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#236 Part 3 Pottery, Passion and Profit w/ Tim See
47 Plays2 years ago
This podcast episode delves into the intriguing journey of Tim See, a potter who turned his hobby into a thriving career. It covers his transition from creating cheap pottery to high-end pieces, his take on the evolution of selling pottery, and the significance of constant growth and individuality in the world of pottery. Tim also discusses how he uses social media platforms to connect with his clientele and maintain a balance between being an artist and a business person. The podcast features key segments with Tim See's insights on various aspects of pottery and concludes with a discussion on how he leverages online sales and community support to drive his business. Learn more about Tim by checking out his instagram @timseeclay
Top 3 value bombs:
1. The Power of Passion: Tim See journey illustrates how dedication and passion can turn a hobby into a successful career. His transition from making inexpensive pottery to creating high-end pieces, despite the risks, demonstrates the power of passion over easy profit.
2. Embracing the Digital Age: Tim's ability to adapt and leverage the power of social media and online platforms for his pottery business highlights the significance of embracing digital transformation in the arts. It's a testament to how artists can connect with their audience and manage their businesses in a world dominated by screens.
3. The Importance of Growth and Individuality: The episode emphasizes the significance of continuous growth, self-criticism, and maintaining individuality in the world of pottery. It underscores the importance of staying true to your artistry and being open to learning and evolving, regardless of the market trends.
and so much more
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Transcript
Introduction to Artistic Individuality
00:00:00
Speaker
I know it works for me and my personality and stuff, but that isn't something that I could stamp and then stick on somebody else because we're all really different. Hey, real quick before we get started, if you would like to find your own theme for your pottery so your voice really stands out and you're not getting bored with making the same thing over and over again,
00:00:23
Speaker
I put together 53 themes for you guys and it's completely free. All you have to do to get it is just go to shapingyourpottery.com forward slash 53 themes. That's shapingyourpottery.com forward slash 53 themes.
Podcast Overview and Upcoming Interview
00:00:40
Speaker
If you love pottery and want to take your skills to the next level, you're in the right place. Find your own pottery style right here on Shaping Your Pottery with Nick Torres. Let's get started.
00:00:54
Speaker
What is up, Shaping Nation? This is Nick Torres here, and this is the final part of my three-part series, my interview with Timothy. In this episode, in this part, you will learn all about selling your pottery and how to find your own unique voice with your pottery. I hope you guys enjoy this final part, and I'll see you guys in the next
Timothy's Pottery Journey
00:01:13
Speaker
one. So, let's talk about selling your pottery. Can you tell me about the moment when you decided to go full-time as a potter?
00:01:22
Speaker
I, I sort of, when I was, when I was at SU, I got a grant shorter, shorter, long, longer, short story. I was at Peter's Valley and my, just my girlfriend at the time, first night Brenda, who I married later, we were in a tent in the Delaware water gap because there's no, there was, we couldn't afford to stay at Peter's Valley. And we were sitting in the camp or in the tent and you know, you got a little, little tent fly, right?
00:01:49
Speaker
For some reason we attracted lightning bugs and we had about a thousand lightning bugs underneath the tent fly just blinking. You know, we were sitting there talking about the workshop because she was, she was just going on vacation. I was there to take a workshop with Bennett Bean. And I was telling her about, you know, the things that Bennett had said and the things that were discussed in the workshop. And she goes, is this what, is this going to be your job? Like, is this the career? And I'm like, you know,
Balancing Creation and Commerce
00:02:17
Speaker
I don't know. She goes, well.
00:02:19
Speaker
I'd like to know because I want to support everything that you do, but I want to know that you are in for it. Like that is going to be the thing. And you know, that's the lightning bugs. You're like, yes, you know, I want it to be my thing. And that was the point. Like that was the, I mean, I could probably find the date, but like that was the point at which I decided this is going to be my career prior to that. It was something that I wanted to do. It was something that I focused on, but I hadn't made that decision. And at that point, all of my time was spent.
