Transcript
Speaker: Hey pal.
Speaker: We're live, pals.
Speaker: Welcome to the latest episode of Hey Pal, I'm Coachable.
Speaker: And I was about to say, oh, it's time for that weekly rotation into your podcast ear holes.
Speaker: But unfortunately, well, nobody told me life was going to be this way.
Speaker: Clap, clap, clap, clap.
Speaker: Unfortunately, it's just been a few weeks since our last episode, just to fill you in on the gaps between them, because I'm very appreciative for all the messages that have come out saying, hey, what's going on?
Speaker: They might have even said, hey, pal.
Speaker: Um, what's happening?
Speaker: Where's the latest episode?
Speaker: Why aren't you giving me the episode now?
Speaker: Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker: But, uh, and no, Jimmy Hartness didn't break the podcast, even though he swore like a drunken sailor, but that's our Jimmy.
Speaker: Um, no, uh, in all seriousness, just to straighten up, um, being a bit of a busy time with the real work, not the side hustle, this one here, as much as I appreciate it.
Speaker: put a lot of effort into my side hustle.
Speaker: I had to look at my front hustle for a little bit, which sounds like a phrase that would actually get me in trouble for saying that out loud.
Speaker: But yeah, my front hustle.
Speaker: Unfortunately, in the last couple of weeks here in the northern suburbs of Perth, which is where this little ditty of a podcast emanates from, unfortunately, we did deal with the Meridjan up fire.
Speaker: So unfortunately, unfortunately, I keep saying unfortunately, which is just not great.
Speaker: But
Speaker: Yeah, there was a lot of drama in terms of having to handle that from a work perspective.
Speaker: Hay Power doesn't pay the bills.
Speaker: And also from a personal point of view, we were very close to them.
Speaker: We were fortunate enough that...
Speaker: We weren't ever, I guess, in the evacuation zone and knowing the stories of many people affected by the fires here has been truly horrifying in some ways, some of the images and some of the tales as well.
Speaker: So that did take the focus for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker: So I do apologize.
Speaker: I do try and get this out to you guys into that weekly podcast, Earhole Rotation, but just had to take priority with the real life business going on.
Speaker: That being said, well, this episode has been a little while in the making because we did record it a little bit ago, but it's a really fascinating chat here with James O'Donoghue.
Speaker: He is a photographer who is really taking the East Coast by storm, you know, NBL1, NBL, WNBL.
Speaker: The guy's just getting his photos everywhere, and when you have a look at his socials at the end of this episode, or if, you know, you're on the train or the bus or, you know,
Speaker: Whatnot at the moment you can sort of multitask and scroll through the Instagram as well as you're listening to these dulcet tones You can see why yeah, just an absolute ripper photographer ripping bloke We talked briefly about the fact that we did know each other from a previous life as well in a previous quote-unquote real-life shoot job, but Yeah, it's just a wonderful chat and wonderful insight into how important the role of the sports photographer is because you know a lot of what we see
Speaker: I mean, that's quite exactly what it says on the packaging.
Speaker: It's what we see.
Speaker: But you think back to your favorite moments as a fan or even as an athlete as well, which we'll touch on, and just to have that lasting visual.
Speaker: It just makes those memories live longer and stand the test of time.
Speaker: So enough of that.
Speaker: Enough jibber-jabber from this guy.
Speaker: So without further ado, here is our interview with James O'Donoghue.
Speaker: This week's guest is a pleasant surprise for me, not because I didn't know that I'd organized this guest, but when I saw his face a few months back around the basketball traps, I had to do the old, you know, cartoon, rub my eyes and see what was happening there.
Speaker: It was great to see this man again, but in our...
Speaker: absence this man James O'Donoghue has been just absolutely smashing it on the east coast there with some wonderful basketball photography his home club is the Hills Hornets but that certainly hasn't been where he's been playing his only trade he's been doing WNBL he's been doing NBL one national finals he's really making a name for himself with some really great images and great moments captured so without further ado from James O'Donoghue photography James hey pal
Speaker: Hey mate, how are you?
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you for coming on and you know it's funny how life is that you sort of you're like two ships in the night sometimes you pass by each other and you never know when you get a swing back around and it was great to see you at the Nationals and great to see you your work as well which we're going to dive into because you're going to coach me up on how to be a sports photographer so you've got your work cut out for you here.
Speaker: Thank you mate.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it was actually Nationals last year that we bumped into each other.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So in Melbourne.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We, we were lucky.
Speaker: We we've been heavily involved with the nationals and been, been, you know, very privileged to be part of those.
Speaker: So yeah, again, it was just like, geez, this basketball community, there's always the joke here in Perth is that Perth is too small.
Speaker: And I was thinking that when I saw you last year, I was like, wait, Perth's not this big.
Speaker: It's like, how am I seeing you?
Speaker: But yeah,
Speaker: Yeah, it was great to see you.
Speaker: But getting into, I guess, sports, I like to ask all my guests at the very top of our interview before we get into your chosen skill and expertise, just sort of your early fandoms when you were growing up, whether it was particular sports or athletes or teams, what really drew you to sport in general?
Speaker: Yeah, so I'm born into a New Zealand family.
Speaker: So I was born in New Zealand, strong Kiwi family.
Speaker: So my dad, for example, loved rugby.
Speaker: So we were like growing up big All Blacks fans.
Speaker: We moved, we shifted to Australia when I was like four or five years old.
Speaker: So I never really kind of developed the Kiwi accent, but I guess I still was brought up in a passionate, sports-loving Kiwi home with a dad and older brothers that, yeah, loved the All Blacks.
Speaker: So definitely a lot of rugby when I was a kid.
Speaker: Then it was growing up in country WA, quickly got into like AFL as well.
Speaker: So I was a big West Coast Eagles fan as a kid.
Speaker: We won't hold that against you.
Speaker: Are you a, are you a Dockers man?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: And this, somehow you've avoided my 37 social media accounts.
Speaker: I'm a red, white and blue man.
Speaker: I'm a Dockers man, but I did hand in my Dockers membership this year.
Speaker: So that's the confusion.
Speaker: You know, I have, I actually have, now that you say that, I do remember seeing you posting about the Bulldogs.
Speaker: Which one of a million?
Speaker: But no, I always joke about the Eagles.
Speaker: I've got good mates who coach in the AFLW program and I've got good mates who go for the Eagles as well.
Speaker: And I was lucky enough through uni to work for the Eagles.
Speaker: So anytime I jest about the Eagles, they're a good organization, despite most of the results this year.
Speaker: But yeah, so it's hard not to be in WAMB or West Coast Eagles fan like you were.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I grew up when the season, like I'm, I'm 38 now.
Speaker: So it was the nineties when I was the biggest Eagles fan.
Speaker: So I grew up in the era of Peter Matera, Peter Sumich and all those guys were my heroes as a kid.
Speaker: Can I sidetrack then?
Speaker: I truly believe this and a lot of people might chuckle or laugh or may not believe it.
Speaker: I truly believe that Peter Matera is the greatest eagle of all time.
Speaker: And I was growing up not quite understanding footy, but it just seemed that every little thing he did was just absolutely magic.
Speaker: So I always hold him.
Speaker: I know that people say, oh, there's Jard and there's, and you know, what have you, but I always have Matera top of the list.
Speaker: Where'd he rank for you?
Speaker: Yeah, I'd have him right up there in the top five for sure.
Speaker: Yeah, probably top two.
Speaker: It's hard to say.
Speaker: It's hard to... It's always hard, like, comparing different eras.
Speaker: I feel like the game changes a bit over the time.
Speaker: But, yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker: Yeah, he was an absolute superstar.
Speaker: I remember the... I think it was the 92 Grand Final...
Speaker: where he, it was either the 92 or the 94 grand final where he, he just ran all the way along the wing and picked this epic goal from the boundary.
Speaker: And that was the, the highlights of like, you know, footy for a decade here, really.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nah.
Speaker: So yeah, big Eagles fan, obviously being a basketball guy as well.
Speaker: Perth wildcat grew up watching all the wildcats games, Chicago bulls loved, um,
Speaker: Loved Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.
Speaker: Not that I was able to watch a lot of NBA as a kid.
Speaker: I don't think like growing up in the little town that we grew up in, I don't think there was actually any NBA or was on TV that you could watch.
Speaker: But I had the video game NBA Jam, which was a very big part of my childhood.
Speaker: So I quickly realized that Scottie Pippen was the best player in the game and decided to
Speaker: mainly because Michael Jordan wasn't in the game.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Some sort of contractual thing.
Speaker: Well, the guys who did NBA Jam as well, I think they were Pistons fans.
Speaker: Were they?
Speaker: I think I was talking to Squin a few weeks back on the show and I said something with absolute confidence and I was like,
Speaker: Yeah, that's totally right about the Wildcats and going black and red for Coca-Cola.
Speaker: But I'm saying it with the same certainty, but I'm likely to be proven wrong because apparently there's a glitch or something that severely negatively affects the Bulls in the game as well.
Speaker: So that's why it was always a lot tougher playing as the Bulls because they were Pistons fans.
Speaker: And it's just as they sort of went past Detroit in terms of going from the bad boy era to the Jordan era.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I didn't know that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I say that 99% sure that I'm right.
Speaker: I just remember playing that game as a kid.
Speaker: And obviously the first thing, every player has a rating just like 2k these days.
Speaker: So I remember just going through and trying to quickly find who the best player in the game was.
