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Cici Murray: Balancing Health & Performance
325 Plays3 days ago
In this episode of The Speed Lab Podcast, Les and Cici dive deep into what it really takes to make an NFL 53-man roster — from the grind of training camp to the politics behind roster cuts. They discuss how performance, personality, and availability often outweigh raw talent, and share firsthand stories from elite athletes like T-Mac and others who’ve fought their way through the system.
The conversation expands into profiling athletes, tendon efficiency, data tracking, and how different physical and mental traits shape player development from high school to the pros.
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Episode Timestamps
00:00 – 05:30 • Opening banter & introduction
05:30 – 10:30 • The brutal reality of making a 53-man NFL roster
10:30 – 15:30 • What rookies face between college and the draft
15:30 – 20:30 • Balancing health, opportunity, and the grind
20:30 – 25:00 • Inside T-Mac’s training structure and workload
25:00 – 30:00 • Force profiling, tendon efficiency, and athletic resilience
30:00 – 35:00 • Speed mechanics, reactive strength, and acceleration profiles
35:00 – 40:00 • Eccentric strength, propulsion, and elite-receiver analysis
40:00 – 45:00 • Collaboration between coaches, data, and athlete management
45:00 – 50:00 • Leadership, confidence, and women in sports performance
50:00 – 55:00 • GPS tech, game-speed tracking, and practice data
55:00 – 01:00:00 • Coaching creativity from NFL pros to high school athletes
01:00:00 – 01:04:30 • Work-life balance, family priorities, and future goals
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Transcript
Sweaty Beginnings: Exercising and Bullying
00:00:07
Speaker
I'm in here sweating.
00:00:11
Speaker
You changed your whole shirt. You changed your whole shirt just to get a black shirt on and still be sweating. I know you can see right through Honestly. Okay. So just for context, guys, I was, i was on baby duty this morning. I made CC wait like an hour and I'm watching Mila and I was like, I'm just going to ride the bike.
00:00:30
Speaker
Like I need to do something. Danny calls me fat every time we get on here. So I'm just going to, I'm going to work out. All right. Well, you call me fat, too. I get bullied. So I'm like, I'm going to unfat myself. So I put a weight vest on, i hop on the bike.
00:00:44
Speaker
I start riding back camp this morning. Yeah. And a hoodie and a hoodie. So i'm I'm riding. I'm riding. And like I'm looking at the time. I'm like, OK, I'm at one hundred and thirty three beats per minute for 30 minutes.
00:00:57
Speaker
And I'm like, cool, hop right into the podcast. As soon as I get in this garage, I cannot stop sweating. So if you're watching this on YouTube, I apologize. You're going to see a bunch of fat cells just shedding from my ears from my face.
00:01:11
Speaker
But it's all good. It is what it is. um Hi, what up, friend? Hi, you're in the program that we used to put our some of our big guys in when they were too heavy. That's like the protocol you're on right now.
00:01:24
Speaker
I am in the big guy program. You feel good about yourself. Well, let me let me tell you about, let me tell you something though. Because even though I'm at this big weight class, I'm still faster, stronger, more athletic, more handsome.
00:01:42
Speaker
then I'm waiting for the comparison because I personally have been worried i personally haveve been working out every day. also, I did get a compliment yesterday. i don't actually know if it was a compliment, but one of my um soccer girls, her dad was like, you're the most physically fit girl I've ever seen. I said, Oh, wow.
00:02:06
Speaker
Wow. Well, I mean, it depends how you measure fitness. like Like, yeah are you fit for, like, a Pilates mom yoga studio?
00:02:18
Speaker
Yes. Person? No, no, no. There's no and. There is. No, but, like, well, there's, like, ah there's like a sport fit. And, like, all right, like, you're not, like, ah somebody wouldn't run past you and say, hey, Cece just left the Olympics and came to coach me.
00:02:36
Speaker
Right? It would be like, oh, ccu left the Pilates class. Well, actually, no. If you were an Olympian, what sport would you be?
00:02:43
Speaker
I feel like I have a, I feel like I have like kind of, maybe not a, I need a little bit more muscle for a hurdler body. But I'm like, you know, it's it's a build. It's a sleeper build.
00:02:54
Speaker
That's what I'm telling myself. It's either a sleeper build or like depression body. So like take your pick. You can pick whatever one you want. You know what I mean? Probably a little combination both. Yeah.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's debatable depending on who you ask. yeah But I do have some interesting data for you. So I have this big body weight that I'm at right now, which isn't the best body weight.
00:03:18
Speaker
I ran a No, you're about bad, actually. That's fine. But I ran a one, two, four, five plus ten. Okay, that's impressive. In sneakers.
00:03:30
Speaker
Listen, I'm not done. No, didn't. Listen. In what sneakers? In some ASICs. some regular Some regular ASICs. and Just randomly, no warm up, no like progression. Just like the kids were like, I bet you can't run under 1.4. So i was like, OK, I'll hit 1.38 on the dot. And I hit 1.38 on the dot. And I go, I bet you can't run 1.34. Hit 1.34 on the dot.
00:03:57
Speaker
Then they go, i bet you can't go under 1.3. Hit 1.28. Then they're like, what do you think you can run? I was like, 1.24. 1.24 on dot. one two four on the dot I mean, you went from a one, three, eight to a one, two, four.
00:04:09
Speaker
Well, I was those are like my warmup runs. Like I got ah hit those, but I mean, how like about you what I've learned about you over the past couple years is you can not work out for like six months to a year and you'll still go hit like two killer reps.
00:04:26
Speaker
The rest of them are pedestrian. Right. But like you can, I've seen you after not benching for six months, I've seen you like rep to 25 just like, but that's all you've got. That's the thing.
00:04:39
Speaker
Rep 225 like 25 times. But the the problem is, is that the problem the level of soreness, because I did that. So did that on Tuesday.
00:04:50
Speaker
No, I did that on Monday. I could barely get out of bed yesterday. And then today I had to ride the bike. for So i'm I'm very sore. I'm in a lot of pain. I almost went to the hospital. See, you're inconsistent. And that's the problem when you're built like you are.
00:05:08
Speaker
All right. Well, you know what? um' I'm working on it. Okay. At least you rode the bike. um I'm proud of you. I'm proud of do you. You're doing what you with what you've got. Which is rare.
00:05:20
Speaker
Very rare. You're doing what you can with that big bike that you have. But I'm done bullying you. That's enough. It's large, but I have yet to be beat by any of the guys that we've trained.
00:05:32
Speaker
I've bullied you for five minutes and 32 seconds. so Yeah. Well, good morning. yeah Good morning. Rise and grind. Here I am sweating with my towel. See? um Yeah, but it's good. This is this is positive. Well, but's ah let's get into it.
00:05:50
Speaker
but start with Let's start with a crazy topic. like i was I had all this planned, and then all of a sudden, ah start talking to you, and we're just
The NFL Journey: Challenges and Training
00:05:59
Speaker
hopping right into it. But let's talk about how difficult it is to make a 53-man roster.
00:06:07
Speaker
That's very fitting for the day. Yeah, roster cuts yesterday and I got like nine calls. That was like, damn CC. Like, I didn't realize that when you were talking to us about during like the draft prep process that when you were talking to us about how cold this business would be and that it's less of like a talent gap issue and more of like,
00:06:29
Speaker
What are you willing to do? What are you willing to endure? um How good of a personality do you have? How well do you get along with everybody else? Like, and we were talking, we've talked about this before, but I don't think anybody realizes like those three main factors of actually making that team is like one opportunity.
00:06:52
Speaker
Two, timing and three, availability. And I actually saw like a former NFL guy who was in the league for like six years and he was talking about that. And, you know, I'm reading all the comments and you have, you know, Bucks Loverd 1985 over there talking about all these players are bad.
00:07:12
Speaker
And I'm looking at. the 53 that he's referring to. And I'm like, none of those players are bad. All those players yeah that are on that list are like the top 1%.
00:07:24
Speaker
If you make it to a tryout, you're an elite athlete. If you make it to any workout, if you get called out, if you make it to mini camp, you are absolutely elite and talent is not the question.
00:07:39
Speaker
It's like you get down it's like you get down to offseason and especially like I don't know especially for rookies I think that we were discussing that too like that path is so crazy and once you get from you know a big 90 man roster during during training camp and then you get to the last preseason game and you're looking around like Okay, 53 of us are going to be active and there's another maybe 16 that get a chance to practice with everybody.
00:08:14
Speaker
That's a huge freaking difference. That's a huge difference. like and And I don't think guys realize the path or the work or more so just...
