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Toys on Film: Batman Returns (1992)
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Let's all go to the movies! We're back with another addition of Toys on Film, this time talking about 1992's Batman Returns, Tim Burton's lauded sequel to his 1989 classic. Join us as we talk about the movie, it's production, and of course — the toys! From Kenner's early 90s releases all the way through 2025's McFarlane Toys releases.
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Intro and other voices by Joe Azzari
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Theme Music is "Game Boy Horror" by the Zombie Dandies
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Adventures in Collecting'
00:00:03
Speaker
Are you ready, kids? Get your parents permission, check your mailbox and grab your shopping cart. It's time for the Adventures in Collecting podcast. I'm Eric.
00:00:15
Speaker
And I'm Dave. Welcome to Adventures in Collecting, where we talk toy news, culture and hauls, along with our journeys as collectors.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome back to Adventures in Collecting. hi I just wanted still as I could for as long as I could. just where either We're back. was buffering or We're here.
00:00:46
Speaker
so good
00:00:49
Speaker
um Just three poor schmucks who got lucky and have a great podcast together.
Holiday Myths and Mistletoe
00:00:56
Speaker
Hey, I have a question. fell into a bucket of creek Are we going to answer the question is if ah mistletoe is actually deadly if you eat it today?
00:01:05
Speaker
I didn't look that up. No, but listen, a kiss could be deadlier if if you mean it. Remember that. Remember that. um Hi, everybody. Welcome back. Welcome back to Adventures in Collecting. This is we're we're back ah kicking off the holiday season. Yes, it's poisonous.
00:01:23
Speaker
but But it depends on how much you eat. Today is all about edutainment. um So going get a little little learned as you have some fun with us. No. So we're kicking off the holiday season with personally one of my favorite...
What Makes a Christmas Movie?
00:01:39
Speaker
ah I don't care what anyone says. One of my favorite Christmas movies of all time. It is. counts.
00:01:44
Speaker
I saw actually a a good thing online. Not to derail us, but... Okay. I saw like if... You could take Christmas out of the equation and the the like movie makes sense still.
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah. Then it's not a christmas then it's not a Christmas movie. So like Batman Returns has to be a Christmas movie. Yeah, it's true. It's like 100 percent. it All of that stuff can only take place on Christmas.
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, especially with the the kidnapping of the the winter princess subplot. Yeah. Yeah. You you ruin the movie if you take Christmas out. So, yeah. i like o Long story short. so Yeah. um But we are ah we are back with another episode of.
Toys on Film: Batman and Beyond
00:02:44
Speaker
That's right, gents. Everybody, we are back with Toys on Film. And we're talking about... I feel like we underutilized the gag last episode, too. the last step I mean, it's a long clip.
00:02:56
Speaker
And if you're not watching this, if you are listening to this on your podcast feed in its purest form, um I don't know how well the gag actually works. Well, everybody knows podcasts are the most visual of mediums.
00:03:08
Speaker
Well, you can still hear the music. Hear the music for what, Dave? For Toys on Film, Eric.
00:03:22
Speaker
Okay. um But yeah, we're so there you go. We're we're here with ah with back with our our our voice behind the pod. like bleeping out a certain name that I'm not going to make you work harder to believe.
Guest Appearance: Joey Candy Pants
00:03:34
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate it. ah Joey Candy Pants. Welcome welcome back. ah it's It's always good to have you have you on here in person rather than just in spirit.
00:03:44
Speaker
um Glad to be here. Yeah, yeah. Glad to be here. feel Feel free to fall into your Christopher Walken as often or as not often as you want throughout this episode because we're going to be talking a lot about Max Schreck and all the other characters here in in not only, like I said, one of my favorite Christmas movies of all time, but this is my favorite Batman movie of all time.
00:04:07
Speaker
Wow, hot take. Okay. I do love this movie, though. This is my favorite Batman movie, and I want to go. i want to make the record. It's favorite of the four of the the for sure of the four.
00:04:18
Speaker
I want to make make it clear. The last time we got together and we were talking about um Batman Forever, I mentioned that Val Kilmer is my... like When I close my eyes and think of my childhood and think of Batman, he he is my Batman. um But when I think of Batman movies, this this is the movie.
00:04:39
Speaker
This is the one that I think of. um you know this is... For me, the just it's my it's my favorite Batman movie. So, um yeah. As we usually do, Dave, ah do you have any yeah any stats for us? as we Before we start talking about, ah of course, the film and the figures and and everything, um let's talk a little bit about the ah the making of the film here.
00:05:03
Speaker
Okay. So...
Deep Dive: 'Batman Returns' Movie
00:05:05
Speaker
um The film Batman Returns, released June 19th, 1992, was written by Daniel Waters from a story by Daniel Waters and Sam Hamm, directed by tim Burton, of course, music by Danny Elfman, makeup effects by Stan winton Winston. He was nominated for an Oscar for his makeup effects. Do you know which film he lost to?
00:05:35
Speaker
Oh, in 1992. So this came out in June of 1992, correct? Mm hmm. Yeah. June 19th. If you don't believe me, look at the poster. So what did he lose to in 1992? Mm hmm. Oh, that's a great question. um And I saw it and I'm like, OK, I get that.
00:05:57
Speaker
I don't know. Was there like a Predator movie that year or an alien aliens? Like a sequel? He would have worked on it. That's true. Yeah, no, I don't know. What did he who did he lose to?
00:06:09
Speaker
Bram Stoker's Dracula. ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was ah I was like, OK, OK.
00:06:18
Speaker
All out. oh I love that movie. It's a great it's a great movie. I'm Stoker's Dracula. um So ah the body oh you need, you need that Keanu Reeves for your, your oops. Yeah. You know, you need Van Helsing. Yeah. I'm missing that.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah. um He did have a figure. You might have to go back to like, I think it was Kenner even back in the day. There was a Bram Stoker's Dracula. I believe I'll make a custom one that scales. Yeah. Well, while you're ah Dave, while you're talking about the budget of the film, I will try to find a picture. um No, I would like to be paid attention to. No, I'm kidding.
00:06:57
Speaker
The budget was somewhere between 50 and 80 million dollars. Nobody knows for sure. My guess is it was closer to the 80 and not the 50. Yeah.
00:07:09
Speaker
Worldwide box office, $266.8 million. Wow. $162.8 million of that was domestic. It was the sixth highest grossing film of 1992. Do we want to do a guessing game or do you want me to just say them?
00:07:26
Speaker
Just say them. Behind um um from one to five, Aladdin, The Bodyguard, Home Alone 2 Lost in New York, Basic Instinct and Lethal Weapon 3.
00:07:41
Speaker
i know It is, however, that box office, while being impressive for the year and and, you know, it's funny, I looked at the numbers and adjusted for inflation aside, Batman movies have made a very similar amount of money.
00:07:58
Speaker
throughout their lifespan. um But this is seventh out of eight solo. I'll call the modern era Batman movies. So we're not counting, um you know, the original Adam West for Ward. We're going from 89 on and not counting any of the Snyderverse because they are not Batman solo movies.
00:08:22
Speaker
Correct. That makes sense. Okay. And um where I also did not count animated in that. So no Lego and no Mask of the Phantasm. Also fair.
00:08:32
Speaker
Okay. So out of all the live action solo Batman movies, this was seven out of eight. Really? What was last?
00:08:45
Speaker
Batman and I was going to say it's got to be Batman and Robin. There's there's no way that's not last. My only two guesses of that would have been Batman and Robin or um the Dark Knight Rises. But no, Dark Knight Rises is what is like second or third.
00:09:01
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:04
Speaker
OK, it might be second, I think.
00:09:08
Speaker
Hot take. I think that's the worst Batman movie. Hold on. Wait a minute. Out of all of them. Well, we could tackle this. and We could tackle this in a larger conversation at a later date. But I think yeah dark the Dark Knight Rises is is the. You think it's worse than Batman? OK. Yeah. I'll shut up now. Batman. Dark Knight Rises is at least like competently made.