Speaker: And the best player in that game was Scotty Pippen who had like a rating of like 98 or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, I decided that he was my favorite player and yeah,
Speaker: I got my parents to buy me this huge big Scottie Pippen poster, which I had this big poster of Scottie Pippen up on my bedroom wall for pretty much my entire childhood.
Speaker: I actually still have it to this day.
Speaker: And the funny thing is I actually just, now that I am doing sports basketball photography myself, I went back and I looked at that poster the other day and I realized only recently that it was shot by a photographer that I now follow specifically.
Speaker: who I'm, you know, there's a guy that I follow on Instagram in the NBA.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then I saw his name down the bottom of this post and I was like, wow, there you go.
Speaker: This guy's been shooting the NBA for like 30 years.
Speaker: That's crazy.
Speaker: And have you still, have you got a photo of the poster?
Speaker: I'm going to annoy you after the, after we record and get you to send it through to us, but that's really cool.
Speaker: I'll have to, I'll have to see if I can track it down and, and send it through.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Because I mean, that's so cool.
Speaker: I mean, I always love the imagery of that time of NBA.
Speaker: I mean, Eagle Eye viewers, or I guess it's a podcast.
Speaker: So listeners would see on our episode cover arts,
Speaker: They're actually in the old Skybox basketball card style because that imagery and a lot of that is captured by those remarkable photographers.
Speaker: It just sticks with you.
Speaker: When you get that good shot and that just iconic image, it resonates with you for, in our case, being old men, decades to follow.
Speaker: Yeah, 100%.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, tell us a little bit about the photography bug, because obviously, you know, you've got a great eye for teams for the most part there.
Speaker: So you're obviously big into sport from early days.
Speaker: Where did the, I guess, the investment or the look into photography come from?
Speaker: When did that start?
Speaker: Can you recall?
Speaker: I think the first thing to say to that is before I ever got into photography, I was into videography.
Speaker: So it was actually filming and stuff that came first.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I, when I was in year 12, I, I did, I took a class called media at my school and this was also in the country.
Speaker: This is in a,
Speaker: a town called Narogen, which I'm sure you've probably heard of.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So that's where I went and did year 11 and 12 as like a boarding hostel student because my, the school, the town that I grew up in, the school only went up to grade 10.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So yeah, went off to Narogen doing year 11 and 12.
Speaker: Across the board, I wasn't a great student.
Speaker: Like I did okay at school, but like in your typical subjects like English and maths and science and all those types of things, it was...
Speaker: I was okay, but I was never really known for getting good grades.
Speaker: Like if I got a C, I was usually like pretty happy with that, to be honest.
Speaker: But then in year 12, I saw this class media, so I took it and it was just like, I just instantly took to it.
Speaker: I just loved it.
Speaker: And I ended up getting an A in media that year.
Speaker: I would just find myself like, the class actually allowed you to take cameras home and that kind of thing.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I would, we would work on like little short films for our assignments, but then I would be going to my teacher saying, hey, is it all right if I take this, take the camera back to my hostel and practice with it?
Speaker: And yeah, it was just, I think I just fell in love with it.
Speaker: I just, I was just naturally good at it.
Speaker: I naturally seemed to have an eye for camera angles and composition and storytelling.
Speaker: Like I love, it was very clear to me that I love storytelling and I got really good feedback from my media teacher about it.
Speaker: And so that, I guess, because essentially I wasn't really that good at most other subjects, but I was really good at media that helped shape my direction.
Speaker: Once I finished year 12, cause I was like, this seems to be what I'm actually good at.
Speaker: So then I, I went to, I moved to the city, moved to Perth and did film and video at TAFE.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's through central.
Speaker: That's through central TAFE.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I did a, I think I ended up doing, I finished the diploma.
Speaker: And yeah, but then after that, I kind of took it.
Speaker: There was quite a break where I didn't, I ended up just once I finished that, I just basically, I think where I was at at the time, I was just sick of being a poor student.
Speaker: So I was like, I'm just going to go work for a while.
Speaker: So I went and got a full-time job.
Speaker: I think it was a warehouse or yeah, I probably spent the next year.
Speaker: seven or eight years to be honest just working in various jobs i moved around working in warehouses and call centers yes basically i guess i was just chasing money and and i was traveling a lot as well i was doing trips overseas and stuff which was cool um but eventually i was like nah i feel like i'm i hit a point where i felt like i wasn't moving forwards so i'm like i want to go back and um study again and be a bit more specific with it so i went and then i did a uni course
Speaker: Um, and it was when I did the uni course that like a whole bunch of different opportunities came up.
Speaker: Like I actually got an opportunity because I was doing uni and the uni that I was at ECU, they had a, um, they had a partnership with the Perth Wildcats.
Speaker: Okay, yeah.
Speaker: And so the Perth Wildcats at one point reached out to our uni, to our film course, and said, hey, do you have any students that would be interested in, like, coming on board with us doing an internship?
Speaker: Oh, geez.
Speaker: Let me think about that for a second.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I saw that and jumped at it.
Speaker: And it didn't come about straight away.
Speaker: They didn't get back to me straight away.
Speaker: But at one point, it must have been a few months later, I woke up one morning and I had an email from the Perth Wildcats media guy.
Speaker: being like, hey, are you still keen to come and shoot Perth Wildcats games?
Speaker: And I was like, yes, I am.
Speaker: How do I say yes enthusiastically, but professionally at the same time?
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's crazy, crazy good how ECU's partnerships are.
Speaker: We were speaking to Bailey a few months back and he, like myself, got a placement through ECU at West Coast, which is what I alluded to beforehand.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's just that,
Speaker: The importance of, and it's not, this isn't an ad for ECU, but it's importance of a really good university.
Speaker: It's not just so much the course content, but also how they set you up with those connections and that networking ongoing past your degree.
Speaker: And that's great that they were able to get your foot in the door there at the Wildcats.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was really cool.
Speaker: And that really, that internship really started everything for me.
Speaker: Because up until that point, I was...
Speaker: Like, I guess up until that point, I was still thinking, like, I'm going to try and be a filmmaker or... A part of my course was also journalism as well.
Speaker: So I was, like, I was also getting really into sports journalism and trying to write match reports from games and that kind of thing.
Speaker: But, yeah, once I did that internship and I got into the Wildcats environment, like...
Speaker: I was shooting video of the games and also editing little highlight reels from their games.
Speaker: And the team was posting them on their Facebook page and stuff like that, which was really cool.
Speaker: But it was just like being in that environment, like getting to go backstage after the game and be part of like the press, the media conferences and stuff.
Speaker: I just loved and thrived being around professional sport.
Speaker: And I was like, this is actually where I want to be.
Speaker: This is what I want to be doing.
Speaker: And while I was there, I connected with like all the guys that were doing like stills photography there.
Speaker: I connected with a bunch of those types of people as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I remember just being, I remember being in the press conference room post game and just seeing all the photographers there sitting on their laptops, editing their super awesome photos that they'd just shot from the games and thinking, man, that would be real.
Speaker: That would be really fun to actually do photography.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, it was after that internship ended.
Speaker: I did two seasons with them and then it came to an end.
Speaker: And, yeah, after that, I was, I basically just decided, like, I bought a photography camera and just started, like, having a crack at the photo side of things as well.
Speaker: Started going out to, like, different SBL games in Perth, which is now obviously NBL One West.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And just, yeah, got myself involved.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: As we, you know, the beauty of podcasts, I just have a few police sirens go past my house there.
Speaker: So with that, though, you mentioned that you got involved at that SBL, MBL1 level.
Speaker: Now,
Speaker: As we spoke about, you know, I was like, when I saw your face again, I was like, what?
Speaker: I must be seeing things because we did have a cup of coffee at one of those existing workplaces, but it's probably for the better we don't talk about that too much.
Speaker: I wasn't a completely pleasant person at that time.
Speaker: And to be really honest, and I think I was more than a dick to you and many other people, to say the least, which I say...
Speaker: I say with a smirk now, but it wasn't a good place.
Speaker: But what sort of brought the move to the east?
Speaker: Did you do more work here with those SBL, NBL1 clubs or sort of was it for photography you decided to move over to the east coast?
Speaker: So, yeah, so I finished my – I will say, I will just add, I ended up doing a – while I was still in Perth, I think this must have been 2017, I did an internship with the Willerton Tigers for a full season where I was –
Speaker: I was primarily there as a journalist, like I was writing all the match reports from the Willerton Tigers games.
Speaker: And they were publishing them in their local kind of Willerton community newspaper, which was really cool.
Speaker: So, and they, they usually wanted an image with the, with the reports as well.
Speaker: And sometimes there was another lovely photographer there called June who would shoot photos and they would use her photos sometimes.
Speaker: But every now and then I thought it would be cool to get my own photo in there as well.
Speaker: So I started, that was kind of when I got, I had my camera, I'd already gone and bought a camera.
Speaker: So I started shooting some photos while I was there on game night and then sending, writing the match report, sending that to the newspaper along with my own photo and just seeing my own stuff getting published.
Speaker: So yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker: Like, that's a pretty cool moment when you see that for not even just the first time, but ongoing, it is cool to see, you know, your work be good enough to be, you know, published to, to that sort of mass sort of audience.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was very cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Really, really loved it.
Speaker: And then in terms of like how I ended up coming over to the East Coast, eventually I finished my uni degree and graduated.
Speaker: I have an older brother that is also in the whole media sphere as well.
