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Being a hater
56 Plays7 months ago
An extra long ep for you because we CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT BRIDGERTON, yearning and being the weird girls back at the room
We chat
- Embracing the Hater Identity and the dying are of hating
- Media literacy (lol)
- 'hater' mentality, being cool and making art
- The Influence of Iconic Haters (Amanda Palmer and Lady Whistledown,duh)
- The Impact of Capitalism on Women's Media
- Power of Community
TRUST YOUR CREATIVE SPARK (AGAIN) and learn to lead with your art first. ✨ CLASS OUTSIDE 3 month coaching container PLUS a retreat.
Thank you for listening to DO YOU EVER FEEL LIKE?
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DYEFL is produced by Do You Ever Productions
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you ever feel like being a hater? I don't know! Because to me, being a hater is like way of life. but da da da and da da know butdding da Hi, I'm the thinking man's boy genius, Phoebe. And I'm Jacques. And welcome to Do You Ever Feel Like?
00:00:32
Speaker
When we asked the questions that everyone was thinking, I know what to answer. Is that the entire thing, though? Oh my god, every time. It was clear that I was a hater, then. Yeah, here we go. Every time I'm anticipating what you're going to say, it's fabulous. Or thinking man's bow burn them. That's another one. These are all good. Anyway.
Noise Pollution and Cultural Critique
00:00:54
Speaker
What's with the The blowers, the trucks, the machines. I feel like we need a service. We need a service that goes around these streets and gives men knitting projects, you know, maybe a little crochet, a coloring book. Yes. Something. Why are you leaf blowing? What could there's possibly still to leaf blow? Again? No, what have you seen?
00:01:21
Speaker
Oh my god, I'm going to get her name wrong. Cate Blanchett, is that who it is? Who? Is it Cate Blanchett? That thing that you sent me all the time? I hate leaf blowers. Cate Blanchett? Who says that? Yeah, it's K-Punch up, but it's then there was this other, oh my God, what's her face? She's incredible. She's like a huge fashion icon. She lives in New York. She loves New York. Have you probably seen that where she's like, I don't like Los Angeles. I don't like the sounds. I don't like the water. I don't like the climate. I don't like that. And she's like listing. She's autistic. She's autistic. That's what I think when I hear people talk about that. I'm like,
00:02:01
Speaker
Do you you know which celebrity I'm referring to? Let me know. d Send us a DM because I can't remember. She's like very, very talented blonde. I have her face in my eye. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Anyways, you remind me of that person and of that clip because exactly what you just said, autism. Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker
Like when I say I hate leaf blowers, I get so distracted by them. People are like, oh yeah, they suck. I'm like, no, I don't think you understand. It's like the equivalent of someone taking like an egg beater to my brain when I hear them. Like they are the world, they should be illegal. And it's, it's so funny. I like got into like one of my groups the other day and everyone's like, how are you? And we're like, the leaf blowers at lawnmower. like you guys we could really start a revolution there's enough of us here we're persistent we're annoying enough we could really do some damage in Parliament honest let's rise it's not okay it's just not okay and I don't know what people feel like it's like oh like you can just do that and then i was like it's like why do people think that fireworks are acceptable we just had Victoria Day here I would love a firework if they were silent
00:03:16
Speaker
if they're quiet they're so freaking loud they're beautiful they're like lights in the sky is great silence like why are they loud it's so funny it's Simon's like Chinese side of the family too even bitches about them i'm like i thought you guys are supposed to love fireworks like isn't that what you guys do all the time and they're like absolutely not So irritating. Yeah, it's not like that. It's colonialism. We are the ones that want to put fire in the sky. Oh, no. Well, like Chinese, Chinese fireworks are like a whole thing. They're like a whole thing like dragon festivals and stuff like that. They're like a huge big deal. But
Firearms Anxiety and International Perspectives
00:03:53
Speaker
i they're like, they're not too loud. Too loud. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. um What do I know? What do I know about gunpowder?
00:04:01
Speaker
I don't know a thing. All I know is that every other, like I've seen fireworks in other places and I think it's like a legal thing. Like it's like not, do you know what I'm saying? Like yeah countries it's like it can't be that loud, but like here somehow it's, it's like, it doesn't matter. I just like don't understand how in a city it's allowed, like genuinely. So I'm like, I just feel like this in like an urban setting. It's not really a great idea for just like, regular, regular people to be lighting explosives off in the middle of a street. Like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm crazy. Sorry, I'm the crazy one here.
00:04:36
Speaker
Phoebe's the crazy one, Phoebe's the hater. Yeah, I'm the hater. This is a really wonderful transition to our conversation today. No, it's perfect. It's so good for many reasons. Fireworks, symbolism, like all the things. I just hate them. They're so fucking dumb. There's also like a reason, and I'm not saying fireworks are responsible for gun violence, but there is a reason why in the States, especially these really violent, you know, things happen on 4th of July or Memorial Day or whatever because Is it a gunshot or is it a firework? Yeah, like that is fucked like I'm sorry, but that's fucked It's so I I like I have this experience like every time I go down to the States where I'll say to somebody like I get very anxious when I am in America about like walking around with guns and
00:05:28
Speaker
The only other, like when I say that to, like I was talking to my friend the other day, and she lives in New York too, so she's like, you know, whatever. She's like, when I had said like, oh, you know, I'm going to like XYZ like location. Like I, and I'm like really stressed about it. And she's like, oh no, you'll be fine. And I was like, okay, but I don't live with that fear every single day and you are, and you're just having to rationalize it being okay inside of your head. And like the only other people that get it are not Americans. Like when I talk to people, even like in the UK or something like that, like whatever. People are like, this is like really stressful weird. I'm like, yes, I know. Yeah. I don't like it. And so it's like, yeah, I'm not even thinking gunshot or firework. I'm just thinking that sound is annoying and I don't like it. Yeah, exactly. And then I'm thinking, well, maybe I shouldn't leave my house because I'm not going to like, what? Yeah, I know. I know.
00:06:25
Speaker
Anyway, what are you watching right now?
Bridgerton Series Critique
00:06:33
Speaker
but time with do We have to talk about Bridgerson. We have to talk about Bridgerson. It's essential. You know what? It is essential commentary that needs to be discussed. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. That's how I feel. I'm on my second rewatch of it because Netflix has got me in a chokehold. That's taken you away. Wait, second rewatch of the third season or second rewatch of the of all? I've definitely watched season one multiple times. I don't know if I've watched season two more than once. Same thing with what was the Queen?
00:07:12
Speaker
What was that? What was it called? Queen Charlotte. Queen Charlotte. I really liked that show. I really liked that. I really liked that. And I feel like, okay, you can tell me how you feel about season three in a second, but I feel like they have lost some of that like majesty that they have had in other, like at least the first season and Queen Charlotte. Yeah, I agree. Like I feel like I'm watching like. This is what happens. right Yeah, a puppet show. Yeah, this is what happens. This is what happens where we have the Shonda land, whatever you want to call it. Like the thing that happens to Shonda land shows. Yeah. Where after her about the fourth season or about the fourth like install or whatever, like we start to lose the plot a little bit. Like we start to lose the point.
00:08:06
Speaker
and and and Like, you know, if you watch any other show, if you watch any other Shondaland show, Grey's Anatomy. you know Yeah, you have like grace tattooed inside your head. to How to get away with murder. Any of these shows, I'm a huge Shonda fan. Yeah. But even if she's not directly writing or show running, which she isn't, she didn't create the show. She just produces it. Shonda Lynn produces it. It's like this team of people ah around like three or fourth season, we start to go a little crazy, like wackadoo.