00:02:48
Speaker
I mean, when I say all my time, like prior to that conversation, I used to break into the studio that OCC, the community college I was in. I jimmied one of the windows so that it couldn't be locked. It felt like it was locked. It looked like it was locked, but I could open it up. And I would be putting, you know, regular college time, you know, I'd go during open studio and do six hours during the day. I'd go work at Friendly's, which was an ice cream place.
00:03:14
Speaker
And then I'd come back after work and I would break in and I would work until, you know, four or five o'clock in the morning, sleep for a few hours and then do it all over again. And eventually the security guards got to know my car and got to know who I was. And so just go through the freaking door because we know you're here, you know, the lights are on and we just need to know that you're here so that if something does happen, we know to get you out.
00:03:38
Speaker
So then Mike was the guy's name at the counter there. I was, you know, just coming in. Hi, Mike. And as long as I didn't leave it a mess and he, nobody could get like the issue they had was me making or stealing something or, you know, making a mess. They were going to get nothing was happening. They were fine. Just let me in. And that was that carried throughout my college career. You know, I was, I used to sleep under my desk at SU. There was, there were like a table that had like a little cubby. I used to sleep under there so I could get up.
00:04:03
Speaker
before they would normally unlock the building and stay there until after they locked the building so that I could get more shit done. Because I really liked making pots. That was my thing. I love making pots. And I don't know how we got to that point, but it's like, that's what I wanted to do. Oh, because we talked about the thing. So when I had decided that that's going to be my career, rather than just making pots, I had to decide on how I'm going to make pots a career.
00:04:33
Speaker
And that's where it kind of started as, you know, signing up for doing outdoor shows and festivals and treating it like I need to do more than make these pots. I also need to sell them and, you know, taking it seriously and not just like, well, I'm just going to set up a booth somewhere and people will buy my pots. Cause I think it's a different mindset between having that and then like, no, like this is going to be the way I support myself for the rest of my life.
00:05:00
Speaker
I love that. So earlier you mentioned you have a couple of different Tim's in your head. Tim that sells, Tim that makes, Tim that markets. How can someone balance the selling person that they want to be to sell their pottery and also the maker that they want to be?
00:05:22
Speaker
I don't know. I wish I could give you a good answer for that because I don't, you know, I've had this kind of conversation with other people, mentor, mentee kind of situations. And I don't know if there's a right answer. I know what works for me and my personality and stuff, but that isn't something that I could stamp and then stick on somebody else because we're all, we're all really different. Our motivations, what are expectations, expectations of ourself and just.
00:05:51
Speaker
what we're capable of. I have different motivational possibilities for myself than other people have. We're all so different, but when it comes to things like that division, I don't know if everybody can compartmentalize. There's a lot of stress and fear that comes into making and selling pots as part of your career, because if
00:06:19
Speaker
You know, it's the hardest thing. And I know there are books and I've read the books and stuff and it never hit home the same way as like living it does. Whereas if I'm sitting in the studio and it's like, I've got a car payment, a mortgage payment. I need to buy materials. I need to pay for eight shows that, you know, are six months away, but I need to pay for them ahead of time because they want their money, you know, in
00:06:44
Speaker
February, when the show's not until June or July, I've got to put all that money up front. It's really stressful to say, okay, I'm going to change my work completely, not knowing if anybody's going to buy it.
00:06:56
Speaker
were, when I started to make that separation between Maker and Sellerton, it wasn't out of financial freedom. I had, you know, I was, yeah, I had just done the Smithsonian show, but like I said, I didn't make, you know, there were people that, there were jewelers that made $150,000 that week. And I did not do that. You know, I didn't have that kind of like, I'm going to go buy a new truck and everything. Yay. No, it was like, I did all right. It was okay.
00:07:22
Speaker
So coming back from that, it's like, you know, why am I making pots? You know, like, why am I doing this? Is it to squeak by and like barely make it, or am I trying to, you know, enjoy myself? And it is really scary to say, I don't care about the money because you have to care about the money, but Maker Tim couldn't. Maker Tim couldn't be in the studio and make the amount of pots and the kind of pots that were going to, I guess, make a difference in his career.
00:07:50
Speaker
while still participating with Sellerton. Like they couldn't do the same thing. Cause Sellerton was like, no, you need to make this because you know what's going to sell and you know, these three people that come to every single show are going to buy them.