Speaker: He's a video editor and a producer.
Speaker: And he'd already moved over here and started working for a company as a video editor.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so when I graduated, my initial thing was try and apply for jobs in Perth.
Speaker: um i'd actually gone for i had gone for a job that i'd seen at the west coast eagles as well actually they they were hiring like a video kind of creative sort of producer role um i had a couple of interviews for that but sadly didn't get it yeah um and then my brother that was already living in sydney so he'd made the move over here a couple of years before
Speaker: he basically at that point said, hey, man, I don't know how you feel about shifting to Sydney as well, but if you wanted to come over here, I could probably get you a job where I'm working.
Speaker: Oh, that's cool.
Speaker: And yeah, that's, and I was, I think I really wanted that Eagles job.
Speaker: But then once it fell through, I remember just calling my brother and saying, I reckon it might be time for a move.
Speaker: Let's, what can we do to make this happen?
Speaker: So yeah, he put the wheels in motion and then started having like Zoom interviews and I got the gig.
Speaker: Um, so yeah, moved over here as a video editor.
Speaker: Um, but then as soon as, but I kind of knew it was like, I think where I was at at the time in Perth was like, I felt a bit, I'd been living in Perth a very, very long time.
Speaker: I think I just felt like I wasn't quite moving forwards.
Speaker: I felt a bit stuck.
Speaker: And so I was excited at the prospect of a move to Sydney with more opportunity.
Speaker: Um, but I think I also knew that being a video editor wasn't exactly what I wanted to do.
Speaker: It was something I could do and I was good at, but I didn't really.
Speaker: I knew that the photography thing was more of a passion for me.
Speaker: So I came over, got settled here, started working, but as soon as I arrived, I quickly looked up who my local basketball team in my area was.
Speaker: So I moved to the Hills district of Sydney.
Speaker: That's where I live now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, when I arrived, I looked up and I was like, oh, Hills Hornets, they're my local team.
Speaker: So I just basically reached out to them with a cold email, just introducing myself.
Speaker: I sent them some of my photos that I'd shot at Willerton back in Perth.
Speaker: And then, yeah, lovely lady called Christy from the Hornets got back to me.
Speaker: She must have looked at my link and thought my photos were pretty good.
Speaker: And was like, yeah, we'd be interested in bringing you down and seeing what you can do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So they invited me to one of their Hills Hornets senior games.
Speaker: This would have been in 2019, mid-2019.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I just shot the game.
Speaker: I didn't charge them anything, obviously, because they hadn't, you know, didn't have any relationship with them at all.
Speaker: So I just shot the game for free.
Speaker: And yeah, they sent me back an email a few days later saying they absolutely loved my photos and they wanted to bring me in again and sit me down and chat about, you know, chat about an arrangement.
Speaker: So yeah, that was the, that opportunity for the Hills Hornets was a massive turning point and a kind of a,
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know how to describe it.
Speaker: But yeah, it was a big thing.
Speaker: Well, I mean, you must have done a good job if they were like wanting to put you in retainer straight away.
Speaker: And having looked at your work, yeah, obviously we know that you do more than a good job.
Speaker: Just the curious thing that struck me just then, obviously growing up, you know, basketball, footy, it was, you know, obviously you've got the...
Speaker: the New Zealand background as well.
Speaker: So there was obviously that eye on rugby.
Speaker: Was it always basketball that you thought you'd be wanting to shoot?
Speaker: Because I know you've got a passion for the game.
Speaker: We've seen on your Instagram, you're draining some threes from the corner as well on the social circuit.
Speaker: But you did obviously go for the Eagles job and there's, there's a, I guess a case to be made.
Speaker: And I've said this previously, the Eagles are the biggest sporting organization in Western Australia, whether you go for them or not, they are, they, they just are.
Speaker: But was it always basketball that you thought that you'd end up finding yourself within?
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: Even though I did love the Eagles as a kid, I think I lost touch in my adult years.
Speaker: I would say I definitely lost touch with the Eagles and definitely wasn't as big of an AFL fan as what I was a basketball fan.
Speaker: Pretty much since I moved to Perth as an 18-year-old and lived pretty much most of my adult life in Perth,
Speaker: basketball was really everything for me.
Speaker: I played socially like Monday nights, Thursday nights, Saturdays.
Speaker: I would be attending Wildcats games, attending, you know, attending SBL games.
Speaker: Like I was just watching NBA, watching NBL very, basically I just have always been a person that's been very plugged into the basketball world.
Speaker: And because of that,
Speaker: it's the sport that I know the best and kind of had contacts in and yeah, it made sense for me to shoot basketball.
Speaker: I think.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And what, what do you think it is about the game that, that really draws you in there?
Speaker: I mean, you can't, you can just say Scotty Pippen if you like, but what is it about the game of basketball that, that you dig there, whether it's photography playing or just fandom?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just like, it's just such a, it's just such a fast paced action packed game.
Speaker: It's, there's always something happening.
Speaker: There's always moments of excitement, but,
Speaker: um you know a big dunk or a huge three and the crowd going off like it's just and it's all very close like i guess as a photographer as well you're close to you can be like right there close to the action yeah um the types of photos you can get as a photographer i think are better because you just like you're right there amongst it you know
Speaker: Have you had any close shaves being that close to the action just to quickly take you off track?
Speaker: Yeah, I've been, I've had people fall on me a couple of times.
Speaker: Luckily, nothing too serious, but yeah, I've definitely had some close calls.
Speaker: I think I posted one and I'm not sure if you saw, I posted one on my Instagram last season where a very big guy came crashing down right on top of me and kind of bumped me and I kind of got scattered across the floor a little bit, but luckily I was all right.
Speaker: I did have quite a sore shoulder the following day.
Speaker: I can imagine.
Speaker: Makes for a good shot, though, if you got it as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That immersive player falling on top of you thing there.
Speaker: But you're right.
Speaker: It is such a fast-paced game.
Speaker: It's fast-paced, but it's a lot of moments combined into one as well.
Speaker: Every play...
Speaker: is another opportunity for someone to do something special, whether it's from a team point of view or, or individual point of view.
Speaker: So it's like, you know, in a great game, you can have 40 highlights a game, you know?
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You can get a lot of really cool stuff.
Speaker: It's just like a lot of, a lot of energy to it.
Speaker: Well, maybe not every game, but there's a lot of games which just packed with energy and emotion.
Speaker: And that's, that's all good stuff that you can capture as a photographer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So with, with this, we've spoken a little bit about your first gigs and, and, you know, how you got involved at the Hills Hornets as well now, which is obviously where the bread and butter started to come in from a photography point of view.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How did you see things start to expand from there?
Speaker: Were there any breakthrough or breakout moments that you thought about at that time that allowed you to dive deeper into really pursuing the photography side of things?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: It was actually interesting.
Speaker: I feel like COVID was a turning point because up until COVID, I'd pretty much just been shooting Hills Hornets games.
Speaker: And that was, that was just what I did.
Speaker: So I was working full time, but then it was just like once, once every week or once every fortnight on a weekend when the Hills Hornets had their home game, I would shoot that, but that was all I was doing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then COVID happened and obviously all of Sydney, you guys in Perth didn't really get as affected, you guys didn't really get affected at all for the most part, did you?
Speaker: No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker: We were fortunate in many ways with the pandemic.
Speaker: But over here, it was all a bit crazy, massive lockdown.
Speaker: Obviously for several months, well, I can't remember how long it was, but for quite a while, the events were all
Speaker: like the whole second half of one of our seasons just got cancelled and called off.
Speaker: But then once things came back, there was still a lot of restrictions in place.
Speaker: And obviously because of how long the lockdown had been, teams were like my local club, the Hornets, they didn't, they got hit really hard.
Speaker: And so they didn't really have much budget to keep bringing me in.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It was at that point where I was like, okay, well, I want to keep shooting games.
Speaker: How am I going to do this?
Speaker: So then I did some research and realized that I was like, hey, what about if I just shoot their games and I could also go and start shooting other teams as well?
Speaker: And what about if I just sell my photos to the actual individuals that
Speaker: Because I hadn't really thought of that.
Speaker: I hadn't really thought of that as a concept at that point.
Speaker: So I did some research, found a website that allowed me to list my photos on there and actually sell them.
Speaker: And then that's what I did.
Speaker: I was like, well, I want to keep doing this.
Speaker: So I just started.
Speaker: And then I started from there, I started reaching out to different clubs.
Speaker: Like there's a whole bunch of different obviously clubs all over Sydney.
Speaker: And I was just like, hey, is it all right if I come along?
Speaker: shoot your game this week my photos that I shoot I'll put them on my website yeah if any players want them they can pay for them individually off the site and yeah and then from there because I was doing that and just making my way around to different clubs I started building more connections and started building up my client base because then then more teams started seeing my work and then they started once once things were kind of normalized again and
Speaker: you know, their, their budget started to pick back up again.
Speaker: Then, you know, they were like, Hey, we'd like your photos too.
Speaker: Why don't we pay you to come in?
Speaker: And so then ended up working my up to the point where I had probably four or five different teams around Sydney that were bringing me in to shoot, shoot their games for them.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, I credit, I credit COVID like it's funny, like COVID brought a lot of bad, but it also COVID forced a lot of people in a lot of different industries to, um,
Speaker: Think like you had, you were forced to reinvent the wheel.
Speaker: It was like, okay, well, I want to do this.
