Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Italian football podcast with John Solano, Carlo Garganese and Nima Tuvali.
Speaker: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to a special edition of the Italian Football Podcast. My name is Nima Talalay -Rutsari, and I'm joined today by a very good friend of the show. But he's here today to talk about something that is not so nice for us, for all of us who love Italian football. We talk nonstop about this on this show, about how Italian football needs to improve in order to compete with the Premier League. And a key part of that is the TV deals.
Speaker: Our next guest is here to talk about the TV deal in the Middle East and North Africa because what has happened there is nothing short of a scandal. Before we get to that, let's welcome Adrian Adriana Del Monte. How are you Adrian?
Speaker: Very good to be with you. I'm going well. I was enjoying some quiet time off in the summer, but obviously news never stops in Italy. And that's why we love it. But plenty to discuss. Yeah, I mean, let's let's start with that. I mean, how did this thing I mean, you know, just for full disclosure, you do work for being in sports who are one of the who who used to have the TV rights. And, you know, there has been quite a lot of drama around that because there was a
Speaker: alleged Saudi state piracy agency called B, what was it called, B out or something. And they pretty much just pirated the rights from the Qatari rights holders. And there was lots of arguing back and forth, obviously legal. And
Speaker: So can you tell us a little bit how, like the backstory, how did you come across this information and what information have you got or have you revealed? Let's talk about that. Look, obviously, yes, for full disclosure, B &R are one of the seven networks that I do work with. And as such, I've been always very interested in, in general, in CDR's dealings and handlings with foreign broadcasters.
Speaker: Obviously in foreign markets I am Milan based but I work covering city for a range of networks in a range of churches around the world so I've always been very pretty to the very strange ways that city I have gone about doing their dealings and some of the bizarre decisions that have been made in.
Speaker: and look the Middle East and North Africa region is a very interesting one because it's a very very passionate region for football in general but especially Italian football. I spent a couple of years living in Qatar working for for being and I really saw it firsthand there's a lot of love
Speaker: Obviously for particularly the bigger clubs in Italy and look that this story this story is one that has been a bizarre saga obviously we could discuss this for days, but there was the relationship a very healthy relationship between being and The city of the Italian Federation was all going very very well and there was the breakdown you mentioned that the be out to you obviously that was the the piracy of
Speaker: being sported was going into the Saudi Arabia region. There was the Sadiad's decision to take the supercopper final to Riyadh. Obviously, we're dealing with some political tension there that's probably for individuals of greater expertise in that space than I am.
Speaker: Obviously, it's a tough one. It's a very tough one. It's a very difficult one. But it was all based on the initial strong rapport between Qatar, between being sports and set it up. There was a healthy working relationship there. But it obviously now has broken down and it has led to a point where last season, this was baffling. It was incredible for me. But prior to the commencement of last season,
Speaker: The global rights for Serie A into some major key markets remained unsold up until 24 hours before the opening day. And two of those markets I work into in Australia and India as well, obviously massive markets for Italian football. The being sports deal fell at the final moment as well. And as such, the entire MENA region did not have a broadcaster for Serie A.
Speaker: And it is just incredible to think that combined the MENA region with India, we're talking billions of people, millions of passionate Italian football fans were unable to watch Italian football. And as such, in the end, in the MENA region, a select amount of games per round were broadcast on YouTube. And obviously YouTube, you're not going to get the same viewership as you would on traditional television. So it was a mess. However,
Speaker: 12 months on and a group of clubs, quite incredibly, led by the Roma president, which has been confirmed to me from the powers of being sport.
Speaker: essentially went to be in and encouraged them to buy the product back, obviously viewing the fact that being can tip a significant amount of money into the league, which will help the league, which will help the infrastructure, which will help the clubs. And this very passionate group of clubs, again, led by the Roman president, went there and made a pitch to be in sports, which was very, very well received. And that was essentially what led to the surprise return of being
Speaker: unexpected return to the market to potentially repurchase the SETI R rights for the next five years. So financially, what that would have done to the league would have been enormous. But now, obviously, it hasn't come through and Abu Dhabi sports will take the rights which
Speaker: With all respect to them, obviously good luck to them with their coverage. But a very different financial offer was on the table. And now the questions are starting to be asked. Well, what actually is going on? I mean, just to clarify a few things, Marco Bellinazzo, who works for Il Soleventi Quattro, or it was a financial paper in the in Italy, reports today that 75 million euros for the three for three years.