00:08:37
Speaker
and i Well, it's funny yeah, it's funny that you say Shonda because I think it's also a Netflix problem and I also think it's a like Look at what we can get like look we have all of these idiots trapped watching our thing and we're gonna make them pay for two months of this thing just so they watch it. ah These a little, these sep two, two step no. You can't tell me that that is anything but you want more of my money. You can't tell me anything but that. That's all it is, that's all it It's just capitalism. like Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, yeah, I can't remember someone was talking to me like, oh, they split it up for this reason. I'm like, okay, sure, that's the PR reason why they're doing that. But like,
00:09:20
Speaker
but You just want two months worth of like so many billions of people's of dollars or whatever. Just fuck off. What was I saying though? No, I think it's like it's like, oh, we have all these people watching this thing. Let's see how little we can do. And you like get away with it. You know what I mean? Like I think this happens to so many of their shows and like I really feel like we're seeing the AI-ification of television like it's like Okay, we're at that part of the production of it all cuz what was that movie that we were watching? I was like, you can't tell me that robots don't have their hands all over this thing
00:09:56
Speaker
I was gonna say. So Phoebe visited a few weeks ago when we watched The Idea View. The Idea View, yeah. With Anne Hathaway and whoever, boy. Nicholas Galatine. Is that who that is? i have no idea and you know who i thought he was when everyone talks about him you you already know this because this happened in real time i thought he was the hunky british guy from white lotus that's who i think everyone's talking about when they say nicholas got me what if it's like this like little twink but's who isn't gay oh and he's not gay and also
00:10:31
Speaker
That man is starring in some weird Netflix show as well, the one you're actually thinking of. Anyways, about a rich family who is in the weed business. Point being. Thrilling for me. Thrilling. We watched the idea of you, and we were like, oh my god, it's happening. like this crazy robot AI shit. That script, whatever. This is not about the idea of you, but I see it in, I see it in Bridgerton too. I totally feel like watching that movie and then watching Bridgerton season three, I was like, oh my God. It is happening. People do not talk like this. People do not look like this. This is insane. And I feel like what, okay. I was about to say not to be a total hater, but
00:11:17
Speaker
No, I'll be a total hater. I just feel like like that. Like I said, like the majesty of like the first like I feel like they kind of lost their own plot in a sense. Like I find like the background characters are better dressed than the main characters. I feel like they don't even know who the main characters are anymore. There's so many side quests and the side quests are like all put on the same level. Like I just feel like there's no like attention or focus. And it kind of sucks because I feel like Nicola Coughlin and Like, actually, you know what, just her, the women. I was about to say what's his face, but now I don't really feel grown. I literally don't even know his name. I don't know what his name is. Yeah, no, and I don't need to know a man's name. It's not my business. But I don't need to retain that information. Like, she's incredible. I think like a lot of like, and the woman that plays Eloise as well, that's her name.
00:12:06
Speaker
Oh god, I can't remember anyone's name anymore. We should've became more prepared. Casey? Cassie? We should've became more prepared. Cassie? I don't know. I think it was Cassie. Let's find out. She, as a human being, doesn't have social media, and I respect that. I always think it's amazing that actors have been able to like get that far in their careers without it, because I've heard from so many folks that like they're looking at follower counts when they're passing. Oh my God. I literally put her name together. Her name is Claudia Jessie, but I said Cassie. Cassie. That's right. Claudia Jessie. She's got a really great South London accent.
00:12:44
Speaker
I was watching some interviews earlier or the other, like the other day. Oh my God, she's, she's great. But yeah, I think like the women in the show are like really, I think people are very talented and I don't, and I even think like, you know, production's very talented. I just think we're just seeing like these billionaire dickheads, like what we're seeing across all industries, all arts industries right now, we're just seeing these billionaire dickheads take more money and cut more and like try to get away with it. I thought it was out anyway. yeah I also find the initial premise of friends to lovers absolutely unfathomable. Being friends with a man, I'd never. Okay, weren't you friends with... Whatever, I'm not getting into this.
00:13:31
Speaker
Never mind. Yes, i I hear you. I also think... Okay, so clearly, if you're listening to this, like I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. yeah If you don't want to listen to Bridgerton for the next. I don't even know what to tell you. Get out. like Absolutely, spoilers I had. But also, i don't know I can't imagine that it already hasn't been spoiled. I think I haven't watched Bridgerton. Yeah. I think I i literally watched it like the first 24 hours that it came out. I didn't get to do that, which was like whatever. But OK, so yes.
00:14:06
Speaker
I think what is interesting too, and like I don't know if this is true for like every other production season, the marketing in the PR and the like all like season three, it's like heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy. And it's probably because it's been such a success up to this point and because of like the plot line. We're going to reveal, you know, Lady Whistledown gets her lover. Like there's something interesting about that. We all know this is the first season where the audience knows if you haven't read the book, like what's actually going to happen, which I think is like an interesting thing to you. And like, I feel like maybe that's why I wasn't feeling the sense of like majesty or the sense of like anticipation in the same way, because I know what's going to happen.
00:14:50
Speaker
But I don't think that's enough of an excuse for the lack of lust. Oh no, there's something else going on in that show. Because I think you can do that as somebody who loves to watch the same thing over and over again. I will read about a movie before I go and see it. Yeah, there's just no excuse. I don't think that's enough. I do feel like the like switch between like potentially finding somebody cute and like fingering the carriages like that was a rocket ship. It was only four hours. we thought There was no journey. There was no journey I went on.
00:15:31
Speaker
No. and and And I feel like the journey wasn't even set up previously enough in the and the other seasons. Yes, like the last two seasons, you could have been doing this 100%. Yeah. And when we think about like a season, right? When we talk about like the season and the time has started, right? That's a summer. That's like a spring. Yeah, it's supposed to be like their spring. It's like three months or something. Yeah. It's like, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this timeline. And on top of that, Well this is what I was going to say about production is like I feel like in this season we're just starting to hear about like all of these ways that they tried to like modernize Bridgerton. Like there's like costume designers are talking about how the costume team did an interview and they were talking about how
00:16:19
Speaker
they tried to keep all the silhouettes of the time, of like regency, but none of the fabric, color, like design, embellishment, et cetera. Or like how like even the like the hair and the makeup of season one, like Jonathan Bailey in season one looked like he was plucked right out of Pride and Prejudice. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. like at like like fucking Yeah, Francesca looks like she has TikTok. She's got a fucking makeup filter on. like it's like It's so distracting looking. It's so distracting. It looks like I'm watching an Instagram. like You know what I mean? like like thats That's what I think was feels like such this huge leap.
00:17:02
Speaker
and like Well, and I think that's getting more modern, like it's weird, yeah. I think it's really unfortunate too because like unless like I said like it it used to be this thing in like 80s and 90s movies where like you would look at historical costuming and like background characters would always be dressed and like really like like weirdly wonderful like historically. And I don't even think people need things to be historically accurate. You just need to sell the illusion enough. Right. And now when you look at Bridgerton, there's like literal shots where I'm like, where am I in time and space? Like quite literally, like it doesn't even look like we're in any kind of reality. Everyone's veneers are extremely distracting as well. People that I mean, the veneers in Hollywood are absolutely fucking crazy. Like people with straight ass fucking teeth getting veneers.
00:17:52
Speaker
It is like, and then like even down to the man, like how man you like, like manufactured or like glossy the like Netflix Bridgerton be is like the low, like it didn't use to look like that. You yeah know what I mean? Like it's, but it's like everything is so yeah. It's like, it feels so glossy. yeah And i don't I am like, I don't like it. I don't like it. Why when Penelope is in a fucking carriage and her fucking dress is getting pulled up, is there not a little dirt on her hem? Like, can you give me some reality, please?
00:18:33
Speaker
And I know that like, I know that Bridgerton was never so intended. It was supposed to be like obviously this like cut and paste historical accuracy. We're supposed to be in like a fictional place that like expands time and space, right? But even the rules of that world that you have set up previously are being broken. You're not following. You're not following. Yes, you're not following. And that's what's distracting. and That's what's distracting. I know. I know. I know. It's so distracting. Yeah, I really do think like that's what we're kind of seeing. Because I always think I remember when like the big writer strikes were going on.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I was like, the unfortunate thing about the these these big, I mean, it wasn't just writer strikes, right? It was everything. It's like, we don't see the effects of that right away, right? like we So it's like kind of hard for us to understand. We only see them like a year or two later. And that's what I feel like we're kind of in right now. like We're seeing the effects of like what was in production over, and obviously, not probably the season was written also a couple of years ago at the same time. but like You know what I mean? like I think we're just starting to see like these changes in like every single creative industry.
