Transcript
Speaker: Hello Kitty here, just to say, we're doing great and we didn't turn our microphone on until about 8 minutes in, 8 minutes 45 or so, so it's gonna be rough til there, hold on.
Speaker: I pressed it to start recording but you have to press and then press to start recording. It's a double press? It's a double press. I for... This is a learning card is what it is. We are new to this. We are. Yeah. They're supposed to be hiccups. And we're both... I think the fact that I'm ill is probably... And you have made me ill!
Speaker: I was like, you know what's fun? Starting a big new project whilst you're ill. And it's so much fun, I wanted you to have that fun. Thank you for bringing me in on that experience. You know you're welcome. I'm looking out for you. You are.
Speaker: You brought me an orange as a peace offering. I said, I said, I didn't say peace offering. No, you didn't. I heard you wrong. Yeah, but it kind of is a peace offering. Yeah, you hand it and you like for your sore throat and I heard it as here's a peace offering. Yeah. Yeah. Both are true. Yes. So, hello lovelies and welcome to another episode of A Horror Shared.
Speaker: this week's episode is about the brilliant dark comedy which is a horror as well called Death Becomes Her yes because I like that we're just getting straight into it of like horror doesn't just mean horror no oh yes no that's I think that's what I love so much about it because
Speaker: it's you know like with romance films you don't just you can get romance on its own but you can also get romance comedy you can get um fantasy comedy you can get yeah like romance fantasy and romance yeah and and like and and then you can have oh what is it um shawn of a dead is a zom rom com yeah because it's a zombie rom com yeah it is yeah because it's uh comedy uh horror
Speaker: horror films you don't tend to see comedy aspects to them that are deliberately put there. I feel like I would almost disagree, I feel like
Speaker: horror is always, well not always, but it's often slightly comical because you need that breaking tension. I feel like most horror films have that comic element either because everybody's sadistic or
Speaker: because it's a tension thing you can debate. That's more of a comedy in smaller sections whereas it's set throughout the whole thing. Yes, it's that thing of the difference between a funny film and a comedy.
Speaker: like that you, the first film I'm going to do is a dark comedy, I like, it's almost as if
Speaker: Hey, do you know what's great when you're starting a fan base? Sifting through people and making decisive choices, because I know from conversations with, hey, I'm pretentious, I talk to pretentious people.
Speaker: conversations with people like that they get very kind of oh that's not actually horror so it should I just think it's interesting if we will get people being like there's not a horror film well we're here to tell you that it is yeah and also like yeah it's a horror shed like yeah we're not saying this is a horror education no it's we're just chatting about films that we think is good
Speaker: Yes. Wonder if there'll be a film where we don't. Well I don't. This film. You don't this film? I don't this film. It's happened. I was going back, I was editing the first episode and we started and we're kind of like, oh I hope one day we disagree. And then I was like... Second episode we disagree. Yeah.
Speaker: Should I save this for a little bit later on? I just, the thing with this film, I like how I said, should I shave? And then I'm like, never. You know, rolling straight over you. As I do. When it's something to do with tone or... I like knowing what I meant to think in a film sometimes.
Speaker: i'm so contrary because i say that and then i'm like but i love delving in and figuring out what i think i truly i think my brain honestly just flips a coin and one day is like
Speaker: you need to be spoon -fed what you think of this film and then the next day is like don't you dare tell me what I should think you know it keeps it fresh and fun I found the tone really weird and I didn't quite know what I was meant to be thinking of things and then I
Speaker: We'll talk more as it continues. But I just... I also... So the thing we have to mention... A Horror Shared is a podcast where we watch the same film and one person has researched it and then we talk about that film. Have Eva of us? Eva's watched it recently? Yeah!
Speaker: no no even though i chose this film i think the last time i saw it was last year in 2022 yeah i well it is only february yeah it is only february how early in 2022
Speaker: I think it was the summer. So it's not even like a... Yeah, that's like a half. That's fine. That's basically this year, if you think about it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Scholastic wise it is. Oh yeah. And I'm all about scholastics. I saw this film probably also... Oh no, if it's in the summer, it's not this school year.
Speaker: because it's dark. You don't need to know that. These are the heart -hitting technicalities that people have come to enjoy. I've been out of education for a while, I don't know how it works. What is time? I watched it, I think this... Oh no, because I've moved house so it would not be there.
Speaker: no see the thing is I moved house but I keep staying around where I used to live yeah because and it's very confusing for me because I'm like oh yeah no this must be in the before times because I'm it messes up your timeline yes my timeline is all over the place essentially I have moved house but my parents keep
Speaker: Sorry about that, we didn't turn our mic on. No, or plug it in. Yes, I thought we just didn't turn it on. No, it wasn't even. It wasn't even plugged in. We're very smart and we're very good at this. We are two very capable individuals. We are. We are. And hey, mics, they do something. Yeah.
Speaker: They can be handy. They are important in the world. So, what was it with your parents?
Speaker: all those hours ago. So I've moved out of my parents but they go away on holidays and sometimes not even like holidays just like you know visiting a family or someone. We have a cat
Speaker: It's very cute. Oh Tigger is a darling darling dear and I kept it for them because also like I did job I have now I started it when I was still living at home so I know the commute from there yes so I think I was
Speaker: Visiting I was visiting and that's when you last saw and that's when I last saw death becomes us I think it was this school year and actually this school year not the summer before this school year Calling me Oh
Speaker: Why call out of you? Look, we both didn't watch the film. Recently, we have watched it. We have watched the film. We have watched the film. And I have seen it multiple times. Yes. And I've only seen it the once. Yeah. And I think I was quite... No, it was before summer. This is really not important or interesting. I just realised that it was before summer because... anyway.
Speaker: What happened was I watched it with a friend and I was quite tired and I think that probably didn't help my enjoyment of it. But yes, the reason we didn't watch it recently, neither one of us could find it anyway. No, yeah, it's no longer on Netflix. Yeah, and that's where I watched it when I watched it.
Speaker: Yeah I know I first saw it on TV when I was about 14 with my mother because it was a film that she was like this is what you have to watch because she does enjoy it and so that's when I first saw it and then I saw it again a few times on TV of the years and then Netflix when I put it on and now it's on neither
Speaker: terrible. Yeah it's quite irritating. Because I was actually cat -sitting again recently and so I was on, my parents only had Netflix at theirs, so I was on like okay I know it's on Netflix time to watch it and then I was like oh okay it's not on Netflix I'll wait till I go back home after cat -sitting because at
Speaker: our places, we have more options. It'll be on one of them. We have quite a few of the streamings. It'll be on one of them. Oh, no it's not. It's on then. None of them. So that's really useful for our purposes. And also, I feel like I've been ill for so long, but this was like the beginning of the ill. Okay. The evening that I watched Nosferatu, I was planning
Speaker: on watching Deaf becomes her. I got my notebook, I was ready to watch film and take notes, and I was like, yes, I'm gonna watch Deaf becomes her. And then I couldn't find anything, and I was like, ooh, do I do totally legal actions to watch this film? I can't even begin to be bothered because I'm ill. And also, I'm a good child, never would.