Speaker: Well, I need to change and, you know, do things slightly differently.
Speaker: So yeah, I think that side of COVID was helpful for me.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's fair comment.
Speaker: I mean, you know, I think there are some things that from that time period, you know, obviously the pandemic is very, very horrible and whatnot, but there were things that just changed about how industries looked at how they did business.
Speaker: And there were some changes that were made positively because of, you know, it was forced upon things.
Speaker: So one thing that, you know, was really interesting about what you're talking about there in terms of shopping yourself around for want of a better term is
Speaker: is just that ability to market yourself and network and really be a salesperson for yourself.
Speaker: I know over here from a commentary perspective, we've got some people who do the commentary side of things really well, but also are really good at selling themselves and networking, which is admittedly something I've spoken to a lot of my mates about.
Speaker: I'm not really good at selling myself, to be honest, but
Speaker: How do you find that you build up those skills to build up that confidence to then say, look, this is my work and I believe in enough that I think you should let me come down and I know you're going to buy my photography or my services to come down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Are you saying like, how, how, how do I have the confidence to reach out to clubs?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just to be able to sell yourself because that's, you know, your work speaks for itself, but sometimes the work alone isn't enough.
Speaker: You still have to be proactive to, to put yourself out there.
Speaker: Like you did there by just saying, Hey, I'll come down and then have a look at my photos and I'll back myself in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think I stand on the back of the relationships that I built.
Speaker: I think when I was going to the clubs, I was meeting the different presidents of the teams and that sort of thing.
Speaker: And I think that was really important, just like building those connections.
Speaker: But then, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know if I did too much more than that, to be honest.
Speaker: It was just...
Speaker: Building the connections with the people at the places that I was going to.
Speaker: And then it was just capturing great photos and putting them on Instagram, to be honest.
Speaker: I felt like my, to be quite honest, I feel like my marketing strategy is
Speaker: very basic.
Speaker: It's really, I go to games, I shoot cool photos and I chuck them on Instagram and then I tag the players in them and then people see my stuff and reach out to me and I get DMS from people all like all sorts of random people around Sydney will be like, Hey man, love your work.
Speaker: You want to want to come shoot this event or want to come shoot our games?
Speaker: um and so yeah it was just that and it was just like the consistency of doing it like i just i was determined to be consistent in what i was doing i'm like i know that i want to do basketball photography and i know that if i just consistently keep putting out good stuff good things are going to happen and i feel like that's kind of my story of how things have built and grown
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I mean, and you're absolutely right.
Speaker: The work is high quality.
Speaker: That's why it does speak for itself.
Speaker: Let's go a little bit more granular about the, I guess, the photography side of it.
Speaker: Because what we like to do on the show is, you know, where we can, you know, I, as the vessel of our listening viewership, am coached on how to actually do this skill.
Speaker: Now, I tell you what, I am the king of the terrible selfies.
Speaker: So I probably...
Speaker: I'm not going to become a great photographer.
Speaker: And my media in year 12, I had to resort to throwing myself downstairs to try and get a passing grade.
Speaker: But what's it like photographizing?
Speaker: See, I can't even say what it is.
Speaker: So that's probably not a good, that's strike one, as my friend Mike would say.
Speaker: What's it like photographing live sport, like specifically basketball?
Speaker: What are the things you've got to be acutely aware of?
Speaker: Or what are you looking for?
Speaker: when you're in that mode yeah you're looking for i guess well i guess every photographer is different there's a lot of photographers that have different things they look for i guess from my point of view i i want to capture the emotion and the energy of the game i want to capture fast pace um high octane i want to i want to show images that reflect
Speaker: how energetic and crazy that game is like players, you know, aggressively attacking the basket or, you know, rising up for a shot.
Speaker: I want to capture the people on the sideline going, you know, cheering as their team scores.
Speaker: Anyone showing any sort of emotion, any even frustration, like that's, that's the kind of stuff that I'm looking out for as a photographer, I guess.
Speaker: Is that kind of what you mean?
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: I mean, and I love that you use the word emotion because at the end of the day, what people love about sport is that emotional connection to whether it's a team, whether it's a player, whether it's a moment, their hometown, whatever it is.
Speaker: It's a highly emotive, you know, expression, whether it's you're an athlete on the court or you're that fan who's invested in that side or that sport.
Speaker: So I love that you mentioned the emotion is what you're wanting to capture rather than, you know, someone who may not be, you know, and I'm not saying there's many ways to get to the right destination, but...
Speaker: You know, some people might be saying, hey, I'm looking for quality shot like, you know, basketball or I'm looking for this or, you know, but that the first thing you say is emotion.
Speaker: And that is probably why your images strike a chord because you're trying to look for that emotive tissue.
Speaker: I like to I like to think of myself these days where I I try not to almost think about myself as a basketball photographer.
Speaker: Instead, I think about myself as a people photographer, but I just do that in the context of a basketball court.
Speaker: So all the things that in general make a good photo of a person, like interesting facial expressions, emotion, showing energy, all those types of principles that make a good photo,
Speaker: I'm just trying to capture that stuff, but the basketball court is where I do that.
Speaker: So it's kind of like reframing how you go about it or reframing what your mindset is towards it.
Speaker: And that actually changes the types of photos that you capture and the types of stuff you get.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if there happens to be a Spalding or Wilson in there, you know, like a fortune.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Well, you do see some photographers that get out there and they take some good stuff, but like 99% of their photos is just, you know, an action shot or a shot of a player just walking the ball up the court or some sort of routine part of the game.
Speaker: And that is shooting basketball, I guess, but it's, you're not quite getting into the heart of the game.
Speaker: that connection that that what matters to to people who are and even say players when they look back at the photos they want to get themselves back into that moment hopefully it's not them cussing at a missed shot or something like that they probably don't want that one as the display pic but yeah yeah they can reconnect to that moment which is just yeah it's a really great perspective i hadn't really thought about it as again i've got the equivalent of two left feet as a photographer but
Speaker: No, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker: And you sort of segued organically into what I was going to ask about what makes a good shot because what you're looking for makes that good shot.
Speaker: But with that, being that you're looking for that people photography in the context of a basketball game or a basketball arena, what do you find the biggest challenges are with your role in trying to capture that appropriately?
Speaker: Yeah, refs getting in the way is a big deal.
Speaker: Uh, yeah, we love our refs, but yeah, I do.
Speaker: I shouldn't say that because some reps might listen to this and I do.
Speaker: I've built up real, like actually, to be honest, I'll, I'll brag on the refs a bit.
Speaker: Cause especially here in Sydney, the refs are some of my best supporters.
Speaker: Like I've got a whole bunch of amazing refs that follow me and are always like super excited to see my photos.
Speaker: Um, feel free to name drop, feel free to shout them out.
Speaker: Too many of them to name, uh, miss some out and then some would be upset.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a lot of awesome refs.
Speaker: And it took me a while, but I ended up realizing, man, the refs want the photos just as much as the players do.
Speaker: They love it.
Speaker: When they are people.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Contrary to what one-eyed or, you know, some boganistic fans might think that, yeah, referees are human beings too.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And the photos are important to them.
Speaker: So I've made it a key thing now.
Speaker: Most of the games I shoot, I'm actively looking for moments to capture refs doing their thing as well.
Speaker: That said, I would be lying if I said there wasn't times where...
Speaker: trying to shoot around a ref wasn't a challenge because sometimes like the best, the best spots to get the best photos are obviously along the baseline and the refs are running along the baseline.
Speaker: Uh, so yeah, one challenge is just keeping,
Speaker: you know, trying to capture that moment without someone in your way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, they do need the best view of the play.
Speaker: It is kind of their job.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It's every photographer's struggle though, isn't it?
Speaker: It's, but yeah, actually to be honest, I don't know if you'd call it a challenge.
Speaker: It's just,
Speaker: it's just something to be aware of, I guess, as you're doing your job, just something you have to always be thinking about.
Speaker: Like if I sit here in this spot, like am I done?
Speaker: And a big moment happens while I'm in this spot, is there a chance that I won't get the shot because someone will get in my way?
Speaker: So that's just something you always have to be thinking about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Yeah, I'm just thinking because when you were talking about the refs and them getting in the way, I always hearken back a little bit to my time's gone by as a wrestling commentator and we would joke about the refs getting in the way, the shots and things like that.
Speaker: I know some of our fans as well at the time would be a little bit upset at our people filming the action.
Speaker: Do you ever get any pushback from the fans or –
Speaker: Is it sort of part of the role just to sort of, you know, be in those positions where you're not obscuring someone's view of their enjoyment of the game as well?
Speaker: I don't think I've ever had that when I've been doing photography, to be honest.
Speaker: Most of the photography games that I'm shooting, like I have shot a bunch of WNBL and NBL, but most of the photography I've done is the lower semi-pro stuff with smaller crowds and people are pretty chill.
Speaker: So I haven't really had any issues doing that.
Speaker: Yeah, I do remember back when I was at the Wildcats actually doing video I remember I had an angry, an angry guy in a in a corporate box sitting behind me kind of yell at me one time even though I was I was sitting or kneeling so I didn't think I was in his way but somehow he was.
Speaker: this particular guy was still upset feeling like I was must've been blocking his view or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He was probably just seeing you as if you're like Dickie knee on Hey, Hey or something, just popping up or something.
