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The Fundamentals of Marketing: Branding, ChatGPT and Beyond
269 Plays1 year ago
In this podcast episode, Mark, the host of "Marketing Spark," interviews Louis Gudema, author of "Bullseye Marketing" and fractional CMO for B2B startups and growth stage companies.
Louis explains his unique approach to marketing and the Bullseye Marketing framework, which has received positive feedback from readers worldwide.
Mark and Louis also discuss the process of writing a second edition of a book, the current state of the marketing landscape, and the effectiveness of brand marketing versus lead generation marketing.
The conversation highlights the importance of brand and lead generation marketing while acknowledging the different skill sets required for each.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Louis Goudema and Bullseye Marketing
00:00:11
Speaker
I've written three marketing books. As a writer, writing a book is a labor of love. They're a lot of work, but they're extremely satisfying. Today I'm talking with Louis Goudema, who just published the second edition of Bullseye Marketing, which offers strategies and ways for small and medium sized businesses to grow.
00:00:32
Speaker
His book delivers hundreds of tips and best practices for almost two dozen marketing tactics, such as social media, email marketing, and search advertising. Louis is a fractional CMO for B2B startups and growth stage companies. And he mentors startups at MIT and leads an annual marketing bootcamp for the MIT community.
Writing Books: The Process and Purpose
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome to Marketing Spark, Louis. Hello, Mark. Thanks for having me on.
00:00:58
Speaker
Before we jump into bullseye marketing and your approach to marketing, I'd like to talk a little bit about books and book writing. As a writer, I appreciate that, as I said, books are her labor of love. Talk to me about why you wrote bullseye marketing and, as important, decided to create a second edition of the book. So I decided to write the book in part, obviously, for promotional reasons. Some people say a book is the new business card.
00:01:27
Speaker
But I thought I had something important to say. And as we get into bullseye marketing, I'll explain it more. But I felt that there was a whole lot of chatter and noise around marketing that wasn't helpful. And that I had kind of developed an approach that could produce results and could produce success for companies a lot more reliably and a lot faster.
Bullseye Marketing: Target Audience and Benefits
00:01:53
Speaker
And in fact, when I was developing it,
00:01:57
Speaker
decided I should give a talk to a group and see what the feedback was from a group to kind of do a little test, arrange to give a talk to a business group. And when I was done talking, the very first person who stood to ask a question said, why has no one come up with this before?
00:02:14
Speaker
and in a positive way. This is such a good idea. So I felt I had something useful and important to say. And that's those two combinations. I felt it could be good for the industry, for the people I work with, and it could be good for me. I'd like to discuss your approach to the book once you realize there was demand for a different type of marketing book. I read a lot of marketing books.
00:02:41
Speaker
I get tempted by what people write about on LinkedIn and Twitter, so I go to the local public library, which is awesome here in Toronto, get the book, and I get about 20, 25 pages into the book, and then I get bored. The thesis has been talked about. I understand what they're trying to say, and the rest of the book just loses steam. It just seems like the other 175 pages, and these books are typically about 200 pages, are fodder.
00:03:11
Speaker
and that the book could easily have been an ebook or a long blog post as opposed to a book. And I'd like to get your take on when you were thinking about writing bullseye marketing and you looked at the other marketing books out there, what was your approach in terms of making sure that it captured and as important held people's interest and attention? Well, when I first wrote it, I thought I was writing a book for newbies.
00:03:40
Speaker
And that really experienced marketers wouldn't be the ones who were reading it, people like yourself. And so I thought that a lot of information, a lot of detail, as you said, go into something like 20 channels with information on how to best execute on them. I thought that would be very useful for newbies. It turned out some very experienced marketers said this is really terrific. Now the book operates on two different levels.
00:04:08
Speaker
And in the introduction to the second edition, which is focused exclusively on B2B, you might approach the reading of the book in two different ways.
Strategic Frameworks in Marketing Books
00:04:17
Speaker
First of all, it's a marketing framework. It operates at a 30,000 foot level. And so for the people who are interested in that high level strategic approach, there's about seven chapters or so throughout the book.