Speaker: Yeah, and so instead you looked at the Wikipedia page. I'm fully calling you out. Yeah, yeah I did, okay. No, because this is a thing. I watched it. My last watch, my first watch was longer ago than your last watch and I've only seen it once. So it's more out of your mind. So what I did
Speaker: And I thought, this is the thing, I thought you would have seen this. And so I would really be in the doghouse. But you didn't even, you didn't watch it either. So why are you calling me out? What I did essentially is I watched the trailer.
Speaker: I reached a couple of trailers and then I read the brief synopsis. Because then I have the visuals and I have a plot. That's film baby, that's it. But when it comes to the trailer that is something that I am going to come back to later.
Speaker: Yeah, there's an interesting fact about the trailer. We'll put a bit of a sizzle there. Yeah, we have that to look forward to. But shall we say what the film is about? We're talking about it. Yes! So it is a 1992 American dark comedy film. And it stars the brilliant Meryl Streep as Madeline.
Speaker: Goldie Hawn as Helen and Bruce Willis as Ernest. So those are the three main characters and they're an amazing trio. But the rest of the cast is stacked as well. And so it's essentially Madeline and Helen are fighting and fighting against each other for Ernest's love. He is a cosmetic surgeon
Speaker: who is no longer practicing because of his alcoholism, and in classic Hollywood style they are obsessed with keeping their youth, giving a youthful look. And that's why they are fighting over Ernest, because
Speaker: Yes, because he was a good cosmetic surgeon and so they wanted him for that reason and as the film progresses continued.
Speaker: Yes. And then Isabella Rosalini, who plays Lyle von Ruhmann, I loved that name, who is a rejuvenation specialist. She comes onto the scene and offers to all three of them this elixir.
Speaker: that will keep you youthful. I will prolong your life. It's an immortality. It essentially pauses. You don't age a day older. Yeah, you don't age further than where you are. But very importantly... All magic comes out to cost. Yes, and you do still get damaged. You don't age. You are essentially, I guess,
Speaker: Are you kind of like Twilight vampire'd? You know how they're like made of stone? Yeah. But like a lot more fragile. For fragileness of a human. But you're essentially like, you're no longer human. You're stone. Or like your material. You're not technically fully living. Which is, as discovered later on when
Speaker: Hell pushes Mads down the stairs and she twists and breaks up with Ernest. Yes, Ernest. They were both arguing. See, this is why... This is why we should have rewatched the film. Ernest pushes Mads down the stairs. Okay, ignore me. But whoever pushes Mads down the stairs... Yeah.
Speaker: Her neck twists round and she dies. She dies and ends up waking up in the morgue. But she has no pulse, nothing like a vampire essentially.
Speaker: but she's still alive. She's still moving. She's still... And she doesn't really realise that she's died because obviously you wouldn't... If you're able to be talking and moving around, you wouldn't be like, oh yes, I clearly died. No, yeah. She's like, what happened? Why does my neck hurt and all of this? Yeah. And then, because very importantly,
Speaker: Ernest is now not a morgue technician, there's a proper name for it. The job that you do when you beautify dead bodies for open caskets. Yeah, where you put the makeup on them, you put the putty on, that's what he does now.
Speaker: Madeline goes to him for his help. Essentially he is now the cosmetic surgeon of dead bodies. Yes. Because that's kind of what that job is. Yes, that's it essentially. Because you need to like do a lot more than just put makeup on them, you have to like
Speaker: Put things in cheeks. Yeah, so people don't look so sunken and things like that So look more like yeah, so he is a he's a dead body cosmetic surgeon essentially I don't know what is the term but yes, he's doing that and So Mads is like oh goody He's my plastic surgeon. Yes but Helen is still trying to
Speaker: The other thing that we haven't mentioned. Ernest refuses the potion. Oh, was that not where you were going? No, I was going to say that. So. The thing is, I never know how brief we are with a brief overview. Yeah, it feels like we do just go straight into it. Yeah. Because like, OK, so. Ernest wasn't originally meant to marry Helen.
Speaker: No. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm no one in agreement. I am not knowing your facts. It's because we're so turned around with a plot. I'm like, no, I'm right. Yeah, so Ernest. We've been having a lovely little conversation. Yes. A beautiful one. Oh, gorgeous. And we were making gorgeous little points. It was amazing. And then I looked and I was like, oh, I wonder how long
Speaker: we've been talking for. Well, where are we at? Yeah, I'll just quickly check how long. Oh, are there only 20 minutes? I guess that could have only been a 20 minute conversation. No. So is that it wasn't? No. I don't know how, but it's stopped recording. I think... Do you know what it is? What?
Speaker: The horror gods have decided that a dark comedy is not a horror film. Betrayal. That's what it is. They're not letting us record it. They're like, no. They're not. This isn't the first time we've had to try again. They are set against this film. So we had...
Speaker: recording from the laptop microphone because we didn't realize the microphone wasn't plugged in then we had well then we had that time when everything seemed to be working and then it stopped recording and now we're here there were many points in between when we suddenly realized well we did a lot of um figuring out of the microphone
Speaker: yeah it was uh it was touchy and we've had to do a have had to do a um room change yeah location change our producer is quite annoyed at us yeah our producer is not happy he just gets we've had to have a little room change um and our producer is not happy our producer is not happy he's given us feedback yeah he is walking in and out of the room he is
Speaker: Yep, more feedback from the producer. He's getting a bit angry. We're working hard please, nose is to the grindstone. It was just a glass through the door. So, yes, Helen.
Speaker: We've been doing this for a very long time, so with your permission, I will do a speed recap of this plot. And then we can talk about the bits that we want to talk about in an actual conversation. Yes, the speed review sounds good. Sorry if you wanted more in depth. Like we said, this is the third attempt. So, Helen and Mads. They have been friends for a very long time, probably since childhood. Madeline, played by Meryl Streep,
Speaker: We're doing great. Madeleine, played by Meryl Streep, I am in strife is what it is. Madeleine, played by Meryl Streep, has a habit of stealing Helen's boyfriends and so
Speaker: Madeleine is singing. Helen comes to visit her. Helen introduced Madeleine to her husband, Bruce Willis.
Speaker: Earnest and he is a he's just playing Bruce Willis. Yeah, he's playing himself. He is a cosmetic surgeon Madeline steals earnest because she's at a point in her career where she wants to start looking younger Helen is a failing author at the time the fact that Madeline steals earnest means that she goes
Speaker: off the rails and puts up a bunch of weight and then ends up in an institution. We then have a time jump seven years later. We have, um, oh,
Speaker: Yes, we have Madeleine Steele's Ernest. We have a time jump. Helen has put on weight and is in an institution. We have another time jump. Helen has lost weight and has released a book, which is a bestseller and is very glamorous. Madeleine has lost her career. Ernest is an alcoholic and is now doing makeup on
Speaker: corpses and for open caskets. It's hard to remember what got recorded and what didn't. So Madeline and Ernest who go into Helen's book launch, Ernest sees Helen goes awooga hamana hamana hamana and
Speaker: Madeline is shocked that she's no longer the glamorous friend. She goes to Helen's plastic surgeon, cosmetic surgeon, and is essentially told we can't do anything new for you because you're already doing everything already and
Speaker: but gets told about Von Rumen, Von Rumen gives Madeleine the elixir. The elixir stops her decreasing, essentially. She is no longer damaging her, you know, she's paused.