00:19:45
Speaker
yeah and i just like yeah It sucks. like it sucks and i I don't know. i mean i Ultimately, I do believe that like artists, artists always win and artists always conquer. like I do really believe that. i I have to believe that if I like want to believe in just change in the world. but like
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. And like i to me, it kind of sucks too, because I really do. I think like Nicola Coughlin is like, slay.
Bridgerton Fandom and Audience Engagement
00:20:15
Speaker
Oh my god, the fact that that woman is 37 years old. I know. I know. Go snatch her face off of her. I'm still technically in my 20s for a couple more months. Actually, Monday is my half birthday. It's so exciting. OK, so I had no idea before this season how much of a fandom, like how much of a world this is, like the Bridgerton world. Have you seen the Bridgerton Bulls? Now I have. Oh I can't believe you have. My algorithm knows I like Bridgerton so now all I'm doing is being served like pollen content. There's like one like every quarter in Toronto. That's crazy. Yeah. Like this is like a whole thing. There are people who like
00:21:02
Speaker
and and and and And then all this content is being made and there's just all these Bridgerton fan accounts and like my algorithm has totally figured out that I like this. You're a white woman in her 30s. Serving me all the things about Bridgerton, exactly. And I'm like, I find it so insane. Okay. So Nicola put this on her Instagram, but the 2.3 billion views. of season three and how they're like, it was like in the millions for season one, season two and queen of Charlotte. Have you seen this? Have you seen this billion 2.3 billion people have watched season three of Bridgerton.
00:21:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, you're right. 2.3 billion minutes. 2.3 billion views. Minutes. It's not views. Oh, estimated minutes. 2.3 billion. Watch time. Yeah. That's wild. That is crazy. And you have all of this content of folks, you know these like influencers or these like you know comedians online, whatever. Like making these videos of just watching the carriage scene over and over again So I'm sure just the last you know, two minutes of that show also been viewed separately and I don't I'm really I'm not understanding the fascination with the carriage scene. I have my own feelings about sex seats that' sex and I have my own feelings about specifically Colin and Penelope and like I think
00:22:34
Speaker
For the previous seasons, I did not i was like not taken away by the sex scenes. I was like, this is weird. This person is a model. i This is like feels very, like I don't like this. There's something relatable about two you know not thin, beautiful people. like Do you know what I'm saying? like In a carriage, getting it on. And I am taken away by that. But the fact of the matter is that like people are obsessed with this carriage scene. And it makes me, I'm very confused by it because I'm like, Are you all not having, are you all not having sex? Which is true. Well it's true, yeah. Which is true. but also Well the children aren't having sex. The children, I should not say that. Well maybe it's a good thing. Like Gen Z isn't having sex. and That's like a moral panic or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. And apparently those people are supposed to be young, which you know more about because you're reading the books, but
00:23:28
Speaker
No, they're supposed to be older. They're supposed to be older than they are. Oh, they're supposed to be older. Yeah, they're like late 20s, early 30s in the books. But they're supposed to be like 19 and 20 in the show. Like, Penelope's supposed to be 19. And she's all like, I'm nearly on the shelf. And I'm like, girl, what? I'm so confused. I know. Well, that's why she's 29 in the book. And she's like, I'm a spinster. And I'm like, hell yeah, girl. ah and you um like That's believable, but like the fact I don't know that's very confusing to me Yeah, but then I'm like people are so into this courage scene and I'm like, are you guys I don't? What's going on there? Why do we think this scene is so hot?
00:24:10
Speaker
I don't know I mean I loved it and I thought it was hot but not watching it over and over and over again hot like no I don't understand it could have been hotter if I was given more fucking yearning quite frankly yes like I didn't it wasn't enough for me like there were not enough stolen glasses no no there was not enough glances No. To me, like the sexiest thing in all of cinema, I think this is a question on Brett Goldstein's podcast where he talks about movies. He's like, what's like like the hottest thing in a movie? It's the hand flex in Pride and Prejudice. Obviously, everybody knows this. Everybody knows this. and What are you guys fucking around, playing around with? There's a template sitting there waiting for you.
00:24:58
Speaker
Also, I was thinking about this this morning. Getting figured in a carriage is a dangerous game. A slip of the finger in the wrong direction. It's over. You're dead. You're getting impaled. You're getting impaled. Also, to hear them talk about filming that scene is fucking hilarious. Of like, we're on a sound stage and people are just literally moving. That's really funny. You know what I think about when I think about fingering in movies is in the favorite, Olivia Colman was putting wet sponges into shock. And like, so when they like, they end up for a dress, they were like, Oh my God. Women, yes right women, women, women, women live in cinema, women in STEM. Really?
00:25:44
Speaker
Yes, exactly, exactly. What is this theory? Is it that the freaks, the fat, ugly people, which first of all- Well, people don't know that freaks fuck. They don't know that freaks fuck. No, they don't like that, or they like it. They like it, actually. They like it, yeah. You know what I'm saying? First of all, we can also talk about the fact that This is a whole other looking face, but like these people are supposed to be like the outlier, like they're supposed to be like the weirdos of Bridgerton, like Colin is like not hot, but it's hot. Yeah, two objectively gorgeous people. What the hell is happening? There's balloons behind you.
00:26:27
Speaker
Whatever, we have to move on. Apple really likes that we're talking about this. Two objectively beautiful people are supposed to be like the ugly ones, which is so strange. Also... Well, he's not supposed to be ugly. She's supposed to be ugly. Yeah, she's supposed to be ugly. And how strange it is for a man to love an ugly woman, when really we all know it's the other way around. Women are gorgeous angels. Men are hell devils. Yes. And look, I am all for people seeing themselves in this relationship. I'm all for women being empowered that a fat girl is getting sexed up in a carriage. Fingered. I fucking love that. Yes, let's go. Fat girls get fingered. Hell yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
like empowerment. But I'm also like, I'm also like, this is saying something, right? Like people's reaction to this scene and to this couple in a way that has never happened in previous, you know what I mean? Like seasons is saying something about what we are usually consuming, right? As an audience, which is like extremely, you know, extremely beautiful people. And again, the Luke and Nicola are extremely beautiful people. Oh my God, I remembered his name. but A man's name in your brain? But like all these other seasons, you've got like literal but like runway models. Do you know what I'm saying? You have Jonathan Bailey, you have Phoebe, you have whatever, like you know what I'm saying? And again, doesn't mean those people shouldn't have sex on camera. All I'm saying is that that's what we're using. I mean, I don't mind watching them have sex on camera. I'm not bothered by it. They're beautiful, but we're usually watching this, right, this like stereo Eurocentric white supremacist ideal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, and so people are charged for common and, and Penelope. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, girl, get your life somewhere else. Like, ah can you just, can you expand your, like.
00:28:23
Speaker
yeah well viewers yeah of sex I think porn are you watching what like yeah like there are people out here
Media Aesthetics and Criticism
00:28:31
Speaker
like it's confusing to me you need to watch more ugly people in porn I think I said this the other day people don't know like I remember like This is because we were musical theater kids. And like, if you're a musical theater kid, you know, you know who's fucking? And the most musical theater kid camp.com musicians, the band, the band, they're all over each other. They're all over each other. And they're backstage people. And I think that's also what we're getting. They are the glossy girls that you think you're a human. No. Could tell a tale or two.
00:29:10
Speaker
ah costume shop. I was I was I did I did backstage I was I was yeah exactly you know I think I've had many a journey I think there's a reason that so many theater pick folks like Bridgerton because it's like we're it's like we're in the theater yeah we're like you know what I mean like and I just I'm very excited for all of it I apparently this mirror scene is a thing is that in the book or I don't know yet, I'm gone right now. I might be spoiling things, but if you watch any of the fans content. Yeah, everyone's talking about this mirror scene. You know what? And you know what, Nicola, good for you. And she was like, this was empowering. I took off like all my clothes. I'm like so excited to show my whole body. like Yes, bitch. I'm so ready for it. I want some shaft, though. Give me a shaft. Where? Give me a Dawn.
