Transcript
Speaker: Hi, I'm Ms.
Speaker: Dears Geek, and welcome to the second episode of Equivox Unplugged, a series that aims to educate, amplify, and empower the next generation of gaming and pop culture professionals and creators.
Speaker: So today I have with me Ken Leandry, the CEO and founder of Kakucho Puré, who has more than a decade of experience in gaming and esports.
Speaker: He's been an esports consultant for the Asian Electronic Sports Federation, the editor-in-chief for IGN Southeast Asia,
Speaker: and the General Manager for Team Malaysia in Overwatch World Cup 2018.
Speaker: I'm really excited to speak with Ken because he's got vast experience not only in gaming and esports, but also experience in the Asian market.
Speaker: And the insights he's able to share about this industry in this region is going to be really valuable, especially in the conversation we have today.
Speaker: So welcome, Ken.
Speaker: Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker: Thank you for having me.
Speaker: I mean, it's interesting and quite excited to see what we can come up with today.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, obviously, you and I work together in trying to grow Kakucho Pure, but I was just wondering, just so the audience know and the listeners know, what is Kakucho Pure?
Speaker: So, Kakucho Pure is, when you translate it to Japanese, it means extended play.
Speaker: So, Kakucho means extended.
Speaker: Pure is basically katakana for play.
Speaker: So Pure, remember Pure Station back in the day?
Speaker: Oh, yes.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's how we derived it.
Speaker: And basically, Kakucho Pure is my, you can say my project after I left IGN back in the day because I felt that I had a lot of other stuff, things to do, to contribute.
Speaker: So that's my extended play in the scene.
Speaker: And also, there are different contexts about what's the extension of play.
Speaker: That's really cool.
Speaker: So let's just go back a little bit because we talked about, you know, the extension of play, but what about your beginnings?
Speaker: So what inspired you to, you know, start in gaming and esports?
Speaker: And how did you even start in this industry?
Speaker: Okay, so it's going to sound a bit cliched when you talk to people in the games media.
Speaker: They say, you know, I've played video games since I was a kid and stuff and whatnot.
Speaker: But yeah, I did.
Speaker: But I didn't study journalism.
Speaker: My degree, my bachelor's degree is in biotechnology.
Speaker: Marine Biotechnology, actually.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So when I graduated, so during uni, I played a lot of games.
Speaker: I enjoyed writing.
Speaker: I saw myself as a fairly decent writer.
Speaker: But the Marine Biotechnology degree, it's fun on the science side of things, but it can be dull.
Speaker: So after I graduated, I was a marine consultant for a while.
Speaker: I did patents for a while.
Speaker: I wrote patents for intellectual property firms.
Speaker: It's fun to write, but it can get boring.
Speaker: And having a science degree, you know, you're kind of limited to that, right?
Speaker: So there was an opportunity where I decided, you know what?
Speaker: I'm done with this.
Speaker: I'm done with science.
Speaker: So I just sent out applications and I started working.
Speaker: I was accepted as a junior writer at a male magazine.
Speaker: It's like a, you know.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So it was a male magazine, but they were the geeky side.
Speaker: It's more of a wired rather than Maxim or FHM.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So when I joined,
Speaker: I was given the geeky bit.
Speaker: So we extended on tech, comics, movies, and obviously video games.
Speaker: So when I came in, we only had like a small bracket of geeky shit.
Speaker: And then by the time I left, which is a year and a half later, we had maybe 10 pages of geeky stuff.
Speaker: So we have collectibles, video games, toys, action figures, pop culture.
Speaker: And the reason I left was because IGN was opening an office in Asia Pacific.
Speaker: So that was in 2012.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So at that time, IGN was expanding their business.
Speaker: At that time, there was just UK, US, and Australia, the main big ones.
Speaker: But they were opening a lot of offices around the world, Middle East, and APEC was one of them.
Speaker: So fun part about APEC, their headquarters is in Kuala Lumpur in TTDI.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's four places, right?
Speaker: So it's by happenstance, you know, a friend was, I was referred by a friend, went to speak with the guy who was handling it and I said, okay, fine.
Speaker: The interview went very well.
Speaker: I was offered on the spot.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So after serving maybe a few months notice and then I took over as first English editor of IGN APEC.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, around April or May 2012.
Speaker: So I was there for five years.
Speaker: Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker: I guess cool on a number of points because I didn't know that the headquarters was in TTDI.
Speaker: Of all places, I would have expected Singapore, not Kuala Lumpur.
Speaker: And when people heard it's in Malaysia, they were surprised.
Speaker: They were like, okay, when people saw my name, are you Malaysian, eventually?
Speaker: So as the IGN headquarters for that time is APEC.
Speaker: There's no IGN China.
Speaker: There's no IGN Japan.
Speaker: There's no IGN India.
Speaker: There's only IGN APEC.
Speaker: And it started with English.
Speaker: So we had to build it from ground up.
Speaker: It's so much better nowadays, the current IGN.
Speaker: But back in the day, because it was learning, you know, it was a steep learning curve, growing pains.
Speaker: And so over the years, you know,
Speaker: come up with news, interviews, and stuff like that.
Speaker: And in 2017, after exactly five years with IGN, I left.
Speaker: So the reason I left was because I felt when you work for a big brand, it's great.
Speaker: But the problem, I wouldn't call it the problem, but there is always a ceiling on what you can and cannot do because it's like a corporate structure, right?
Speaker: And I am a football fan.
Speaker: I enjoy competitive sports and video game being competitive.
Speaker: So e-sports, obviously.
Speaker: And back in the day, I think until now as well, IGN isn't much of a thing about reporting e-sports.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: So when I left, when I started Kakucho Pure, I felt that it has to
Speaker: There are lots of gaps in the scene.
Speaker: People tend to be afraid.
Speaker: Oh no, why am I jumping into the scene when there's a big player in IGN?
Speaker: You don't need to fight fire with fire.
Speaker: When you understand the market, when you look at the market, you know there are a lot of unfulfilled stories, unfulfilled points that need to be brought up.
Speaker: stories that haven't been told or haven't been shared.
Speaker: And that's always been the idea of Kakuchopure, you know, giving the voice to the small guys, helping small outlets or outlets, you know, around our same size to grow together.
Speaker: And that's what we started with.
