Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Kathleen Sebelius
114 Plays1 year ago
This is Move The Needle with Rob Kaplan, where we talk to people who lead, innovate, and inspire. Today on Move The Needle, Rob talks with former Kansas governor and Health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who has spent her entire life in and around politics.
Kathleen Sebelius is one of America’s foremost experts on national and global health issues, human services, and executive leadership. As CEO of Sebelius Resources LLC, she provides strategic advice to companies, investors, and non-profit organizations.
Sebelius chairs the board of Humacyte and serves on the boards of directors of Devoted Health, Exact Sciences, Included Health, and the Kaiser Family Foundation. She co-chairs the Aspen Institute Health Strategy Group and serves on advisory boards for the Dole Institute of Politics, Solera Health, Out Leadership, the Estée Lauder Foundation, Protect Our Care, the University of Kansas College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, and Zipline. Sebelius is honorary co-chair and an advisor to the National Cannabis Roundtable.
From April 2009 through June 2014, Sebelius served in President Barack Obama’s Cabinet as the 21st Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, where she worked to pass and implement the Affordable Care Act. At HHS, Sebelius managed 11 operating agencies, 90,000 employees in 50 countries around the world, and a $1 trillion budget. Forbes named Sebelius one of the 100 most powerful women in the world.
Having served as Governor of Kansas from 2003 to 2009, Sebelius is the first daughter of a governor to be elected governor in American history; her late father, John Gilligan, was Governor of Ohio. Time magazine named her one of America’s Top Five Governors. Previous elected offices include two terms as the Kansas insurance commissioner and four terms in the Kansas Legislature.
Sebelius earned a master of public administration degree from the University of Kansas and a bachelor of arts degree from Trinity Washington University. She is married to Gary Sebelius, a retired federal magistrate judge. They have two married sons, Ned and John, and four grandchildren.
#kathleensebelius #kansasgovernor #kansaspolitics #HHS #healthandhumanservices #womeninpolitics #secretary #womaninbusiness #politicscareer #humacyte #globalhealth #nationalhealth #sebeliusresources #universityofkansas #washingtonuniversity #movetheneedlewithkathleensebelius #movetheneedlewithbrobkaplan #samzeff #robkaplan #scottrichardson #ronelgolden
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Kathleen Sebelius
00:00:06
Speaker
This is Move the Needle with Rob Kaplan, where we talk to people who lead, innovate and inspire. I thought people went door to door and put up yard signs in the fall.
00:00:17
Speaker
thought everybody's dad got voted on, whether they were continuing their job or losing their job. And that became a very familiar rhythm in my household. Today on Move the Needle, Rob talks with former Kansas governor and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who literally has spent her entire life in and around politics. I first met Kathleen Sebelius in the early 2000s. She was the governor of Kansas.
00:00:48
Speaker
I was introduced to her through mutual friends. I came and visited her at the state house in Kansas, and I remember she served tea and cookies to me as if I were meeting in her house. No aides were involved. She did it all herself, and I was just struck how down to earth she was.
00:01:10
Speaker
and how grounded a person she was for being the governor of a state. Subsequent to that meeting, she asked me whether I would join the Kansas Healthcare Policy Authority, which was a seven-person bipartisan group that was tasked with examining the healthcare policy and practices for the state of Kansas. You've always been someone I've greatly admired as a public servant, but also a leader in our country, and so I'm thrilled to have you here today.
00:01:40
Speaker
Thanks, Rob. Always good to talk to you and we have known each other for decades.
Sebelius' Political Roots
00:01:45
Speaker
You grew up in Ohio and I think you may want to talk a little bit about your father was a business person, but ultimately after you were already gone to college and later on, he became governor of Ohio. You might talk about what was the experience of growing up as the daughter of a governor
00:02:10
Speaker
Well, actually his background, his father was the business person. My dad never was really very enthusiastic about business. And so disappointed his father kind of early in his career by becoming a teacher, which my dad, I mean, my grandfather did not think was a great.
