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Cameron Barr - Harmony In Heritage: The Intersection of Cars, Watches, & Native American Traditions
962 Plays9 months ago
Today I sat down with Cameron Barr, founder of Craft & Tailored to discuss watches, cars, and our newest obsession Native American link bracelets. Cam’s been in the watch game for a bit now, but he’s always done it his way. Although watches are what’s for sale, Craft & Tailored has their own image and brand that sets them apart because it’s not just about that. Cam’s love for watches is just an extension of his collections and it all creates a cohesive case study in sticking to what you love. So without further adieu, this is Cameon Barr, founder of Craft & Tailored, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Craft & Tailored - https://www.craftandtailored.com/
C&T's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/craftandtailored/
Cam's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cambambarr/
C&T's TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@craftandtailored?lang=en
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Transcript
Introduction and Passion for Collecting
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm on these perpetual hunts for things, whether it's watches or these bracelets or whatever. And these bracelets are like a perfect example because I love the hunt of this stuff as well. I find a lot of fulfillment and inspiration in searching and then of course learning about this stuff. And many times you come up empty handed, but it's that journey and that process, which I've really learned to love so much.
00:00:27
Speaker
What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Guest Introduction and Background
00:00:52
Speaker
Today I sat down with Cameron Barr, founder of Craft and Tailored, to discuss watches, cars, and our newest obsession, Native American link bracelets.
00:01:01
Speaker
Cam's been in the Watch Game for a bit now, but he's always done it his way. And although watches are what's for sale, Craft & Tailored has their own image and brand that sets them apart because it's not just about that. See, Cam's love for watches is just an extension of his collections, and it all creates this cohesive case study in sticking to what you love. So without further ado, this is Cameron Barr, founder of Craft & Tailored for Collector's Jume Radio. Cam finally got you on Collector's Jume Radio.
00:01:31
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I know it's been a minute. I've been a long time listener and big fan of the pod. So thanks for having me. My pleasure. I appreciate it. So we're of course going to chat about the usual suspects today, right? And craft and tailored and your background. But I also want to make sure we briefly talk about our do obsession that.
00:01:53
Speaker
we share, which is native jewelry, and we'll save it for the end. So let's start with Craft & Tailored, but a quick step back at what you were doing before you started. Yeah, I was in the technology business. I worked for what is called a value-added reseller. It's pretty
00:02:13
Speaker
boring if I can say that, not to take away from it. But essentially, I was working with big systems integrators and helping them build out their infrastructure. And the cool thing about that is it got me really deep into technology and drove an awareness within me about how connected everything is. I mean, everything today has
00:02:37
Speaker
wireless connectivity and Bluetooth and IP address. And that was kind of cool because I think today doing what I do for a living as well as kind of all of my passions, it allows us to connect to people that have a like mindset or similar passions. And that's helped us kind of with craft and tailored and really expand
00:03:03
Speaker
In our ability to connect with our collectors and people like mindset pretty much all over the world so it's really cool.
The Art of Collecting and Mechanical Fascinations
00:03:12
Speaker
Super interesting have you always been a very detail oriented person.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, even when I was a kid, I remember being very much into the small nuances and details of things. I think it was one of those things, I don't know really where it came from, but I always remember paying attention to things that maybe the average person or my average peer at the time
00:03:37
Speaker
you know wouldn't pay attention to so i always don't a little bit deeper and i think i always find myself asking the question or you know why why did the stitch of that jacket exist or in that way or what is it really using for this jacket and why are why did they use this don't over that stoner whatever element it is you know i find myself always kind of
00:04:03
Speaker
digging and diving deeper into things. As a kid, I also spent a lot of time reading and going to the library, and then in my early 20s, I would grab a coffee and hang out at the Barnes and Noble before Amazon, obviously, and just read magazines and books. I always had an interest in that. I've always been searching on this perpetual search for things, I guess you could say. As soon as I get that box checked for myself,
00:04:33
Speaker
I feel like there's this void and I'm always kind of in that perpetual pursuit. So you're working in tech and you kind of start to have this journey in love for collecting watches and vintage watches. And what else were you collecting during that time before you decided to start Craft & Tailored?
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think what's interesting about my kind of entrance into watches is I've always had kind of a mechanical obsession to certain things, whether it be cars or cameras or that kind of stuff.
00:05:11
Speaker
kind of this wanting to learn more about those things. And the funny thing is when I was in tech, I was surrounded by kind of a different crowd of people. I noticed that in the corporate world, in some cases, you're surrounded by things that are seemingly luxurious, right? Whether it's cars or clothes or whatever. But I always liked things that were
00:05:36
Speaker
made of quality and had, I guess, an attention to detail them that in many cases didn't even really have to do with price. So for example, when I had to wear suits, I always wanted things that were custom tailored or I wanted my own special touches on things, or maybe to find something through a maker that paid attention to the artistry and the craftsmanship and the little details.
00:05:58
Speaker
And I think the interesting thing too about technology is you're kind of banking on the refresh rate of things. You have these tech cycles that happen where ultimately the infrastructure or the piece of hardware or whatever is going to become dated and obsolete. And so you were kind of always wanting to learn or stay on the cost of what was happening. And that's ultimately kind of that business. But I also
00:06:26
Speaker
kind of didn't relate to that because I wanted to acquire things for myself, whether it be cars or clothes or natively watches that had a story and kind of yielded more towards the timeless classic kind of elements. And I put a lot of value into that. So when I was in tech and when I kind of first started to make a little bit of money, I wanted things that
00:06:50
Speaker
were crafting quality and in a way you know more timeless than just going out and buying the latest and greatest kind of thing just because i because i could so that was an element that i couldn't really relate to anything watches really possess that any any level right i mean you and i can talk about.
