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Engineering Communication Across Power Differences
30 Plays11 days ago
In this episode, Dr. Jill Fennell sits down with Mike Tinskey, Professor of the Practice in Mechanical Engineering and Interim Associate Chair for Innovation and Entrepreneurship at Georgia Tech, to talk about best practices for communication across power differences in different engineering contexts.
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Show Notes and Timestamps
- 01:01 Intro to Topic and Guest
- 02:55 Defining Power Differences
- 07:53 Advice for new engineers regarding risk and consequences
- 09:56 The importance of Audience and Communicating Up in the workplace
- 13:46 Communicating to direct supervisors and asking questions without signaling incompetence
- 16:17 Communicating to Executives and how to present information effectively
- 19:45 Communicating upwards and clear signaling of informing versus requesting decisions
- 22:49 Students interacting with sponsors and advice for Capstone students
- 25:14 Lateral communications within power structures
- 28:56 Communicating with machinists and technicians and other specialised roles
- 30:50 Advice for how new engineers can demonstrate respect for experiential knowledge while also communicating their design goals
- 33:05 Advice for students as they navigate power differences for the first time
- 34:53 Importance of listening and receiving communication and the importance of engagement
- 39:20 Final advice for communicating across hierarchies
A transcript of this episode is available here.
Episode Edited by Lee Hibbard.
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Transcript
Communication Challenges for Engineers
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to season four of Communication Mechanics, a podcast for engineers. In this season, we're focusing on a reality many engineers experience early, but aren't always taught to name.
Purpose and Audience in Professional Communication
00:00:19
Speaker
And that is that communication is not just about clarity, it's about judgment.
00:00:24
Speaker
Engineers constantly make decisions about audience, purpose, power, and consequence, often before they feel fully prepared to do so. Across these episodes, we'll explore how engineers communicate as they enter professional spaces, work across hierarchies, solicit opportunities, and take on greater responsibility.
Impact of Communication on Identity and Growth
00:00:42
Speaker
Whether you're a student, a new engineer, or someone mentoring others, this season is about understanding how communication shapes not just what engineers say, but who they become as professionals.
00:01:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Communication Mechanics.
Ethics and Hierarchical Communication
00:01:03
Speaker
Today we are talking about how engineers communicate across power differences. Because engineers rarely communicate with people who have the same authority, expertise, or stakes in the solution, that imbalance matters. In and this episode, we're talking about how power differences shape engineering communication and how students and early career engineers can make thoughtful, ethical communication decisions when the stakes aren't equal.
Mike Tenske's Perspective on Academia and Industry
00:01:30
Speaker
Today I'm joined by Mike Tenske, our professor of the practice here in the Woodruff School at Georgia Tech. Welcome, Mike. Hi, Jill. Thank you for having me. Yeah, and you're, I think, maybe our only professor of the practice right now. I think so. Hope more to come. But yes, and I think I'm the only one to hold that title.
00:01:47
Speaker
So tell us a little bit about that practice. Yeah, so professor the practice is a relatively new position, but it's one of those opportunities where you can take somebody has experience within the industry and bring them into the classroom.
Teaching Electrification and Intrapreneurship
00:02:00
Speaker
And so that's what I try to do. I i teach courses that are based on my 30 years in the auto industry, both in terms of electrification, and I also teach a class in intrapreneurship. So this topic is is very close to my heart because i spent a lot of time within a big a big corporate entity.
00:02:19
Speaker
You're really the perfect person to talk to then for this episode because you have the experience of of talking with students and identifying with them on the the student to teacher level, but you also have the industry experience where you know as an engineer there's a lot of different spheres of influence that you have to communicate
Transitioning from Academia to Industry
00:02:37
Speaker
across.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's that's one of the biggest challenges, I think, going from an academic, say say you graduate and you go into a a corporate role, trying to understand how to communicate at all different levels of the organization, I think is absolutely key. And so I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you.
00:02:54
Speaker
Well, let's just start by talking about what we mean by power differences.
Navigating Power Dynamics in Engineering
00:02:59
Speaker
i feel like when we get our first job, sometimes we don't realize that we're stepping into political spaces. So what do you think students should know about the power differences, or maybe we want to call it something else, of industry as a new incoming engineer?
