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Episode 380: What a week so far...
0 Playsin 5 hours
Southampton – What a crazy week we are having and today's bumper episode touches on a lot of the happenings around the club, and what we think the rest of the season looks like..
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Transcript
Unbelievable Comeback Win
00:00:13
DailySaintsPod
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Saints pod. My name is Greg and as always today joined by my good friend and wonderful co-host Zach. Mate, have you quite recovered from the insanity of Tuesday night yet?
00:00:28
Zak
It doesn't quite feel real, and it should be the top news story everywhere, but instead it's still the guy without the haircut.
00:00:37
Zak
I know you made the joke coming into the podcast yesterday, but there's something like it's gone past the point where it's kind like grinding my gears down. I think it's still right and fair play to the guy, get his bag in that.
00:00:47
Zak
But just like... 4-3! We came from a three-goal deficit. Like, I was talking to my parents about it today. like, I don't believe that. Oh my god, that's crazy. Absolutely crazy. Mental.
00:01:00
Zak
No one seems to care apart from us, Greg, and Saints fans.
00:01:04
Zak
And I'm trying explain people how important and how big this is. This is like... don't know, man. It's been a good day.
00:01:12
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, it's been great. And look, the... The journey continues, though. We've got more news from the club, more to talk about.
00:01:23
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:01:23
DailySaintsPod
I've got a huge list of talking points, mate, because you know that not a minute of the day goes past where I'm not consuming some sort of thought or content about Southampton.
Goalkeeper Crisis and Impact
00:01:36
DailySaintsPod
So Alex McCarthy's got to have surgery. That's one that came out.
00:01:39
Zak
Yeah, that kind of sucks, but also, I guess it makes sense to do it now, right? When he's not really getting much game time, they're not hugely worried about him being involved.
00:01:52
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, only out for a couple of weeks from it, apparently. don't know. I thought surgery at that age was a huge risk at 163, but clearly he seems to have it under control. Look,
00:02:08
Zak
Who knows me? But yeah, it's pretty...
00:02:11
DailySaintsPod
it'll be good.
00:02:12
Zak
It's just what it is, isn't it? At the end of the day, like... I think the thing that surprises me the most about it, more than anything, is just like...
00:02:14
DailySaintsPod
It's funny.
00:02:20
Zak
So technically, how many goalkeepers do we have on our books now? Because technically, Rambo's still on the books, regardless of whether he's here or not, right?
00:02:27
DailySaintsPod
yeah yeah
00:02:28
Zak
So you've got Buzunu, who's out on loan and currently injured.
00:02:33
DailySaintsPod
yeah
00:02:33
Zak
McCarthy, who is now out-injured. Peretz, who is in on loan.
00:02:39
Zak
George Long, who is in on loan.
00:02:41
Zak
Who we don't maybe expect to play, but maybe gets a chance in the FA Cup this weekend. And now you've got Jamie Jones, where the alliteration is killing me.
00:03:03
DailySaintsPod
format.
00:03:04
Zak
Probably intention is not for him to play. That's entirely... This is, again, like I'll bring up the argument about Scott Carson every single time because whenever you have a reserve goalkeeper, that's what their job is meant to be.
00:03:11
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:03:15
Zak
Nothing more, nothing less, right? So...
00:03:16
DailySaintsPod
They're to do the warm-up and round up the numbers. And fine, that's it. Do the training. Drive the intensity of training. So, yeah, I mean, it's fine.
00:03:29
DailySaintsPod
No concerns from me. But just interesting to get a bit of transfer news, post-transfer window. That's not what was expecting today, put it that way.
00:03:39
Zak
You sent me a photo because I saw the photo initially before I opened up and read the article. And I just assumed it was like you.
00:03:50
Zak
sending me a picture of James Locke, like George Long. And like, okay. And I was like, opened it up and I like, this is a completely different goalkeeper, which shows you how much attention I paid to the appearance of George Locke.
00:04:01
Zak
That's no disrespect. It's just, yeah, a bit of a weird one, but guess it makes sense if they need someone involved in the goalkeeping unit with McCarthy out. But I guess if he needs to have a surgery like that, I guess it makes sense to do it now.
00:04:13
Zak
I just hope that we don't get some sort of curse where we end up playing like, you know, our third or fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, maybe eighth choice goalkeeper at this point. You know, swings roundabouts.
00:04:24
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. Yeah, that would not be ideal. Wow, what a horrible thought to have.
Kelvin Davis's Role and Season Ambitions
00:04:30
DailySaintsPod
Speaking of goalkeepers, and before I move on to hopefully some really good discussion points and some questions I've got for you, saw today that Kelvin Davis got the job at Hednersford up north as manager in lower league team.
00:04:36
Zak
OK. Oh,
00:04:45
Zak
really?
00:04:47
DailySaintsPod
So shout out Superkelv.
00:04:47
Zak
That's good for him.
00:04:50
DailySaintsPod
That's...
00:04:51
Zak
He didn't have the worst spell at Eastleigh. There's been managers that had worse. not like he got a relegate or anything.
00:04:57
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:04:57
Zak
He had a couple of good games there and stuff, and I think it was good. I remember his son came through and was playing from him at one point, right?
00:05:03
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, because he's on loan from us, Sonny Davis.
00:05:03
Zak
So, yeah.