00:07:08
Speaker
you know crazy piece unique watches but also there's a bunch of kind of more entry level pieces like you know Seiko's and or you know kind of some of those brands that have elements of uniqueness and craftsmanship and I always found it interesting that you know those things in many cases didn't associate to the actual price of the item which I thought was really cool because I could find something that nobody else in the room or maybe in
00:07:37
Speaker
the city or the state was gonna have on but also it was kinda unique onto itself and that's the thing that I really loved about watches is there's so many variants, there's so many details, there's so many ways to get into collecting at any
Craft & Tailored - Personal Style and Brand Identity
00:07:51
Speaker
level. It really offered me kind of this open place of adventure and even today,
00:07:57
Speaker
I think many would consider me to be an expert in the field of horology and also specifically to vintage horology, but I'm still learning things every single day. There's brands that I'm still discovering and finding passion in that I never would have thought that I would have had an interest in.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I feel the same way. I feel like each day or each week or each month, something pops up on your radar that you didn't necessarily know existed and catches your eye for whatever reason. But it's interesting because I feel like a lot of people that are in your space
00:08:34
Speaker
struggle with finding their identity in terms of matching it to who they are as a person. And I find that that's so opposite with you because knowing you and your style, it's so synonymous with your brand, Craft and Tailored, that you look at a photo and it just makes sense.
00:08:52
Speaker
everything down to the way a photo was shot to the way you guys market it it's so your style and. Was that easy for you to kind of hone in on your own identity and who you are and just say this is who i am and this is what i think looks good and this makes sense for the brand or was it kind of a journey to match that.
00:09:12
Speaker
I don't know if it necessarily was a journey, but I think it was something that was always there. Growing up, I had my own identity in terms of what I had interest in. I don't know if I was necessarily easily influenced by the peer group. I, in many cases, always felt like the odd man out in terms of style or the things that I had interest in because either my peer group didn't understand it or they didn't care or whatever.
00:09:42
Speaker
I felt kind of alone in a lot of this. And then when I started Craft and Tailored and we're now, I guess, calling a brand, even if you look at the watches that we have on our website, if you look at the things that I have in my personal collection, a lot of it kind of, I guess, just is me. And I think that that was just kind of a natural progression of style and taste and I guess other people like that too.
00:10:09
Speaker
and find inspiration that and that's kind of cool too because i think for me i'm always finding inspiration and other people and other collectors with other designers or whatever and so it can be that for. Maybe some other people want to help them on their journeys i think one of the most rewarding and kind of feeling things for me because. I don't know if i think about it is consciously maybe as as one might think we kind of just do it and kind of put it out there and.
00:10:38
Speaker
People seem to like it which is cool but at the end of the day if nobody liked it i probably would think it was just as cool or just as interesting for myself so it's kind of a cool place to be i would say over the past few years especially. In being recognized i guess is having my own distinctive taste for style but you know even if it wasn't i'd probably still be doing the same stuff if that makes sense.
Personal vs. Business Collecting: Balancing Act
00:11:01
Speaker
What's the juxtaposition for you of being a collector and a dealer and sourcing all these watches for the site? I mean, you've seen, you've traveled the world looking at watches and buying watches and selling watches, so you've seen everything. Are the things that you're after for your own collection a little bit different from the things that you put on the site because you've seen so much and you've kind of honed in on what you want, or is it really tough to source this stuff and put it up for sale?
00:11:31
Speaker
It's kind of a mix of both. I mean, it's interesting because we have a pretty big social media following and we've kind of given the, I guess the enthusiast more of an inside kind of behind the scenes look at what we do and how we do it. And I think what's interesting about the collection that we have on the website and what's in my personal collection and things like that is, I think you'll notice things that we probably
00:12:00
Speaker
Don't have any many cases when we're buying or curating collections or whatever there's a lot that we don't get you'll notice that we don't really have that many like two tons of mariners on the website and they're not really in our archive and it's not a watch that i have anything against it's not something that i personally had ever found to be interesting to myself and maybe that's just an aesthetic thing or whatever but you know you'll see things on the site and within the collection and
00:12:29
Speaker
I think the really interesting thing is we really buy not based on the monetary value or the upside potential. We buy and curate what we really love. And I think that that kind of yields to the other part of your question, which is, is it hard to sell some of these things? It definitely is. There are moments where I'll find something and it's a better example than the one that I have in my own personal collection. You find something and it's such a good one.
00:12:59
Speaker
You know it's kinda like pokemon you gotta catch them all right but i think in my later tenure of collecting and sourcing and traveling the world and kinda seeing it all i think it allows me to be a bit of an anomaly from the perspective of i have seen it all and it allows me to develop that i and it has allowed me to develop that i for discerning what is good in terms of condition what is correct in terms of the engine spec and all that kind of stuff.
00:13:25
Speaker
But I think in my later collecting, I've been collecting now for what seems to be my entire life, whether it was baseball cards or coins or vintage guitars or Levi's or whatever, I think the thing that's interesting is I now value the sentimental kind of connection with some of these things. I'll give you a perfect example of this. Recently, we were over in Hong Kong and Japan.
00:13:52
Speaker
find for inventory and helping collector source of things and i found this really amazing reference ten sixteen now last year i wore three watches more frequently than others and one of the watches in that group of three watches that i found myself wearing more often than not was a ten sixteen now the watch that i found in hong kong was was.
00:14:18
Speaker
Basically a better version of what it was that i had and you know there's kind of that i think collector side of people that is like wanting the best or the example that's at the top of the key and i could easily sold the ten sixteen that i had or still have in my collection and kept that one for myself but i'm realizing that in some cases the kind of i guess.
00:14:41
Speaker
Collecting of the story and the adventure and the energy that I put into maybe some of these things sometimes is more valuable than maybe acquiring an example that is of a slightly better condition or whatever and it was funny because we we had this kind of like recap of the watches that we had bought in a single day and I kind of was like under my breath saying like oh man, this this one's actually better better than mine, you know, but I
00:15:07
Speaker
the watch that i have my personal collection this reference ten sixteen you know i've traveled with it i've kind of spent my time with it i have like these kind of memories and associations of my own personal life but i'm not tied to that watching so to sell that one i would kinda be also selling or getting rid of all those tangible experiences and memories and feelings that i have for that piece so you know that was an example of.
00:15:30
Speaker
You know oh god this one so good i would definitely find keep this one for myself but i think that kind of goes into a lot of the pieces that we buy were really buying. You know what we like and what we have interest in and it just so happens that you know other people share that kind of same same vision to. Yeah it's kinda hard when there's a story for it to not supersede things like slightly better condition and all that sort of stuff so that makes sense.