00:03:17
Speaker
Ooh, there's a lot to unpack there. So when we talk about communication, obviously, you know, there's a lot of different ways of communicating. And what what is that medium? is it Is it going to be an email? Is it going to be a conversation? It really, you know, our our students here at Georgia Tech,
00:03:35
Speaker
go into a lot of different roles. And so some of these answers are going to be role dependent. So I guess that's sort of the the disclaimer that it it sort of depends. But I will say this, I think what, like if I was giving advice about trying to communicate through an organization, I would always think about building the team.
Engaging Support Teams for Project Success
00:03:56
Speaker
Let me give you a couple of maybe an example. okay Like you've got your colleagues and your peers and you've got your managers and then you've got your support teams. so Many of those people don't report to you. Many of them are doing things that are perhaps not even directly related to the project you're working on. So for example, maybe I'm working on a new automotive system for autonomous driving, and there's a ah great person that is that is helping us that that is from IT, and that person doesn't necessarily know what the project is.
00:04:33
Speaker
My advice to anybody within you know entering a new corporation is really understand like if that person's mopping the floors or cleaning the bathrooms or doing IT work, these these other roles, as much as you can, bring them into the into the mix. Get them motivated. Get them excited.
00:04:51
Speaker
you know bring in like if If you were working on a ah CAD drawing and you have your CAD, maybe there's a designer, That designer doesn't know how that part functions or in the car. So bring them out to the vehicle.
00:05:03
Speaker
I'm giving automotive examples. But bring them out to the car vehicle and get them excited about what you're doing. those will pay That will pay dividends. So explaining to them what you're working on. And once again, I'm kind of going down in the power. And we can talk maybe a little bit more if you're going up into the power of the organization. But it's really important to acknowledge that not everybody knows what you're doing and how all those pieces come together.
Organizational Culture and Power Dynamics
00:05:27
Speaker
And the more you can communicate, the more you'll build the team and the more successful you'll be.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, I've um heard adage, don't know if you'd call it an adage, but a saying um that if you get hired you know as a boss in a new place, don't move the trash can until you buy until you know why it was there.
00:05:46
Speaker
Just because you're coming into a new space and maybe have more power than people who've been there for 20, 30 years. You need to be aware of the circumstances that you're bringing yourself into and think about how you can learn from the people who might be seen as lower down on the power scale.
00:06:07
Speaker
That's an interesting point. So you're saying your very first few days or few weeks or months, you know, how much do you take note of without necessarily taking action or communicating on? And how much do you take mental notes of, right? So I think there's some truth to what you just said. I think there's a lot of things that you you want to action right away, but maybe it's good to maybe absorb a little bit more.
00:06:31
Speaker
Don't move that trash can until you get a little bit more time under your belt. And then when you feel more comfortable and you know what your role is, you understand your role, you understand other people's role, then maybe that's when you start taking the action. And I think that's good, good, solid advice, especially when you're entering a pretty complex organization.
00:06:49
Speaker
And I think this can help us break down positional power versus expertise-based power as well, because i feel like oftentimes when our students graduate, we haven't really had a chance to to talk them through these distinctions yet, but that can make a big difference in how they hit the ground in the space.
00:07:09
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, I think it's it's expected that you become an expert in whatever you're working on, right? So that's sort of a given. So anytime you go into a meeting or you're sending an email, you are the expert going forward.
00:07:23
Speaker
That shouldn't be used as like, a I wouldn't, I don't know if I want to use the word power, but maybe that's what you you would call it. you You don't want to, because you know some more about something, don't try to make somebody else feel lesser because you know more about something.
Building Credibility and Effective Communication
00:07:38
Speaker
That is, some people would just call that humble. Yeah, or it's maybe being aware of the power differentials in the room, even if you're not trying to exercise power.
00:07:50
Speaker
That's right. That's right. What advice do you have for new engineers when they enter spaces and they're trying to figure out who holds risks and who feels the consequences of different interactions?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. in the In the world that I come from, and I think this applies a lot, is engineers do important roles, right? And so you could be working on a product that could...