Speaker: Helen and Ernest have started an affair Helen says you need to kill her Too earnest they earnest and Madeleine then get an argument at the top of the stairs earnest pushes Madeline She's at the bottom of stairs dead Ernest is calling Helen. Oh my gosh. What do I do? We need to get rid of a body um
Speaker: Madeleine comes back and is confused because her head's fully twisted round and we are... Ernest thinks that he probably read for Pulse Rong and takes her to Amy. There she's essentially like
Speaker: No one really knows what's happening. We can't remember how they get growl that one. And then Madeline essentially sets up a situation where Ernest, who does makeup for, because Ernest is doing makeup for corpses,
Speaker: he is fixing the damage that has happened to Madeleine's body because at the point just after she takes the elixir, Von Ruhmann says to her,
Speaker: Make sure you're careful with your body and it's this great male shriek delivery where it beautiful She's like you're telling me this now. She's like I know a word of warning now like I've already taken it But but anyway then um Helen comes around and it's a
Speaker: kind of um they're getting a big argument they're getting a big like physical fight um they are getting slapped about and it ends with um
Speaker: Helen gets shot in the stomach Madeline shoots Helen in the stomach with a shotgun and she gets a big cartoon hole in her stomach and flies backwards into the fountain and Ernest is like oh my gosh you've killed her now there's a dead body and there's also my dead wife and they're talking about how to get rid of Helen's body
Speaker: when she gets up and is like, fuck you, essentially. And then it's kind of revealed that when she started releasing her book and the start of her kind of glamour transformation, she went to fun room and got the elixir.
Speaker: and has been taking care of her body till this point so that's why she still looks fine. Essentially if you don't take any damage on you're good. They decide that because Ernest is the perfect person to look after dead bodies
Speaker: they will keep him around so they try to say look honey you can have both of us and they then realise that they're immortal so they won't ever die but Ernest will so they take him to Von Rumen to get the elixir as well
Speaker: and he doesn't want to take the elixir he pockets it and runs ends up on the roof ends up hanging off of the roof and Madeline and Helen are asking him to quickly quickly take the elixir if it's in his pocket so if he because he's gonna fall he's gonna fall from the roof so if he needs to quickly take the elixir
Speaker: he won't die as he falls but he doesn't take the elixir he falls instead and you think he's gonna die but then he falls into the swim pool that's outside we then have another time jump and it's 37 years later and it is at Ernest's funeral and he has lived a long and perfect life and Helen and Madeline in the back of his funeral
Speaker: That was very good. You go. So they're at the back of this funeral and it towards the last shots is the camera spanning to the back. Panning, not spanning, panning. And you see both Helen and Madeleine hunched in the back of the corner all cloaked and hiding themselves essentially.
Speaker: They're wearing like the classic funeral veil thing. Beautiful. And they just decide to get up, they leave. And they stumble down the stairs and shatter their bodies into loads of little pieces. And then rather funnily, Ellen turns to Maddie and goes, can you remember where we parked the car?
Speaker: Yeah and that's the end of the film. That's the end of the film. Yeah and they're leaving the funeral because they're basically sat in the back of a funeral as if it's a... the thing about this film and the way that my friend
Speaker: offered it to me the way that my friend said hey do you want to watch this film is she said it's very camp yes it's very drag queen it's it has become a gay classic
Speaker: Yes, and it's essentially like the library is open. They're sat at the back of this funeral and they are ripping him to shreds between the two of them. Like the officiant of the funeral saying things like, and he lived a wonderful life and he is survived by his many grandchildren and he did great things and they're in the back kind of being like he was
Speaker: Yeah. He was sick. Yeah. And that's why they leave because they're just kind of they're... They've had enough. Yeah. And... Oh, we're going from the back forward. I was just gonna start to get into how they look. They are very... The reason they're wearing these veils.
Speaker: is because they are doing the best they can between the two of them. Because they don't have in it anymore. Yes. They haven't had in for those 37 years to
Speaker: to patch them up when they get holes and cracks. And to scrapes with each other. Yeah. I think that's why they fall down the stairs. I think one of them's saying to the other like, oh, could you hand me the filler? Yeah. Because I've got like a... And it's Helen who, she trips over something that's on the floor. It's almost like a can or a bottle. And she's holding onto Madeleine and drags her down the stairs with her. Yes.
Speaker: They're completely shattered. Like, it's not like they have twisted, like, oh, it's like a leg bent the wrong way. They're apart. Yeah, I think one of them... Like a giant doll. Yeah, one of them's like a literal just head, basically, who's like, do you know where we parked the car? Yeah. Yes, and that is the film of Death Becomes Us. Yeah. Do you wanna tell me why it's good?
Speaker: I just love it because it's just so deliciously dark but funny and it was made to be funny and comedic and there was a point you made earlier, I can't remember exactly what it was because, you know, memory. Who is she? Who is she?
Speaker: This film was not, did not have a big budget to be made. It was not meant to be a film that would become the classic that it is. It was just supposed to be one of those low indie films. Yeah. And it's definitely more of like a cult classic. Like you said, it's very kind of, it's a queer classic. Yeah. I think as well with it being a queer classic,
Speaker: RuPaul's Drag Race on season seven did have a runway challenge Where it was based around the theme of Death Becomes Her. Oh Is that and Katya has the shark on her leg I've not seen season seven Because I I um I can't um
Speaker: remember who's in which season and all of that. But I remember a runway where Katya is dressed as a sailor and has a shark on her leg and there's Kennedy Davenport is on fire but
Speaker: Yeah. This isn't RuPaul's Drag Race dissection. No. Because I watched that season, but I definitely watched that season before I watched Death to Kamsa. So there's probably references. That went over your head. Yeah. I'm just sat there like, huh? Okay. No, I only got as far as season three of that.
Speaker: I'm quite behind. Well, you know, it's... I'm not fast on it anymore. Yeah, it's not quite my cup of tea. No. I think that's what I do quite often. I like the UK one more. Yeah, it's the UK one I got to season three, I think of. Oh, there's only been three, I swear. Oh, maybe it's the America one I got to season three of. I don't know. Whichever one has a bag of chips. Oh, that's UK. That's UK. Okay, you're up to date. Oh, I don't know, it's fine now. I made, well, I didn't make.
Speaker: He was very keen to, but I did watch the UK drag race. Which season was it? Possibly season two. Wasn't Bag of Chips. Was one with Bimini. With my dad. Awwww. Yeah, my dad has watched season two of UK drag race. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: But again, this is not the RuPaul dissection. No, this is not a RuPaul dissection. But even before that RuPaul runway that was based on Death Becomes Two, Drag Queen, since the release of this film, have been dressed up in cosplay as Helen Maddy.
Speaker: because Helen Mad. Yeah, Helen Mad. I quite fittingly named because it's like with the heels and the outfits and the movements. And it's very with drag race. So much of drag seems to be
Speaker: Drag has been... I find that sometimes drag... I want to criticise drag for the... It's a very set idea of women. And Hell and Mad are that set idea of women. Yeah, they fit into that. They're very glamorous and they're very catty.
Speaker: it's their whole, their frenemies. Their whole friendship is built around the fact that they hate each other. Yeah. I think, yes. There is something that I don't like about the film is that they are catty. It portrays into that hyper sexy feminine
Speaker: Like luck. And it's that women are always going to be against women, especially if they are succeeding. They want to bring them down. And it goes into the vanity. Yes. The worst thing a woman could ever do is age. God forbid you are a day over. Was Leo's cap?