00:15:59
Speaker
We've seen a lot of vintage watches go up in value. If we just look at the history of watches, a good amount of them have gone up in value and continue to do so. When it comes to collecting, I find it fairly easy to pinpoint current vintage watches that will continue to go up in value.
00:16:19
Speaker
just follow the trends that they already have had already over the last 10, 20, 30 years. But what I find really hard is to try and pinpoint the modern watches that will do this. Other than the one offs, piece unique, ultra rare, super hard to get stuff, I get that. But I feel the same way about a lot of cars too. And I'm curious to get your take on this from an evolutionary standpoint. It seems inevitable, but the more I think about it,
00:16:45
Speaker
the harder it is to understand, is it possible that these everyday production models are going to rise in value over time the same way the vintage stuff has?
Collectibility: Modern vs. Vintage
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. And it's a question that I get asked frequently. And I think it's something that I definitely think about. I think if we really peel back the layers of quote unquote, the general horological onion, and I think this kind of also relates to cars or design or whatever,
00:17:13
Speaker
I think what people might not consider or think about is the way that these items or the way that these things were being produced. If we look at Rolex or Patek Philippe or any of those brands, I think what you see and ultimately what is celebrated
00:17:36
Speaker
is the variance of these things right so rolex you know for example in the map dial range of the gmt produce all these little different variants and i don't know i don't think rolex.
00:17:48
Speaker
was necessarily planning like this is a mark one dial we're gonna make this a long year old this is a mark three we're gonna make a little bit smaller and push them towards the center of the dial i don't really think that there was any foresight on their part to say create those variants to make them ultimately collectible and i think that in the way that those pieces were being produced at the time whether the car to a or you know i don't want to get or any of these brands i think that there was
00:18:16
Speaker
of variants due to the handmade nature and the handmade process behind all of this stuff, which yields these ultimately collectible variants, which we celebrate today. Even look at tropical dials, for example. That was a flaw in the lacquering process of a dial for it to go from, in most cases, black to this caramely brown color.
00:18:39
Speaker
In often cases, those watches were not celebrated. For example, if you went in today, bought a brand new Submariner, and then in 5 to 10 years, the dial went brown, you'd probably be pretty pissed if that happened. So now we celebrate that variance because
00:18:55
Speaker
maybe those dials were switched out or damaged or whatever. So I don't know if today, in a way that things are being produced, if they're ever going to achieve that type of patina. And I don't think that there's as many variants in modern production watches. And I think that's because of the mechanized process in which we see watches being produced today. We're leveraging
00:19:20
Speaker
all kinds of technology to create things in the watch world, whether it be Rolex or Audemars Piguet or whatever, that kind of have an element of predictability and uniformity, which I think is the way that the world is today. People want things that aren't going to age in patina and kind of have that new look to them for a really long time.
00:19:43
Speaker
do i see you know some variants of watches that are modern in terms of their definition that would then become collectible yeah for sure i think that there's their specific pieces out there but generally speaking my opinion is that a lot of the modern stuff that we're seeing today won't have the same type of collectability as as the vintage stuff and i think that really yields to the fact that you know these things whether it be cars or watches or whatever we're being produced in a way that was
00:20:11
Speaker
in many ways much more bespoke and by hand, and that's what allows for those elements of variance and differentiation, which I think makes them increasingly much more interesting than say something that is going to look the same 25 years from now versus something taking on a life or a patina of its own.
00:20:32
Speaker
Yeah. Makes sense. I mean, it's just interesting. You know, X watch gets released and it's obviously hard to get. And so it already commands a six figure premium over the list price. And that is something that with a vintage watch would happen over time, over 10, 20, 30 years, right? It would, it would start to gain little by little
00:20:54
Speaker
a premium that is commensurate with time. With modern stuff, you just see it right out the gate, go up these crazy inflated prices, come down a little bit, and it'll be really interesting to see what happens in the future here with some of this stuff if it stays. It's the same thing with the 911, right? Something that already costs six figures out the gate. Over time, how collectible are these modern 911s going to be when they're already commanding a six-figure price?
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the other thing that is something that I've always had a passion or an affinity towards is these things being, in a way, more cumbersome and less technically advanced, but finding the joy and the passion and the pleasure in that. Because if you look at a lot of what the modern automotive market is producing,
00:21:44
Speaker
you know it's like saying is it is it first generation tesla gonna be collectable in thirty five years well if you really analyze that is the technology platform that tesla or that modern nine eleven.
00:22:00
Speaker
Is it gonna be even relevant right because i think you know what for example they're a great example of. You know this iconic classic design if you see a nine eleven roll down the street whether it's from the seventies eighties nineties or you know current production you instantly recognize that iconic classic shape and i love a lot of the modern you know portion releases.
00:22:24
Speaker
I think what's kind of interesting is at some point there is a shift to where the technology was ultimately leading the design and you know you you look at a lot of these modern nine elevens which really run off of a computer you know that technology is ultimately going to become obsolete at some point and that's the interesting thing that i kinda realized in
00:22:46
Speaker
having spent a lot of time in the technology business, is a dial-up internet connection now relevant or celebrated? No, of course not because there's something that's better and faster and more convenient. And I think we're actually seeing that with cars from a collectability perspective.
00:23:03
Speaker
you know is a nine eleven from two thousand twenty four going to be just as relevant and or collectible in two thousand fifty well the question i think is is that technology platform that the car is ultimately built around is that actually gonna even be relevant is it even still gonna work.
00:23:21
Speaker
Is the component that's driving that is that still going to be in production and that's what we really don't know and I kind of see that with with timepieces or things that are that are seemingly more tangible and less partisan or craft in terms of their nature are those things still going to be relevant because that technology and that convenience
00:23:41
Speaker
Are those things still going to be working? That's the difference. If you look at a classic Porsche 911 from the 80s or even the 90s, the technology wasn't a computer. Maybe the luxury comfort feature was a power window or an electronic seat. There's an element I think in a balance there
00:24:08
Speaker
especially with watches, even on the modern side, that is sometimes really there at a certain level, or sometimes it's
Blending Vintage and Modern in Watches
00:24:18
Speaker
not. And then these things just kind of fall to the wayside and ultimately end up in the landfill, I think, at some point. So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's too early to tell what will or won't be collectible. And I think also what people really gravitate towards, because if you look at, for example,
00:24:37
Speaker
the Rolex Zenith era Daytona, you still have all those variants and all that stuff, but to have a self-winding automatic chronograph movement, it took Rolex so many years to really kind of invest into that idea and technology. The mechanical manual wound Daytonas really were kind of long standing in their product line for a really long time.