00:08:19
Speaker
improve somebody's life or it could actually hurt somebody's life. And so you have to be very aware of the type of communications that you're doing. So if you're if you're working on something, let's use an automotive an automotive example again, if you're working on something that's that important in terms of call it safety, you have to be very aware of what you write down and what you say. And especially if you're communicating something that you observed Because it can always be brought up, and you know obviously, in in settings that it was never intended, out of context. So you have to be aware of those kind of challenges.
00:08:59
Speaker
When new engineers come in to a company, one of the things I've observed as when I was a manager is that there's a lot of people that are trying to prove that they know what they're doing. Mm-hmm.
00:09:10
Speaker
And if you got hired at that company, you've kind of already checked that box, right? So I think my advice to to new hires is the most powerful way of building your credibility is what I like to call sort of the silent confidence. This, you know, not sitting there and and just blurting out all the equations and all of everything you've done, but Being able to summarize the points very well in a conversation, but then ask during the Q&A part, being able to go as deep as you need for the audience that you're addressing.
00:09:44
Speaker
And so that builds credibility, in my opinion, better than anything. So be mindful that you don't need to put all your expertise out in the open explicitly all the time.
00:09:56
Speaker
It sounds like what we're talking about here is that power differences can be really important whenever it comes to making sure you understand the purpose that you're speaking on as an engineer and making sure that that purpose serves the audience really well.
00:10:15
Speaker
isn I think that last point that you just made of the audience is probably, in my opinion, is one of the most important things, right? So it When you talk about communication, if you can understand what that person is what level of experience, that would be, you know, that is is really important.
00:10:34
Speaker
Well, let's start breaking down those audiences then. And we'll start by talking about communicating up. So i feel like students are already a little bit practiced with this because you kind of have that dynamic when it comes to the faculty-student relationship a bit. But also let's think about managers and executives. So what changes when engineers communicate with people who evaluate or supervise them rather than to just each other?
00:11:01
Speaker
Ah, so communicating to your manager, not going above that manager? Well, let's talk about both. Okay. Well, let's talk about, you know, your manager, right? So, you know, that's the easy one where when you're talking to a manager, your specific manager, they're dealing with a lot more than just your project. They're dealing with a lot of other, call it colleagues of yours. And so you have to be respectful that you can't go into telling that manager everything. So your role is to tell them where you need where things stand.
00:11:31
Speaker
So you know is are your metrics, are you on track? You don't have to tell them everything, but you need to make sure that you're you know you're highlighting the important points. And then the second point is, is where do you need help? right And what what is that that manager, what can that manager help you with? So you know they can't help you through a problem if they if they're not aware of what you're going after. So use that opportunity to to get the help you need.
00:11:57
Speaker
Something I like to say to students is the better you can communicate with your manager, the less micromanaged you will be. Good point. Good point. And everyone has their own style. So you have to learn their style. You have to learn when to use the right medium, right? I don't know if you've covered covered this, Jill, on with other podcasts, but you know email is probably the most used. But yeah know there's times when you'd want to hold things to a conversation. There's times when you're going to want to Use texting if you need a very quick response. Make sure you use that.
Strategic Communication and Email Etiquette
00:12:32
Speaker
The other piece of advice that I would give students is think about every email being forwarded to everybody in the organization. Do you do you use that as a as a tip? because No, but I've had nightmares where I hit reply all. So I do practice that. If you put that as your filter of every email, just assume that this email is going to go to everybody and write it that way. If it's super sensitive,
00:12:59
Speaker
I'm not sure email is the right approach. Sometimes you might want to ask for five or ten minutes on a phone call to cover something that's very sensitive. And I'm not just saying that from a legal standpoint. I'm saying that just because sometimes, you know, if it goes into an email, it it has to, you know sometimes things have to happen, whether it's an HR. Mm-hmm.
00:13:19
Speaker
process or there might be a legal process. If there was a prototype that didn't stop, and once again, in the automotive world, and that gets documented, there's a whole you know there's a whole thing that could come out of that if if there was ah a recall or somebody got hurt. So you have to really be careful.
00:13:36
Speaker
And I always use the thing, that my my filters, once again, just as you said, assume it's going to everybody, and then usually that's an appropriate filter. Mm-hmm. Let's circle back to what you said about letting your manager or supervisor know what you need.