00:02:26
Speaker
profession for a guy with four kids. And then when I was five, my dad actually ran for political office for the first time. So he served in city council. He then was a member of Congress. He then ran for governor. So most of my growing up time, my dad was actually
00:02:45
Speaker
in and running for various political offices and that's sort of what I thought every family did. I thought people went door to door and put up yard signs in the fall. I thought you know everybody's dad got voted on whether they were continuing their job or losing their job and
00:03:06
Speaker
So that became a very familiar rhythm in my household. He was not elected governor until actually I was in college and out of college, but I had been involved on his campaigns and working in elections for most of my life. And so it was a very familiar rhythm to me. I didn't really grow up as the daughter of a governor, but I certainly grew up as the daughter of a politician.
00:03:35
Speaker
And what brought you to the state of Kansas?
Journey to Kansas and Public Service
00:03:38
Speaker
I married a Kansan. I went to college in Washington, stayed in DC and worked a bit after college. And my husband, Gary Sebelius, was the son of a Kansas congressman of a different political party. Gary's dad was a Republican. My dad was a Democrat. But when I met Gary, he was at Georgetown Law School. And when he graduated from law school,
00:04:03
Speaker
He came back to Kansas and practiced law and about six months later we got married and I came to Kansas with him. Did you think at that point that you were going to do something related to public service? Well, I always thought I would be involved in some kind of public service, not necessarily as a candidate, but we were brought up in a
00:04:25
Speaker
house where both my parents strongly believed in social justice missions, believe that those of us who had resources and assets needed to find a way to give back. So volunteer jobs and figuring out ways that we could be involved in community projects were really a part of my virtues and values that were given to me by my parents. So when I came to Kansas, I
00:04:55
Speaker
quickly found the Democratic Party because I really didn't know anybody in Kansas, except my husband. I didn't have friends here. I didn't have a job here. And there was a small but kind of mighty Democratic Party group. And I just really became involved in politics as a volunteer, mostly to
00:05:17
Speaker
find some like-minded people, but I didn't ever, at that point, see myself as a candidate. I just thought I would be helping other people get elected to office and working on campaigns. In, I think, 1987, you ran for the Kansas House of Representatives where you stayed until the mid-90s. What caused you to run for office, run for the house in Kansas?
00:05:47
Speaker
Well, I was the director of the trial lawyers. I lobbied in the Capitol on their behalf. So I was very familiar with the legislative rhythm. We lived in Topeka, which is the capital city. During that time, I had two children and the woman who was our state representative who lived around the corner from me came to me and said, I'm not going to run again. You should think about running.
00:06:12
Speaker
What was really appealing about that idea was that, as I say, my kids were two and five. My husband was very busy in and out of trials. And frankly, I was really busy, and the wheels were kind of coming off the wagon at home. We were both traveling and busy with our work jobs. The Kansas legislature is a part-time legislator.
00:06:39
Speaker
and very busy for about four months in the winter, and then periodic committees during the rest of the year. And since I lived in the capital city, that seemed to me to be a very attractive option to do something I knew about, I liked the legislature, I liked the policy at the state level, but it also was an opportunity to spend a whole lot more time at home.
00:07:08
Speaker
You know, ironically, Rob, when some people look at my resume, they say, oh, you ran for the legislature in order to be governor. In many ways, I ran for the legislature to come home. And did you always think that you would do something more in state government? No. You thought that would be the end of it. Well, I didn't really know. I knew what being a governor was like because my dad had been governor and I thought that would be pretty terrific.
00:07:36
Speaker
What I knew from the outset when I started to run is I really didn't have a big desire to go to Washington. I had been in Washington, lived in Washington. My father had been in Congress. Gary's dad had been in Congress. That wasn't a goal of mine. So I think I was always focused. If I did something else, it would be at the state level. It both meant a balance of home life that made a lot of sense to me. But I also liked
00:08:03
Speaker
The policies at the state level, I liked being involved in education and healthcare. I wasn't really interested at the city level in fixing potholes and, you know, providing city services. Well, I thought that was important. That isn't what attracted me to government, but I liked the range of issues that you could deal with at the state level. And I really liked a base of operation being in Kansas.
00:08:27
Speaker
And then what led you into becoming Kansas Insurance Commissioner, which you did from 1995 to 2003?
Pioneering in Kansas Politics
00:08:35
Speaker
How did you come to run for that job and then take that job? Well, that was the craziest race I've ever run.