00:05:06
Zak
So, yeah. It's always nice to see ex-players that mean a lot to the club do well at things, right?
00:05:13
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he was not just a player at the club, but long-time goalkeeping coach as well. And think fondly rumoured by many Saints fans.
00:05:19
Zak
Yeah, exactly.
00:05:24
DailySaintsPod
And just interesting on a day full of goalkeeper news, he also popped up on my feed, to be honest. Might have gone slightly unnoticed otherwise, but there we are.
00:05:34
DailySaintsPod
Right, mate. I've got a few things to talk to you about, right?
00:05:38
Zak
All right.
00:05:39
DailySaintsPod
The first point that I want to make, it actually comes from Alfie House on Twitter. He put out a tweet that got me thinking.
00:05:49
DailySaintsPod
And he said, if Saints go on and do the unthinkable this season, that historic win will go down as the moment it became possible.
00:06:02
DailySaintsPod
So, I mean, how unthinkable is the unthinkable? Like, are automatics still viable?
00:06:12
Zak
I don't think Waterman's six are viable at this point.
00:06:12
DailySaintsPod
Question mark?
00:06:14
Zak
I think that the fight between Middlesbrough and Coventry, I think they're not just going to like sort down tools for the rest of the season, right?
00:06:21
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:06:22
Zak
Coventry are going to want to get back up that spot quite quickly and will try build the momentum they had earlier in the season.
00:06:22
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:06:28
Zak
Middlesbrough have managed to, you know, settle after losing their manager and then carry on. don't.
00:06:35
DailySaintsPod
Middlesbrough's run of form is insane.
00:06:39
Zak
Yeah, like, you've got to feel a little bit sorry for Finnazaz going, oh, I want to go to a team that's going get promoted. And then the team he was in is probably looking to be automatically promoted.
00:06:50
Zak
I don't know.
00:06:51
DailySaintsPod
Barbers in Middlesbrough have never been so busy, right? Like...
00:06:58
Zak
Oh, Greg. Anyway, yeah, like, I'd expect, you know, potentially we get a chance in the playoffs and that would be, you know, all right, but...
00:07:11
Zak
It depends on how we do over the summer and what we plan to do to stay upright because this has happened with this club before, with the ownership group before and hopefully they've learned lessons.
00:07:19
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:07:23
Zak
But I look at Sunderland. I don't think we can do that. I thought Sunderland were pretty weak last season. didn't know if they would really... be able to, you know, even if they got promoted, didn't expect them to stay in.
00:07:32
Zak
And then they've done some really, really good business and now are having a better time than, well, quite a fair few
00:07:34
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
Team Unity and Playoff Prospects
00:07:37
Zak
clubs.
00:07:37
Zak
Like, you know, Thomas Frank was sacked today from Spurs, who are now relegation candidates, which is a crazy topsy-turvy world we live in nowadays. So don't think it's impossible.
00:07:47
DailySaintsPod
That's why we love it, though, isn't
00:07:48
Zak
I think automatics are... Unless something drastically bad happens at the top of the table, which also isn't outside the realms of possibility, to be clear.
00:07:56
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:07:58
Zak
But unless something drastic happens, maybe we've got a chance in the automatics. But also means consistently keeping a run of form. Because would also be extremely saint-y for us to win 4-3 an incredible comeback and then our next league game just like news.
00:08:17
Zak
I don't think it's impossible. I would like to remain cautious still because I don't want to ever have level of arrogance where like, yeah, that's it. We're just going to win it.
00:08:27
Zak
In fact, the fact that we already have quite a large level of arrogance in our pre-season sort of deciding where we would be in the table.
00:08:27
DailySaintsPod
Win the league.
00:08:36
Zak
Pretty sure both of you put us top. Both me and you put us up, like, you know, so they're the top. And yeah, I just don't know. I of feel cross at that guy now.
00:08:46
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. I mean, look, in an effort to remain open and honest, it was sort of deliberately provocative question. I think automatics are out of reach, is my genuine opinion.
00:08:58
DailySaintsPod
Nah,
00:08:59
Zak
I was extremely worried you were like dangling that carrot because that's what you believed. Because I also could believe that you would occasionally believe that in the background.
00:09:03
DailySaintsPod
man. Nah.
00:09:07
DailySaintsPod
No, I genuinely believe that is just too far of a gapped bridge at this point in the season. But all of a sudden, the kind of previously distant prospect of being in and amongst the playoffs is no longer that distant, right? Like, granted, with an extra game played than all of the teams above us, one point from Sip and only seven points from fifth, you know, if we even carry on with even half the form we're on with the run at the moment, it's not as far off, is it?
00:09:48
DailySaintsPod
It's definitely viable, feasible outcome. It's not as huge of a gap as it seemed, well, three or four games ago, right?
00:09:51
Zak
I...
00:09:56
DailySaintsPod
So it's...
00:09:57
Zak
Agreed, but again, it's more if you look at the teams currently in playoff places. They have also had consistently good runs of form, right? Ipswich, Hull, Millwall, Wrexham are up and down, and now we are doing significantly better and we are significantly more in amongst it.
00:10:10
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:10:14
Zak
And there was a while there that Derby seemed to be a much better team than us, and we've now overtaken them. Admittedly, as you pointed out, with games in hands across the place as well, And I think that's more of more than a, Oh, we're in it amongst it and more credit to like how the championship is as elite as elite, right?