Speaker: I think, I think it had a few drinks to be honest and he was just a bit of a dick, but, but yeah, apart from that one time, I haven't really had any issues with people being upset at me blocking their view or any, I'm pretty, I do my best to make sure I'm kind of not,
Speaker: standing, you know, impeding someone's view of the game.
Speaker: And if I do need to kind of go into a spot where I feel like I might be, I try to not stay there too long and move on really quickly.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: What do you find is the biggest difficulty, just taking a step back from the technical side of things for the moment, biggest difficulty between juggling, you know, being that available and doing the gig there for, you know, the various games like at nighttime and whatnot.
Speaker: And I guess the nine to five and life outside of, I guess, a quote unquote gig economy, even though it's sporting.
Speaker: um sorry do you can you just uh just like difficulty how do you balance what you do with your sports photography with what else you do photography wise or life wise yeah well I'm so I'm a full-time freelancer so I like photography is my whole gig actually I don't have um I don't uh I don't work full-time in that video editing job anymore COVID uh COVID ended that
Speaker: so then once once that happened I just decided well I'm going to do this full-time yeah so yeah I'm shooting sport on the weekends and then during the week I'm shooting for a school in my area quite a bit okay yeah so that's that's a blessing and a curse all at the same time like it's it's amazing to like
Speaker: I guess I guess I'd say I'm quite proud of myself that I've I've got to a point where I'm like fully sustaining myself and living off just photography.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is the dream, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah, that's the dream.
Speaker: Like I'm doing what I absolutely like.
Speaker: This is the first time in my life where I feel like I'm finally just doing what I really love.
Speaker: And there's no doubt in my mind that this is what I want to do.
Speaker: Like I love it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm earning semi-decent money doing it.
Speaker: I'm not quite where I want to be financially just yet, but I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm on the way there.
Speaker: And so, yeah, that's a really good place to be in.
Speaker: And I'm really happy that I'm doing that.
Speaker: Cause I feel like I waste, I were talking to before about the jobs that we worked in before.
Speaker: I feel like in my twenties, I probably wasted a few too many years just working in jobs that I didn't really have a passion for.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And wasn't necessarily that gifted at either.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, there's that.
Speaker: But then obviously the challenge of being a full-time freelancer is just having to do everything yourself.
Speaker: So you've got to do all your own marketing, you've got to do all your own accounting, all your own social media, like all your own shooting and editing.
Speaker: Like I'm doing everything myself.
Speaker: So that is a challenge in itself, just having to do everything and not having any help, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's the thing.
Speaker: I mean, I'm without getting too sentimental or soppy about it, but your story is exactly one of those stories about what happens when you do better on yourself, which you have.
Speaker: And it's, it's incredible to see.
Speaker: And it's, it's wonderful that you're able to get to that, that point now by backing yourself in to be, okay, I'm a photographer.
Speaker: I'm a freelance photographer.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: Whereas some people still have to, to juggle the two at the moment.
Speaker: So that's wonderful to hear.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What do you think the most rewarding thing about being involved in the game is as a photographer?
Speaker: I mean, you mentioned the, I guess, the cool moments when you were way back when with the Wildcats, being able to be part of that press huddle and whatnot.
Speaker: But what do you find the most rewarding parts of being in that role in this basketball environment?
Speaker: Yeah, I think for me, it's the capturing great photos of people
Speaker: players particularly the juniors like i've had a lot of opportunities as well to shoot like junior games um and i love it when you capture an amazing photo of a kid for example and then their parents their parents come and buy the photo and the messages and the emails you get from the parents i think that is like really that makes me feel so good when parents email me and say oh my god i love this i captured a photo um i'll have to show it to you i captured a photo of a um
Speaker: It's on my Instagram, actually, of a kid.
Speaker: I was shooting a three-on-three tournament at Hills Hornets.
Speaker: It was a junior kind of all-day tournament in the school holidays.
Speaker: And this little boy hit this epic game-winning three.
Speaker: It was an overtime three-on-three game, and he hits a three-pointer to win the game.
Speaker: And basically just like the whole court just erupted.
Speaker: Like everyone runs into the middle of the court.
Speaker: This kid's like in the middle of the huddle being picked up by everyone, just like screaming for joy.
Speaker: It was just like an epic.
Speaker: It was just like, and I was just like in the perfect place at the perfect time, perfect angle where I could see his face.
Speaker: I could see all the other kids like hovering around him.
Speaker: And I got this cool photo.
Speaker: And yeah, and his mum obviously got hold of the photo and she reached out to me and I ended up sending her the high res copy.
Speaker: But she was just so grateful.
Speaker: Like just the messages I was getting from her, I was like, man, this is so cool.
Speaker: Like this is what validates what I do when I get messages like this.
Speaker: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker: I mean, and we spoke about it a little bit in terms of the emotion and the moment.
Speaker: It's just, it's being able to capture those memories in their most authentic form.
Speaker: And I think if it's a photo that I'm thinking about and I had been scrolling here, it was at the Hills Stadium.
Speaker: So yeah, I can see it there and we'll share that once this goes to air.
Speaker: It's just like, it's just the perfect moment.
Speaker: storm of just everyone converging on this kid after yeah it's just and like that kid in 10 15 years time is going to look back at that moment and be able to pinpoint exactly that feeling yeah that what that was about it's yeah well his mum messaged me and told me that she's uh she's she was in the process of getting it printed and framed and she was going to be up on his bedroom wall oh that's so cool so i was like that's pretty cool
Speaker: Yeah, but I get a lot of, not even just kids as well, like all the senior players that I shoot, I get a lot of really cool messages from them thanking me for capturing their games.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I think culture's probably a bit different over in WA.
Speaker: Over in WA...
Speaker: there's actually quite a lot of basketball photographers floating around Perth.
Speaker: I remember when I was living in Perth and going to games at Bendat and different places like that, there'd always be three or four other photographers over there.
Speaker: But particularly when I first got to Sydney, it's changed a bit now, but when I first came to Sydney and especially through the COVID period, like I was really the only one here doing it for the most part.
Speaker: Like most other venues I would go around to, there was no one shooting these games.
Speaker: All the players, all the,
Speaker: um it wasn't it wasn't called nbl1 at that point it was still called the waratah league over here um but yeah all the players just like weren't getting good photos of themselves um and then i once i arrived and started making a thing where i was like regularly going around all these different stadiums and shooting games and posting photos and putting them on instagram yeah players just flocked to it and they loved it and they yeah a lot of them reach out to me with lovely messages thanking me for
Speaker: you know, I got a really cool message from a girl a few months ago who I didn't even know it was her first game, but I captured her first NBA.
Speaker: She reached out to her with a message.
Speaker: Thank you so much for capturing my first NBA one game.
Speaker: It means so much to me.
Speaker: Stuff like that is like, yeah, that's, that's the, by far the most rewarding part, like being able to be someone that captures people's journeys and in,
Speaker: 10 or 20 years time, they can look back and they've got a document of their sporting journey.
Speaker: Cause I like me myself, I played, I played sports all the way through school.
Speaker: And I don't think I have a single photo.
Speaker: Like I played for the, I grew up in this town called Corrigan, um,
Speaker: And I played all of my junior football for the Corrigan Tigers.
Speaker: And I don't think I've got a single photo of me running around playing for the Corrigan Tigers.
Speaker: Now, I would love to look back and see a cool action shot of myself kicking a goal for the Corrigan Tigers, but I don't have it.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, again, those memories and those moments.
Speaker: And, like, to your point there, I play very, very, very amateur cricket here for my beloved Warwick Greenwood.
Speaker: And we've made a point of it in the past to make sure that we were able to get photographers down to
Speaker: you know, predominantly grand finals, but also games along the way.
Speaker: So this was a long time ago back when I had some pool there, but in terms of like, we wanted that for not only marketing, so we could put that out and say, Hey, come join our club.
Speaker: But then, you know, you can have a player that you played with 10 years ago.
Speaker: They can send you that message, whether it's on Facebook, whether it's a text, whatever it might be and go, Hey, you see this photo, remember this moment.
Speaker: And it's exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker: It's just being able to look back and go, Oh,
Speaker: oh yeah, that was cool.
Speaker: It was quite a different time in my life or it was a great moment, a great friendship, whatever it might've been.
Speaker: And especially in the case of that photo with that kid as well.
Speaker: I mean, you talk about how you've got this poster of Scottie Pippen from over 20 years ago, Neuron 30.
Speaker: That kid's gonna have that picture that you took for another 20, 30 years to come.
Speaker: That's gotta be so satisfying.
Speaker: Yeah, very satisfying.
Speaker: Yeah, that's definitely what it's about for me.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: We'll have to make sure that we get some people down taking photos of your social game, which we are going to touch on.
Speaker: We're going to touch on how your ball is going, but we need to get some people down there.
Speaker: So if you are a photographer in Sydney, make sure you're following along so you can get some photos of James.
Speaker: Hills Hornets on a Monday night.
Speaker: The good thing about the Hills Hornets is they have the, I don't know if they have it in Perth yet, they h ave a thing called Glory League.
Speaker: So each week you get your highlight reel sent to you after like emailed to you after the game, because they've got cameras installed in the stadium.
Speaker: It's like a little, yeah, it's almost like a little security camera that sits up in the roof.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it uses AI to track the track, the player.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We've, I say weave, but you know, I'm just like a,
Speaker: part-time freelance commentator but at the senators they've got that installed that they actually have that installed they're not sure how frequently they use it in terms of the the other leagues outside of the um nbl1 west but i know that um if it's not a ko game that's the camera they're they're predominantly using there in the nbl1 coverage as well
Speaker: So yeah, that same sort of auto tracking sort of stuff there as well.
