic and Berardi would have been. Yeah. And also Torreira back as well. I think I think I like it.
01:17:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And Bonaventura, I think that while I agree, he's yeah, he can be upgraded. I think he actually suits the style of play that the Italiano tries to play because he presses high and he's very good in short agreed. His short game is very good. Bonaventura. He doesn't have the pace to play box to box or or to to be in, you know, counter attacking or or having to cover long distances. But when he plays for a team that's going to dominate,
01:18:13
Speaker
territory and can condense the space. One of the two is actually very good. And he's actually looked pretty good so far this season. So he's been a surprise starter because he really didn't even start the first game. And and, you know, we all know about as well. I mean, OK. Yeah. Well, I'm about to sell. I mean, I mean, they I think it's a player number. I'm just I don't know why it just hasn't worked out for him there. But I think there is a player there.
Juventus' Transitional Phase and Strategic Rebuilding?
01:18:40
Speaker
amid osama on patreon looking at the players at hand in the contract situation it looks like it will be two more transitional years for uplay my question is since
01:18:50
Speaker
almost 10 players contracts will run out over this season or next. Diwala, Quadrado, Benadeski, Desilio, Perin, Rabio, Ramsey, Rugani, Chiellini, Pinsolio. None of them are worthy of extensions. How do you rebuild from there? Juve basically need to sign a full squad without a single penny coming in. Well, I understand that Quadrado is in talks, advanced talks for an extension.
01:19:15
Speaker
whether or not I would sign up for another year even though he's even he's 33 I mean the guy looks like he's 25 the way he's playing he's he's fantastic I've never understood the hate he gets I think he's the one one of the guarantees outstanding he's absolutely outstanding
01:19:36
Speaker
He breaks the press. He's got pace. He can play multiple roles. I think he's fantastic. The other players I'd agree. I don't know. I mean, I'd maybe, I'd maybe give, I'd maybe give Rabio a new contract for the very little, for very least to protect his value because I think you'll find, but you will find buyers there with Rabio. He's young enough, but the rest of the players, I would probably agree with you. Bernadeschi, maybe, if you sell him, protect his value. If you don't give him,
01:20:04
Speaker
But yeah, the rest of them, I'm with you. I mean, Pinsoglio, Quilini, Quilini will be too old, Rugani. Yeah, I'm with you. And we'll be petty and maybe if he's all right, keep him as a second goalkeeper, fine. With the others, yeah, I would. And yeah, it's like we've discussed already. I mean, this team hasn't been built to the team building, the squad building.
01:20:30
Speaker
hasn't been a kind of like a three-year plan like Marotta when he comes into a club. It's like you feel like he puts in a plan, a three-year plan there and block by block he tries to build the right back for the fence, the right bit centre midfield and the striker. We need this position. Let's sign these three players this window and in the next three windows, next window we'll try and improve these three positions and gradually over two, three, four windows you finally fill in every area of need.
01:20:53
Speaker
you don't get that impression with Juventus at all. So yeah, absolutely, there's a lot of work to do. The only positive I would say is that there are three or four really fantastic players that if they can just put some kind of process together for the future, that Chiesa, Delict, Locatelli, those three especially, they've got three
01:21:22
Speaker
young players who are as good as anyone in their age group in the world that you can build, you know, you can build around. But there's a lot of work. There's a lot of work to do everywhere else, for sure. Okay, final question. Ramon Varela. And I apologize if we answered this last week. Just as we were starting the show, I was starting to have doubts before we answered it. We didn't have time to check. But he says, I read your piece on Ronaldo. I wrote a feature last week about how he wasn't worth it.