Speaker: And that's how we are until today.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So essentially, Kakuchopure started and you founded it because of those gaps that, you know, like, no one was really talking about esports from like a media publication side.
Speaker: But also, correct me if I'm wrong, but
Speaker: also from a grassroots events side of things.
Speaker: No one was doing that.
Speaker: Especially in Asia as well.
Speaker: Because when people saw IGN open shop here, everyone wanted to, oh yeah, let's talk about AAA, AAA, AAA, all the big games.
Speaker: And then they tend to forget the smaller studios, the local studios, the local developers.
Speaker: So when I look at it, I'm like, okay, when I was at IGN, I wanted to do that as well.
Speaker: You know, we had a lot of friends, a lot of local developers that could use our support.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, different size of publications have different focus.
Speaker: And as an editor at IGN, I can only do so much.
Speaker: I cannot direct.
Speaker: I can only do as much as I could.
Speaker: What did they say?
Speaker: You want to steer the ship, get your own ship.
Speaker: And so basically that's what happened, right?
Speaker: And yeah, that's how it happened.
Speaker: That's what turned out.
Speaker: So then going back to your role at IGN, so you obviously went from being a writer, doing all the geeky stuff, straight into becoming the editor for IGN.
Speaker: What was that sort of like though?
Speaker: Like, was it because of your portfolio of written work that you could go then and get the job as an editor?
Speaker: Like, obviously, for example, I do a lot of writing.
Speaker: I've done a lot of writing, but I don't feel I'm capable to go and get a job as an editor.
Speaker: So how did that happen, do you think?
Speaker: Like, what was it about your work prior to IGN that gave you that,
Speaker: one up to become an editor?
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So when I was at that male magazine before I went prior to IGN, right, I was lucky enough to study under two really, really experienced and, you know, very willing to share assistant editor and editor at that magazine.
Speaker: So I learned a lot in terms of
Speaker: how to put it, if you get a story, you know, you say, this is a pen, you write about a pen, everyone's going to write about the same thing.
Speaker: You know, when you look at it, everyone's going to write about it.
Speaker: So my task is to make sure that my writing stands out from everyone else.
Speaker: So the idea is, when I write something, it has to bring something new.
Speaker: So that's always been my mantra when I create my stories or when I write my stories, when I do my research.
Speaker: And it goes down to my interviews.
Speaker: So I feel I built this niche for myself where if I am interviewing someone and I can bring up this information from them, that wouldn't have been gotten from anyone else.
Speaker: I do feel that I was able to bleed something out of a stone from a tough interview or whatever.
Speaker: So I've built that over the years.
Speaker: And then when I went to IGN, I brought that same approach.
Speaker: Because Asian media in general, I hope it changed over time, but back in the day, Asian media, even the English-speaking ones or even the non-English-speaking ones,
Speaker: Asians tend to be very conservative.
Speaker: Safe questions.
Speaker: They don't want to come up with those hard questions.
Speaker: And they fear that, oh, no, if I'm going to put this guy in a situation, they won't invite me anymore.
Speaker: So people forget that there are no hard questions.
Speaker: There are only unprepared subjects.
Speaker: You know, it's about preparation.
Speaker: If you don't come in prepared, you will struggle.
Speaker: So when I approach interviews, my question has always been about asking stuff that has never been asked before.
Speaker: But that doesn't mean asking stupid questions.
Speaker: It's basically coming in well-equipped, knowing what that person is excited to talk about and has never been asked.
Speaker: So over time, I brought that skill from the magazine.
Speaker: I brought it to IGN, asking all this questions.
Speaker: tough, heavy, but fair questions.
Speaker: So that is how you stand out.
Speaker: Because if you go into a room, I've been to countless rooms at E3, at TGS and everything, and everyone's asking the same questions that you've already read online.
Speaker: What is the point?
Speaker: And half of the rooms are there.
Speaker: They were on probably like sponsored flights and whatnot.
Speaker: And all they did is just record and take other people's questions and answers.
Speaker: So if you go, if you want to stand out, you have to be the one that shows, look, I am here to do my job and I am here to stand out with my good questions.
Speaker: And if you feel that you're going to take over that whole room with your questions by bantering with the subject, go ahead.
Speaker: So over time, I feel that by doing that, getting good questions, getting good answers, standing out with this strategy kind of set us apart because there was this weight of, it's IGN.
Speaker: It's not a small publication.
Speaker: So I had to put in two, three times the effort.
Speaker: And throughout that period,
Speaker: Thankfully, the industry started to know me better.
Speaker: Oh, okay, this is Ken, the guy with the hard questions, or he's going to grill us.
Speaker: I kind of built that reputation, but not for the wrong reasons.
Speaker: Yeah?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So over time, it snowballs.
Speaker: And then the ability to maybe foresight...
Speaker: Being in the industry for a while, you can start to anticipate what's going to be... You have to understand your readers or at least try to put yourself in the shoes of the people you are writing for or creating for.
Speaker: I'm a gamer.
Speaker: If I can't give a shit about what I'm talking about now, why should other people give a shit about what I'm going to be talking about?
Speaker: Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker: When you ask a question and then you go in half-heartedly,
Speaker: why would your readers care about the answer?
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: You're just like another gamer.
Speaker: If you feel yourself like, I'm just another gamer, then I should be excited about the answer that's coming out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: So, the combination of all those approaches over the years and a bit of brazenness, I think, being an Asian, Asians tend to be seen as being very meek and quiet.
Speaker: But,
Speaker: For us, like John and I, I mean, John, my business partner, my co-founder of Kakucho Pure as well, we've built this reputation as, oh, those are the two noisy Asian boys again, asking all those questions.
Speaker: But when we ask our questions, we get half of the time slot because they keep on talking.
Speaker: There is a flow to our questions and there are lots of information coming out.
Speaker: So all the brands, the one that worked with us before, they understand.
Speaker: It doesn't matter whether it's EA, whether it's Ubisoft, whether it's Wargaming, 2K, whatever.
Speaker: When they have you for that special junket or whatnot, they are hoping to get something good that's going to reflect well on them as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And when half of the seed that they've invited, they just sit there and just waiting for whatever's given, that's not great.
Speaker: And funnily enough, it makes my work even easier.
Speaker: It's like, you guys are not doing your job.
Speaker: I'm just doing my job.
Speaker: And funnily enough, it's easier to stand out, weirdly.