Speaker: for the complete three that's less than 20 million euros per season being used to pay if i'm not mistaken over a hundred million per season absolutely this is the this is the incredible well this is the incredible element to to this story look i have been i've been someone who has
Speaker: At times being critical of spending in Italy in general, the Cristiano Ronaldo deal, I think, has had a divided opinion in terms of all the money was good for the business side of, let's say, Juventus, but on field it didn't necessarily work. But when we're talking about television rights and the fact that that can be spread across all the clubs and the fact that that can then be reinvested into stadiums and infrastructure and just the image of the league in general,
Speaker: It is a very tough one to comprehend because those figures are right. I can confirm as well that being sports were asked to increase their bids on multiple occasions. And every time that they came back to the table with a new bid, it was significantly greater than the previous bid. So being were very serious in their desire to repurchase the rights for the next five seasons.
Speaker: such in the end it didn't come through but being had promised to increase their offer as each season went on obviously being especially with their with their coverage in the Middle East they have something like 30 channels so there's no match that would not be able to be seen and obviously from a from a broadcast perspective to have a guarantee of all that to have that guarantee of additional funds coming in financially it's a very very difficult one to comprehend and
Speaker: And then because of the Melandri Law, which has been modified now, they've sold it until 2024 -2025 season or around 30 million per season. That season as well has been sold for 31 million. We're talking
Speaker: 290 million euros less than if they began for the same, given the value going on previous numbers for the duration of this. That makes absolutely no sense. None. No sense whatsoever. And again, I do feel that we're in a position here where serious questions need to be asked of the powers that be
Speaker: whether at the Italian Federation, whether in Serie A, whatever the case is. Because I mentioned when breaking the news in the tweet, for me, personally, you know, this is a league that we all love. It's our favourite league in football. It's a league that I grew up with. It's a league that I take great joy in covering. But being very well aware of some of the bizarre decisions that have been made, particularly in the foreign broadcast rights market.
Speaker: If we are to continue like this, with this level of incompetency and leadership, these decisions and this just overall level of disregard for foreign markets and its appeal in Saudi Arabia, well, this is just the start. We are in much, much bigger trouble longer term.
Speaker: I don't know for sure whether it's a case of they aren't aware of this or they don't want to be aware of this or they're just trying to do as minimal work as possible. But this is where someone or multiple individuals need to be held accountable because the league as a product and we've seen it.
Speaker: We've seen it on the transfer market. We see what's already happened if you just compare the spending of England in the first month of the transfer market compared to one year. 500 million euros compared to 50 in Australia. Where are we at?
Speaker: you know, to call for some heads to roll, to call for some accountability. The time is now or never. And that's the unfortunate reality of the situation. There is just not that level of regard. There's not that level of respect. And there's too many people at the top in Italian football patting each other on the back, but not actually doing the job at hand. And that makes us very sad because we have great intentions to cover this great league.
Speaker: But if we're not supported from those that have the power to make change, well, we're all doomed. Well, that's that's 100 % true. And that's something we always talk about on this podcast, about how, you know, John Solano, my co -host, always says brilliantly that the Seria's biggest problem is the Seria. It just can't help get to get out of its own way. And and this is why I mean, we don't have any evidence about nefarious and foul play.
Speaker: But we have to acknowledge the fact that when somebody offers a price that is, I don't know, a thousand percent more than the price that it's actually sold for, this is dodgy as hell. I mean, you don't need to be, you know, this does not look normal. This is not how business is done. Business is done. Usually, the person who pays the most
Speaker: gets the product, right? And we're not here. This is not what's happening here. And so yes, question needs to be asked. An inquirer needs to be had. And I think given the fact that, you know, the interesting thing that you mentioned is that it's the Roma owners, they're an American, they're an American firm, New Balance.
