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Reducing Stress and Anxiety for a More Joyful Holiday Season - with Lindsey Carnick
44 Plays15 days ago
Leanna is joined by licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist Lindsey Carnick to explore practical strategies for managing stress, navigating change, and embracing presence during the holiday season. In this dynamic conversation, they discuss reducing burnout, prioritizing self-care, and challenging the internal stories that shape our lives. The conversation delves into the cultural pressure to remain "always on," the importance of small, consistent efforts for well-being, and aligning responsibilities with personal values. With relatable insights and actionable advice, this episode offers a roadmap for finding balance and joy during one of the busiest times of the year for executive moms.
Full transcript available here.
Connect with Lindsey here and check out her practical tactical coping skills every Wednesday on Instagram.
Connect with Leanna here.
Struggling to juggle it all this holiday season? Join Leanna’s free webinars on December 10 and 19 at 2:30 PM EST for practical tips on managing holiday stress, unplugging from work, and staying present with your loved ones—register now at CoachLeanna.com!
Dec 10, 2:30 PM EST: Practical strategies for managing holiday tasks and stress.
Dec 19, 2:30 PM EST: Tips for unplugging from work and staying present with family.
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Transcript
Introduction and Holiday Stress Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi everyone. Before we jump into the show, I just wanted to share a quick update. I know that here in the month of December, it can feel very overwhelming, especially for working moms who are doing all the things to close up the year at work and do the annual reviews and close out the fiscal year while also doing all the things at home to make the holiday season magical and the present buying and the event planning and the activity juggling and all the things that are going on right now for you. So I wanted to design something that would help anyone who is in it right now to just bring us together for a quick few minutes and talk about stepping back and looking at the holiday season and actually enjoying the holiday season instead of just having to feel like you're going through the checklist and missing out on everything because you're just doing, doing, doing, going, going, going.
Webinars for Managing Holiday Stress
00:01:02
Speaker
So I have designed two webinars. One will be on December 10th, where I will be talking about the holiday season as a whole, some practical strategies for juggling all the things and minimizing overwhelm. and actually enjoying the holiday season at least a little bit. And in the second webinar on December 19th, I'll be talking about how to avoid checking your email on Christmas or any holiday that you're celebrating and talking about how to remain present in whatever you're doing over the holiday break.
00:01:37
Speaker
so that that way you can show up in the way that you want to and you can feel really good and not have all the guilt of feeling like you missed out on your kid's Christmas or your kid's Hanukkah. So, both webinars will take place at 2.30 p.m. EST on those days. If you go to my website, coachleana.com, you'll find all the details. You can register and you can watch live or on demand. These are both free webinars and I would also love it if you could share this with a friend or colleague who may also be feeling the stress of the holidays and could benefit as well.
Introduction to Podcast and Hosts
00:02:12
Speaker
I'd really love to help this reach more people because I know how challenging this time of year can be and I just wanna help. So I really hope to see you there. All right, now on to our show.
00:02:31
Speaker
Welcome to the Executive Coach for Moms podcast, where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host, Leanne Alaski McGrath, former tech exec turned full-time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic and certified executive coach.
Guest Introduction: Lindsay Karnik
00:02:53
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining me this week. And I have with me a special guest today. Her name is Lindsay Karnik, and I'm so excited to introduce her and to have this conversation. So welcome, Lindsay. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, so glad to have you and Lindsay and I touched base yesterday about what we wanted to talk about. I said if you're open to an organic conversation, those are my favorite kind to have and she's totally game for it. So I'm so excited that you are because that's the kind of conversations I love to have. So maybe if we could start off if you can just kind of introduce yourself and tell everyone a little bit about you.
00:03:33
Speaker
Sure. So my name is Lindsay Karnik and I'm a LCSW licensed clinical social worker.
Managing Change, Anxiety, and Stress
00:03:38
Speaker
I'm a psychotherapist. I've been doing this for about 15 years. I see adult individuals and couples and my specialty is change. Now within that I also see a lot of folk for anxiety and stress management. Those are my two sort of concerns of interest and specialty, but I'm really deeply interested in anybody who wants some kind of change. And if that's internal change or external change, both of those things are equally compelling to me. And and that's what everybody I see has in common is that they're looking for some kind of change. In addition to that, I speak nationally at conventions, retreats, continuing education events, and a whole sort of a wide range of
00:04:21
Speaker
speaking platforms where people are wanting to learn. and very concrete, practical, tactical ways of doing stress management and burnout prevention. My theory is that everybody knows what would be helpful to them. It's just that few people have the time to do what would really be helpful to them.
Self-Care and Societal Expectations
00:04:40
Speaker
So I specialize in these very practical, immediately applicable sort of techniques and strategies that people can utilize immediately without any special carve out of time or resources or facilities.
00:04:53
Speaker
Yeah. All of us can relate to not feeling like we ever have enough time and we have all these wonderful recommendations and things that we know would maybe make things better for us, but it can be challenging to find, you know, to carve out the time whenever we've got so many responsibilities at work and at home and every aspect of our lives. I'm curious how change fits in to anxiety and stress management are kind of like, what's the through thread?
00:05:20
Speaker
Well, certainly feeling anxious is something that many people want a change from. okay right People want to have a change of experience, yes? that That living in a state of anxiety or frequently experiencing anxiety or high levels of stress is something that people would like to have be different in their lives.
00:05:39
Speaker
air It's such a conundrum because often change itself is very stressful for many people, but they do want something different than what they have. Yeah. We use the phrase comfortably uncomfortable, right? Where people are sort of uncomfortable, but the idea of doing something different is both appealing and terrifying. Yeah. Or it seems inaccessible, which is also sort of daunting.
Being Present and Avoiding Perfectionism
00:06:05
Speaker
and anxiety provoking in other ways. We were talking about time a second ago. you know So many people struggle with feeling like the things that they want to do or that they could do aren't good enough, right? That time should look like something that if you are going to take care of yourself, then you must have 60 minutes to go to yoga.