00:25:05
Speaker
A brand you frequently have on the site is Universal Genev, and as anyone who has any interest in this stuff knows, Brightling has recently acquired the assets and is going to start reproducing watches. Do you think that they're going to try and pull on the heartstrings of collectors like you and I and reproduce some one-for-one models, or are they going to try and pull the modern card and start throwing a pull router in a 42-millimeter case?
00:25:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's something that I thought about. When the news broke of that, I was actually really excited. Brightling is a brand that I think has done a great job over the past few years of paying homage to their history and heritage while also employing modern watchmaking capabilities, whether it's the components that are used or the use of, say, more modern materials like ceramic or whatever it is. Brightling, I think, has done a great job of
00:26:01
Speaker
doing things that properly take care of the history and the more heritage-based elements of the watches while still putting into a package that is modern and say more functional for today's needs. I'm hoping that it's something similar. One of the brands that I think has done a really incredible job of this is Tudor.
00:26:22
Speaker
Tudor has done a great job of incorporating some of those vintage elements and some of those iconic features into a very modern offering. One of my favorite watches that they released was the Black Bay 58 because when I put that watch on my wrist, I get Rolex big crown Submariner or Tudor big crown Submariner vibes, but it's a watch that I cannot
00:26:46
Speaker
against a door jam, hop into the ocean with, and not really worry about, right? And so that really checks all the boxes for me because I get those heritage elements that I so passionately love, but also there's a sapphire crystal. There's an increased death rating, right? The gaskets in the crown assembly and on the case are more modern. So I'm hoping that with like universal Genev, there is a little bit of that kind
00:27:13
Speaker
kind of modern but yet heritage vibe with the entire thing. And I think it's a great challenge for Brightlane relaunching the brand. And that brand was really ripe for the picking. There are so many iconic models. There are so many artful and tasteful details of these watches that we love so much today. And I think it's going to be really exciting to see what they come out with.
00:27:37
Speaker
And it's a brand that is favored by the collector you know there the thing that's really cool about universal genetics you know at a price point perspective and from a horological kind of perspective at the same time they were doing things that really kind of pushing the boundaries of watchmaking at that time whether it be a dial configuration or a movement there so much history there i think that that.
00:28:04
Speaker
brand being bought by bright lane is really exciting and really interesting but you know i think there's also a risk in that right because if you create something that's too modern and you're creating something that doesn't pay homage to this this kind of favorite. Call classic brand and it's something totally different than i think you're gonna lose people's interest and there's gonna be a lot of flack but then if you go one for one you know reproduction i think you lose a lot of the interest of say the modern watch buyer
00:28:32
Speaker
that maybe is looking for something that's more functional and more modern and it's overall feel and format. Yeah. They're walking a tight rope there and we'll see what happens. For sure.
Love for Cars and Watches - Parallel Paths
00:28:44
Speaker
All right. Let's chat about cars for a second. A common avenue for watch lovers and vice versa. Did cars or watches come first for you? I think they were kind of at the same time. I always had an interest in cars. I always liked things that
00:29:01
Speaker
were mechanical and had an element of artful design. And I think you definitely see that in the car world. You see different variants, you see different little modifications, you can definitely see the progression of technology in cars. And also there's an element of functionality to them that I really like.
00:29:23
Speaker
every watching my collection for the most part is a watch that i wear and that's kind of a deciding factor for me whether or not i'm gonna bring something into the collection or. Move it out of the collection am i wearing this is it something that you know i can can live with the same thing kind of cars for me is does this you know create a feeling or a vibe for me that is something that.
00:29:47
Speaker
brings me happiness and or functionality right and there's some things out there like from a car perspective that are just ridiculous anything with watches but i think for me it kinda happened.
00:29:57
Speaker
more or less at the same time. I think I always had an interest in cars. Maybe I know more about cars now than I did say 15 years ago, but I always think that I liked that stuff. Even as a kid, I liked old Mercedes and old Cadillacs and that kind of stuff. Things that were just as stylistically important as they were functional.
00:30:21
Speaker
Porsche is a big passion of yours, as is mine. What do you think it is about that brand that has such a cult following amongst the many other collectors that are in the same circle as you? I find it is one of maybe three brands at most that has this evolutionary collectability and just interest from such a mass amount of people.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think one thing that I've kind of noticed with Porsche in specific is that there's so many different levels of the Porsche collector. And I really related to that. I think you could be at the top of the key. You could collect every variant, every color, every model. You could be that type of collector. But there's also a subset of collectors that have one car. They wrench on it themselves.
00:31:13
Speaker
maybe it's their only thing that they have. And I really loved that. I love the Porsche community because you see such a variance in the collector base that all share the same passion. And that was something that I felt, for me personally, was very welcoming. And the community is very open to teach people and share and kind of celebrate the differences as it relates to the entire Porsche brand.
00:31:40
Speaker
you know i love for a reason i love lamborghinis and those cars but you'll notice that the collector community around those cars is definitely different than the porsche collector community and there's an element of difference there that you don't feel with porsche so that's the thing that i really love about porsche
00:32:02
Speaker
And i think you know even though the nine eleven is a sports car and it has this cult following and there's pricing all across the board i think there was kind of this element of hey this is a sports car that can be obtained by.
00:32:17
Speaker
kind of seemingly almost anybody. And I really loved that. So that's why I think Porsche for me is something that is kind of near and dear to my heart. I also just love how simple a 911 is. If you go back to the 70s and then into the 80s and 90s, you kind of see that similar DNA. And when I get into any 911,
00:32:40
Speaker
you know even some of the water cooled stuff like say a 996 or 997 you kind of like know where everything is everything kind of make sense and i think like i like that element of familiarity with the Porsche cars in general.