Speaker: They they don't have any, you know, previous like, you know, relationships in Italy. So they come in there and they look at the numbers and they're the ones pushing for this and they get screwed over like this. I don't I don't see them taking this down. I don't see I don't see them taking the sitting down and I don't see the other foreign owners as well who are who are, you know, multiplying in the Syria being quiet about this either because it is insane.
Speaker: That's why I mentioned earlier. I feel that this is only the start I mean, you know, we've released a couple of details here about the deal itself But I would be very confident that the the presidents of these clubs that were involved know a lot more than I do at this point in time and I don't think that they're going to go down quietly because They've invested in our league for a reason
Speaker: They went to being in sports to encourage being to repurchase the rights for a reason. And being in sports did confirm to me that they were very impressed with the sell and the pitch and the passion of Roma and the other clubs because they did feel that it was a league that will always have its history, will always have its culture and tradition, but it did feel that it was a league lacking appeal. But this presentation, this pitch that was made from Roma and the other clubs
Speaker: got them back on board. And again, well, obviously now it's going to become a massively missed financial opportunity, again, with respect to Abu Dhabi sports. Abu Dhabi sports are not in the wrong year. They've done what they've done. They've purchased the rights. Good luck to them. But for Sadeyar to just turn this away. And there was an email that was published that was sent from the CEO of being to the president of Sadeyar, which
Speaker: effectively a few hours prior to the official announcement that Abu Dhabi were purchasing the rights, said that we are pulling out, we are withdrawing our bid, essentially due to the ongoing uncertainty and lack of transparency around the process. Now, what does that mean? I'm sure time will tell, but that's where we're at at the moment. And if we're dealing with this at a time where we have fallen so far behind,
Speaker: the other leagues. I always have this discussion because many have always argued, especially Premier League fans who were saying, you know, this is our time, we're at the top now, Sadia was at the top in the 90s, it was La Liga in the 2000s. The financial difference now between where we're currently at and the direction we are heading and the Premier League, I don't see any way back. I just don't see how
Speaker: The setter at this point in time can ever get anywhere near the financial model of the Premier League. Where the Premier League are at with their spending is that the fact that again this season the clubs that were relegated made more TV money than the champion of our competition. That's a long, long road back and with another situation like this now.
Speaker: Again, I just I don't see what the next step is unless there is significant. Yeah Just just to circle back which other clubs other than Roma were involved in pushing this
Speaker: I haven't had that confirmed. It was suggested that many of the clubs with that foreign investment were those. I haven't had the specifics confirmed, but being were very, very keen to essentially respect the fact that it was Roma and the Roma president who were leading the charge. And I think they wanted to make that clear because there was a very open and honest and respectful discussion that was had there.
Speaker: And it was suggested that the other clubs that were involved were the foreign -owned clubs, which doesn't surprise us, does it? Not remotely. Not remotely at all. And again, that's just the reality of where we're currently at.
Speaker: I remember when Seria was first offered the deal that La Liga were offered, which they took because they're not stupid, which was an absolutely brilliant idea, creating a media company and that media company owns all the rights and that media company then sells all the rights all over the world.
Speaker: And and all the clubs in the city and said he'd be owned a stake in that and so on and so forth And and it was it was a long -term deal It was a 20 -year deal and they were gonna put pumping billions of euros and for some reason this was voted not down And they went to Spain and Spain snapped it up so quickly. They bit their hands off much to the Disappointment of Real Madrid Barcelona and atletico Madrid, but they quickly understood that
Speaker: you know, they were voted down something like 17 to three because it was this is good for Spanish football because the more money in Spanish football overall, I mean, you know, you can't just look at the tip of your nose. You got to look a bit further down the road as well. And I think that that TV deal and that structure is something that will save Spanish football. And meanwhile, here's the city. Exactly. And again, I mentioned it a little earlier on.
Speaker: You only have to look at the mess that was caused 12 months ago. Yes, again, with being in the in the MENA region, the fact that in the end, all of the season will half of the season at least was streamed only on YouTube to the millions of fans there. But the market, another market which I work into, which is very, very interesting was India. And the reason that I raised India was because India, we know massive population, massive population of football fans.