00:10:30
Zak
Like 47 and 28, you know, like a 19 point difference between getting into playoffs and not.
00:10:31
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:10:37
Zak
And whilst that gap is getting bigger and bigger. And we said that we worried about that after the beginning of the season or something, I'm sorry, beginning of Christmas and how important the Christmas period was. And we kind of look, have come out of that now, you know, with ups and downs and we're starting to go on an upward trajectory.
00:11:02
DailySaintsPod
This is the turning point.
00:11:04
Zak
But I think, should it have been maybe the South Coast derbies? Maybe that should have been enough motivation, etc.?
00:11:08
DailySaintsPod
mean, would argue that without the grit and performance and togetherness that came from the South Coast derby, even though it wasn't the result we wanted, without that, we don't get Tuesday night.
00:11:26
Zak
I agree, actually. No, you're right. That's very, very fair. So theoretically,
00:11:28
DailySaintsPod
And, you know, it's sort of built towards it. And I mean, the true joy for me, obviously, watching back the highlights and watching back the goal, which I have done lots, to be clear. I think I had the highlights on loop for at least an hour last night. And then I showed it to the kids. And then we watched the extended highlights. It's just been fantastic. But...
00:11:51
DailySaintsPod
But really, the genuine highlight for me is watching the photos and the videos at the end of the entire team together, celebrating together.
00:12:03
DailySaintsPod
I think if you remember earlier in the season, I talked about it, about how that wasn't the case at some points where players would just shoot off down the tunnel and
00:12:03
Zak
Yeah.
00:12:14
DailySaintsPod
But they were all together and genuinely celebrating together. And it just feels the moment like we've hit that point where we are actually a team instead of just a group of individuals who you'd quite happily believe spend all week at training looking at their phone.
00:12:28
Zak
It is a talking point for you.
00:12:32
DailySaintsPod
Like they're a team that are playing for each other finally. And it's great, isn't
00:12:39
Zak
I agree. So that, know, a talking point for you, Greg, to flip around little bit is, do you think that is because of some of the transfer business and then sending out the people that potentially didn't want to be here and are getting rid of kind of,
00:12:54
Zak
what they would consider maybe deadwood. And we said, you know, we're still a bit flabbergasted by some of the decisions, but actually removing like the people that haven't really had their head in the game as much.
00:13:08
Zak
Do you think that has also been a contributing factor? Because I can't, it can't be a non-factor.
00:13:14
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, I think so. I just think just in combination of all things, like you say, trimming the squad because even if it doesn't have direct effect to remove players like Joe Reba who have you know, not being about, right? Even if it doesn't have direct impact on the players and their togetherness, it probably frees up more of Tonda's time to work on such things and do that stuff, right? And, you know, we talked about the psychologists and I'm sure that plays an element into it. And, you know, who knows what it was that made the pieces come together. But we said all season, or at least I said all season, we've just been like,
00:13:55
DailySaintsPod
close to that clicking point for the longest time and it was just going to happen eventually. And, you know, if knowing what the answer was had a magic remedy, you know, everyone do it it wouldn't be as magical or as effective as it is. But, you know, some things worked. Probably just a combination of all of the things, you know, the South Coast derby coming and being what it was and, yeah, like the transfers and just finally sort of picking up, being able to grind out a result was really important for that, for confidence as well as togetherness, right? Yeah.
00:14:29
DailySaintsPod
It's just, yeah, it's nice to see that it seems to all be coming together without trying to sort of speak too soon, because we know as we hit these points that it doesn't always stay that way.
00:14:38
Zak
no it's okay
00:14:41
Zak
there's just been so much horror like we've just talked about some of the worst performances some of the worst stuff we've watched in the space like the last year and a half and like it's just been dire so yeah you're right we do need to jump on the moments of just sheer joy and last night is one of them you
00:14:47
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
Crucial Fixtures for Playoff Hopes
00:14:58
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, but then looking forward as well, right, and talking about how realistic playoffs may or may not be, the three teams, as it stands, that we will be looking to leapfrog, right, call sixth the target, right, and be realistic. Bristol, Preston and Wrexham all above us. We'd have to jump all of them to get to sixth.
00:14:58
Zak
know not to not to
00:15:20
DailySaintsPod
We also have to play all of them left in our fixture list.
00:15:25
Zak
Yep.
00:15:26
DailySaintsPod
And, you know, you look at the other games, our next game's Cholten, who we, you know, we absolutely hammered in the reverse fixture. So, you know, you'd like to think we'll be going in that as good candidates to win. QPR, who are on sort of murky form and up and down after that.
00:15:45
DailySaintsPod
Then, you know, Sheffield Wednesday, you know, they don't want to rag on them for the problems they're having, but...
00:15:55
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:16:02
Zak
It's always upsetting to watch us play a team like that. look forward to eating my words wholeheartedly when they inevitably somehow get something against us.
00:16:09
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. And then, you know...
00:16:13
DailySaintsPod
A couple of tough games after that, Norwich and Coventry with West Brom thrown in in the middle, which, you know, you hate to say, but based on current form, is not one of those difficult games in theory.
00:16:25
DailySaintsPod
Oxford, who are, you know, battling at the bottom, should, in theory, be a win. And then, yeah, the games that are directly against the teams around us, Derby, Wrexham, Ipswich, Bristol,
00:16:39
DailySaintsPod
It's all... You know, the important part of the season is now because all of the teams we have to play are the teams that we are competing with.