00:08:51
Speaker
This is the Ron Todd story, as told by newspapers all across Kansas. It's a story of fraud, deception, and abuse of public trust. Let's end this shameful chapter of Kansas politics. Elect Kathleen Sebelius, an insurance commissioner you can trust. I didn't know a lot about the insurance commissioner's office because in Kansas that office
00:09:18
Speaker
had never been held by a Democrat ever in the history of the state. But I figured it had to have something to do with health insurance. There were a whole lot of people who thought I had really lost my mind because it seemed like a very daunting task. I'd never run statewide. No Democrat had ever won the office. I didn't really know a whole lot about what the office did. And why had no Democrat ever won the office?
00:09:45
Speaker
It was a Republican stronghold. And frankly, the Republicans who had been in office in that particular office were financed by the insurance industry that they regulated and had lots of resources. So for 50 years, there had been some incumbent
00:10:05
Speaker
Republican who was well known, well financed by the insurance industry. And it really was not seen as a viable office for any Democrat to try and run for. I kind of thought, well, you know, one of the things that I thought could happen was to begin to try and if we could get enough money, if I could raise enough money,
00:10:29
Speaker
to get some sort of public message out. I thought most Kansans wouldn't like the fact that the insurance commissioner actually kind of work for the industry and not for them. You know, you could run as a consumer champion. So then we get now into the early 2000s and this is when
00:10:48
Speaker
you decided to run for governor. What went into that decision and what was it like to go from being insurance commissioner to running for governor and then becoming governor? So I had served two terms as insurance commissioner and the governor
00:11:05
Speaker
at the time was a Republican named Bill Graves. And he and I actually worked pretty closely together. Although we were different parties, we had a lot of similar interests. And he had me set up the children's insurance program in Kansas, even though it was under the jurisdiction of the governor. He said, you know, I think it more appropriately should be in your office. And we were
00:11:33
Speaker
pretty close colleagues. He was he had served also two terms as governor. And so in 2002, there was going to be an open seat for governor, which meant both the Republicans would have to feel the nominee and the Democrats. So that was kind of attractive to me. I also had a big decision as insurance commissioner, which kind of led to the next step, which was that
00:12:00
Speaker
a major national insurance company, Anthem Insurance, wanted to take over Kansas Blue Cross Blue Shield, the health insurance company. And Kansas Blue Cross Blue Shield had a market share of about 60% of Kansans had their policies through Blue Cross and Blue Shield. And I instinctively felt this was not gonna be a good idea for Kansas, but it became a real
00:12:30
Speaker
battle where the insurance company was determined to do this, their board had voted to go ahead. There was a provision in the law that said the insurance commissioner had an opportunity to look at the decision and make a decision go or no go on behalf of the state. And what I decided to do was hold a series of hearings across the state of Kansas. What I knew, Rob, at that point
00:12:57
Speaker
you know, having done this before when I ran for insurance commission and other times is you needed to get the people of Kansas kind of involved and engaged. You needed to let them know what was going on. So we started in Western Kansas and held about six hearings, inviting the public, inviting doctors, inviting hospitals, inviting others to come and
00:13:21
Speaker
But what became very clear was once Kansans began to understand what this might possibly mean, that they would no longer have a Kansas board of directors, that they'd be under some big umbrella with a big company, that there would be much less opportunity to have decisions made about what was good for the state or not good for the state, that we would be a small piece of this giant company.
00:13:46
Speaker
There began to be a groundswell. So by the time we got to the hearing in Topeka, there were about 1000 people who had showed up. And it was clear that there was some significant momentum. I ultimately turned down the merger. I was sued in court. The court upheld my authority as insurance commissioner to make this decision. And I then
00:14:12
Speaker
over the course of those months, I hadn't made the absolute decision to run for governor, but I decided, okay, this is something I need to do. So I made announced the Blue Cross decision and announced for governor. And I gather this experience, did it give you more confidence or gave you a bit more conviction that being governor, you could really make a difference? It did. I think it really helped. It also helped to hold, I mean, my race for governor was again,
00:14:42
Speaker
made a whole lot easier by the fact that I had run twice statewide, you know, contacts all over Kansas. I'd had to raise money all over Kansas, but also people knew my work. So it wasn't coming out of the legislative district in one part of the state. I, I really had a statewide base and that made the run for governor a whole lot easier.