00:04:32
Speaker
that do a deep dive and explain it and would help them. Not just with three chapters that go into bullseye marketing, but chapters on how to create a successful marketing team using analytics and data, agile marketing, and a few other things. Some people may just want to read that part of it, and I get it. Other people
00:04:55
Speaker
may read that part and then go to particular chapters and say, oh, now we're really starting to ramp up video or display ads or email marketing or whatever. And then they'll dip down into those chapters. And then there are some people who are very operationally oriented, very tactically oriented who will want to read it straight through. I had one reviewer on Amazon describe it as an encyclopedia of marketing and not everyone reads encyclopedias cover to cover.
00:05:25
Speaker
At a high level, how is bullseye marketing different from a lot of the other marketing books out there? It sounds like it's a book that you could use depending on what your needs are or your interests or your priorities. So you could go to a certain part of the book, get the information and insight that you need, and you don't necessarily have to read other sections of the book. It sounds a little more
00:05:50
Speaker
something that's more tactically oriented than high level big picture thinking, is that an accurate way to describe the book? No, I think it's both. I think the real strategic insight was the bullseye marketing framework. And I think that's the big value, that's the big takeaway. And so people who do only think of it as tactical insights or tactical tactics are gonna miss the big picture. The bullseye marketing framework that that person responded to with the why has no one thought of this before,
00:06:20
Speaker
And that I've gotten feedback from frankly, all over the world, people saying, I love this. Douglas Burdette, who's the host of the marketing book podcast, wrote the forward for this. He's read something like 500 marketing books like yourself. He reads a lot.
00:06:34
Speaker
And he was very enthusiastic about it when he interviewed me on the first one and encouraged me to write the second edition and was very gracious and very willing to write a forward for it. And I've had other people who read in depth many books and on marketing and find it very helpful. So I think it's the big insight is that strategic framework. And then for the people who need help on the tactical level, that's there too, to be called on when they need that.
Rewriting Challenges: Balancing Improvement and Philosophy
00:07:04
Speaker
It's ironic that you just published the second edition of your book because I recently published the second edition of my book, Marketing Spark, which unofficially I advertise as being fewer spelling mistakes, better grammar.
00:07:19
Speaker
So when I picked up the book with the thought of writing a second edition, I read it through and I thought, usually as a writer, six months later, you're like, oh my God, how did I ever write this? This is terrible. And so I read it through and I was like, this is not so bad. There's actually something here. But then when I started to go through paragraph by paragraph and sentence by sentence, then I got into the, oh my God, how did I ever write that?
00:07:44
Speaker
level and hopefully it's better written. Well, that's the perils of being a writer is that everything you publish soon afterwards, it's terrible. You look at it and you cannot believe that you wrote it because at the time you think it's great stuff. But when you actually reread it and reread it and you get feedback, you recognize that there's so many room, so much room for improvement. But I think I think we overanalyze our own writing. We're overly sensitive to our own writing. So when I did the second edition of the book,
00:08:15
Speaker
It actually was exciting because it allowed me to take a fresh perspective, a new approach to the book. I didn't get away from the book's overall philosophy and a lot of the content was the same, but I did find it interesting to have a second chance at life again. It's like having a near-death experience and then you survive that and you go, well, this time I'm going to do things differently. And that's what I found exciting about the rewrite.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, and hopefully the second edition, it is focused, it is on just B2B, it is updated. Like in the first edition at the end of those tactical chapters, I listed some of the top marketing software for that particular tactic. And I've just stripped those out because there's just too many good ones and it changes way too fast. Chat, GPT and AI are happening now.
00:09:06
Speaker
The rate of change has just exploded. So that became something that made no sense at all in the current environment.
Three Stages of Marketing Framework: Assets, Data, Brand
00:09:14
Speaker
You've hinted at the bullseye framework and obviously it underpins the book and your philosophical approach to marketing. I'd love you to walk me through the framework, the key pillars of it and how you think it's different from some of the other marketing frameworks that are being evangelized on LinkedIn and other places.
00:09:34
Speaker
So the bullseye marketing framework has three stages to it, just like a bullseye. You start in the center of the bullseye. And the bullseye is where you take advantage of what I call marketing assets that most companies have, but many companies don't take full advantage of.
