Transcript
Speaker: Sup ghouls and ghosts and welcome to another episode of A Horror Shared. We hope you enjoyed part one of Freaks 1932 and now it's time for part two. So the poster. Yeah. For Freaks. I don't know if you have the poster. Visually I can remember having a yellow background.
Speaker: If you get the poster up just because I did want to talk about the poster of it, I guess there are multiple posters actually. The yellow one where you have Todd Browning's production, Freaks in the Red Writing,
Speaker: Yeah. And then you've got Hercules and Cleopatra on the left. Cleopatra kissing hands. Oh, no, no, no. There's the one where it's everyone. Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. And all the freaks are on the right -hand side of the poster. The one that I saw come up more often, maybe this is just different search engines, was a yellow poster. Hercules is on the left. Oh, I see the one you're on there. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: and the tagline at the top. And a full grown woman, truly love a midget. Yeah, kind of full grown woman, truly love a midget. Is such a ouch of a poster. So there's that. Also, the names that we have on this poster. Wallace Ford is Frozo. Leila Himes is Venus.
Speaker: Olga Baklanova is Cleopatra. And Roscoe is Roscoe. Did Roscoe play himself? Yeah, Roscoe was a clown in real life. Oh, that's why when I say in his name, and I thought of his name Roscoe, I'm sure there's a Roscoe of something. Yeah, no, no, no, he was a clown. Yeah, so Roscoe is playing himself. Very important to note.
Speaker: Was he a shitty person as well? I don't know. I don't know. I didn't really look into Roscoe too much, but very important to note, none of those names are the Hans, Frida. No, they're all the able -bodied people. So that's very important to note. The thing about this film is I think the thing about this film is you're meant to question who is the real freak.
Speaker: okay is what everybody that that's the thing that every that's like everyone always says who are the real villains who are the real freaks are the villains because again okay so right at the end the shots of them moving through the rain yeah
Speaker: when they go in to get Hercules. Those shots are iconic. Yes. Those are the shots that I think when people think of the film freaks, you either think of the final shot of Cleopatra, or you think of the people moving through the rain. Those are the takeaways of the film. Or I know as well when I googled to find the film,
Speaker: One of the first things that came up was a YouTube clip of that marriage table scene as well. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goo boo gab, the goo boo gab. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are probably the scenes. But the shots of them moving through the rain, they are the threat. Yeah.
Speaker: So again, we've been saying, hey, these are good, these are people. But at the end of the day, when the horror movie wants to horror, and we can get into it, is it horror film? When the horror movie wants to horror, it is the freaks that are that horror. When it wants to bring the scary elements out, then they use the freaks to do that. Yeah. Instead of the
Speaker: able bodied people like Cleopatra and Hercules, who are the real villains. Yeah, 100%. They are the villains of the film. But so much of the fear, like, if you look at the actual plot of it, the fact that it's all told through flashback, it's saying, oh my god, what if you became a freak? Yeah.
Speaker: That's where the fear comes from. And that's fucked up. It is very fucked up. So, you know, you can say as much as it has these nice scenes. The overarching thing of the film is like, no, you, to become a freak is such a horror.
Speaker: Yeah, which is not okay. Yeah, it's saying Jesus Christ, imagine being one of them, Yark, is what it's saying. So it's, it is a very, it's icky. It's very icky. So another thing about this film is it was made, it was released in 1932.
Speaker: right before World War II. Yes, which is important but also it, oh no no no yeah because the context of freaks and and World War II is very important because it was at a time where many unable people were being such heavily prejudiced on and were
Speaker: being killed more soon to be killed yeah eugenics yeah i need to talk about the scroll damn we have a lot to get through the scroll yeah i didn't get the scroll when i watched it so i don't know what it says scroll where it but it mostly is what the guy says
Speaker: It's very similar in terms of context. It's like an opening scroll saying, it's like, hey people, some people are born with abnormalities and some people are born with disabilities. And, and then it kind of pats itself on the back too much and says, and it may shock you, but throughout history, these people have not been treated kindly. Yeah. And it's like, they're still not being treated kindly. No, it's still going on.
Speaker: But yeah, it's given all of these examples throughout history of like, you know, in this time, if people were born with this kind of disability, they would be left out on the street and they would be left to die in all of this. And it's very negative on that. It's very like, this is wrong because they are people.
Speaker: Yeah. So again, it's setting the film up in a, hey, did you know that people are people and we need to treat them with kindness? Yeah, so it's almost setting the film up as in, hey, this is people are people, doesn't matter their abilities, they are still people. Yeah, doesn't matter their looks. But this film will kind of go against.
Speaker: Well, it says like, it's kind of saying this film is a story about these people. Yeah, okay. It seems to be kind of like a, and again, the fact that I was gonna say, I don't know, it kind of gives the impression that it's like a warning. Hey, you're about to see some people. Like you get warnings in front of films or shows now.
Speaker: It feels less of a trigger warning. It feels more of a kind of... PSA. Yeah. It kind of gives the tone of, hi, you're about to see some people who might look very different to you. They are people. It's kind of like you possibly haven't seen
Speaker: a woman with no arms. You possibly haven't seen a bearded woman, you know, you possibly haven't seen these people. This film will contain those people. They are people.
Speaker: So I'm kind of watching this opening scroll like, okay, this is good. It's progressive, especially for the time. And I also think it is good to have it at the start of a film. Yeah, especially a film like this. So then you have that belief going into the film. Yeah. You have that realisation. Oh, they are just people as you go into the film.
Speaker: And, I mean, especially like, I think there is a somewhat human element of, I was actually having a discussion with someone the other day about, is it human to have fear when you see someone who doesn't look like you? Because we were having like a discussion of racism.
Speaker: Sometimes working in a school, these kids just draw me into discussions and I'm like, you are meant to be doing your work, but okay, let's discuss this. You know, she was saying like, you know, it's very human to see someone who doesn't look like you and to be scared.
Speaker: And I guess that is true. There's that scientific thing that when you see a face, you try to see how that face relates to you. Yeah, you try and see yourself in that. Yeah.