00:09:31
Speaker
Don't say that Batman and Robin is unwatchable because I could watch that movie Listen, right why don't you chill? OK, I can watch. Chill. I'm not going to I'm not going to like it, but I'll watch it. Get the gun and kill the heroes on on good old rotten tomatoes. Batman Returns has an 82 percent.
00:09:49
Speaker
OK. ah Do we want to go? right Yeah. Do we want to go through the cast now? Yeah, absolutely. Because there's some interesting things we can talk about. And there's some interesting cast we could talk about. Some of the things we I have in that I think you're going to want to talk about. i have in my other notes, but OK. All right.
00:10:08
Speaker
Of course, um returning for this film, we have Michael Keaton as Batman, Pat Hingle as Commissioner Gordon, and Michael Guff as Alfred.
00:10:22
Speaker
New to the cast, we have Danny DeVito as Oswald Cobblepot, a.k.a. The Penguin. Michelle Pfeiffer as Selina Kyle, a.k.a. Catwoman. Christopher Walken, the great Christopher Walken, as Max Schreck.
00:10:37
Speaker
um Michael Murphy as the mayor. Michael Murphy, character actor, has been in, i think, everything twice. Yeah. They're in the novelization.
00:10:49
Speaker
he is Mayor Jenkins. But he is not named in the film. He's just the mayor. Yeah, he is just the mayor. um Andrew Bernarski as Chip ah Chip Shrek.
00:11:04
Speaker
I love that guy so much. how do you want to What a bad go. Save yourself. That go. He just you instantly talk like your own father every single time. Kids always.
00:11:15
Speaker
When you grow up with your dad talking like that, I guess so. Like it's like thats you grew up in it around school the British accent where I wonder if like they said no sound more like walking or if they were just like, nah, just go. Like, we're not going to imagine he just did it. And like everyone, like I imagine he did it for a take and everyone just kind of shot Tim Burton a look and he was just like, keep it rolling.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I love that. I i love that actor. He also plays Zen Gief in the original Street Fighter movie. That was a note that I have here. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, that's all right. Also, Leatherface from the Michael Bay Texas Chainsaw Massacre remakes. I do. And um of course, from a favorite film of mine, Latimer from The Program, the the college football film. He's also in Necessary Roughness, also a college football movie. um He was in Any Given Sunday, also a football movie. So I mean, he's a black' a big dude.
00:12:13
Speaker
So he is. He's a burly man. um Of course, the late, great Paul Rubens and um also Diane Salinger as Tucker and Esther Cobblepot.
00:12:27
Speaker
Amazing Pee Wee's Big Adventure crossover there. Yeah. Yeah. Simone and Pee Wee reunited. Did you know? yeah I'll start with the did you know here.
00:12:37
Speaker
um i guess we could hit some did you knows. But did you know that Burgess Meredith was originally contacted and was cast as so as Tucker, um but could not do it due to illness?
00:12:52
Speaker
Oh, he would that could have played the penguin's dad. Wow. Wow. Oh, that would have been great. And now we get into like, here's every like the most character actor thing of all time. And some of these folks are people who are like Tim Burton regulars and some are not.
00:13:14
Speaker
um Actually, a lot of them are not. um Just give us some highlights because I don't have pictures of these people ready. You don't need to have pictures of these people because you'll know who they are.
00:13:27
Speaker
If I tell you who they are, you'll know. All right. So Jen and Josh, the Penguins image consultants are played by Jan Hooks and Steve Whitting. Jan Hooks, of course, you know, from Saturday Night Live. yeah um She is the tour guide from the Alamo in Pee Wee's Big Adventure. sure Steve Whitting is Bert from the Hogan family.
00:13:49
Speaker
Good old Jason Bateman's best friend, Bert. Oh, yeah. Not a lot of reflective surfaces down in the sewer, huh?
00:14:00
Speaker
An all time great character actor who you've seen in everything and from ah and a couple like reunions in this movie to reunited with his One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest co-star Danny DeVito. Of course, I mean, Vincent Chiavelli is the organ grinder from the um from our old Red Triangle gang.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yep, and I love yeah Shouts to Ghost. Awesome movie. Oh, hell yeah. Shout out to the FMV video game Corpse Killer, where Vincent Ciavelli is the final boss of the game. Jesus Christ.
00:14:41
Speaker
Fantastic. Rick Zumwalt as the tattooed strongman. You may remember him from the great Sylvester Stallone arm wrestling film Over the Top as Bull Hurley.
00:14:53
Speaker
i didn't even realize that. Go ahead. Hit me. Mm hmm. Another great all timer character actor, Branscombe Richmond as terrifying clown, who you may remember as Bobby Sixkiller from the TV show Renegade and Kiyoki, the bartender from Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
00:15:15
Speaker
Wow. Wow. um The owner of the bar where the objectionable photo of Mila Kunis lives. You're actually making me somehow like this movie more. As if it were not. It guessed better, and I'm to save the best one for last.
00:15:37
Speaker
Gregory Scott Cummins as Acrobatic Thug, who you may know as in his all-time greatest role as Max Dad on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
00:15:53
Speaker
This could be a fun movie, like six degrees of separation. This is 100% a great Kevin Bacon game like Sean Whalen as the paper boy, fresh off of his debut role in The People Under the Stairs.
00:16:08
Speaker
um The guy who wants to buy the Wonders record in That Thing You Do. um He's one of the storm chasers in Twister. But I think his best role as the guy who can't say Aaron Burr in the Got Milk commercial.
00:16:22
Speaker
because he does not have to look for his peanut butter sandwich. clo umber herber And last but certainly not least, as Thin Clown, the great Doug Jones.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, that one. out Oh, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one I knew. That one I knew. Wow. Yeah. So like just a wild like who's who of all time great character actors.
00:16:50
Speaker
What a cat. Just peppered throughout this movie. Yeah, this movie this movie rules. Like, it genuinely... More so than the original one, to be honest. 89's got, like, Robert Wool, and but they're all, like, kind of, I would say, less character actors and more, like, kind of...
00:17:07
Speaker
You know, they they they've frunked movies before. yeah A or B listers for sure. Like Robert Wall's solid B like, right. yeah But you've got a singer. Who's who of character actors in this movie?
00:17:21
Speaker
Like literally you run the gamut of people who are still doing it now. Yeah, that's crazy. That is crazy. um We did just rewatch this movie. So I i watched um and I realized that the the girls jumping straight into Batman Returns was probably going to be confusing for at least Callie. So we did watch 89 Batman and then went right into this. um It was great watching this movie.
00:17:48
Speaker
again like through the eyes of a child for the first time this was the first time Callie had seen this movie and she's actually about the age that I was when I when I saw this this is Batman Returns is if it isn't the first movie I went to in to see in theaters it's the first that I remember seeing in theaters like I remember going to the all-wit 1992 oh yeah that's great I'm thinking my age Yeah, no i was I was four. Yeah, that was accurate. I remember these toys. i remember seeing them on shelves. I remember going to the Allwood Theater in Clifton, New Jersey. Clifton, New Jersey, that's right. That's where we saw it.
00:18:28
Speaker
Like, i I can vividly remember. It's believe. ah this movie has has imprinted on me. So it was fun watching it with, you with a four year old again. um And ah it's still it's still amazing. Not not without controversy. So this movie was ah not to jump into your your facts, more facts section. But um I didn't put this sin because like I knew we would talk about it anyway.
00:18:54
Speaker
So um as even though Batman 89 is a fairly dark film, I think we can all agree it's fairly dark film. um Batman straight up murders people in both of these movies. But the appearance of the penguin in this film and the very overt sexual overtones of um Catwoman's interactions with Batman and the penguins for that matter. um had parents in a little bit of a, uh, a twist back in 1992, uh, tie-ins with McDonald's and things like that for happy meals were very scrutinized, um, to the point where when we get into the actual conversation about the toys later, we will talk about how the Kenner penguin, uh, was not the penguin from this film.
Penguin's Controversial Portrayal
00:19:48
Speaker
Uh,
00:19:49
Speaker
So, i you know, I have to say, like, just in terms of like watching this as a parent with a four year old, um there were things that definitely went over her head, which were totally, you know, that's what happens. But like i mean there were things that went over my head as an 11 year old.