Encouraging Questions and Leveraging Education
00:13:52
Speaker
feel like this is something students or new engineers might struggle with, with the transition from student engineer, because with you as their faculty member, you're there to teach them, right?
00:14:05
Speaker
When you're new in the field, how do you ask good questions without signaling incompetence?
00:14:14
Speaker
That's a great question. Once again, you're usually dealing with the manager that hired you or the manager that you've been working for over the you know the first call it few weeks, months, whatever it might be. So each touchpoint you have with that manager is going to be building up your credibility. right Every person that graduates from Georgia Tech is outstanding. right i've I'm always impressed with the students that come out of this out of this institute.
00:14:38
Speaker
they're going to impress their manager at some point in their career. Maybe not the first day, maybe it's the third day, maybe it's the first month, who knows when that time comes. So my point is, is when you're trying to ask for help, and you don't, you're worried about your credibility, I would say, don't worry about your credibility, because your credibility is there. You you went to Georgia Tech, you graduated as an engineering student, you are going to do fine. Don't feel like a bad question is going to mess up your reputation. i think you know If you want to sort of put it contextually and put it by put it and say, this is what I tried or this is what I did, and this is the output I got, and so I could use your help or understanding of this, maybe that's you know maybe you could lead it with something you do know if you're afraid of just asking the question. But I really don't think that managers, I think that it only it it can only turn into a positive by asking a question that you that maybe you're not aware of.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, oftentimes that can really signal your ethos and maturity in asking those questions. And sometimes your the students are they're not in the system yet, so sometimes these fresh questions might lead to different answers or outcomes. Yeah.
00:15:56
Speaker
Like, why did we, why are we doing it this way? Well, because way we always, don you know, you know, the right design fixation. yeah And so those questions should, you know, unless of course, you know, you're in a bad spot and maybe maybe not in a, you know, in a great spot with your manager time, you know, but other times I would, I would encourage those questions.
00:16:17
Speaker
So we talked about managers. Do you have any advice when communicating to executives? Community to executives. I think it's really the same. It's the same advice, but multiplied like an exp exponential. Right. So think about how many like do you have. jill Do you know how many emails a CEO typically receives in a day? i have no clue. OK, I don't either, but I can assume based on my understanding that it's in the hundreds.
00:16:44
Speaker
right clearly in the hundreds now they they have somebody that pre-filter some of the junk and only you know the real stuff gets gets to the ceo um and once again we're i've moved all the way to the top but you have to put yourself in that mental model that this person is receiving a lot as you go more higher into the organization the volume of email generally grows with the level of um in their position So understanding that how you can communicate concisely, which I think you you teach very well here at the
Communicating with Executives
00:17:18
Speaker
Woodruff School, but also understanding that this person, you only have a moment
00:17:23
Speaker
to really talk to them and and they're only gonna read that first or second sentence. you know i was at this i was at this meeting with with the with the CEO and there was probably about 30 of us with with the CEO at the time, this was just about a few weeks ago, and somebody stood up and said to the CEO, I wrote you a six page letter.
00:17:43
Speaker
And on page five, I said this and this and this, and I never got a response, Mr. CEO. I mean, I think we all know why he didn't get a response in this situation. So you really need to understand that that these these people are are multitasking. They're dealing with a lot of stuff. I would say, in fact, this is a good question for you, Jill. How much do you think o and of a CEO's inbox is good news versus bad news?
00:18:10
Speaker
I would probably say 30, 70. 30 of good news? Yeah. I would say you're pretty close. And once again, I don't have any data here, but I can tell you that based on, I was very fortunate to go out and to know many of the the CEOs in my career. I would say it's probably 80, 20. 80 bad news, 20 good news. I would assume that a lot of things that people might celebrate as good news, the CEO might Understand as just doing your job and they wouldn't reach up that high
00:18:41
Speaker
Right, but if you say you, say you're a new employee of the company, if you're you're you're a new Georgia Tech engineer and you have this great idea and you really think the CEO should consider it seriously, I consider that almost like a good news message, right? It's not like, oh, you know, things aren't going well on this project or that my manager is not treating me the way I should be being treated or, you know, those kind of bad news kind of or qualities going, you know, whatever it might be.