Speaker: He's about 26. No, but I swear, I swear he's never dated them when they're 26. Yeah. He breaks up with them before they turn 26. So, um... So if you're out there, Leo, you have... Sort of act. No, no, no. If you're out there, Leo, you have ten days and six months. Oh, for you. My time is fading fast, Leo, quickly.
Speaker: Well I'm only 23, I've got longer than you. Oh yeah, you've got time. Well you know, I'll meet him in this time. I'll have a very short -lived fling and then I'll send him your way. Except... yuck. Yuck. But yeah, the worst thing a woman could ever do is age. Yeah. I can't get past that. When I say I dislike this film, it's... it's that. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't think there's anything going for it in my mind because the main parts of this film is based on that frenemy aspect and their
Speaker: their hunt to be young. The thing that kicks Madeline into going is she sees Helen but also she's having an affair with a younger man and he's also sleeping with a woman who's younger again. Yeah who is his age and that's when she's like I have to be young.
Speaker: Because only the young succeed. Yes. Or the younger with it. They're the only people who will go far. Yeah, yeah. And it's this thing that, and this is why I find I need a indicator of what tone we're going for. Because I know people who think this is a cutting critique of that notion.
Speaker: they are chasing youth. And that's why it's a good film because it highlights that insane rush to be young. But I don't think it's a cut in critique at all. I think this is 1992 and
Speaker: Isn't it funny how crazy women are? Yeah. Because I know it's supposed to be done in a comedic way, but, but it's still not really because they're, they're the punchline. Yeah. They're crazy. It's putting women to like a stereotype essentially of and reaffirming
Speaker: incising to men that this is what women are, this is what they are like. And it's that thing that is the issue with societal problems is that you get that feedback loop where it feeds into itself. It's that whole thing of
Speaker: women are crazy because they're always trying to look young yeah but then the reason women are always trying to look young is because society hates older women so then i it's that thing that i think um we both follow him on instagram we do um i
Speaker: It's MathXIV. Yeah. Does loads of the like infographics that get shared a lot on Instagram. Yeah. They're amazing. Yeah. He did one recently about Madonna.
Speaker: I didn't see that one. And like Madonna because she was at the Grammys and everyone, I mean she's done, she's had more work done. Yeah. And she does, it is very visible but she's had more work done since like the last time people kind of saw her and everyone was saying that
Speaker: Oh my gosh, what is she doing to her face? She looks terrible. And I think he set it up in this circle where it's like, you should age gracefully. You look terrible if you've had work done. Women start to age. Oh my gosh, women look horrific when they're older. Woman gets work done. Oh my gosh, you should age gracefully. You shouldn't get work done. And there is - You just creates that cycle. There is no way out. No.
Speaker: And then, because that's so ingrained in society, you have women doing, air quotes, crazy things to look young. And then, and I'm gonna say men, but obviously I mean society, but, and then men get to sit back and say, see, we told you women were crazy. And it's like,
Speaker: Well, this is a problem that you created.
Speaker: you don't get to punch someone and then when they say ow this hurts say see I told you you're always complaining and that's what it is yeah that is it and that's what I was thinking of when I was watching this film and that's why I couldn't enjoy it because it's this whole film where we're laughing at Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn Hawn and Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn
Speaker: for being crazy trying to look young. And I think it was Meryl Streep. There was this interview where she said the first time she got a casting call for a mum, she cried. Yeah, I think it might have been her. And she said it was over.
Speaker: that's the moment when I knew it was over because you can't be the leading lady if you're someone's mum and it's just bits like that but kind of I don't know I
Speaker: I sometimes think I wish I was able to shut my brain off when I'm watching films like this. Yeah. Because this is a fun film. It really is. There were moments where I was kind of laughing along, but it's just like any... You want to shut that part of it off? Yeah. How's that commentary going? Yeah, I want to believe for half an hour, an hour and a half, that maybe sexism doesn't exist. Yeah. Unfortunately, it doesn't, so I can't turn that part of my brain.
Speaker: But what do you make? Because I'm doing anything where I talk. Well, you do talk. No, I enjoy it because of that whole... the comedy and the way it's done and the graphics. And one thing I was gonna say is I don't want it to seem like
Speaker: I'm trying to convince you. Oh yeah, no I know. I love, it's a really good film and if, and I, there's a difference between some people watching a film and not ever thinking about the meaning of films at all and watching a film and saying this is a film that I love and I know that it has issues but this is a film that I love.
Speaker: And that's very valid because the world is a shite place and we need to have films that make us laugh. I don't like that portrayal of women in it, but I still, that wasn't enough for me to be like, no, if that makes sense. But I think I love it more not just because of the film, but because I watched it
Speaker: killed up on the couch with my mother as like an early teen after like a hard day at school and it was like a comforting that you know you get that feeling back kind of when you watch it also it's in the looking at it from the feminist lens it's a film where you watch with your mom yeah
Speaker: So that's a kind of like a, like a, you know, it's a positive connection. Yeah. So I think it's because I have that positive connection, I think more positively on the film than you do. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, again, I don't know if this was Carl or not, but I watched it when I was very tired. Um, so, and when, whenever you're tired, like little things that it irritated. Yeah, they irritate them all. Yes.
Speaker: I am interested to hear what you would describe as the other stuff. Because in my mind, that's the main plot. And other points are equally bad. Why are they fighting over Ernest? Yeah. Like absolutely no offence to Bruce Willis. No.
Speaker: He is, oh, Bruce Willis in Die Hard? Oh, I mean, I've not actually seen Die Hard. I saw him. I know you still haven't seen it. It's very good. It's very good. Yeah. But I've seen the poster. Oh, yeah. I think he, is he in Ride and Ride 2? Yes. Yeah. Well, I've seen him in that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, very dishy in Die Hard. Yeah. Hamana Hamana, respectfully, a wuga. But they are clinging to him like he's air support.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, and it's this, um, they need a man. Well, and actually, no, you don't actually need a man. Yeah. And, and, and there's this idea that both of them are powerful, glamorous, glamorous women. Yeah. And yet they still have to have a man. Yeah. Like fully successful in a sense. Helen's an author. Yeah. She's a bestselling author. Why is she
Speaker: returning to a man who called off their engagement. For the best friend. For the best friend who he met for half a second. Like, no. Why are you trying to get that back? You wouldn't. And I guess the thing is, it's not about earnest. It's about getting back at each other. Yeah. They're not really there for earnest, they're there to make each other hurt.
Speaker: But it does just... But why does it need a man to do that? Yeah. I mean, he's just a pawn in their game to win against each other. But it still rubs me the wrong way. Yeah. That they are so dependent. And then, in the Victorian sense of film, when you look at how people end up... Do you know who it is?
Speaker: No. Educate me. I just can't help myself going in depth. This is the one where I'm meant to be sat here going, I know nothing about this film and I'm like yes Victorian sense of morality. It's a thing that to give a clear message for your story your characters have to end according to their morality. So essentially
Speaker: If you want your main female character to be perceived as a good moral person, they have to be married. At the end of the story. Because if - I didn't know it had a name to it. Yeah, that isn't the actual - Oh.
Speaker: I'm just putting blood. But it's that thing that, oh, what's the one with the Bronte? One of the Bronte's wrote it with the mad wife in the walls. It's not Wuthering Heights, do you have a Bronte? It's not Jane. Oh, Jane Eyre. Is it Jane Eyre? It's not Jane Austen, she's an author, not a book.