00:20:04
Speaker
She loved this movie. ah She thought it was great. um She wasn't a great a big fan of the Penguin. She thought he was mean, but like that's. fair um and a little gross he is pretty mean and gross yeah my favorite comment from her was when he was in basically in like his underwear mode at the end i don't like the way his body looks daddy was my favorite um because he does kind of have that like kind of weird like he's lumpy pillow look him for he's he's an egg he's egg he's he's very odd shaped guy um but yeah so this movie did a lot of things uh that kind of body shaming by the way we're not no no no no we're penguin we're penguin shaming he's met he's meant to to look like he's meant to look horrific yeah he's meant to look scary he's a monster um
00:20:59
Speaker
uh yeah this movie veered off the path that like of dc comics history in terms of the origins of both the villains in this film so uh penguin of course being born a ah born to a a gotham socialite family the cobble pots and being discarded almost moses like in a in a river in the gotham uh central park um because he was born ah with deformities.
00:21:29
Speaker
So he lives in the sewers and grows up with ah the some escaped penguins from the the Gotham Zoo and ah and circus people. And circus people. Remember, he was born without five tiny digits.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah. But one shiny flipper flipper. Um, shouts to Danny DeVito for just being an absolute like trooper for this role.
00:21:56
Speaker
So I got some some info if we want to go back to the. Yeah, let's. start Yeah, let's talk a little bit about Danny DeVito. So, well, originally Penguin was not written as the main villain by Sam Hamm.
Tim Burton's Creative Direction
00:22:11
Speaker
It was written with two faces, the main villain and a direct continuation of 89. Um. um So it would have had Billy Dee, Billy Dee Williams as continuing as Jim's would have continued. There was the comic series that fantastic went through that.
00:22:28
Speaker
um If you'd like to read it and see where the movie could have gone. um But yeah, Tim Burton initially was not interested because John, John Peters and Peter Goober were still at Warner Brothers. But when they left for Columbia Pictures, Burton was very excited to hop on board. um And it allowed for him to have more creative control and remove the original writer, Sam Hamm, for. um For Daniel Waters, um
00:23:01
Speaker
And Tim Burton did not want want to make like a direct sequel. um He wanted to make like a completely different lives in the same universe, but could stand alone, like new story.
00:23:15
Speaker
And he did not care about comic book accuracy or anything like that. um He did not understand the penguins. So he was like, I'm going to I'm going cook here. And boy, and boy, did he.
00:23:29
Speaker
Um, now for the Penguin role, um Tim Burton's initial wish was for Marlon Brando to play the Penguin. um Dustin Hoffman, Christopher Lloyd and Robert De Niro were also considered um along Danny, along with Danny DeVito and Jack Nicholson convinced Danny DeVito to take the role.
00:23:52
Speaker
God, could you imagine if Robert De Niro was the Penguin? Could you imagine if any of those four? So here's the thing. i can just focus on De Niro right now. I could imagine. I'm focused on Brando.
00:24:06
Speaker
Forget that, because we've all seen if you if you haven't seen the island of Dr. Moreau, don't watch it, but just watch listen to the How Did This Get Made podcast about it. And that will give you everything that you need to know. Well, here's the thing I actually think I think De Niro would have been a great classic penguin.
00:24:23
Speaker
Like if that wasn't like the weird, like deformed penguin, if it was like, you know, mobster. i disagree because look at Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
00:24:34
Speaker
OK, that's fair. I forgot to have done it. He could have done it. Iceberg lounge. Just saying like he's he's he's kind of he's kind of the best part of that movie.
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. It's true. That's Branagh, right? Plays Dr. Frankenstein in that movie. Yeah. But yeah. i and do And then, you know, Cat Catwoman also with kind of like the supernatural element to her, the whole like nine lives thing, the fact which was not intentional, was not intentional. No, that's just something people kind took and ran with.
00:25:13
Speaker
because she talks about it, though, in the movie she does, but she's kind of just playing up the cat. mean, even even her like return to life with like falling out of a ah a window and cats biting her fingers and she's like, I'm back now. Like that's that's definitely a supernatural.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah. Thing, whether it was intentional or not. I mean, Wikipedia could be a complete load of crap and kind of normally is. But I mean, I could see it as being one of those things that's up for interpretation, but I totally interpret it as she has weird cat powers.
00:25:47
Speaker
Not like Halle Berry, though. No, no, not like that. No, no, no. No, I interpret it more as like she's very fortunate and.
00:25:59
Speaker
um Christopher Walken's never fired a gun in his life. Oh, a I mean, so he's never fired a gun in his life. Yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe she tried. don't know. I don't know.
00:26:12
Speaker
I'll throw out a window.
00:26:16
Speaker
but I'll put it this way. You know who he clearly is supposed to be in that era. Has that man ever fired a gun? probably not and that's it's fair i didn't really think about it we're not going to say it out we're not going to say that we're not going to say the quiet part but also when he looks to be we'll talk about it off off offline joe um when he looks at at bruce wayne at the end bruce bruce wayne why are you dressed like batman it's the best the best i love when they yeah we' we'll probably get into more of those lines and those things but when they're at the party together
00:26:53
Speaker
yeah Let me guess. Trust fund. This movie is way more over the top and campy than it gets credit for, given how dark it is.
00:27:07
Speaker
Like, it's like a fever dream episode of... of like 66 Batman like it it is. It is that campy. It's just so the dial is turned like the opposite direction on the dark side that like you.
00:27:22
Speaker
It balances out. Yeah. Yeah. it Like masks some of the campiness of this because like some of the lines like there's delivered so well. The original one is too. Yeah. Forget your lucky deck. Like you have Jack. all I love Jack. Yeah. Jack Palance and Christopher Walken are very much cut from the same cloth. Yeah. oh My number one guy.
00:27:45
Speaker
i I know we're not talking about 89, but I did just hear a fun story about 89 that apparently Jack Palance, by the time he was filming that movie, was like mostly deaf. So when Tim Burton would call action, Palance just kind of like sat there and no and no one no one wanted to like.
00:28:06
Speaker
Like bother him, so like Tim Burton had to keep yelling like action louder and louder and louder and louder to the point where like he finally responded. And apparently Palance pulled him aside at one point and was like, do you know, do you not know how to make a movie? You just never call action.
00:28:25
Speaker
And he had to be like, hmm, well. But yeah, this movie is... this this movie is it shouldn't work on paper.
00:28:39
Speaker
Like when you look at the different elements of this, like how Batman murders people and, and penguin is like a deformed monster.
Burton's Unique Style
00:28:48
Speaker
i think it only works because it's a Tim Burton movie.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah. And I, I think that's, that's exactly it. Um, The legit murder of what that Batman does in this, though, with like the bomb, that's like the the first you're just like, he has the bomb, he puts it on the guy's chest and throws him down a shaft. But it's also like the the the cleanest explosion of a. heat Oh, yes. Of all time. Yeah.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yep. Yeah, there's there's like it's i'm almost a Looney Tunes explosion. Oh, yeah. And Sam Raimi directed it, you know, blood would be shooting up. at So it's one of those things where like it it speaks. I think it speaks volumes to both this movie and 89.
00:29:29
Speaker
how how like cohesive they are as as films that like people don't harp on the fact because like, you know, I've watched these so many times, but like watching it with like a hey, I know I'm going to be talking about this for likely an hour on a podcast. Like I need to really like kind of dial in here.
00:29:47
Speaker
um it blows my mind that nobody goes back to these and they're like, hey these, these are horrible. Batman kills people. He's not supposed to kill people. Right? Like, cause one of the first things that you'll hear people say about the the Snyder movies, regardless of how you feel about them. Right? Like, it's like, Oh, Batman shouldn't be like that violent. Right?
00:30:05
Speaker
In these movies, dude, Dude's murdering people left and right. But like, here's my thought on that is that, yes, he is It's more slapsticky murder. It's 100 percent. cop Whereas comedic murder, the Snyder ones, you know, he's it's like murder, murder. It's well, I mean, he hurricane runners. He hurricane runners a Joker goon out of a bell tower. Yeah, I mean, he does do that.