00:08:04
Speaker
And you know that if you make that, nobody has ever bought that. You can't keep making those dumb things because nobody's buying them. And Maker Tim is like, I want to make those. So it's an amount of fear. It's an amount of like, I don't know, is it ego? Something has to happen or there has to be like some switch that you can click that say, I care enough about myself and my work.
00:08:31
Speaker
that I don't want to or I don't need to care about the money part. And that isn't something I can like help somebody with, because it's too scary to, and there's too much to go, too much can go wrong. If I say, Nick, stop making, what's the thing that you make the most money on? Right now, I am not currently making any money on my pottery.
00:08:59
Speaker
But let's say it was mugs. Let's say Nick Nick can sell 50 mugs every time he does a show and he relies upon that and they're a simple mug nobody's going to like Invite Nick to be a presenter Ed and Sika because of the mugs that he makes they're just they're money They're you know, you're gonna sell every mug that you make But it's not gonna further your career making those mugs. You're gonna make money. You're not gonna go further and
00:09:24
Speaker
if I told you stop making those mugs and make things X, Y, and Z that you already love making, and I'm gonna swear, becomes a swear. Go ahead, let him rip. You suck up your career because of something I said like that, like you didn't make those mugs, you didn't sell X, Y, Z, now you can't make your truck payment, you get kicked out of your house, you're having to go live with your mom, and all that stuff happens because I said that, I would feel horrible. So it's not like something I feel comfortable saying, hey guys,
00:09:52
Speaker
You don't need to make that because everybody has a different threshold of like risk and pain and, and, and stuff. Like when I made that decision, my wife was it.
00:10:06
Speaker
I think she had gotten a full time teaching position. So we had a little bit of financial freedom. We did not have enough financial freedom. We were eating ramen and like Kraft macaroni and cheese every night and maybe some hot dogs. But it
Sales Strategies and Customer Relationships
00:10:20
Speaker
wasn't like we were barely squeaking, squeaking by. So every time I did a show, it was like if I didn't make X amount of money,
00:10:28
Speaker
you know we were going to have less or i could invest less than to the future so to make a decision like i don't care what sells is really scary and it was rewardable the first year that i decided i was going to maker tim was just going to make whatever he wanted he was really productive which meant
00:10:48
Speaker
You know, he had a lot of inventory, which meant he could do more things, but they weren't always the most profitable things. It was a lot of time spent doing shows that, you know, it was like, eh, I could have, I could have had a regular job and done better for this timeframe than being a potter. And then it came to one conversation with a glassblower friend. He.
00:11:10
Speaker
he was in my booth and he was talking about a lady that wanted to have him make hummingbird feeders and he's a very funny very funny individual and he's he time talked a little bit like Jack Nicholas he's telling the story about this lady to the man by the time you catch clean and make a sandwich hummingbirds aren't worth it you shouldn't feed them
00:11:33
Speaker
It was really funny. He's like, well, why do you make the flowers that you do? He's like, because people need cheap things to buy when you're in the booth. They don't want to spend $800 on a vase, so they're going to spend 20 bucks on a flower. I said, have you ever gone to a show and not had flowers? He said, no, because I want people to be able to buy the cheap things. I said, what happens if you didn't have any cheap things in the booth? Would they buy a more expensive thing? He goes,
00:11:59
Speaker
I don't think so. That's okay. Next year, starting because we did a lot of the same shows, the first show of the year that we're both going to be at was Allentown in Buffalo. I said, let's start at Allentown. Don't bring anything under 50 bucks. And at that time, it was like probably 2007. And a $50 piece was an expensive piece then. You know, that was a higher end piece.
00:12:19
Speaker
So he did that one show and he didn't do well and he attributed it to not having the little flowers. I, on the other hand, I didn't have any $50 pieces. I had, I had $50 an hour and I did all right. It wasn't a great, it wasn't a great show, but I stuck it out for the rest of the year and learning about people. And it was, it wasn't just about having the under $50 pieces, but it was learning about how to sell and market. And that year I put a lot of time into.