00:08:27
Speaker
the the IQ of everything. Like, not just, and that's football IQ, but that's also, like, gauging the team and the operations that you're under and, like, how well do you get along with the quarterback or how well do you get along with everybody else in the skill group, you know?
00:08:45
Speaker
So I think there's so many factors that a lot of the guys don't consider before they get there and they're just like, oh, i need to play my ass off. Like, you playing your ass off bare minimum.
00:08:56
Speaker
Bare minimum is playing your ass off. 100%. I'm looking at this list. Hunter Renfro cut. um Chicago Bears, Tyler Scott.
00:09:07
Speaker
Isaiah Simmons. um we we have We have a guy, Treshawn Holden, that should be ah starter cut. And and i'm I'm pretty sure he'll he will be a starter this year. I can almost promise that. He's a dog.
00:09:23
Speaker
um We got, let's see, Kansas City Chiefs, Mike Edwards, safety, um Tony Jefferson at safety from the Chargers.
00:09:35
Speaker
um Yeah, former first round picks. And you look at those guys too, yeah, you have former first round picks. You have guys that absolutely killed the preseason, which like normal pedestrians, even guys that are on the team,
00:09:49
Speaker
Regular civilians, doesn't matter. We're looking at this preseason like, oh, holy shit, this is the time for them to prove exactly what they just proved. And they did. And they bawled. yeah But it is still just almost isn't quite enough.
00:10:04
Speaker
Like Hendon Hooker, bawled out, which is which is wild. ah Clyde Edwards-Hilaire, that was wild. Balled out. um He's gone. gamemakers Robert Woods. Doesn't...
00:10:19
Speaker
It's not, it's like I said, talent, talent is never the question when you even get the opportunity to make it into the NFL talent gets you in the door. Yeah. So like, I mean, there's, there's couple of sides to it because you got the political side of the football, which we, we understand a little bit, but not to the level of some of these analysts and everything, but from a physical standpoint, like just making it through training camp healthy is extremely hard. Cause you look at, yeah have the NFL combine,
00:10:46
Speaker
But that takes you to March. And then from March until the draft, you have workouts. So basically, you might be at your team. You might be at home. like you're You're not in the same environment that you were just in. And I was just talking about this with Danny.
00:10:59
Speaker
By the way, agents love you to death. But like that period post-combine is just as important as the pre-combine. So like we'll we'll talk about that in a second. But you basically go from this incredibly structured situation systemized like training program where you have nutrition, you have strength, you have speed, you have a skill training, you have a schedule, and then you go to pretty much nothing.
00:11:25
Speaker
So you have you might still have workouts and stuff, but like it's not the same structure. you get to ah You get to the draft. A couple of days after the draft, you head to your team as a rookie, and you're the you're the man. You're the new guy drafted or the new new guy signed, and and you're getting in love.
00:11:41
Speaker
And you're like, oh, for sure I'm making this 53-man roster. So you go through rookie OTAs, then you go through OTAs, then you hit minicamp. When minicamp ends, you have six weeks. So during those six weeks, a lot of guys are like,
00:11:54
Speaker
You know, this is the first break that I've had. You know, got since our last college game. since their last college game. But if you think back from there, you have the college season, then you have fall camp, then you have summer training and you go all the way back and you think, what was the last time I had three days off? It was probably July 4th, the year before.
00:12:14
Speaker
Because most guys get July 4th off, right? So you're looking at like July 2nd to 5th was the last, in 2024 was the last time these rookies got a break. So what did most guys do?
00:12:27
Speaker
well they they take a break and then all of a sudden training camp hits and a lot of these guys pop up and they can't make it through training camp and on the other end you got guys like i know you're working with tmac who's who everything like the dude's ready to be a day one starter and and probably did too much which you know is relative like we we don't we can't say for sure if that was too much or too little but I mean, the guy's going to be a day one starter.
00:12:56
Speaker
I think that that aspect of things complicates this whole making a 53 man roster even more. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's a little bit different for rookies and vets. Like I think that some can get away with different things. And then you have like exceptions to the rule, like T-Mac, like you have guys that,
00:13:17
Speaker
They played, if they were good, they played every single down that they could in their in their college career. And then you get to your last college game, which is later and later every year. I mean, if you're really good, you're playing until end of January. Which is wild. January 20th.
00:13:39
Speaker
You are not starting. I mean, we had guys that we had already had other guys that were there for three weeks and we had other guys coming in. It's like, like you only have an eight week training cycle to get these guys. And, and that's totally different too. Like the,
00:13:55
Speaker
the eight week, that eight week process less than anything else is, is so mental because you, and especially as speed coaches specifically, like we have eight weeks to physically, our only goal is to shave, shave time off of one event.
00:14:12
Speaker
That's it. but That's it. Like there's one train and keep guys healthy. keep guys healthy and then shave time off of four, four seconds of one event and is the most important event of their career.
00:14:26
Speaker
Like that's a totally different training cycle. It's wild. And like, well, look at the calendar. So January 20 was national championship. Yeah. January 27th was senior bowl.
00:14:38
Speaker
And then from there, like you basically have what, three and a half, four weeks to combine. So it's tough. I mean, the the college landscape, the thing is the combine is not going to shift dates.
00:14:50
Speaker
it It can't because of the way free agency is and all these other aspects of the NFL has to get by. So like NFL's their mindsets, like, dude, like either faster, you're not like, Hey,
00:15:02
Speaker
if you If you're fast, you're goingnna show up and run fast. and that That's not really how it works, but you know that's that's the way they think. so It doesn't matter. The training aspect is, in fact, like whatever.
00:15:13
Speaker
and and We talked about this with Danny yesterday where the performance aspects of training for the combine actually don't really impact your health in a positive way. like it's yeah In fact, it probably does the opposite unless you take an approach that – integrates health and performance. Now, like I'll be super transparent on here from a business perspective. It doesn't help us because of how much time and money we invest into the health side of it.
00:15:38
Speaker
It ends up not being like the best business practice. But from an ethics standpoint, these guys are entering the league. The only thing you could really help these dudes with in in long term is to help them save some mileage on their body by protecting them and in whatever way you can. So like that becomes a focus, but the NFL doesn't share that same value.
00:15:59
Speaker
You know what i mean? ah Right. Well, I think that them and I don't, and it comes from like the top down, but I think if you, if you get to a team and say, okay, so say you're a rookie, you get to a team for, you know, a tryout or a workout or whatever,
00:16:20
Speaker
And you make it great. Now you're starting you're starting mini camp with them. Okay, so say you're a rookie you start mini camp, you ball out, then you get hurt right there. They don't care.
00:16:32
Speaker
They might pay for your PT for two to three days a week, but they don't care. Now they're not only now, now you're gone.
00:16:43
Speaker
And now in two weeks, they have to cut top vets who have been there and performed and can still perform just to bring in a guy who's 21 years old and maybe has, you know, a little bit more mileage and maybe he doesn't pan out.
00:16:57
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like it's, it's like, it's how do you, how do you balance health, talent and, availability and opportunity.
00:17:10
Speaker
Like it's so hard on that scale. And just from a mental like from a mental standpoint for a lot of these guys, it's like they, they ah before this point, they've just been playing football.
00:17:21
Speaker
That's it. They've been playing football and that's how you, and that's how it should be. And they've been having fun. you get to the NFL respectfully, you know, you're, you're living out your literal dream, but it's, like it's, it's not fun anymore. That's your livelihood.
00:17:35
Speaker
And maybe you move and and your family, you move your family out for for two weeks and you're gone. Like it's it's cold. It's cold. Yeah. And and that's, I think that's the piece that is really difficult. We're getting better at now that I'm like a parent, but it's really difficult to explain that to guys in the beginning because they feel like you're just being negative and they feel like, oh, you don't believe in me.
00:18:01
Speaker
It's like, no, like we're trying to, we're trying to tell you the truth. Like when we, when we said, Hey, like being on time is important. And then, you know, we build that habit within our within our group and then all those guys show up on time and they see the other rookies showing up late.
00:18:14
Speaker
They're like, oh, damn, all right, appreciate you, coach. like Just that little thing helped, but you magnify, everything else is magnified. So personality, um how you respond to criticism, how you respond to stress, all those things that are pieces that you build into your combine program in terms of like learning modules.
00:18:34
Speaker
for the guys because those are things they're going to experience. And guys don't really realize initially how different it is in college because in college it's like if you're the best player, you play. because They have to win.
00:18:46
Speaker
But in the NFL, there's so many more factors to it outside of just being the best player. It's like where were you drafted and how much money were you getting And everyone's the best player now. Everybody.