00:30:33
Speaker
And then you watch him fall to his death. Like the camera lingers on him falling down that bell shaft. And like he doesn't do the thing where like Batman's like, you know, fires the grappling hook and like, you know, anchors it to the ground. So that way, at least like the guy's dangling by his foot. I think it's I don't know. Maybe it's because of the newer movies. It looks a little bit more visceral than.
00:30:55
Speaker
Sure. yeah But I also think the newer movies are not as good. And the newer movies, Batman's also whipping out like a shotgun. Yeah, yeah, it's true. He's.
00:31:05
Speaker
like and branding people and he's branding people so they die in prison at least in the the reeves and the matt reeves one all he's doing is beating the hell out of people which batman does like famously he's he's arkham asylum like arkham yeah that's that's not the one i'm referring to i am referring to specifically the critiques on on the snyder verse and batman's murdery ways but i'm saying if we're if we're kind of like And I am in no means defending the Snyderverse. But if you want to like, kind of be like, oh, here's the scale of violence. Like, yeah, we're maybe three steps above 60. Like, i would go out and on a limb and say Batman the Animated Series is way more violent than 89 Batman Returns.
00:31:54
Speaker
I wouldn't say way more. I would say it's as it's violent. I'll put it this way. As a cartoon, these movies are cartoonishly more violent. Yes. Or more cartoonishly violent. But the cartoons like Batman, the animated series picks up in like what? 90 was at 93, 94, somewhere around there. I forget what year that's. Whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. Those feel very much so in this universe, like in the Tim Burton art deco. But I'm saying more like, especially in this movie and as you move forward,
00:32:28
Speaker
Like it's so it it is like cartoony comic book violence, whereas like so you don't even think of it as like Batman's murdering people. You almost think it's like.
00:32:40
Speaker
that is week people like kind of murder themselves in a way i'll i'll tell i'll tell you this like again like having just watched this with two children neither of them batted an eye at how batman like like no questions asked like they nothing felt like off to them the way that like batman dispatches bad guys you know like we'll go back to the guy with the dynamite like batman almost tricks him into like Yeah, dynamite on them.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's true. um So it's it's like wasn't Batman just carrying the dynamite trying to figure out where he was going to put it. It was kind of like that's Batman. six got it from one offield Yeah, it's like.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, he rips it off. like Wasn't it one of the motorcycles? Yes. And then he's like, what do I do with this? rid of a bomb. Yeah. No, you stick it to a clown and throw down a well. That's how you get rid of a bomb. He stuck it to the strong man. He stuck it to... can't remember his name now.
00:33:35
Speaker
To Bull Hurley from the top. but Yeah, I think that's the difference. And like, also, nobody's like, oh, your friend's name is Bruce Wayne, too? Let's be friends. Like...
00:33:50
Speaker
ah ah let's Let's form a super group together, except you're dead. um But when you come back to Earth from from the grave, I will have to calm you down from your murderous rage. Yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
Of which I share with you. Murderous rage. um and And Martha. Don't forget about Martha. ah So, but this, this, so this movie, though, does in in one way, like as it diverts from the comic books, it does continue the trend of Tim Burton kind of building his own version of this universe. You know, in the first movie has, has the Joker as, know,
00:34:32
Speaker
um instead of Joe Chill, right? Like the Joker is the murderer of Batman's parents, which was the first time this that version of this story was told that way, um which has since has been like co-opted by the comics. Sometimes. Yeah. And in some of the storylines, yeah, um ah it's been the Red Hood, which the Joker in some stories has been the original Red Hood as well. um Failed comedian. But ah yeah, ah the we the kind of like that one. so It almost it almost ah works as kind of like an Elseworlds package of of Batman, like an Elseworlds story. um
00:35:10
Speaker
But yeah, in terms of like the beats of this movie, so Batman's got a new... ah He has new... a new costume in this in this film compared to the original it's got some updates to the armor updates to the batman logo batman logo kind of becomes the one that's most synonymous now with batman without with without the kind of extra lines on it if you will um still can't turn his neck still can't turn his neck but it's amazing watching watching and watching a grown man have to go like this every time
00:35:42
Speaker
He turned his whole body, whole body. um I mean, if we have a stick, if any of us have a stiff neck, that's all we have to do. So, yeah, it's true. them ah Dave, Max Shrek, that's a new character for the Batman universe as well in this sureness film. um Do you have any any info on that? Any intel on on that or just it was oh seems like it was walking from day one. like Yeah.
00:36:06
Speaker
um Yeah. And first first mention here of the the McFarlane
Max Shreck Action Figure Release
00:36:10
Speaker
figures. So for the first time in the line, ah Max Shrek figure. Yeah.
00:36:17
Speaker
Been ah very, ah very long. ah long uh long period without an action figure for him so mcfarlane in this latest wave uh finally brings us max shrek one of the um the guy pulling the strings if you will uh he is the yeah such a such a good suit look look at that it's just nothing move this nothing says early 80s mid 80s quite like that And you get one of the greatest alternate expressions of all time ah in his electrocuted head from the end of the film.
00:36:53
Speaker
That is his lone accessory. And when this is your accessory, you really don't need much else. Hey, hey Eric, how did i how did my niece respond to that part? My youngest niece. um So as Batman's peeling back the... ah the sheet metal looking for Selena and you see just this staring at you. Um, my four year old daughter just went, like, just like laughed at the, uh,
00:37:20
Speaker
at the face was pretty awesome. Oh, that's awesome. She's definitely my daughter. It's so good. but um but yeah, a awesome character. ah Christopher Walken just being Christopher Walken like it's just devouring every scene that he's in. Yeah. What's what's the term? Chewing, ah chewing on the scenery, chewing the scenery. Yeah, he's not you no devour like yeah absolutely.
00:37:46
Speaker
ah yeah like ah Like a man who's not who who's on a hunger strike. Like, devoured those scenes. And now, a word from our sponsors.
00:38:02
Speaker
This segment is brought to you by our friends at Chubsy Wubsy Toys. A traditional mom and pop toy store in Little Falls, New Jersey, Chubsy Wubsy Toys brings you the best new toys from the brands you love without the hassle of pounding the pavement searching for them at larger retail stores.
00:38:18
Speaker
Visit them in person at their brand new home at 101 Newark Pompton Turnpike Suite 1 in Little Falls, New Jersey, or online at chubzywubzy.com.
00:38:31
Speaker
That's
00:38:37
Speaker
And tell them Adventures in Collecting sent you.
00:38:43
Speaker
And now, back to the show.
00:39:16
Speaker
Now, here's an here's an interesting thing. So Catwoman, you know, i obviously portrayed by Michelle Pfeiffer, who has now a long history in superhero
Casting Catwoman: Michelle Pfeiffer
00:39:28
Speaker
movies. She's eventually found herself into the Marvel Universe as well as ah as Janet Van Dyne. ah But it almost ah potentially couldn't or almost potentially could have been somebody else. Right, Dave? So there were many people that were up for a Catwoman and I could run down the list, but.
00:39:48
Speaker
Pardon me, originally cast was Annette Bening. Oh, wow. Who was originally cast as Catwoman, but had to withdraw due to pregnancy, due to becoming pregnant. So the list goes Ellen Barkin, Cher, Bridget Fonda, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Madonna, Julie Newmar, believe it or not.
00:40:11
Speaker
Lena Olin, Susan Sarandon, Raquel Welsh, and somebody who I don't know if she was necessarily up for the role, but was definitely um trying to politic herself for the role. Famously was Sean Young, um who showed up not only to the Joan Rivers show.
00:40:32
Speaker
ah in costume to try to get the role, but famously showed up to to Warner Brothers Studios to meet with Tim Burton in costume wow to the point where Tim Burton hid and refused to speak to her um because he was terrified that this was going on. And so um Michael Keaton and another executive had to discuss her her intentions on what Catwoman would be to her with.