Speaker: But that wasn't my intention.
Speaker: My intention is to go in, make my time there worthwhile, and then get out with the best answers that I could.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think like what you said, right, like there's so many publications today.
Speaker: There's so many, for example, even content creators, there's so many people asking the same questions all the time.
Speaker: And I think, you know, now that you've mentioned that I'm also like, oh gosh, is my interview questions for you going to be the same, same kind of questions?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: it's really important to realize like when you position yourself, how do you stand out?
Speaker: So I think what you just said is really important to remember because I know working with you, when I've come to you with ideas for Kakujo Pure, you've always reminded me like, okay, we need to stand out.
Speaker: How can we add more value to this?
Speaker: How can we get something out of it that no one else is going to approach?
Speaker: Because then, like you said, people will actually care and it's
Speaker: it drives more people to read your content as opposed to someone else.
Speaker: So I think that's really important.
Speaker: And I think, I don't think anyone has said that, to be honest, in terms of like explaining how to stand out.
Speaker: Most people say, you know, find something different, but like, how do you be different?
Speaker: No, because if you are able to put yourself into the shoes of your readership, of the people who are consuming your content, it's their valuable time.
Speaker: that five to 10 minutes to read your article or to watch your video or to listen to your podcast, it's 10 minutes they will never get back.
Speaker: So it has to be something that's worth their time.
Speaker: At that time, the hottest bit was, remember those things on Reddit?
Speaker: where Buzzfeed, Buzzfeed was created.
Speaker: And people were resorting to just using GIFs, listicles and GIFs and whatnot.
Speaker: Yes, it brings in the clicks, but do you give any value to your readers?
Speaker: Do you give any value to yourself?
Speaker: And five years down the road, will this content be something you'll be proud to share?
Speaker: You realize a lot of content creators nowadays
Speaker: Oh, show me your best writing.
Speaker: They have nothing to show or they are embarrassed to show.
Speaker: Show me your best videos.
Speaker: They are embarrassed to show because they are not proud of what they've produced.
Speaker: You know, so that comes back to your personality as well.
Speaker: Okay, you know, this is something that I have to be proud of to have my name on the byline and to have even my articles quoted on Wikipedia or someone other people's
Speaker: written stuff, that brings self-fulfillment to me.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: So then leading into that, we know now how you went from a writer to then working with IGN.
Speaker: How did you end up being a general manager for Team Malaysia for the Overwatch World Cup in 2018?
Speaker: To me, I would never put those two together.
Speaker: How did you transition that way or even sidestep that way?
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So as you can see the timeframe, right?
Speaker: Between 2017 until now, I was running Kaku Chopure.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So 2018 is during the rough years for Kaku Chopure, during the early years where it's just me soloing it, right?
Speaker: And back then, my go-to game was Overwatch.
Speaker: So I played lots of Overwatch.
Speaker: I have my daily squad that we play together.
Speaker: That's during the height of Overwatch before it was killed.
Speaker: So anyways, that year, the Overwatch League was really going up.
Speaker: It was up there.
Speaker: No one thought it was going to be the trash fire it is now.
Speaker: And then the second Overwatch World Cup was being pushed.
Speaker: And I figured, hey, you know what?
Speaker: Just apply.
Speaker: That time was through application and then votes.
Speaker: And during that time, I have already built my brand as Ken IGN.
Speaker: People know Ken as IGN.
Speaker: And now Ken is running Kaku Chopure.
Speaker: During our first few years of Kaku Chopure, we've, like I said, ask the hard questions, stand out, try to get the good interviews, good subject to interview.
Speaker: So around 2018, around that time,
Speaker: This goes way back.
Speaker: You remember the Minister of Youth and Sports back then was Sainz Sadiq?
Speaker: Oh, yes.
Speaker: In Malaysia.
Speaker: And he was championing e-sports.
Speaker: Remember?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I see e-sports as like e-sports in Malaysia to me back then and until now.
Speaker: It's like Malaysian football where so much promise, so little being done.
Speaker: So I was very, very critical.
Speaker: I was very critical of the esports scene because people just, they just focus on a handful of games and people believe by just throwing money at brands instead of thinking about the grassroots, things will work.
Speaker: So I thought, okay, put myself where my mouth is, right?
Speaker: And I said, okay, fine, I'll apply as GM for Team Overwatch for Malaysia.
Speaker: Because we also realized there has always been an issue about funding.
Speaker: We've seen a lot of kids who qualify for international tournaments and were unable to go because they couldn't get it.
Speaker: And people said, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: You're just talking to the wall, Ken.
Speaker: It doesn't happen.
Speaker: So I said, well, I...
Speaker: I hope to change it.
Speaker: So I applied.
Speaker: And yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks because so I applied and then finally by vote, I won.
Speaker: As a GM for Team Overwatch Malaysia.
Speaker: So as GM, I was tasked in, one is working with my team, with the coaches in whatever, either electing the coach through the community and then getting the best players.
Speaker: And then the most important thing, funding to send these kids, five, six, eight of them to the US to compete live in the World Cup.
Speaker: And we required at least 100k to send that many people because flights aren't cheap.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And that's the thing.
Speaker: Because people don't think about Overwatch back then.
Speaker: People only think about a handful of games.
Speaker: CS.
Speaker: And that's it.
Speaker: Mobile Legends wasn't even up.
Speaker: So it was... And I opened it to everyone and myself as well that
Speaker: Esports Federation or Esports Management in Malaysia was still way back.
Speaker: So I said, okay, I'll take the hit.
Speaker: But we need to show that, look, even though we get to the World Cup,
Speaker: The people who are running the eSports federations in Malaysia don't know what they're doing.
Speaker: They don't see the value yet.
Speaker: They only think about, oh, let's host big things in Malaysia.
Speaker: But they don't think about player welfare.
Speaker: So it became quite a... Because we were unable to gather the funds, so we had to turn down.
Speaker: We were unable to go to the States for the tournament.
Speaker: But to raise money, we did something that every other country that was participating copied us.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So people were like, oh, how do we raise money?
Speaker: I was talking to all the GMs from all the other participating countries and they were like, how do we make money?
Speaker: And immediately I said, you know what?
Speaker: This is what Malaysia is going to do.
Speaker: We are going to design... Because when we were told, oh, Overwatch World Cup teams cannot wear their own uniforms, they will be given a jersey.