00:12:49
Speaker
on learning about marketing and learning about selling and all that. And having no $50 or no under $50 pieces meant the people that really did care about me and my business, not just average buyers, because there's there's lots of different ways to sell work. And the Glassblower friend, he was working on getting pieces into the most amount of people's hands as possible. And that the change for me was that kind of conversation where it's like, I don't
00:13:16
Speaker
I'm not making anything that anybody needs. Nobody needs a ceramic mug. I can't feel bad about charging a lot for something and excluding part of the market because of price. So if I make a $100 mug, there are a lot of people that can't afford a $100 mug. At the time, I couldn't afford a $100 mug.
00:13:38
Speaker
but there were people that could and would because they cared about seeing me succeed. And if I had a $50 mug, they would have bought a $50 mug. If I had a $25 mug, they would have bought a $25 mug. But because I had, I think at that time it was like a $75 mug, they were buying a $75 mug to support me. And it wasn't clear then, it's a lot clearer now that the people that were buying the work
00:14:07
Speaker
that I needed to buy the work were the ones that really cared about me and didn't care so much about the pot. And that's, again, one of those really scary things to have to put into practice is making work that nobody needs, that's priced at a point where not everybody can afford, but
00:14:28
Speaker
the people that care about you, care about your business, care about your family, care about their community, because a potter isn't getting rich making pots. They're squeaking by, they're doing it, but when somebody buys one of those pots, like when somebody bought a mug of mine, they know directly that it's keeping me afloat. And when somebody was buying a $20 soap dish, they didn't care about me.
00:14:55
Speaker
They were buying it because it's something cheap. They could give it as a gift, blah, blah, blah. They bought a thing. They could show their friends, I'll get bought a thing at the Grand Festival. But they weren't supporting me doing that. It was for them. And when I got to that point where I was making more expensive elaborate work, it became less about them and more about me. And that was a big change. And it all came to stupid conversation about hummingbirds and a bird feeder. That, you know, you know, it's those, it's those little things that, you know, end up making big
00:15:23
Speaker
big changes that you don't know, you've never noticed at the time, but it's, you know, later reflection and things like this that bring that kind of stuff up. So yeah, you did, you answered it perfectly. So before I get into the last section of our interview here, what helped you the most with being able to sell your product?
00:15:43
Speaker
People buying it, I think was one of the questions we had earlier. So it's gone through stages, like doing shows, craft shows and stuff is a completely different place than I am now. Doing craft shows, I was able to, well,
00:16:00
Speaker
Not a timeout, but like a little side venture here. Doing craft shows is hard. It's not an easy way to make a living. And it's a lot of personal investment, like emotional investment to do a weekend at a craft show.
00:16:20
Speaker
about two three two three years into it and i had a lot of conversations but there was a slow time i never just sat in my booth and just you know wondered why am i doing this i would talk to other artists and there were a few carmel the gourd guys or what in the show circuit it was the gourd guys i'm not i don't think they do it anymore but they were from
00:16:40
Speaker
Louisiana and they were great. They, they loved my wife and I, you know, we spent a few, a few shows, you know, hanging out with them, going to dinner afterwards. And, you know, they were at the end of their career and they did not mind talking everything that they could about, you know, how they got to where they are, the successes that they had and having conversations like that and being open to those kinds of conversations, you know, were
00:17:06
Speaker
important to kind of building how I sold stuff. So early sales, you know, learning how to market, learning how to talk to people. There was, there was a point where I learned something called neural linguistic programming, which is super shady to say out loud, because as soon as people understand what that means and how it can be utilized, they become very defensive.
00:17:29
Speaker
But I don't do it anymore. I do talk about it because I think it's an important sales strategy and tactic, but it can, it can be abusive. It can be abusable, abusable. I like that word. It can be abusable that I got to the point where I can almost sell anything to anybody. And when I was training my, you know, I had students that would come to one of the local shows and I would teach them how to sell work to people so that they could then do that, you know, the next year or whatever.
00:17:55
Speaker
And, you know, one of the exercises was point somebody out in the crowd, anybody, like they can be 10 booths down, pick out anybody and we will get them to buy pots in the booth and then let them pick out the pots. And.