00:09:48
Speaker
You get a lot of traffic to your website, but if your website doesn't have good messaging, people come and I see this all the time. You're a positioning guy. You see this all the time. There's nothing that explains even just simply what it is you do in a way that people would remember or how you're different from anyone else. So nailing that positioning, having conversion offers and opportunities on the website and optimizing those, because if you don't do that before you start your other marketing,
00:10:17
Speaker
You're just trying to fill a bucket that's full of holes. All the time when I work with small and mid-sized companies, I'll say to them, how many email contacts do you have? And they say, oh, we have 10,000, we have 20,000, maybe more. And I say, so how often do you send out an email around the holidays? A hugely impactful channel that costs almost nothing to use, that should be used regularly, and they're not taking advantage of that asset that they have.
00:10:45
Speaker
Things like selling more to existing customers, not just looking for new logos, having better collaboration between sales and marketing. All of these are things, mistakes that I've seen companies make over and over again, not taking advantage of those. I had a client which was a size, like a $200 million software company, and the head of marketing told me it took a week or two for sales to follow up on a lead from marketing.
00:11:12
Speaker
It's like, well, that's a dead lead. That's wasted that collaboration between sales and marketing. That's critically important. So all of those costs very little or nothing to implement. And they can have significant impact in just a matter of a few months. And that for, for a new marketing leader, for a consultant, that kind of impact and for the company gets people's attention.
00:11:39
Speaker
You say, for very little money, we start to have some results.
Long-term Brand Building vs. Immediate Sales
00:11:43
Speaker
Then you go to the second ring of the bullseye, which is using intent data to sell to people who want to buy now. And that's often search ads, but it may be your first party data from your own website and other materials like your emails, or it may even be third party intent data. Companies like Bombora or TechTarget or others who are accumulating intent data from hundreds of sites.
00:12:09
Speaker
But, and this is very key, is that probably only 5% of your market is interested in buying at any time. The vast majority of any company's market is either not interested in what they're selling or has a vendor and is not looking to change.
00:12:29
Speaker
And so that's where the third phase of, of bullseye marketing comes into play. And that's in the long run, the most impactful, which is building your brand and what's called mental availability. And this is a concept which most marketers don't talk about, but it's critically important, which is that people will think of you, this goes beyond awareness. They will think of your brand when they are ready to buy something in your category.
00:12:58
Speaker
And in fact, from the experience I've had and the research I've seen, probably half or more of deals, the customer does not look at more than one vendor, two at the most. So if you have that top of mind position, if you've established that mental availability, you have a huge number of opportunities in the future in which you have no competition.
00:13:28
Speaker
and are very easy to close. So let me give you an example. After I had a marketing agency for a dozen years, which I pivoted into a SaaS company, and after I sold it, I was VP of business development at another marketing agency. And the first call I got, which makes it very memorable, was a guy who said, I've been following you for like three years. I've seen your CEO talk. I read your blog. I really like your approach. We're finally ready to do something. So let's talk.
00:13:59
Speaker
That was an easy deal to close. And that wasn't because I was a brilliant salesperson. That was because of the marketing that the company had done before I was even on board that had established that mental availability. And that happens all the time. I sometimes refer to it as kind of the dark market. It's the part of your market, the opportunities that you're never even aware of.
00:14:26
Speaker
And that's the biggest opportunity. And that's why the third phase of bullseye marketing, which is probably the least appreciated is in the long run, the most important. It's an interesting take because we live in an instant gratification world. We live in a marketing world in which people, entrepreneurs, CEOs expect a direct correlation between if I do X,
00:14:54
Speaker
then why is gonna happen right away? Couple of thoughts here. One is how do you marry intent data with a lot of the activity that is happening on the dark web and the dark social and the other sort of dark places that you mentioned where you can't see what's happening.
Balancing Brand and Lead Generation
00:15:15
Speaker
There's no direct attribution happening. What's the balance between the stuff that you know, which is around intent and the stuff that you don't know?
00:15:25
Speaker
So yeah, one of the things that's happened in the last 10 years plus is this explosion of martech tools. And Scott Brinker has documented his infographic in 2011 had a few hundred companies in it. Now there's over 10,000 and that has created each one of them more or less provides a ton of data, a ton of analytics.