Speaker: Yes, so yeah, it is Jane Eyre, that is the mad wife in the attic and the, is it Mr. Rochester?
Speaker: is the man who has kept his, yes, the first wife of Edward Rochester is violently insane and is locked in Yattick and Edward Rochester is a horrid man who locks his wife in Yattick and he's also incredibly
Speaker: you know, emotionally abused. I haven't actually read Jane Eyre. I've watched various portrayals of it but it's very rude to Jane Eyre. Yeah. But they end up wed at the end. He, they get married and that is still a, essentially that's because
Speaker: Because if Jane Eyre wasn't married at the end of a film, her actions throughout the book would be deemed wrong.
Speaker: no matter, you know, what you have to. Yeah. And it's a heteronormative married. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 1847 Charlotte Bronte is not going to be like, and then Jane, um, Jane finds Bertha the first wife. Yeah. Jane finds Bertha Rochester.
Speaker: and they get married and live a beautiful cottagecore life in a little cottage and go mushroom picking. We can only dream. In a parallel universe. Yeah. In a parallel universe. That's how we would have ended it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what Charlotte wrote in that world. Yeah. Yeah. And we said, thank you very much, Charlotte. We appreciate that. Yes. But on the subject of moral
Speaker: endings. It's only acceptable if. Ernest. Ernest wins. Yeah. So Zemeckis, the director, how he's with them, he gave the three of them a chance to redeem themselves. That's the elixir. And with their choice in what they do.
Speaker: That's bullshit. Yeah, it is. No, but that's bullshit because we never see Helen's... No. Helen doesn't get that choice in the medium of film. If it's like off -camera. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry, continuous. But that's where that's supposed to be, is their kind of way of how well they redeem themselves.
Speaker: So the two of them become worse, essentially, afterwards. Whereas he refuses to take it. He stands up for himself. And he has death on a line. Yeah. He's like, well, I might die after this fall. Yeah.
Speaker: He thinks he is going to. Yeah, he believes he will. And he still does not take this, Alexa. And he's on the roof because he's trying to escape the world of those two women. And so he kind of redeems himself by not taking that and then living a life and having this family
Speaker: You made an eyebrow. And it's the most, and hey, if you want to live that kind of a life, live it. But it's also the fact that it's the most apple pie American heteronormative life. And it
Speaker: He probably had a not powerful wife that he married after that. Because that's what was wrong with his life before. He was married to a domineering woman. Do you know what? The worst thing a woman can do is age. And the worst thing that can ever happen to a man is a domineering woman. God forbid she's an old domineering woman. Jesus, ancient Jesus. Age Christ, that would be hell on earth.
Speaker: And Ernest is the villain, I would say. In this film, I see Ernest as the villain. Because that's such a, I support women's rights and I support women's wrongs. Cause he's not, cause Helen Mads are terrible. They're absolutely the worst ever, but it's the
Speaker: and you can't I mean we are all a product of our society yes you can't just sit back and say you can't escape the world yeah you can't say well I'm only mean because the world's made me this way anyway I'm gonna go kick a pigeon you still have to put a bit of niceness into the world
Speaker: But it's just a fact that all of their choices do seem to be so connected to that idea of I can't age because if I age it's over for me. I have nothing left. Yeah. And Ernest is in no way
Speaker: supportive and they're terrible wives too like they're not being supportive of him like that's another thing he has alcoholism yeah he's and that's a joke yeah they're making a joke which is not a joke um it is a serious thing yeah but it's that is the focus of him a lot is his struggle with alcoholism and that's why he's no longer the
Speaker: surgeon, the cosmetic surgeon. And so this handshake. Yeah. So he can't do surgery. Yeah. And that's. Again, I'm I'm watching this like it's like it's a drama and it's a comedy, but it's it's. And again, it's that thing of I was over, I was in I was in a analyzing headspace, I think. But it's just that thing of like the fact that he is no longer a surgeon because of his alcoholism.
Speaker: is a terrible thing and it's a joke. Yeah. And that's another reason why I'm like, yikes. Yeah, because that happens to people and it's not, it's a serious thing, it's real. And you shouldn't really be making light out of someone's struggles with it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And in the subject of, I'm essentially gonna tell you all of my issues, because the other one I have is Helen. The seven year jump. And then she is overweight at home. And it is the picture of the most disgusting a woman could look. You know, they've purposefully made her look
Speaker: as bad as they can in a... And it's the classic people go on about Fat Monica. Yes. Fat Monica in Friends is a punchline. The weight that she has is a punchline. And Helen in this fat suit, it's this thing of glamoristic thin celebrities
Speaker: putting on a fat suit and then being funny. Yeah. And it's not funny. No. No. Um, and again, she's going through it. Yeah. She's struggling and it's from, it started about seven years ago when Ines chose Mads and then that's when hell started spiraling and it's that portrayal of, well, this is what a spiral is. Yeah.
Speaker: And especially like this is what a spiral for a woman is. She's lost her beauty and beauty is her only worth. Yeah. So she's lost her worth. And it's this, um, I was watching an interview, um, that Brendan Fraser did about the whale.
Speaker: I haven't seen oil. I don't know if it's actually out yet or out soon but he's talking about how it's about a man who is obese and has health issues linked to that and is trying to reconnect with his daughter before he dies and
Speaker: Brendan Fraser talks about this character's eating as self harm. Yeah. And that was a really interesting way of phrasing it that I found because I'd never really thought of it in that way. And disordered eating, you know, like it's that line between disordered eating and eating disordered it is somewhat hazy, but
Speaker: you get the idea that, or at least I did, Helen is using eating as a form of so -called. And yet, the film, she sat there re -watching, is it Matt's wedding video? I think she's re -watching. It's definitely Matt's. Eating ice cream. And
Speaker: If it wasn't the film that it was, that would be heartbreaking. That would be really quite triggering, actually. Because she is eating to the extent of, and she's living to the extent of she hasn't paid a single thing. You kind of get the idea that she's just shut the door and it's just there.
Speaker: and she gets booted out of her house because she hasn't been paying her bills for whatever because she's just sat in that room eating, watching clips of maths and then she's in the institution and and she's still so angry and bitter and and and
Speaker: And yeah, and again, it's that, and the shots in the institution. They're not a good portrayal. No, because it's lots of women sat around kind of muttering to themselves and it's very kind of, yeah, like I think that's why my gut reaction was to call it an asylum. Because it is portrayed very, it's the madhouse, it's the nut house, portrayal of it.
Speaker: but then as well after she gets and then she gets the elixir and the way it's betrayed is that her is in air quotes fixed yes as if that beauty that youth is all that she needed yeah yeah when there's that's not it's like even if that was okay she'd still be struggling yeah and because also she's she's been in this downward spiral for seven years yeah I know it's another seven years later but you
Speaker: The extent that the spiral is kind of portrayed as, you don't fix that in seven years. Or maybe you could argue that she's not fixed because she is still, you know, a homicidal zombie, essentially. You know, we support all variations and
Speaker: portrayals of growth and that's Helen's idea of growth. Becoming a homicidal zombie. Yes. We love that for her. I just, that's the thing. My main issues for this film are
Speaker: portrayal of cattiness for women. Why is Ernest deemed the hero? And the way they use Helen pre -transformation is very uncomfortable. It's very icky. Very icky. That is the word for it. Yes, icky.