00:30:02
Speaker
Why? Give me a dong. I don't need to see another man's ass. No. I also don't need to see another man's like perfectly tanned, shaved, Ken doll ass. No, no. Get it out of there. I want at least the upper third or the lower third. I'm not even asking for the whole thing. No. No. Give me a little shaft. Give me a little dong. Give me a little side ball for all. Something. I'm happy. But I want equity. I want equity for all these lady of the night like boobs I keep seeing that are just out.
00:30:42
Speaker
I just saw something on social the other day that was like, we need to talk about, and it's so funny when people- No, no, don't stop it. We don't need to talk about anything. In fact, you and I should be stopped. We need to talk about how the men in Bridgerton like go to sex workers basically. And then like- We need to talk about how men are horrible to women. Okay, you want to have that conversation? You want to have that conversation? Yes. You want to talk about how men are horrible? Okay, we can do that. Okay, we can have that conversation. But I'm like, again, I'm like super confused by this like line we're trying to have in Richardson of like, we're not in history, but we are in history. But like, men,
00:31:28
Speaker
For as long or especially men in that standing right like yeah in those like groups for like tale as old as time That sex workers taught men how to have sex for their wives like that's like what like women taking care of women Yeah we will up yeah like oh truly like like that's what that has always been and so I mean this still happens right now today right now it happens right now today and so the fact that Bridgerton for the Bridgerton on Netflix is like having you and again this is kind of how I felt about the Barbie movie as I was like we if you're walking away from the Barbie movie like
00:32:04
Speaker
I don't know, like empowered or something. Like if you're walking away from the Barbie movie, a changed person, you have issues that you need to go look at. That's how I kind of feel about Bridgerton. I'm like, if you're excited about seeing a fat person on screen having sex, you've got some things that you need to go work out. You can just come to my house. I will show you my boobs. It's fine. Like, if you are, like, you need to expand your friend's circle. If you engaged about just being fat boobs today. Yes. If you're enraged about the idea that men are, have been, you know, using sex work or not, that's not the right word, using paying for it. What's the, what's the right word? I guess both. I mean, going to sex workers. Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
yeah Whatever. And then like, I just like turn off your television and read something. Like that's, you know what I'm saying? I think that's another thing. Talk to the person next to you. because i Guess what? Guess what? They're fat, and they fuck. They're fat, and they fuck. I mean, I think a lot of this. Were they visited a sex worker? What is this? I don't know. I think a lot of this is kind of reminding me around the conversation that people were having around the colorblind casting that they've kind of become known for, whatever, now. Because I think what people are getting at, even when you're talking about race or when you're talking about sex work or whatever these things are,
00:33:30
Speaker
it's like Okay, you can't have your cake and eat it too, you know? It's like, where do we live? Like, do we live in like this post-racial, like, divide, like, heaven? Or do we live? And because it's like, they do both. They do both, and you know? They do both, and they flip back and forth. And it's like, are we post-racial? Or, and even in the first season, it was like a thing with the Hastings household, like, breaking into society for being a black family, or like, stepping into society for being a black family. And it's like, what?
00:34:01
Speaker
Like, I don't understand. I'm sorry, I'm so excited about talking about Bridgerton. Is there anything we'd like? I'm really all for, I'm really all for Violet getting her garden watered. Like, let's go, Violet. That's really funny. Oh my god, you are such a prude. That's the funniest thing you've ever said. Oh my god.
00:34:23
Speaker
Her garden watered, that's like the most like, waspy shit. That's a reference to Bridgerton. That's a reference to Bridgerton. They say it in Queen Charlotte. She's like, I'm ready to have my garden watered. Like, my gardens are a bloom. That's what she says in the art museum to Lady Tanberry. God, that's so funny, Jacqueline. I'm literally repeating a reference. I would never say that in any other circumstance. I don't believe that for one second, but okay. Okay, I'm really, I'm awful about the relationship. I know, right? Ew. Ew, gross, disgusting. i I'm really ready for that, and I have a theory.
00:35:06
Speaker
yeah i'm ready for how messy that's gonna be i have a theory that francesca's love interest the young block the yeah who i don't francesca you're not gay and i it's making me mad like yeah you are just and we're going with a whole internet just was like she's autistic doesn't want to go out she doesn't like loud music she just wants to play the piano and i mean you gay Well, you can't be gay and autistic. Exactly. No, you can't do both. Even though I watched this season, I watched an interview that was like, Bridgerton is going to be queer at some point. And I was like, OK, but I think that man that likes Francesca is the son of the man that likes Violet. I think there. Oh, that's a good theory. That's my theory.
00:35:59
Speaker
i don't know somehow I don't know enough to, because that's Lady Danbury's brother, right? does she has She had an interaction with her like supposed nephew then? No. That's what I'm wondering. I think something happened with that. Because on the press tours, they are always together when they interview. There's something on there. Okay. Slay. Anyways, that is what I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm interested in. Yeah. I I think they should have separated those seasons. like I think if you wanted to have the Colin and Penelope thing, like you should have just done it. I think they got so distracted. I think they're like trying to do a bunch of things. There's so much going on. Yeah. There's just like so many plots. and like
00:36:45
Speaker
Kate um and what's his face? or do like i just We always have an introduction to the previous couple in the beginning of each of the seasons because I went back and watched season one and season two since watching season three and season two You're right. Do you know how many fucking episodes there are of Anthony and Kate just staring at each other? Yeah, staring at each other. Just like, or like ending up in the same place but not kissing. In that sex. That's good. Almost kissing. Like, yeah. Do you know how many? There's like three or four declarations of passion and love. Not one.
00:37:21
Speaker
in a carriage. You know what I mean? Even though I have heard, again, through these like weird things that have now been sucked to you on the internet, that that there's like a seat there's like an episode in the second half where it's basically just Colin and Penelope having sex the entire time. I mean, I'm excited for it, but I just want a little bit more glances, okay? Yes. Can we just have some more stolen glances? I'm just a gal. And again, I highly, I deeply, I think there's so many women who deeply, deeply, deeply relate to Penelope. I do. I'm a weird fat girl. Like, you know what I mean? Well, and I think, oh, absolutely. And it's like I was, I think who you are, like, like, yeah, I was a weird, ugly, fat girl.
00:38:02
Speaker
until I wasn't one day. and like that I think so many people relate to that story, right? Yes. Whatever that is. so it's but it's so it's yeah it's like well But this is what we get. You know you get AI. It feels unfair. It feels unfair. Yeah. Well, that's an hour on Bridgerton. OK, sorry. well We've done them. We've done, I think we've done pollen. I think we've done them a disservice to have them be in this weird fucked up season of production wise, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, part two, I guess, incoming. I'll watch that because I'm a little sheep.
00:38:54
Speaker
I'm going to go back now and watch Queen Charlotte because I watched only one, two, Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte. I really liked Queen Charlotte. It's really good. Yeah, it's really good. and It's really good. I love a mental health storyline.
00:39:11
Speaker
He's crazy, but he's hot. Exactly.
00:39:17
Speaker
me also me the woman is the only one you can tame the crazy man with her magical pussy with her gentle touch yeah oh my god yeah best one best one by far Yeah, it it was good. Okay, I have like a little creative confession to make.
Creative Process and Artistic Systems
00:39:36
Speaker
I thought as for being a creative business person, I could not have a system because I am a, you know, hater. I could not have organization. So I am really kind of famous in my friend group and my life and my partnership with Jacqueline for being the person that buys all of the ingredients for the cake.