00:18:10
Speaker
you know, between body language stuff, eye contact, verbiage, words, all that kind of stuff adds up to getting people to buy pots. And I got really good at it to the point where they could pick somebody out, 10 booths down, I could get them in the booth and buy every pot that the little students that were watching wanted them to buy, and I would do it every single time.
00:18:33
Speaker
They were, they thought at first it was like a magic trick that I had like a plant that these people, they knew they, I knew them or something. And eventually they were like, holy shit. Like, no, you can talk anybody into anything. And at that point I stopped doing that and I kind of stopped doing shows because it felt gross. But, but you, but when it comes to like your career, like, like I, if I can do this and I do it.
00:18:59
Speaker
then people are going to buy work and I can continue doing the things I want to do. But it also becomes sort of gross in that you don't know what these people's life situation or if they should be buying, you know, an expensive vase or whatever.
00:19:14
Speaker
So I kind of stopped doing shows and I started doing more online sales. Also, weather sucks.
Transition to Online Sales
00:19:20
Speaker
So there's two parts. There's like slimy salesperson Tim and then there's like weather, like I hate weather. And I think that my last straw was at a show and I'm pretty much held my tent the whole time and going, why is this happening? Why am I doing this? And after two days of that, one of the local people that collect my work and everything, they came back with like a six pack of Homebrew and they're like,
00:19:43
Speaker
We'll hold the tent for a couple hours, like have a drink. You know, it was the end of the show. Nobody was there anymore. And I have a drink and we'll hold the tent and we'll help you sit down. Thank you very much. And you know, on the drive home, it was a three hour drive and, you know, talking about my life. It's like, this is insane. Like that was not the way I want to spend the rest of my career holding onto tents and worrying about tens of thousands of dollars of shit blown away. So.
00:20:09
Speaker
About that same time periscope stuff was happening and I was doing I think I did one
00:20:16
Speaker
one or two sales online before that happened. And it was kind of through Periscope. People that had seen me make the pots from start to finish were like, I want to buy one of those pots. But they lived in another country or another state. So it's not like they could come to a show and buy these pots. I'm like, okay, we'll come up with a vine. And I just did like on Facebook, they joined my business page and I just threw up like 40 pots. And I think the first time 15 of them sold.
00:20:42
Speaker
But they were really happy. And then the next time, the next firing, I did it again. And it kind of grew to now what it is. And that's been, I think we figured out it's been seven years of doing that. And now every pot that I make, I sell online, besides the stuff that I do traveling to workshops. But I sell all online through two sales. One sale is a beginner sale.
00:21:06
Speaker
It's become crazy enough that they actually have a sale to train people how to buy in the big sale. So the beginner sale is for people that have never bought a piece before. They can buy one piece, which means I can prepack them all. So I don't have to like, after they bought it, I don't have to do all that stuff. It's all repacked up and they buy a piece.
00:21:26
Speaker
And I can ship it out. So they get practice on how to get to the big sale. On the big sale, pretty much all the work goes up for grabs at the same time, 7pm on a Monday. It all goes up at the same time and everything sells in the first 15-20 minutes. And it's all done. Like a year's worth of work is gone and then it takes me about two weeks to a month to ship everything.
00:21:48
Speaker
And that's been the primary where I've sold stuff for the last three to four years, four years, four years. And it's a, it's again, a scary, crazy way of doing it. And it's, I do it all the wrong way as well. Nobody pays for any of my stuff. Like, so I'll, I'll take my mug. I will, I will, or whatever they bought, I pack it, I ship it to them unpaid for. And then they send back a check.
00:22:15
Speaker
And they, you know, because there's no bank fees and, you know, part of being, you know, pottery business 10 guy is reducing cost. So, you know, when you got all these credit card fees and bank fees and all that kind of stuff that are attributed with credit cards and PayPal and Etsy.
00:22:31
Speaker
It was like, they're taking a big chunk of money and they're not doing anything for my business. They're not helping me. They're a middleman for my business. And I said, well, what are some ways we can rule that out? I don't think it's okay to send that much cash. So I said, well, checks, they're free, right? So if I send them an envelope with the stamp on it and my address, it's really hard for them to screw up. All they have to do is put the check in and the invoice and mail it back.