00:15:51
Speaker
And it has produced what some people call short-termism. It's what's this campaign doing for me this month or this quarter at the most. And that's unfortunate because if you go back in marketing 50 years, it was all about the big idea. If you read David Ogilvie and other masters of marketing, they understand brand. And so what the research shows is that you need a 50-50 balance roughly between your brand
00:16:21
Speaker
and your lead gen marketing. And that the brand marketing actually makes your lead gen more impactful. So in the book, I quote Jaleh Rizai, who was the CMO of Gusto when it grew from 500 to 50,000 customers. And you know, Gusto is a big online payments platform. And she says that when she was the CMO of Gusto,
00:16:49
Speaker
Her brand ads, her brand campaigns didn't produce hardly any leads or sales directly. But whenever she would stop the brand marketing, six months later, her customer acquisition costs would go through the roof and her lead gen performance would tank. And so she learned that she had to, even for a startup, she had to spend at least 20% of her budget
00:17:16
Speaker
on brand to support the direct response. So she had very good proof of it in a way that because she was working at a very large scale, she had very good proof of it. Unfortunately, for smaller companies, often they don't have enough data to prove it. There's a degree of going on faith, but there's also ways in which you can see the impact that you're having. You see it in organic
00:17:45
Speaker
search traffic to your site because the biggest search term for most companies is their name. And so if your organic search traffic is going up, it's because more people are searching on your name. You see a big surge in links to your site and backlinks. You get anecdotal information from your sales team. I had the VP of sales at a company I was working with who told me later he was generous or gracious enough not to tell me at the beginning that he thought my
00:18:14
Speaker
ideas were terrible. But three months later, when he was getting a lot of leads, he said all these enterprise companies we want to get in the door of are saying, I'm seeing you everywhere. You guys really have it going on. I figure I had to talk to you and find out what's what you're about. So there's a lot of different ways
00:18:35
Speaker
that you can, let me tell you an analogy that I use. So if a person exercises, and you look fit, you look like someone who exercises, if a person exercises 30 minutes a day, five times a week, there's a ton of evidence that that has tremendous impact on your health. People tend to live longer, they get sick less. If they do get sick, it's not nearly as severe, et cetera, et cetera. But you can't say,
00:19:04
Speaker
I went running last Tuesday and that's what made me healthy. It's because you do it week after week, month after month, year after year, that you have that effect. Now at the same time, there's other things like getting your COVID vaccine shot, getting a stent if you have a heart attack, getting radiation therapy if you have cancer, which are tremendously impactful in the short term. They may save your life, but they don't produce long-term health and wellness.
00:19:33
Speaker
And so you need both of those. They work very differently. One is very measurable, but they are both very important. It's an interesting approach because as someone who leans on the brand side of the house, who I do a lot of work around brand positioning messaging, trying to figure out how to take that strategic narrative and amplify it to the world.
Continuous Marketing Effort: Economic Considerations
00:20:00
Speaker
It's a very frustrating landscape to me right now because there is so much focus on tactical execution. Many CEOs and entrepreneurs are, for lots of good reasons, obsessed with lead gen and sales and that their tolerance or appetite for brand building has been reduced. And if you look what happened in 2020, 2021,
00:20:25
Speaker
A lot of B2B SaaS companies, B2B companies were flush. The market was roaring ahead. There was lots of marketing dollars, lots of venture capital being raised. So it was easy to justify a brand positioning exercise or a brand awareness focused campaigns. Now marketing budgets have been pulled back. Some companies have
00:20:46
Speaker
reduce their marketing staffs in a big way. I think that a lot of companies are cutting off their noses despite their face because they've, they're not doing brand building. They're not focused on brand building at all. And my take is that's a major mistake in the short term. It'll save you some money, but in the longterm it's going to cost you and you'll lose out to companies that recognize that brand is important and that you have to continually.
00:21:11
Speaker
And going back to your exercise related analogy, you have to continually invest in brand. Otherwise you're undermining your business. Yeah, totally. And there's some mistakes that just keep getting repeated. And one of them is cutting your marketing during recessions. It's well established that the companies that maintain their marketing during recessions come out with bigger market share. And it's cheaper to keep it going during a recession, typically than
00:21:39
Speaker
it is during those flush times when everybody is marketing and bidding on ad space and so forth. That story is told again and again. You have empirical evidence that says that if you continue to invest in marketing, even when down periods, when things rebound, you're going to be better positioned than if you pull back that if you see marketing as a discretionary area of investment. Yet
00:22:04
Speaker
Many, many companies, first thing, first gut reaction to a slowdown is let's pull back on marketing. Let's get rid of some marketing people. And history repeats itself over and over again. Why does that happen? Is it just the emotional reaction as opposed to logic? Yeah, sure. We were talking about the value of exercise in the long-term, but the data I've seen is that only about 20% of people do exercise regularly to that point where it's going to have that great long-term effect.