Speaker: So what I wrote as I was trying to figure this out is that yes, I struggle with the film's tone. Is it a film about the expectations put on women and how much they suffered to stay young because of society? Because society is not allowing women to live and age.
Speaker: Or does the film think the issue is made by the women? Women always care about their looks and they are the ones causing themselves to be so inner turmoil. And it is the latter. Yeah. It's a film in 1992. It is the latter. It is the latter. And it just feels very like... It doesn't sit right. Jeez, women are crazy.
Speaker: like essentially if I sum this film up in one word it would be geez women are crazy um but that's how I watched it continue with your views I had that when I was watching it but that was more towards like
Speaker: the back of my mind, if that makes sense. But yeah, when I was, whenever I watched it, it's always been as a way to gain comfort because of like how I first watched it. Then it's, I don't know. It is, again, I'm not at all here to be like, you should hate this film. Oh yeah, no.
Speaker: It does seem like a very fun company film to curl up and be like mad and hella crazy. Yeah. And it does betray what society was then and still is now. And the way it's... the way you see it being over exaggerated in a sense in the film. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely like pulls me laughing back as far as it can go.
Speaker: Yeah. And in my mind it snaps. Yeah. But that's mine. Well I think in mine it doesn't snap but it's getting there. Oh yeah. It's tense. Yeah. If it were to let go it would hurt. Yes. It would be quite an ouch. But no, earlier, towards the start, you mentioned you rewatched the trailer. I did.
Speaker: Yes. And you went ooh! Yes, because I do have facts about the trailer. Okay. Some shots that were in the trailer and that are in the promotional posters didn't actually make it into the final cut of the film. Ooh! Yeah. Okay, which ones? So in the trailer there's this scene where
Speaker: they're driving along like, I think it's a coastal, like they're in a car, they're driving, the roof's down. That's not actually in the film. Okay. Yeah. And there's in all the, in the trailer and the promotional videos and posters, there is this actress, Tracey Ullman, who in the final cut does not make a single appearance.
Speaker: Oh. Yeah. How? I need to look up the poster. It's not in, like, the official poster. It's in, like... With the... with the candle through Goldie Haunt and, uh... Yeah, like, that's the main, like, film poster. It's in, like, some of the promotional posters. But she was in the original ending. Oh, okay. So the ending we see now, Zemecs and test audiences believed was too happy.
Speaker: No, yeah, in the original they believed it was too happy, which is why we get the ending we do now. In the original ending, Ernest is in a bar with this bartender. They're in love. The bartender's played by Tracey Ullman.
Speaker: This is, that's how it ends after he'd faked his death by falling in the swim pool surviving. He faked his death and then runs off to live with this bartender. Okay. Oh yeah, I've just googled, um, death becomes her Tracy Almond.
Speaker: And it's this will describe it. But again, this is the first image. So if you Google it, it's Bruce Willis and Tracy kind of sat across the bar from each other. They're looking at this elixir. Yeah. It's like out in the open. Like she is kind of gazing at it studyingly. Intrigued. Yes. Essentially.
Speaker: But yeah, that's not in the film. The test audiences and Zamek's thought that ending was too happy. And opted for the two of them, his eulogy, his death, actual death, and Madsen Hell falling down the stairs.
Speaker: that does feel more in -fitting with the film and it's one of those things where you can never tell if that's because that's the one you've seen. If I had seen the Tracy Oldman ending and then I'm like how could they just fall down the stairs? Well I think in the that end they don't actually, it just ends with them at the bar. It's wild how much
Speaker: test screenings change things yes yeah because um yeah like the director if the director has an idea for a film they should be able to just make that film and it shouldn't really matter if um you know joe from down the road is like not enough explosions yeah um but yeah oh that is interesting the effects
Speaker: I quite enjoyed them. I love them. I thought they were good for the time as well. They're so good. And again... They're done comedically. Yes. This is very definitely not, um...
Speaker: It's not a horror in the sense of, well, it's a dark comedy. It's not like you're gonna see what it would look like if someone fell down the stairs. Because also, back to Ernest being a villain, he pushes her. Yeah, he did, he tried to kill her.
Speaker: he pushes her essentially because the the scene is in the trailer so i've seen the scene recently they're having an argument he kind of pushes her and then she's on the edge like she's she's kind of tottering yeah she's about to fall and then he just pushes her
Speaker: murders a woman. He doesn't know that she's alive. He murders a woman because that's not manslaughter, because she isn't fallen. He then pushes her. He murders a woman and then he has the apple pie life.
Speaker: Yeah, he does not deserve that. No. No. Because he's the victim of the film. Yeah, they betray this man as a victim of women who were the actual victim. Broken by the power of a dominant woman, the meanness of a dominant woman. I'm sorry, but like,
Speaker: And again, obviously, they are terrible wives. I am not saying, you know, buck up Bruce Willis. Like, they're horrid. Divorce. That's an option. Hey. If, you know, if your life is crumbling to the point of your alcoholism has
Speaker: pushed you away from the career that you found fulfilling and it can be traced back to the stress of your wife who you hate divorce divorce it was that simple it's yeah and then hey you can look up Helen you can get back in touch you can have a lovely life she's taking care of herself yeah so she's
Speaker: you know you are gonna age she is gonna not and then that's gonna get freaky but sure it's yeah um i just because i just remembered that he definitely definitely pushes oh yes deliberate and
Speaker: Yeah, and yet they are the horrid ones. When if you think about murder... I mean Mads does shoot Helen with her shotgun.
Speaker: But that's true in a fight, so I feel like that's slightly more on the cusp of manslaughter -ish. It feels definitely less intentional than a push, because he has all that moment, because she is on the edge for a while. He is weighing up his options. Yeah, he can either reach out, pull her back. Or just walk away. Yeah, walk away. Nature happens, yeah.
Speaker: But he chose instead to give him a little shove. And Helen doesn't do any murder. So we got half a murder done by two women as opposed to one very strong murder done by a man and yet he's the victim. Over 90s. Fun times. But the effects. Amazing.
Speaker: Yes. Practical. We love it. Yeah. I love practical effects. But Meryl Streep, after doing this film vowed never to do prosthetics because she had to do a lot of that. Yeah. She led never to do it again. Oh wow. Yeah, that was her first and only time. Wow. I'm trying to think of what I've seen her in and I
Speaker: Well she said that would be her first and only time. Yeah, no, but I'm like trying to think if I've seen her with like, things where, no. I mean, if characters like, doesn't she play the witch in Into the Woods?
Speaker: Because she mostly plays very human characters, so they wouldn't really need prosthetics. But I know she plays the witch into the woods. I've not seen Into the Woods. I haven't either, but I know... You just know things? I just know things. And I feel like that's the kind of film where you would have a fake chin on. She's like a witch. But I think that's just a little light.
Speaker: okay so she she vowed to never have to do like sit in the chair for over an hour yeah i think that kind of thing yeah and there is one scene of hers where she is in prosthetics and her boobs are being held up by one of the stage members off camera
Speaker: oh wow yeah what a girl mm -hmm what a job yeah holding Meryl Streep's boobs yeah um because there's a bit where her head gets crushed down into her neck and I think we did discuss that that was in the bit yeah that was in the yeah um
Speaker: But that goes right down, you know, she's got all the kind of folds of her chest going up to her nose. Which I don't know if that's how spines work. I feel like her spine would be sticking up the top. Unless her spine's broken.