00:41:07
Speaker
with Imagine. young Imagine being able to terrify Tim Burton. Right. Like, I don't know if it was like kind of like a one that I would imagine there was a lot of attempted contact.
00:41:22
Speaker
I guess. Yeah. and that Like, where's the line? I guess her showing up to the studio was the line. um But eventually Michelle Pfeiffer got the role and. um absolutely knocked it out of the park to the point where she learned martial arts. She learned combat training. She learned um how to utilize a whip.
00:41:47
Speaker
And we have, I don't know, Eric, Eric, Yeah, we got some behind the scenes footage here So um the scene when she is in the shopping mall before shortly before blowing it up, there is a scene where she whips the head off of three mannequins. So this scene was actually done in a single take.
00:42:09
Speaker
um And the stunt actress who was on set ready to rip for this, i basically deferred to Michelle Pfeiffer since she had been doing so much training. And needless to say, she ah lets it whip. So here you can check it out.
00:42:47
Speaker
And it's pretty amazing. That's so's amazing. And the best part about that is like once cut is yelled, like the standing ovation she gets. Yeah, the clip the clip that I have cuts off just before then, unfortunately. But ah yeah, i just truly remarkable performance from her, like unhinged.
00:43:08
Speaker
She plays both Selina Kyle and Catwoman, you know, does that really great job of juggling how, you know, they start off as different people and like slowly like that line starts to blur between where Catwoman ends and Selina Kyle begins and vice versa. And of course you have that. um and just like the trauma of it all as well like dealing with walking with the old max track and you know tim burn's always good about uh hiding social commentary in his in his films so like you we're talking early 90s being a woman in the workplace you know everything that was kind of going on culturally at the time she is is a perfect uh kind of analog for know telling that that story um as my my lovely wife pointed out and we were watching this movie uh the last night or two nights ago um the masquerade scene the only two people the masquerade not wearing masks are bruce wayne and selena kyle because they are wearing their masks um
00:44:13
Speaker
because they are they think of themselves more as Batman and Catwoman. So by not wearing a mask, they are, in fact, metaphorically wearing a mask. So, ah yeah, really just some some really cool imagery throughout the film. um As we mentioned, the the kind of art deco world of Gotham City that was sort of defined in the first movie, and you you don't really see a whole lot of it. You know you get to see it kind of you know in bits and pieces is on full display here in in this movie.
Gotham's Art Deco Influence
00:44:42
Speaker
the the you know sequences with the Christmas tree um in Gotham all of the stuff going on in in their version of Central Park at the zoo and the underground like really kind of all sound stages in England yep amazing um done the old school way which is incredible when you when you think about it but it's interesting because too when you watch it when you watch the first two movies Gotham City seems so small and that's why
00:45:11
Speaker
um But they couldn't film a Batman movie like in a city then. no no, not not back then. Definitely. they couldn't They couldn't film a Friday the 13th movie in Manhattan.
00:45:26
Speaker
It's true. Would they film one scene there? Right. Yeah. Like and they had to like do everything within their power to like basically bust Jason out at the right time and then hide him quickly.
00:45:39
Speaker
So that way people wouldn't. Yeah. Like just ruin the movie, basically ruin the movie worse. I guess the the entire city that Tim Burton built of this Gotham had like spawned out the entirety of. And you said it before, Batman, the animated series was just all of that.
00:45:59
Speaker
You know, and then Schumacher tried to emulate it and it didn't work, in my opinion, in a lot of times. But, you know, he added more color. yeah got That that art deco Gotham was still there. But instead of just like the grays and dark blues and blacks, like he started adding neon and red yeahs and things. Yeah. But like the bones were still there. It still felt like that Gotham City. It was just kind of lit differently. Yeah.
00:46:25
Speaker
But but yeah, between 89 and returns like that's very much so the same like gritty Gotham City that you know, kind of developed. um I love if you're if you're watching this on YouTube, which by the way, thank you for watching on YouTube. um You'll see behind Dave that just those two, the massive like almost Anne Rand style, you know, giant Art Deco statues um pulling the levers. Yeah. Yeah. Behind the behind the Christmas tree. it' just like so iconic. Yeah.
00:46:55
Speaker
And I think that's the other reason to these movies get a bit more leeway is they age well. Like, yes, there is the nostalgia of them, but like you can also watch it now and, you know, new generations and everything like that. And it's they're still good.
00:47:17
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's it's remarkable how well this movie any and 89 for that matter, um how how Well, they really do hold up. And a lot of that comes down to, i think, two main things. One, which is what we've been talking about, the the that Tim Burton stylization of things, because if you look at his catalog of movies in general, like anything from from that time period, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, they exist in a time period, but they don't.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yep. he He is so good about creating, really like creating a tangible world where these films exist, where you could plop it into any decade and it it makes sense because it's so like...
00:47:59
Speaker
disorientingly different than the real world that it just kind of works. And then plus on top of it, you have these incredible performances from, you know, Michael Keaton and, you know, Danny DeVito and Michelle Pfeiffer and Christopher Walken. know, like all all of these, these actors are dialed into that world perfectly where like it just, it makes sense. It all carries over. it doesn't necessarily feel dated because there's no. Yeah. I mean, look, you look at,
00:48:28
Speaker
You look at 89, you look at this movie, even just looking at the cars that they're driving are way older than the 90s, way older than 89. But it doesn't feel weird.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yep. Even like the style of dress. Yeah. like everyone's kind of dressed like it's like, is it the 30s? Is it the four? also kind of modern. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:52
Speaker
Like the opening of 89. You know, you have the the kid in there and his parents walking down like, you you know, thinking that that's Bruce and his his parents. It's like, no, this is this is today. This is Batman. hating This is in 1989. Like, you'll never like, you just never know.
00:49:08
Speaker
yeah Yep. Now, one of the things that about both. oh Speaking of which, like funny side story, um yeah Danny Elfman almost did not come back.
00:49:18
Speaker
Oh, geez. That would do the mood music because he was worried about um once again being upstaged by a pop musician. Oh, my God.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah. It's just so funny when you think about it, because like as much as Party Man and and Trust are amazing songs in in that movie, him his scandalous as well his batman's theme like his batman theme is right up there with the theme of star wars the theme of superman like some of john williams and you know even like now like looking like han zimmer and uh alan sylvestri like all these main like major composers the batman theme is right there like it's right up with all of those I mean, Danny Elfman has done like two of my favorite superhero themes, Spider-Man. Oh yeah. and that Spider-Man. tweet Yeah, it's true. It's true. um
00:50:14
Speaker
So what I was going to say is, you know, for, for a movie that's as, as dark as this, right? Like, toys are kind of tough so the good news is uh kenner continued their their license with batman um at launching the follow-up to their smash uh 89 toy line which actually came out in 1990 and 1991 um which then transitioned over to uh batman returns so the first wave here i remember that penguin Toy Biz had ah one line for 89 before Kenner took over and then released their own 89 line um following Toy Biz.
90s Batman Toys and Playsets
00:50:59
Speaker
um So we're looking right here at wave of one. So ah as it was always the case, you would get one Batman figure that was classic ah Batman. In this case, that was Thunder Whip, the Batman um who had his very movie accurate ah Asian throwing star and um and battering with.
00:51:25
Speaker
Um, this was, this is, this part here is actually a giant battering. da Oh yeah. Connected to color on the, on the floor that just doesn't help. But what was always the fun thing with Kenner was they just did whatever they wanted to do. So, um, we've got fire bolt Batman. Uh, we've got skyrocket Batman. Uh, the second iteration of the Bruce Wayne quick change figure.
00:51:53
Speaker
And then, uh, Dave, we have a very strange looking Robin figure yeah in the first wave. And I actually have my original Robin figure here. So going to pull that up while you're telling us a little bit about why this Robin figure exists in the first place. So it does have the new Tim Drake-ness of it, of it all going on.
00:52:17
Speaker
um As far as the costume goes, especially that Robin logo. Oh yeah. um But... Joey, you know who do you know who was originally cast to be Robin in the films? Yes, I do. it was ah Was it Marlon, right? Marlon Wayans? Marlon Wayans. Yeah, Marlon Wayans. He was originally cast as Robin and received a two-picture deal from Warner warner Brothers for presumably Batman Returns and Batman 3, whatever that was going to be.
