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Extended Clip - Is There REALLY A Conspiracy Against Juventus?
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Given the the latest revelations about statements made by senior officials in charge of the Juventus investigations, Carlo Garganese and Nima Tavallaey debate the claims that there is a conspiracy against the Bianconeri in Italian football.
This is a clip from the weekly Thursday episode of the Italian Football Podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast. OK, well, listen, I try and be clear that two things can be true at the same time.
Juventus Transfer Fees Controversy
00:00:11
Speaker
Now, with this case, first of all, the plus Valenza scandal, as I've said time and again, Juventus took the piss with inflating transfer fees that they clearly did it on an industrial level.
00:00:22
Speaker
But on the other side of it, as you said yourself, Juventus being punished for this is on extremely shaky legal ground, especially given that there is no law against inflating transfer fees. I know it's more complicated than that.
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
Critique of the Juventus Penalty
00:00:39
Speaker
I consider the 15-point penalty a joke, personally. And I've also said that, you know, everyone does it. And obviously, there's reasons for why Juventus are the only ones that have been punished.
00:00:57
Speaker
as is put out in the question but you know the fact is as of now for whatever reason no one else has been punished not that I believe anyone else should or that Juventus should but as I have always said Juventus did it and they did it on an industrial level so I'm not
00:01:12
Speaker
arguing that they haven't done it. But there's two things can be true at the same time.
Juventus COVID Wage Scandal
00:01:17
Speaker
As for Juventus paying staff under the table during COVID, again, unlike the plus for lens of scandal, I have always said, let me say allegations. I was just going to say, you're going to get sued. Watch your mouth.
00:01:34
Speaker
with the event is allegedly playing stuff i'm just saying unlike the plus valenza case i have always said that this is incredibly serious i don't consider the plus valenza scandal serious i consider this to be extremely serious and as i've said and as i've tweeted on numerous occasions if you've enters are indeed found guilty of this
Comparison with Manchester City
00:01:54
Speaker
And from what has come out, you know, what has come out hasn't isn't the same amount of stuff that's come out, let's say on the Manchester City stuff where for me, it's an open shut case because it's all out there. It's been hacked. They've had their accounts and their emails and everything hacked and we've seen everything and they're admitting it. So for me, that's pretty clear with the event says it looks it looks doesn't look good for them, right? And it is if they are indeed when everything does come out and they are found guilty. This is incredibly serious. They deserve a heavy
00:02:22
Speaker
penalty and punishment for it. I don't know exactly what that would be, but I have tweeted that just from where we are now, 15 points or so, you know, I would I would say would be appropriate, you know, but again, we don't know the full information, but you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't
00:02:38
Speaker
you know, come back with the same, some of the same arguments that I have on the plus valenza scandal, because I don't, I consider that a bit of a joke that paid for 15 point penalty. But on this, this is extremely serious. This is, this is tax evasion. This is, you know, this is everything under the sun. Yeah. And there are, there are clear rules on this that you know, you can't do this in or outside of sport, in and outside of sport.
00:03:02
Speaker
So, it's very, very serious. With regards to Juventus being singled out, I mean, you're according to conspiracy. I mean, okay, sometimes... Well, it's because you referred to it, I think, as a witch hunt. And when you use that terminology, because a witch hunt is when someone's innocent, they're not innocent here. We can't say that. Okay.
00:03:19
Speaker
Okay, maybe I've used the wrong word there. But with regards to event has been singled out.
Why Only Juventus is Punished?
00:03:24
Speaker
Yes, in my opinion, they have been singled out. But for the same reason I've said before, two things can be true at the same time, I've not denied what you've enters have done in the plus Valencia case, or, you know, what seems to have happened in the in the pain, allegedly pain players under the table. But whatever the legal explanation is for why only events has been punished. And I know there are legal reasons for that. There are.
00:03:47
Speaker
There is still a fact that only Juventus have been punished. So in that sense, it is only Juventus that are being, well, you want to call it single doubt. Well, because Juventus, I mean, the language you want to use, whatever the explanation, only Juventus have been punished. So that's one point.
00:04:05
Speaker
The reason why Juventus have been investigated as hard as they have is because, again, publicly traded companies are under far higher scrutiny than non-public traded companies. This is one of the reasons why, for example, the Friedkins are trying to take Roma off the stock exchange.
00:04:27
Speaker
I mean, you know, because that way when it's a privately, fully privately owned company, you can't, of course, there are laws in place and you have to follow, but you're not as rigidly controlled and there are, it's a different set of rules because of when you're publicly traded, you know, you have certain advantages, but with every advantage comes a responsibility and so on and so forth. So there are levels, like there are different laws in place here.