00:16:49
DailySaintsPod
So basically every game's a six-point there, you know?
00:16:53
Zak
could have been such so much easier, but again, we never liked to do anything easy and dumb.
00:16:53
DailySaintsPod
It's...
00:16:59
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, I mean, where's the fun in that, mate? Who wants to just be 100 points clear at the top of the league? Yeah.
00:17:05
Zak
Not to kind of have one of those, like, if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike question, which I know we all love. But, like, it does make me think, if we've still got a couple of slightly better results, right?
00:17:18
Zak
Not, like, a lot, just enough to keep him employed. And we kind of just continue to kind of, like, go through and dither between sort of 10th, 11th and all season. Do you feel like last night would have happened? Or do you think that...
00:17:32
Zak
the specific, like, cause, cause you talk about togetherness and it's like the other, and like, you know, there are some players that are now in the squad that weren't really getting a look in under still. Right.
00:17:42
Zak
And, you know, was like putting McCarthy in goal all the time. And like, would he have actually said that he needed backup goalkeeper if Baz had barely played and he kept playing McCarthy? And would we have even ended up with Peretz? Like, because again, if some of the football decisions are being made and the buck stops with Spores, you know, does the head, has the head coach really mattered? And like, I don't want to take that victory away from Eckert at all because like it was well, you know, his substitutions ultimately are ones that made it. But I just think, would we have just continued to languish in the middle of the park, occasionally picking up a win here and there? Or do you reckon that we'd ever managed to get onto a run of form, considering what you said was that we needed to click together, and for some reason, the Steel just couldn't?
00:18:25
DailySaintsPod
I don't know, mate, because I think that a big part of the togetherness and all the stuff that's coming out, mean, you have to credit Tonda with some of it, right? What he's doing and the culture he's trying to...
00:18:40
DailySaintsPod
pass down to the players and bring through and the attitude, right, is very different than what we saw of Will Steele. And, you know, I talked yesterday about his, like, quiet but slightly just unhinged.
00:18:57
Zak
unhinged level of confidence bloke enjoys the five guys at winchester i've been known to hear
00:18:59
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. And...
00:19:04
DailySaintsPod
I think that it's just... I think it might purely be a charisma thing. And like, it's, it's still an important part of the role, right? You can be the most gifted football technician-brained manager, if you can't get that idea, get those ideas across and drive the, you know, the desire into the players to do that for you, then that's half the battle. You've got to win the players over to get that bite in. Yeah.
00:19:40
DailySaintsPod
And we saw it from really from day one as Tonda being sort of caretaker manager as well. So, know, whatever he's doing is working at the moment. And no, I don't think we'd have been in this position. I think we'd probably be closer to Pompey or West Brom's position if we'd kept Will Steele.
00:20:03
DailySaintsPod
And the thing is that it's just our desire to think about the best outcome because I remember feeling the same last season, right, when we got rid of Russell Martin and then we just continued to have a horrible season.
00:20:18
DailySaintsPod
it's like, oh, but if we'd have just been like slightly luckier at the start of the season and we hadn't have had that awful VAR decision and we hadn't like had that crazy deflected goal, then maybe we'd have done better if we'd have stuck with Martin.
00:20:26
Zak
Exactly what I was going ask you about follow-up, pretty clear.
00:20:32
DailySaintsPod
And then when you look at what he has done to other clubs since then, you think, oh, Nah, that's just the rose-tinted glasses. Like, we'd still be watching Taylor Harwood-Bellis and Jack Stephens record record numbers of passes between them, going nowhere on the pitch, like someone playing FIFA has held down their A-bun. Like, it's just... It would just be in exactly the same position. It's just you want to think back and think the best. But, yeah, it's...
00:21:04
DailySaintsPod
It's clear he's doing something right to bring it. And you can't knock it. No other manager's turned the rollercoaster back around after a downswing of form in recent memory like that.
00:21:15
Zak
So we kind of ignored stats yesterday because that podcast was entirely off of vibes.
00:21:15
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:21:19
Zak
But ever since you said that, I thought, oh, let me have check for what the stats were yesterday. And I brought up in my solo match review, right, of how we sort of had double the amount of forward passes to backward passes.
00:21:31
Zak
So if I told you that we had 64 backward passes in the entirety of that match yesterday, how many passes you think had total?
00:21:36
DailySaintsPod
I
00:21:40
DailySaintsPod
don't know, what's the average? 320 something? Yeah,
00:21:44
Zak
477 and only 64 of them are backwards.
00:21:47
DailySaintsPod
it's insane.
00:21:47
Zak
It's crazy.
00:21:48
DailySaintsPod
Are we counting Tom Fellow's assist as a backward pass, do you think?
00:21:49
Zak
I
00:21:54
Zak
don't know, maybe.
00:21:57
DailySaintsPod
No, it's just... Look, it's easier to take that with the grain of humour after what happened in the second half, right? Like, it is what it is.
00:22:04
Zak
For sure. 133 forward passes. So, yeah, almost over double again. But also, 25 total crosses. Man, that was an insane game. Anyway, back to...
00:22:14
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, I mean, the important stat is that they had three shots on target and three goals, and they all came in the first half.
00:22:20
DailySaintsPod
Like, it's just...