00:22:33
Speaker
So most people are not rational. They are driven by short-term comfort rather than long-term. They're not going to defer gratification. That's just the way of the world.
00:22:46
Speaker
I think this is the first podcast that has combined my two biggest interests, marketing and physical exercise. And I have to be honest with you is that physical exercise is a big part of my life. I spend lots of time in front of my computer, lots of time consuming information digitally.
00:23:04
Speaker
I'm overly obsessed with the internet and LinkedIn. And I think for a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of business people like ourselves is that you have to have a balance. You have to allow yourself to disconnect from the wired world. At the same time, you need to invest in what's happening online and the marketplace is evolving so fast, so quickly. And it's a nice little segue into what I want to talk to you about next, which is this
00:23:31
Speaker
marketing landscape that is troubling and fascinating and exciting and terrifying at the same time.
Chat GPT's Impact on Marketing Strategies
00:23:39
Speaker
And you could argue that a year ago, it started with the economic downturn, but since November with the emergence of chat GPT and the fact that it put AI in front of people tangibly, I just feel that
00:23:56
Speaker
It's a whole new frontier. And a lot of marketers are trying to figure out how do I adapt? What do I do strategically and tactically? And do you have any thoughts about how chat GPT has disrupted the marketing landscape? And how does a marketer move forward? How should we think strategically and tactically so that we're
00:24:20
Speaker
Staying abreast of technology and that we're not simply relying on the things and the skills that we've depended on before. Loaded question. First of all, I don't think it's a whole new landscape. I think that chat GP, you're familiar with the Gardner hype cycle and chat GPT is at the top of the hype cycle. It got there faster than anything ever has. It's probably at a higher point in the hype cycle than anything ever has been.
00:24:50
Speaker
And fine, but the fundamentals of marketing never changed. So when I give a talk on marketing, I often start with a picture of the cover of a book called Scientific Advertising. And it's a book that sold millions of copies. It gets great reviews. It's highly recommended by top marketers and such. It was written in 1923. And because marketing,
00:25:19
Speaker
and positioning is certainly part of this, at its foundation, never changes. Marketing is about understanding your customer, understanding your market, bringing to market products that will benefit them, that will appeal to them, communicating why and motivating them to be interested in checking it out and buying it. That's at the essence of marketing.
00:25:40
Speaker
All the channels that channel explosion of the last 15 years, that's just other ways to get to do that fundamental role of marketing, that fundamental purpose of marketing. And 30 years ago, there were maybe eight major channels. Now there are dozens and seemingly a new one every year. So chat GPT to me, it doesn't change anything because most marketers
00:26:09
Speaker
were not strategic to begin with. They were too focused on short term. They weren't concerned enough with brand. They didn't understand this balance. Mark Ritsen wrote about this a few weeks ago where he said some survey of agencies I think was that the majority of accounts didn't even have readable creative briefs when they were bidding on doing work. So that hasn't changed.
00:26:36
Speaker
Good marketers who understand strategy, who understand positioning, who understand brand, who understand that the most important marketing is on the emotional side, not on writing second rate blog posts, which is what I see coming out of chat GPT. They're still going to be doing the most valuable and successful work. Chat GPT will accelerate in the short run. Who knows what it will be like in three years or whatever.
00:27:05
Speaker
It may dramatically change content creation, but I haven't seen it understanding the customer better or developing marketing strategies or positioning better than a person does. I'm in the same camp as you. I believe that chat GPT has ignited an arms war, a marketing, a Martek arms war right now. Companies that can successfully leverage chat GPT.
00:27:35
Speaker
They can use prompts and sophisticated and interesting ways are going to be able to gain an advantage. I read a LinkedIn post. Somebody said, well, our company is using chat GPT to write SEO optimized content and our traffic has risen from zero to 750,000 views in the last few months. And he was obviously advertising the power of the platform.