00:18:58
Speaker
yeah that's and that's I mean, it's a difference like from high school to college to NFL. You take a guy who he played every down. He was the fastest guy, the strongest guy. Okay, well, now you get to the NFL.
00:19:12
Speaker
Everybody's faster than you. Everybody's stronger than you. And now what else can you bring to the table? It's a whole different it's a different skill set. Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:24
Speaker
um Talk to me about what you did with TMAC.
00:19:28
Speaker
Um, so I only had TMAC. I mean, it's, it's kind of a crazy path with TMAC because, you know, we worked with him when he was in high school. He was the man in high school. Um, you know, you get to college, you're the man in college. Great.
00:19:44
Speaker
Now you have the only break that he has had since then was that four weeks that I, you know, I was training him in and,
00:19:56
Speaker
And some guys have six, some have four, some, you know, go and and have to take care of business. And when you're a first rounder, that's stuff you have to do. um You have to go and go on these offensive retreats with your quarterbacks and be gone for a week and you get your training out there. And that's where the communication comes from.
00:20:15
Speaker
But then you get back and now you have. you know, three or four weeks and like, how do you spend that time? And TMAC, like I said, it's kind of like one of those like exceptions to the rule where he will and and go and go and go and it it'll work.
00:20:32
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, what I told him is I'm like, Hey, you have already accumulated volume. Let's keep that volume and maintain it. And that's, that's another piece too, is like when these guys get back out to their teams for camp and when they start practicing for, you know, preseason stuff like they're not, it's not like volume might decrease a little bit, but they're still running a conditioning test, you know, as soon as they get back.
00:20:59
Speaker
So how do you prep them for that now? they get back and they really have to play football. How do you prep them for that? So, With TMAC, I had him on like a, you know, kind of like a four-day plan.
00:21:13
Speaker
um We lifted twice a week. We were on the field three days a week. And then he added in, you know, his receiver work and all of his routes because he had such a good setup in that his quarterback was out here. That's like absolutely perfect timing, location, everything.
00:21:33
Speaker
He was able to get in with his quarterback. He was able to run the routes that, you know, he knows that he's going to have to run. So he accumulated a lot of volume. But again, I think it worked for him.
00:21:45
Speaker
And he knows that and everybody knows, you know, you look at any initial depth charts for for anything that was put out and he's right up there. So first rounders like, you know, you know that you're going to be you're going to be rolling.
00:22:00
Speaker
So he knew that he had to be prepped for that. So we had him. Yeah, on the field three days a week. He was on the field essentially every day, except maybe one. Maybe one and then, you know, added in.
00:22:13
Speaker
you know, different pieces and and different factors. But I think his his thing was like, he needs structure. so how do we put that out and lay that out for him? So we had, you know, our Mondays was like Excel days, he still ran routes, he still did his receiver work.
00:22:31
Speaker
Tuesdays was more of his call it active recovery, but that's, you know, relative for him. So we had him in the weight room. um He did his boxing.
00:22:42
Speaker
did his PT, did a little bit of receiver work Wednesday back on speed. That's when we did like, you know, our max velocity, some diesel work got back to doing routes.
TMAC: A Force-Dominant Athlete
00:22:54
Speaker
um Thursday, again, more of an active recovery day back on back in the weight room. And then Friday i initially had it mapped out and we had talked about that I initially had that mapped out for kind of like our late transition late Excel transition day but realized after the fact and after he gave me all of his programming stuff that they all need to do essentially a fitness test when they get back. So we kind of added in and played around with that a little bit and did like tempo slash conditioning test and late Excel. So he got it I mean, he got it in like that is all I can say. Like he used that three, four weeks to absolutely maximize every moment that he had physically. Yeah.
00:23:42
Speaker
Is that always the smartest? Maybe not. Maybe there's some guys that that just literally wouldn't work for. um But he, like I said, every moment that he could spend training, he did.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting because when I was working with Arizona, and I was like semi-sport scientist, speed consultant. And you you would get his data from the game or practices and be like, oh, he did way too much. she's gonna be He's going to be way down. like it's you know This is going to negatively impact him.
00:24:13
Speaker
And then it wouldn't. It would be like a home like, why is it why is it that he's he's such a high responder to training? You know, it was crazy to see, like, there's times where you'd see him have, like, and an enormous amount of of sprint volume and and training volume and in a practice or a game.
00:24:33
Speaker
And you're like, dude, there's no way you're going to come back tomorrow and be able to do this again. And then boom, he'd do it. So it was interesting. He kind of broke my system at Arizona, yeah which which taught me a lot. Like it it also taught me that like from a profiling standpoint, you should be able to identify those outliers. You should be able to identify people that are more resilient.
00:24:53
Speaker
and can handle higher amounts of workloads and stress than other people. Cause it's all relative to the person. Like we talked about me being fat today. So like my workload level, I did the warmup and I almost threw up.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like it's, you know, but then the next person can can probably breeze through it. And which leads me to the conversation around like, what I've been studying a lot, which has been like stretch shortening cycle, ah tendons, things like that.
00:25:21
Speaker
And the more efficient you are with the tendons, the less metabolic cost you have to things that we, you know, deem as high intensity. So accelerating max velocity, decelerating, more efficient, you can, you can work the muscle tendon unit. So muscle tendon connection pieces,
00:25:38
Speaker
the more efficient you can become. It's the same it's the same reason why Kipchoge, the Kenyan runner who's run like two hours in the marathon or just below two hours, can run a marathon and have the same heart rate as an average person that runs a marathon.
00:25:54
Speaker
Well, what's the difference? Because originally it was like, okay, well, if he's an elite marathoner, he must have a different blood profile, which he probably does genetically and all that. But if you were to put a heart rate monitor on him during a marathon,
00:26:08
Speaker
and then on a regular person, there's not too big of a difference. So we know that the difference has to be at the muscular tenderness level where like every step that he takes has less of an energy cost.
00:26:21
Speaker
And if you watch him run, i don't know if you've watched him run, and I'll do a video breakdown sometime this week. But um if you watch him run, he's got this really nice contact, which leads to this little spring.
00:26:33
Speaker
you see his his hip drop when he's at full support. And then you see this really nice push off. And it's just so relaxed and it's so easy, but it's an energy conservation method.
00:26:43
Speaker
So what he's done is he's developed this ability to be more efficient. i think T-Max done that as well. And I think your training has helped him a ton with that. But like,
00:26:55
Speaker
Over the years, I've noticed that since high school, he has this ability to be resilient where it's like he just keeps going and keeps showing up. And he's matured a lot over the years also as well, like in terms of physicality. And I remember he was running like 19 in high school, probably because it was pretty but relatively easy to get open um for him just being as athletic and amazing as he is.
00:27:22
Speaker
And at Arizona, we got him to 22 miles per hour. And then now, like, I think he's a little bit heavier, but he's still running 21s easily. um And I'm sure, like, in a game scenario, he'd run 21 as well.
00:27:37
Speaker
um But, yeah, just to back into that, like, talk to me a little bit about profiling and things you you saw with him. Yeah, I think it's, I think that everything you said is, is super accurate. Because with, with athletes like that, that are these kind of different, like anomalies, it's like you almost can't tell because they are so relaxed.
00:27:58
Speaker
Like, TMAC is tall, and he's big, and he can move. And you know, it's funny because throughout, you know, the training days and the training process, it was like, and somebody even said that too. I haven't watched all of his YouTube videos, but somebody was like, oh, it's hilarious. Like there was one thing that he said where it was like, oh, what happens? You know, everybody's like, oh, TMAT can slide, TMAT can slide.
00:28:24
Speaker
You know, what happens when they cut the wings off? He's like, you still got to roll. You get to walk in like, To him, is just easy. Like it is, it's not effortless, but it is relaxed.
00:28:37
Speaker
yeah He doesn't look like he'll be running side by side and somebody else will be, might be, you know, right neck and neck with him. and he's going to turn it on. Like he has a very good ability to turn it on. And sometimes his 21, 22 mile per hour reps, like some of them are ugly, 21, 22 mile per hour reps. I'm not going to lie to you. Like, and his, his legs are movement heavy, but he is, he, it's a different build and he's kind of, he's kind of,
00:29:10
Speaker
matured again, like you said, physically over the years, like he hasn't, he's, he's gained weight. But what I think has, it's, it's really hard. And I notice I'm explaining this a lot to parents um is like, if you have this solid foundation first, and then you get a little bit bigger, or you add a new skill, or you get you know, you, you gain some weight and you still have a good speed and a good strength foundation. Like you're going to be so much more well off because your body is used to that.