00:22:22
Zak
Oh, dearie me.
00:22:22
DailySaintsPod
mad okay all right it leads me to the you've led me nicely into uh actually the main question i had written down as a talking point that actually i think if i'd have asked you at the beginning we might have got a full episode out of this one question so don't know brace yourself mate uh
00:22:23
Zak
But, yeah, obviously...
Future of Tonda as Manager
00:22:47
DailySaintsPod
regardless of what happens and whether we go up or go down, right? Or obviously not go down, sorry, stay down. Tonda's got the job next season based off of performances?
00:22:59
Zak
contract's on for six months, I don't understand why is really a talking point anyway. Like, they didn't, you know, that just to stop him being...
00:23:03
DailySaintsPod
Meh.
00:23:05
DailySaintsPod
Juric's contract wasn't for three months, mate. That's not what happened.
00:23:08
Zak
Yeah, but there was always a clause that he could...
00:23:09
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:23:11
Zak
We always knew that clause was in place from early doors. But I don't really see a need. Like, if it's... We go, you know, we make it to the playoffs. If it's, for example, we now have a downward turn in four and we finish 16th.
00:23:23
Zak
Okay, yeah, find somebody new. If we finish in the playoff spots and, you know, we miss out by, like, a breadth or one game whatever, like, look what...
00:23:35
Zak
what happened at Sheffield United. Right?
00:23:37
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:37
Zak
Like, oh, let's get rid of him.
00:23:38
DailySaintsPod
What about...
00:23:39
Zak
And then they phone him back up six months later. Like, oh, sorry.
00:23:42
DailySaintsPod
What about a completely feasible situation where we finish seventh, narrowly missing out on playoffs?
00:23:52
Zak
Unless they can find a proper proven championship manager who they decide that, you know, I just, nah. He's done enough, in my opinion, to at least give him a little bit of a go. And, like, we don't... We keep talking about this all time. We have no stability.
00:24:10
Zak
We have become the new Watford. Like, Watford, don't get me wrong, are trying to keep up being Watford. Right? Like, to the point they've even appointed our former head coach's brother randomly out of the blue, which nobody expected.
00:24:18
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:24:24
Zak
But... it's, you know, maybe we need a little bit more stability for just a little while. And, you know, also think that, you know, he has the experience at that point of, you know, a season in the championship as the manager. He's had season at that point with the players and those who are good and who are bad and knows, you know, because the other thing that we have is, yeah, okay, sometimes you get a clean slate and, know,
00:24:47
Zak
But you end up, this is how we've got all of these various different cliques that have kind of, I guess, formed. And like when you had Juric come in and then, you know, he had Odo Achi, Eribo and Sulemana that sort of had a bit of a renaissance under him, right? And then subsequently two of them left and one of them was just left completely out in the cold. And when he did come on was sluggish as hell.
00:25:07
Zak
So for me, why would you really want to upset the equilibrium other than for the sake of it? And also not deluded think that we're going have incredible names queuing out the door.
00:25:18
Zak
I know that a lot of people talking about how we're an attractive job, but me and you keep talking about how the transfer funds, we'll see what happens in the summer. On top of that, you've got a director of football who controls more than I think most head coaches would allow that to happen.
00:25:26
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:25:32
Zak
And I never want to be as delusional as what I heard on Radio 1 earlier when I was listening to Newsbeat whatever it was.
00:25:32
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:25:51
Zak
I'm like, what before he leads a host nation to their World Cup?
00:25:54
DailySaintsPod
Not gonna happen, is it?
00:25:55
Zak
Like, you insane?
00:25:56
DailySaintsPod
No.
00:25:57
Zak
And like, that's the thing is we'll have to go through a whole other summer of speculation. And then we might have finally ended up with like what we consider to be a proven manager. And it will be one of the managers that has been in the merry-go-round of all the middle-of-the-table clubs and, you know, who doesn't get our backroom, doesn't get our academy, doesn't get our staff. Or they'll just do a Sports Republic thing and just, like, promote Lallana.
00:26:21
Zak
Because that's another thing that they like to do.
00:26:23
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:26:23
Zak
So, yeah, I'm kind of, for the time being, there isn't really a reason for me to say no. Like, he's also showed he's adaptable. We've moved into a back four.
00:26:34
Zak
Like, don't know if we've necessarily had a massive conversation about that, but like,
00:26:41
Zak
tactical adaptability is supposedly a thing we've brought in with our last couple of managers, right? It was supposed to be coming up with this heavy metal football that never happened. And, you know, Rusk was like, you know, defensively shored us up.
00:26:54
Zak
And then the whole point about Will Steele that we were looking forward to, if you remember rightly, Greg, we did our preview episode around it. was the idea that he was supposed to bring this kind of tactical renaissance where what he will do is try and win the game.
00:27:05
Zak
And if that means making it four at the back or five the back, and what he subsequently tended to do was play the same way as the last couple of managers.
00:27:13
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:27:14
Zak
And it didn't really break the deadlock and didn't really utilize people. And we don't know if that became from an order from the top. I know that you said part it was to do with the personnel he had, basically had the same personnel,
00:27:24
Zak
as he's got now. In fact, at one point he had Roroslev and Jalert, who could have easily both played right back without needing to be, you know, wingers. So like, yeah, I just don't really see reason for,
00:27:40
Zak
To be like, yeah, well, once gets to the end of the season, we'll get rid of him. Because also, mate, the season isn't over. That's the other big thing, right? We've still got a lot of football to play. And like, yeah, we're in a high point.