Speaker: Because then they are part of your circle, you know, you have this idea that, you know. And you can relate, you can see. Yeah, like way back in the cavemen eras, we were, you know, probably mostly living with our own family. Yeah, it was nits of family circles. Yeah. So you'd be living with people who look very similar to you. So if you see someone who doesn't look similar to you, there's the idea of, oh, you're an outsider.
Speaker: It's like that's, you take a step back, you're taking it back. But it's that, I think that that scroll was from what I think is putting in that, hey, you might be taken back. You might feel a bit of fear, but don't live in that. Move beyond it. And I think it's really good that it has it at the start because it's kind of like, you don't want people to spend too long of a film going,
Speaker: yeah it's that thing because that's not what the film's supposed to be about yeah and there is also the idea that you know um in my research of this film because i did want to do a lot of research in this film because like i said i think it is very important um there's lots of arguments for actually being ableist is good
Speaker: Because of course there are, because people suck. It's this idea that it is natural to feel revulsion. Again, like this is me quoting, like not quoting, I don't have the quotes, but this is me explaining what the idea is. It's natural to feel revulsion if somebody is born deformed. Because, you know, on an evolutionary side,
Speaker: you want strong babies. So if your baby is born without legs, how are they to survive? It's a survival thing. It's a survival technique that if someone is born different, less able, you know, it happens in nature where like
Speaker: like a mother will like yeah cast out their cough like a cow or you know things like that it's it's that thing of you will not survive to adulthood and I'm gonna cut my losses mm -hmm I think that's a stupid argument in this day and age yeah because especially now there's so much technological development there's so much that and you've come to
Speaker: You should have come to realise by this day and age that no, they are they're just disabled, especially given the right resources. Yeah, yeah, like, like, like, we're not hunter gatherers. No, anymore. It's okay if someone is born without food can literally be delivered to the doorknob. Yeah, like, it's absolutely fine. So that's the argument why ableism is good.
Speaker: So basically, I do agree that ableism is inbuilt in our genetic code, I guess. Because as much as we are living in this modern age, evolution takes years. We do still have that hunter -gatherer brain. But why are we allowing ourselves to live in it, essentially? We have the tools to move beyond that.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, like, if we're gonna say that we're not animals anymore, okay, why are we allowing ourselves to have thoughts like this to a primal?
Speaker: Yeah, why are we allowing ourselves to act like animals if we don't believe we are any more evolutionary wise? Yeah, so that's why I think yes, probably ableism is genetically inbuilt, but there's this good quote that I remember. It's still, even though it may be genetically inbuilt, it still does not make it okay.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. And it is one of those things where I remember seeing this I think is literally I'm quoting a tumblr text post. Somebody said they feel really bad about they will like, have thoughts that are problematic. Yeah.
Speaker: they will feel so guilty about that and then someone replied to that okay think of it this way the first thought you have is how society has trained you to think yeah it's what the societal norm is the second thought you have is how you want to think yeah so you have that progression i think it's okay as well if you allow yourself to sit in that thought analyze it and be like yeah no this is
Speaker: how we flow. Yeah. And so and so that that's why I'm saying like, if we accept ableism as a genetic part, okay, that's a thought. We don't need it anymore. Yeah. Because like we said, we're not living in caves having to go out and hunt and gather. Yeah, we are in a modern age. Yeah, where we're not daily fighting off these big q channels.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. So, I can't remember how we got onto that. This is the thing, I think all of these things about this film, it's really good discussions. It's just how, yes. So this film came out in 1932. That's where we came from.
Speaker: which means it's pre, because we were talking about eugenics. Yeah, on the wall. And then we were talking about the scroll. We followed the trailer. Yeah. The scroll. So it starts off saying you're going to see people who have abnormalities. And again, it uses the word abnormalities a lot, which I prefer to deformed. Yeah. Because deformed is definitely negative.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a lot. Deformed is a term that's been used a lot as a derogatory term. Yeah. Whereas abnormal just means not the norm. Yeah. And there are abnormalities. So whenever it used the term abnormalities, I was like, okay, nice. I see you freaks. I see you. And yeah, like I said, it's, it's a lot of kind of, um, Hey, these are people who don't look like you. That's okay.
Speaker: And then it says, this film, this story is a story that won't be told for much longer due to the advances of modern science and teratology, as modern science and teratology is rapidly eliminating such blunders of nature from the world. Eugenics has entered the chat. Literally.
Speaker: And like I said, this whole school is going... I did not expect it to go bad. Yes, this whole school is going and it's like, these are people that we need to treat with... And it's saying, you know, these are people that we need to treat with kindness because there's a hard life because people are not kind to them. Yeah, people are giving them extra difficulties to deal with.
Speaker: You know, they have difficulties in that the world is not built for them. And then they have difficulties because people are not kind to them. And we need to show them kindness. And I'm like, okay, nice. And then it's like, luckily in the future, they're just not going to exist. There's that total flips, like the flip of a coin.
Speaker: I mean because the thing is eugenics is something that I think is commonly thought of as negative. Obviously some people are pro eugenics still but the thing to remember about 1932 is eugenics is still a good thing at this point.
Speaker: people are still, wow, this is great. We're going to have a entirely fit human race. And when I say fit, I mean, you know, strong and able -bodied. And also white. Yeah, white, strong, able -bodied, straight. Eugenics, people who are pro eugenics. There are people who are pro eugenics now who say like, no, it's just about being healthy. And it's not like,
Speaker: Like, there are people, like, again, I did a lot of research this episode, there are people who are still pro -eugenics and they say, you know, being disabled is a hard life and so we wouldn't wish that on anyone and say, wouldn't it be better if, essentially, wouldn't it be better if they didn't exist? Not like we're gonna kill them, but just like - But it should be the person.