00:32:56
Speaker
There's a difference to them, but there's also a similarity that runs through them, and I think that that's one of the reasons why Porsche, for me, out of all the cars and out of all this stuff, has resonated so much and why I think I have a passion with it, ultimately. Yeah, they've done a pretty good job of making you always feel at home, no matter which year era model you get into.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, I would totally agree with that. And I think, again, the collector community around Porsche is so varied, right? I've spent a lot of time at Rensport and Luftecault and with that group of facility to the collector community. And it's really cool. You could have the most
00:33:41
Speaker
beat up turd of a 911 and people are still going to celebrate that and kind of share that passion where on the Ferrari side, maybe if you have kind of a beater that's like your daily driver, there might be a hoity-toity kind of snootiness that is associated with that. Don't get me wrong. I love Testarossos and the early 80s Ferraris and have spent some time behind the wheel of some really incredible Ferraris and they're beautiful.
00:34:11
Speaker
But I would say that generally speaking, the community isn't as... The Porsche is kind of... Porsche just as a whole is kind of like the every man's car. Like you could be a weekend warrior with that car. You could race it. You could have a total piece of crap and still find love and passion in that. And that's the thing that I really associated with. Yeah, it's kind of funny, especially here in Arizona, there's a ton of Porsche collectors here.
00:34:39
Speaker
And almost everybody that has a vintage 911 also has a modern Porsche that they drive on a daily basis, whether it's a Macan or a Cayenne or whatever it may be. And there's just so few brands that people collect that way. It's so interesting to me. Yeah, I agree, totally. Does your love for cars and collecting them influence the way you approach collecting vintage watches or vice versa?
00:35:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think the one common thread there is, am I going to drive it? Am I going to love it? And how does it make me feel? And I think that that's definitely something that's a common thread between car collecting and my involvement with car stuff as it relates to watches. And I think the other thing too is watches have become a business for me. It's something that
00:35:27
Speaker
that I do for a living, but the car side of the thing is purely a passion. I would never get into restoring or selling cars. If I'm restoring something or if I'm moving something out of my collection, it's definitely because I loved it and I had that passion there.
00:35:45
Speaker
Element there something that i do professionally and when i get asked you know hey you know can you help me find a Porsche can you sell me this or whatever i basically just refer down like hey here's the people that i work with these guys are great etc etc you know go go ask them but i think the common thread between them is am i driving it do i have a feeling with it and in some cases like taste and preference changes i think that's the beauty of collecting is
00:36:14
Speaker
all of these things yield a perspective that can't really be obtained by any other means outside of owning it and experiencing it so i think that's something that i find really inspiring within the communities that surround you know watches cars whatever is.
00:36:32
Speaker
I think it's something that people kind of understand at that level is you kind of have to feel it, live with it, experience it for yourself to ultimately decide whether that's something that's for you. Or in many cases, my journey with watches has been interesting from the perspective of there's these things that I had to have, I had to own them, I had to acquire them, I had to wear them, and then I get it.
00:36:55
Speaker
And I'm like, man, this really just doesn't suit my life. This doesn't really fit my risk properly. This really isn't checking all those boxes. Or maybe it's something that leads me to find something else.
00:37:07
Speaker
One of the brands I'm really diving heavily into is early Frank Mueller. And there was a watch. It's owned by Mark Cho in Hong Kong, who is a friend and who owns a brand called the Armory. And Mark has this platinum, kerbic, Sontre-style early Frank Mueller jump hour.
00:37:29
Speaker
And the first time i saw that watch i was just i was like wait a minute this is a complicated watch this is a unique layout and this is a front dealer like.
00:37:39
Speaker
You look at Frank Mueller today and you're kind of like, what is this? Is this an Hubelow? Is this a Richard Mille? What's happening here? Okay, I've got this weird DLC, PVD case, or maybe it's something that's made out of sapphire. It's not something that I really would associate to. So it caused me to kind of really dive into Frank Mueller. But I also saw similarity to Patek and Cartier that I had
00:38:05
Speaker
you know kind of brought into my collection i saw those kind of like common threads which really forced me to learn more about from your and you starting with the tech believe in him kind of being the watchmaker that was dealing with these early protect. Complicated watches and you know some really diving deep into his early models because i'm finding so much joy and variance in the movement in the dial configuration in the case shape and all that kind of stuff and if you ask me three years ago when i be buying
00:38:35
Speaker
You're out of my what who why no yeah no it's special stuff for sure and i think.
00:38:43
Speaker
having those problems with watches of getting something and it not being exactly as you hoped is a much better problem to have than doing that with cars. Well, the funny thing about cars and with watches is that, you know, cars are big things and you need a lot of space to store them. So that's been kind of the problem with cars is that, you know, I'll find something and then I'm like, Oh, you know, you can only really drive one car at a time.
00:39:09
Speaker
With watches, you can fit 100 watches into a pretty small box and secure them easily. With cars, you have to have a lot more space to do that. I think that's a fun thing about watches is you can really dive in deep, but you don't need as much real estate to have these things as you would with cars. For me, in specific, I'm
00:39:33
Speaker
sometimes a bit limited just based on the space that I have available for whatever car, you know, shuffling them around where with a watchbox, you can kind of pull it out of the safe in the morning and look at your pieces and pick what inspires you for that day and kind of, you know, change it up quickly and easily versus not so much with the cars.
Diverse Collecting Interests - Native American Bracelets
00:39:51
Speaker
Let's chat about our newest love, which are these native American link bracelets that you and I have gone absolutely nuts for.
00:40:00
Speaker
Okay. So speaking of like, uh, being inspired, I saw your bracelet and I think the first time I saw it, I can't even remember. Maybe we were in New York or something, but we were in an event together and I saw that bracelet and I was like, yo, what is that? Right? That is so cool. What's the, what's the deal? And I'm one of those guys that if I find interest in something or if I see somebody wearing something or driving something, I'm not shy about asking
00:40:27
Speaker
hey what's the deal like what is that right and i'm inspired by a lot of different people and different things especially as it pertains to watches and or cars and things like that but i saw this bracelet on your wrist and i was like that thing is so cool you can just tell that it was vintage you can tell by looking at it that the stones were hand set and that it was like this piece of sterling that was kind of hand hammered and there was that kind of like
00:40:53
Speaker
handmade feel to it. So you're like, oh, it's this old Native American bracelet. And then I think for probably like three months I did a deep dive and I really couldn't find anything. And I learned that there was this gentleman kind of in like the 1930s that had set up this kind of like sterling silver gift shop type of jewelry company that would supply like the Route 66 gift shops or hotels with like this Native American inspired jewelry.