00:06:28
Speaker
If you are going to take a walk, then you must have X amount of time to make it worth it, to make it count, right? And that's a tremendous amount of pressure. And so most people would like to get out from under that pressure. And yet,
00:06:44
Speaker
have sort of landed in a place where they go, but I can't make more time, so where's the out? And I'm deeply interested in helping people find those hidden sources of freedom, where he says, okay, you don't have to make more time. I wouldn't want you to. and But if you can figure it out, let me know, because I'm also deeply interested. I'd be deeply interested in that, if you figured out the trick. But how do we create freedom for ourselves right, where there seems to be nothing but constraint. And that, to me, is the most exciting part of change. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And it sounds like you're saying you don't necessarily need to take more time, but it's like, how can we actually be more accessible, be less time to get more time? Yes, yes. How can we sort of move laterally within the the constraints as opposed to fighting the constraints, right? There's a ah wonderful ah working psychologist named Chad Lejeune, and he has this
00:07:40
Speaker
analogy about a smelly gorilla sitting in your living room and you don't like the smelly gorilla. Well, the fastest way to dislike it even more is to wrestle it, right? So most people are saying I don't like the smelly gorilla and I'm going to wrestle it, right? So they're getting more and more of this thing that they don't like, right? Up close and personal and in close quarters. And the game is always to figure out how we can go okay.
00:08:05
Speaker
There's a smelly gorilla sitting on my couch. How am I going to work with this so that I'm not experiencing the smelly gorilla that I hate all the time and I'm going to let it sit on my couch because fighting it gets me more wrapped up in the thing I say I don't want. Yeah. And I think that that your point of it feeling like it's not enough if I'm going to work out, well, I have to carve out such a large amount of time that I can never find in my calendar. How will I ever do that? I think that makes so much sense and and resonates as well. I remember it's kind of like I think in our high achiever perfectionist brains, we think that we have to kind of go all the way or it's not worth doing at all. I remember even when I was starting this podcast, it took me months.
00:08:50
Speaker
To actually launch it because i kept thinking well what if i started and then i you know get distracted or what if i get sick what if i can't keep producing and what if i can't do it consistently and. Eventually it's like well i'm not doing it at all anyway. yeah ah Like, why am I so great? What if I just did it and and tried it and started and then I'll just do what I can and some weeks I'm not going to post whenever I can't post. And I think exercise as, you know, as the example that we're talking about is kind of like, well, I either have to be completely on an exercise routine and I need to be doing it consistently and I need to be doing it for a set amount of time a day. I can't just go for a walk right now because I'm not on an exercise routine.
00:09:36
Speaker
Right. or Or it's not Instagrammable. It doesn't seem to sit the fit some sort of profile or external set of criteria about what this is supposed to look like, right? Yeah. um I think I was telling you my great horror and delight at this Apple watch situation. The first time I ever saw an Apple watch, I don't know how we were, what we were talking about exactly, it but somebody said, Oh, and you would probably be really interested because there's a function on this thing. And it's a breathing exercise. And this person was already getting sort of like dismissive about it.
00:10:06
Speaker
there's a breathing exercise. I don't know. There's a little picture. You follow the picture. I'm like, blood show show me, show me, show me, show me, show me, shows me the apple watch breathing thing, which I'm sure is still on apple watches where the little picture expands and contracts, right? And one QZ to inhale and one QZ to exhale. And I said, Oh my gosh, that's, I love them so much. That's incredible. And this person was like, well, I mean,
00:10:28
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know. What are you going to do? Like breathe for three minutes? I was like, yeah. Yeah, you should. You should definitely do that. But there was a sense that like nobody ever wanted to put a picture on Instagram of them like sitting there breathing to their Apple watch, right? People want to put pictures on Instagram of doing headstands on beaches or that fits this criteria of like majestic by the other name.
Impact of Social Media and Mindsets
00:10:50
Speaker
And I think that's a real daunting thing to be surrounded by, right? Because it does create the sense that there's a threshold for what counts and what doesn't count. And many of us go, that you know, this is the culture that brought you that expression, go big or go home. I guess I'm going home because I certainly don't have time to go big. And I don't go beach also. And that's a real shame because so many of us are missing out on things that could be so deeply helpful to us and meaningful to us. And when we get in that all or nothing thinking, like you were mentioning about the podcast, right perfection is the enemy of good enough.
00:11:30
Speaker
I mean, one podcast is more than zero, yeah right? It's all bonus points. Everything is in the plus column, whether it's one minute, or four minutes, or 400 minutes, and the aggregate are all at once. It's all good. Literally, it's all good.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I would also say even if we don't plan to post it on Instagram, I think it's like seeing it all the time and seeing the expectation of what it should be, what it's expected to be, what other people are doing. Then even if we're not trying to share it, our culture is so ingrained in us and we see it all the time and think, well, that's what they're doing. Like I'm not able to do that. So should I even bother doing it at all?
00:12:14
Speaker
ah hundred I completely agree. I think whether you actually have Instagram or any intent, so to speak, is completely irrelevant. I think there's this internalized sort of framework that says, does the thing I'm thinking about meet some kind of criteria? And if the answer is no, then why why bother? Why am I going to do that? Yeah. So how would you answer that question? Like, why bother? a I want people to be present and not miss out on their lives deeply. agree And I want to experience my life. I want to experience my life. I do not want to wake up periodically and go, Oh, I was living up here. I was living in a dream. I was living in all these other places other than the one that then what's happening. And I think every time we bother, we are
00:13:09
Speaker
prioritizing being in our lives and not missing out on our lives. And I find that so deeply compelling, especially living in a culture that in many ways encourages us to stay zoned out and not be present. You know, you can no more purchase something, whether it's in person or online, being pinged about the next thing that you should purchase.
00:13:29
Speaker
You're like, well, I just got this thing. how What do you mean? I enjoy this pair of pants for two seconds. No, no, no, no. You don't even have that pair of pants yet. and And you're being prompted to think about the next pair of pants, right? um yeah We are constantly being pushed to sort of mentally hoard experiences and items and things that we don't yet have. And when we participate in that, we're missing out on on what's happening right now because we're living out ahead in some place that doesn't exist yet, including the next pair of pants. And I find that horrifying and tragic. And I don't want to experience that. That's why I bother. How about you? Why do you bother?