Speaker: deciding, not being decided for. Yeah, and it's just that thing of like, if we just stop disabled people being born, then it's okay. Because when we're not killing anyone, we're just not, they're not, they're just not existing anymore. And they will say that it's not to do with race and it's, you know, anyone can be healthy. Yeah, it's like there was a country
Speaker: I can't remember the name of the country, so I'm not going to say. But they were scanning children, like fetuses, pregnant mothers, for Down syndrome as a possibility. I think this is within this century. And if they came back positive or are highly likely that the child would have Down syndrome, then they would be forced to get an abortion.
Speaker: They would be forced to terminate their pregnancy. They wouldn't be given a choice. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know if this is in England, but I know in countries where abortion is legal, because there's a time limit. Yeah, it's 24 weeks. Yeah, in England, yeah. Yeah, in England, 24 weeks.
Speaker: But the time limit for aborting your fetus if it has Down syndrome is much later. Yeah. Like even in places where it's not forced, you are allowed the option until very late in the pregnancy. Yeah, where it becomes more reverse, they do it so it becomes more of a still both, but it's still killing it. Yeah, it is an abortion. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So yes, that opening scroll is just dives head first. Yeah, it has some flips. Okay, so again, it's from the 1930s. And this is in a time where
Speaker: I was listening to a podcast where somebody was talking about somebody who, there's this woman who was like a very cool feminist from the 1930s, like early 1930s. And she was quite pro eugenics. But in a kind of like, yeah, like in a healthy way. Yeah, like, I know there's some people who are pro in a healthy way for end of life care.
Speaker: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing is, and yeah, this person in this podcast made this point. People who were pro -Eugenics pre World War II hadn't fought Eugenics through to its logical conclusion.
Speaker: Yeah. Because you can say, oh, wouldn't it be great if like, the human race was healthier and like, you know, you know, less people were born with abnormalities and we didn't have that risk as much. You can say that in a very positive way. Wouldn't it be better if the human race was healthier? End of sentence.
Speaker: And that is technically pro -Eugenics, if you're looking at that. But the logical conclusion is, you know, the Nazis. Let's round up. Let's round up everyone and film. Yeah, let's round up the non -desorables. Yeah, it wasn't even people who were born with disabilities, but people who also became disabled through life.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, given it, like the First World War had happened, people had lost limbs. Yeah, there would have been a lot of injuries resulting from that. They found themselves in the disabled category. Yeah. And then suddenly, you know, it's
Speaker: Yeah, so it's eugenics is, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say eugenics, bad. It's that thing that this person said in his podcast, early 1930s, people who were pro eugenics hadn't seen it come to its logical conclusion. Yeah, they didn't see what it would lead to. So it's a little less murderous. It's a little more thought experiment. Yeah.
Speaker: That's the opening scroll, essentially. And also it just says things like they have no power to control their lot, which is patronizing. Yeah, and also ensures that hive mind. Yes. Yeah. No, no, no, they're not as in they're lost in life. Oh, they're lost in life. Yeah. Like they're still very patronizing, yeah. It's very kind of like,
Speaker: always poor little dears. They're born in this way and they can't do anything. But yeah, but you see them overcome these obstacles. Like there was one woman who had no arms, but you could see her, she was using her feet instead to do things. She drank to eat.
Speaker: Yeah, she's the one who, when the bearded lady has her baby, she lifts the blankets. Yeah, she lifts the blankets so Frozo could see the baby. The opening scroll is interesting. I think it's good overall. I think it basically sums up how I feel about this film. It's good overall, it's patronising at times, and it has a sprinkling of yikes. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, no, that's a very good summary. So what I was going to say about 1932, like I am sorry, like this is going to be a long one. I just, yeah, like I do keep saying, like I think it is a very important one to do properly. When we were like literally first talking about
Speaker: Yeah, when we first talked about doing this and you were saying about doing freaks, then you immediately said this is one that has got to have a lot of context for it and a lot of research needs to be done for it. So hit me with that research. Okay, so do you know about the Hayes Code? No, I do not. The Hayes Code was a basically moral guidelines
Speaker: Um, that were... The Hays Code was this self -imposed industry set of guidelines for all motion pictures that released between 1934 and 1968. Okay. So, I'm gonna read you a bunch of things that the Hays Code didn't like. Okay, do's and don'ts and be careful.
Speaker: No, there's no do's, it's only don'ts. These are the don'ts and be careful. Okay. Pointed profanity includes words like God, Lord, Jesus, and Christ, blasphemously. You use blasphemously, you can't use hell, son of a bitch, like gout, like G -A -W -D, because obviously it's just meant to be, dam, and any profanity.
Speaker: Anything like nudity, suggestive nudity, even in silhouette form was risky. Anything to do with drugs, sexual perversion, gay, and interracial. Anything to do with white slavery,
Speaker: Oh, that's a word that I do not know the meaning of. Misengineation. I've not come across that word. Oh, misengineation is interracial. Like, yeah. Sexual relations or marriage between people who are considered to be members of different races.
Speaker: Um, sexual hygiene or venereal diseases, um, scenes of actual childbirth or even in silhouette, sexual sex, children's sex organs. Hey, I'm down with that not being in film. Um, ridicule of the clergy or, um, and use of firearms, a man and woman in bed together.
Speaker: um any scene where a woman is being seductive that it's it's such a long list i think oh this one's just hilarious excessive or lustful kissing particularly when one character is a heavy criminal we don't want to see criminals excessively or lustfully kissing so that's what the haze code didn't like
Speaker: And that's what was put, so the Hays Code was put into an act. It was enacted in 1934 and films essentially could not have that. You know how all films as like separate beds for like old films, separate beds for like husband and wife. That's because of the Hays Code. That was a bunch of common thing. The Hays Code, you just, like I said, man and a woman in bed can't show that.
Speaker: I didn't realise it was a Hays Code thing. That's a Hays Code thing. Oh. So, there's like this idea of pre -code films.
Speaker: The thing is, films from the 1930s to 1934s, films were pretty risky. There's a film, and again, I haven't actually seen this film personally, but I know of it. There's a film where it's literally like lesbians from the 1930s.