00:27:50
Zak
And yeah, man, we should enjoy it. And yes, we should be proud of the players. And some them played out their skin yesterday. You all of the substitutes that came on. Masuki, Charles, you know, Stuart's goal, considering we...
00:28:02
DailySaintsPod
Leo with 90 minutes to assist.
00:28:04
Zak
Yeah, like we just, the team played as a really good team and I don't want like diminish that.
00:28:04
DailySaintsPod
I mean, what more can you also
00:28:11
Zak
But again, there's still football to be played. There's still, you know, lots to be won and lots to be lost. And if we end up, you know, getting solid draws into the rest of the season, we end up like 13th, 14th stuff. Yeah, maybe okay. Maybe it's time to get somebody else in. But I think it's kind of a discredit to already ask, oh, should we think about getting rid of him again?
00:28:35
Zak
told you he was bad! And it's like, we've won, like, 12 games now, and how many of those wins are toddlers?
00:28:40
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, basically all of them.
00:28:42
Zak
Yeah, so...
00:28:42
DailySaintsPod
All but two, right? Mate, I just thought I'd judge the vibe because honestly, the more and more I see here of Tonda, the more like him. Tonda we trust.
00:28:52
DailySaintsPod
That's the stance here.
00:29:00
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:29:12
Zak
You're seeing more and more of that with clashing with directors of football and clashing over transfer policy. It's why Chelsea have now ended up with Liam Rossinia Like all of these things are, if you've got a manager that is able to produce results and work within the framework of the club, regardless of whether we agree with it or not, doesn't really matter. It's going to continue until they decide that they don't want to.
00:29:31
Zak
Then that's even better.
00:29:31
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:29:33
Zak
It doesn't mean that it's necessarily like a good thing because, oh, it means that they've got proven success, but I also don't really see them planning to change it down the road.
00:29:33
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, for sure.
00:29:40
Zak
So yeah, for the time being, mate, I don't really see any reason to change up. And I don't really see any reason to change up next season if it continues to be good.
00:29:45
DailySaintsPod
Well, I fully agree. And it's interesting. It's just nice to hear how similar our thought paths are and how sort of on the same page we are.
Sports Republic's Financial Management
00:29:56
Zak
Good.
00:29:57
DailySaintsPod
Right, mate, at the risk of making this an incredibly long episode, I do have one final point to touch upon. And I'm sure you remember that and listeners who remember we had... a big talk about Sports Republic the other week and had a dig into some figures and came to some conclusions.
00:30:15
Zak
did.
00:30:19
DailySaintsPod
And I wanted to talk about post from the Staple Saint that we shared between each other earlier on.
00:30:24
Zak
Mm-hmm.
00:30:28
DailySaintsPod
And he took a much... more in-depth look at the purchase of the club and went much further back and laid out a whole load of stuff in a big post on Facebook.
00:30:42
DailySaintsPod
And so shout out because it was a fantastic read.
00:30:44
Zak
We had a little back and forth about, was it, the whole drama with the, I can't ever remember their name, Valencius.
00:30:53
DailySaintsPod
Valenciennes, yeah.
00:30:53
Zak
Let's go with Valencians. We a little back and forth because he was asking about source material and anyone could find it. And I said, yeah, unfortunately, it's just like the one video. And he had very sort of similar philosophies on source control to me, which is like, well, as much as I'm
00:31:02
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:31:07
Zak
There's a video about it. That's great. And as much as this guy's an investigative journalist, the fact that I can't verify anything he's saying drives me off the wall.
00:31:14
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:31:14
Zak
And I really respect journalistic integrity in a world where that doesn't usually exist with just stuff that's said on the internet. So yeah, I find him to be very, very reasonable.
00:31:21
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:24
Zak
And I like a lot of his takes. And even if I don't necessarily agree, I think you pointed out he's got very good arguments.
00:31:28
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:31:30
Zak
So yeah, I agree.
00:31:31
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, yeah. I mean, he puts his points across well, even if I don't agree with some of the things. But what he came out with, to try and summarise his very long post, which is definitely worth a read, so go and check it out.
00:31:41
Zak
And.
00:31:43
DailySaintsPod
The amount that Dragan Solak has put into the club as a whole... It was £100 million to buy the club and about £63 million in capital injections to handle the change in operational funding between the drop from the Premier League to the Championship. and handle some existing club debts from the previous owner.
00:32:09
DailySaintsPod
And he sort of went through some of the other stuff, and compared the transfer windows before spores and under spores, and puts forward really interesting point that it's been a lot better, hasn't it?
00:32:28
DailySaintsPod
There's still been some misses, But I'd argue more hits than misses since he came in, right? talking about Yander, Sienza.
00:32:35
Zak
Well, arguably, what is the miss, right? Downs. And that even then is because trying to play him as a type of striker.
00:32:39
DailySaintsPod
Downs, yeah.
00:32:42
DailySaintsPod
Maybe
00:32:45
Zak
Yeah, Rousev, Gillette, interesting sort of decisions. Again, that's because they wanted to try and bring in very much sort of bring in Premier League experience from... It made sense at the time, I guess.
00:32:55
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:32:58
DailySaintsPod
I don't even really know if he's amiss as much of his fitness, although we knew that his fitness was shaky when we took him on.