00:52:44
Speaker
um Costumes and sets were created, um so the... I whole thing was Robin was going to be a mechanic named Robin who helped Batman um get the Batmobile back in working order after the whole Penguin deal.
00:53:02
Speaker
um Yes. And the character was removed at the last moment from the final script. Marlon Wayans still receives residual residuals to this day from the movie because of his contract and the figure.
00:53:17
Speaker
was created um in order to represent Marlon Wayans in the film.
00:53:25
Speaker
So this figure, this figure has, it has the, the Marlon Wayans, uh, I guess you would call that a high and tight, right? Yeah. Um, uh, that would be a, a, a high flat top fade, a high flat top fade. Thank you. Um, but yeah, uh,
00:53:44
Speaker
always wondered why Robin had such a unique haircut that Robin typically doesn't have in the comic books when I was a kid. ah That's because it was supposed to be Marlon Wayans. Yeah, I was always like, Tim Drake has kind of the spiky hair. Did they just not were not able to accurately recreate that? um They didn't give him the Dick Grayson bowl cut. So like, what was the deal? And it was because it was Marlon Wayans. Yeah, which is crazy. um And then you'll also notice that the penguin figure in wave one, ah like I mentioned at the top of the show, does not look like Danny DeVito. It is instead a repainted superpowers.
00:54:21
Speaker
figure um this umbrella does make a very brief appearance in the film um it's one of the ones that he takes out towards the end of the film as he is in his throes of death and he says ah crap i picked a cute one Um, or oh I think it's oh shit. I picked a cute one. Uh, it is. it is the black, red and and white umbrella ah is is can be seen in that scene.
00:54:48
Speaker
The one he actually picks has like dangly things coming off of it. But um it's like a mobile. Yeah. Yeah. But you can see this umbrella. Um, so I continuing with the figures. I you have power wing Batman, laser Batman, which was one of my favorites as a kid. Air attack Batman. Deep dive. Batman and then the Batman figure that is very near and dear to my heart as being the weirdest possible thing a Batman could wear is all white um and that is Arctic Batman they did it in Batman and Robin kind of yeah ah this just to me is the strangest possible thing that the Dark Knight could wear this figure is is very near and dear to my heart and is always on my desk judging me
00:55:35
Speaker
The modern McFarlane superpowers recreated the gold one power wing. Yep. Power wing. I had Eric Beck. And also just i like I know it's just the bottom half of his face. And I feel like we've said this before, but like it that is a really good cartoony Michael Keaton.
00:55:54
Speaker
Like it's there. You know, you know which Batman that is. I like that. Laser Batman had like a weird texture to him because that wasn't pain. Yeah, that was more. I mean, that was like that's armored Spider-Man. That's like the same.
00:56:07
Speaker
The same. Pretty much. um moving Moving along through the original toys, we have the Batmissile Batmobile, which is one of the kind of iconic moments in the film when ah when the Penguin takes over the Batmobile and and Batman is forced to um to fight back to take it, which would have been the moment where, as Dave mentioned, um Robin came into play. I actually still have my original one right here, and it still works. I'll pop the sides off so that way you can see. But um when you're playing with it, when...
00:56:38
Speaker
Do the missiles still work? Oh, those are long gone, Dave. i don't know what you still have. Gotta find them on eBay, man. Those are long gone. Are they in there? no no they're not in there Um, i was going say, it wouldn't have shocked me if they were to be honest. Yeah. Glasses. I out.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Um, I loved this thing. I love the way that it looks in, in the movie. Um, the, the toy actually functions really well, where if you're rolling this on the ground and you, and you smash this button, it launches the sides off and continues to roll. So like, if you were pushing it and hit the button and kept pushing it, it would, it would basically do what it did in the movie, which is, which is really cool. Um,
00:57:19
Speaker
Some fun deco inside the ah inside the vehicle. You get the control panel there. ah Yeah, um this this was this was my Batmobile. I liked it better than the first, like the toy of the original Batmobile too. Yeah, the Toy Biz well yeah toy bi one was a little rough. um But yeah, this this has that that classic, yeah once once you put it together,
00:57:45
Speaker
You know, it really does just so kind of feel that shell always broke and the arrows or I'm sorry, the it had the missile silo to, I guess, or the missile like compartments. And those always never stayed in like these at least didn't break. ah You also had seen in the film the altering bat ski boat.
00:58:06
Speaker
That's that's a boat. It's Russian. With retractable skis and firing torpedoes. I also had this. This did not survive.
00:58:16
Speaker
this This broke into a million pieces. It is long gone. um But it is a really cool vehicle. he you know In the film, he crashes this up through the sewers and decapitates the Penguins' duck mobile.
00:58:32
Speaker
But ah yeah, really really cool vehicle. ah Speaking of the duck mobile. ah You did not get the duck mobile, but instead you got the umbrella jet, which I don't know if this was a repaint of a, of a superpowers thing. I don't know if the, if the penguin had a superpowers vehicle. I, um, I'm not, not entirely sure, but it ah it does also spray knockout gas for some reason. Um,
00:58:56
Speaker
which sure. Of course it does. Kenner going to Kenner. um You also got the Batman Sky Drop. This was a really cool ah vehicle. This was meant to be ah something that somebody else was pilot piloting, probably Robin, um and Batman could hang off the bottom from a ah from a a a thing on a rope.
00:59:21
Speaker
um And then... Kind of the greatest Batcave. So I this is the Batcave that I still have. um It is not in any sort of condition that's worth that was worth pulling out and showing you guys versus just this picture. But this is my favorite. I don't think there was a Penguin original.
00:59:42
Speaker
This is arguably considered to be the best version of this Batcave. i think so. Wayne Manor. The colorway on it. the i For those unfamiliar, this Batcave came out several times over in the 90s. The first iteration of it was for the 89 movie, and the back section was painted to be Ace Chemicals, which made the most...
01:00:10
Speaker
or access chemicals, excuse me, which made the most sense based on how it looked. This time it just gets repainted as something that is like very frozen over and meant to look like the frozen sections of the ah the sewers um in the middle. You get a drive through ah where one side is supposed to look like the inside of Wayne Manor, which is what you're seeing here.
01:00:33
Speaker
And then ah the other side is the inside of the Batcave with the quick change chamber for Bruce Wayne to turn into Batman, um as well as the Batcave control center. or command center. And, uh, each time that this came out, it was given a fresh coat of paint, um, and fresh decals to depict whatever media it was meant to connect to. So initially this had pictures of like the Joker and, you know, the, the, the kind of newscast, um, of when he was taking over Gotham, uh, here it is replaced with images of, uh, the penguin and, uh, and his, uh,
01:01:16
Speaker
mayoral run. i also do think the skylight doubling as a handle. Yep. Up here. i don't know if there's a better picture of this. Hang on. Let's see. Yeah, you can see it up here. So when you closed it, um when it folded up,
01:01:32
Speaker
uh, you could pop these two lights, but these skylights, somebody fly through them. Like, yeah, but when you wanted to carry it, you just popped the lights down and you had a handle, but yeah, it it was a full, it was a full play set. Cause again, you know, this was designed for the 89 film and it was designed to have, to be the point where the Joker breaks into Wayne Manor and, you know, beats up Batman.
01:01:55
Speaker
Uh, also Axis Chemicals. You know, it was it was meant to be kind of a three in one play set and it continued to be that until they stopped making it. um Great play set.
01:02:06
Speaker
and does his ah Does his bat computer come with a CD-ROM that when, you know, you touch it, it actually does a record scratch for some reason. like i was I always thought of the this command center more as like the Six Flags stunt show. right place yeah okay so for those not in the new jersey new york area um six flags great adventure it's still there the set is still there if you go and you go back by the wonder woman lasso of truth ride and you look through the gates you can still see a very amazing set if there's ever wrestling held there um that's where the wrestling is
01:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's I hope they bring it back because they have they've rebuilt a lot of the DC stuff there. They could they could totally bring the stunt show back. I think um I think for a company that's barely hanging on, I don't think a stunt show is cross cost prohibitive.