Speaker: I think she's, it's like the daughter of Dracula is what it's called or something. And she is a vampire who is seducing these human women and drinking their blood. And it's always very, I mean, all vampires are always sexy.
Speaker: All those scenes are always very sexy, and that is a film that could not come out post -code. It's a thing, pre -code films are... This is a film that has knives, it has guns, it has poison, it has... I would say that that was lustful, or excessive kissing. Yeah, there was some lustful moments. Frozo and Venus, and in fact Cleo and Hercules.
Speaker: Yeah, another example of like a film that couldn't come out. And I guess I could go on into this when I do the film, but I'll mention it now, because I don't know if I'll remember. Frankenstein, the original Frankenstein. That's a film that could not have come out postcode. Because that bit where Victor has made Frankenstein, and he's talking about like how he is the power of God.
Speaker: Yeah, you can do that. So yeah, this is a pre code film. And I think it really shows because like the amount of kind of I mean, um, and this is I guess a perfect segue into talking about the actors. The woman who didn't have her arms. She is using her feet, which means that she's shown a lot of leg. Yeah.
Speaker: And that is, that could not have happened post -code. No, no ankles. No ankles. I mean, she's showing Fi. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's the Hayes code. And I think again, like pre -code, the fact that it's pre -code is integral to the context of it. Um, I've been talking about how I'm going to talk about the actors a lot. So do you want to? Yeah. Yes. So.
Speaker: I wanted to talk about the actors who play the freaks because we mentioned that they do not have any poster
Speaker: Like, they don't have their names on their poster. No, they're not advertised. No. And even on IMDb, like, like in the film, they never get names like... Yeah, like Halfboy. Halfboy. The woman who is using her feet. She's literally called Armless Girl in IMDb. Yeah, and you've got Half Woman, Half Man. It's as if they don't deserve a name.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. The conjoined twins are on IMDB as Siamese twin. Yes. So I just wanted to finish up. I mean, we'll talk about what we think of the end, but I just wanted to kind of finish up by giving the actors a little bit of edu.
Speaker: Yeah, they just give them a little shout out being like, hey. Obviously, I don't have information on all of them. There's a car alarm going. I can't hear her. If you can hear her, I'm sorry. I can't be bothered to pause. I want to talk about these actors. Obviously, I wasn't able to find information on all of them, but I will at least give you all of their names because that's the best that I can do.
Speaker: Johnny, sort of half boy, was played by Johnny Eck. That's what I'm saying. Lovely name. He actually, he basically was born with, he does have legs, but they just never grew. They were like, I can't, I think it said something like they would twist it in the womb.
Speaker: They just never grew. So he essentially, and he actually in the end, he always covered them. So he didn't really, yeah, he didn't have legs to himself. He would often, how did he describe it? Sorry, I did research for them.
Speaker: I thought I remembered this quote that's why hey don't ever think you'll remember it always write it down word to the wise he described himself as snapped off at the waist
Speaker: was how he saw himself and he had a twin brother who was able -bodied and so he was 0 .43 meters
Speaker: But it was like this thing of... He could always see... He would have been five foot seven inches because his brother was five foot seven inches. He had that kind of...
Speaker: few. Yeah, and he had this famous, there's a picture of him, if you Google Johnny Eck, it's probably like the first one that comes up of him doing a one handed handstand with his other hand directly up. And it's, that was like his famous kind of
Speaker: his show. He was like taught by his older sister Caroline. She taught both him and his brother Robert until they were seven at home. He actually he could walk before Robert could stand.
Speaker: because he's on his hands. So I guess there's less to kind of hold upright. And when you're a baby, it's very hard to get that balance. Johnny could walk before Robert could even stand. And they could both read by the age of four because of their sister teaching them. But they both enrolled in a public school.
Speaker: and Eck recalled that the larger students would fight for the privilege or honour of lifting him up on the stone steps to school and the school windows were blacked out to discourage onlookers from peering at him because he found that
Speaker: like a struggle, like the school actively, like his classmates were like, I want to help you in the school. Oh, that's lovely. Like blacked out the windows for people walking past to help protect him and be like, yeah, make him feel normal. Yes, yeah. And, um,
Speaker: he there's just he sounded like such a great person he um remained consistently upbeat about his birth defect and when he was asked if he wished he had legs he quipped why would i want those then i'd have to then i'd have pants to press he's like i am
Speaker: literally doing fine yeah i'm living i'm cool i'm chill yeah he also challenged those who did have legs by asking what can you do that i can't do except tread water
Speaker: like he just um yeah and and him and his brother both developed an interest in painting and woodworking and would spend hours carving and painting elaborate fully articulated circus scenes and that's why i love that it's him who's like did you do the trick i told you yeah because that is what he was
Speaker: Yeah. He was like brainwave, you know, of, of he, yeah. And yeah, in 1923, so he was born in, he was born in 1911.
Speaker: So in 1923 when he was 12 years old, there was a local church that had a stage magician. And when they asked for volunteers, he bounded on stage and the magician was like,
Speaker: What? Because he hadn't seen a kid without legs. He was actively pulling himself out there. And that's when the magician was like, hey, come join our show. And X said, yes, but only if my brother comes along with me.
Speaker: Aww. They were really, really close. Yeah. And yeah, like he has an incredibly interesting life. He, like, again, we're talking a lot. I don't want to go too much later on in life in the 80s. We lived all the way to the 80s. The brothers were robbed and it was a really
Speaker: like it took hours. I don't like it. It just says they were robbed and it took hours. I don't know. Gunpoint or whatever. But one of the thieves sat on Johnny and mocked him because he's, you know, like
Speaker: at chair height, I guess, while the others took their valuables. And after that, both brothers just went into seclusion and became like reclusives and never had visitors in their home. And Eck would say, like, if I wanted to see freaks, all I have to do is look out the window. So he was very much of a mindset of they're the freaks. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, he had a heart attack in 1991 at age 79 and his brother passed away in 1995. Yeah, and they're buried together in Baltimore. No, it's something that they stay together.