00:29:40
Speaker
And your body has the ability to kind of adapt better to those changes. So he's been, you know, in good positions at Servite and at Arizona in order to manage his load correctly, you know, thanks to you, of course, but, and thanks to the strength coach staff there, but having,
00:29:59
Speaker
you know, these ideas of what a high level program looks like in terms of profiling, in terms of, you know, physical capabilities, like that's what gets him there. And that's what makes him like, well, yeah, I'm fast, but I'm fast when I need to be.
00:30:16
Speaker
And I know when to turn it on. And that's a huge, you know, kind of a huge piece too is like, and I noticed this as well, just kind of working with my high school team. Guys think that when you're in practice, I'm running 100%.
00:30:33
Speaker
Well, no, you're not. Data-wise, backed by science, you're usually not hitting 100% in practice. Your game day, that's your 100%. you know and And even then, you're you're you might not hit a top speed in game.
00:30:47
Speaker
You might not hit a top speed with pads on. And that becomes you know progressively different, obviously, between games, high school, college, NFL. But I think that knowing kind of what your body can handle and and knowing what your 100% is and then also being their coach and you knowing what their 100% That's important. Like I saw him some days and I'm like, Oh, I know how you're feeling because I've seen you run a hundred percent.
00:31:19
Speaker
I know what, and what numbers you're at, where you're at a hundred percent, this is not a hundred percent and that's okay. And we can, you know, modify as we need, but, um, knowing kind of the differences and that, that does come down to profiling as well. Like every guy is a little bit different.
00:31:35
Speaker
Frequency is different. Stride length is different. um you know, weight, leg length, like those are all huge factors that come into play. And I'm dealing with a six foot four, 215 pound receiver. I'm dealing with the six foot 190 pound receiver. I'm dealing with five foot nine, 180 DBs, you know, like that you do have to recognize the differences and kind of know where their strengths and weaknesses are and when to hit on those points.
00:32:07
Speaker
um because you have guys that are all training in that same group. And so how do you target that? So, no you know. That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm thinking, like, there's so much from that.
00:32:19
Speaker
Like, when I profiled TMAC on a sprint, i don't know if I even told you this, but he's a driver. So he's stride length and ground contact dominant. He also – is extremely forced like horizontal force dominant so like he's his a ability dominant yeah so is it and like half of that has to i mean do with like how strong he is but also arizona we did a lot of resisted running like a lot almost like there's there's times where there's like too much heavy resistance and like i've kind of gone back on that but
00:32:55
Speaker
Regardless, I think that he's developed a profile based around his leg length, which is long, where he utilizes it well. so He has a really good takeoff distance. He's got a really good hip projection distance, which I talked about last yesterday.
00:33:09
Speaker
um His ground contacts are okay. like he they're not They're not fast ground contacts. Let's be real. yeah it's not it's not a very reactive It's not a very reactive strategy, like to be honest. It's a very force-dominant strategy.
00:33:21
Speaker
And his ability to accelerate, especially in the early part, is elite. So whether he can run 23 or not, the first four steps of his are pretty similar to what those fast guys are running because of his ability to to get stride length and use his um extremely like strong hip extensors in the beginning part of the run.
00:33:41
Speaker
So, yeah, I thought that was i thought that was really interesting um because the driver profile is very force dominant. Go ahead. No, no, no. I was just going to say, and like force at what phase in the run is also different.
00:33:55
Speaker
Like, you know, some guys will have a better top end because they have, you know, the the better vertical forces and some guys are better in their start. And so, you know, that's one, one piece force to take force, for example. Okay. But force where and in what direction and at one point, which is huge.
00:34:17
Speaker
You know, he's better. He's better in the start and and can create that separation, which is great for a receiver. That's perfect. You know, that's perfect. But and unless you are looking at it and analyzing it like we are, because we have to know some, some people will look at that as, oh, he's slower than this other guy or, or vice versa. Oh, this other guy is slower than him, but okay. At what point?
00:34:41
Speaker
And when does he need that? Yeah, it's interesting because I also looked at his force plate profile from Arizona and he's concentric force dominant. So like his concentric nut impulse at 100 milliseconds was good. So like pretty good. His propulsive forces were pretty good.
00:34:58
Speaker
well What was he missing? He's missing the rapid eccentric braking, rapid eccentric deceleration. um He's got a decent amount of force on the centric side, but he didn't access it fast. And if you watch him run, I think it shows up. like When you watch him run at the top end, that first half of ground contact isn't great.
00:35:20
Speaker
It's not. yeah like he He literally will have more stiffness isn't great, and he'll have more deformation than he probably should. but he's so good at the back half of that, that he continues to get propulsion. It's almost like he's when he's running at top end, he's continuing to accelerate, which like yeah in in reality, if you look at his position, being as big as he is, being able to accelerate early and being able to to dis like create separation early,
00:35:51
Speaker
as big as he is, that's that's the game right there. like That's almost a profile in my am my eyes, like having limited football knowledge, but understanding from the physical demands of the sport, if you can create separation and you're as big as you are and have as amazing hands as he does, pause, like,
00:36:09
Speaker
Yeah, that was wild. cri That I'm lucky about that. Clip that one out. Clip that one out. Super pause. Like, talking about a man's hands. But that's that's the game.
00:36:20
Speaker
But, you know, looking at it now, going into year two, year three, it's like, well, if you also add in from a physical profile standpoint, the ability to have that breaking, which will help help you in the first half of that ground contact because it'll help you distribute those forces better in the first half of contact, which will allow you to get into ah propulsion sooner and and a little bit better.
00:36:44
Speaker
It's like, wow, like this is this is the makings of potentially the best receiver in the NFL. Yeah, and it and it shows up just in like, look at his reactive pogos.
00:36:58
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. But you can see the exact, exact position that you're talking about just in something like that. Look at his hurdle hops. Okay. Okay. But when does now, now when does that matter? Okay. So now I'm looking at that. Okay. Well, can I supplement something like that in the weight room?
00:37:18
Speaker
Can I do some more eccentric strength work in the weight room? Can I add pieces of that, you know, in and where I have the where I have the time for it or where i actually have the capability with him in Montana? It was great because it was kind of like i met I could map that out for them. So it was it was kind of on my call.
00:37:37
Speaker
and just working with, you know, Carolina's strength team and knowing what they have to do. um Where can I add that in and supplement that in and make sure that if he's not getting it right there or if he's, you know, on a down day right here, okay, where do I add that in?
00:37:51
Speaker
So that was, that was cool too. A thousand percent. And shout out Carolina strength team. They're amazing. I mean, the stuff they're doing, like they're, they're doing a level of profiling.
00:38:02
Speaker
know they're doing 10 80 work. It's, it's been cool because like, 10 years ago, there wasn't as much collaboration. And we also didn't have much of a name or anything. But the point is, is that they were collaborative.
00:38:16
Speaker
They shared a bunch of things. Like, it was super cool. And just what they're doing, like, shout out those guys. And shout out TMAC and JonJon, too, at Arizona. Well, now they're they move both moved on. But, like, we did some pretty cool stuff. And TMAC was amazing.
00:38:30
Speaker
part of the reason why a lot of this profiling stuff started getting built out because we were trying to solve, solve that problem. Six foot, six foot four, six foot five receiver, 200 something pounds that runs this fast. It's like, Whoa.
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah. This is wild. Yeah. Cause, cause then again, his profile is completely different and, and, And like, again, I kind of take some of this, all this stuff that I do with my pros and I take it down to like my high school level.
00:38:59
Speaker
Like I can't just put GPS on the 20 fastest guys. It's different. Like I have to, we have to put it on the quarterback. We have to put it on the linemen because do I have linemen running 19 miles an hour? yeah Need to put it on the guys that see the field the most.
00:39:17
Speaker
And that way I can kind of, manipulate in in a positive way, but manipulate the data and the training from that. And I think that you know we're going obviously more towards, like thank God we had all of that data on TMAC before he even got out here. We had right know years years of college data that and and just watching him play that informed so many of my decisions and our decisions when we're mapping out some of this training.
00:39:43
Speaker
like yeah and and there's And then there's outside factors that you're not, I didn't know you know that he was gonna be boxing and doing all this. And so, okay, cool, let me let me now incorporate that. Yeah, that was wild.
00:39:55
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That was wild. Especially now watching YouTube and seeing it. I'm like, right, bro. i i I didn't even know you were doing all that. I got to watch the YouTubes. because yeah he would be You're all over it.