Speaker: And it was this market that had a broadcast rights holder in Sony, another of the networks that I work with, who did arguably, in my opinion, some of the best English language coverage of Sadia in the world over the last six seasons. They were doing weekly coverage, weekly studios. It was great. They were providing a service to their audience. Sadia decided to part ways with them due to a breakdown in talks. They were demanding more money for not really any reason.
Speaker: And in the end, they partnered with another platform who weren't and still don't really have a network. They don't have a channel. And as such, it went.
Speaker: Unwatched into India for the last 12 months. I had many fans who were joining us on Sony asking me all the time Where do I watch Sadia in India this season and the new broadcaster came in? Hopefully they do good things for the competition going forward, but they didn't have a platform ready to go So that's on the other side where the city I took a little bit more money from a new broadcaster But it wasn't the right platform at that point in time. So this decision -making just lacks complete consistency
Speaker: And then you compare that to the Premier League, who are so careful of their brand globally, who as soon as something goes wrong, in any part that they've sold their rights to, they immediately follow up.
Speaker: and ask, okay, what's going on in India? What's going on in China? What's going on there? Like, as soon as something doesn't work with their brand, they proactively reach out and ask for information because they don't think that, okay, well, we signed the contract, money's in the bank, now let's put our hands behind our heads and chill and order another piña colada kind of attitude.
Speaker: Correct. Absolutely. And I can tell you as well with the Premier League, again, we know that the Premier League, what they've done, the way that they've built their product and marketed globally is amongst the very, very best in any competition in world sports. We have to see perhaps when it's been phenomenal.
Speaker: I can tell you again through a couple of my other broadcasts that have the Premier League right, the access and ease of access to the Premier League give to them with current stars, former stars, just to advocate and promote the league on their platforms. It's second to none and it's a no -brainer.
Speaker: Conversely, with Setia, if you want to organize an interview with a top talent or a top player or a top figure, it's almost mission impossible. So they're shooting themselves in the foot. We could never get an interview with Cristiano Ronaldo because Cristiano Ronaldo was bigger than the event as he was bigger than Setia. And as such, you're losing massive opportunities to market your brand, market your competition into every market in the world with the biggest individual in sport that's ever existed.
Speaker: And these are the missed opportunities that continually frustrate us who are trying to give the league a good image, to give the league some exposure. But again, as I said at the start, if the leaders at the top aren't competent and they don't see that, they don't value that, then we're all doomed. What about, I mean, what developments, I mean, I know you've got information that you haven't released yet. I mean, is there something you're going to release soon? And if so, what can you give us a hint into what that is?
Speaker: Yeah, look, obviously, the I guess that the information, the additional information is more the specifics of the dealings. And just, again, I think I think at the moment, it's more a case of that this was promised, this was then not delivered. And so I think there are a lot of questions that being akin to ask of Seria that will emerge down the track. I think it's an interesting one, because at this point now, the rights have been sold.
Speaker: being won't be the rights holder for the foreseeable future in that region. But I think there might be a bit more to come. I don't have the specifics of the conversations that were had, but certainly I've been told that obviously they do. So I think there might be a bit more interesting information that may emerge if being choose to.
Speaker: But at this point, all I have been told is that, and I've just released the latest information now, is that many were asking about other regions in the world. What does this mean for Biin and Saidiya's relationship outside of Mina going forward? And Biin have just confirmed to me that they will continue to honour and respect the existing contracts that they have. So that mainly impacts Australia, Oceania and the Asian regions that have
Speaker: said yeah on being sports they will honor those contracts up until i believe those contracts remain until the conclusion of the 23 24 season but what that means beyond that at this stage i'm told there's not too much positivity about any form of renewal between being and setting out going forward
Speaker: forward, which could again be a massive blow, because what are some of the other options in these markets? I know Australia, there are a few other options, but in other markets in the world that have relied on being for their Citiar coverage for so long now, what does that mean? And that puts further doubt and further stress, I guess, on the growth and exposure of Citiar into these foreign markets. It's genuinely mind -boggling.
Speaker: It's genuinely mind -boggling in such a cut -throat market where after the pandemic and the clubs and people like Beppe Marotta talking about financial sustainability and time again underlying and underscoring that, look,
Speaker: telling you know that the seria is not what it used to be it's now as marota said this is not the final destination of the stars this is just a step you know it's a stepping stone and if you if you're happy with that then great but i don't think they are and i don't think most clubs are and i don't think most seria fans are
Speaker: but they're not doing anything to change that and return back to glory. I mean, if we're just discarding and disregarding the complete dysfunction surrounding the stadiums and that are archaic at best, this is such an epic own goal.