00:39:57
Speaker
puts them out on the counter, maybe I'll like make up some cake cake batter too. I won't even get that far. And then I fully get distracted by something else that's pretty and shiny, like a cute new idea. And forget about it. And I felt for a really long time that because I am, you know, squiggly brain, because I'm neurodivergent, because I'm autistic, um because you know executive dysfunction and like also you know I'm a Sagittarius and like I don't drink enough water whatever whatever the thing is whatever the thing that we want to tell ou ourselves it's like why we can't do something I thought that systems were not for me I thought as for being a creative business person I could not have a system because I am a you know hater I could not have organization and what I've really learned about my creative process is that actually that's like not a bad thing but like pulling all of the ingredients out on the counter
00:40:49
Speaker
isn't a bad thing. It means I'm impulsive. It means I'm spontaneous. It means I get really excited about something. It means that I'm passionate. It means that I'm i'm really good at starting. I'm really good at starting. It doesn't mean that I'm like lazy, crazy, stupid, dumb, or like, my ideas are bad, or like I'm not enough, whatever the thing is. It just means that I need a little bit more support. to keep going. I need a little bit more support to like pay attention to what I'm doing. When we get clear about our creative process, what we're actually understanding is a system. The thing that makes me feel like I'm not good enough isn't me. It's other people. It's
00:41:29
Speaker
you know, capitalism, its systems. I've been taught my entire life a bunch of shoulds. I've been told by, you know, Instagram ads, that there is a specific way to do something right. And because I'm not doing that, that's why, you know, my cakes are never baked. Why I'm like, you know, an incomplete finisher, so to speak. But when I give myself the space and freedom and time to follow an idea the way that I want to, all of the sudden I can publish sub stacks. All of the sudden I can submit essays. All of the sudden I can run a business. All of the sudden I can write a sales page. All of the sudden I can record the pod. All of the sudden I can make a real, right? Like I can make things that actually follow my idea. When we get clear and when we start to to trust our creative practice and become a well-resourced artist,
00:42:16
Speaker
That is where, you know, we can shine, we can thrive, we can live. As two neurodivergent business owners, we knew that the status quo didn't work for us. So we created something that did, and we want to share that with you as well. but So you come join us for class outside three months, you know, to bring your like little spark of idea, your, you know, all of your cake ingredients pulled out on the counter, or maybe you need some help going and figure out what ingredients to go and get into like a real life thing, a real fully realized baked cake. And then we have our September retreat dates that are open now as well. I would love for you to join us. We're bringing 10 magical, wonderful, weird,
00:42:58
Speaker
creatives with us haters, if you will, ah for three nights, four days in the Catskills. It's going to be a wonderful time. I'm really excited to do nothing with you and to make and to create and have an understanding of our own creative processes and, you know, make the world a rock and roll place. If you want to learn more, there's more information down below, or, you know, you slide into our DMs on Instagram, wherever the heck you want to connect, because we're really excited for you to join us. Okay. But the bisexuals love this season. Why? I don't know. There is many as a community. I have some as a community. I have I have I have some theories about this. And like, cuz of like, I mean, the hair. Why? Okay.
00:43:52
Speaker
So I have many theories. There's like, Many like by like it's very specifically like bisexual stand for Bridgerton like for pollen Accounts, it's I don't know what it is
Bridgerton's Appeal to the Bisexual Community
00:44:06
Speaker
your algorithm. There's so weird It's so fucked then there's also so then I was like what the fuck is this and so then I started to google There are reddit's about this there are reddit's Okay, so I have many there first of all. I also didn't realize Yeah, Phoebe, people really, really love this couple. They think they're the hottest Bridgerton couple so far. I was going to say, we are on very different internets because that's not what I've seen. What is your internet telling you? People are like, flop. Really? Flop. OK. This is great because so do you ever feel like being a hater?
00:44:48
Speaker
I don't know. Because to me, being a hater is like way of life. It's like my operating system. I was born. I was put on earth to be a hater. And my algorithm knows this about me. I don't know. does Maybe your algorithm doesn't know this about you. That I'm a hater? Or that you could be? what so I Okay. I feel like I agree with you that there is a there is ah part of me that wants to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. Don't even feel like that is it. I just feel like it's- That's not it. Yeah. No. That's not what being a hater is.
00:45:39
Speaker
Yeah. Being a hater is a way of life. How do you define being a hater? It's a way of life. OK. Yeah. It's what I believe is a dying art form. Being a hater is about being cool. It's about standing at the back of the room. It's about being like not knowing better than everybody, but seeing. It's about seeing. It's about seeing clearly what What's actually going on? That's what being a hater is. Yeah, I'm a hater. Yeah, you're a hater. I'm definitely a hater. Yeah. Yeah. If we're talking by those terms. Yeah. Which again, like my algorithm, where's like, doesn't understand that about me. Your algorithm is like, like that of like, like a 40 something year old woman's.
00:46:33
Speaker
But yeah, that's because I am a 40-something-old. I might actually pay put it around like late 50s. Yeah, 60 years old? Yeah. Yeah. It's quite fascinating to me. Mm-hmm. Well, it's weird though because sometimes i see I'll see things that you never see no and that are like that are like not even like 60 year old Jacqueline that are like things that you would actually be quite Like interested in but you're like I've never seen this before now Which is weird no and then I feel like we like very similar things I know but I
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah, our tastes are definitely very similar, but like where we go on the is I don't interact with things. I things. I am such a passive internet consumer. i i don't The most I do is share something in a message. I don't like things. I don't comment on things. you don't I don't like things. I save them and I share them. That's funny. This is always really funny to me when people are bitching about like like algorithms and stuff like that. Or just like, oh, I didn't get enough likes on stuff. I'm like, well, how do you use the internet?
00:47:48
Speaker
like Are you commenting all of the time? This is why this is why like whenever I try like whenever I have those feelings I'm like, you know what chocolate you don't do this for other people.
Media Consumption and Social Pressure
00:47:58
Speaker
I mean I do that for like my friends No, but whatever but it's like think about what moves you to like a thing. Exactly. Right? Exactly. Yeah exactly So maybe this is part of being a hater maybe and I feel like I might accidentally be describing like insult culture
00:48:14
Speaker
Being a hater is actually very specifically for the girls, I would also like to say. The girls gays and gays. I think that's like what being a true hater is about. And I also think like- Is this like not liking anything? Is this like not being able to have fun? Is this like not joy? Okay. Is this like- That like really irritates me when I say things in the world and people are like, you don't know how to have fun. I'm like, actually, I have a yeah lot of fun. I have a lot. I have. more fun than all of you. Are you so much fun? But I think it's like, I think being a hater is about like, yeah, like when I meet like the truth like the truth, like what is what is like, can we be honest here instead of just like gaslighting ourselves? Like to me, gaslighting myself is not fun. And like, I think being a hater, reason why I think it's a dying art form is I think we're just kind of like, told what to like, right now in like our media is so our media landscape is so fucking vast, like,
00:49:13
Speaker
The amount of sub stacks I'm so subscribed to is insane. Do I read all of them? No. My TBR list is absolutely wild. And then I have my TBR list on my library app. And then I have my TBR list on like my holds or like, you know, my pre-orders from like my bookshop or whatever. And then I have like my letterbox account with my like the things that I want to watch next. And then like, I open up my phone and I scroll and then there's YouTube and I like, you know what? There's so much fucking shit to consume. And I think yeah we are kind of lost in this like we look like the next thing. Like what? Oh, what's the thing that we're all watching right now? And then because the because there's so much to consume, the stakes of having a bad time are so high. And I don't even think it means we're like watching
00:50:07
Speaker
good things we're just watching safe things and I think being a hater is even about watching something quote-unquote good or something quote-unquote bad and just being honest about it and I think that's not the way that we're consuming anymore I think we're consuming in a way that we're like I like I don't think we're like enjoying the things like never gonna get like I don't think we're enjoying art I think we're just like no Yeah, well, this is about status. I think that that is what I find really interesting about the consumption of media now. Even the latest, oh my god, that series where this woman takes us through her narcissistic abusive, that was a while ago on the internet, relationship. Have you heard of this? Oh, that woman, yeah, the TikTok. Yeah.