Speaker: I said, are we going to get anything from the... any cut?
Speaker: They said, no.
Speaker: So I said, what about walkout jerseys or shirts that our players can wear during promotions?
Speaker: I said, oh yeah, that's up to you.
Speaker: So we designed a jersey for the team Malaysia and we started selling them.
Speaker: Because we know that in Asia, people don't really donate.
Speaker: But if they get something in return, they will.
Speaker: So buy the jersey, proceeds from the jersey goes to our funds or to our players.
Speaker: And then hopefully that can send us to the States.
Speaker: Almost every other country who were participating in the World Cup followed our idea.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So we released, oh, look, this is the Malaysia, Team Malaysia's walkout jersey.
Speaker: which will be sold and the proceeds go to our funding.
Speaker: A week later, everyone else came with their own and they tried to do the same thing.
Speaker: So, turns out I said, look, Asians don't like ideas.
Speaker: When we push to the wall, we will come up with all these ingenious ideas to come up with these solutions, which I think by now people are still copying by creating team jerseys to be sold.
Speaker: in a way to raise funds.
Speaker: So even though it was a failure to send our team to the World Cup, but it was a success story to show that different ways of raising funds and building a community with this one.
Speaker: So the new manager, like we have a new manager for Team Overwatch Malaysia this year, but sadly it's only the tournaments are being done online.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So that's there, that's where Overwatch World Cup is.
Speaker: That's so interesting.
Speaker: So like in terms of the jerseys,
Speaker: You had to produce it.
Speaker: You had to design and then produce it.
Speaker: Did you have any funding to produce those jerseys?
Speaker: How did that come about?
Speaker: To be able to sell them, obviously you need money to make them.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was a community thing.
Speaker: Obviously, I used my own funds to pay the designer and the jersey designer I paid.
Speaker: to come up with it.
Speaker: But the problem about merchandising is stocks, right?
Speaker: You don't want to buy it first and then hope people do this one.
Speaker: So I built this system and I said, you know what?
Speaker: Each jersey is customizable and made to order.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So that way, we don't have dead stocks.
Speaker: People who are interested, they will put in the order.
Speaker: We got close to 100 people
Speaker: close to 100 jerseys being sold.
Speaker: People, you know, with their own name, customizable.
Speaker: There's a Team Malaysia logo and stuff like that.
Speaker: So that is how we manage.
Speaker: So we put initial expenditure, which is from my own out-of-pocket, just for the design.
Speaker: But down the road, all the marketing, all this one was through the community, through the Team Overwatch Malaysia community, who were actually very, very helpful and very, very enthusiastic.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: That's so nice.
Speaker: So, I mean, obviously sad that they didn't get to go to the US, but at least the players felt like the community supported them.
Speaker: Yes, that's important.
Speaker: And then it also shows everyone else.
Speaker: The brands, you know, other brands who were a bit skeptical about, you know, where this is going.
Speaker: And other games as well.
Speaker: Communities from other video games or other esports scenes who saw this and said, oh, yeah, that can be done.
Speaker: Why not?
Speaker: So, hopefully, it kind of gave...
Speaker: no matter how small it is, but that little momentum or that trust in everyone, there is hope for this scene.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's really interesting because my next question was going to be around challenges with starting up Kaku Chopere, supporting the local esports scene, especially at a grassroots level.
Speaker: And you talked about the challenges with getting funding.
Speaker: With obviously the Team Malaysia, there was that sort of challenge with getting the funding to send them to America.
Speaker: But in terms of setting up Kakucha Parade to the extent that it is today and
Speaker: You've worked with a lot of government bodies to have these grassroots esports events.
Speaker: Were there any other challenges that you faced with especially being on your own, setting all this up and then finding your team members and everything like that?
Speaker: I think the biggest challenge is continuing forward when you get turned down.
Speaker: I mean, Kakucho Pure was basically, how to put it, when I started Kakucho Pure, it's totally out of pocket.
Speaker: It's, you know, basically, you stop all my savings.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's good to have supportive family, supportive people around me.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, I'm trying to, I was trying to build a business and business doesn't, you know,
Speaker: care and sentiment and love around you don't pay the bills, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the idea has always been about stretching as far as we can, finding our own niche.
Speaker: So when we pitch our ideas to sponsors, to partners and whatnot, we are not repeating what has already been done outside or elsewhere.
Speaker: We are being pioneers of this, what we are trying to do.
Speaker: I'll give you an example.
Speaker: When I was at IGN, I've seen lots of
Speaker: gaming events being done.
Speaker: Easiest example is in Singapore, for example.
Speaker: There were so many events in Singapore that Singaporeans take it for granted.
Speaker: There was an Xbox showcase in the middle of Singapore and barely 50 or 100 people came because they are so used to this event.
Speaker: But I had an event as well in Jakarta where...
Speaker: only 70, we only can accommodate 70, but almost a thousand people came.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Because they don't get those sort of events often enough.
Speaker: Same in Malaysia.
Speaker: We only have a limited amount, but more people came because, hey, I want to be part of this.
Speaker: This is back in the early 20-teens, not in 2020+.
Speaker: So we know that there's high interest in video game events, there's high demand in video game events, but that's not enough.
Speaker: Not enough events being done.
Speaker: And one of the reasons is cost.
Speaker: So with friends and people that I've been working with when I started Gakushu Pure, we want to fill this void.
Speaker: So we can run video game events in the region, make it cost effective, because at the end of the day, we want to bring in people to enjoy and come.
Speaker: All right?
Speaker: And down the road,
Speaker: we, you know, eventually the money will come, the funding will come, it will grow.
Speaker: But you can't expect to make profit from day one, day two or day three.
Speaker: No, you have to have that perseverance to believe in your idea.
Speaker: And your idea shouldn't just be empty.
Speaker: It should be like, okay, the reason I believe it's going to work is because of this, supported by this, this and this.
Speaker: And by being able to come
Speaker: together, several people come together who share that same sentiment.
Speaker: That is how we grew Kaku Chupure slowly.
Speaker: We snowball and snowball and snowball.
Speaker: That is on the event side.
Speaker: But on the content side, as I mentioned just now, finding our niche, finding how we stand out.
Speaker: I cannot write 30 news a day.
Speaker: if I want to go toe to toe with IGN.