00:14:15
Speaker
ah I would say similarly, I think it's like, because whenever I think about at the end of my life looking back, well, am I going to be happier if I put out one podcast episode or zero? Am I going to be happier that I tried to stay engaged in my life or that I stayed zoned out?
00:14:34
Speaker
Even if I didn't do it perfectly, am I going to be happier that I attempted? Or am I going to be happier that I just said, well, you know, why bother? and just let it Yeah, I think for me, that would be why to bother. It's because I think that that's more of the life that I want to live that I will feel happier about when I look back on my life that and I'm glad I did it that way.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah. And so many people are missing out. We're missing out on what I would call really quiet majesty of the present, right? It's interesting in the sense that I think in the last decade or so, you know, people have become, mindfulness has become very much a buzzword and being intentional. It's sort of a buzzy concept, right? But I think there's also this sense that being mindfulness and dialed and present is more important during some moments than others, which is interesting. And I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that. Certainly some moments are more monumental than others and some you're going to feel sadder that you missed out on than others. And also, I don't think the reverence for presence should be reserved to like your kid's graduation or these like big moments that are sort of like the capital boldface, do not miss out on ones, right?
00:15:54
Speaker
There's so much time that we don't pay attention to. I can give you a perfect example. You and I are both sitting right now. You're sitting wherever you're sitting. up you know in These rooms were indoors. But if we took a second and just noticed how good it is in that space you're sitting in, it's not exceptional in the sense that you're not in some amazing art gallery surrounded by amazing art.
00:16:17
Speaker
But the environment that you're sitting in right now, the environment I'm sitting on, it's climate controlled. The temperature in here, it's lovely. The lighting is good. I'm talking to somebody nice and friendly. This moment is so good. It's not big and bold like the cover of you know Vanity Fair good, but it's good. And I want to be present for those moments because there are so many of them. And it's so easy for people to get distracted, I think, and just be intentional about being present for the big shiny ones that, you know, make the top 10 hits list, right? And also, there's so many good ones that don't make that list the time, right? We don't need to be running from peak experience to peak experience, being intentional only about peak experiences because we're aware of their peak experiences.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a quote from a movie. I can't remember where it's from, but I remember it being something about like in the scrapbooks, you have all these you know pictures of the big events and you know the the the core memories and things like that.
Lindsay's Journey and Insights from Academia
00:17:24
Speaker
But all the in-between that happens, like in between those pictures, that's I love that. It's the ones you don't frame. Exactly. The the day-to-day, sure you know, mundane, monotonous, good, normal, right? That we don't always yeah take the time to really soak in. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think my family likes to tease me because I like vegetables a lot. Often I don't put any seasoning on them and they think this is ridiculous and criness.
00:17:59
Speaker
and and unsophisticated, non-civilized. And my thing is that I love the way this stuff tastes. I love the way this stuff tastes with nothing. I like a good ranch dip as much as and a green goddess dip as much as the next person on the carrot. I really do. But I also love a plain carrot. Cooked raw, don't care. I also love sweet potato with nothing on it, not cooked and Garlic, no butter, no nothing. I mean, the flavor is really amazing. Now, is it the same as when you know my mother-in-law does something outrageously impressive with a sweet potato you know and and makes it into something spectacular? Of course not. It's different. It's not less good. and So I'm curious about what brought you to this work. a Well, there's what brought me and then there's what brought me, I suppose.
00:18:46
Speaker
ah okay yeah you I once upon a time was in a PhD program in the humanities. And I did a couple of years of that. And I thought to myself, i I don't see myself in this for the rest of days. I just don't. This has been incredibly interesting and fun, but I can't see myself as an academic.
00:19:06
Speaker
And at the same time, I made a friend who was working on a nonprofit. And he said to me, you're not doing anything. Come work for me part time. I you know i need a warm body. And I said, yeah, right. And I went and did that. He was running this really innovative, incredible program in community mental health that was really remarkable. um And I said, this is interesting. This is really, really interesting. And I sort of got interested in social work. And so I bailed out of this PhD program I was in when I got a master's in social work.
00:19:32
Speaker
And my intention was to be a policy wonk. I really believed in macro the macro level really matters, and I still do. I believe the upstream conditions really, really matter to people's lives. And when I got out of grad school, I fully intended to go into something in policy or analysis, systems, systems change.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I had been trained, no matter what, you're trained as therapists in the clinical social work program. And the first thing I fell into, which had a tantalizing temptation called benefits, a years in grad school, and that's that's a big, glowy word, yeah was working as a therapist in a maximum security prison for juvenile males. And that was a life-changing experience.
00:20:19
Speaker
there was so much that I experienced there that pushed me and grew me in so many different directions and also started me on growth trajectories that I hope will never have an end point. I really deeply hope.
00:20:35
Speaker
And I learned a lot there about change and stories and how stories and change do and do not intersect. And I found that so deeply compelling. And it also really prompted me to think deeply about my own stories and how those things impacted me.
00:20:59
Speaker
and what that meant for me and my other vectors in life. And that is where I really started being a therapist, I think, in the philosophical sense because I started thinking through what it meant for change to happen in people's lives. And that continues to be incredibly compelling to me and incredibly meaningful to me. That's how I got started.