00:40:09
Speaker
ah yeah it's like he would tell me like oh yeah i i boxed yesterday or whatever and uh i have only seen like the first or second ones and then i'm looking at his whole day like damn bro like yeah like gosh that's crazy and shout out his media team because they're fire Jay Griff killed all that and hit the but in the boxing dude. He's awesome too. Like everybody that was involved in his team, I will say like everybody was solid. And and I think that
00:40:41
Speaker
When you get to, and this is a whole nother topic of conversation, I guess, but when you get to that level and you work with high level athletes, it's like, if you don't have a team around you that you know has your best interests, then all your training was, was really, is really void because, and you don't have people that are kind of working together and, and, and know what you have going on. Um, it becomes really hard.
00:41:06
Speaker
because ah you know yeah that they'll share different things with different people. and and Just from ah from a training standpoint, from a mental standpoint, like if everybody's on the same page, that's going to 10 times your game past the physical point. you know yeah that's It's the hardest part about this because In the off-season training world, it's a lot of entertainment.
00:41:29
Speaker
There's a lot of yeah um coaches that want to entertain players, giving them what they want to see, what they want to hear. ah no They don't want to collaborate. In fact, ah most – not most.
00:41:40
Speaker
I've got to stop saying most. But there's a lot of coaches out there that want to take ownership of everything. Oh, I could do the strength. I could do the speed. I could do this, this, this. And I think one thing that sets you apart is like you're you've been collaborative with a lot of different people.
00:41:55
Speaker
And even me, like, you know, like we work to, yeah, I guess, yeah obviously, but yeah. Obviously, but but yes, but I think that it comes down to
Coaching Insights: Empathy and Development
00:42:09
Speaker
respectfully, I do not care if you train with me or not.
00:42:14
Speaker
um yeah again in the in the most respectful way possible everybody's like oh why aren't you posting all the stuff you did with t-mac or this or this or this and i'm like i don't really i i loved working with t-mac and i loved having you know him and montana there together that was like a great collaboration i'm happy to work with you know his receiver coach with tj and i'm happy to work you know with bryce and see what kind of routes they have today and and how that changes but that is more of like a a character trait than anything else. And I would argue, you know, one of my better character traits as a coach is just, you know, knowing that there's so many pieces of this puzzle and so many pieces of this fight. And if I can do good by people, that's going to do better by my athletes.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah, you got great character. ah I think back to when I first sat down with you at that coffee shop. Matt Cumberland. What year was that? I think that was the end of 2019. 2019. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:14
Speaker
twenty nineteen yeah yeah and I was like, what do you want to do?
00:43:19
Speaker
So what i what I ask you? Was it, what what do you want to do? You know, I was, i was working at that sports rehab place at that time. And you probably asked me, I mean, you've probably asked me that 50 times in the time that I've known you. And I would say that my answer has never like overall changed it's just gotten more specific like over the years has just gotten more specific because when i met you in 2019
00:43:49
Speaker
From 2019 to now my work ethic hasn't changed, my character hasn't changed or anything like that. I've just understood what I'm good at and understood my strengths and understood where I can best service people and how I feel most fulfilled. And then that in turn makes everybody faster because everybody believes in what i'm talking about.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah. Now you've grown so much over the past. I think back to that. I'm like, it's like I've known you my whole life. Right. It's funny. I got people asking me, ah do you know this, this coach Cece? I was like, I never heard, never heard of never Never heard of her. What's she like?
00:44:33
Speaker
No, it's, it's pretty crazy what you've done from, from, just a visibility standpoint also for women because it's it's really difficult. Everyone was like, how do how do you build women coaches? I'm like, I i forgot. I call Cece my brother. It's not.
00:44:47
Speaker
i It's just a person. it's not There's no difference between developing a woman coach and ah a male coach other than the fact that there's more challenges on the women's side, obviously. But like,
00:45:00
Speaker
The knowledge and the learning is the same. And I found early on it was actually significantly easier to work with women women coaches because of the intangible um characteristics. Like like you the character side, not saying men have bad character, but like your ability to be empathetic, your ability to communicate.
00:45:22
Speaker
what Obviously, like I'm not going to get in a debate, but women are better communicators than men. um They have to be. um, leadership qualities, like all the, all the things don't like you, but I'm gonna tell you nice things about yourself on a podcast. but Yeah. Well, it is, I mean, it's hard. It's actually, you know, as I get more into a leadership role on my side, like at the end of the day, like I credit you on all that stuff, like, because you never let me, um, you never let me be unsure.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I think that that as a woman is the hardest part. And what I think holds a lot of women back or holds them back from like, progressing past a certain level is like just this like feeling of like uncertainty or like, if you can get past these hurdles and whatever. And, you know, when I got into it, thank God there wasn't as much social media. And I didn't know how hard it was going to be.
00:46:21
Speaker
but you never let me be unsure of myself or it was never like a, there was never like a you can't question this. You just have to do it. And again, now that I'm coming more into leadership roles where I have to kind of delegate certain things or, you know, quite honestly put an instill confidence in, in people. I think that that's huge. Like we talked about that yesterday.
00:46:47
Speaker
You put a quarterback, who hasn't been given any confidence, has been, you know, gradually put down by teams for, for whatever reason, hop around to teams and you finally get with a team that gives you some confidence and you go and ball out.
00:47:05
Speaker
Like, so now you give somebody leadership and you give somebody responsibilities and yeah, you, you, are going to scold them if they're doing something wrong, but then you put your arm around them afterwards.
00:47:18
Speaker
You know, that's how you build character and that's how you build good leadership and and confidence. Coaching is you fuck up. You can cut that. but Sorry. No, you can say fuck on here.
00:47:30
Speaker
You fuck up, but then, you know, you get back up and you do it better. I'd i'd say this all the time. Shout out Trey Lance. Shout out Trey Lance. And shout out Trey Lance.
00:47:42
Speaker
Incredible. crazy Crazy story. Like, crazy story. and We talked about it yesterday, too. Like, they were talking about putting Trey Lance in the CFL, saying that that's a good look for him. What? He should be a starter in the league.
00:47:53
Speaker
What? CFL? I see. Not over Herbert, but, like, the dude should be a starter in the league. Right. Right. For sure. 100%. And that came down to confidence. Him balling out in that preseason game, that first – bro, came down to confidence.
00:48:07
Speaker
Did you see his face after, like, all these plays and coaches that are coming up to them? And, like, you can see it in his face. It's a visible difference. And I'm not trying to shit on any other team and specifically or organization necessarily.
00:48:21
Speaker
– but you instill confidence in players and in quarterback specifically, watch them thrive. Yeah. Well, everyone has to be coached differently. Like I have two kids and I coach them very, I don't coach either one of them, but like I parent them differently.
00:48:36
Speaker
Alana is very sensitive and soft. Mila is a dog. Like she needs to be, yeah you got to talk to her. Like she's a 45 pound like pit bull. Like it's just like, bro, like this is what you're doing. Like it's crazy.
00:48:49
Speaker
um yeah But yeah, like it's, that's something that you have a skill set in. And I think it's an intangible, I noticed it quickly. Like we started working and I would ask the guys, how do you feel?
00:49:00
Speaker
I'm fine. And then they would come to you like 10 seconds later, like, yo, this hurts, this hurts, this hurts. What do I do? And it's like, all right, well, you start to realize like the the different roles people can play in the team. It's like, ah well, I'm not going to be the most empathetic and understanding and all that. Like, you know, and just naturally, but just, you have that. yeah you mother Like youre you are your mom, basically.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah. You're your mom. Yeah, 100%. Just a little, you know, a little rougher on the edges. my one was like, literally the sweetest person I've ever met. And I think I actually am too. I just think I've seen a lot more and like, have had to, you know, I know my audience as well.
00:49:39
Speaker
Like, You've listened to too much rap music, I think, though. Because there's yeah there's ah some those playlists are terrifying. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. They are. I'm not going to lie to you. like I was sitting there the other morning, and like I put my phone on shuffle. I was like, oh, my God, I'm scared of myself. like this is who are Who are your top top five artists right now?
00:50:00
Speaker
I don't know any of them, I'm sure. Just give three to five names. Yeah.
00:50:06
Speaker
not gonna look at my playlist um you know i always got to keep mozzie in there um i would say right now i'm listening to like hurricane wisdom you see that's what i'm saying absolutely okay what does ebk stand for you don't want to know i know but i shouldn't know i'm from things just say i didn't know that i can't what is it what is it what's eb okay all right you know that um ah bad but but okay what I will say what I will say about that like i do actually unfortunately and like I'm not proud of this like I do listen to that music by myself but what I do what I do think is you also in certain ways like you do have to be relatable to these guys especially as a girl i haven't put pads on a plate I don't know what that's like what other ways can I relate to you in
00:51:02
Speaker
We, you know, I'm older than most of them. um I'm a girl. I've never played football. So like, what are what are the other pieces that we can relate to on?