Governorship and Bipartisan Leadership
00:15:04
Speaker
Kansas has had over the years, I remember over my lifetime,
00:15:08
Speaker
It's had, uh, occasionally a democratic governor, but it's, it's, uh, widely known as a quote unquote red state. What's it like to run for governor and then get elected governor of a red state? And you mentioned you had just held a job for eight years that had been predominantly held by Republicans in the past. Well, you learn early on how.
00:15:33
Speaker
to put together a coalition, first of voters who will vote for you. So even if, you know, you run for office as a Democrat, if you get 100% of the Democrats to vote for you, you lose. You must put together a coalition of people who then come together not because of their party registration, but because of their views or beliefs. So that's a challenge. I always had a majority Republican legislator as a governor. So again,
00:16:02
Speaker
doing my job required putting together people. And it wasn't always the same people. I could reliably count on Democratic votes from Democratic legislators, but I always had to find some Republicans. And it was an issue by issue. People were with me on one issue, and then they may flip on another issue. But it causes, I think, as a
00:16:30
Speaker
Remember the executive branch, you count votes, you know what people care about, you know what their districts are like. It requires some cajoling and convincing and coalition building as really a daily exercise. One of the things I noticed about you over the years
00:16:51
Speaker
you have the ability to disagree with people but to maintain the relationship with them how did you learn to do that and how did you how did you use that skill i would say that growing up watching my dad he was brilliant as a speaker and as a he had incredible ideas about
00:17:13
Speaker
you know, where the state of Ohio should be and how he could work to improve their lives. He really did not like retail politics. He didn't like, you know, shaking hands with folks and being, he felt it was almost intrusive to go up and, you know, engage with people one on one. He was much more comfortable at a distance. My father-in-law on the other hand had
00:17:40
Speaker
these incredible people skills. If you met him once, he would remember five years later where you met him, the name of your spouse and your kids. He had this incredible one-on-one people. He had a very difficult time relating to his children. He was always looking over their shoulder for the next person. He was ready to dive into a crowd.
00:18:06
Speaker
Both of them had really interesting skills and some really interesting flaws. And I think that was very helpful to me to make observations. I like people on a regular basis. I actually used to love campaigning. I loved door-to-door stuff just because it was the most interesting poll I would ever take. And I think just all of those skills, I really loved
00:18:31
Speaker
policy, I'd love to get things done, but I also was pretty pragmatic about if you can't move, if you can't throw a 30 yard pass, then I, you know, can you make a first down running three plays? I mean, I was always looking how to get down the field in a way that made progress and was true to my values, but it wasn't ever an all or nothing proposition. And I think that was very helpful.
00:19:01
Speaker
And I know as governor, you were very focused on the economy, on education, and particular access to healthcare, particularly affordable healthcare. How did you pick your priorities and how did you use the strategies you just described to make progress in those areas?
00:19:21
Speaker
Well, I had a friend who was a governor at the same time I was, and he used to have an expression that state government is really easy to understand. We educate, we medicate, we incarcerate. And other than that, everything else is chump change. And it's very true. That's how state budgets are organized.
00:19:43
Speaker
But also in Kansas, Rob, what we found out very early on is that the issues that were very personal to people that allow them, give them permission, compel them to cross party lines are those issues. So education funding, whether they were Republicans or independents, the vast majority of Kansans believe that tax dollars spent on education is a good thing.
00:20:11
Speaker
And that was a way to delineate my views from whatever my Republican opponent would say. Health care is another very personal issue, which is broadly supported by Kansans. Turns out that, you know, where you need to spend resources, time and energy also
00:20:31
Speaker
expansion of health care and funding of education were key issues that allowed people and compelled people to cross party lines. And then economic development is a must because none of this works unless you have a prosperous state, unless you have businesses who feel they have an environment that works and
00:20:55
Speaker
a regulatory framework that works in the state and hopefully a chief executive who wants them to do well and do successfully. So those things kind of keep the engine running. You were ranked in 2005 by Time magazine as one of the nation's top five governors. If you were giving advice, and I think you've already given some of it in your comments, if you're giving advice to another governor, what makes a great governor?