00:50:56
Speaker
or like a Taylor album drops or Virgerton or like whatever the thing is, it's about like, how fast can you consume something? And then like what value or status is that giving you? Yeah, not even necessarily about like, or like how cool are you yeah necessarily even about the thing that's being made? Mm hmm. You know? Yeah, and I think like, actually, I think like Taylor Swift is like a funny example of this, because like, everyone has an opinion about this woman, either you're a Swifty or you're not, you know? And like, I, I just like never got on the Taylor Swift. Oh, I couldn't care less.
00:51:35
Speaker
Only because like that wasn't interesting to me that week in like the sixth grade or something like that. And like I feel like I missed the bow. you know like I have no other opinions. like I'm like, hell yeah, girl. Love your bangs. Find an impressive if your red lipstick stays on all the time. Not me. Don't know why you're dating that man. Don't know why you're dating that man. Don't know why you're dating that man, but I would say that to all women, so. Oh, no, a thousand percent. That's what I mean. Yeah. um These are all the only opinions. Yeah. And it's like I feel like I feel like if I say to somebody, if someone talks about Taylor Swift and I'm like, I don't know, that's like a slight, you know, like I am perceived as a hater in that moment, which is not true. Being a hater is much more complex. Complex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what's hard for me is I'm like,
00:52:28
Speaker
What is it? like What is it? like I feel oftentimes like I can't enjoy a single damn thing, like nothing. like I can't enjoy
Artists' Challenge with Media Consumption
00:52:35
Speaker
anything. And part of me thinks it's what we're talking about, this idea of this like overconsumption. And then I'm an artist. So then there's like this like, can we enjoy things as artists? Can we consume art? Do you know what I mean? What is everyone else experiencing? That's what I want to know. You're in an art museum. You're watching a piece of something. You're watching a film. I want to know what it feels like to not understand how the sand is falling on a set in a film set in a movie. It's funny you say that because like, yeah, it's funny you say that like every time I'm in a museum, I feel like or like a gallery, I feel fucking crazy. I'm like, this is the weirdest place I've ever been in. Oh, like people running around taking like I and I think part of it is like partly my brain, like the meta, meta, meta way I just exist in the world.
00:53:42
Speaker
Same. But it's like, I just see the machine, like the cogs of the machine as it's like happening. Like I'm really good at pattern recognition, you know? And like, yeah yeah I'm like, so we all are just like, it's like, it's like, it's like maybe, maybe being hater is about being in ongoing existential dread. Really? Really? Oh. Yeah, I think this podcast in some ways is a hater podcast i think I think it's a podcast for the haters and I really think if you're listening to this like Something inside you and like again, I'm gonna sound like such it ends up like wake up But I feel like also like
00:54:20
Speaker
being a hater okay oh my god this is i i totally agree with like there's so many things in my brain right now oh my god i totally agree that being a hater is for the girls the gays and the they like there is like a way that certain folks have had to survive which is like to observe and comment on and gossip and like to have an opinion. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like a form of survival in some ways, right? And I think like who who has better opinions? Who has more? Who has the gossip?
00:54:59
Speaker
yeah but the women yeah and the gays. I think there's like a whole history of that and like we could get into that, but like there's this there's this like language yeah that is spoken, right? And I think like there's this, like you have to kind of look at everything for what it is and in its truth because you because you're like scared of being like hoodwinked or manipulated or, like you know what I mean, put into a violent, potentially, situation, right? Because you're like, where i think that's kind of where it comes from is it anything for face value yeah yeah like hating is at like i don't know gossip sister surviv or something like that yeah like to be able to look at something and be like okay if we're going to exist in this space like here's how it's going to be it's really funny it's funny that that's the direction that you went because i to me it is such
00:55:47
Speaker
Well, I
Haters' Role and Societal Reflection
00:55:48
Speaker
guess they're so close. Like if we're going to talk about pop culture, we're really talking about culture and like how we relate to one another, right? There's like a bonding because like I think i think gro I think women, I mean, I think anybody who feels like a hater, right, feels this way, that like, the comment all the time, right, is exactly what you said, like, you can't have any fun, or don't take everything so seriously, or like, it's not that deep, or calm down, or you know what I mean, like all those things, and I think that
00:56:21
Speaker
to be a hater is like to like reflect back what people don't want to look at or see. And it makes people uncomfortable. yeah So of course we're being like shot down or whatever in those moments. And I think that's the role of like these people we're talking about, yeah of artists, of women, of you know what I mean? Like certain groups, right? Is to like Reflect back and and people don't like that. Mm-hmm I think you're inevitably a hater if you're an artist I think you're inevitably a hater if you're like belong to some oppressed group, right? Well, I think I think it's funny you say that because I think like being ah to me anger is like Yeah, the way I create like like really if I think I'm gonna think about it like all of the time and
00:57:11
Speaker
And I think anger is like a great tool for creativity and therefore you know like iteration on change in the world. And so i and i don't I don't know, like maybe i hype like could you make something and like not be angry? Like the seed when I'm not angry, you can make something out of ah anger. That's crazy. That's crazy to me. To me, everything I make is like, I hate this world. I want this thing in it for it to be better. Yeah, I think I think the things that I most
00:57:49
Speaker
proud of or like the things that feel good. God, I hate that word, but you know what I mean? Like are usually that, or critic like it's critique. It's like wanting to envision a new thing. It's like being a mad. It's like, you know, like, yeah, like for sure. But I think I can definite i can start, I don't have to start there, I guess is what I'm saying. Usually I find, oh, maybe I find it. I find that I'm angry, you know what I mean? I find that i'm but something is ah you know unfair or whatever the thing is, right? Yeah. It's funny that you say critique too, because when I was thinking about this, I was really thinking about like critics. Yes. I was going to ask you about that. Critics aren't haters, I don't think.
00:58:33
Speaker
i like i think they are
00:58:38
Speaker
i don't even know I don't even know what. I can't stand our landscape of constant critique in, and I think it's you know maybe potentially ironic or something like that, that we opened the podcast this way. But I think that there's like a difference between conversation and critique, and I think critique is like a skill that people learn. and i think The way that people talk about critique now is like not actually like how that works. And like I wish everyone had to go to at least a semester of art school in their life so that you could learn like so you can learn and develop that skill because I think it would get like it's a communication skill, essentially, right?
00:59:17
Speaker
Yeah, not even just receiving critique like giving it and like articulating your thoughts and ideas in a way. And I think the way that we talk about critique now is like from this, like, ah to me, it's like interconnected with like media literacy, basically, right? It's like, oh, yeah, we can't like we don't actually know Oh my God, there's like so many things I want to say. We don't actually yeah know what we're eating. So how could we possibly like analyze it at the same time? And like really, I think if you were a critic and you actually wanted to be a true hater, you would watch something. It would maybe piss you off or you would like it or something. Some sort of like inspiration spark would happen. And then you would go and make your own thing. Yeah. i think
01:00:09
Speaker
So yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I know that one of the the things that bothers you about like people consuming art is is everyone having opinion about everything all the fucking time and like why can't we just like enjoy something, right? Like the letterbox. Yeah, literally of it all. Yeah, right like yeah like, like, like, quickly reading something. And I don't think and I think you're right. Like, I think talking about Bridgerton, and like, what we liked, what we didn't like, what we whatever, like, on that whole is not the same thing. Because critics, criticism or critique is different, like you're saying, than, than a review. Yes. Yes. Yes. Go and watch something because
01:00:52
Speaker
that world, that journalistic, who which is this argumentative, it's arguable if it's actually journalism, but like that where it began, the whole reason was for capitalism, it's marketing, yeah you know what I mean? So yeah it's it has its own ah agenda. Yeah, it's on like driving force behind it, yeah. it has Yeah, it has its own driving force, it has its own agenda. So then we start to get into this like really weird gray like sloppy world with like the world of the internet where now everybody can be a critic and everybody can have review something and everybody can write a medium essay and everybody can like whatever because I do believe that there are people who fundamentally understand and maybe have
01:01:41
Speaker
you you know, this background this background that we're talking about and like have media literacy skills and then like watch something. Like there are some reviews that I've read and I'm like, yeah, even if I disagree with you, I'm like, Oh, I can listen to this. Yes. hu And then there are some where I'm like shut up like what? what are you Yeah, it's like this should be like an Instagram post. Yeah, just like totally fine, but it's like I think Where we yeah, I think there's like this muddy net like this muckiness. You know what I mean of these things because they're
01:02:12
Speaker
they're not they're different. What's disappointing is when somebody reads a cri a review of something, exactly, and that determines whether or not that person's going to go and have an experience, I think that's like unfair. yeah you know Versus if like the response was art and not like an article or an essay, which like you can also argue is maybe art. like I don't know, yeah right? like How would that shift and change things? yeah you know we would all i't yeah I don't know. This is also coming from people who we both look at everything before we consume something, which I think is also its own thing. i love you know yeah I love to read a spoiler alert before I go in and read something or whatever. I think that there's a difference between like a hot take and an actual critique. And I don't think hot takes are like, sure, hit me with your hot take.