00:19:10
Speaker
My point is is, if you're going to be talking to the top executive management of of a company, it's usually it hopefully is a good news topic.
00:19:22
Speaker
If it's not a good news topic, then you're going to have to frame it in a very professional way that you want to fix the problem, not just present the problem. And present it it as, ah as you know, here are some here's my idea of what I think we could do. So that if you are bringing that bad news up to, say, the CEO, that you actually have thought through some ideas.
00:19:45
Speaker
When communicating with Upward, so managers and executives, is it important to very clearly signal when you're communicating to just inform them versus when you're communicating to exact a decision from them?
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. And I think, you know, you you know you you you articulated that very well is, you know, there be very specific of what you're asking for. Very rarely in life are you just going to be writing a note to a CEO that you want nothing to come back and or even a leadership team. And so be very, very clear of what you're asking for, but do so in a very professional way. Don't sound like you're demanding an answer, but just say, hey, you know, this would really help us if you could give us your opinion or your direction on how we should proceed, that would really be helpful.
00:20:36
Speaker
Now, one of the things we didn't talk about, Jill, is say there was something good news or bad news that you wanted to communicate at a few levels away from you. So there's some levels in between. What do you what do you suggest from your experience of would you CC those people if it was an email?
00:20:54
Speaker
That is not something I've thought about because I've always worked in academia, and so there are channels to do that the appropriate way. And so I feel like that is something that everyone kind of has to learn in the place that they land for that for that first job or even second and third job, what the decorum is for how information gets dispersed.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yes. So there's there are the rules of the road. so But you could imagine, right, if you're in that management chain and say you're in the middle of that management chain. So say there's a ah span of six people between you and the CEO. So that might yeah you know that might be a a medium-sized organization.
00:21:35
Speaker
yeah There's going three or four people that... If they're not receiving, they find out that you're you're talking to the CEO and you're not including them, they could be they could they could be very disappointed. So my rule, or at least that what served me well, they this isn't ever written down anywhere, right? But what I've done is if I have something that I'm working, say I'm working on ah a side project with a senior person in the company, maybe it is the CEO, maybe it's somebody else. I would always just CC my immediate manager and then the the person I'm working with. would be i would address it to that person and then just CC my immediate manager. That...
00:22:17
Speaker
My immediate manager then has the responsibility to cascade it to his man or her manager and move it up the organization. So because you don't want to have this long list of CCs. Right. And sometimes you're not even allowed to.
00:22:31
Speaker
yeah Well, that's true. that's i ah There's a reason we don't have the credentials to email everyone in the entire university. That's right. That's right. And and sometimes you have a rogue employee or what have you. And you've got to make sure that there's protections in there. But that approach has has served me very well.
00:22:49
Speaker
I know you teach capstone sometimes.
Presentation Skills and Audience Engagement
00:22:51
Speaker
So thinking about that moment whenever they have interactions with their sponsor and maybe they get in front of the upper management or CEO of their sponsor, some of the things to remember is we don't want to be over-explaining just to appear smart. We already trust you that you're smart. There might be that...
00:23:12
Speaker
feeling that that needs to happen, but it doesn't. And we also don't want to under explain to avoid scrutiny. Any other advice you give those capstone students? Yeah, no, I love the way you articulated that. I i think that's actually, you know, that's perfect advice.
00:23:27
Speaker
Once again, my ideal presentation is you explain the outcome and you show the fan, call it the fantastic idea that you you're showing in this case, if it's a capstone or Creed X, You're showing your prototype and you're you're highlighting the attributes, but let the Q&A drive the level of depth. That person, that audience member, your sponsor may have a different level of depth and the level of questions will willll sort of test to understand how deep you go. And so that's what I think is sort of the perfect presentation. is put out there as we are super excited, show the prototype, show the, call it the all the great news and what you went through, and then in the Q&A, talk about, oh, well, we did have a design challenge here. This is the analysis we ran. This is what the data told us, and this is the design direction we made a decision on.
00:24:26
Speaker
That is the most beautiful presentation you can have when you're talking to a sponsor. clear, to the point, and then open it up for questions. Exactly, because that level of presentation, especially when you do a Q&A and leave room for a Q&A, it's adapted to the level of knowledge that your sponsor has in this case.