00:21:26
Speaker
Yeah. Well, tell me more about stories. So you're talking about like the stories that we tell ourselves? Yeah. So everybody has a collection of stories about themselves, right? And some of those stories are explicit and some aren't. Yes. Some of them are ones we know very well and that we can sort of make self-deprecating comments about or toss off. about How many times will somebody sort of make a joke about what role they played in their family. You know, oh, I was the golden child. Ha, ha, ha. You know, what comes with that? Or I was the i was the black sheep. Ha, ha, ha. You know, what comes with that, right? We point to these storylines, these sort of narratives and tropes that are very familiar. And yet it seems to me that often our ability to point to them obscures from us how meaningful they are. because they are still animating us in very important ways. And just because we sort of have our eye on them doesn't mean they're not influential. chair yeah And I think that's very important. And I think you know stories
00:22:27
Speaker
is equivalent to meaning making for humans, right? That's how we do it. We make meaning out of events by creating stories around those events and explanations and justifications. And those frameworks, in my experience, have really important ramifications for how we then go out and show up in our lives. And that has ramifications for the directions in which our lives go and which doors open and which doors close and what it looks like when we go through those doors and maybe even why we choose some doors over others, maybe to our detriment. I think that's profoundly important for most people.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah, and it sounds like from working in the prison, you saw kind of maybe some stories that led to the choices that were made or the outcome. Oh, for sure. And and for sure, people's ability to envision themselves doing something differently, which could mean a lot of different things, right? But the strength of your storyline I mean, a storyline isn't through narrative. So the stronger your storyline or multiple storylines, the more inevitable you see a certain climax and conclusion as, right? And so when we're committed to those storylines, whether we think it's inevitable or we've chosen it, or it's uncomfortable to imagine something else, or we just don't believe it's possible to have something else, it's meaningful, it's impactful.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah. Like I'm unlovable, so I can't have a relationship. I'm not smart enough. So I can't get that promotion or can't get that, you know, be in that role that I want to be in that kind of thing.
00:24:03
Speaker
Sure. it's i'm I'm the responsible one. So I can't try certain things or take a different direction because I'm the one who has to hold everybody else up. And if it is to be, it is up to me. Very dangerous storyline, right? Very limited limit storyline. And often I think along with those people have a tremendous amount of fear that is understandable because we are comfortable in those roles. yeah I mean, even when we're uncomfortable, we're comfortable, right? And it it can be very intimidating to imagine trying on a new role that you're not good at. yeah Because you know by the time we get to adulthood, we are experts in in those roles, right? And so
00:24:47
Speaker
expertise is always very comfortable. Yeah. And people brain hard is very uncomfortable. Absolutely. Well, it's just like what you were talking about with anxiety earlier. It's uncomfortable in some ways and also comfortable in other ways because it's kind of like, you know, I think it's why people stay in roles at companies that they don't like or, you know, that aren't unfulfilling because they're like, well, at least I know what this one entails.
00:25:08
Speaker
Right. It's kind of the the devil, you know, is that the saying? Absolutely. Yeah. It's the familiarity factor. Yes. It's uncomfortable, but at least it's predictable. And I will take uncomfortable and predictable over unpredictable. Even if it could be exponentially better, but. Yes. Yeah.
Anxiety, Beliefs, and Personal Growth
00:25:27
Speaker
Yes. Cause it could also be exponentially worse and I'm not willing to run that risk. Yes. Absolutely. So it sounds like then you, do you talked about learning about change and stories there.
00:25:38
Speaker
And then was anxiety and stress management a big part of of that or did that kind of evolve over time in terms of the kinds of people that you were seeing and issues that you were dealing with? Yes and yes. So certainly every experience that I've had as a therapist has always had a component to it. you know Being human is a fundamentally anxious experience. And what makes folks anxious certainly varies from person to person. But everybody's got some things they're concerned about. right Now, that's different from saying, I'm not saying everybody has clinical anxiety. That's not true at all. I would be very clear about that. But the experience of feeling uncertain and not liking that feeling is basically universal, right at least under some conditions for people.
00:26:27
Speaker
my interest in anxiety has been a through line for as long as I've been doing what I'm doing simply because it's so prevalent for so many people who are seeking change, right? And that's what people seek out a therapist for. They want something to be different, whether it's a relationship to be different, whether it's a job to be different, whether it's some internal experience they're having to be different. There is usually yeah worry associated with either continuing to have more of the same, or doing something different, or the daunting possibility that nothing can be different. That's very worry-provoking. I'm going to use the word worry instead of anxiety. yes So I think it's a through line in the sense that many people seeking out care
00:27:18
Speaker
are dealing with some kind of negative feelings around a change that maybe has already happened, maybe might happen, maybe they want to happen, maybe they don't want to have happen. It's a through theme, for sure. Well, I think the thing you just said is so interesting. That story that nothing can be different is just that, right? A story. It's a belief that we're holding. Even if we might want it to be different, a lot of times we might have a story that it can't be because we're holding the world up or whatever, whatever circumstances or situation that we're in, we might have this like very deeply helped belief that nothing can change, that it's just the way that it is, is the way it has to be. Yes. Or we've imagined in many cases, a set of consequences that will result from say, setting down a certain storyline about ourselves.
00:28:15
Speaker
And the specter of those consequences is so daunting that it's intolerable. It doesn't mean that those consequences are inevitable. It just means it's what we're imagining because usually when people imagine the consequences of making a change,
00:28:29
Speaker
So for example, you know you you mentioned not taking care of everybody, right? Like not doing that. People imagine that everybody else will absolutely fall apart, right? That sounds like a very undesirable consequence, especially for people you love and care about or whatever the conditions are, right? And our beliefs about what will happen if we set those things down, are usually rooted in some old things, not contemporary reality. And that's always interesting for people. Often, when people feel like they can't stop being something or stop being some way, because that's the example we're talking about, right? When someone believes, let's make up an easy example,
00:29:15
Speaker
that if they were to stop running to the rescue every time person F in their life needed whatever, right? Then that person would just have nobody and it's usually not accurate. It's usually a sort of inflated sense of responsibility and an inflated sense of anxiety about what happens if I stop doing this and then this person doesn't get what they need and and now it's my fault.
00:29:42
Speaker
it's my fault because I could have done it and I didn't do it. And so I'm now responsible for them not getting the fill in the blank, whatever it was, ride to the airport, next and fears really trap people into believing that they have to maintain these roles forever. If for no other reason than the anticipated Catastrophize consequences are so daunting that they go, you know what? I'd rather live with this sort of uncomfortableness that yes be anxious that that's going to be the result. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like if there's going to be anxiety either way.
00:30:25
Speaker
that's exactly exactly Yeah, I'm smiling about your story of rushing to someone's rescue because I remember in a therapy session ma explaining this situation to my therapist and her question to me was, what is it that makes you believe that you need to be the hero in this person's story?