Speaker: yeah it's really sweet they were they were like a proper duo and it's one of those things where you could like easily like imagine to hear be like cynical or like jealous yeah he was fine with who he was
Speaker: Yeah. And like you said, like, if I wanted, like, why would I want legs and I'd have to press my pants? Like, I don't want chores. I don't want washing to do that. Yeah. So that was the half boy, Johnny Eck. Josephine Joseph is a half woman, half man.
Speaker: I love the name Josephine Joseph. That is a good name. I really couldn't find all that much about her other than she married a man and later had transitional surgery to fully be a woman.
Speaker: And I don't know if that is because, because there were also lots of court cases around it. I don't know if part of the reason that she transitioned was so that she could marry a man, because obviously the 30s of it all. But that's all I could really find on Josephine Joseph. Frances O 'Connor is the armless woman, armless girl.
Speaker: She was born without arms. She was a travelling performer. I do not want to read the thing that... Basically the biography about her is kind of written super seductively and I'm like, why are you objectifying her? It's talking about how she probably benefited from the fact that she had to do things with her legs because it had to show her legs. And I'm like,
Speaker: Or she just did things with her legs and so her legs were wrapped. It's like she benefited from the innocent seductiveness. It's like, no, no. Not my girl, Frances. She is just doing what she's doing. And she is, she was incredibly, like, she could do anything with her legs. And she actually,
Speaker: When her mum was like her manager, when her mum died, she was actually still quite, I mean, she was probably like, definitely not a retire and age herself, but she retired because she didn't want to travel. And she, yeah, she just retired, spent her time knitting.
Speaker: I love that. Knitting was her favourite hobby. And so she just retired and knitted. And I love that for Frances. She never married. And yeah, again, the things like she had many proposals and it's like, yeah, yeah, cool. Let my girl knit. We move. Yeah. Olga Roderick is the bearded lady. She had, again, like
Speaker: I'm not going to act like they didn't have hard lives. She was sold to the circus by her mum. That's rough. While her dad wasn't home, while he was away. And she said, I don't know if my mum even got money or she just did it to get rid of me. Ouch.
Speaker: She was in many different circuses. She was married multiple times. A lot of the time the reason why she was in so many different circuses is she would just be left behind. There was one time she got very ill and she was in the hospital and the circus just left.
Speaker: and they didn't say anything but that did mean that her dad was able to find her that's lovely dad was very angry like he she said that he told her again like you know over time um nothing is good over time but you know domestic violence he gave her like a he he took his anger out on the mum for selling her
Speaker: Which is not good, because domestic violence, but she obviously, she was saying that in a, he loved me. Yeah. Problematic times of the thirties, but yes. She stayed with her dad for a while and then went back into circuses. She had two daughters, but that's all I could really find about her. There's Schlitzy. Mm -hmm.
Speaker: She, sorry, he, this is when I'll talk about Schlitzy. Schlitzy is Schlitzy's actual birth name and date. We don't really know anything about him. We don't even know his name. So that's why he's always referred to a Schlitzy, even though that's just the characters, the character.
Speaker: He was exhibited by Petey Dvarnam, the demon himself, as the last of the Aztecs.
Speaker: Yes, because Mesoamerican cultures often would bind their heads to give them a cone shape. And so most of the Pinhead people
Speaker: were used for. Yeah, were called the last of the Aztecs or the Aztec children. He was always exhibited, and that is the word for it, I guess, which sounds so disgusting. He was always exhibited as a girl. And it's always kind of positive, essentially, easier to go to the toilet was why he was always wearing a dress.
Speaker: And after, you know, PT Barnum had had his use of him, he was put in an institution where his health took a decline and he died. He went back into the circuit and died on the road, age 70. That's a good age.
Speaker: Well, again, like averaged of 70 because we don't know when he was in. But yeah, in 1971. So yeah, that's all I could really find on Schlitzy and I'm really sad to not even have his actual name.
Speaker: but actually let's see there's cuckoo who is the one who is dancing on the table at the wedding scene yeah
Speaker: She is mini -wallsy, but she also performed as Cuckoo. Cuckoo for Bird Girl was what she was often her stage name. She was born in 1980.
Speaker: I mean, in 1880. I was going to say, well... She time travelled. She was born in 1880, which means she was actually 52 in the film. Oh, wow. And she had a rare congenital skeletal disorder called Virchow's, Virchow's sexual or Harper's syndrome, also known as birdheaded dwarfism.
Speaker: So kind of a small head, like nose and receding jaw. That's why she was often called like the third girl. And yeah, she, yes, she had many, many names. Later on in life, she kind of didn't, because she would dance. And later on in life, she kind of didn't dance, she would just stand.
Speaker: there because I guess the viewing of her was... To be observed. Yes. Yeah, not much is known about her, but she actually died when she was 80. She was hit by a car. Oh, bless. She was pretty much completely blind. And I guess, yeah.
Speaker: she didn't have anyone with her looking out for her at that point in time. But that's Minnie Walsy or Kuki. We have... They all seem to have lived a long life. And that's the thing that the reason why I want to talk about them is
Speaker: because the film has such a, it's like that thing that it said in the scroll, it said, they have no power to control their lot. And I don't want that to be what we think of these actors.
Speaker: They lived lives. Yeah. And they survived so much, especially during this time where the film was right in the cusp of World War II. Literally, literally. And that's the thing. I think when I was researching them, it's like, oh, you know, she died in the 60s. Yeah. Well, or Johnny Eck.
Speaker: dying in the 90s. I was born in the 90s. It feels like it's such an old film.
Speaker: people with abnormalities, especially at the time, would probably have a shorter life expectancy than they're living. I want to give them their dues because God knows the film hasn't given it. Peter Robinson, he was the human skeleton. He's the guy who was given out. He's the guy who... The cigars? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So Peter Robinson worked at Coney Island, later Ringland Bros and again later P .T. Barnum. He was very, he looked
Speaker: very normal in his early life. It was only as like he went into Teenage Hood that he just didn't really put on any weight. Yeah. And his weight started dropping dramatically. He was married twice, both times to circus fat ladies. I couldn't really find any information on whether it was
Speaker: part of the show or a love marriage. He was said to, yes, Robinson's only screen appearance was in Todd Browning's Freaks as a circus performer who is overjoyed as he celebrates the fact that his wife, the bearded lady, has just given birth to their child, who is also bearded.