Speaker: So that's cool that they do that for the Mondays.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I play a game on a Monday night and then get home.
Speaker: And about two hours later, I get an email from glory league saying your highlight reel is ready.
Speaker: And so you open it up and you can either watch the full game back
Speaker: or it also sends you your personal highlights as well so every you know last week i hit a couple of threes and a couple of twos sure did click a little link click a little link and then there you can watch it all straight away it's really cool that's absolutely crazy yeah yeah so there's plenty of uh there's plenty of video highlights of me out there running around but it would be cool to get some photos at some point i should um
Speaker: get someone else to come down and hit one of our games.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hit up some of your contacts or someone listening along.
Speaker: If you, if you've got a camera in the Hills area, just head on down Monday nights with that in mind.
Speaker: Well, I joke about it just then about your contacts and things like that.
Speaker: And we touched on it a little bit when you were talking about how you first really made that leap in Sydney there from being, you know, starting at the Hills and then expanding, but how, how important is that relationship building there?
Speaker: for you with the teams and athletes themselves.
Speaker: You know, you mentioned you get a few messages and things like that saying, hey, great photo and things like that.
Speaker: But is it important to have that really good, healthy relationship with those, for want of better term, subjects that you're capturing?
Speaker: Yeah, it's massive.
Speaker: It's a huge part of the gig.
Speaker: I get a lot of compliments from players saying that they really love and respect the way that I
Speaker: don't just take the photos but i actually get to know the players as well yeah um i get to i try to i do my best to try to kind of build relationships with the players and not just the players but the people in around the clubs as well there's a whole bunch of different people that go into making the clubs run and happen like video people and well just general organizers refs like everyone there's so many different people stats people um even like players parents as well i've built relationships with different
Speaker: players parents and stuff as well and they follow along on my instagram and will send me lovely messages and stuff and all of that all of that relationship building is is yeah it's really important i think and and like sometimes gigs extra gigs will come out of that as well like players or people in general are more likely to buy from someone that they know and like and trust um and so if you're just kind of this
Speaker: anonymous kind of quiet photographer that's just distantly floating around capturing games and not really engaging getting to know anyone it's I feel like it's less likely that you're going to get more gigs but if you actually kind of integrate yourself in and and you know build those relationships then it's people are more comfortable to reach out to you if something comes up when I want a photographer so yeah I think it's a really big part of it
Speaker: And I, yeah, I pride myself on being someone that kind of tries to do that as well.
Speaker: Well, you mentioned there, obviously, you know, being able to be trusted and things like that, and that's led to other gigs.
Speaker: So you mentioned, you know, your marketing is pretty much the basis of your work, but it's also what helps you get that more work because people are going, yes, this is a great person I've worked with and things like that.
Speaker: So with that in mind,
Speaker: What are some of the most rewarding events that you've been able to work on through the strength of those connections in your work?
Speaker: Yeah, definitely some of the grand finals I've shot.
Speaker: Like last year for – oh, sorry, this year, for example, I got to shoot the –
Speaker: the NBL one East grand final day.
Speaker: That was really cool.
Speaker: Getting to one of the teams that I have closely followed and been closely involved with for a while now, the Sutherland sharks, the things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They're their men's team won the one, the NBL one East grand final.
Speaker: So getting, getting to capture that was really special for me.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Oh, and that, that kind of touches back in with what I was just talking about as well.
Speaker: There was a, there was one of the most, one of the best shots I got that day shooting that grand final,
Speaker: was a shot of the star player of the Sutherland men's team is a guy called Lachlan Hutchinson.
Speaker: Not sure if you know him.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I saw him at the Nationals as well.
Speaker: Yep, he had been a development player for the Sydney Kings a couple of years ago.
Speaker: And yeah, I've kind of built a bit of a relationship with him, but also his dad as well.
Speaker: His dad has been an amazing, supportive guy.
Speaker: person to me who like pretty much every every Sutherland game I've ever shot um his dad has come along and bought bought the photos of his son which has been really cool and it's just been like a really good support person and I've I've had like a lot of DM chats with his dad and um good chats with Lockie after games as well and so kind of like and I remember before in the week leading up to that grand final I was um
Speaker: I was DMing back and forward with his dad and his dad was just telling me like, it was just talking to him like how much this would mean to him, you know, how much, how much it would mean to him if he won his championship, it would just mean everything.
Speaker: Like it's all he's wanted.
Speaker: It's,
Speaker: all he's ever wanted to do is like, it was a big deal, you know?
Speaker: And so building that relationship with his dad and getting that insight.
Speaker: And then on grand final day, as soon as the final buzzer rang, I had that in my mind.
Speaker: And so I watched Lockie, like the first thing he does is the final buzzer run rang is runs to the sideline and has a huge big hug with his dad who runs out and meets him at the side of the court.
Speaker: And I just got this epic shot of a big, of a big hug between father and son.
Speaker: And I thought like, if I was just some random photographer that had just been brought in to shoot that game, like I would have had no idea about that context and no idea about that moment.
Speaker: And I wouldn't have been able to get that photo.
Speaker: You know, I wouldn't like, it wouldn't have meant anything to me.
Speaker: I would have just seen two people hugging, but I wouldn't have known the backstory.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so that's like that the relationship building isn't just good for business building or whatever.
Speaker: It actually helps you get better photos because you know, you know what's going on.
Speaker: So, yeah, sorry.
Speaker: That was a bit of a tangent from what you're... No, no, no, no.
Speaker: No, but that's perfect because having a look at those photos as well, because, you know, as a good podcaster and a multitasking active listener, I was having a look at those photos.
Speaker: And, yeah, what we'll do, when our, you know, listening viewership have got this in the ear halls, I'm not going to post these photos straight away or, like, the links to the photos straight away.
Speaker: I'm going to highly encourage them to follow your socials, which will get you to plug at the end and have a look at some of these photos and then I'll share them.
Speaker: So you have to do your homework listeners because yeah, that, that, those photos of that embrace is just, just that's exactly what sports all about.
Speaker: There's a photo that we had taken, sorry to tangent and make it all that myself, like a good podcast host, but there was a photo that we had taken in our cricket club last year after our team had won the flag.
Speaker: And it's just a photo of the team of all of us.
Speaker: Just so, and yeah,
Speaker: I think anyone who has been fortunate enough for putting the work to win a championship at any team sport, one of the best feelings you can have is not necessarily the, you know, the siren goes, the final wickets taken, whatever it is, that it's not necessarily just that elation straight away.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: That's pretty swell.
Speaker: But that moment where you go is all just take that deep breath and you just with your teammates and you just sort of take in what you've just done over a season.
Speaker: And we have a really good photo of that, fortunately.
Speaker: And, and yeah,
Speaker: it's that's the sort of thing that's the you know i think for loki and his dad they look back at that photo right there that you're those photos because you're you're snap happy but you've got great photos but they look back at those photos and they'll be able to go yes that's exactly what that that feeling was at that time and you know uh his dad messaged me the week after and told me that um well actually it was the day up the same day that i posted the photo on instagram and
Speaker: yeah um the dad messaged me and said that is uh his missus and his um and his mum had seen the photos and it made them both cry so i was like i felt bad but i was kind of kind of kind of enjoying it at the same time i don't want to make people cry but it's good tears happy happy tears yeah happy tears are good you should encourage happy tears maybe not at all times but you know yeah
Speaker: Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker: And then, yeah, sorry.
Speaker: No, no, go ahead.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: I was just going to say to, I wanted to come back to your original question of like events I've shot that have been cool.
Speaker: I last year, I got to shoot the FIBA Asian women's cup, which was really cool getting to shoot international basketball.
Speaker: So I got to shoot the Opals.
Speaker: Got to shoot the WNBL grand final last year.
Speaker: Shot a handful of different Sydney Kings games.
Speaker: So, yeah, I've had some cool opportunities as well to shoot bigger, more professional events with pro players and stuff and bigger crowds and bigger arenas.
Speaker: And that's been really good as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And there's certainly been a lot of meat on the bone, so to speak, with our chat so far in terms of like if I'm an aspiring photographer,
Speaker: which admittedly I've got the arthritis that says no.
Speaker: But if I'm an aspiring photographer, there's certainly been a lot that I can take out of what you've said so far in terms of what you want to do positively.
Speaker: And we do like to keep things positive here on the show.
Speaker: But if you were talking to an aspiring photographer, which hopefully we've got some out there in podcast land, what are some pitfalls or some common traps that you would probably, and it's a question without notice, but
Speaker: What's some of those things that you maybe get them to avoid or get them to steer clear of as an aspiring photographer?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Good question.
Speaker: Probably getting too focused on, I'm part of a lot of different sports photography groups on Facebook.
Speaker: I actually, I have my own group as well that I run called sports photographers in Australia, which I started a couple of years ago.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just all the different groups that I'm part of.
Speaker: I feel like I see photographers fixating too much on photography.
Speaker: probably on gear and camera settings and stuff like that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And I see some photographers that are going out and spending quite a lot of money investing in really expensive gear.
Speaker: thinking that that's going to give thinking that that's what's going to give them good photos.
Speaker: And it does.
Speaker: I mean, I'm not going to lie.
Speaker: It does help.
Speaker: I've, I've also spent a lot of money on my gear.