00:41:23
Speaker
They call that kind of the Harvey era of Sterling silver jewelry and I love that kind of like American West kind of stuff I I wouldn't say that I'm like a huge deep fan of like westerns or anything like that although there are a few films and stuff that I think are Interesting and I love that element of like adventure one of the first, you know books I I really read a lot of like Mark Twain and that kind of stuff when I was in my youth and I loved like
00:41:52
Speaker
the Huck Finn stuff and that kind of stuff. So I kind of relate to that element of my childhood and I think it comes in through these kind of more Western Native American inspired stuff. So I saw your bracelet and went on a deep search for them. And then the thing that I'm learning about these bracelets is they kind of have these unique kind of open link kind of concho
00:42:14
Speaker
Type of designs and typically you'll see them with these kind of stones which i also kind of relate to the watch world because i love you know what is that kind of employee uniqueness to the dial based on its creation out of stone so what's roll extra or whatever the thing that's great is you have this watch that is is maybe seemingly kind of ordinary
00:42:38
Speaker
but the uniqueness comes from the material in which the dial is made from. So every single watch typically has its own kind of uniqueness to it. And I thought that that was really cool. So similar to these bracelets, the thing that I've noticed is that the setting of the stones is a little bit different. The stones that they're using can add different pigmentation or grain patterns or whatever. Sometimes it's coral, sometimes it's
00:43:04
Speaker
onyx or turquoise, yours I think is made out of abalone, which I've never seen before outside of yours. Yeah, it's wild. So it's the perfect recipe for me to obsess over because each one of these bracelets is slightly different and each of the configurations that I've been able to find is slightly unique onto itself. And so I've kind of done a deep dive into that Harvey era
00:43:28
Speaker
Native American inspired jewelry with rings and belts and, you know, these link bracelets are so cool. And I think the other thing too that's great about these bracelets is, you know, you could probably collect 50 of them if you could find them, but each one is unique. Even though they're kind of similar in format, the way that the stamping on the sterling is done, the style of the stamping, the stones, they're almost all piece unique.
00:43:56
Speaker
So I think that they're really really cool and that is 100% an inspiration and an obsession that has come from seeing it on your rest and the hours I've spent on eBay and little auction sites and pawn shops and all that kind of stuff trying to find these things has been a bit mind boggling for sure.
00:44:14
Speaker
Well, that's kind of the fun part about it, right? Is that one, you could probably find, like you said, 50 of these and not one of them will be the same. And two, they're really hard to find. And three, when you do find them, they're no more than a hundred to $200. And so as rare as some of them may be, I'm sure, you know, they could obviously go up and up and up and value depending on what it is. But for the most part, most of them are a hundred to 200 bucks. And
00:44:42
Speaker
They're so different and so fun. And yeah, you could collect a bunch of them with different stones. And I've seen all sorts of stones in them. And yeah, they're just so interesting. And I don't know why I bought it when I did. I was just starting to really get interest in this stuff. I mean, I grew up around this stuff in Arizona here, so it wasn't unfamiliar to me. But, you know, sometimes you just see something and it just catches your eye. A hundred percent. And that's the other thing that I think is so fun and cool is like,
00:45:10
Speaker
You know, i'm on these perpetual hunts for things whether it's watches or these bracelets or whatever and these bracelets are like a perfect example because I love the hunt of this stuff as well. I find a lot of fulfillment and inspiration in Searching and then of course learning about this stuff and many times you come up empty-handed But it's that journey in that process which i've really learned to love so much and that I think is a part of
00:45:38
Speaker
you know the brand ethos and kind of what i stand for with watches we can i have this little saying that is coming in weird way become our company tagline it's more than just watches because these these specific subjects are in many cases of vehicle to something totally auxiliary and that's the thing that i love so much it's that journey that adventure and inspiration that natively kind of
00:46:03
Speaker
Comes from developing a passion for something and you know, these bracelets are a great example of that because they're not as of right now not that expensive and they're still you can still kind of find them if you look hard enough and you know, it's it's not like chasing down a JPS Paul Newman or something like that where the price tag of acquisition is crazy.
Philosophy of Collecting: Ice Cream Analogy
00:46:25
Speaker
It's just a couple of hundred bucks, but
00:46:27
Speaker
I get that same film and kind of fix if you want to call it to my addiction to finding these things and you know celebrating it at not really that expensive of a price point.
00:46:39
Speaker
You mentioned on an episode of the blammo podcast with Jeremy Kirkland that collecting is like ice cream and I love ice cream. So this resonated with me on many levels, but it's the idea that when it comes to collecting, there are all these avenues and flavors to choose from and you don't necessarily have to like them all, but it's about appreciating them all. And that is kind of what makes you a great collector or a great dealer in something.
00:47:08
Speaker
Why do you feel that some people have such a hard time just appreciating all the things that are within the area that they collect? Whether they don't have to like it, but to have such a distaste for something, design-wise is one thing, but to appreciate what it is under the surface is the most important part.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think for me, I'm supportive of the collector and the community. And I think we live in a funny time where there's a lot of people that just have an opinion for the sake of having an opinion. And I would say for me, I always appreciate the opinion and in many cases find inspiration in a differing opinion.
00:47:54
Speaker
I think there's these, whether it be the internet keyboard warrior or the person that is heavily opinionated on something, I value the difference in collecting. And like I said, I think I find a commonality to maybe somebody's differing opinion on something. And I can appreciate their opinion and or the variance in that instead of just
00:48:18
Speaker
hate on it for the sake of hating on it, I guess. And to that point, you might love, say, pistachio chocolate chunk ice cream. And I might just hate pistachio. But at the end of the day, we both love ice cream. And I think that's the beauty in this is that we both like ice cream. And it's something that we're both connecting over. So instead of just faulting somebody for having a different taste, why not celebrate that? And I think that that's a big part of Crafts and Tailored and
00:48:49
Speaker
promoting these different things or finding common characters, I guess, you know, I might be a Porsche guy, you might be a Ferrari guy, but we both like cars, right? And we can both appreciate them differently, but also celebrate each other and the passion that we have. And if we really look deep enough, probably inspire each other in some way to develop and kind of perpetuate that passion through each other. And so, um, yeah, that's kind of how I feel about watches.