00:33:02
Zak
We haven't seen him.
00:33:05
DailySaintsPod
So,
00:33:05
Zak
and Jalert's alone anyway, so it can come to an end.
00:33:06
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:33:09
Zak
Decision-making around the fact that it took him half the season to bring a new goalkeeper in.
00:33:09
DailySaintsPod
Mm-hmm.
00:33:13
Zak
Yeah, but that's partly down to, but that's, I guess, part of the actual wider criticism, right? Because it took him so long to be able to get somebody that's in charge of the football. And it's the conversation we've been having since it started, Greg, is that ultimately, like, you know, bringing in people that didn't seem to be able to understand the club and also just leaving the club to its own devices without any structure there to help it.
00:33:36
Zak
clearly caused our worst Premier League campaign on record. And that was awful. And shouldn't be forgiven lightly it shouldn't be ignored. brought spores in everyone's still kind of not made up their mind but i think also you have to credit the fact that you know if yander's being looked at as a 25 to 30 million pound transfer in the summer shrew business leo shrew business you know that you're right more hits than than misses which means that we know we're starting to be slightly smarter about it and that making sure these appointed somebody that is a bit smarter around it all
00:33:58
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:34:12
Zak
I think it's just judgment in the first place and the kind of the stuff that we're not going to know about because it's off the books, the stuff that isn't public and all that kind of, all those kinds of things are definitely important.
00:34:12
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, right.
00:34:55
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:34:55
Zak
Ultimately, if you're treating it as a business, you are going to to, you are going to expect output from something you are putting a lot of money into. And the problem is, is that, that's where it becomes an emotive topic because I agree with the guy that put in on YouTube quite a few videos ages ago the club ultimately is the fans like any players and owners and stuff will come and go it's the people that have supported the club through thick and thin through the entirety of their lifetime that are honestly the lifeblood of it
00:35:08
DailySaintsPod
Hmm.
00:35:21
Zak
And so, so yeah, don't you're ever going to be in a position where you have what I would consider to be ultimately charitable owners. And like, we're quite lucky that we've had people, you know, bail us out in the past and, and that may be because of the fact we've had those types of owners, it's, it's made us, I guess, more bitter when we've got,
00:35:38
Zak
an extremely sort of money focused ownership group and who by the sounds of it the mistakes they've made elsewhere have been to do with them appointing terrible people and then paying zero attention to it which is wild to me because surely if you're yeah which is you know not that like you're seeing those kind of issues occur elsewhere like i'm not going to go into that stuff because again real litigious uh certain people I ain't dealing with that.
00:35:52
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, which is really similar to what we saw here. So, yeah.
00:36:06
Zak
This is a part-time hobby for you and me, mate.
00:36:07
DailySaintsPod
I think...
00:36:09
Zak
Yeah,
00:36:14
Zak
because I'm terrible at that. You're right.
00:36:25
DailySaintsPod
And not all. There are still questions out there. I think where I land on it is I don't like the multi-club model. I don't like the... Even though it's been better, I don't like the recruitment strategy of buy players that you're going to be able to turn over for a profit.
00:36:45
Zak
especially when go in less than a year.
00:36:46
Zak
That is brilliant.
00:36:49
DailySaintsPod
And I still feel a lot of the ways that I felt before. However, I do cautiously hope and feel that maybe...
00:37:00
DailySaintsPod
they by luck or by judgment have have got the right group of people in place at the moment to to at least make it work so so there's hope amongst the the displeasure i guess
00:37:13
Zak
I think
00:37:18
Zak
I think, yeah, okay. That's definitely summarizes your thoughts, but from mine, it's that, It sucks that they don't really care, but they don't really care. What they care about, again, is the fact that the pound signs go up.
00:37:33
Zak
And whether that's done through investing into infrastructure, which results in people spending more money, making people turn up to match day more, you know, asking you really...
00:37:45
Zak
money-hungry questions about season tickets and, hey, could you turn up to more cup games, please, because we're not selling them. What if we bolted it onto your season ticket? Would you come then? You know, those kind of questions. And it's maybe...
00:37:55
DailySaintsPod
Yeah. I don't know, mate. I don't know if that was just like tone deaf from that survey what.
00:38:01
Zak
No, it's exactly what it's been all along, which is they want to make more money.
00:38:02
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:38:05
Zak
It's a really easy way to make more money.
00:38:05
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:38:07
Zak
Make more people turn up on the days where people aren't turning up, they'll spend more money. And, you know, this is why know you've got the whole argument of, oh, well, you know, you spend more local, spend more at the pubs and stuff like that. But people are creatures of convenience and habit. If people want to go to the fan they'll go to the fan zone. If people want to eat inside, they'll eat inside. You know, You're never going to be able change.
00:38:27
Zak
There aren't the people that look into this stuff as much as we are. There aren't people that, I guess, care as much as some of the fan base care. And ultimately, like any business, you're kind of bit disappointed. You wish he was kitted out in full Saints kits, came every week, was kind of a bit more, I don't showed a bit more custodianship with...
00:38:48
Zak
a sharper eye, right? Because clearly what's happened in France is them taking their eye off the ball and that team is plummeting down the leagues and is not being cared for whatsoever. And they'll probably eventually sell it off and they picked it up when it was in dire straits, right?