01:03:09
Speaker
I think being a hater is about like actually standing behind that hot take, you know, and I think it's like it's funny that we're talking about this because I think like when poor things came out, I remember seeing so many weird, yes, weird, like art, like articles, video essays, ticked like just hot takes again, hot takes about this movie. And I just remember thinking like, Okay, yeah, media literacy is like a real problem. And like the younger generation being like severely squicked out by the number of sex scenes in this movie. And I was like, okay, I didn't listen to that. But like, tell me why and I have a feeling that like, we end up in this place where we're like, like with the sex stuff in particular, I'm like, that's a really dangerous conservative slippery slope.
01:04:02
Speaker
you know, where we like want more, what's the word? You know, like control no control over like rating systems and stuff like that. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah And so it's like when we like actually interrogate something with our values is very different than when we like interrogate something with our feelings. And I think people conflate the feeling like a single feeling, like just like any feeling with bad because of this like, we just have to watch all of these things that are fine. And not actually, I would argue like we we only want safe things and we're conflating a single feeling with ah with something equaling bad.
Emotional Responses and Art Critique
01:04:44
Speaker
like the entire point like we've lost a lot like the entire point is to like feel when you're concealing yeah when you're feeling and i be it's like why is you having maybe a feeling about bad something makes something bad yeah right i think i think you know this is kind of like the like the whole like i don't want someone to like indifference is the, is like the worst feedback, right? Or like indifference is like the worst thing that you can like, you either, like as an artist, like you want your audience to hate something or love something, you know what I mean? To feel indifferent, have an audience feel indifferent is like, you know. Yeah, radio silence would be horrible, yeah. Yeah, yeah radio silence is horrible. And I think like that's also kind of part of this too, right? Is like,
01:05:33
Speaker
that Yeah, you're right. like I often find myself talking to people about art and going, good, you felt something. like Great. Moving on. Or you like felt something and you feel compelled. like Please go pick up the pen. and like i The single star letterbox reviews, or I think I was telling you about like a rating system that they use. I think in mostly LA theaters for, like again, marketing, you rate the movie. like You give it like a letter grade. and it's determining of ah right after you come out of the theater. So you give something like an A, B, C or D. Yeah, yeah. And it's a button on a machine and they use it for like marketing purposes or like how to determine how long to keep a movie around or something like that. And where it sells to. from Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just was like, oh my God.
01:06:27
Speaker
Which I think is really, I think, you know, we're talking about movies just cause I think like, cause we always end up talking, I feel like we always end up using movies as an example just because it's something that like, it's so not just like, it's not just like inaccessible. I think like, you know. the art hanging in your home is like in the most accessible form of art, like the show on TV. But a movie is an experience, right? It's like an experience of art that's like pretty common. And like to me, my favorite thing about going to the movies is the walk home after talking about it, whether or not I liked it.
01:06:58
Speaker
delicious like that's like that to me is like the experience of going to see something or like yeah the conversation i'm having in the gallery is like the yeah the moving i don't even want to just call it like the point like i want to call it like i don't know like that's the 3D humanness of it afterwards right so i think like i think all of that i think like being a hater is like I don't know, maybe just like the complexity of these experiences.
Innovative Ideas and Media Critique
01:07:28
Speaker
But then also I do feel like when I was like imagining the vision of a hater in my head, I was like, you know, it's the cool girls at the back of the room. Everything that's fucking cool in this world is from haters too.
01:07:40
Speaker
By the way, if you want something cool and like pure and rock and roll and like slay, it's from haters, right? Like if we're gonna just using the word slay, right? Like drag, drag is for haters. I think like the other side of that is like a real like intense love. of something. So like I don't know, maybe it's your band's t-shirt, maybe it's Taylor Swift, or like maybe it's a certain art form or something like that. like I think that's why ah being a hater is like so canonically like you know for women, for marginalized groups, like for the like underground of like information sharing.
01:08:25
Speaker
is like yeah It's like passion, it's passion and passion can be either thing. It could be love, it could be hate. There's like this negativity for sure. Yeah, I just I keep thinking about these moments in my life where I'm in social situations and I don't feel like everyone else feels in the room or I'm like seeing you know, like you're you're talking about like the cogs or the and I'm like well It's like this feeling it's like I know it's like ah yeah, like i like, you know, yeah, it's like totally and crazy making right
01:08:58
Speaker
it's totally crazy making and then like you go and you say the thing and everyone wants to just call you like a grumpy yeah like you're grump like you're you're you're miserable you can't enjoy life well i think that's misogyny right like if you're if being a hater is like canonically like woman then like Yeah. We hate women, which is really are our hypothesis here at Do You Ever Meet Yet? We hate women, and we hate when women have thoughts and opinions, and we hate the shit that women like. right I think, ultimately, if I was going to like bring this back around, I think this is why Bridgerton is getting such a being done so dirty right now, is because we feel, and by we, i mean patriarchy and capitalism,
01:09:46
Speaker
feels able to just take shit that women like and grind it up into mush and be like, here you go. Here you go. This is what you got. We feel able to say things like that to women, be like, oh, you're just grumpy. You're just crazy. Do you ever like anything? You're just grumpy. Do you ever like anything?
01:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. If we kind of like, I see what you're saying, because yeah, I think the choices of Bridgerton in season three are a direct result of how we feel about the and so the main consumer, right which is women. like And again, not necessarily in a negative way, but like in a like an in a we've had ah We've had enough to now know our audience, right? like We've had two seasons, we've had three seasons or whatever, and now we know like who is going to stick around. And that's where I think things like putting Penelope and Manolo Blonix starts to come. like Do you know what I mean? It starts to go like, wait a second.
01:11:00
Speaker
you know like like ah we're now We're now in a vogue that's only ads. We're now vogue. what like yeah's like Vogue now is like literally only ads. There's like maybe two good pieces yes in a vogue now. right yeah so it's like and yeah I see what you're saying. right like This is what women like. This is what women want. And we can we can like yeah brush the stuff that women like. Right. that maybe had whatever flavor it had before but now it's like in order to keep this going we can kind of just like flatten it we can like make it not because like no i was trying to think of you know quote unquote like men's tv i mean i guess sports
01:11:47
Speaker
I guess i guess like was like you know like a Game of Thrones or something like that. like the The way that we like crush production value or something like that. and like Again, I'm always curious about like what are the actual demographics of these things versus like the perceived demographics of these things. right
01:12:06
Speaker
But like we don't see we don't see the same treatment to like men's, quote it like air quotes, men's media as we do to like women's media. And I think it's just because it's, like again, like patriarchy. It's like, oh, well, this is here's what you get. Here's what you get. This is it. yeah here's Here's some mush. Yeah. Because there are like the ladies that are like
Identity and Perspective as a Hater
01:12:34
Speaker
loving it. And then there are yeah are the haters. And then there's me at the back of the room, absolutely fucking dunking on it. And you know what, too? it's like I was thinking about i was the like you know like the way that we started. It's like, if you grew up
01:12:55
Speaker
as the ugly girl at the back of the room and you were made fun of and you were fat. that is You were that forever. I don't care how good my eyebrows get in my life. I don't care how, you know whatever that is. like like When you're an ugly girl or your you're othered in some way, you are like that's who you are inside of your bones and body. And like you know there's various intersections of privileges, et cetera. And also, like, yeah, I'm a hater because that's where everybody else put me. They put me at the back of the room. So I'm like, fine, I'm going to stand here and my fucking misfits banned tea and dunk on y'all with the other fat ugly girls. And, you know, and we'll we'll we'll keep it real. And guess what? You always like the shit that we make, too. So, yeah. So I'm going to ask you something that is going to drive you insane. Is Penelope a hater?