00:49:16
Speaker
In some cases, I might not fully dig on something, but the fact that that other collector has a differing opinion and is finding passion in it, that's the thing that I really love and find a comfort in, if that makes sense.
00:49:33
Speaker
removing myself from the picture and kind of looking at it maybe from an outsider's perspective. It's kind of crazy. I mean, last year, I flew 450,000 miles, right? And that's a lot of button seat time for watches. It was all for watches. And it's kind of a weird thing too because
00:49:54
Speaker
you know when these great places hong kong or japan or all over europe or wherever and i sometimes pinch myself because i'm kind of on like this weird like work vacation all the time where
00:50:07
Speaker
I'm in these places experiencing these amazing things and I'm also doing this as my job, but it's not really a job at the same time. So I think that that's crazy in the sense that if I were to be a person looking at what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, I think people would probably find that to be a little bit
00:50:31
Speaker
in a weird way, like there's some like mania there, you know, like there's an obsession. There's like this, this kind of craziness to it. And I just I can't help myself. Like that's, that's really the thing that I've dedicated my life to. And for me, I don't, I don't do anything, like just a little bit. Like, you know, I'm not a guy that
00:50:51
Speaker
you know, partakes in any kind of substance. I don't drink or any that kind of stuff. And probably for good reason, because if I did, like the wheels of this bus would just be off and I would be just skidding down a hill, you know? Because like, I don't do anything a little bit. If it's like getting into guitar collecting, I go deep. If it's watches, I go deep. If it's, you know, link turquoise bracelets, I go so freaking deep, right? And so I think this passion is deep. It's real.
00:51:21
Speaker
And i think you know in order to do that i'm constantly inspired by other people that have a different opinion or maybe have a passion that is different than mine and really embrace the difference in that and come support it versus just say oh yeah that's that's crap because i don't personally like that myself.
00:51:39
Speaker
And I think that that's kind of a weird element of the world that we're in where there's a lot of non-embracing of variants or something that isn't boxable. If you can't put it in a box or if you can't explain it in a black and white way, then it's, in some cases, unacceptable. And I think you see a lot of that with the watch world. For sure. All right, Cam, let's wrap it up here with the collectors, Jim Rundown. You know the drill. You can answer these based on any of the items that you collect. Sound good? Totally.
00:52:09
Speaker
All right, what's the one that got away? Okay, so it's actually the first vintage Rolex that really pulled me into the passion. It was a watch that I had found through like this kind of estate jewelry company. I had kind of been on the cusp of turning into a total watch nerd was on the internet and on every form learning
00:52:28
Speaker
And so I told the guy at the shop, I said, hey, next time, whatever vintage Rolex comes in the door, just call me. I want to buy it. It doesn't matter what the model is. Just let me know. And it was a 1967 Meters First Submariner that had been put into a drawer for years and years. The bezel had come off. So that's probably why it was put into the drawer. And then through time, the crown came off. And so basically, it was like the head of the watch.
00:52:57
Speaker
Crystal no basil no crown and so i bought that watch many many years ago for even at the time like no money at all i paid i think like seven hundred and fifty dollars for meters first five five point three.
00:53:11
Speaker
And I had to kind of like in a way restore this watch. I had to find the right bezel insert. I had to learn about what mark variant was correct for the serial range. I had to find the correct crown. I had to find a watchmaker to service the movement to get it running again. And that's really what like pulled me in. There was a point in my career when I started doing this professionally in which I didn't value that watch because I had at the time, I think like eight or nine
00:53:39
Speaker
And I had ones in my collection that were far superior in terms of their condition and all that kind of stuff. And so I had sold that watch. I just sold it because I didn't value it. And if I could find that watch today, I would pay like 3X what it would probably be worth because of that watch starting my passion.
00:53:59
Speaker
pulling me into this thing that now dedicated my life to. And I think the lesson in that was learning to value kind of this, this experience and kind of more of the, the personal connection to these things versus just trying to one up myself all the time in terms of like finding one that's maybe slightly better condition or a rare mark variant or whatever. So that's one that, you know, was, it was a very valuable lesson for me, but that's definitely the one that got away that I kind of,
00:54:29
Speaker
It was it was self inflicted pain if that makes it'll make its way back. I hope so yeah. The on deck circle so what's next for you in collecting maybe something you're hunting or something you're after.
00:54:42
Speaker
I definitely think more Frank Mueller stuff. I'm definitely trying to buy as many catalogs and books. I'm trying to get into the stuff from 1989 into the early part of the 1990s. You see this deviation from the complicated and more handmade, more heritage inspired pieces into the 2000s. I definitely think I'm definitely down the early Frank Mueller rabbit hole.
00:55:11
Speaker
I'm really excited to do more stuff with brands. So we've got a couple of collaborations that are coming up where we're working with seemingly modern watchmakers that have a history and heritage that we're kind of working with them to maybe pay homage and tribute to their past. So I'm looking forward to that.
00:55:30
Speaker
And you know i'm doing more stuff in the watch media space so i'm really excited for watches and wonders this year we're going as like a vip press kind of element this year last year i just literally showed up and kind of just went on the public days and was just blown away by.
00:55:46
Speaker
you know the watchmaking scene in Geneva so i'm really excited about that and i think also. What's next is to continue sharing our adventures and sharing the inside details of what this life is like you know we're gonna keep producing this this kind of short form and potentially some more long-form comment or content rather relating to our travels and.
00:56:09
Speaker
Kind of how we're acquiring these things and I think through that there's also an element of education where I can show how we're authenticating this up how we're you know discovering it and I think people Seemingly really love that and enjoy that type of content Definitely. It's been fun to to follow along especially your trips over in Asia. Yeah, thanks the unobtainable So maybe this is one that's too expensive in a private museum or collection. It's just complete unobtainium
00:56:37
Speaker
Oh man, watch, car, anything? Anything. Give me both if you have it. I think, oh man, I think with watches, maybe some of like the early like a tech stuff, like the minute repeaters, perpetual calendars, like those are a watch that I've come to really appreciate as it relates to fine watchmaking with complications. And some of those watches are just getting to the point of
00:57:05
Speaker
being in a way kind of unobtanium in terms of just their price point. And I think the thing is, if I look at the acquisition of those watches and obviously being in that field and helping clients acquire those pieces and verifying and validating and inspecting and doing all that stuff, I think if I were to
00:57:24
Speaker
throw down on a piece like that there would probably be a ton of other things that i would probably want to buy before that but who knows you know my obsession and my passion for this is. Kind of ever growing and that kind of stuff so i would say probably some of that stuff.