00:30:46
Speaker
And I was like, oh God. i was like one of It was one of those moments that I'll always remember because I was just like, I'd never imagined that it could be any other way. And also I never had it put to me that way that that that's what I was doing, but it really was what I was you know believing what was needed every time this person needed something.
00:31:10
Speaker
And Lamont, the writer, has a great quote, which is, helping is the sunny side of control. And I always thought that was so profound, right? Because in many instances, our helping instinct is really mitigating our own sense of anxiety, not the other person's. They're not worried about finding another ride to the airport nearly as much as you're worried about them not finding another ride to the airport and then you being the bad guy, right? Nine times out of ten.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, as we're thinking about, so obviously the holidays are coming up and this is a stressful, anxiety inducing, I think time for a lot of people, especially moms, executive moms, you know, we're trying to close out our year and, you know, make sure that we end the year strong at work and also make the holidays magical for our kids and plan all of the things, all of the family events, make sure that everyone has what they need and
00:32:13
Speaker
You know, we get get everyone around to all the people and and there's just a lot, right?
Holiday Stress for Moms and Value Alignment
00:32:18
Speaker
And that our houses look wonderful and that we have things for all of the class parties and all of the parties that we're going to. And it's this time of year, I think can be a lot. And I guess I'm just curious, any thoughts that you have, advice that you have, you know, things that might be helpful for folks to think about during this time of year specifically.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yes, the number one question that I would recommend that everyone, myself included, keep firmly ah in their crosshairs is what are my values? And is this thing in this moment a way of living out my values or something else? Because so much of the things that we put on the must-do list are not actually must-dos in accordance with our values. And that works in a couple of different ways. One is we have an an incongruent sense of what matters where. Example,
00:33:17
Speaker
If you signed up to host your kid's third grade holiday party, ka your kid, nor any of the other kids are going to remember whether you homemade cupcakes and put all the little doodads on the top and had the perfect little ruffly cake cup and whether they were you know Snoopy with a ice cream cone Christmas tree or whether you bought a 12 pack of cookies.
00:33:43
Speaker
They won't, they really won't remember. And if your value is your kid knows you show up for them, what matters is is that you're there with a 12 pack of cookies. Not that you brought the prettiest cupcakes that anybody ever saw in their whole life.
00:34:01
Speaker
And sometimes in the pursuing of our values, which is always noble, I want my kid to know that I care, we miss the mark, we overshoot the mark and get into the territory of ego. Not only will my kid know that I care, but I will show up with the prettiest cupcakes anybody ever saw so that these other parents will all thank Phil in the blank and the teacher will thank Phil in the blank, et cetera, et cetera. And we really need to gently reality test those ideas right? Because anybody who's ever interfaced with a teacher knows that a teacher knows good and well that your parenting has nothing to do with how fancy the cupcakes are you brought.
00:34:40
Speaker
right? The teacher has some crystal clear criteria on how they're judging your parenting, and the cupcake elaborate is not one of those metrics, right? and And similarly, we can get caught up, you know, we get caught up in like, what will other parents think what you know, this person always brings something really, really elaborate, etc, etc. That's fine. That's that's their life, right? And you don't you don't know anything about them. And they don't know anything about you.
00:35:05
Speaker
you are the expert on your values and what it looks like to live your values and to weed out anything else that is not an expression of those values.
00:35:16
Speaker
And we have to ask ourselves when it comes to these things that create so much duress, especially in the holidays, and ah what is the reason for which I am doing this thing? And is it really in the service of something that's meaningful to me or am I getting distracted? Am I getting caught up by ah metrics that I imagine are swirling around me, which to some degree may be real or imagined, but you get a choice about whether you participate in that.
00:35:45
Speaker
you'll get a choice about whether you participate in that. yeah And I come back to that again and again. you know When people feel conflicted around the holidays, it's often because they feel like there are so many demands on them, right as you point out. And I think our job is to go through those demands and triage which ones are in alignment with our values yeah and which ones aren't. And then things get actually pretty simple and pretty clicker. Yeah.
00:36:14
Speaker
Well, I love so much everything you just said. And a couple of things that popped up for me is when you were talking about doing it for, you know, the teacher or the other parents, that kind of thing. I think also sometimes we do things because we have this expectations of ourselves. And especially I noticed that when we lean more into work, like when it's a busier time at work, then we start feeling guilty. We start feeling like, oh, I'm not giving enough over here in this other area of my life. And so I need to like,
00:36:42
Speaker
push harder over here and give more over here. And it ends up that we just keep giving, giving, giving and you know depleting ourselves. And so sometimes it might be that we're trying to make the fanciest cupcakes to prove to ourselves that we care about our kids, right? And not just our jobs. Yeah, sure. And and it's up to all of us again to slow down and really be thoughtful about what we're doing.
00:37:12
Speaker
Byron Katie, who I love, great book, yeah? Oh, I love Byron Katie, right? Who Would You Be Without Your Story? Do you really believe that making the fanciest cupcakes makes you a caring parent or makes your kid believe, you know what I mean? You don't believe that. You don't i absolutely believe that. Nobody believes that because the kid's like, cupcake, meh. And they don't care if it came from the store or you or the moon. They really, really don't, right? So we have to ask ourselves, do I believe this belief that's driving me right now? Am I being,
00:37:41
Speaker
Driven by a concept that i don't even buy into and often you know that's the essence of mindlessness is being driven on thinking we unconsciously by something that you don't buy into.
00:37:54
Speaker
And I think that's true for many of us at many points in our lives where we feel caught up in or swept up in occurrence of what we ought to be doing or what love looks like or what gratitude looks like. and And so I'm doing the thing, but it's really not our expression of the thing. And that feels so icky because it's so disingenuous.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think that the busier we get, a lot of times the easier it is to go mindless, just to like fall into that pattern where we're like, well, I don't have time to think about my values. I don't have time to think about what I want because, you know, I'm just going. And that's, I think often what our instinct is to do is just put our heads down and just get the job done and keep moving forward, keep trudging forward. And that I think then leads to some of those times where we're spending way more time than we have to make this newbie cupcakes. And we we don't stop and ask ourselves, why am I doing this? And you know what value does it really have? And it's like we feel like we can't stop and check in with ourselves and have that level of mindfulness. And it's so ironic because it would save us so much more time to buy the cookies at the store than to you know spend hours making the cupcakes.