00:24:46
Speaker
You know, you don't want to overwhelm them with stuff. You don't want the sponsor to feel like they're not... at the level of of knowledge that you might have in a certain space, just because you understand thermodynamics at maybe a level, you know, and that person may not have it for 30 years, right? You don't want to make them feel bad.
00:25:06
Speaker
And so let the Q&A drive, let that person ask a question and then drive the drive the details from that. Let's move on to different kinds of communication. So I'm thinking about like lateral communications, communicating across power, respects, and authority.
Cross-Disciplinary Communication
00:25:25
Speaker
So how should engineers communicate with people who may not share their role, discipline, or status, but whose expertise still very much so matter?
00:25:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think this is a very common situation, right? Especially in matrix organizations where you have a whole group of folks that are needed to help support you, but they don't report in the same structure as you. You know, they may be in a completely different building and maybe in a different part of different geography. My advice is If you have the time, and it really depends on situation, but you know there's ah there's a great approach where you could summarize your project in a non-confidential way that goes out to this extended team.
00:26:11
Speaker
And that can be a form ah of of, you know, call it and improving the team dynamics. Everybody is understanding the status of the project, what things happening, what's who's going where, when, who's representing the project at this event, or whatever it might be. um Even if that person doesn't need to know everything, they can scan something that was well written to find the points that are important.
00:26:35
Speaker
I would also go back to you know what we talked about earlier in an engagement. So if you've got some people off in some support organizations or a different matrix, part of the matrix organization, if there is any opportunity to bring them in to the mission that you're doing and show them how that what they're doing is making your mission successful,
00:26:59
Speaker
they will become much more motivated to to serve you. And so the more you can do that, whether it's through communications or maybe it's through you know just an invitation, maybe it's through a conversation or maybe it's a lunch, but whatever it might be, the more you can share, because I'll use IT t as an example again. IT doesn't always get to see what they're doing, right? And what what they yeah their support,
00:27:25
Speaker
But if if you really needed it and they're a critical deliverable for your mission, for your charter, for whatever you're working on, then wouldn't it be great to have that IT person that's assigned to your team i'd be part of them be part of the team? So that's my advice, is to is to bring them in whenever possible.
00:27:45
Speaker
I've had conversations like this with some of our students who have internships.
Enhancing Collaboration through Communication
00:27:51
Speaker
And so they're communicating with different roles that they've never had to communicate with before. And if you don't have another option, you can just ask. you can ask that person, you know, what kind of information can I give you that will best help you?
00:28:07
Speaker
Because sometimes when you're in a new organization, you're met with new roles. You're not really sure what it is they need from you as the engineer to make the decisions that are important to their role.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's a great piece of advice. I mean, some of the best, you know, even in my professor the practice role, some of my best students work. come up to me and ask, hey, professor, what is your favorite way of communication? And what is the easiest way to get hold of you? And it's so easy to answer, and it's so efficient, right? You don't have to, you know, like, you know, some people like, oh, you know, well, I'll send him something in Teams. And, you know, some people don't even check Teams. And so asking that simple question can really going forward. Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
And there are some roles I feel that engineers are trained to know what this person needs from them. So I'm thinking about more cross communication, more lateral communication, people who have specialized skills like machinist operators and technicians. What advice do you have for communicating with them?
00:29:23
Speaker
Well, let's let's start with the media, right? Many of those roles that you have, they're not checking their email on a regular basis, right? Maybe they do once a day. Maybe they do at the beginning of a shift. Maybe the end of the shift. Maybe they don't use email at all for their for their role.
00:29:38
Speaker
Undoubtedly, but maybe. um So my, you know, choose the right, you know, once again, my My advice is not just a communication answer. My advice is bring them into the mission, bring them into the project. So if it's a machinist and they're and they're making a part for you, take them out and show where that part is going. Show them, like you know we have these great electric carts we use for and the grid and the machine shop did a fantastic job making us some mounts to hang on the wall and what have you. And i you know we took the machinists over and and showed after everything was done what great work they did. And I mean, it looks beautiful with having all those carts hanging up and organized. So you you you need to um recognize that that machinist is maybe not dedicated to you. They might be spreading themselves across multiple projects. And the more that you can show them how it's um how your project is benefiting from their services, the more it will help. So communicate.