Speaker: By all accounts, his character in the film, the chatty, good -natured fellow who plays poker in the back of a tent and celebrates his baby's birth with a round of fine cigars, was not much of a stretch for Pete. He was a jovial man who loved to stubbornly argue about politics and was rumored to be a classically trained Shakespearean actor and an expert harmonica player.
Speaker: He died in 1947 at the age of 72. So I just think, I just really, I didn't have all that much information about him, but I wanted to read that. Because again, it's making him that person. Yeah, it shows who he is. Yeah. He...
Speaker: I argue about politics. That's me. It's making them people. Humanizing. Yeah. Especially when they've been dehumanized so much. To such an extent. Daisy and Violet. Is there your name? Daisy and Violet Hilton. They're from Brighton.
Speaker: Oh. They're from England. Their mother was an unmarried barmaid. So Mary Hilton was a woman who helped deliver them. Yeah. And she essentially bought them off of their mother. Again, it was 1908. I can't really blame the mum. No. Cannot imagine
Speaker: being an unmarried barmaid in 1908 and then suddenly having to raise two children with exceptional circumstances. But Mary Hilton exhibited them.
Speaker: from as soon as she had them. The only reason she bought them was to make money off of them. My first thought was when he said that she bought them was that it was going to be a, hey, I'll look after them for you, but no. No, she helped deliver them, she saw the potential and she would essentially like, yeah, up over a pub, people would and so
Speaker: she would go down into the pub get all the drunk men hey do you want to see something you know i don't know what she said but hey do you want to see something crazy like you know probably said what the guy said at the beginning of yeah i was gonna say it's probably something similar to his speech yeah you probably you know what without the whole these are people because he says these are people she probably just said hey do you want to see living monstrosities
Speaker: And they were controlling and abusive. Daisy and Violet have said this. They were extremely controlling and abusive and when she died, they were essentially passed on in her will to her daughter. They were advised by Harry Houdini to be legally emancipated. And they
Speaker: succeeded that's good they sued mary hilton's daughter who i think was also a mary um they sued them and got a hundred thousand dollars that's good that's good now but then that's amazing which had it had a like a translation to modern money for 1920 for 2021 though i don't know
Speaker: for now but it is essentially a million five hundred thousand. Whoa. So yes Daisy and Violet get that coin. Yeah they certainly earned it. Yeah yeah and um Violet was a great saxophonist and Daisy was a great violinist.
Speaker: Ooh, that's a nice combo. Yeah, I'm kind of annoyed that Violet didn't do violin, but you know. Yeah. Yeah, Violet was a great saxophonist, Daisy was a great violinist, and they kept performing after they legally emancipated. They kept performing right up until they died in 1969. They got the Hong Kong flu. Influenza A, H3N2.
Speaker: It was a 1968 global outbreak of influenza. It sounds horrible. On the 4th of January 1969, they failed to report to work. Their boss called the police and the twins were found dead in their home, victims of the Hong Kong flu.
Speaker: According to a forensic investigation, Daisy died first and Violet died two to four days later. That's horrible. It's horrible. Part of what breaks my heart about that is because they were never really allowed to make connections. I didn't make a note of it but... So was their body not found then until...
Speaker: Until we did. Yeah. So that's quite a few days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they didn't show up to work. And so the police went to their home to see how they were, you know, wellness check or whatever it is. And yeah, that's when they found them both dead. Oh, bless. Yeah, I just because they weren't allowed to make connections. Violet began a relationship with musician Maurice Lambert.
Speaker: and they applied in 21 states for a marriage license but were always refused.
Speaker: because I guess she was not seen as her own person. They did get married. In 1936 Violet married gay actor James Moore as the publicity star. Their marriage lasted 10 years on paper but was like not really. And Daisy was visibly pregnant at the wedding.
Speaker: So Violet married and Daisy was physically pregnant but the child was taken away from her. And in 1941 Daisy married Harold Estup who was also a gay man and their marriage only lasted 10 days.
Speaker: They did not have it easy. No, they, their tour manager in the sixties, sorry, I've completely gone on the wrong way round, but in the sixties, their tour manager essentially abandoned them. And they had no means of transportation or income. And so they were forced to take a job in a nearby grocery store. And that's where they worked for the rest of their lives.
Speaker: And that's the work, that's the job that, um, they feel to show up to. Yeah. I wish so much more for like Daisy and Violet Hilton, especially given like they, they were able to legally emancipate themselves. Yeah. Just the world is a terrible place for people who are different. Yeah. So that's Daisy and Violet, Prince Randian. I believe that's how Randian.
Speaker: believe that's how it's set. He's the man with all four limbs missing. Okay, yeah. He was born 1871. And he was brought to America by P .T. Barnum. Him again. Him again. This is his only film. He was incredibly independent. Yeah.
Speaker: like he, I mean, like we said, he's in the film, light in his own cigarette. Yeah. It was like, I want to smoke, I'm gonna have a smoke. Yeah, yeah. He was a child of British Indian slaves in British Guyana. And he was born with tetraemilia syndrome, which is the lacking of all four limbs. Yeah, they don't really know much about him. But Peter Barnum brought him to America when he was 18. So in 18
Speaker: Yeah, where he performed as one of P .T. Barnum's oddities.
Speaker: was, yeah, like I said, incredibly independent and skilled. He could shave himself by securing a razor to a wooden block and paint with a brush or pen, or write with a pen by using his lips. And yeah, most famously, roll in his own cigarettes. He was also said to be a skilled carpenter.
Speaker: using his mouth and shoulders to manipulate his tools and kept all the props and materials used in his act in a wooden box for he reportedly constructed and painted and installed a lock by himself using a saw, a knife and a hammer. So he was incredibly independent. He said
Speaker: He used to say, someday I'll build myself a house. And I just, I just love that. You can see him doing that as well. Literally, like, you know, he's going to build a book and put a lock on it. Yeah. He could speak English, German, French.