00:21:24
Speaker
It starts with having really talented people around you, uh, who know a lot more than you do in very specific subject areas. So a great secretary of transportation and economic development office that is looking statewide and globally aid, you know, an education commissioner who knows, and then letting them do their jobs and empowering them, but really encouraging them.
00:21:50
Speaker
And then trying to focus time and energy on what uniquely you can do as the chief executive. So spending a lot of time in the state, working not only business leaders, but I used to do a lot of visits in areas where a legislator was saying to his or her constituents,
00:22:14
Speaker
I really support education and yet coming to the Capitol and voting against bills every time. So I would go and just kind of do a little Rotary Club in that district and say, interestingly enough, that isn't exactly what's going on. I mean, so those kinds of things that you're, you know, you're using the
00:22:33
Speaker
platform of the office to really drive initiatives and policies and then telling people on a regular basis why you're doing what you're doing, how it's improving their lives, how it's improving the state. But I was always impressed how practical she was, non-ideological, but in particular how in touch she was with what was going on at the ground level in the state of Kansas.
00:22:58
Speaker
and how much of a real person she was.
Role as Health and Human Services Secretary
00:23:03
Speaker
Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius is Barack Obama's choice for Secretary of Health and Human Services. That's according to a White House source who says the president will formally announce the nomination Monday. Sebelius was an early supporter of Obama out on the campaign trail and she was a top surrogate to women's groups. Was that a hard decision?
00:23:21
Speaker
Well, I had a sort of interesting path to get to the cabinet. So I was very enthusiastic about Barack Obama as a presidential candidate. Early on, I was one of the very early governors to endorse him and had campaigned for him. And he very quickly, once he was elected,
00:23:43
Speaker
asked me to come to Washington. I need you there. I want you there. He had also designated Tom Daschle, former U.S. Senator Tom Daschle, who had played a key role in his campaigns and been very close to him. He designated Tom Daschle as the secretary of HHS. And as you say, I was I had two years left in my governor's term. And as I looked at the possibility of leaving the governor's office and
00:24:13
Speaker
taking a cabinet position and he made it very clear, you know, basically I could do whatever domestic position I wanted with the exception of HHS. So I, I said, no, I asked him to take my name out of the mix for cabinet offices said, I'll be happy to be in Kansas. And I said to him, look, you're, you know, happy to work with you on the ground. When I finish my governor's term in 2010,
00:24:40
Speaker
I think you will be successful. I think you're going to be reelected. You're going to need some people on your second team. So count me in. Fast forward two months, Tom Daschle ended up dropping out as a nominee. And the president came back to me and said, OK, if I offered you this job, would you take this job?
00:25:01
Speaker
And I said, yes, because I just knew he had said in his announcement speech that he wanted to work on a major health bill. This was something that I had spent a lot of time in the legislature as insurance commissioner, as governor, worked on health policy, health reform, trying to expand health access. And I thought this is an opportunity and a possibility that I just can't pass up. So then we get into, we'll talk about some of the, a couple of episodes.
00:25:31
Speaker
First, the Affordable Care Act and the effort to pass the Affordable Care Act. What did you learn from that very contentious, very partisan debate? Well, it was a really interesting exercise because it was quite different than the experience I'd had in Kansas, where at the end of the day, you really could put together a coalition of people on a bipartisan basis.
00:26:00
Speaker
newly elected President Obama had a big majority in the House of Representatives and had, I think, 56 Democratic senators. So he had enough Democrats to pass a bill with Democrats only. He wanted very much to have a bipartisan bill. And there were hundreds of hearings and tons of amendments along the way.
00:26:26
Speaker
It actually was, in context, a pretty rapid process. It was about 15 months from his swearing in date until the time he had a bill on his desk. So to pass a major health reform bill when 70 years of presidents had failed to do that was pretty remarkable. On the other hand, we could not get a single Republican at the end of the day to vote to
00:26:55
Speaker
be part of this legislation, even though many of them suggested dozens of amendments, which were throughout the bill. So I watched what was a pretty remarkable coming together, both of Democrats on one hand who said, all right, we're going to pass this, even if it's only Democrats only, this is a shot at something we've
00:27:17
Speaker
believed in and worked on for a very long time. And I watched a coalition and then a consensus bill in Republicans where one of their organizing principles, I would say from March of 2010, which is when the president signed this bill, was opposing health reform.