00:30:40
Speaker
sort of how their role or communicate how their role is is ah setting up you for success will bring them into the team in a much better way. Do you have any other advice for how new engineers can know demonstrate respect for experiential knowledge that other people have but still communicate their design goals?
Leveraging Non-Engineering Expertise
00:31:03
Speaker
So I think there's multiple ways of answering that question. I think, well, let's get back to the the prior question and the question just asked. Some of the roles that you have that are, call it non-engineered or maybe even non-degreed roles, some of the most best experience resides in their heads.
00:31:21
Speaker
Right. So we need to we need to sort of like recognize that and and and call it celebrate that. Yeah, absolutely. I think I've told you my dad worked for a paper mill and predictive maintenance. for 35 years and when he he's retired now and still to to this day every once in a while people come up and knock on the door to try to ask him questions because he has so much institutional knowledge with that place.
00:31:52
Speaker
That's awesome. I mean that's its reputation, that's knowledge and you know people like that are are are worth gold, right, and in terms of ah in terms of in the in the company they work for. And so, you know, first and foremost, recognize that. Don't come in. and I don't know. We don't want to. I mean, nobody I don't think is going to do this, but don't come in saying I'm the Georgia Tech engineer and right and disrespect the knowledge that's in the room. I don't think anyone would ever intend to do that. But that's why i think this conversation that we're having about being aware of
00:32:26
Speaker
perceived power differentials in a space can serve you well so that it doesn't come across like that. Yeah. And i almost take what you're saying and and sort of maybe turn it around a little bit. I would say that building up a successful team, you have to understand that every it's going to take everybody in the room, everybody cleaning the floors to the machinist, to the, to the, even the, you know, maybe even the executive leadership team, And for a skilled Georgia Tech grad to be able to navigate that environment and when that person can figure that out, they're going to do really, really well.
00:33:05
Speaker
Whether it be an internship, a capstone sponsor, or you know their their first job, what advice do you have for students, early career engineers, as they navigate power differences for the first time?
Fostering Teamwork through Humility
00:33:25
Speaker
Well, this once again is my personal advice. I enjoy being, i like to say be humble, right? and And recognize that everybody has got some superpower. And so don't become that person, in my opinion, don't become that person that knows everything and that treats people with disrespect if they don't know as much as as you.
00:33:44
Speaker
I would rarely come across those kind of people at Georgia Tech. But that's, you know, that's sort of the extreme. I say be humble, communicate well to your entire team and recognize that the team is not just engineers, that there's other people on that team and treat them with respect and include them in the communications, include them in the celebration, include them in what we call milestones. right Milestones are where you get to you know put a prototype together. Sometimes it's driven around a track. whatever, maybe it's flown in the air if it's a different type of business, but include those people in those celebration milestones and, you know, recognize that building a team is what this is all about.
00:34:25
Speaker
And then, you know, we all get emotional, right? There's always something that's going to rub you the wrong way, make you upset. That doesn't mean that email needs to be sent in the next 10 seconds. Right.
00:34:38
Speaker
I'm sure you coach people, right? I love the overnight rule. um you know I sometimes draft an email and then I'll sleep on it before I send it. And I think that has worked very well for me.
00:34:53
Speaker
In talking about bringing people in and being a part of the team, i think this is a good time to reinforce the the fact that speaking in writing and writing presenting is just half of what makes up communication. Listening, reading,
00:35:11
Speaker
is the other half actually receiving the communication. So it's really important that you're in the space in real time, engaging with people and being responsive rather than trying to be perfectly
Learning from Management Insights
00:35:24
Speaker
scripted. That's right.
00:35:26
Speaker
That's right. So Joe, I think like going back to your question of like taking what you just said and going back to the manager question, right? Say there was a problem that I had with ah something, i was a new Georgia Tech engineer and I was having a problem.
00:35:42
Speaker
Sometimes what you can do, one of the tricks, not tricks, but one of the ways I like to open up communication is asking, even though I may have experienced a failure or experienced a challenge, asking my manager,
00:35:55
Speaker
Like, what would what would you do in this situation? How would you approach the problem? Do you think things are going well? Whatever, right? It's normally the questions that the manager's asking the the new hire.