Speaker: But what I can do is I can write maybe every other day when I was running it solo, right?
Speaker: I can write maybe three or four news today and within two, three days, I come up with one feature.
Speaker: A feature article which is timeless, which is still relevant three months, six months, 10 months down the road, is more valuable than 30 news.
Speaker: Because once you put 30 news, you know, the next day it's irrelevant, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So over time, we built that as well on the content front with Kakucho Puray.
Speaker: He said, yes, I can report on daily news, but we want to create a continuous, you know,
Speaker: stuff where it's evergreen.
Speaker: So that's our content approach.
Speaker: Same with our video approach.
Speaker: But also at the same time,
Speaker: Yes, when I am running my own ship, when you are steering your own ship, doesn't matter whether you are running a website or running a podcast or running a YouTube channel, it's a passion project.
Speaker: You can do whatever you want because you decide the creative control.
Speaker: But you also have to take a step back and think, is this a self-indulgent thing or what is my end goal?
Speaker: So you have to find a good balance because you are building this for yourself and your audience.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And you have to think about your audience, what will make them happy while at the same time ticking as many boxes on your list.
Speaker: So there are some stuff that I like that most of the people are not really fan of.
Speaker: People love Final Fantasy, but I'm not a Final Fantasy guy.
Speaker: Oh my gosh, that's blasphemous.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: But some people will think, oh, I don't care.
Speaker: I don't like Final Fantasy, but I'll still write Final Fantasy because I want to get the clicks and whatnot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Does it make you happy?
Speaker: It kind of affects your morale in creating it, right?
Speaker: And it will show in the final product.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So at the end of the day, always try to find that fine balance.
Speaker: You can jump on the bandwagon.
Speaker: You can jump on what you think is going to be hot.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, it should be a content which you are proud of.
Speaker: You're happy and you're happy to, like I said earlier in the podcast, proud to say, hey, I have my byline in that five years down the road.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's really important.
Speaker: Like you touched a very good point there in terms of balancing it, because I find a lot of creators, a lot of people in this industry, they feel like they have to follow the trends.
Speaker: But sometimes following the trends doesn't necessarily mean good content.
Speaker: So I think you definitely made a lot of sense there.
Speaker: And speaking of obviously all of everything you've done with, you know, the grassroots events, Kaku Chopra in general and standing out, you currently have a gaming and esports show on national television in Malaysia.
Speaker: Can you talk a bit about that?
Speaker: Like how did that come about?
Speaker: What inspired Main Game, the show?
Speaker: Okay, so here's the thing.
Speaker: People back in the day,
Speaker: If you want to watch, if you want to get video game content, you know, you have to rely on the internet, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But the thing is, if you go to, if you open a browser and you type whatever, you're at least by a level of, you're a core gamer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: you're a core gamer.
Speaker: You know what you're looking for, you know what you want, you have a specific thing that you're looking for in mind.
Speaker: And also, there's this mentality, perception actually, of video games being an elitist activity.
Speaker: It used to be very expensive back in the day, right?
Speaker: You know, if you don't come from an upper middle class family, it's going to be very hard to see a console in your house.
Speaker: But video games nowadays,
Speaker: is very approachable.
Speaker: It's very accessible.
Speaker: And I like to say that e-sports and video game is like a great leveler because everyone who has access to it, you can compete.
Speaker: And mobile games has, mobile games being on phones, Android phones, and cheaper internet has made video games very, very accessible.
Speaker: However,
Speaker: The perception that it being elitist, it's still there.
Speaker: So the thing about Asia is people always have this negative connotation about it and we need to educate the parents.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: People who play video games, our age.
Speaker: People who like video games are just looking into it, kids, much younger, probably young enough to be my kid even.
Speaker: But the thing is, the parents don't understand.
Speaker: So we need to educate them.
Speaker: So we can't expect them to, I'm going to go on the internet, I'm just going to look for StarCraft.
Speaker: I'm going to look for The Last of Us.
Speaker: No, it's not going to happen that way.
Speaker: But I thought to myself, what if a kid can say, hey, mom, the TV is talking about eSports.
Speaker: This is what I'm playing right now.
Speaker: Or can say, hey, tomorrow morning, there's a show on TV that's going to talk about
Speaker: a career in esports in Malaysia, tune in.
Speaker: So that would be the best way to get access to people who wouldn't have even thought of looking at video games down the road.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So through a lot of happenstance, I got in contact with the director of broadcast of RTM.
Speaker: So RTM is equivalent to the BBC of Malaysia.
Speaker: It's free to air TV, everyone gets it, right?
Speaker: So I spoke to the guy and then
Speaker: He said to me, what do you have in mind?
Speaker: Because RTM is known as a very old school channel, like the BBC.
Speaker: So they want to reinvent.
Speaker: They want to be a bit more, much more relevant, much more up to date and stuff like that.
Speaker: And I said straight away, I was like, video games.
Speaker: You want to reach out to people, you want families to get together, you want people of different age and socioeconomic and demographic to understand, get together, or you want to uplift those from the poorer states, from the lower socioeconomic background to give them a chance to compete in video games.
Speaker: There's no segregation by gender.
Speaker: There's no segregation by age.
Speaker: It is relatively cheap to get into.
Speaker: You have a phone, you can play.
Speaker: But we need to show there's a support, not just from the government, but from everyone around.
Speaker: And he was like, okay, let's get to talk.
Speaker: So we got to talking and then
Speaker: At that time, the title wasn't there yet.
Speaker: So they were like, Ken, do you have any suggestion for the proposal?
Speaker: And immediately in my head, let's call it main game.
Speaker: Because if you're a core gamer, what's your main game right now?
Speaker: My main game right now is Starfield.
Speaker: Someone's main game is Baldur's Gate.
Speaker: But main is also main in Malay playing game.
Speaker: That's clever.
Speaker: So by doing so, we are not saying, oh, it's just video games is an urban thing.
Speaker: No, video games is for urban, rural, English or Malay, whether you're core or casual, whether you're new or old.
Speaker: So by doing so, when people say, hey, you know, is it main game or main game?
Speaker: I was like, that's my point.
Speaker: That is my icebreaker.
Speaker: So like when you asked me just now how the Kakuchon Purek came about, that's also one of my initial ideas.
Speaker: It should be the icebreaker.
Speaker: I want people to ask about it.