01:03:00
Speaker
but uh i just like hanging on by a thread have some um have some uh single carded uh you know just pictures here again and how these how these figures came carded beautiful card art i always loved the the kind of um ombre i guess you could say from the the orange to the blue was really really cool uh arrow strike batman this was the gold one um that uh became kind of the the one of the more famous.
01:03:30
Speaker
ah Then, of course, you had Catwoman, who was in wave two, and that's another one. um Whereas Penguin was extremely inaccurate to the film, they did a pretty good job with Catwoman back in the day. And I did i actually have have her right here.
01:03:47
Speaker
All these years later, her action feature was her whipping arm. Yep. And mine still works.
01:03:58
Speaker
And it ah if if I still had the whip, it does actually she she hung on to the whip and it did. It would actually slap against the ground and make like a a whip noise, too. um Also, incredibly easy to find in stores.
01:04:15
Speaker
um So difficult. Like really? Oh, I can only imagine what our parents went through getting trying to find two of those.
01:04:27
Speaker
Of course, you had the penguins. I still have one of mine. I don't know what happened to the other emperor penguin that came in the two pack, but penguins with missiles on them. This is, again, that that penguin figure, which feels extremely out of place, but is, I guess, definitely more.
01:04:45
Speaker
I mean, on one hand, his ah his mayoral painting that they had behind him was is this. hard it that Pretty damn close.
01:04:58
Speaker
There's that Robin figure. And I actually still have the grappling hook and launcher, too. It's I'm staring. I'm staring at it that I do have for some reason. And there's just a close up of that. And then that boom that's the original.
01:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The close up of the the figure. Yeah. No, but the original proto. Yes. Yeah. No, I mean, not far off from what we ended up getting.
01:05:24
Speaker
So I was gonna say that maybe was to say the skin tone is a little different on the final. This is this is faded on where? But yeah, also the picture, that that picture is just not great. um Which brings us to modern day. So McFarlane Toys and here in 2025, all these years later, dedicated an entire wave and a deluxe ah vehicle ah to the movie, to Batman
Review: McFarlane's 'Batman Returns' Figures
01:05:51
Speaker
Returns. So um here is the GameStop exclusive underwear penguin with his duck mobile from from the the end of the film. Is that what it's actually called?
01:06:05
Speaker
No, I just call it. I just call it underwear penguin. I mean, that's not long John penguin, long John, long John penguin. um But the rest of the wave I actually have ah on hand here. So from that penguin to the ah the classic penguin, they did a really, really nice job with the likenesses on all of these figures. You'll see that kind of across the way.
01:06:27
Speaker
um The soft goods material is like a really thick, like felt material. I don't know how well it's coming across on camera there, but it's not like your typical McFarlane soft goods. um They did a really, really nice job making it like a thick coat. um The detail and wash on the figure itself, like just all the detail on his, his vest. um The hat is removable. It looks fantastic with that. um And the hat even has like, i don't you could see it in the back of the hair there.
01:07:02
Speaker
It's got a little groove. So that way the hat sits um film accurate on his head, which is awesome. um The penguin commandos.
01:07:15
Speaker
So there was a three pack of these as well. So you get large, medium, medium. and small penguin, the rockets on their backs are all removable. Um, these are mostly just kind of, uh,
01:07:32
Speaker
three p yeah um not even three i don't think there's any head movement no it's two poa um yeah and the feet don't move either so uh these though come with the greatest accessory well they were also mcfarland toy store exclusives yes so in the back of the package when you open them you cannot see that at least i didn't see it in the package when was opening it when you open the package you get this guy um And this is the coat, the the black coat from ah the end of the film that Underwear Penguin wears um after he has been ah exposed by Batman as the the grifter and fraud um and villain that he is.
01:08:16
Speaker
ah And in order to show you that this coat belongs with this penguin, the fine folks at McFarlane Toys made a cardboard cutout of their underwear penguin figure and placed it gently inside the coat.
01:08:30
Speaker
um Now, I do not have the the duck or underwear penguin, nor do I plan on adding that to my collection. um Space is is a real premium these days. um But instead, i now get to display the coat.
01:08:49
Speaker
and the cardboard cutout um which i like to think that in the penguin's lair that's how he keeps his coat it's on a cardboard cutout of himself it's just so good just so it's just so good um yeah and then uh and then kind of the the two the two like i would say highlights of of the set um I mean, to the like by far best figure in the wave. The the Michelle Pfeiffer likeness is truly remarkable. um All of the detail and deco on this, the stitching, um
01:09:28
Speaker
it's just, it's really amazing down to even the shapes on her fingers to be those, whatever she uses for her, her nails that she keeps, uh, they were, uh, weren't they sewing? Yeah. They were like sewing needles, sewing things. Yeah. Um, but yeah, she, she looks fantastic. I mean that, that likeness is, is spot on. It's the, the same exact expression that she's making in the poster. the eye holes being different sizes. Like, yeah, it's, it's, it's ah it's remarkable. Necessarily centered.
01:09:58
Speaker
And then we have a massive upgrade for Batman. So ah this is the the Batman Returns. I just have them here next to the original one. You can see the original one from 89 has the kind of different logo there, but also has a fully turnable head, which really kind of ruins the silhouette of the mask there.
01:10:20
Speaker
um it wasn't like super noticeable to me until somebody called it out. And then seeing it next to the correct silhouette is just, yeah. I mean, you you could see it's ah it's a it's ah it's a night and day difference. um And you get the more iconic logo ah from Batman Returns there, the brighter yellow, the more simple Bat logo design, as well as the kind of reworked more... armor...
01:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, the armor. ah just Just an overall really, really great figure. And and of course, now they they are they're doing wired capes with everybody. So um my only critique on this figure is the cape could have been a little bit longer. But ah yeah. I don't remember it being that long, though, in Batman Returns.
01:11:08
Speaker
And then we saw it earlier, but there's Max Schreck one more time. ah christopher Christopher Walken. So really, really solid wave of figures ah with... you know, McFarlane um leaving the DC world in ah in 2026. You know, they're they're certainly going out with a bang by offering a wave of like this, um you know, towards towards the very end here. ah Hopefully they revisit.
01:11:35
Speaker
We'd love to see, you know, if if if you watched our New York Comic Con coverage, we did have the opportunity to talk with Todd for a little bit. And we did ask about 89 specifically. We asked about 89 Joker and ah that would be it would be incredible if they managed to get something ah something out before they're before they're fully done.
01:11:59
Speaker
So, yeah, if you were in, um I was trying to think about it, like, what would you do as a wave with that? Because you could redo Batman. Yeah. Yeah. You could redo Batman, get him the better.
01:12:09
Speaker
Vicki Vale would love a Kim Basinger, Vicki Vale, figure Bob the goon. Gotta to have a goon. I mean, ah i would love, ah I would even love, ah ah oh my God, I'm not liking his name. No, not Jack Palance. He needs grant. Oh, Knox, yeah. Yeah, Knox needs a grant. Yeah, give me an alex Alexander Knox figure. And get Knox a grant.
01:12:34
Speaker
but You could even do just like Joker Goon. Like one of the guys. Bob the Goon. Well, no, I mean one of the guys. No, that. I want the guy with the boombox. Yeah, boombox guy. Yeah, that's a good guy. The Jack dude. That he fights in the Belfry.
01:12:49
Speaker
But also, I think... You could also do two versions of the Joker. You could do this. The classic like the the purple suit, like the end of the movie, purple suit and um the museum Joker.
01:13:05
Speaker
Absolutely. You could even do the one where he's with the mimes. where it's all Yeah. Now you don't want there. was it There was a there was a hot toys that was that did that. I think there was somebody did make that. You know what? um ah If I if you're doing like.
01:13:20
Speaker
secondary characters for that. Palance would be a good one. But I also think Alicia would be good. Yeah. Interesting. just Eckhart. Oh, man.