Speaker: And we know that Comisso, especially at the start, that was his number one intention when he came into Fiordantina. That was obviously the one thing he identified. He has a club with history, with tradition in a beautiful city, a beautiful part of the world. He has the makings of a gold mine here. And the one thing that he identified from day one was we need to fix this stadium. It's falling apart. And then all of the other problems come to the fore and nothing's happened since.
Speaker: So it's hardly surprising, but it's what needs to change at the top in order to see change trickle down. And you're right, it's a massive own goal is the best way to describe this entire situation. And again, that's why I feel it is very, it's baffling, it's shambolic, the management, but it's not surprising and it's nothing new. And it's just, it's going to happen again and again and again.
Speaker: unless there is immediate change. Yeah. And I think it wouldn't surprise me if there was an inquiry that started as a result of this, depending on what you guys have, you know, what you've got, what you've published online and also what the, the, the, the financial sports journalists in Italy have reported in Seoul and so on. I think a lot of questions will be asked and I don't, and I expect, you know, these foreign clubs or these foreign owned clubs to kick up a fuss and demand an inquiry as well.
Speaker: And so they should because they've invested their money, their time, their efforts into our competition. They've invested their products into Italy to try and boost everything that it offers because obviously they see financial opportunity on their front. So they've come in with a positive attitude, a positive approach, but it needs to be respected on the other end.
Speaker: they'll pull out and they'll go packing and they'll invest elsewhere. They'll take their money to England. They'll go make more money there than they could here. And that's always the frustration at a point in time where we are so far behind.
Speaker: England and don't even worry about England. Let's talk about Spain. That's what I was just going to say. I'm more worried about Spain, Germany and France. Exactly. Exactly. Forget about the Premier League. You need to worry about second, third and fourth. Correct. Correct. Because we're slipping quickly. Yeah. And then who knows with respect, we start to we start to find ourselves in the in the fifth, sixth, seventh bracket with Portugal and the Netherlands. And that's that's not, you know, that's not something that's impossible. The way we are going at this point in time.
Speaker: You just look at the transfer dealings, you see where it is. The appeal is still there, but that appeal won't last forever, especially as we move into this next generation and things start to change very, very quickly. So this needs to be brought to the attention of those that can make change, of those that can question and can make inquiries as to what's going on. Because again, the longer this continues, well, we may not have a league at this level to cover in the not too distant future. So the change has to come now. Absolutely.
Speaker: Well, thank you, Adrian, for coming on. And if, you know, we'd love to bring you on again if, you know, in a few weeks, because I'm sure there's going to be this is going to this developing story. So make sure to watch out for that. And, you know, if there's anything we'd love to have you on to discuss it even more. If people want to follow you on social media, on Twitter, Instagram, what's your handle?
Speaker: Yeah, you can do that. My pleasure to join you as always, but you can do that at Adrian Del Monte. So just drop the O, Adrian Del Monte there. And yeah, I'll keep you updated with whatever comes to hand because as we've said, there's definitely, and it's not just a matter of this as an isolated story, but there's definitely more to the wider story that is the management of foreign rights and again, that lack of regard that they have for them. So I think it's a developing story that has been ongoing
Speaker: particularly this with the with the MENA region, a very, very intriguing one. And as I said, I've just published the fact that the have confirmed to me that they will maintain the rights of the other territories around the world, mainly Australia, New Zealand, Asia, those parts of the world. So that's an interesting development as such, because my initial thought was they're going to pull out of everywhere very quickly, which would have been a disaster for SETIAR.
Speaker: Again one month out from the start of the season having to go back to the table should to auction off their rights They would have got even less money So I guess that's not the worst case scenario at this stage, but more to come no doubt. Thank you so much Adrian and thank you everyone else We'll be back on Monday for a for a full review of the last week including this this what's happened here and That we've talked to Adrian about and also any developments until then take care of each other. Ciao. Ciao