01:21:51
Speaker
I agree with everything you said, but for the title, which raises two questions. One, COVID was a game changer. We don't know what, if any, long-term branded benefits will remain for UVE for signing Ronaldo. And two, would Delict and Chiesa have pushed for an agreed, a move to UVE if Ronaldo wasn't there? And finally, did UVE waste
01:22:12
Speaker
did Serie A waste Ronaldo as much as Juventus wasted him? So first question, yeah, Covid was a game changer. But, you know, Juventus were already struggling financially before Covid kicked in. We saw every single summer was a frantic, a frantic race every summer to try and balance the books. And that affected their transfer policy as well. It all came about
01:22:36
Speaker
plus Valenzo and players and capital gains and doing swap deals, dodgy swap deals like Splinnit Solar for Pellegrini and you know these kind of swaps just to balance the books rather than about building a better team. So financially you know Renato already had a bad effect there and
01:22:53
Speaker
And the long term branding benefits, yes, I mean, he did raise the value of sponsorship deals. But, you know, now that he's gone, the new sponsorship deals obviously will go back to the return to how they were. So he only helped
01:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, he only helped for the period that he was there. And they already would have been dropping already because of COVID. Would the Licton Cays have pushed for a move without Ronaldo? Cays are definitely, Juventus, traditionally, historically, they always signed the best Italian players and they moved away from that a little bit in recent years. They're now moving back towards that.
01:23:31
Speaker
Delict, I think, yeah, you've probably got a point. I think Ronaldo definitely did play a role we saw when Ajax knocked out Juventus in the Champions League that Ronaldo basically spoke to Delict after the game and a lot of people said that. Did he say to him? Did he tell him to come? So I think, yeah, Delict said that Ronaldo was one of his idols and one of the players he looked up to.
01:23:51
Speaker
you know what young players are like, they get starstruck by celebrity. Even someone as mature as the lift, I'm sure does. So yeah, I'm sure that did help for sure. And maybe you're right, maybe he wouldn't have moved to Juventus if it wasn't for Ronaldo.
01:24:07
Speaker
And finally, did Serie A waste Ronaldo?
Serie A's Organizational Challenges
01:24:10
Speaker
Absolutely, they wasted him. Absolutely. And he comes back to something that we've spoken about all the time on his podcast, that the marketing in Serie A is a disaster, the whole organization of the league, the way that they can't even sort out their TV rights. You know, you've got
01:24:25
Speaker
the biggest, the most marketable person in the world. And you have someone running your social media accounts who can't even speak English, let alone write it. You can't even close TV deals in foreign countries. You can't even
01:24:45
Speaker
you sell your TV rights in your own country to an organization that can't even broadcast the game without it freezing every two seconds. I mean, you know, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. You've got the most marketable machine in the world and you waste them just by being such a backward, and I can say this because I'm Italian, such a backward country.
01:25:07
Speaker
Sorry to say that. It is what it is. I mean, everyone knows it. It's true. I mean, did you see it? We haven't mentioned this yet. Did you see the picture of Sam Dorian's toilet? Did you see that picture? It looks like it's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. It's absurd. Yeah. And I'm trying to think of a comparison. It looks like a horizontal. It was the most disgusting bathrooms I think I've ever seen in my life.
01:25:34
Speaker
I mean, it looks like it hasn't been taken care of for 50 years. I dare look behind the door in the pubic to see what is there. Predator the Alien 35. Yeah, no, it was the most disgusting thing I think I've ever seen, to be honest. It was horrible.
01:25:56
Speaker
I mean, when those kind of pictures go round at the league around around the world, you know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Ronaldo Messi's there in your league. Lukaku, it doesn't matter. Yeah. That is the image. That is the image you're portraying around the world. This is Serie A as well. They don't just look at the players. And that's I mean, this is the issue as long as you have this is the current paradigm as you have in Italy with people, the people in charge being in charge. Nothing's going to happen. It's as simple as that. It is what it is.
Returning to Traditional Podcast Format and Listener Interaction
01:26:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:26
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, that's all we have time for for today. We will have an interview on Thursday. We're returning to our interview format now. We've obviously, during the transfer window, we've been focusing more on the transfer market because it is what seems to interest people the most. So we're now going to be moving back towards the usual
01:26:47
Speaker
Yeah, the usual one. We'll still be doing, you know, some reaction and post and post. We'll still be doing that, but we're going to be moving towards the back towards a nice classical form that we started on. But yeah, remember to keep sending us your questions on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Patreon. We love the questions you guys send in. Yeah, absolutely. Until next time. Ciao ciao.