00:39:11
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it it's hard. I'm really empathetic. I struggle with this myself. Certainly the cookie thing is funny because I come from a family where my mom was a baker and I mean like professionally and she has strong feelings about homemade things. Oh yeah. Really strong feelings about homemade things, right? Yeah. And I can remember getting to a point in my life and I can remember several instances where I would be forcing myself to bake things at crazy hours that made no sense yeah for something the next day that people, firstly, did not care about. And secondly, would not have taken it. we It wouldn't fall twice about it, right? If I had showed up with a box of cookies instead of a plate of cookies, nobody would have noticed, the let alone thought about it. theyre cookies, right? But I had this story about how if I didn't hand make things, people would think I didn't care about them.
00:40:10
Speaker
People would think that I took them for granted and just would like, oh, whatever from the store will do. This whole storyline about what it would mean to people ye if I didn't show up with something homemade. And luckily for me, I started reality testing that theory at some point. And I discovered that people just thought I was nuts.
00:40:32
Speaker
actually. They did not translate it into like, oh, you really care. They were like, oh, you're bonkers. You said, you said, wow, I don't know why you did that. I wouldn't have done that. That's nuts, right? Yeah. They actually just thought it was straight bonkers. I've been carrying around this story that says, if I don't execute this like this, then these people will think this, and then they'll think this about me, and then it's all downhill from there. And that whole storyline was absolute bunk.
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, you can bet to this day, I still have a little bit of like a should probably make something, you know, that's my first default reaction. And that's okay. Because I recognize that not as a fact or the way things are. I recognize that as this really Lovely expression of something i value which is other people feeling valued and at some point i was confused about expressions of value right and what i discovered is that when you bring something to somebody something they say oh.
00:41:37
Speaker
Thank you. And they don't overthink it about like, well, she bought this versus baked it. So does that mean she likes me more or less? Or she values this relationship enough to bake me something or not enough to bake me something? Nobody thinks like this. Nobody. Right? Me. I mean, only me. Although, interestingly, I would never judge somebody for that.
00:41:56
Speaker
When somebody shows up at my fill in the blank event and they've purchased something, I never think to myself, oh gosh, this person doesn't really care because if they did, they would have baked this by hand. That thought has never occurred to me. Yet somehow I went through most of my life assuming that if I did that, I would be judged as flat terrible.
00:42:17
Speaker
Well, it's very interesting how we do this. Our brains tell us that this is so important for us, even though we can logically recognize that we don't think that way in the reverse. Yes. I mean, you know, that that poor person named I, we rake over the coals in ways that we would never trick anybody else. But this I character really gets the short end of the stick every single time. we are really rough on I. And I think it's helpful in some ways to maybe think about I as an entity. Like, and are you holding I to the same standard, you would hold Liana? And if the answer is no, which it probably is, then you might want to recalibrate a little bit, right? Because if it's good enough for Liana, it's good enough for I.
00:43:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier about like our mindset and story about that. Like if we don't go all the way, then it's not worth doing, especially around the holidays. It's like, we've got to make sure that everything, you know, the lights are up and the garland and the decorations and the tree and whatever else, you know, that we need to make sure is done in the presence. It's like, we've got to do it all the way or not at all. And I think that,
00:43:35
Speaker
recognizing that that is a story and and it's an option, we could do it all the way. And here would be the consequences of that. Or we could buy the cookies or we could, you know, we could do it good enough. We could do it you know to make sure that it's done. And what you were talking about earlier kind of made me think about the importance of just like stepping back and looking at that macro view. And I think so often when we're in it and we're going and doing things and we get so caught up in like each little thing, each little task, all of the little micro things.
00:44:10
Speaker
and I think it's important to remind ourselves to step back and look at the the macro view. like Holistically, this holiday season, what are we doing and is it enough? not Is each little thing going to be enough? I love that and I totally agree with that. and and To your point about, you know you said a second ago going all the way, what does that mean? i mean What do we think are the consequences of not doing that? like What exactly is the fallout?
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah, well, our kids won't feel loved, right? Like our kids will have a terrible holiday. They won't be as great as every all the other kids. Right. Which of course is patently not true because what we know about what makes things meaningful for kids. I mean, we know this empirically, right? Is that A, comparison is the thief of joy, and B, it's adults who are in comparison mode, right? Kids don't, you know, it's adults who know I could have, I could have baked real cookies, but I chose not to.
00:45:09
Speaker
The kid just goes, cookie, great, I'm ecstatic. And the fact that you didn't spend two and a half hours on this meant you spent two and a half hours doing a puzzle with me. Yes, I love that. Right? You you you bought yourself time back that's in alignment with your values. you know If you ask a kid, and i I would not try and ask a kid this because it would be a complicated question for a kid, but we can think it through. If you said to a kid,
00:45:33
Speaker
well mommy can't play with you right now because she's baking you cookies but then you're gonna have cookies versus do you want a cookie right now that i'm pull out of this bag or this box and we can do a puzzle the kid's gonna pick the second one yeah every time and you and you can every time and you could sort of like People try to do this, you know, it's like, well, you know, mommy's making special cookies and trust me, they're better than this. None of this means anything. Kids want your time. They really, really, really want your time and attention, right? And everything else is pretty much gravy unless you frame it for them as, well, this thing is more valuable. So we're doing it this way.
00:46:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's, you know, when we teach them comparison, we teach them how to steal joy from themselves.