Speaker: as well as Hindi, which was his native language. He married very early in life to a Hindu woman known only as Princess Sarah. I don't know if these are the names that were given to him by P .T. Barnum, you know, making a fantasy element of making them prince and princess, but I love them and I'm gonna say it with love.
Speaker: make them fantasy elements. So she was known as Princess Sarah and she was a completely able -bodied woman and she was apparently devoted to him throughout his 45 -year -long career in the sideshow. The couple had four daughters and a son and a son later became his manager.
Speaker: Oh, wow. So he managed to get away from Petey Barnum and his son was his manager. And they settled in New Jersey. Yes, he died of a heart attack in 1934. Shortly after his comeback performance. He was 63 years old. And I think he's just like
Speaker: a perfect example of why I hate that they have no control and not in life. Because he could do so much. This is a man who like, if you think about, you know, V, again, this is very heteronormative and whatever, but when people say, what is the goal in life? Have a successful career, get married, have kids.
Speaker: Well, he did that. He did that. He literally had an amazingly successful career. He was extremely good at what he did. He got married. He settled in a beautiful house in New Jersey with his wife who loved him, his four daughters, his son. And then he died of a heart attack, which is a completely not at all related to his condition.
Speaker: I, yeah, I really I really loved his story and I'm so glad I did research into these. Yeah, that is lovely. I'm glad you did that as well. And I've ended with Daisy and Harry Earls. So this is Hans and Frieda. Yeah. They're actually siblings.
Speaker: Oh. Which is probably why they just hug at the end. Yeah. Yes. Daisy and Harry Earls is the stage names of Hans and Frieda. Their original names are Hilda Schneider and Kurt Schneider.
Speaker: So Hilda and Kurt, they, I didn't really actually get all that much information. Daisy, I mean Hilda was more famous of them, but they actually had two other sisters and they were, there's pictures of them in high order. Daisy was the tallest of the siblings, Daisy, Gracie, Tiny and Harry.
Speaker: Oh, oh, those Yeah, those were the stage names. Yes, and they, they were in the Wizard of Oz. Oh, as the Munchkins were angry at the Wizard of Oz though, because they weren't credited individually. And but they did have a collective name that they would often perform under. Essentially, their manager's surname was Earl. And that's why they were the Earl's.
Speaker: Okay. After his death, they changed the stage surname to Doll because they would be like the Dancing Dolls. Okay. And their collective name when they performed together was the Doll Family. Completely not at all derogatory. And the Wizard of Oz credits them as the Singing Midgets.
Speaker: Oh yes. Oh that's a no. That's a big no. Yeah that's a big no no. Um but yeah so like they literally have a collective name just use their collective name. Yeah it's not that hard to do. Well don't use their connective names they have names use each of their names. Yeah they all have an individual performer they're all their individual person use their names.
Speaker: Harry doll like do it but um yeah like if you are going to give them their collective name give them the right one yeah give it don't just make something up no and Daisy Earls died in 1980 and I wasn't really able to find out all that much information about Harry Earls um or Kurt Schneider yeah
Speaker: That is all the information I was able to find on the actors who played the freaks. Yeah, like I said, I just think it's really important to remember them. Yeah. As who they are and their lives. Yeah. And just how much they manage to accomplish.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, because they absolutely did. I was very nervous about doing this film. Yeah, I remember you saying that from the start, when you said that you need to do a lot of research for this film, that you're also nervous about doing it.
Speaker: Yeah because yeah like at the end of the day I am very aware that like a lot of the language in the film's outdated. Yeah very outdated. Very outdated. I don't know myself what the current terminology is and I definitely like
Speaker: don't want it to be conceived as, you know, I'm able -bodied and I'm going to tell you about why this film about Freaks is actually not problematic. Yeah. I mean, overall, I think I don't know if I would say it is or it isn't. I think it's important. Yeah. Because if nothing else, we've had this discussion. And it's the discussion that matters. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I yeah like I when I when I said I was gonna do this film I wanted to do as much research as possible because like like yeah like that's why I spend so much time like getting the life story of each of the actors because I don't want them to just be freaks that people point and laugh at. No. Because yeah like like like Ramya.
Speaker: lived that amazing life. Yeah. And yeah, like I also don't want them to be patronized. No. Like, like you you can be kind to people without calling them poor little dears. Yeah. And I think that's partly where at times this film, but then at the same time, they don't want to kill people. So is it patronizing? They have a they have a lot of agency in this film.
Speaker: Yeah. I guess that's all the context that I can give you. We've been recording for a very long time, but I don't want to end it now because now I want to know with all of this, we have been discussing this whole time, but let's, you know, get into it. What do you think now? I think I've picked up a bit more of the tone, I guess, now, so I'm a little less confused on that half.
Speaker: So I think I do have more of an enjoyment to it. And I like the, except for the importance of it portraying them to be, oh no, I can do this. I think that is a powerful step, especially for this time. I still have those moments which are going to be there.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, I think, I mean, again, we're not gonna say things in the past are acceptable. Yeah. But there is that part of, you know, it is. Yeah. A film from 1932. So this is the belief from the time. Yeah.
Speaker: Like, yeah, there are things that are still ick. And you can see why it's there. But that doesn't decrease the ick. No, you just have that historical background as to why that was placed there. Yeah, yeah. I think I the first time I watched this film, I was probably a lot more in your headspace. And I was kind of like, I don't know what's going on with this film. And it feels almost
Speaker: Like, I mean, I think we're both against freak shows. Yeah. Very much so. And it, you know, there's moments in the film that kind of feel like I'm watching a freak show. Because you are watching these people who like, like all of those actors were in freak shows. Yeah. And side shows. They all were. And see, yeah, that's uncomfy.