Speaker: And I also want people to ask, is it main game or main game?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So now we are about to air our 13th episode next week.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And all of our episode, we figured let's make it as accessible as possible.
Speaker: Because a lot of, here's the thing, a lot of people when they talk about video games, they think everyone understands it the same way they do.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: When they talk about video games, they start talking about high-level stuff.
Speaker: But you forget, when you try to talk to the masses, you need to educate them first.
Speaker: It's like, imagine Top Gear.
Speaker: I would define main game as Top Gear, but for video games.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That makes sense.
Speaker: Because during the first seasons of Top Gear, they don't talk about exotic cars.
Speaker: They talk about day-to-day cars.
Speaker: what to look out for when you buy a second-hand car.
Speaker: We're talking about a Skoda or a Ford or a Fiat.
Speaker: They didn't talk about Ferraris and Jaguars or Aston Martins because they want people to understand car culture first.
Speaker: For us to make video games as accessible to everyone, our topics on main game is very broad and very...
Speaker: what you call it, mass.
Speaker: So people understand video games first.
Speaker: People understand what it's all about, the history of it, what it takes to be in it, and how many local publications are in it.
Speaker: Because the target market for main game and Kakuchopure are very, very different.
Speaker: Okay, yeah.
Speaker: Hopefully down the road, they'll find a way where they merge.
Speaker: So my dream is one day we can just create a content one-on-one for Kakuchopure YouTube, which is 100% transferable to main game.
Speaker: Because we've built that understanding, we've built that idea that everyone in Malaysia, you know, you want to raise their awareness of video game to a higher level, right?
Speaker: Rather than, oh, I'm just talking about Super Mario and Pong.
Speaker: So that's where we were, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, like I think that's such a great, I guess, initiative really, because you mentioned, you know, parents like wanting to understand video games, but so many parents, even here in Australia, they have no idea what video games and esports entail.
Speaker: And they have no way to learn something.
Speaker: about these things.
Speaker: But if you turn on the TV and you see it on like free to air TV, it's more likely that they will sit and watch rather than have to, like you said, you know, find it on the internet or having to understand things in a way that it's like high flown language almost.
Speaker: Or another language, almost.
Speaker: Rather than being false-fed to them, it becomes much more natural.
Speaker: You just turn on TV and then it just appears.
Speaker: And the fun part is, our show airs on Saturdays, 11.30am.
Speaker: It's like Saturday cartoons...
Speaker: right there just before lunch.
Speaker: And then it goes on reruns on Sundays as well.
Speaker: So we figured, okay, we have the platform to educate and make it as accessible and as like, you know, very, very easy to consume.
Speaker: So we are very happy with that.
Speaker: RTM is very happy with that.
Speaker: Oh, that's good.
Speaker: Yep, yep.
Speaker: So by the time I think this recording goes out, I think we would have announced the renewal of season two.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Congratulations.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Now, it's just a background, fine-tuning works and whatnot.
Speaker: But so season two, we aim to make it better.
Speaker: We aim to touch heavier topics.
Speaker: And we try to make it topical.
Speaker: For example, for the whole of August, because in Malaysia, it's the...
Speaker: what you call independence month, right?
Speaker: For Malaysia.
Speaker: So we decided to focus a lot on Malaysian talent, Malaysian faces, Malaysian esports athletes, Malaysian publishers, because we want our viewers to feel that, hey,
Speaker: One of us, I can be that.
Speaker: I can feel relatable to the subject that's being talked about or focused on TV.
Speaker: We want to create a lot of inspiring stories, aspirations for kids who just picked up their phone to get into mobile.
Speaker: So that is our idea behind Main Game.
Speaker: Oh, I love it so much because, as you know, for me, representation means so much.
Speaker: If I had that growing up in Malaysia, who knows what I would have gone through as opposed to doing the traditional, you know, go down the medical path and then decided, okay, law then, and then find my way now where I'm doing things in gaming.
Speaker: which, you know, like a lot of kids in my age group anyway, like they don't pursue what they actually want to pursue.
Speaker: They pursue things based on like stability, security, what their parents tell them is the ideal job.
Speaker: But also that's because they don't see themselves on TV.
Speaker: They don't see themselves in media, you know, and I think that's the most important thing with why I do a lot of work in representation is because
Speaker: one day I'm going to have a child who looks just like me and they're going to look at Twitch and YouTube and only see a particular type of person.
Speaker: And, you know, as a result, what does that mean?
Speaker: Do they then go, oh, I can never make it because, you know, I don't look like that.
Speaker: So I think it's really powerful that seeing yourself on screen, seeing yourself in media,
Speaker: It's the same thing like, how to put, back in the day, I think it was the one by Adam Sessler, was it X-Play?
Speaker: The one, yeah, anyways, so back in the day, even right now, right, kind of funny, you know.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: What was it, the one that just shut down last year?
Speaker: Giant Bomb?
Speaker: No, not Giant Bomb.
Speaker: The one before, the one they put tons of money in, still was with Adam Sessler, that one.
Speaker: So anyways, we can edit it later.
Speaker: So the thing is,
Speaker: Relatability.
Speaker: Because when people look at all this content, like you said just now, you go to Twitch, you go to YouTube, you go to whatever, you don't see themselves.
Speaker: They feel that, oh, I can see a white guy, a white girl, and that's it.
Speaker: Our host on main game is Ifah, a Malay girl with tudung.
Speaker: And she's actually an anchor on RTM.
Speaker: And she's very enthusiastic, willing to learn, high energy.
Speaker: And I think it's good because it shows that, hey, hold on, a Malay girl with headscarf
Speaker: on TV, talking about video games and esports, talking about the history of esports, I hope it gives a lot of inspiration to a lot of Malay women, Malay girls, who are keen to get into this, get into the video game scene, but they might feel that, you know what, is there anyone in there?
Speaker: So I think there was one episode where we interviewed an esports athlete, a girl who is part of an all-girls Mobile Legends team.
Speaker: So to me, that is what we want to do.
Speaker: We want to give, like I said, right, give the voice to the voice, you know, give the voice to the little guys.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Help prop them up.
Speaker: And I hope we've done what we sought to do with main game.
Speaker: And I think season two will have a lot of more stuff that we'd like to tackle.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: So just diverging a little bit, to still talk about the market in Asia, what do you think the state of,
Speaker: you know, the industry in Asia is like, do you think young people can get work in this industry, like sustainable and secure work?