00:22:56
Speaker
And we've done that for a long time now. And when I talk to my accountant about it, and then my tax person, they go, don't do that. And I said, nope, this is what I do. But that's wrong. I said, I know it's wrong. Everything that I do is wrong. All the online content that I could charge for, that people want me to charge for, I do for free. All the YouTube stuff that I could have monetized a lot earlier, I didn't. You know, there's all these things that I did the wrong way. But in the end,
00:23:25
Speaker
Even my wife, she goes, why are you spending so much time on Facebook? And I'm like, because I could help people. When I left college, because I didn't have a great college experience. When I left college, one of my things that I said to myself was, I want to make sure that nobody has to pay for a college education to turn pottery into a career.
00:23:43
Speaker
So part of that was making sure people can make pots and succeed and that kind of stuff. So when I joined like Facebook pottery groups, it was like, that was a great method to get to a lot of people information for free. And I've continued that, which again, business Tim says, that's dumb, Tim, you could charge for this. I could, if I wanted to, I could say, all my content that I sell online is going to be for this amount.
00:24:10
Speaker
But that's not, that's not who I am. It's not what I want to do. It's not my, it's not what business Tim, you know, feels is right. Business Tim ends up going, okay, put everything out ahead of time. Like do everything for free. Interview, right? You're not paying me for the interview. I'm doing it because why not, right?
00:24:27
Speaker
I do all the Facebook stuff. If people had a question, they can write to me anytime and I answer it almost immediately. Sometimes I miss things, like it gets buried and I miss it, but it's almost 100% instant access to anything that I can help with. And what that has done is built a community that wants to help me.
00:24:47
Speaker
So if I have a sale, you know, I don't, I don't have to promote it. I, I can put it out there that it's going to exist. And other people that I have helped throughout the year or throughout their whole career will say, you know what? You know, Tim has done all this for me for free. They don't ask, you know, I don't tell them to do it. They do it because they want to support the things that I do. And with the sale, nobody needs a $500 mug. Like that's not a thing that anybody needs.
00:25:15
Speaker
And people continue to buy these, these things because of the amount of support that I've given them for nothing with no strings attached. You know, if somebody says, you know, people call me like.
00:25:25
Speaker
Is this Tim? Like, yeah. Like, can you help me with my account? I'm like, sure. Like, there's no like, I'm going to charge you $100 an hour for this. Or, you know, I'm not making a video so that I can sell whatever and I'm going to get a kickback from the company. I'm doing it just because I want people to be successful. I want them to have the same opportunities that I have with zero cost.
00:25:46
Speaker
Which again, it's not good business. So I make it up with selling pots, which is the, I think the weirdest way I could think of doing this as a career. By selling pots for a cost that nobody needs to have, that nobody really should be buying, but it's a way for them to
00:26:05
Speaker
Support me and the things that I want to do in a way that gets them an artifact of the transaction So, you know, like like you like I don't know how much money could I have saved?
00:26:17
Speaker
people in all the things that I've done, right? Like, if I was looking at it that way, I'm probably the short end of the stick, but I'm not looking at it that way. It's when people can compensate me for anything that I've helped them with, they do. And it's worked out enough that I'm happy in what I get to make in the studio. And I'm happy enough with the things, the income that I make, that I'm not stressed out about my mortgage payment. I'm not stressed out about stuff. It's, it's comfortable. I'm, I'm,
00:26:45
Speaker
I'm happy enough with what I'm doing, and I think that's the important part of all of
Continuous Growth in Pottery
00:26:50
Speaker
it. And again, right from the beginning, is doing things in the studio that make you happy.