00:36:07
Speaker
Sometimes having the new hire asking the manager and ah and just twisting the the question around a little bit can open up. a door for the manager to instill their wisdom on the new hire. And i I really do think that that's something, as you said, communication is a two-way street. It involves listening as well.
00:36:27
Speaker
And sometimes that gives, call it the invitation to the manager to say, oh, that's a great question. Let me let me tell you how I would go about it. Right. I've done that myself in trying and you know collaborating with a couple of other people and talking with my supervisor about It's something felt off there. you know Is there a history, is there a dynamic that I need to be aware of for the next time I enter that space?
00:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'll share just a quick little story. I was, my first week at Ford Motor Company, I graduated from Georgia Tech and i I moved up to Michigan. My first week, I was given an assignment to go understand this new thing that was called OBD-2. We won't go into the details, but at the time it was an unknown new regulation from the government.
00:37:18
Speaker
And so being, you know, all I was given was like, Mike, explore this. And then I was given a name and the name was Wally Wade. I can still say his name. He's still alive and still. And so every morning I would call Wally Wade and I would ask him these basic, basic questions.
00:37:37
Speaker
And it was about a week later. And so Wally would being the kind gentleman he was. would answer every question for me and he would you know I would keep asking questions and keep them on the phone but a week later my chief engineer calls me into his office and he says Mike have you been calling Wally Wade I said, yeah, I've been given, I've been trying to figure out this, you know, this OBD2 issue. And I'm trying to make a ah training video for the whole company to, to explain what OBD2 is. He's like, do you realize he's one level away from the CEO?
00:38:09
Speaker
And I'm like, oh no, I didn't. I said, well, I said, shouldn't he have have like an admin answering his phone or something or what have you? And, and they're like, well, yes, he does have an admin. She's out ill this week.
00:38:23
Speaker
And, um, make a long story short, I realized that I was taking up too much of an executive's time, which I didn't. If I would have done my homework, I probably would have known if I was there more than a week that there's a way to look up the leadership level of a person.
00:38:39
Speaker
And about a year later, and just a kind of a funny end of the story, the chief engineer was at a retirement party for somebody else that I was at. And he goes, do you know how Wally, do you know how Wally came up and told me about you calling him every day? I'm like, no. He goes, he goes, we have a nickname. He goes, he goes, he he came up to me and like shook his leg and said, can you get that Chihuahua Tenski off of my leg? Oh no.
00:39:05
Speaker
So I was called Chihuahua for a while within the company, but The moral of the story is is do a little bit more of a homework on who you're talking with and making sure you understand your audience in the communication world.
00:39:19
Speaker
Is that your end note or do you have one last piece of advice for what you wish you had understood earlier about communicating across hierarchies?
Psychological Aspects of Organizational Communication
00:39:32
Speaker
I wish. So I think, Jill, you would agree with this comment. If you understand psychology, you'd be really good and you're really good in the world of communication. Yes, because that's really what it is. And I wish I would have understood that earlier on in my career, because.
00:39:48
Speaker
When you're new to the company and you see these people in all different roles, leaders, you know directors, executive directors, and vice presidents, and CEOs, and even going the other way, you in some ways, you're intimidated a little bit by these these these people. But in the end of the day, they are just people that have done their job really well and got promoted for that.
00:40:10
Speaker
And so in very simplistic terms, if you just recognize their people and that they're doing a role and you understand what their knowledge is and that they're busy people and you craft communications to understand that that's your audience, you're going to do just fine.
00:40:26
Speaker
And I wish I would have understood that a little sooner. I'd learn that maybe mid-career. Maybe the Georgia Tech students being smarter than I am these days, maybe they'll learn it in their first five years. We all hope they learn from our own pain. That's that's their hope as a teacher, right? That's right. And i also i also would say that the more you can...
00:40:46
Speaker
if If your heart is in the right place, which I'm assuming most people's is, you're going to do just fine because the communication is going to reflect that you're really trying to help.
00:40:59
Speaker
You're not trying to be malicious. You're not trying to destroy anything. You're trying to help improve something. Then that'll come out in your communication and it'll be much more well received.
00:41:10
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me today. Thanks for having me. It's great.