Perfectionism in Professional and Personal Life
00:46:16
Speaker
Because instead of being like, Oh, cookie, they go, Oh, I could have had a homemade cookie, except no kids said that ever.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah. and then they And then they grow up and bake in all hours of the night to make sure that... Exactly. For staff meetings. For people who don't care. Right. I think the other thing that happens is that whenever we put so much pressure on ourselves and we spend all this extra time doing all these extra things, we actually end up stressing ourselves out a lot more. And then we don't usually show up in the way that we want to with our kids. Right. And so it's like, not only are we not doing the puzzle, but now we are a little bit more on edge, a little bit more stressed, a little bit more easy to anger, you know, a little more snappy. Well, and especially, you know, frustrated if they don't appreciate the thing that we're doing. Yeah. I was going to say primed for resentment. Yeah, absolutely. Kids.
00:47:11
Speaker
are one easy example, but adults too, adults don't. Again, the people in my staff meeting don't know that I stayed up all night baking unless I advertise it. right So now there's this expectation on my part, whether I admit it or not, right whether I'm conscious of it or not, that this will be appreciated, that I made all this effort. Nobody knows.
00:47:30
Speaker
And again, if they did, they'll be like your bonkers. I bought burritos on my way. Yay, me. You are a terrible um decision maker, lady. And then we create a story that no one appreciates us. and Yes. Yes. And that we're unseen and unheard and unsung. And you did that to yourself, right? Yeah. It is very in the culture like we talked about. it is whi Almost every woman that I talk to looks at her value to an organization as the time put in how hard she works, not necessarily her inherent worth or her intelligence, you know, that kind of thing. It's more like I'm going to be the hardest worker on the team. I'm going to always go above and beyond and do whatever it takes. And I think that we have kind of been trained to show people that we care and prove our worth and value by working harder.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yes, I totally agree with that. And being aware of that and sort of sitting with and tolerating the little bit of mild distress with the idea that comes along with letting go of that, right? I mean, that's not an easy thing to just let go of.
00:48:47
Speaker
Because depending on the conditions, you know, we've been sort of socialized to believe there are consequences to that, right? There's a reason women are overcompensating. It didn't come from nowhere. And yet we still get to make a decision about our values and what we want our lives to be about.
00:49:08
Speaker
and there may always be or frequently be some tension there and there may frequently be a sense that we can't be all things to all people because that's true and it's up to us to set the tone of saying I don't have to be all things to all people and I'm okay with that and be willing to be if judged as the word then so be it because only I'm living my life and either I'm going to do that in accordance with my values or I'm going to do it in accordance with somebody else's values and I'm going to choose mine. Yeah it's just like you know we said before there's anxiety either way there's consequences either way right of anything that we choose if we choose to live
00:50:04
Speaker
thinking about what everyone, you know, making sure that we're all things to all people, then there are a set of consequences that go along with that and the set of benefits as well. And if we choose to say, I'm going to live in alignment with my values, same thing, right? there There's still a set of consequences that goes with it and a set of benefits. And it's just to your point, we get to choose which ones we want to bring with us.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think what I would add to that is that I think often our set of beliefs about the consequences of choosing not to be all things to all people are not congruent with the reality. And that gets back to like, do you really believe that your kid or your teacher is going to think differently of you because you made the most elaborate cupcakes or didn't? Some of the consequences, not all, some of the consequences are imaginary.
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Or imagined, right? And so I think that matters. Yeah. Because when we start to make decisions about which values we're going to show up for and which values we're going to you know prioritize and be in alignment with, if we're making those decisions based on inaccurate beliefs about what the consequences are of not doing that, then that's skewing the experiment for sure.
Boundaries, Self-Care, and Emotional Misconceptions
00:51:22
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:51:24
Speaker
Well, I love this conversation and and I think that hopefully we're giving everyone just some things to think about in this holiday season as we are feeling the stress and anxiety of wanting to be all things to all people and, you know, having these very high unrealistic expectations ah of ourselves as we tend to do. So I'm curious, Lindsay, is there anything else that you would want to share or offer for folks to think about, you know, that might be helpful as we're getting into this season?
00:52:01
Speaker
Yes, a couple of things. One is I can't emphasize enough the power of modeling. And sometimes it's hard for people, myself included, to think it's back to the, you know, that person named I and what what that person should or should not be getting or treated. right It's hard to do things for ourselves to convince ourselves that it's worth it to do it for ourselves.
00:52:25
Speaker
And modeling things like boundaries and living in accordance with your values is so good for other people, too. We are not doing anybody a favor when we allow them to run over our boundaries or when we allow them to talk us into something we don't want to do or twist our arm into something we don't have time for. You are not helping them by going along with that. You are actually doing them a disservice, believe it or not.
00:52:53
Speaker
And sometimes it's helpful to try and remember that if you won't do it for your own sake, do it for theirs. You're not doing them any favors. You're not helping them learn how to be successful in the world with other people by letting railroad you. It's not a good way to get your needs met. And eventually that's going to be a losing strategy for them. So you can help them get on the road to success by not enabling that behavior. ah Yeah.
00:53:21
Speaker
That's a good thing for them, right? Yeah. And sometimes I think of it that way when I'm struggling to do it for myself, so to speak. Well, I love that perspective. I think so often, similarly, I will recommend to moms to you know think about if you can't do it for yourself, do it for how you're going to show up for your kids, or right? Absolutely. Because a lot of times, to your point, I totally agree. We have a hard time justifying doing something for ourselves, but whenever it will benefit somebody else, then sometimes it feels a little bit more accessible. So I love that perspective. and More justifiable.
00:54:02
Speaker
The other thing I would say is is about the idea of gratitude, which I think is an interesting, you know powerful concept, but that also has some interesting ins and outs and interpretations. um you know Gratitude is really great. And also, for some people, it creates a tremendous sense of guilt. yes So somebody feels, will have a pang of you know sadness or grief or irritability or whatever the case may be, and then immediately feel guilty.
00:54:31
Speaker
And this is mostly women, right? Immediately feel guilty and they sort of start to browbeat themselves. I shouldn't feel irritated right now. I should be a hundred percent grateful, a hundred percent of the time for all these things that I have. And I shouldn't be irritated at my children because there are some people who want children and don't have them. And how dare I am a terrible human being. And it's right down this sort of slide into like almost self loathing.