Speaker: You know, I've invested in some really top of the line lenses and stuff like that.
Speaker: Some good cameras, but just, just doing that in itself, isn't going to make your photos.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: It's, it's more the stuff I was talking about for like knowing the game, you know, having an understanding of the different players and what their tendencies are.
Speaker: being aware of what's happening around you, being able to quickly pick up moments when they happen.
Speaker: That's a big part of it.
Speaker: Like if I'm shooting the play and then all of a sudden off to the side, you know, a player, you know, a coach, I don't know.
Speaker: I'm just trying to make something out of, you know, a coach is screaming for joy on the sidelines.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's actually being quick to identify that that's what's happening and then spin around and quickly focus up on that person and get that shot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's almost like Spidey sense, so to speak.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The game awareness.
Speaker: Stuff like that.
Speaker: So I suppose to answer your question, I would encourage a new photographer to focus on learning the game and approaching the game with a sense of awareness rather than just trying to think, oh, I'm going to just go and spend a whole shit ton of money on expensive gear and then I'll have good photos.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's just more that goes into it than that.
Speaker: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker: You've got to get the fundamentals and the awareness down pack before.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, as you say, it's having the right tools, but using them the right way.
Speaker: And some people may lean on having those high end, whether it's lenses or what have you, as I guess covering the gap between maybe, and I'm putting words in your mouth here, but the attention to detail in terms of the shot they're looking for rather than just relying on the camera itself and the accessories.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: One of the things you just mentioned there, when you were like, I'll spin around, I was just like, well, I just felt my back creaking when you're talking about that.
Speaker: It is quite a mobile thing you've got to do when you're a photographer of a sporting event.
Speaker: So what's the sort of physical toll and challenges in being a photographer?
Speaker: You mentioned the unsavory gentleman, I was going to call him worse and then realized we're somewhat a PG podcast, but who was making fun of you or trying to get you out of the way from the corporate box.
Speaker: So you were like kneeling down and things like that.
Speaker: So what's the physical tools, the challenges, how do you mitigate that through a full 40 minute game and some.
Speaker: Easy answer to your question is I don't really mitigate it.
Speaker: I basically, I hope for the best.
Speaker: I sit on the floor for two hours and then I go home with a sore butt is basically the answer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I,
Speaker: Do as I say, not as I do, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: Yeah, I do see some photographers putting in more effort than me in that regard.
Speaker: Some people will bring a, like a cushion to the game or I've also seen photographers wearing knee pads so that they can kneel and shoot from their knees without hurting their knees.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, to be honest, like on game night, I'm, yeah, I usually go home a little bit sore from the games with a sore butt and a bit of a sore back, but it's just, it is what it is, I guess.
Speaker: You can't really, well, you can stand, but you get the better, you just get better photos when you're low angle.
Speaker: So sitting down is always going to give you a more dynamic point of view of the player and kind of make them look a bit more epic than if you stand.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So what I'm hearing is that if you're in the Hills area and you're a physio, just hit up James, just look after him, throw him some freebies because the man does not look after himself.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Before we leave the, I guess, the tips and tricks of the, I guess, the art of the photography itself.
Speaker: Do you have any final words to someone who might be listening going, hey, I might be interested in doing it.
Speaker: or I am doing it at the moment.
Speaker: I want to take it to the next level because obviously, as I've mentioned before, your story is one about betting on yourself and then starting to work your way up those ranks, doing international competitions, the NBL, WNBL and all of that.
Speaker: Would you have any final tips or tricks or things that you would say to someone who's thinking of either getting involved or taking to the next level in photography?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The biggest tips I suppose are just, I think I've already touched on them briefly, but it's like the key words that come to mind is firstly, like ruthless passion.
Speaker: You've got to, you've got to, you've got to be passionate about it.
Speaker: I think I've been successful as a basketball photographer because I'm very passionate about basketball.
Speaker: I am very interested in all the little nuances of the game.
Speaker: Like I play myself,
Speaker: And so because I'm shooting what I love, that comes through in my photos because I'm determined to capture good stuff.
Speaker: And I know the kinds of photos that I would like as a player myself.
Speaker: And I think that helps me.
Speaker: And then the second key word is consistency.
Speaker: You just have to be determined and consistent and just keep...
Speaker: keep grinding like keep shooting games keep getting your work out there keep tagging the players and and over time your your work will grow if you're good at it um yeah and then it's just kind of also just like doing the research as well like watching i i spent a lot of time watching youtube videos about you know best camera settings to use and um
Speaker: you know, different techniques, best positioning, you know, you follow other photographers and you see their photos on Instagram and that gives you ideas for other, other angles or other shots that would be cool.
Speaker: And then you can, you know, put your own stamp on those things as well.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: So some clear next direction for those listening along who want to continue to rise or to, you know, bring themselves into the ranks of the sports photographer.
Speaker: But let's have a look at the future looks like for you, James.
Speaker: What's the sort of future goals, both, I guess, personally as a photographer and as that freelance photographer or, you know, particular events or anything like that you'd love to be a regular at?
Speaker: What's the future look like there for yourself?
Speaker: Yeah, I'd love to, long term, I'd love to have the opportunity to shoot in the NBA at some point.
Speaker: That would be really cool.
Speaker: That'd be awesome, yeah.
Speaker: That's something I've never achieved.
Speaker: So yeah, shooting in NBA games, definitely on the list.
Speaker: I just want to really get to a point where I'm continuing to do this, but yeah, like I guess having more clients than what I have now, earning more money than what I'm earning now.
Speaker: And yeah, just continuing to get to shoot big events.
Speaker: I've really enjoyed doing the media days last season.
Speaker: I think I'd shot four or five different media days for clubs at the start of the season where you're doing all their portraits and headshots.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: We had Paul Goldie come out and do that for us at our cricket club.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's a fun day.
Speaker: Again, it's an important day having those images to accompany your season.
Speaker: So big days though.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: But I love, I love the creativity that goes along with being able to capture kind of, I've started moving into like trying to use like colored lights and smoke machine and those kinds of cool epic media day photos.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, I want to do more of that, but yeah, man, just like building, building up and getting more clients and continuing to grow my brand, grow my business, shoot for more people.
Speaker: I want to,
Speaker: yeah I think I mentioned to you before I shoot for a school as well so I'm I'm actively at the moment trying to find a couple more schools that I can shoot for as well um yeah it's like I found my niche and I found my space that I know that I'm that I'm loving it's just like trying to keep building and growing and um yeah and if I could get to shoot an NBA game along the way that would be pretty cool too
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Yeah, that'd be incredible.
Speaker: And for our listeners, if you are around the New South Wales area and, you know, we're going to put you to work here, we don't usually ask you to do much homework on the show, but James OD Photography, make sure you just tag him and share him around or put his good name or put his good handle out there to local competitions and bodies and things like that, that might...
Speaker: might do well with an injection to some high quality photography, which I'm going to hit him up for his socials again so he can give the proper sell in a moment.
Speaker: But before we put a bow in this episode, James, I've got to ask you the most important question I'm going to ask you today.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: How's the game actually going in those social legs?
Speaker: I know you post your highlights and you got a half decent corner three there.
Speaker: You know, I was thinking I was at Warwick Stadium there watching...
Speaker: um caleb davis although unfortunately he's moved away from the senators in the off season but how's the game itself going how's the side going yeah good we uh we're on a four game winning streak right now actually yeah but um that that game i just posted on monday just gone we that was an epic one point win we were we're in third place and we were playing the second place team and we took them down by a point so we were pretty happy with that yep um
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's good.
Speaker: I've got my brother on the team as well.
Speaker: You would have seen the little short point guard.
Speaker: The little short point guard that was passing me the ball on most of those threes, that's my older brother.
Speaker: So me and him are quite close and we love basketball and talk hoops together quite a lot.
Speaker: So it's really cool getting to play with him.
Speaker: And yeah, we've got a good little team.
Speaker: We made...
Speaker: I think it was last – no, sorry, it wasn't last season.
Speaker: The season before last season we made the grand final.
Speaker: But sadly, we lost in our grand final.
Speaker: But it was cool to make it there.
Speaker: But, yeah, it is what it is.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Let's pretend this is like a draft camp.
Speaker: Whose game do you model yourself on?
Speaker: I had to put a comparison out there.
Speaker: I mean, there may be a slight difference in ability, but whose game do you model on?
Speaker: Yeah, good question.
Speaker: I guess maybe, I don't know, is it too egotistical to say Kobe?
Speaker: Well, I mean, you can definitely mould your game on it.
Speaker: You can't be Kobe.
Speaker: There's only one.
Speaker: But you can definitely say you can try and use that Mumba mentality in the game.
Speaker: I'm clearly not as athletic or as talented, that's for sure.
Speaker: Oh, thanks for clarifying.
Speaker: Thanks for that disclaimer, Jan.
Speaker: Just in case.
Speaker: Just in case anyone saw my highlights and thought that I was actually a star.
Speaker: But I'm a shooting guard, which Kobe was.
Speaker: I'm a shooting guard that likes to sometimes pull up, spot up and hit a three, but I also like to attack as well.
Speaker: So I pride myself on mixing, mixing up my game between outside shooting and taking it to the basket.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: And, and I like to pass as well.
Speaker: So maybe that,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Actually, Kobe was a bit of a passer.
Speaker: He did have a reputation in his early days of not being much of a passer, but especially as in, you know, further on along in his career, he started to put up some good assist numbers as well.