00:51:12
Speaker
Do we have, you know, similar sense of humor? Do we think the same videos are funny? Do we like the same music, whatever? Like guys are going to have more of like this buy in peace and not even like consciously.
00:51:26
Speaker
It's more of like a subconscious like, oh, well, she listens to the same kind of music as I do. Like, I'm going to hear what she has to say, whatever. And again, it's it's unconscious on my side too.
00:51:38
Speaker
Like, is it music that I actually like? Yeah. Yeah. will i play it and then're like okay see like okay you know that's terrifying this it is terrfifying hundred percent terrifys terrifying terrifying like i said we listen we listen to a lot of uh chucky for while that was a crazy phase that was a crazy run chucky was a crazy run that that i don't listen to by myself okay all right that's all wanted to know we're good we can move on um All switching gears beyond EBK, whatever.
00:52:12
Speaker
but Don't Google that. if you're listening, do not Google it. Yeah, don't Google it. Anyway, um okay, I know we just got FirePod GPS set up with Cece.
00:52:23
Speaker
And, um like, I'll be honest, on my side, it's been the cleanest process, easiest process. And, like, it's been cool to kind of work with Nick as he's my neighbor.
00:52:34
Speaker
So it's been cool to just go there and, like, developing different pieces of it with him and understanding, like seeing how he does it. He's got a whole setup in his house. It's crazy. But what's your experience been like with Firepod and how's that been?
00:52:48
Speaker
Firepog's been good. i think, um you know, you get used to products and that's ah kind of a strength and weakness on like a coaching side is you kind of try to like toy around with different stuff or you get in the rhythm of certain stuff. And, um you know, you got to deem what's necessary and what's not. So for me, GPS is necessary for for all my groups.
00:53:10
Speaker
um But like now that we're in in season for my high school group specifically, um GPS is important because at the end of the day, i as you were at Arizona, become a sport scientist and they're only worried about the players are only worried about, you know, Oh, what speed did I hit in practice? Or what speed did I hit in the game, which is fun. That stuff is fun.
00:53:33
Speaker
I can be live at their game. And they can come up to me after a crazy play and be like, Oh, how fast is that? And they're hyped. That's great. I love that. But for me, that's different because I have to create practice reports, create game day reports,
00:53:48
Speaker
And now I have to be the one that has to go to the coaches and say, Hey, he's orange flagged for today, medium risk, um cut a couple reps when we've seen when you know, when we deem fit or whatever it is.
00:54:01
Speaker
So ah GPS is is major for me and, and the fire pod was, was huge because they're live interface is really good and they're kind of like yeah user visibility is really good. It's like a such a streamlined process and you can do it from your phone and I have, you know, my, my top speed sessions and I can give that to them right there. So process has been great.
00:54:29
Speaker
um Accessibility been great. Nick has been great. So I have no complaints on that side. Yeah, and i we you know obviously we've used every GPS. I think the initial piece was starting with Combine, and like we were able to create reports really fast.
00:54:45
Speaker
And i also, were able to customize some stuff in there as well. So looking at the DOS, breaking into categories like the cell load, the speed zones, all those things, like that's been pretty cool as well. Yeah.
00:55:01
Speaker
Yeah, i you know, so again, if you go back to like collaboration to like us being cool with Nick and, you know, us being able to like actually give live feedback of, oh, hey, even though this isn't something that's available now, can is this something that we can add, which is huge?
00:55:20
Speaker
yeah I can go also right now. I could see everything that you've done. With going to beach, you know, yeah. which is Which is helpful, like having having a layer of ah cloud-based because now you can see what I'm doing. I can see what you're doing.
00:55:39
Speaker
I'm in here now. Yeah. And you can, what I think is cool too, is something and something that we've like learned over the years is let's look at some of this data that we did with Arizona or that we did with our pros and what can we bring down to that level? Or like, you know, my whole practice reports comes from general data off of like Arizona's training load.
00:56:08
Speaker
And if if these 20 guys are seeing the field the most in this, you know, position group, can I tailor that a little bit? Will it be, you know, exactly the same? No, but I can at least get like a better feel for what I can compare those thresholds to, which was super important too Yeah. I forgot we did that.
00:56:27
Speaker
yeah yeah Nick was like, Hey, CC sent me this practice report. I was like, Oh, I forgot we did that. Yeah, I still use that yeah it's like a lot i' so i've used most pieces of it. But it needs to be like, and all this stuff, again, trial and error, refine it, what worked?
00:56:50
Speaker
What? um I got a new one for you. Yeah, there was shit that worked. There was shit that didn't work. You know, and what's what is still important? Because what's what's important to me?
00:57:04
Speaker
when i first started with them three years ago when they were playing d12 and you know was it not like a is that a real thing or are you joking it's a real thing no i'm not i wish i was d12 one two d12 to d correct and then last year they played d4 cif you know so like crazy crazy run crazy run um what are some of the fastest speeds you you've seen In high school? In Laguna, in game. and game twenty ah one I think we had 2201 last year Charlie Hunt.
00:57:42
Speaker
Charlie Hunt. i'm Damn, yeah that's crazy. kids like a He's like a rugby kid now. and you know It's funny because I actually love, like everybody's like, oh, would you ever move to like a you know ah higher level program? I'm like, this is my dream.
00:57:57
Speaker
Like for half the they like for half the kids, this is a hobby. And then they get fast and and they get good. And then it's like, oh, I didn't know that I could do this. Or I didn't know that I was good.
00:58:12
Speaker
Or they'll, they're funny too. High school is funny too, because they'll see a NFL guy running 2021 something in game. And they're like, oh, coach, I did that. I'm like, yeah, you did. They're like, so is that real? I'm like, I love that question.
00:58:25
Speaker
They always say that. Is that real? And I love that question because then I get to explain some of the stuff that we've been talking about today is the difference in games.
00:58:37
Speaker
So you have so much... Less space in the NFL to hit 21 something in game because you're going against NFL defenders.
00:58:49
Speaker
High school, you got the field because respectfully, that's a different style of defense, a different level of gameplay. So you can actually you have more space, you have more room.
00:59:02
Speaker
um you have more skill to show off because it's a different level playing style. Yeah. So I love being able to explain that to him. Way more space. Way more space.
00:59:13
Speaker
That's dope. um And i everything that we're talking about brings me to a point that it's really important to coach multiple levels, not just coach pro. And I know there's coaches that are like, I only want to work a pro. I don't want to work with kids.
00:59:28
Speaker
Well, the pro stuff's easy. yeah you could You could write it down and just – they know how to do most of the movements, you're going to say. It's very generic. It's very boring.
00:59:39
Speaker
At the high school level, you have to be very Yeah, the easy stuff we do. Yeah, yeah you got you got to be very creative and you have to develop personal skills. So you have to be able to develop relationships. You have to be able to i create energy. You have to be able to demand respect and those things. like Because it doesn't matter who you've worked with. i I remember walking into Del Norte and we worked with them and we had just come off of working with like ah number one pick or Heisman, whatever.
01:00:09
Speaker
Kids don't even know who you are. Like, who are you? Why are you coaching me? It doesn't matter who I've coached. doesn't matter what I've done. i think a lot of people step into spaces in this industry. It's like, do you know who I am? do you know what I've done?
01:00:20
Speaker
no they and No. And it truthfully, it doesn't matter what you've done in the past. If you can't communicate, if you can't develop relationships, if you can't lead, it's goingnna it's going to show up at that at that level.
01:00:32
Speaker
it's At the NFL level, they'll respect. Most of the guys will respect what you've done. And they're they've they've been – if you make it to the NFL, you've been conditioned to respect coaches and work with coaches and learn no matter who you are.
01:00:49
Speaker
And I think the NFL does a really good job of developing, like, their ability to to manage that, dealing with different types of coaches and personalities and all that stuff. But at the at the youth level, you've a ah huge variance in that.
01:01:02
Speaker
You've got kids that won't listen. You've got kids that don't respect them. You know, doesn't matter who you are. and And I think what you've done is impressive to me because you give Laguna Beach the same attention you gave TMAP.
01:01:18
Speaker
You know, that's not that's not an easy thing to do. And i know I know we've done like Together Ship, Laguna, like all these different programs, but I don't We're going to having a lot of these talks. So I'm going to ask you the question that you hate, but like, what's next? Like, what, where do we go next from here?