Speaker: What are your thoughts?
Speaker: I think they do.
Speaker: And part of our activities, our events, and our collaborations in Kakuchu Pure with the likes of MDAC, PlayStation Studios Malaysia, all the publications here is...
Speaker: to raise awareness because people always think video games and esports is just about athletes, right?
Speaker: There's a whole ton of career opportunities there which people are unaware of.
Speaker: So that was why in some of our episodes, actually throughout the season one, we spoke directly to when we speak to local game devs,
Speaker: We also talk about their work culture, how they get into video games industry, funding, what they look for in creating their games, and how they put in representation into their games.
Speaker: Because we want, like I said, we want kids, we want viewers to see that and say, oh, yeah.
Speaker: If my kid likes video games, he said he wants to get into the scene.
Speaker: Oh, these are the type of jobs that he can get into.
Speaker: So the problem about, I wouldn't say the problem, but the hurdle right now is awareness.
Speaker: Awareness and perception.
Speaker: Awareness about what can be done and perception about what it's all about.
Speaker: So we try to bridge it.
Speaker: We try to bridge that.
Speaker: If you're already in the scene, you're already in the know, we'll try to help connect you.
Speaker: with this one.
Speaker: But if you are keen, you want to get into which group that we should really cater ourselves.
Speaker: Teens, people who are just, you know, they are doing their PMR, SPM in the next couple of years, who are deciding their career decision in the next three, four years.
Speaker: And not just them, their parents.
Speaker: So these are the core people that need to be educated, needs to be
Speaker: Maybe educated isn't the right word, but these are the core people that need to be addressed.
Speaker: We need to address them.
Speaker: We need to talk about their fear.
Speaker: Ask them what their fears are about.
Speaker: And then we need to indulge them with all of this additional info that wouldn't have come to their plate.
Speaker: So hopefully, Endgame, which is a free-to-air TV, free programming, once it's done on air, it goes live on the RTM Click, which is a VOD service.
Speaker: So people can always go back and just re-watch.
Speaker: So hopefully, we have an archive of all of this new information.
Speaker: So you kids want to get into video games?
Speaker: Yeah, we have an episode about that.
Speaker: Oh, your kids want to get into e-sports.
Speaker: Your little girl is interested in competitive sports.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, we have an episode about that.
Speaker: So it feels less of force feeding.
Speaker: And so right now in Asia, the perception about families thinking, oh, you have to go for a professional degree.
Speaker: Back in the day, yes, when the parents were of those who were born in, you know, baby boomers and whatnot.
Speaker: Most parents right now are probably around our age, yeah?
Speaker: Generation X, millennials, understand, you know, are more tech savvy.
Speaker: So the angle for them is more about assuring them that there is a career, there is a proper industry, and there is a pathway to get into it.
Speaker: So right now, I've been talking to a number of institutions of higher learning, colleges, universities, and whatnot, who are trying to
Speaker: you know, create proper programs, not just esports, but also for their students, for their activities to, perhaps if they want to get into it, it's something that they can look into.
Speaker: And the good thing about Malaysia right now, they are also aware, the Minister of Youth and Sports is aware, they want to introduce esports into the school's curriculum.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, so through that,
Speaker: We are trying to work closely with that as well.
Speaker: Spread the word, help where we can, do as many grassroots events.
Speaker: Because if you want to get into esports, you need to compete.
Speaker: And you want as many opportunities to compete.
Speaker: If you want to get into video games, you need to talk to the publishers or people who know, who are recruiting, who can guide you to follow that path.
Speaker: So we are trying to get it all the way down to the grassroots side.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: Okay, so based on that, would you say that the industry is very healthy in Asia and it's growing?
Speaker: Yes, relatively healthier.
Speaker: It's much healthier than how it was five, six years ago.
Speaker: I think there's a lot of good people who are doing a lot of good things.
Speaker: And a lot of these people are also trying to
Speaker: experimenting new approaches in not just only not only just to talk about games that they feel represent themselves, but also to share the hobby.
Speaker: video games is being very, very accessible and it kind of breaks that barrier, especially that socioeconomic barrier.
Speaker: I think that's always been the biggest block.
Speaker: So I think it's very, very healthy right now.
Speaker: And I think the government has shown some awareness and willingness to participate, learn, and actually...
Speaker: maybe even use it to their own advantage.
Speaker: Because recently in Malaysia, you are automatically eligible to vote once you turn 18.
Speaker: So some political parties or some sections might see this.
Speaker: Okay, video games is a good way to connect with your potential voters.
Speaker: So yeah, that's you.
Speaker: You do you, right?
Speaker: Whichever works best.
Speaker: Because a lot of politicians right now, it's more about being relatable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Finding a common ground.
Speaker: So they see it from that perspective, good for them.
Speaker: So once you take all of that into account, you bundle them up together, I would say video games is in a better state than it was before.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's good to know, especially, obviously, like,
Speaker: I come from Malaysia, as you know, and I've been so out of the loop when it comes to gaming in Asia, that it's actually quite nice to almost see like my interests is starting to be very popular from a government standpoint.
Speaker: Because back in the day, I never thought that the government would care about video games or care about being relatable.
Speaker: So it's quite nice to see now that there's like that bridging of gaps, so to speak.
Speaker: And that leads me to my next question.
Speaker: Do you think then that the Asian industry and the Asian market, do you think there'll be a point where one day it'll be almost on par with the Western world?
Speaker: Or is there a way to bridge that gap so that, you know, we're all doing this collectively together from a global standpoint?
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: Because I hope so.
Speaker: I really hope so.
Speaker: But my...
Speaker: I think just pre-pandemic, from the media standpoint, from the creators standpoint, I think there's somewhat of parity there, where everyone has equal access to certain things that's happening.
Speaker: Doesn't matter whether it's in the UK, in the States and whatnot.
Speaker: E3, if you go to E3 2018, 2017, you can see
Speaker: a diverse look, faces.
Speaker: You have Asians, you have Asians, you have Indonesians, Malaysians, Koreans, Taiwanese, India, and then you have the Westerners and whatnot.
Speaker: But once they, right now when I see it, it's going back to that part where, oh no, it suddenly feels like a white boys club again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's what I feel from how I see it.