Speaker: Yeah. It's gotta go somewhere. So it's either sticking out the top or it's broken. Or it's sticking out her arse. That's what I'm saying. Or it could be sticking out the back of her neck. Like snapped. Like when you break your arse. Yeah, no, no, but that's what I mean. It's either sticking out the top, at the top of her neck. Or it's like sticking out back like a little tail. Or it's broken.
Speaker: no confirmation on the state of our troops spine. But that's really good. It's very, it's very cartoon. Yeah, especially as well you said the cartoon a bit for the shotgun and the hole in the stomach. Yes. And also the fact that she goes flying back. Yeah. I remember when I did
Speaker: physics when we were learning about momentum we had a very good physics teacher and one of the questions we were learning about momentum and the whole like you know if something's moving and then it hits something that's stationary and then yeah yeah so we were essentially calculating the momentum that had to be conserved moving backwards of a bullet going into someone yeah
Speaker: Because, hey, that's what you should be teaching 17 years. See, I think I did sort of the physics bit of that, but in my degree.
Speaker: Can't really remember much of it. Degrees, eh? Yeah, what are they for? But it was just a quick question of how much momentum would a person experience. And because a bullet is so tiny, it's moving so fast, but it has so little mass, and a person's stationary.
Speaker: and you wouldn't fly back. Essentially it's this thing for our teacher kind of did it and then was like there's all those films where people fly back. Yeah that was what we were doing was like the lectures like see like with the shows like the options you watch when they just go like
Speaker: jotting and flying back. That's not actually how it would work. No, no. And it's bad enough in some things. I think with a shotgun though, they are more powerful. It is more of a bigger job but it's still not as exaggerated. Yes, because in some like normal films and people go flying backwards to the degree of like
Speaker: they they're not flying backwards but they you know stagger backwards even that's not necessarily realistic yeah but her feet are off the ground yeah she she's out of all she yeah she's flying yeah um and has a giant hole in it also yeah where a shotgun's like yeah a spray of little bullets so it wouldn't take out an entire it's but it's very good and that
Speaker: And it's things like that that make me wish I did like this film. It's things like that that make me wish I could just. I think it is those bits as well. Shut my brain off. Those are the bits like, yeah. Yeah. You are kind of like grinning through those bits and then, and then Ernest's on screen and he's all like, what have you done to me? And it's like, go to therapy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, um, yeah.
Speaker: I love the effects. It is very good. Yeah. And von Ruhmann. Yeah. She's just wearing a necklace. Yes. But is it von Ruhmann? Ooh! Okay.
Speaker: Okay, so yeah, that character is von Ruhmann. Yes. Plays by Isabella Rossellini. Yes. I think though she has done... Stunning. Oh, beautiful. Even though in film and TV she has done her own nude scenes, the nude scenes in this film she had a body double for.
Speaker: Ahhh. Yeah. I thought you were going to drop, but there's another character who got edited out. That's why I tried to, I best correct her. I thought you would go, that's the way I tried to clarify as quickly as I could. And that body double is Catherine Bell, who has become a famous actress. Okay. And stands in her own right. And I can't remember what else she's been in, but she is in, she's the witch in The Good Witch.
Speaker: I think that's what it's called. The show on Netflix. I haven't seen The Good Witch. It's more like a teen show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin Bell. Yeah. Let me do a little Google. Gorgeous. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have seen her back. Yes. She has a beautiful back. Oh, she, she spells it with a C. I can't get on board. Oh yeah, you're with a K. I am with a K. Um,
Speaker: Okay, so she's in Bruce Almighty. Is she? She's in a lot of the good witch. Do you know how much good witches there are?
Speaker: I didn't realise it was a series. So there's the Good Witch series. Then there's the Good Witch that came out in 2008. She is the Good Witch. The Good Witch's garden. The Good Witch's destiny. The Good Witch's wonder. The Good Witch's family. The Good Witch's charm. The Good Witch's Halloween. Yeah and she is the main... The Good Witch spellbound.
Speaker: I don't know if it was that many though. The Good Witch Secrets of the Grey House. It's like Sherlock. The Good Witch Special Announcement. And I think that's the end of The Good Witch. Yeah, but that's all since being this body double. Yeah. She's, she enjoyed it, like the working on the set and everything. Oh great way to get to know people. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, especially with those triple threats. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're doing a scene. You got your tits out. Yeah. At the end of a scene, you just say, hey, Meryl, could you just slip my name in a conversation? Yeah.
Speaker: But whilst we are talking about the triple threat, the trio, the amazing, Bruce Willis was not the first person to be cast as in this. I did see that because when I was looking up the plot on Wikipedia, I was very definitely trying not to see anything else because I know that's not my place to say. But it's all on my screen. I like I press the button to go just down to the synopsis and then yeah.
Speaker: But, continue. Yes, for the audiences who don't know. Bruce Willis was not the first person to be cast. He was... Kevin Kline was cast first. Fell out with the studio. Yeah, it was a bit of drama. He fell out, he left. And then they were debating whether to start Jeff Bridges or Nick Knottie.
Speaker: I think the superman said, as the role of Dr. Iris Menville. But then Bruce Willis came along and they cast him. Aww. Yeah. Cause the thing is how much, um, no, I guess this is the nineties. I'm trying to think how much had like, um, all of them done. Um, cause obviously they're big names now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I have, I don't think I've ever seen Kevin Kline in a film. I'm like looking up his filmography now and oh he's in the world of Roto Dorado but like that's animated so I haven't seen him in it. Okay, none of these are
Speaker: Oh, he's in A Midsummer Night's Dream, I do like that song. Wow. Yeah. Because it's things like as well, I'm thinking Bruce Willis. It feels like a bit of a departure from... He's an action man. Yes.
Speaker: And here he's playing a broken man. It feels kind of not his type. It's not his current typical role. No. So I'm just thinking how established was he in that role? Or is this, you know? Yeah. But it is a very good trio. And they act really well together. Oh yeah they do. They are bouncing off each other. Yeah. There was a bit of an issue between Horn and Streep.
Speaker: It's an accidental. Okay, good. Not like a... I thought this was gonna be another We Love When Women Argue story. Okay, tell me these accidents. There was an accident happened on set. Yeah. And in one of the fight scenes and the one with the spade on the shovel. Yeah. And Streep did actually hit on the face.
Speaker: with a shovel scarring her cheek. No. Yeah. So it was an accidental thing. Yeah. Yeah. Does she still have the scar? I don't know if she still has the scar. Ooh. If it's faded well. That would be wild. Yeah. Um, that is, I mean that is wild. I'm guessing they had to stop filming that day. Yeah. Had to take a little time out. I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker: seeing a scarper she is she is gorgeous no she is it it's such a gorgeous cast it is all of them yeah I mean there's that famous quote again from Meryl Streep that she got told that she'd never be
Speaker: A leading lady. Yeah. Like one of her first auditions. They say it. And, you know. Look at it now. It was the 80s. Yeah. You could just say straight to her face, you're not attractive enough to be a leading lady. The pressures put upon women. Yeah. The unrealistic pressures. But yes, you were talking earlier about the, what's it called? The special facts. Yes.