01:01:37
Speaker
And obviously I'm going to put you on this podcast as much as possible. What are you trying to do next, bro? Where are we at? I'm trying to have a family. So i you can have one of my kids.
01:01:51
Speaker
Mila, come here. You can have, you want that one? Right. Or the other one. And that's that's just like a ah honest overall answer. Like I think that i I had to think so much about that question when my mom got sick of like, what do what do I really want? I realized how important in those moments where, you know, I was at the hospital all night, every day, every night, breathing.
01:02:19
Speaker
hoping that things would get better. Like, what do I really want? And like, what were my priorities? And, and I have consistently prioritized work, and I will consistently prioritize work. But at the same time, like me sitting there in my mom's hospital room, I'm like, yeah, I prioritize family, clearly.
01:02:41
Speaker
So I want to make everything that I touch the best possible product that I can. um And not just from a business standpoint, but as like a creating better humans standpoint.
01:02:59
Speaker
um So I want to continue with Laguna. I'm now year three with them. and Yeah, I've worked with some of the best athletes in the NFL and different leagues.
01:03:13
Speaker
um But what I feel like I've done at Laguna, like in my perspective, is the coolest shit I've ever done. um So, you know, continue that, continue to progress them, continue my academy. ah That's been great.
01:03:28
Speaker
We didn't even talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. I know we're going have to, we're going to have to hit on that episode. two and i episode three episode Yeah. Yeah. real. Like remember when like Lana was born and,
01:03:42
Speaker
yeah but no the family thing's real like i remember when like lanna was born And she was born at a time that we're just coming off of like high, high, high, like all these crazy things that happened.
01:03:55
Speaker
um We just got our first like number one pick in the draft. And all I cared about was work. And I, when I had my daughter, I was just like, guys, I don't, I care, but I don't.
01:04:06
Speaker
ah yeah I don't care to continue to try to reach certain heights so so things look a certain way if it takes time away from family. And at a certain point, you ah kind of went one way where I was like, I don't care at all. And then went back to I do care, but I only care about meaningful projects. And like you have a lot of meaningful projects right now.
01:04:25
Speaker
and that's That's where you're you're driven.
Balancing Life: Authenticity and Happiness
01:04:28
Speaker
ah you could be driven from money in this industry where you're just doing things for the money, but that's short-lived. You just won't be happy. like you'll You'll end up making money, but it won't bring the happiness. like Anybody can make money. I can go on Amazon right now and just start reselling stuff and make money.
01:04:44
Speaker
It won't bring happiness. Yeah. I think what my advice and not to you, but to the world, like if you're listening this, you're just starting your career in the industry is chase the things that you love and do it with people that you love.
01:05:01
Speaker
And I love you. I've been doing this with you forever. You know, more, I've been doing this with you in my career longer than I have it now. Yeah. You know, and like you're, yeah you're stuck, you're, you're trapped. You can't go anywhere.
01:05:17
Speaker
ah your location. Yeah. Yeah. But you want to do it with people that you love, you know, yeah it doesn't. and And to be real, like to be so, so real, like you won't make money and be successful unless you find that or unless you're not a good person and you just like screw over everybody kind of like on the way up and like that's one way to do it if that's your style.
01:05:40
Speaker
um But then you end up unhappy as well, just rich. um But Seek meaningful projects and do it with people that you actually care about, not just on a business level too.
01:05:53
Speaker
um Like you and I have been through so much shit together personally, ah each of us individually and been able to support each other. so I think that that like strengthens our professional relationship too.
01:06:07
Speaker
So, you know, do shit with people that you care about and do fun stuff. And like, you still got to have fun there. And there's, there's moments in there. Like there's been moments in the last five years. I'm not having fun, bro.
01:06:21
Speaker
Like I looked at it. I'm like, I'm not having fun right now. And, and then, and that might last too. Like that could last a couple of months. And is it a personal thing? Is it a program thing? Could be either one. You know what I mean?
01:06:35
Speaker
yeah, Like you still need to have fun. And like, yeah no matter what throughout all this stuff, ah you know, that we've gone through in the last couple years, that's like ah ah majority of that. Like I've had so much fun.
01:06:50
Speaker
had so much fun these last couple of years. So much fun. It's unbelievable how much fun it's been. Like, unbelievable. I was thinking about that the other day. I was like, what should me and Cece talk about? And then I wrote, like, one thing down. i was like, whatever, we'll just talk. But we've had so much fun and continue to. Like, we spent a lot of time together. It's a dream. It's...
01:07:12
Speaker
It's everything you would want in in your career. Sometimes you forget because of the stress and the pressure and to perform. But then you look back at it and you're like, amazing. It was a blast. Like 2022 draft or like, I don't know. i you have so This year during combine, we had a lot of fun.
01:07:29
Speaker
But you you end up you end up spending more time with the people you work with than you do your own family. Yeah. so Which I love, though, because – Like i I told that to my Laguna kids a couple months ago. I'm like, damn, like I spend more time here with you guys than I see my family or I see my friends. And they used to like laugh it off. And then the last time I said that, they were like, we are your family and friends.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, like you you are. and You know what? You're right. You're right. So now, now how do you look at it? Like that, them actually saying that kind of changed like my perspective on even working with them. Like I get to do something that I love, something that's going to make them better, something that's going to make me better. Like those kids make me better.
01:08:15
Speaker
They make me a better coach. They show me shit about myself. They, um you know, hold me down when I'm going through it. I hold them down when they're going through it. Like, it's like, you know, you, ah you become this, this like, relationship, and you know, you become their coach, and they're, they're, sometimes their friend and their therapist, and this and that.
01:08:38
Speaker
And then you realize that, yes, it's work, but you're doing something meaningful, like you are showing up, you're, you're creating this like environment where people feel welcome, and know they're going to get better. And you know, know that they're going to stay healthy and everything else. And Then it's like, yeah, it's a blast.
01:08:55
Speaker
you know Yeah. And you got to choose wisely because like it could be the opposite too. So if you're choosing things based on the money, you might pick a situation that doesn't fit you.
01:09:06
Speaker
Yeah. You know, you might work with kids you don't want to work with, which is, you know, it's miserable. It's miserable when, when you, you receive money for things that you don't love doing, you know, that's, that's. And it'll show in your work too.
01:09:23
Speaker
It'll show in your work too. I've been there and it's even back to this podcast. So I did 76 episodes from 2020 to 2023. I deleted 50. I kept 20.
01:09:36
Speaker
Those 20, I looked at this last night, believe it or not. Those 20 136,000 downloads in like a small timeframe months.
01:09:48
Speaker
It's in like, to give you context, like that's, that's crazy. And I, but you know what? I was at a time where I didn't love it. And it was like, I just, ah I'm going to stop because ah I'm doing it. It doesn't feel organic. It doesn't feel authentic. It doesn't feel like it's not, it's not where I'm at right now. And it took me almost two years to get back to that place where I'm like, this is something I want to do. And I want to do it for a completely different reason. It's not for growing anything. It's not for like anything other than helping other people.
01:10:21
Speaker
And I think that's, it it took me two years to get to that point. And then I'm like, who am I going to do that with? It's like, obviously CC. And then Danny, obviously he brings a whole different perspective on the health side, which is, I think is super valuable.
01:10:34
Speaker
And yeah it's changed art. It's changed the game for all of us. But, um, It's taken a while, but now it's like, think about 2020, 2021. twenty twenty twenty one i was filming every day.
01:10:45
Speaker
i was I always had a camera in my face. At the same time, I had a new newborn for the first time. I'm living in a small apartment with my family. now Now we got this house where I have a podcast studio and a gym and a...
01:10:59
Speaker
sauna and all this whatever but like it was really difficult for me to to be outwardly focused on let's produce all this content let's do all these things when I was going through what I was going through with ah having a new family and now for the first time i look back at all that stuff which I hated at the time and I'm like oh I actually kind of like that stuff like We did, ah did three courses back to back. I did all those podcasts. I did all this content.
01:11:25
Speaker
And then if you notice, like I hadn't posted on Instagram for weeks or like haven't posted on TikTok in it over a year and I built a hundred thousand on that. And it just wasn't organic. And now for the first time, it's cool because like I feel like I'm finally back to that place where I want to do that with a different approach.
01:11:44
Speaker
you know this You want to talk about it now too. yeah When you're in the mix of everything, that shit is hard to talk about. like You asked me how I'm doing during combine, I'm going to say good.