Speaker: Don't give away the total scout.
Speaker: There might be someone listening, by the way.
Speaker: Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker: I know that we've both been, I mentioned a few weeks ago, but we've both been a little bit time poor.
Speaker: So I'm glad that we're able to actually connect up here today and have this chat.
Speaker: And as I mentioned before, we've definitely got a lot out of this here for someone who's getting interested in that space.
Speaker: So I just casually handled dropped earlier on, but where can we find your work on the socials and particular, I guess, arenas and things like that, that you might be hanging around?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you mentioned Instagram is Instagram is by far the most where I'm the most active.
Speaker: So it's just James OD photography and the same thing on Facebook, James O'Donoghue photography.
Speaker: I have a website as well.
Speaker: James OD photography.com terms of arenas.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm, I'm active all over Sydney shooting.
Speaker: I shoot most of my games at the Hills Hornets, which are my local team, but I also shoot for a couple of other teams around Sydney as well.
Speaker: So yeah, people will see me floating around the place, whatever I can get, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And as a photographer, definitely Instagram is probably the one to hit up there.
Speaker: So JamesOD Photography, make sure you're following along.
Speaker: I'd like to just pause for a second.
Speaker: We'll give them a moment just to quickly find.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: James OD Photography, type that in and follow.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Do that right now.
Speaker: And while you're doing that, we'll take the time as well to thank you very much, James, for your time today.
Speaker: Really appreciated the chat and really appreciated learning a thing or two about a thing or two about photography.
Speaker: It's been great.
Speaker: And just some of those moments and experiences, it's just absolutely expelled the value of why good sports photography, good photography, those moments being captured are so important.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Thank you so much for your time today and I really appreciate it and looking forward to seeing more of your work on Instagram and hopefully probably bump into each other next year's Nationals in the NBL one.
Speaker: Oh, sounds good.
Speaker: Hopefully it's going to be in Sydney next year.
Speaker: That's what I'm hoping for.
Speaker: So I don't have to travel all the way to Melbourne or Perth.
Speaker: We'll see, see what happens.
Speaker: Oh, it's a paid holiday.
Speaker: Why would you not want to travel?
Speaker: Well, because it costs money.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: That's a good point.
Speaker: That's a very good point.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Thanks so much for your time today.
Speaker: I really appreciate it, James.
Speaker: Much appreciated, mate.
Speaker: I appreciate you taking the time to interview me.
Speaker: Really good fun.
Speaker: Well, that was a wonderful chat there from James, and it was great to see what goes into making those moments last, and just even the technical aspect there.
Speaker: I've got the photography equivalent of two left feet, so I couldn't frame a photo to save my life, but just to see the things that he looks for, those shots, and it really falls into line with the really, really good photographers and those images that do last and stand the test of time in your brain boxes.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Thanks again, James, for his time there and his patience for having the interview come up.
Speaker: We recorded a couple of weeks ago, but as I mentioned, you know, being a little bit busy there.
Speaker: So much appreciated there for his patience as well.
Speaker: Now, I have spoken a little bit about the time that it's taken here between our last episode with Jimmy Hartness and here with James.
Speaker: I just must have this.
Speaker: It's now, hey, James, I'm coachable, by the way.
Speaker: But a lot of things have happened here.
Speaker: I mean, the Lynx, which this is now the unofficial fan podcast of, sitting at 4-3 at the moment, which again, as you should always do, date your podcast.
Speaker: And we saw that friend of the show, Chloe Forster, missed out the last game through injury.
Speaker: So hope that injury heals quickly and back on the hardwood there at the bend out there.
Speaker: But keeping an eye on that and
Speaker: keeping an eye on all the movement happening in the NBL one.
Speaker: I mean, they've had a little fresh painted coat.
Speaker: They've had a new naming sponsor.
Speaker: Things are getting exciting.
Speaker: And, and one of these that really caught my eye, at least out here in the West is just the, uh, the Rocky hand flames women's program.
Speaker: It's like they've, uh,
Speaker: you know, had their squad, and then they've given it the old itch a sketch, shake it completely, completely make it blank slate, and my goodness, that is a super soldier squad coming in.
Speaker: So, obviously wanting to give that title a real good nudge this year.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Interesting to see what happens with them and also what happens with all the player movement happening as well around not only the NBL One West, but the NBL One.
Speaker: So make sure you're following all the appropriate socials for that.
Speaker: But we're talking about chasing titles.
Speaker: The other thing that has happened since we last spoke, well, I last spoke, you listened, but, you know, I like the messages as well.
Speaker: So there's a form of speaking that transitions out of the show, but, you know.
Speaker: Anywho, you know, directorial audience, you know, aside, one other thing, chasing titles, CM Punk returned to wrestling again.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, all the copywriters who could just copy and paste what they had the last time he did it.
Speaker: But this is different.
Speaker: He's, well, he hasn't returned to wrestling.
Speaker: He's returned to sports entertainment.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's interesting, it's caused quite the polarizing opinion online, which again, never read the comments.
Speaker: But it's interesting to see now that, I guess time, money, all that heals all wounds.
Speaker: Don't forget, this is a man that was served by the former regime at WWE, served the papers that they were suing the proverbial pants off him on the day of his wedding, which yeah,
Speaker: That's just a little coink-a-dink in it.
Speaker: So it's just interesting to see.
Speaker: And I'm always of the opinion, I've spoken this a couple of times with some of my friends who are involved in wrestling or big fans of wrestling.
Speaker: It's just like, I don't give a damn about all the backstage stuff.
Speaker: It's often trotted out as a line from wrestlers.
Speaker: It's like, you don't care about who likes who in the favorite soap operas, TV shows, all that, that you watch.
Speaker: You don't care.
Speaker: Well, it's a little bit different reality TV now, but you know,
Speaker: that's probably the exception rather than the rule.
Speaker: So I always find it interesting that people care more about, oh, does he like him or they got to get into a fistfight or blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: And don't just enjoy the product for what it is.
Speaker: And at the end of the day, yeah, there's probably a lot of hypocrisy, probably a lot.
Speaker: Um, and that's putting it very mildly as an unashamed CM Punk fan as a performer.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: A lot of hypocrisy about going back to WWE, about all the things that he said that were running through his head, running through his head in the time that he was away.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, who hasn't said stupid things?
Speaker: Who hasn't been unhappy with where they've worked?
Speaker: All that I give a damn about is that the product that I'm watching and that I am entertained by, because again, you watch Shock Surprise, Episode 10, the former wrestling commentator likes wrestling.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: All I care about is the actual product that's being put out.
Speaker: And if it's a good product and I'm enjoying it, you know, let's not care about all the backstage drama.
Speaker: Again, this isn't going to be some soapbox op-ed that people are going to go, oh, by golly, gosh, he's right.
Speaker: I'm going to jump off that message board.
Speaker: Well, I don't know why I've turned into this really Aussie voice and still can't get out of it.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, wrestling, if you're a fan of it at the moment, business is booming unless you're on the hard cam side of an AEW show.
Speaker: So just enjoy it.
Speaker: Enjoy what you enjoy.
Speaker: And I think at the end of the day, that can be said about anything.
Speaker: delve into the weeds of, oh, let's critique every part of something just to sort of justify why I do like it or I don't like it or why you should like it or you should not like it.
Speaker: You know, at the end of the day, let's just sit back and enjoy things and enjoy the beauty in this world, like David Tennant returning to Doctor Who and don't worry about the fact that he's going to be going again soon.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Anyway, that nerdy aside, thank you again for your patience and understanding the last few weeks.
Speaker: Again, we've got a couple of interviews in the can already, got another one on the way that's going to be recorded very soon.
Speaker: So, I'll be doing my level best there to make sure we got a little bit more of, you know, regularity with the episodes and go back to what we were doing.
Speaker: Now that a little bit of that, those issues there with work and whatnot have subsided.
Speaker: Thanks again.
Speaker: As always, if you're digging what we're putting down, please jump onto your preferred podcast provider.
Speaker: Give us a rating.
Speaker: Subscribe.
Speaker: That keeps all the boffins with the numbers happy and the algorithms and all that.
Speaker: Helps get the word, the good word out to many more people.
Speaker: And again, if you are really enjoying it, please give us a share on your socials.
Speaker: Let you
Speaker: Let your mates know at the water cooler.
Speaker: Let your enemies know at the water cooler.
Speaker: Just say, hey, you're not leaving this water cooler.
Speaker: Yes, I installed a water cooler just for this purpose.
Speaker: I ain't leaving this water cooler.
Speaker: And to you say, you're going to check out that Hey Pal, I'm Coachable because the guy, he's okay.
Speaker: But those guests, well, geez, they're tippy-to-top tier.
Speaker: But yes.
Speaker: Please share it.
Speaker: The more numbers we get, the more we can get, I guess, quote-unquote, investment into it, and the more that I can sort of put my front hustle aside and keep on working my side hustle, kind of get it to a 45-degree hustle.
Speaker: And, you know, if you don't do that, all good.
Speaker: I'm just very grateful that you've welcomed me into your not-so-weekly podcast earhole rotation.
Speaker: So that's that.
Speaker: Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll be back, I'm going to say next week, but, you know,
Speaker: Let's say next week.
Speaker: We'll be back next time there with a really good interview, actually.
Speaker: I'm really excited about sharing that one with you as well.
Speaker: So we'll see you soon on Hey Pal, Uncoachable.