01:13:55
Speaker
Oh. Oh yeah, she's a hater. She's a real hater. Are you fucking kidding me, Whistledown? I fucking love to write that. I'd love to gossip girl my way through life. Are you for real? Actually, Whitley, this is like a full ass Bridgerton episode, I guess. Fucking Lady Whistledown is like, you know, huh the template, really? fat girls unite and gossip about everybody else and make something cool and get fucking rich off of it. Oh, you all like my little paper that I publish all the time. Well, guess what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. hu Interesting. I have at the end of my notes here, be a hater, avoid model culture, reject American american imperialism in media. And scene.
01:14:45
Speaker
I think like I think being a hater is like a really beautiful thing and like Avoid monoculture Yeah, I and I just think like I don't know if I do really feel like it's a dying art form Yeah I think, yeah, I agree. I think that yeah i didn't think I was a hater because I don't know if I knew exactly what it was. It's funny that you know you didn't and know. And now I'm like, okay, I'm a hater for sure. I mean, ah haters I think haters are people who
01:15:17
Speaker
It's not like, it's not like distrust. It's just like, or mistrust or whatever that word is. I think it's like, I don't want to get anything and think it doesn't have an agenda. oh yeah I don't look at a single fucking thing and think yeah and not be like, huh, about anything. yeah Like an email that someone sends me or yeah like an advertisement, yeah you know what I mean? Or a, Whatever, a fucking campaign to raise money for blah, blah, blah. like Literally, yeah I'm like, huh? About
World Dissatisfaction and Positive Change
01:15:50
Speaker
everything. i mean Again, it' like I'm very angry about the world, like just in general. I don't like it. I'm not a fan of it. i think it's bad it's We're in the bad, bad, bad, bad, bad place.
01:16:01
Speaker
and I don't know, maybe yeah I can have fun. I feel like I have fun. I love lying in the grass. I love looking up at the clouds. But like I just refuse to gaslight myself into thinking, oh, this is fine. like you know Business as usual. you I was looking at like the last Month, you know, why do I not feel good? I'm like, oh, cuz like the world is bad The world is bad and that gets me down and I I'm not interested I think that there's something that happens to if you like Stop gaslighting yourself
01:16:37
Speaker
I think you become less tired because you're just spending less mental energy being like, this is fine. And I think actually being a hater is a more relaxed state to be in and be like, yeah, this is bad, actually. This is not good. I don't know. I also think it gives you permission to feel your complicated feelings. One of the things I'm always telling myself is that I'm going to be a different person like any given moment. Yeah, and in five minutes, you know, like, in five minutes and an hour and like whatever. I think I guess what I'm saying is the only way to
01:17:20
Speaker
like do something with the hate or feelings, right? Like the only way to lay in the grass and maybe have joy is to create things in the world that you want to see, right? Like is to, and that I think is always where you and I are coming from. Like what do we currently need and what can we pay for it? How can we respond to it? How can we fit into our lives? What kind of, like we make things we want. i think what you and I are really good at is like not like the the idea of pricing is coming to my mind right now like when I when you get the question of like how do I price something it's like well what do you need
01:18:05
Speaker
Right? Instead of like looking around at what other people are doing. And I think this goes for any kind of creation. Pricing is just what came to my mind. But it's like, OK, how do I make this thing? what Maybe I'll go and look around at other people. And like that's like a nice initial phase of like an idea, what's happening. But like what do you want, like actually? Yeah. you know yeah I think that's maybe like how we be haters, and like how we make stuff, and like and why I do actually feel like it's a beautiful thing to be a hater. And like it's not fun to be like, severely bullied and like be oppressed all of the time. It's like not
Community and Connection
01:18:40
Speaker
fun. And like also, i you know you read this book as well, Letters to My Weird Sisters, an amazing book. I highly recommend any, like everyone read this book. It's so good. Add to your long list of TBR lists, but she writes about like seeing these other like you know weird you know Carrie as an example. like These women that are like,
01:19:03
Speaker
I don't even like ostracized socially. And it's, I've like, really, when I am out in the world, I like, I know those women. I've been the that woman, that women. I've been plural women all at once. Yeah. I like I go out of my way to like say hello to those people and like and it's not even it's not even like uh like oh and then they'll be cured from their like weirdness I'm like no like I just want to be together with the people in the weirdness yeah I think like that is that is important I think that's like maybe it's like being a hater is about like being in community really
01:19:43
Speaker
yes it's about being in community and it's about like when you when you are declaring these like hater things or whatever which like like we are all wearing the same band t-shirts like actually yeah and like i think yeah i think that that's i yeah i really really really really respond to this feeling of being in a place and being like You know, I think my like i think people have told me my whole life, I'm just like a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian or argumentative or whatever it is. When it's like, no, I'm i'm extremely uncomfortable.
01:20:18
Speaker
yeah well and i think the idea of being told you're too much actually just means like that other person doesn't have the capacity for that thing right it's like you're not actually too much there's no such thing as being too much as a human being yeah yeah totally anyway that's that's what i have for being a hater okay i just think like it's be a hater Wear band t-shirts, scowl, make stuff, do zines. I don't know. Everything fucking cool is born from being a hater. So if you want to be cool.
Artistic Expression and Self-Embrace
01:20:56
Speaker
I'm reading. Yeah. Yeah. I'm reading. Oh, god, Amanda. Is that her name? Amanda Palmer. The singer of the Dresden Dolls. Amanda Palmer. Yeah. Yeah. It's a book. Iconic hater.
01:21:08
Speaker
iconic hater. It is the coolest fucking thing I've ever read about being an artist. yeah like You want to see so a fucking hater like dress her up in a bride statue costume and stick her in the middle of a park. like li like like Was it Amanda Palmer? I think it was Amanda Palmer who was like busking naked all the time. Yeah, she was a- Do her concerts naked as well, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was a she started like out as like a street performer yeah as a statue, a bride statue in the middle of a park in Boston. like Crazy. And figured out she could make $100 a day from standing still. like Smarter woman than I. yeah Smarter woman than yeah any of us. yeah
01:22:02
Speaker
like
01:22:05
Speaker
What are we doing? Why are we on the Zoom? What are we doing? Why do I have a podcast in front of me? Why aren't I naked in a park somewhere? Wait a second. Literally the entire time that I was reading this book, I was like, what? What are I doing? Get naked. Get into the back of a room. Have frizzy hair. Yeah. Yeah. And critical. be critical angry and as Amanda Palmer is in this book, Amanda Palmer in this book is like like emotionally like torn at any given moment. right like i never like You know what I mean? And I think that that's what it is. Yeah. And that's why I think we're so fucking tired. Like you're saying all the goddamn time. Yeah. I'm so sick of explaining myself. I don't want to explain myself to anyone. Yeah, you want to lie down. I want to say, yeah and then have everyone go, Oh, okay. And not have to like have the five page essay. Yeah. Ready? No, no more. No more. No. Resist.
Conclusion and Podcast Details
01:23:12
Speaker
Resist. raas
01:23:17
Speaker
okay bye
01:23:25
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Do You Ever Feel Like, a podcast from Do You Ever Media. Follow this chaos wherever you get your pods. Our artwork is by Simon Payne. You can write us at DoYouEverPod at gmail.com. Learn more about our work at DoYouEverMedia.com. Or by following us at DoYouEverMedia. Okay, bye! ok bye yes didn't