00:57:42
Speaker
As it relates to cars, definitely some of the early Mercedes stuff, more of the coach-built stuff, like the early SLs, I think that those cars are getting to the point of becoming unobtainable. There's not really many barn finds left in that area, so that kind of stuff. I think some of the early Porsche stuff is getting to the point where the value just supersedes the ability to drive it.
00:58:08
Speaker
Enjoy it i think there's like this factor that happens where you're trying to enjoy something but you're like oh my god if i park this next to. Just like who do all are they gonna be my door and i am i gonna be able to enjoy this wall all you know sitting my coffee at the coffee shop are my gonna be like nervous the entire time and not wanna enjoy that so i think that those things are kind of reaching a point for me personally where they.
00:58:35
Speaker
Could potentially become more unobtanium just based on you know price point and or just like the proper factor makes right. Make sense the page one rewrite so if you could collect anything besides watches and cars money is no object what would it be. I think it would be real estate and art.
00:58:57
Speaker
I love mid-century design, I just restored a house in Silver Lake and seeing that process come together and my partner was very much involved in that process and seeing that come together was really amazing. But I like these physical expressions of art that have an element of functionality and I think that real estate is kind of the perfect
00:59:22
Speaker
And I'll be all example of that where you're creating something that is artful and there's an architect that has a vision and maybe that vision and Element is a little bit quirky, but there has to be kind of a functionality to that So I definitely think it would be like, you know those types of of things in art I think is such an interesting thing to see you know somebody like a painter, you know come up with a masterpiece and take that like
00:59:48
Speaker
physical idea or that vision or that mental idea in their head and put that onto a canvas, I definitely think that that's something I can probably go broke doing, is collecting art and doing that for sure. Pretty easy, right? Yeah. How about the goat? Who do you look up to in the collecting world?
01:00:08
Speaker
There's a gentleman who I think has a really interesting and eclectic taste that is that is very tasteful. I think, you know, Ronnie Medavi.
01:00:20
Speaker
his taste is so interesting. I have this little Cushion case, Breguet, that's in white gold. It's from the 70s. Breguet wasn't producing a lot of watches in that time frame, and Ronnie had one. Whenever he would post it, I would 100% like the post. I would save it in my saved post and just kind of go back to that. And I recently found one.
01:00:43
Speaker
I acquired the watch through the David off brothers and that's definitely keeper in the collection but that was inspired by Ronnie and I think like his collection is really interesting because it's so diverse and it's in a weird way kind of unpredictable you know he's not just a rare protect guy he's not just a Cartier guys not just a Rolex guy you kinda has.
01:01:06
Speaker
has all of those things and he buys with a passion and a taste. I think Jeff Hess is also a guy that I would consider to be kind of a goat dude and honored to call him a very near and dear friend. I think his passion and his collecting and in the pieces is definitely apparent and that's something that I've always found very aspirational because
01:01:32
Speaker
he really cares about what is in the collection he really cares about the community and you know he's been such an inspiration for for a long time.
01:01:42
Speaker
I would say Ronnie Mondavi, Jeff Hess, who's now with Sotheby's, Davide Parmigiani. I've gotten to spend some really good time with Davide, and he's also another passionate collector. His collecting is also just so varied. There isn't one specific vein that he pones in on. He has so many things in the collection, and they're all interesting and unique and special.
01:02:07
Speaker
From the simple to the complicated he's definitely a man that I've looked up to over over the past few years for sure The hunt or the ownership which one do you enjoy more? I think now it's probably the hunt I would say the reason for me is You know you get to a certain level where you have kind of acquired you've seen it all especially in my profession and
01:02:30
Speaker
But I think I really enjoy the hunt. And I think the other thing that's cool is for us, if I find something and I buy it for the Craft and Tailored Inventory, I have just as much
01:02:43
Speaker
fun and I received just as much satisfaction selling that to the next guy because once you've acquired these things for yourself, you get to this point where you go, okay, well, what's next? What's next? You're trying to always feed that hungry monkey that is seeming to be jumping on my back all the time.
01:03:02
Speaker
But I think I find value in a lot of satisfaction in helping other guys acquire things for their collections. And also it's fun because in many cases I work with guys to help them, guys and gals now, we're doing a lot with the lady stuff too, with the acquisition of that stuff and seeing their passion ignite, it kind of keeps my flame alive. And I think probably the hunt too, kind of going back to these cool bracelets that we share in Affinity and Passion for,
01:03:32
Speaker
I just love spending time on the internet, researching and learning about the history and that kind of stuff. So I definitely say for me now, at this stage, it's definitely the hunt more so than the ownership because with the hunt, I kind of get to live through the eyes of my clients sometimes and share passions with other people who have the same kind of feeling for this stuff as I do.
Concluding Reflections on a Collector's Journey
01:03:56
Speaker
Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's jean?
01:04:01
Speaker
Definitely. No doubt. Yeah, I had action figures and that kind of stuff that I didn't take out of the boxes and stuff. And I think it was fun, for example, going to the department store or whatever with my mom as a child and spending time in the toy aisle and flipping through the
01:04:23
Speaker
You know at the time it was like the GI Joe little like action figures and finding the one that I didn't have and adding that guy to the collection and then kind of laying my collection out at night going okay I've got this one this one this one and the flipping the box over and figuring out which one I didn't have I think you know that that kind of started from an early from an early age so I think I've definitely you know I was kind of born with that collector's gene for sure and it's definitely perpetuated into other things throughout my life.
01:04:52
Speaker
Love it. Cam, thank you so much for joining me today. Always good to catch up with you, and love that we are now on a new collecting journey together with these native bracelets, and should be fun to see where that goes. 100%. Thanks for having me. It's been an honor and a pleasure, and can't wait to share my latest finds with you. Appreciate it, man. Take care. All right.
01:05:18
Speaker
Alright, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to collector's gene radio