00:27:39
Speaker
So why do you think the Republicans, as you were sitting there, why do you think they made that decision? And is there, in hindsight, anything that could have been done to have brought them on board, do you think, now? Well, Robert, it's a question I've thought about a lot.
00:27:58
Speaker
one of the most clear statements was made early in this battle by then minority leader, Mitch McConnell, who said, my number one job is to make sure that president Obama does not have a second term in office. Yeah. And he made that declaration about four months into Obama's presidency. And
00:28:23
Speaker
What they knew was that two things I would say by the Republicans. One was this was President Obama's number one priority. And so trying to make sure it didn't pass, trying to make sure even if it passed that it failed and was never implemented was important to them. But also an underlying knowledge that if ever this bill, this framework were to go forward,
00:28:51
Speaker
it would be very difficult to take it away from people looking back. I mean, we did pauses in the Senate. We were optimistic that there would be some opportunity in the Senate to have people come aboard. And there were, you know, then Senator Olympia Snow and Senator Susan Collins and others who, you know, spent a lot of time in committees offering amendments and whatever else. I don't know what
00:29:21
Speaker
differently could have been done because at the end of the day, they basically had a party line, you know, you either are with us or against us kind of right line in the sand and I would have loved to have had
00:29:34
Speaker
A Republican or two vote for it, but boy, we could not figure out. I think President Obama would have mowed their grass or driven their carpools or done anything, but we should not crack that caucus. But I get the sense, even today, knowing Kathleen,
00:29:52
Speaker
that she likes being in touch with people on the ground and being able to take action to help solve problems when she sees them. Let's shift gears now and let's start with, you obviously must have had coaches and mentors through your career. Who were some of the great coaches and mentors that were very instrumental in your leadership? Well, I certainly go back to my
00:30:22
Speaker
upbringing in my family. I was in an all-girls school from the time I was in kindergarten through really through college and that was pretty unusual for
00:30:35
Speaker
A woman my age raised in the 50s and 60s because I was taught from a very early age that girls could do everything. We were the ballerinas and the jocks. We were the smartest in the class and the dumbest in the class. But you didn't have preset rules about what girls could do and what they couldn't do. That framework for me was extraordinarily helpful.
00:30:59
Speaker
sort of informed my life view. I would say my father and mother, but particularly my father reinforced that, that, you know, I could and should do anything I wanted to do. And he would be very supportive of that, not necessarily going to politics, but just this sense that I shouldn't be limited by what people were saying at the time was appropriate for women, that, you know, anything
00:31:26
Speaker
I wanted to do, I was smart enough and talented enough and should not have barriers. That's a very unusual message to have been given as a girl, as I say, in the 50s and early 60s.
00:31:44
Speaker
By happenstance had a very smart woman lawyer who was part of one of these early criminal justice groups when I got out of college. I mean, I'd say great teachers in college and those messages were reinforced. But I would say the next key mentor was this woman who ran the small association I worked for and taught me very practical things, how to write. She'd say, you know,
00:32:12
Speaker
Can you write a grant? No. Well, I'll teach you how to write a grant. Can you do this? No. But she wasn't rejecting my lack of skills. She was really mentoring me in a very practical way. When I got to the corrections department in Kansas, to say it was a hostile environment is really an understatement. There were a whole lot of guys there who really felt it was totally inappropriate to have a young woman who was working in this atmosphere
00:32:41
Speaker
The secretary of corrections at the time, the guy who ran the agency was a real champion for me. And his secretary, his real life secretary turned out to be the most knowledgeable person in the whole department. And she taught me a lot about organizations and offices and how to survive in a hostile environment. And then there were women along the way. I mean, I've had a chance to have some amazing women mentors and leaders when I
00:33:11
Speaker
First thought about running for governor, Ann Richards, the former governor of Texas, was kind of the godmother to those of us who were young, maybe governors, and taught us a lot and was involved personally in campaigns.