00:26:56
Speaker
I actually like really really like the way you do that so like You give everything away for free and you just ask them support me out and I think that is I think in my opinion I think that is the best way to do it because you're giving them free tips you're giving them all this advice and Then they just help you out when it when it the time comes, but I care It is scary, but it is scary, but I think that is the best in my opinion that is the best way to to do it because I've also like
00:27:26
Speaker
I like learning about marketing and they always say to give everything away for free and then you won't have to worry about the paycheck later because it will come. I read a bit like the opposite like don't do anything for free like charge, charge, charge, charge, charge. And I'm like, I don't want to. Yeah. A lot of the things that I read and I learned, I've taken courses and stuff like give
00:27:50
Speaker
all your information away for free like everything in your head give it away for free if you have like a tip give it away for free because then it's going to pay in the long run well i'm glad that there are other people besides me saying that yes and i i love that you're doing that so as we're heading into our last section here let's talk about discovering your pottery voice what sorry
00:28:15
Speaker
you on your website you said it's important for artists to be in a constant state of evolution can you tell me more about this so that was partly from the first solo show evolution and division where it was you know a constant state of growth because as you
00:28:36
Speaker
As my work has aged, and in my process has aged, and I've aged, that there are things that I'm not capable of anymore, or things that I don't want to do. Maker Tim just doesn't feel like doing anymore.
00:28:49
Speaker
And if I'm not continually going forward in some aspect of my work, then my pool of what I'm capable of or what I'm doing becomes smaller and smaller and smaller. So we think about it like a ruler and the end of the ruler is always going to be moving away. Like this is going to be stuff that is not going to happen anymore. If I don't keep adding to the front of that ruler, then I'm going to eventually run out of ruler.
00:29:14
Speaker
So I'm always trying to add something to the front of that so that I'm continuing to grow. And if I'm not excited about making work, I don't make work. Or I'm not going to make as much of it. So I'm, you know, that growth continues to, to keep me in the studio. You know, like there's, I could sit down and make, I don't want to say crappy pots, but a crappy pot. I could sit down and make crappy pots all day, really easy over and over and over.
00:29:41
Speaker
But my ruler will get really, really short. And the things that I can do and the opportunities that I have will become really, really small as well. So if I continue to grow and make that part that I'm capable of or want to do bigger and bigger, then I'm still excited to be in the studio and everything. And I don't know if it's like a teachable or transferable thing, but that's kind of the way I've dealt with that.
00:30:12
Speaker
I love that shape nation. Instead of trying to be the ruler, be the measuring tape. So you are constantly growing and getting better at your pottery. What is something that potters should be focused on if they want to find their own style with their potter? Getting away from that simple solution. So, you know, if we were to, if I gave you a assignment like on a piece of paper, like draw a mug or, you know, or draw a motif for a mug. Let's say, let's say you drew a leaf.
00:30:40
Speaker
Or no, no, let's go back. Let's go back once. You drew a dragonfly. Like, why? Like, how can you make that dragonfly more yours? Can you use source material that's an actual dragonfly in your world? You know, things like that so that it's not, it's no longer a motif, but it's part of your, part of your world.
00:31:00
Speaker
I've had past students that never get to that point or never want to get to that point. And nobody has to get there. It's not like an ends. But if you wanted to, even you asking that question, how do you develop that to be your own? Isn't the end all? Some people don't care or don't want to.
00:31:22
Speaker
And I worry sometimes that asking those questions or promoting it almost alienates or discourages people that just want to make simple pots. I know that's not what we're talking about. I know like, you know, a simple plain white mug isn't our goal, isn't your goal, isn't my goal. And I guess as an audience, I don't know if you have people in your audience that are relating like, well, I just want to make simple white mugs. Like that's okay. Like there's nothing wrong with.
00:31:51
Speaker
not going further and even using the word knock, like that negative kind of tinge to those sorts of words, even taints it. So like I'm doing a bad job of that as well, but like.
00:32:04
Speaker
If growth is the goal, then you have to do exercises and practices in the studio that are always creating growth. If the growth wants to be maybe more mugs at a time or more consistency in those mugs, those are all different aspects to it, but it's still growth. The growth that we're talking about being maybe more individual or, you know, growth in terms of the style of the work,
00:32:26
Speaker
then you got to do exercises in those. But I guess I need to make sure that there's a clarity and that one isn't better than another. It's just another way to keep ourselves excited about being in the studio.
00:32:38
Speaker
So I definitely agree. Okay. So yeah, doing, doing the things like, you know, being self-critical or finding somebody that you trust enough to listen to their criticisms about the work and then listening to them. Cause you know, like one of the frustrating things is for me is that when somebody goes, Oh, well, Tim, what would you do about this? And I go, this is exactly what you need to do. And they go, I don't want to do that.