Scrutiny of Publicly Traded Clubs
00:04:53
Speaker
And that's why inventors have been so severely scrutinized because they are publicly traded. And once you're publicly traded, you're also impacting the entire market, the entire stock exchange. And as such, there is much higher scrutiny, much higher scrutiny.
00:05:14
Speaker
And just, and the other thing that I've said, which he might be referring to is, and I've not said this as a conspiracy, but all I would say is that, you know, carrying on from the idea of being singled out is that, you know, even if you've entered so guilty of mass murder, whatever, even if it's absolutely clear as day that they're absolutely 100% guilty of going on a killing spree,
Bias and Fair Trial Concerns
00:05:42
Speaker
The fact is that with any case, with any case, you can't have, you know, you can't have, you have to have a fair trial. And when you have, when you have one of the prosecutors in the... Well, we're going to get to that, because that's the second question. Yeah, but this is important, though. This is important for me making my overall point. When you have one of the prosecutors in the Prisma Capital Games investigation saying publicly that he's a fan of Napoli, that he hates Juventus, that he's anti-Uwe,
00:06:12
Speaker
uh you know making fun of them not winning the championship which i don't think is that serious but still you shouldn't be saying it um you know when you have members when you have members of coney who are going to decide with the with from the on the follow-up on this case uh you know doing anti-uenters posts on social media not one i think there's three of them one of them said uh uve merda on on social media another of them making numerous numerous attacks on aniele saying that
00:06:36
Speaker
You know, the history of the annually is is one of crooks which might be true, but you can't say that You and saying that and saying the vendors must be relegated. He actually used those words the events must be demoted, you know, and then another one Okay, this you know You could still argue this is a conflict of interest But this is not so much for a big deal the fact that one of them is a former general manager of Natalie, you know
00:07:00
Speaker
That is a conflict of interest. It's not a fair trial. This has got nothing to do with the fact of whether they're guilty or not. It's just a basic requirement of a fundamental rule of law. When people talk about
00:07:19
Speaker
I want to talk about this. I know we're going to get to that question, but I just want to say this first now. You can come back to what you want to say on this when you get to the question from Arash. But the right to a fair trial is fundamental in the rule of law and democracy. So that, again, adds to the idea of, are they specifically these guys? Are they specifically targeting the inventors? So that's where that comes from. The final point I want to make on this is everything I say or do on or off this podcast
Passion for Serie A
00:07:48
Speaker
And anybody that's followed me for 15 years, back in the days when I was at goal, knows that, and I think most people know this, but you get a few fans that don't want to see it that way. Everything that I do is with Serie A's best interests at heart.
00:08:03
Speaker
You know, I'm not going to be right all the time. I'm going to make mistakes sometimes. I might use the language wrongly. I might get emotional because I love the league so much. But it's never about one club or another with me. Never. I've been in love with Serie A as a kid. It's my biggest love. I support every Serie A team in Europe, which let me tell you, most Serie A fans don't. They support their club and they cheer against their rival teams in Europe. I cheer every single team in Serie A team in Europe like it's my own. And all I want is a strong Serie A and a strong Italy national team.
00:08:33
Speaker
And, you know, so it does frustrate me when, and I think Janukoviale, the late Janukoviale, he had an amazing quote on this a few years ago, which I was trying to find before this pod, but I can't find it. But he basically said how Italian football clubs and fans and the people that work in the league, they're so short-sighted that they spend all their time fighting and trying to destroy each other, that they never come together to build something special. And that is what has helped kill.
00:09:00
Speaker
Italian football and it's one of the oldest rules in politics. You know, you'll know your politics. Divide and rule, divide and conquer, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, it's the oldest. While we, Italian football fans, Italian football clubs, Italian football officials, while we are fighting each other, our enemies, our enemies, if you want to call it the Premier League, are united and killing us.
00:09:28
Speaker
I just wish Italian football fans would unite a bit more. You might say some of the things I say sometimes are not, you might say that isn't useful for uniting people, maybe, but ultimately that's what I want. I want Italian football fans to be united.
Admitting Wrongdoing in Wages Scandal
00:09:49
Speaker
Just to conclude, to make it clear, what Juventus have done is clear.
00:09:53
Speaker
and they deserve a serious punishment for the wages scandal. Not the Puss Valencia scandal, I think that's a joke, I'm being honest. But the wages scandal, absolutely. If that is as it looks like, it looks like they're guilty, then absolutely they deserve a serious punishment for that.
00:10:08
Speaker
But that doesn't mean at the same time, I can't acknowledge, you know, that they're the only ones being punished for whatever reason that is, or the fact that, you know, there is a, you know, the conflicts of interest and, and, and we're gonna end up not as a fair trial, you know, again, I can still bring that up at the same time.