00:27:58
Speaker
that he works for, but at the same time he highlighted that he's got a short term advantage. And my comment to him was that, yes, that's fabulous. Congratulations. But that's going to disappear. That competitive edge is going to disappear because everybody will arm themselves with the same tools. And then what happens? What happens if every single company can produce high quality? And I put that in, in quotation marks, high quality content.
00:28:22
Speaker
at scale, then we're all going to be selling the same, same flavor of ice cream. And to your point, I think that brand matters. I think that strategy matters. It may not be top of the, of the heap right now for many CEOs and entrepreneurs, but I think in the long run, the best brands are to have the strongest, the best companies have the strongest brands, the Nikes, the Patagonias, the Amazons is that people remember them regardless of the kind of marketing that they're doing. And that's just my point, my view of the world right now.
00:28:52
Speaker
Well, and that marketing, that brand marketing comes a from a great customer experience and chat GPT is not going to change that. And B it comes from brand marketing, which is essentially based on emotion, not on logic.
Emotional vs. Logical Marketing Approaches
00:29:09
Speaker
There's a fundamental difference between the. Brand marketing brand messaging and lead gen messaging lead gen messaging tends to be very logical.
00:29:19
Speaker
10% off, download our white paper, sign up for our webinar. You either do that instantly or you forget about that ad 10 seconds later. Brand marketing is emotional. It has characters, it has humor, it has situations. You probably remember TV commercials from when you were a kid. Of course, yeah. I used to watch a lot of TV when I was a kid. Now, not so much, but... Right.
00:29:44
Speaker
Every time I asked someone that they're like, Oh yeah, I remember TV commercials from when I was a kid. That's great. Great brand marketing. There's this meme in content among the content marketers where they say, when you put up a great blog post that, that that's an evergreen that will get you traffic forever. But the moment you stop advertising, it stops working. No, great advertising works for decades because it's in your mind and it sticks with you.
00:30:10
Speaker
But there are some people who say you can't even have the same team doing your brand marketing and your lead gen marketing or your performance marketing because the skills are so fundamentally different. And because creativity is such a central part of brand marketing and not a central part of lead gen marketing.
00:30:33
Speaker
Marketing world fascinates me because it continues to evolve and change. And just when you're getting complacent and fat and happy, it all shifts on you. I think it's really interesting right now. I want to thank you for your perspective and your insight into the marketing landscape. And thank you for telling me about Bullseye
Recommended Marketing Resources and Conclusion
00:30:50
Speaker
Marketing. Sounds like a great book for any entrepreneur or marketer who is looking to raise their game or take a different approach to marketing.
00:30:59
Speaker
One final question, can you recommend a book and a podcast for our audience? I will certainly recommend the Marketing Book Podcast because Douglas does a terrific job, one book and one author a week. And I can tell you from experience, he reads everyone from cover to cover because you go on there and he's like, now on page 179, you said, like, whoa.
00:31:26
Speaker
Let me see if I can remember why I wrote that. So the marketing book podcast is a great podcast. A book, an author that I like is Morgan Hounsell. I don't know if you're familiar with him. I am not. But he wrote one of my favorite essays, which is called Universal Laws of the World.
00:31:49
Speaker
And so just start with that. It's a great essay and he has like these 11 laws of the world. And then he has a book called The Psychology of Money, which is very good and has a new book coming out in a few months. But for example, one of the 11 laws of the world is that miracles will happen. That's the first one. And it's because he says there are seven, now 8 billion people in the world. One in a billion things will happen.
00:32:20
Speaker
I'm someone who plays poker a lot, which has given me a very intuitive sense of probability and improbability. So, and you see these sort of one in a thousand things happening in poker and you're like, yep, that happens. And it happens in the real world in many fields too. So he's a very interesting author and the psychology of money and that, that essay on the universal laws of the world are, are both very good reads.
00:32:49
Speaker
One final question. Where can people learn more about you and what you do? LouieGadima.com and the book's available on Amazon. And of course I'm on LinkedIn and less than before, but still on Twitter. I would love to communicate with people. Thanks Louie. And thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, rate it and subscribe via Apple podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
00:33:17
Speaker
and share via social media. If you're a B2B SaaS company looking for more sales and leads but struggling to do marketing that makes an impact, we should talk. I use a three-part methodology to diagnose, fix, and optimize your marketing strategically and tactically. Reach out to me via email, mark at markevans.ca, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you soon.