00:38:58
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:39:01
Zak
They picked up for cheap and they've not really been able to do what they did here. They've not managed to do what they've done at Gestephi either. And they're probably just going to take it as a loss later on. In fact, we already pointed out they're looking at a fourth club elsewhere.
00:39:14
Zak
it's just, it's the unfortunate fact of life that people don't, like business people aren't as bothered about the things that we get bothered by until it starts having an effect on the bottom line.
00:39:26
Zak
And, you know, getting demoted from the Premier League was a huge issue because we went back up and we should have done more to stay in there. And they spent a bunch of money on absolutely ridiculous transfers because they allowed you know,
00:39:37
Zak
Other than Fernandes, what the rest of them were just... can't... Ramsdale was maybe good business. But yeah, it's just that the money people are never going to really be that invested into their business, whether they should or not.
00:39:50
Zak
And we want them to care more. We want them to put more into the club. We want them spend more. We want to not just be a selling club. And I think that you will be...
00:40:00
Zak
hard up to find an ownership group or owner that is willing to just kind of pump disgusting amounts of money into it apart from what you're seeing which in you know the Premier League where even that can sometimes then have like PSR complications because if the club's not actually generating money they can't just spend it especially if it's just a loss making club so it's it's not a it's not an easy thing it's not easy and but let's just not pretend greg that oh well couple of wins and we know where some of the money is
00:40:37
DailySaintsPod
It just, it's, it's, yeah, man. It just, no, I agree. And it is definitely just sort of papering over the cracks. And like I say, I, uh, I don't like a lot of the things that are going on, but I am relieved and optimistic that, you know,
00:40:56
Zak
it won't be as bad as you think it was going to get
Summer Changes and Stability Needs
00:40:58
Zak
to.
00:40:59
DailySaintsPod
Yeah.
00:41:00
Zak
Yeah.
00:41:00
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, that's where I'm at.
00:41:00
Zak
Okay.
00:41:01
DailySaintsPod
You know, hopefully at least the...
00:41:02
Zak
And summer will be fascinating. So it's a borrow word from you, mate, simply because... what will happen? Because if we stay in the league, there will probably be some departures that people will not be pleased with. If we go up, I can't really think about it then, but then either way, at that point, they then need to completely rebuild again.
00:41:23
Zak
You know, know what happens when you go up in a league and the Dolph of Quality is insane. So either way, it'll be a fascinating summer. And then also leads nicely back into your previous question is, well, do we keep, do we keep the under-21s coach that's like just celebrating his 32, like 32nd birthday if we manage to make up to another league above, right? Is that, do we hire more? There's so many questions around it.
00:41:48
Zak
And like all of those would be the things that make my decision up on like, you know, the direction of Sports Republic. Because currently, because Tonda's getting results, the transfer window is closed.
00:42:00
Zak
There isn't really a huge amount for us to be mad about, but that could all change in the summer is where I'm at.
00:42:09
DailySaintsPod
Alright, yeah.
00:42:10
Zak
That's what I'm kind of, you know, where the results go.
00:42:12
DailySaintsPod
I feel like where we've landed is a surprise to no one in that I'm cautiously optimistic and you're cautiously pessimistic and that's really the entire dynamic of our show.
00:42:23
Zak
just fulfilled the stereotypes of our personality.
00:42:27
DailySaintsPod
Right, look, that is definitely all we have got time for today.
00:42:28
Zak
Oh, deary me.
00:42:33
DailySaintsPod
A nice booster eighth episode. How it always happens when we start the recording chat with...
00:42:38
Zak
Your bumper, bumper weekday episode of rambling from the both of us, mainly rambling from the...
00:42:43
DailySaintsPod
when you start the pre-recording chat with, have we got anything to talk about today? You just know you're in store for a 15 minute episode. It's just the way it goes. But look, thank you, Zach, for joining me and thank you everyone for listening.
00:42:57
DailySaintsPod
We will be back tomorrow preview a game that absolutely everybody cares about, the FA Cup game against Leicester. The most important game of the season, I've heard it called.
00:43:08
Zak
Hey, considering that we just had to come back in the century their own backyard and they've got come back to a place that we beat them 3-0, I can't wait for us to lose 1-0. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER
00:43:19
DailySaintsPod
Absolutely fascinated to see how that game plays out. But listen, let us know how you have managed to recover from the absolute ecstasy of Tuesday night and how you're feeling about it still. We are Daily Saints Pod everywhere. TikTok, Instagram, Blue Sky, X, Facebook, YouTube, everywhere. Let us know in the comments or on the socials.
00:43:45
DailySaintsPod
While you're give us a follow, give us a like, give us a subscribe. It goes so far in helping us as an OODA independent podcast. We have seen the boost in numbers recently and we are so grateful to you all for tuning in and listening to us every day. Like I say, without the podcast, I would still just be a person consuming every single piece of Saints anyway.
00:44:08
DailySaintsPod
So it's nice to be able to talk about it here and not bore my wife to tears.
00:44:13
DailySaintsPod
So...
00:44:14
Zak
ironically this probably helps our day job as much as sometimes they might not think that's the case because we get to have these conversations here and not you know work which is what would happen if we weren't
00:44:27
DailySaintsPod
Yeah, absolutely. yes, thank you very much, everyone. will be back tomorrow, like I say, but until then, have a great day and we'll see you then.