01:13:32
Speaker
Yeah. Think about the future. Gordon. I think I think Pat Hingle because he could go with any of the movies then at that point. Yeah. um They've already done Michael Goff, but I mean, they could they could re-release Alfred, too. That wouldn't be a bad thing.
01:13:47
Speaker
But I do. You wouldn't even need to like this for Alicia because she's got the mask. Yeah. Yep. Yep. But um I think with that, we we have we have talked at length about Batman Returns here, fellas. ah Before we before we sign off, what are your final thoughts about Batman
Enduring Appeal of 'Batman Returns'
01:14:06
Speaker
Returns? I guess let's say final thoughts. And and do you recommend that people watch this movie? um Candy Pants, why don't you start off, Joey?
01:14:15
Speaker
I'll start with the absolutely I recommend people to watch this movie. I think everybody should watch this movie twice. Maybe even three times. Watch it every Christmas. um Is it in your list, Joe?
01:14:30
Speaker
You know I might have taken it off this year because of how many times I've done it. um And I just Joey. Joey famously does ah Halloween and Christmas themed movie lists for October and December, respectively.
01:14:47
Speaker
And I do a piece of art for each one. I think considering you just had to watch this for this episode of the podcast, like you can to you I actually didn't have to. You want to know what's really funny?
01:14:58
Speaker
Before you asked me to to do this, I watched this like maybe three days before. before Wow. asked to do this I was sitting and just I was working and I just, you know. Yeah, I've watched it recently enough for it, but also the one who led Vicky Valen to the Batcave. You know, I'm sitting there working in. Hey, oh, hey, Vic.
01:15:17
Speaker
Great, great line. And the only reference to her to basically be like, yeah, we know. No, there's two two references. There's two references. He talks about her with ah um Selena. lena Oh, speaking of which, that scene at the end of the movie.
01:15:34
Speaker
Oh, yeah, where she shows back up. Yeah. um She was originally, you know, to have died with the electricity. And because test audiences We're like, where is she? Like.
01:15:49
Speaker
They had to in order to respond to test audiences, they reshot like it was like a one day at the end of shooting. Michelle Pfeiffer was already gone. They had to use the stunt performer.
01:16:01
Speaker
Also, um I forgot to mention Catwoman does come with a taser. with taser which is that's really good. So that is, that is not Michelle Pfeiffer in that last, uh, scene of the film.
01:16:12
Speaker
And I, and if you are at all curious, like, like Dave mentioned before, if you wanted to see what, what would have originally happened between what we got in Batman returns and what was originally planned, you can go and read the incredible Batman 89 comic that explores that story. It's amazing. I think it's probably collected at this point. Like it's probably in an, in a, in a ah trade Well, but because it retcons like the future, I think it's just it's supposed to have been what happened. yeah Well, they also released. I think it's a novel. I don't think it's a graphic novel. It's a novel of what the original Batman three was going to be with um Catwoman staying involved and ah the Riddler, which would have been played by Robin Williams. Robin Williams. Yeah.
01:16:59
Speaker
So and Billy Dee Williams back as two face. Yeah, i have I have the Batman 89 comic and the Superman 79 collected. It's just they're so good. Yeah.
01:17:10
Speaker
Yeah. If you're if you're fans of this universe, definitely worth checking those out. um And I will take that opportunity to absolutely say, yes, you should watch this movie. um And my final thoughts on it are Every time I watch this, there's something new that I notice about it. um This time it was actually something funny. I noticed a production mistake in the film.
01:17:31
Speaker
um At the end, when the penguins are pushing Penguin into the water down the the little ramp, um if you watch very carefully, when the body hits the water, you will also see a small um sled on wheels that...
01:17:50
Speaker
falls out from underneath the body and yeah, like a little dolly and sinks to the bottom. Um, so they never edited that out. Uh, it is still in there and, uh, minimal CG in this movie. A lot of it's practical.
01:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, practical and um and what's what's the, I don't know what the ah the technical term for it is, but when they like superimpose live action footage on top of, yeah, like the bat because like the stuff with the bats, those are real bats, they're just matted, you know, over things. Yeah.
01:18:24
Speaker
it's It's a recommend for me to like it's it's definitely one of my favorites, if not my favorite Batman movie as well. Dark Knight also up there, but. um I leave the house, so we'll go with Batman Returns. um Dark Knight's my second favorite for what it's worth.
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's my second favorite, too, really. Like those are one and for number one for each series. Lego Batman is like my favorite. But also Lego Batman is a great, too. Great pick. um But yeah, this is one I've seen actually, of course, in theaters when I was a kid at the Lincoln. I think it's Lincoln Triplex in Clifton, New Jersey. um But also.
01:19:11
Speaker
I've seen the like shown I think I've gone twice to the Alamo Drafthouse when they've shown it. um I also went to the Smod Castle to see it. And Kevin Smith did like.
01:19:23
Speaker
Let's talk about it was a watch with Kev, so it was like, all right, let's talk about it. And he did like a. As much of a Q&A as he could do.
01:19:35
Speaker
having not been involved in the making of the film, but as like a Batman fan and stuff like that. So that was really cool too. Yeah, yeah. Did you guys do the re-release in AMC? Because I missed it. It was on um like a Monday and I'm like, I i can't do this. it was it was digital. So i yeah, I didn't bother.
01:19:54
Speaker
I've seen it in 35 at the draft. That's like when I watched it. Smodcastle, it was digital as well. But the Kevin Smith was the draw there. I'm not going to AMC to watch Batman Returns in digital. Oh, yeah, I could stay home and watch it for free on digital.
01:20:08
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. um Yeah. So with that, this has been another episode of Toys on Film. Toys on Film.
01:20:24
Speaker
And I'm sure we'll be back with a another episode of this at some point. These are always super fun to do and you guys seem to really like them. So um that being said, is there a movie that you want to see us tackle? um Go ahead and leave your suggestions in the comments on YouTube, ah on on Instagram, wherever you're wherever you're watching this. I just realized you were asking the public. Yeah, not yeah actually. I actually thought of one. Right. Well, we could talk about that later. yeah um There's one that I would love to do, but I don't want to subject Dave to having to watch a movie that I know he hates. um Transformers, isn't it?
01:21:02
Speaker
No. I think I know, but is it Ghost Rider? No. ah There's like two toys made for that movie. I hate it, though. That's...
01:21:14
Speaker
and the The movie is Small Soldiers, which we should we should do at some point. I love that movie. I don't hate Small Soldiers. I thought you hated that movie.
01:21:26
Speaker
i don't think it's as like I don't think it has the... oh no. I know which one you hate. you hate toys. Yeah, because it's just well, as an adult, I love toys or I think it's an interesting movie. As a kid, I was like, this isn't about toys. Like because that would be another fun one to do, too. But no, small soldiers is the one we got to do. Yeah.
01:21:48
Speaker
Small soldiers is a good one. Yeah. But ah yeah, I guess with that, Dave, it's time to
Closing Remarks and Credits
01:21:54
Speaker
send us home. So sorry. Yeah. Send us home. um Joey, give me your best walk in.
01:22:01
Speaker
Oh, Joey. Yeah. Walking us out of here. We can take a walk out of here whenever you want to go, but I'll push both of you out a higher window if you try to blackmail me.
01:22:13
Speaker
Thank you for hanging out with us today. Subscribe, rate, and review this podcast wherever you listen, and then tell your friends to do it. Thanks also to Joe Azari, the golden voice behind our intro. Learn more about him in the show notes.
01:22:26
Speaker
Our music is Game Boy Horror by the Zombie Danes. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Adventures in Collecting and on Twitter at AIC underscore podcast.
01:22:39
Speaker
Stop by and say hi. Show us your hauls and photos. Tell us your toy stories. Maybe we'll talk about it on a future episode.
01:22:51
Speaker
try this at home void where prohibited and some assembly required each sold separately not a flying toy consult a physician if your toy run exceeds more than four hours
01:23:00
Speaker
This has been a non-productive media presentation. Executive producer, Frank Hablaui. This program and many others like it on the Non-Productive Network is distributed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives License. Please share it, but ask before trying to change it or sell it. For more information, visit non-productive.com.