Speaker: They might think, oh, you're all the way in Asia.
Speaker: We're all the way here.
Speaker: They're only catering to Europeans and Americans.
Speaker: But people always forget that the biggest concentration of gamers are not in Northern America.
Speaker: They're actually in Asia Pacific.
Speaker: So what I wish is for brands to take a step back and don't paint every gaming market with the same brush.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: That's important.
Speaker: Number two, understand your target market.
Speaker: It's like if you are looking into the Southeast Asian gaming market,
Speaker: you should have specialists or people who understand what works on the ground.
Speaker: And you can't just simply, hey, I'm just going to call, oh, which publication has the highest number locally or call him, fly him over, and then just talk about a game and expect that game to suddenly, you know,
Speaker: you know, go really big in that market.
Speaker: No, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker: A bit of research, a bit of additional respect to the market goes a long way.
Speaker: And don't just rely on olden days, oh, I'm just going to buy a banner and then that's it and geo-target it.
Speaker: I hope brands will put more effort to show appreciation to the players in the region.
Speaker: one American dollars in Malaysia is equivalent to one American dollars coming out of the States.
Speaker: So what makes Southeast Asian dollar, one dollar that you get here is less valuable?
Speaker: No, it doesn't.
Speaker: I feel if they put a lot of effort and a lot of care, Southeast Asians, Asians in general, are willing to spend and are more than happy to show the love.
Speaker: But I just feel brands are just taking the easy way out and like, oh, you know, just follow what works five, six years ago.
Speaker: And I hope that they look at, you know, they change the playbook.
Speaker: Change the playbook and understand the market.
Speaker: Realize that the Asian market is a different beast altogether.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: And certain languages, you know, they'll be surprised how
Speaker: a country market is totally different just by the virtue of not using English.
Speaker: So that's... Yes, that's... Yeah, very important.
Speaker: And I'm so grateful that you brought that up because I definitely see it from that point as well.
Speaker: I think at the end of the day, different cultures consume things in different ways and you really have to understand those cultures.
Speaker: You can't just go...
Speaker: okay, this works in Europe and North America, so therefore it must work in Asia and Africa, for example, you know, like even Australia and New Zealand, yes, we're English speaking, but not everything works here the way it does in North America and vice versa.
Speaker: So it's really important to have, like you said, that respect for each region and each culture and the ways things work in each region.
Speaker: I think that's really important.
Speaker: So I'm so grateful you brought that up.
Speaker: I don't really have any other more serious questions for you, but I do have a fun question that I would like to ask because I want to end the podcast on a fun note.
Speaker: Not that everything we've talked about wasn't fun because it's very insightful, but I think just to kind of take the seriousness away, if you could change one aspect in a game that you've played, what would the game be and what would you change?
Speaker: Game that I played I would like to change.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm a geeky statistician guy, so I play football manager every year.
Speaker: Yeah, so my only issue about football manager is they don't show physical growth for the youth players.
Speaker: That's all.
Speaker: Do they just stay youth?
Speaker: No, no, they're youthful.
Speaker: Just say you find a talent from South America and he's 5'2".
Speaker: And he stays 5'2 when he's 16 and he's still 5'2 when he's 32.
Speaker: So, you know, humans grow, you know.
Speaker: So that's the only thing that I wish they introduced in Football Manager.
Speaker: I wonder why they don't.
Speaker: Yeah, that's why.
Speaker: It's very trivial for me, but that's how I look at it because I like to hunt for wonder kids and then when you go for them and then they tend to be very little, right?
Speaker: Oh yeah, five feet two, five feet one, South Americans, the next Leo Messi and then he stays that height and then you take him to Europe and then he gets butchered by everyone because of his physical limitations.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: That's
Speaker: I never would have expected that as the game and also what you would change.
Speaker: But I think that's a really good point.
Speaker: Personally, even if I were a video game character, I'd like to think that as I grow older, I change, I grow, I, you know...
Speaker: I mean, that's a physical aspect, right?
Speaker: When the player is injured for six months, obviously they probably grow fat or something.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I thought it would be a fun mechanic to add into the game, but that's just it.
Speaker: That would be quite fun, actually.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for all the insights you've given us and some really, really good insights into the Asian market and
Speaker: how you set up your own brand and how you've approached things like main game with RTM.
Speaker: So I think it's been such an eye opener.
Speaker: I thought I knew everything about Kakucho Puré, but clearly I've learned a lot from this conversation.
Speaker: So I really appreciate you sharing a lot of information.
Speaker: In terms of, you know, for our listeners, where they can find you or what's next for Kakucho Puré, where can they find you and what's next?
Speaker: All right, so obviously it's kakuchopure.com.
Speaker: That's where our main website is.
Speaker: We have the same thing on YouTube.
Speaker: I think we just broke 55 million views on YouTube.
Speaker: I think I saw that.
Speaker: Congrats.
Speaker: Yeah, hopefully we can hit 70 million by the end of the year.
Speaker: But that's just me being...
Speaker: I think you can do it.
Speaker: Yeah, let's hope it works that way.
Speaker: We're on Twitter, we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook.
Speaker: I'm not sure whether we're going to be any longer on Twitter based on how it is right now.
Speaker: Apart from that,
Speaker: Main Game is, we also add past episodes of Main Game on our YouTube channel.
Speaker: And hopefully we will release an official announcement about Main Game Season 2, which is coming up real soon.
Speaker: And you can even find me on Twitter.
Speaker: My name is Ken Leandri.
Speaker: That's about that.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much, Ken.
Speaker: Really appreciate you sharing your insights and your experience with us.
Speaker: And obviously I am so excited for season two of main game.
Speaker: So look, I'll look out for the announcement when that comes out.
Speaker: And yeah, I just really appreciate having the time to chat with you.
Speaker: Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker: And hopefully we will, we'll change the Asian market and the Asian landscape together.
Speaker: I think with, with, you know, all of us coming together and doing some good work.
Speaker: That's the plan.
Speaker: That's the plan.
Speaker: That's it for this week's episode.
Speaker: I'm Miss Dears Geek, and that was Ken Leandry from Kakuturperi.
Speaker: Thanks so much for tuning in, and don't forget to check out our socials at EquivoxGG or get in contact at hello at Equivox.gg.
Speaker: Stay tuned for the next one at Equivox Unplugged.