01:11:56
Speaker
I'm in the dumps. You know what i mean? You get to this point and you come out of that and you see like the actual product and success of what you've done. And now you, you can talk about it.
01:12:07
Speaker
You know what mean? Like it's something that you want to share and you want to put people on game and you want to, you know, let it be known of, of everything that you did because, you know, if you don't, then nobody will believe you actually on some of that stuff with like how much you actually put into that, you know?
01:12:24
Speaker
So I think, yeah, there's, there's some separation. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You have some context to it and and you have some value. Like we at time starting starting a new company, which at the time i think you had just started interning.
01:12:43
Speaker
Yeah. Which is crazy. And yeah unpaid, by the way, unpaid. to like having having the baby at the same time. And I remember i remember very distinctly having to decide if we're gonna build a company with a certain amount of money or if I'm gonna pay my rent.
01:13:01
Speaker
Like it was so it was so hard because there wasn't anything like tangible because we had all these people. We had Drew, we had Todd, we had all these people we had to had to pay. And it's crazy to think about now it's like, it's very difficult to operate in survival mode.
01:13:20
Speaker
Very difficult because when you're in survival mode, all you could think about is now. So in the moment I didn't want to film. So like camera would be in my face and I was like, damn, I don't want to do this today. Like I ah just, I couldn't. And then how would, I would like rush through it and do it and rush through and do it. And like, I would never self reflect on if it was good or not or anything like that. Like I would obviously try to do a good job, but going back now, looking five years back, I'm like, Oh, okay. Like,
01:13:47
Speaker
you talk to your shit a little bit, but also, but also it's like, I could see my survival mode instinct in there where like my whole life, ah you know, I've been fighting since, since my accident, even before that. But like,
01:14:02
Speaker
just to get back to you know walking and running and sprinting. And then eventually that came to the coaching world where it's like, now I'm trying to get my footing. It's just like fight, fight, fight. And it's all fight or flight.
01:14:13
Speaker
It's all this really sympathetic, dominant nervous system stuff. And like now I'm sitting here, my my kid is in there screaming at me right now. I'm about to take her to potentially get induced today.
01:14:27
Speaker
so our next baby's coming. You know, um i um i don't feel like I'm in survival mode anymore. And I can actually sit back and be like, yo, this this is the contribution I want to make to the world. so I asked you that question. For me, like the answer is really just more of this.
01:14:42
Speaker
it's It's more time spent putting things out into the universe and this in and really um from a giving standpoint and not so much from a receiving standpoint.
01:14:52
Speaker
And it's yeah changing that frequency and that bandwidth a little bit to be focused on the coach that, you know, is coming up and like how I was and wishing I had little bit of context and, and, um and realness and not like some buttoned up white tie, you know white, white suit type doctor looking dude. That's like, you got to study this and got to study that. And then you get no life skills.
01:15:20
Speaker
Obviously yeah coming from DC, I feel like life skills I learned early. Yeah. um But when I got into the industry, that set of skills didn't didn't necessarily help.
01:15:32
Speaker
Because, like, I mean, it it did from the standpoint of, like, have your principles stand by and be authentic. Don't lie, cheat, rob people, or beat them up. Okay, cool. But from the standpoint of, like, how to navigate this industry, you and I have...
01:15:47
Speaker
kind of define some of that stuff and how to be authentic and how to be real and how to stay yourself even as you climb. So like, yeah, that's, that's really the, the, the point of this podcast, which I haven't even told you and now I'm telling you openly, but that's, that's the point of why I've been trying to start. You know how many months I've been trying to start.
01:16:06
Speaker
We've started, we've set dates 17 times and just not done it. Yeah. You know, So yeah here we are. and this is This right now, i'm inside I'm living inside of my dream for the first time in my life.
01:16:19
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Because you can talk about shit and what you've been through and how it's made you a better person and a better coach with somebody that you trust.
01:16:30
Speaker
And now that would that's arguably what my best trait as a coach is like all these all these kids, again, I don't care if you train with me or not, I'm it's it's not going to change what I do.
01:16:44
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you, im going to, ah you know, outwardly give you game. And if you pick up on it, and you buy in and trust what we're saying, then great, let's ride. If you don't, then that's okay, too. It's not going to change how I operate or me as a coach. And, and just like how, you know, we're kind of talking this podcast, like we had no, we had 10 topics that we could talk about. We, I called you last night I'm like, Hey, what do you want to talk about? it's Like, I don't know.
01:17:11
Speaker
Okay, cool. There was no like going into this. It was like, it's going to be exactly off the cuff. It's going to be, you know, a conversation between me and my best friend about shit that we do.
01:17:23
Speaker
It's great. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's good. better that intern Yeah. And that in turn helps other people like you and I both. I definitely didn't have, you know, this raw, honest transparency and feedback about what it's going to look like and what the path is going to be and how many times you're going to go back and forth and doubt yourself and do this. And now we're at the point where it's like, we can...
01:17:47
Speaker
tell people and and authentically give our experiences that is now just be yourself and continue on, you know? So I think this podcast is like the best thing that you could have done. You and I could have done.
01:18:02
Speaker
So let's keep it rolling. Yeah. Facts. Let's do it. Yeah. I mean the best, the best takeaway from it is like be yourself. And if people don't like it, it's fine. It's cool. But like, that's fine. Everybody will respect authenticity and, know,
01:18:16
Speaker
looking back in our, you know, the one thing that I'll credit all of us was that were authentically ourselves mainly because we didn't know any better. we didn't go the traditional routes, but this is the mission of this is to help people. Like you can be really smart. You can be really, you know, you could be, have all the letters behind your name, but like ultimately the principles of who you are can't be compromised. And,
Speaking Out: Integrity in Industry
01:18:42
Speaker
The principles of what you stand for can't be compromised. Like I stood up in front of a crowd of people ah month ago and I was at a sports science like seminar or whatever. what um was at a sports science, what do you call it? Like speaking engagement.
01:18:58
Speaker
And I talked about starving children and openly. And, you know, I obviously talking about situation in Gaza and I had this guy who works at SpaceX tell me this isn't the time or place. And I was like, well, I'm sorry, but number one, ah can't be fired.
01:19:19
Speaker
Number two, this is the time and the place because people avoid issues like that because they're afraid of being fired. They're afraid of being judged. They're afraid of all this. And that's what perpetuates these issues. That's what makes these issues worse.
01:19:32
Speaker
This dude stood up and told me this isn't the time or place. He said, in fact, you should talk about it over beers. I'm like, no, that's and I don't drink. Number one. Number two. the The point is is exactly what you're saying, is that people will be criticized if they speak up about things they believe in.
01:19:49
Speaker
And that's that's the part of the industry that really frustrates me is that, you know, it is gate-keeped a little bit. Like, if you talk about certain things, you may not get a job. And if you don't get a job, you can't feed your family.
01:20:02
Speaker
So, cool, well, I can't be fired. Now you could not like me, you could not buy products, you could not support what we're doing. But I'll hustle. So like I care more about being real and authentic in this space than I care about the the other side of it. Because I can find a way to hustle.
01:20:19
Speaker
I can... I can do anything. I can work for Amazon. it's It's not important, but you can't, you cannot be fake and so and be happy.
01:20:31
Speaker
You cannot. it There's a disconnect between who you are. I could be happy right now working for UPS if I have my family and all this, and there's nothing wrong with working. My dad worked for UPS and retired from UPS.
01:20:43
Speaker
He was super happy. he had his family. Me my dad have an amazing relationship. He was happy. But he was authentic and he was himself. You can't be fake and happy. I'm sorry.
01:20:53
Speaker
So that's the last part I wanted to leave with. Yeah. And we already said that too, but you you can actually, you can faking, but then you fake the happiness at the end of the day too.
01:21:06
Speaker
Like not yeah you can you know do a bunch of people greasy and you can make your way to the top and maybe you'll have a little money, but then what?
01:21:18
Speaker
Then what? Then you have nobody to share the money with because you ruined everything in your path. And would you say money can't un-lame you? Money. I got years ago and that still stands. Money can not un-lame you.
01:21:33
Speaker
Just exposes the person you are. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. All right,
Closing Remarks: Light-hearted Goodbye
01:21:38
Speaker
dude. We've been out here 80 minutes. I love you. I like your little ring light too. You get a nice little glow to you. I know you're like, you're like, Oh, do you have a light? I'm like, I have a vanity mirror. So we should do a house tour the next podcast and get little. Okay.
01:21:53
Speaker
I'm in. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Hopefully you guys don't come back for the tour of my house. We'll talk about other things. All right, dude. I'll talk to you later.