Speaker: Well there was, this film that I've come to was a digital, the digital advancements that came from creating this film pioneered other films. Okay. It was made easier and more possible for other films to achieve what they were wanting to because of this film.
Speaker: That's really cool. Yeah. So it was like the digital advancements that were pioneered on this film by the industrial light and magics people.
Speaker: Yeah, because of what they did for this film, the technology and everything, they were able to fulfil what they needed to for the next one, which was about a year later. Jurassic Park. Ooooh! Yeah. Nice! So the technological advances that were made because of this film
Speaker: influence Jurassic Park. Wow. And if we're talking queer cinema, Jurassic Park. Oh yeah that's that too. That's the most bisexual film that ever existed. What a cracker. Yeah. Wow. I like to think that company only makes queer films.
Speaker: We'll have to look into that. That'll be our homework. We can do your special effects, can we just have a brief overview of the plot? And the cast. And costumes that might be worn in this project. No, I'm sorry. It's far too straight for us.
Speaker: And then they go off and make Priscilla Queen of the Desert. Meryl Streep? Yes. Also, there's quite a few things about this film with her. Yes. Because she's magnificent. When she was cast to play in this film, she did not think that she was cast to play Madeline. Okay. I think she thought she was cast to play Horn's Roll. Okay. Yeah, Helen. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: It wasn't made clear to her that she was going to be playing Maddie. Yeah, and I guess, is Maddie kind of meant to be more of a villain? That's, I think, how I saw it. Yeah. Because Helen's bad, but you at least have the comeback story. Yeah. And, you know, she doesn't, like, try to kill anyone. Yes.
Speaker: Yes. Well, no, because she actually... Okay. Well, she was the one who... Yeah, I was gonna say strike gets Helen there. She's the one telling. She's told Anis to get rid of Mads. Hey, they're all problematic. Yeah. But I still support women's wrongs. Zemeckis. Yes. The director. Yes. Is amazing. Okay. Are you aware of who he is? No. You are not. No.
Speaker: Ooh, he's the director of Back to the Future. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, go on then. As well as a bunch of other amazing bits. Yeah. But he included an Easter egg in this film for his Back to the Future film. At some point someone says 2 .21 gigawatts. Unfortunately not. God, that better be the right number of ways I'm gonna get
Speaker: Yeah, hounded. Yep, continued. You know, it's when Helen takes, we do see Helen take the elixir. Oh! Okay, then she must go and do that at some point. Between. Because I was thinking she has to do it after a bit of her comeback.
Speaker: because if she took it when she was still fat, she would stay fat. Because it pauses you. She has to have done the transformation before taking it. But we do see her take it, yeah. And it's mentioned, the date is mentioned when she takes this elixir and it's October the 26th, 1985. Oh, that's good.
Speaker: And that is the same day McFly and Doc travel back to 1955. They leave to travel to 1955 on that very same date. Yes. And they also leave to go to the future on that. Or is that different? Because is it one of those things where everything happens on the same day? No, it's the next day. Because they sleep on the porch. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: It's over 17th of October. Yeah. They travel to the future. That's good. I like that. I think it's those little background facts that make me love it a bit more as well. It's just the comfort I get from it. Okay. Yeah. I don't agree. You don't. Okay. You still hate it. I hate it less. That's a start. But that's not because of a film, that's because of you.
Speaker: i um not sound really um gushy um i i love watching people talk about things they like yeah especially when they're your wife
Speaker: Yes. We are legally married. Yeah, we are married. So I love watching people talk about things that they're interested because there is that light in people's eyes that just is the most beautiful thing. And you get that feeling as well from them. Yes. It's hard to listen to someone talk about something they're truly interested in and not have some kind of an interest.
Speaker: However, that will only extend as long as I am talking to you about the film. The second we press stop and I stop talking - That love is gone. It's gone. It's gone. I just, yeah, I just can't get past all the things I've mentioned. I think, yeah, the portrayal of Helen at her lowest is - Oh yeah, the very not good chance. Yeah, and the -
Speaker: the comedy of earnest suffering from alcoholism. They make light of a lot of real issues that should not be made light of. Yeah, and that's the thing. You can make films that include things like this, but it just always comes... It's the way it's done.
Speaker: It always comes back to the point that that is the punchline. His alcoholism is what's funny about him. The fact that she's fat is what's funny about her. And it's just not what I want. But at the same time, that's me. Like, if... And I...
Speaker: I love the story of films going unnoticed and then coming back as cult classics. Yeah. That's just, that's heartwarming because it's that whole, it's like charity shopping. Yeah.
Speaker: you're finding a hidden treasure and then you're... You're finding a head. Yeah, yeah. And whenever it comes back as a cult classic that is specifically a cult classic within the queer community, that's always good as well because it's that whole thing of
Speaker: fuck you, you never gave us a film, we'll take your films. We'll use this. And the fact that it's such a classic amongst gay men, it's like, this is a film with strong women. We love it. It's that thing that is always a lot of
Speaker: It's that thing that, you know, gay men love female musicians. It's that same kind of notion of like, yes, you aren't giving us anything for us, so we're gonna take this. I love it. We will claim this. Yeah. I think, okay, so at the end of my review, I love the theory of it. Yeah. I hate the film. Okay. Yeah? Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. You're entitled to your own opinion. You disappointed in me? No, I'm not. That is better than what I thought you were gonna say. Okay. Cos like, when we started earlier, you started by saying that you don't like this film. Yes. Because if we... Which, if you specify, like, going to, like, the depths of the portrayal of women. Yeah. And all of that that we've talked about. Yeah.
Speaker: then yeah, I hate that, but I also love the film. And that's the thing, I think you can choose to think of a film as an entire experience.
Speaker: which includes the surrounded media, includes the watching experience, includes the mulling over of it. And you can also choose to think of a film as the 90 minutes that you sit and watch it. Sometimes don't even sit. Cut bell peppers too. Yeah, that's what I did when I saw R2. Yeah.
Speaker: so and you don't have to limit yourself to either one like if you want to think of it as the first for some films and not for others yeah that's fine that is what that is because your relationship with the film is your relationship with the film everyone will have their own relationship yeah and i hate this one and that is okay yeah because you're not you are allowed to think that everyone
Speaker: Caesar film takes something different from it, they all have their own experiences of it and not every film is made for the enjoyment of everyone. Yeah.
Speaker: And in fact, that's kind of what is sucking a little bit about cinema nowadays, is it is the, um, universalisation. That's not a word. But you know what I mean. Everything has to appeal to everyone. Um, Disney is very guilty of that. Um, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. I do feel like I've let you down, though. No, you haven't. You know you haven't. You've never let me down. Thank you. It's okay. So yeah, that has been our opinions, our thoughts on a death becomes hurt. Finally. Yeah, fine. So thank you for listening.
Speaker: And please feel free to check out our Instagram, our horror shed, a underscore horror underscore shed. Yep. And do let us know what you think. Watch the film or just listen to it and let us know what your opinions are. Let us know. We're intrigued. Let us know if you also
Speaker: Um, hated it. Yeah. So I have... You feel less alone. Let us know who you agree with. Yes. Who do you side with more? Morg or Kitty? That's the question. That is the question. And next episode will be hosted mainly by Kitty with her choice of thing, our film called The Thing. Yep. The Thing About The Thing. The Thing About The Thing. And until next time, stay depth -fying. Ooh!
Speaker: Like that.