Speaker: Yeah, I know a part I did feel uncomfortable with and uneasy. But I think with the research I did, I definitely, like the first time I watched that, I think I thought,
Speaker: because it's on 101 films to see. So I watched it because I had to, in a sense. And so I watched it and I was like, okay, if you tick, that's done.
Speaker: Yeah. And I feel like now I almost think I'd watch this film again, I think. I think I would. Because I think I found so much more enjoyment because I was watching it so much more, like I said, like I did. What I did is I did some research before I watched it. And then I researched all the actors after I watched it. Yeah. I do like knowing about those actors now.
Speaker: And I almost feel like a lot of them, it was the only film they ever acted in. And so I almost feel like I'd like to watch it again because I now have so much love for the actors. It's their craft. You're watching it for them. They've made this film and it's a great film. I think I'm at this point where I think this is a good film. There's issues with it, but I think it's a good film.
Speaker: I don't know what, what, I feel like I've definitely done a lot of talking this episode. What do you think? I think, I think I'm almost there as to where you are right now. And like, and like we always say, like, we don't have to agree. No. You don't ever have to get to this point. But I think if I were to watch again, I would have more love for it, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I almost just want to watch it again just for, just for Frida. That's the thing. Yeah, I just, I loved her so much in this film. There's so much to be enjoyed in this film. I think, I think I would, yeah, I think this film is a really good, I feel like I'm doubling down on it. I think this film is a really good film because there is so much to be enjoyed in it for, you know, just the scenes of joy.
Speaker: between, you know, Frozo and Venus and Frozo and the other sideshow act. Yeah, I love those moments of joy in the film. And Frida being sassy and heartbreaking. Like again, that scene where she's breaking up with him and she's fiddling with her clothing, like it's so good. It's so good.
Speaker: And again, like the fact that many of these performers, it was their only film and it's amazing. I think there's so much... They were talented. Yeah, there's so much to be enjoyed in it. And there's also a lot of good conversation to be had from it. Yeah. So I almost feel like all the bits that are ick can prompt good thoughts. Yeah.
Speaker: And all the bits that are good can really be enjoyed, I think. Yeah, I agree with you there. So I think like we always say, we absolutely tell you the whole plot. And I don't know if you're someone who can
Speaker: moved past. Yeah, like spoilers and things like that. But I would recommend this film. Obviously, like, like, like we've said multiple times, it's very dated, obviously. Yeah, I think if I were to recommend it, it would be with a disclaimer attached to it. Yes, yes, definitely. Definitely. They're gonna say they're gonna be extremely ableist.
Speaker: Yeah. But I think I think it is and also the thing about this is it's very easily available online. How did you find it? Did you find it okay? Yeah, I found it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, it's that it's, you know,
Speaker: pre -code film. It's so old, no one cares anymore. Like it's not like films from the 90s. But I was more surprised that I could find it because it had been banned. Oh yeah, yeah. Well I think it then got such a cult
Speaker: follow it so it there are lots of copies of it and because yeah like it is so old the copyright people just don't care as much yeah like the time was expired but i know in parts of america this film is still banned oh it's there yeah wow it is a very interesting film i think and i
Speaker: not to pat myself on the back too much, but I think I am pleased with the amount of research I did. Yeah, you did well. Thank you. I was very nervous about it. Like I said, I think this film... Oh, can you hear my stomach? That was so loud! We need to wrap this up because Mug is gonna eat her microphone. Yeah, it's entering closer and closer to my mouth.
Speaker: I always wanted to do this from justice because I think there is a lot to be said about it. It deserves to be done. The mob justice.
Speaker: Yes. A little fact. The director of this film, I know, the director of this film was Todd Bronin, who also directed the original Dracula. Hey, I didn't know that. Yeah. The 1931 Bela Lugosi. Yeah.
Speaker: And growing up, Todd Brown had an interest in the circus and circus life. Yeah. And this film, he came across this film, which was a buck at the time. It was 1932. In 1923, the buck came out and he did the film in 1932. Yeah. And it was a film that essentially ended his career because it was so problematic. Wow.
Speaker: Yeah, and given how the tone of the film is, I would say, ultimately goes down on the side of, yeah, like we said, patronising at times, but treat people who don't look like you with kindness.
Speaker: It almost makes me like it more the fact that he made it and it ruined his career, but he still made it. This is a thing that he... He still went through with it. He wanted to get this message out enough that he risked his career for it. Shout out to Todd Browning. Well, I think that's literally all
Speaker: What else is there to say? If you are still listening, God bless you. I am sorry. Like I said, I keep saying, I knew it was going to be a long day. Yeah, this will probably be the longest.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. In fact, you know what, this is now for like, every time we think we're talking too much, hey, it's not freaks. Yeah. So thank you so very much. For listening and sticking this far. Oh, what film are you doing next? Next week. Next. I keep saying next week. Next episode. It blows up her tongue, doesn't it? Yeah. Next episode, I've chosen to do the Chernobyl Diaries 2012.
Speaker: which follows a group of eight people who get stranded into Noble and realise they're not alone. Well, I need to make a note of that because I don't think I had that written down in this next film. I'm excited. I have heard a lot about it. Well, not a lot. I've just heard of it a lot. Yeah. Well, yes, feel free to watch that as well so that you won't be, like we say, you always spoil it. You won't have it spoiled. You'll just be going along with us.
Speaker: You'll be able to picture the scenes with us. Yes, yes. Yes, thank you so much for listening. Please do feel free to check us out on AhoraShared on Instagram, a underscore horror underscore shared. We also have a Gmail if you prefer long form email. The email is AhoraShared at gmail .com.
Speaker: yes yes this is like i said this is the longest episode we'll ever do probably until the next longest episode comes up this is the longest by about an hour i think yep there's so much to be said about this so if you have any thoughts
Speaker: if you have any voices to say let us know please please do let us know because i think this is such an interesting film and there can be so many different ways of looking at it yeah if you have a way of looking at it please do tell us like mock said next episode we will be talking about the Chernobyl diaries 2012 yes and until next time keep it accepting yes that's very good be accepting of others
Speaker: Yes, elated. Later!