00:33:30
Speaker
people here in Kansas who knew politics inside out. So I've been really fortunate not to have people who had done exactly what I wanted to do, but who had skills and abilities and talents and expertise that I've just been delighted to take advantage of or
00:33:52
Speaker
hire them or befriend them or you know I think one of the things Rob that I've learned along the way is it's really helpful to know what it is that you do well and then be very candid about what it is that you don't do so well and find people who do those things and not fight with them not compete with them but actually bring them in and have them teach you get their help do it for you or you bet it's great
00:34:21
Speaker
If you look back, I've certainly had made my share a number of mistakes and say, boy, I'd like a do over this or that. What do you look back on and say, gee, wish I could have a do over on that one or my Lord, I can't believe I did that. I wish I could do that differently now. Well, I'd say in very practical terms, I mean, back to our conversation about the Affordable Care Act, I, I keep thinking if I had been, you know, more engaged, more sensitive, more,
00:34:51
Speaker
Thoughtful, maybe there could have been a more bipartisan effort.
00:34:57
Speaker
If I had known it was going to be passed only by Democrats, it would be also a much different bill. We would have made it much more progressive. Yeah, that's a good point. And there are still things being fixed. We made it the way it was to try and attract Republican votes. But having not attracted, I wish I could have gone back and reached out the whole day. Yeah, well, that's really interesting. That's really interesting. So it works kind of both ways.
00:35:22
Speaker
I made some pretty stupid votes when I was a legislator because I wasn't thinking of the votes in bigger context. Not votes that I regret.
00:35:34
Speaker
proud that I did not ever violate what I had as a pretty clear moral code. And in spite of people saying, oh, this is really going to be bad for you and they're going to come after you for that. I just felt I didn't care. But some of the things that I ended up being involved in were were pretty stupid and kind of bad policy. And I just should have been smarter. And the final thing I tried, but I didn't spend enough time, I would say,
00:36:05
Speaker
mentoring. I mean, one of the things I really believe in is that any woman, particularly who gets to an office, a position has to spend a lot of time and energy pulling people up around her. And I did that in every office that I held and in every position I held, but I wish I'd done more of it because I look around and there are these
00:36:28
Speaker
incredibly talented folks who just need one shot. They need one person to pay attention. And I should have spent more time doing that. So I've watched you be a very effective coach and mentor, including currently. I observe it now. What advice would you give to younger people listening to this podcast who want to make a positive impact in the world, build their careers, want to be
00:36:57
Speaker
are women who want to be leaders and develop their leadership?
Advice for Young Women
00:37:02
Speaker
Women, I think particularly younger women to have a sense of risk taking is really, really important. And I don't mean jump off the building kind of risk. I mean, put yourself out there. You bet. Put yourself out, ask for help, apply for a job that's a stretch goal because if you don't ever apply, you're never going to get it. You never know if you can stretch.
00:37:27
Speaker
look around as you feel yourself to be not sufficient to do any task or job. Look around at who's doing it and reevaluate. I used to do that with some of the jobs I would be looking at and think, how hard could this be? Look at who's got these positions right now. I mean, I can do that.
00:37:47
Speaker
I do think there's a risk taking element. And then I think find somebody who really believes in you. Find somebody who is doing what you think you might want to do or has a skill that you think you might want to have and ask them for help. I mean, at the worst, they are just flattered and say, I don't have enough time, but you're never going to insult anybody by saying, I'd love you to teach me this. I'd love your help doing this.
00:38:14
Speaker
Kathleen Sebelius, governor, secretary, thank you for your service and thank you for your leadership. It's been a pleasure talking with you today. Great to visit with you, Rob. Thank you for what you have done over your career and thank you for being a helper and supporter. You are one of the people who adopted me early on and that makes a difference. It's been a pleasure. Pleasure and an honor.
00:38:48
Speaker
Next time on Move the Needle with Rob Kaplan. So what was the cost of more notoriety, higher profile? The cost is, you know, it puts pressure on the culture, ethos, you know, standard, the why we serve. Rob talks with retired Admiral Wyman Howard, who led the Navy SEALs through an amazing era of growth and change after 9-11.
00:39:17
Speaker
That's on the next Move the Needle with Rob Kaplan. Move the Needle with Rob Kaplan is produced and edited by Sam Zeff and Scott Richardson, and I'm executive producer Rinalle Golden. We want to thank Michelle Brown and Zorik's team from Hello Studios for help with production and logistics. Do not forget to subscribe to Move the Needle wherever you get your podcasts and to Rob's YouTube channel. Until next time, this was Move the Needle with Rob Kaplan.