00:33:02
Speaker
Can I swear? Can I swear? Well fuck you! They're gonna ask me these kind of things like, do them! Don't make me like put all this time and energy and emotional effort into like...
00:33:11
Speaker
giving you the path and then go, I don't want to do that path. Then do it yourself. Don't ask me for it. But those kind of exercises, whether it's drawing, whether it's making lots of stuff and working through it, whether it's doing the opposites, whether you're looking for source information in your world, all those things you got to do, they don't just happen. You have to be actively doing them for them to work. Yes, I definitely agree with that. Shaping Nation,
00:33:40
Speaker
You have to know what you want to do. If you want to make some simple pottery, you can make simple pottery. If you want to make more complex pottery, you can make complex pottery. At the same time, you also have to be critical about yourself and your work to improve it further. I love that. So as we are coming to a close here, what is one thing you want to hammer home with my audience today?
00:34:00
Speaker
But we didn't get into the one thing that I think is, is it? Well, like we, we, we have an in cover part. So it's like, it's, we're ending with something that we haven't started with that everybody has, I don't know what we would call like a hand, but let's say we're just drawing a figure, right? Everybody's going to draw a figure differently. And we've been taught through comments that people have made about our figures right from middle school or elementary school to, I don't know, be shy, selfish almost in that.
00:34:29
Speaker
We are all capable of drawing a human. We're all capable of drawing everything. Whether or not we believe in that is the difference and whether or not we share that. So if you, you know, I think the worst thing an artist has the capability of doing is not putting themselves into the work. And because it's selfish, it's greedy, it's like everybody can make
00:34:54
Speaker
everything. It's in our hands. If you asked me to draw a dog, I could draw you a dog. It's in my hands to draw a dog.
00:35:01
Speaker
I may not be confident in my dog drawing, but nobody else is going to produce that dog that I, like I did with my hands. So if everybody else is just using a stamp or a decal or not using their own hands to make their own images, we're getting robbed of what they were capable of. And most of that comes from fear and disappointment or being shy or being greedy. I don't know if it's completely greedy. I say that as kind of like, but you
Finding the Right Audience
00:35:31
Speaker
know,
00:35:31
Speaker
Having people have the confidence to make their own marks in the way that they make them rather than the way they think they should be made or the way somebody else makes them is like the biggest thing that I would want out of any kind of conversation that I have about, you know, growing their work and that, you know,
00:35:51
Speaker
The world would be pretty boring if we all did the things that somebody else thought was important or, you know, what somebody else's hands had done. And if I had stuck with that kind of fear, I wouldn't be doing the work that I'm doing now. Eventually, it's just I can't care if it's the best robot that somebody could paint or the best flower somebody could paint. It's my hands making my flowers for my yard.
00:36:15
Speaker
And if I don't do it, it's never going to happen. Getting to that point where you're not afraid of having it happen any way that it does happen is the probably the most important thing I think I could say is that you got to do it. You got to believe in it enough that you can share it with other people. And if the people don't like it,
00:36:35
Speaker
Can I swear again? Fuck them. Fuck them. If the people that see the things that come out of your hands don't like it, they're not your people. They're not. Find different people that do like it because without you making it, it wouldn't happen. Definitely. That was some excellent parting words advice. Tim, it was really great chatting with you today. Where can my artist go and learn more about you? What?
00:36:58
Speaker
I don't know, Facebook. It was like some leaky boos maybe we could put there. So I guess there's a couple of things I do. I do post stuff on Instagram. I have a business page, Tim C ceramics on Facebook. The sale group is on Facebook. The beginner, like people that are doing beginner pottery stuff. I have a throwing group on Facebook. And if people just need to contact me, like you can email me or Facebook message me. I get back to people pretty quick.
00:37:29
Speaker
It was, it hasn't been updated in a long time as you saw. Yeah, it was, it was really great chat with today.
Closing Remarks and Promotion
00:37:36
Speaker
I definitely learned a lot. Thank you so much for coming on.