00:54:57
Speaker
because they were feeling irritable because their kids just don't paint on the floor or whatever the case may be. And I just want to, you know, remind all of us that, A, gratitude is not an inoculation against regular human experience like irritability. It's just not. It's not supposed to work that way, quite frankly. And you can be irritated that your kid just filled paint on the floor or fill in the blank, whatever thing you're irritated with.
00:55:27
Speaker
That's not a commentary on whether you're a grateful human being or not. That's called It's Irritating When Paint Goes on the Floor. But this is not about gratitude or being grateful or ungrateful. And if there's someone in your world who you're going to see over the holidays who grates on your last nerve and your first instinct is to be annoyed with yourself and be like, I'm a terrible person. I should be grateful that I even have a fill in the blank relative because some people don't and you're down the road to sort of like berating yourself and self loathing about how terrible you are. It's not necessary.
00:56:01
Speaker
being irritated with somebody who irritates you, not a referendum on whether you're a grateful person or not. It's called feeling irritated. That's okay. And I think for many high performing women in particular, this is a really painful experience that they have a lot of the year, not just at the holidays, where they are feeling some kind of feeling that strikes them as unacceptable for someone who is grateful. I shouldn't have that feeling because I'm aware of how much better I have it in these ways than all these other people. If I were truly grateful, then I wouldn't ever have those feelings. What does this say about me? And I just want to reiterate that it doesn't say anything.
00:56:45
Speaker
other than you can be incredibly grateful and still be irritated. You can be incredibly grateful and still be sad. And everything being in your life going really well compared to whoever it is you're you're thinking of doesn't mean that you won't feel sad or doesn't mean that you won't experience suffering. These are universal experiences that are not relative and and don't take away from other people. You acknowledging that you're sad doesn't take away from someone else's sad, whether their conditions are objectively better or worse or more desirable or whatever. <unk>re We're all having the same experience here.
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's such an important thing to remember. I think that kind of the way our society is set up, it's kind of like we have this expectation that as we kind of move up the rankings or the hierarchy that we should experience, we should be happier more of the time. We should experience more positive emotions and really not experienced negative emotions anymore. It's like we probably have an assumption that famous people don't have as many negative emotions. And I think what you're I hear you saying is that actually
00:58:00
Speaker
We're all having a human experience. Eight billion of us on this planet are having a human experience that involves both positive and negative emotions. And that that doesn't mean that something has gone wrong or that, you know, that there's anything wrong with you. You know, it's just part of the experience. It's just part of the experience. And in this world of information,
00:58:26
Speaker
where we all have so much information about what's going on with other people in in a granular sort of way that's really remarkable, right? I mean, I don't know how much more granular it can get at this point. We may we may have peaked out on granularity, but it's very understandable that when you're sitting in your you know nice office or whatever it is, and you see pictures of somebody in a war-torn part of the world,
00:58:53
Speaker
It's understandable that you would go, God, I have nothing to complain about. What's wrong with me? That is, that's bad, right? That is suffering. That's real. And what I hear so often is people saying like, my, my problems aren't real compared. That's a problem. the I'm aware that these are not problems. And what I would say is that we can make a really powerful connection toward that, that thought, which is like, Oh,
00:59:23
Speaker
I see a person in a war zone and I think to myself, wow, that person has real problems and comparatively, I have no problems. And that's a good thought to have, okay? That means you're awake. That means you're conscientious. That means your head's screwed on straight. And also, that doesn't mean that you don't feel sad about what makes you sad and you are,
00:59:51
Speaker
entitled to feel sad about what makes you sad, the fact that somebody else is in a war zone. doesn't have anything to do with the thing that makes you sad or not sad. And it's not gonna cancel out. Browbeating yourself with what's happening to other people is going to make you feel so much worse, okay? It's not going to make you pop you out of it and make you feel better. It's gonna make you feel guilty, more guilty that you feel bad when you feel like you have no reason to feel bad. It's unnecessary.
Lindsay's Services and Conclusion
01:00:20
Speaker
You can just acknowledge and go like, yeah,
01:00:23
Speaker
This is a sad thing going on in my life. That is a sad thing going on in my life. I'm not claiming to be in a war zone. I'm not, I'm not claiming that it's like that, but it's okay to be honest relative to where I am in my life that this is a sad thing going on for me, but two things aren't related. Yeah. That makes so much sense. Appreciate you saying that. So where can people find you? Um, should they want to work with you and what would they reach out to you for? And how do you work with people? Tell us more about that.
01:00:52
Speaker
I'm licensed in nine states, so I see private clients in nine states. And certainly the best way to get ahold of me is on my website, which is www.onwardsykepsychservices.com. There's a contact me form. There's a phone number, which I answer. You can call me on the phone.
01:01:10
Speaker
ah You can text me at the phone number on this site. There's also an email contact. So they're welcome to find me there. I work with adult individuals and couples. I also do keynote speaking across the country, workshops for large groups of people who want to learn practical, tactical stress management and burnout prevention skills. And practical tactical to me means they require two minutes or less and no additional time or resources or costumes or facilities or equipment, you can just step around the corner where you can just sit in the same place you're sitting and sort of intervene with yourself when you're having an acute stress episode. So I'm busy with those, which is really wonderful. And if you're interested in some of those practical, tactical coping skills, every Wednesday on Instagram, I put out a video.
01:02:05
Speaker
with a practical tactical coping skill and very concrete examples and demos of how to use them. I like people to walk away with something they can use immediately, no matter what. Yeah. I love that. Well, wonderful. And we'll link everything in the show notes and on the website. So everyone will be able to.
01:02:23
Speaker
find you and go check out Lindsay and her work. And of course, if your company needs a keynote speaker or if you're looking for support and you live in one of the nine states, then be sure to reach out to Lindsay. So thank you, Lindsay, so much for being here today. I really appreciate this and I just love this conversation. So thank you. It's been such a pleasure, Leanna. Thank you for having me. It's been really lovely. Likewise. Well, thank you so much, everyone, for tuning in and we will see you all next week.
01:02:54
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning in to the Executive Coach for Moms podcast. Please like, subscribe, or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care.