Transcript
Speaker: All right, welcome back to Phoenix Podcast.
Speaker: I am super, super excited to have my guest today, Tom.
Speaker: Tom is basically one of the reasons why I did this podcast, because I heard his story last year, and...
Speaker: It was one of the most moving stories.
Speaker: And so I'm not going to tell you about it.
Speaker: I want Tom to tell you about it.
Speaker: So we'll get started.
Speaker: But welcome back.
Speaker: Tom, welcome to Phoenix.
Speaker: Thanks for being here.
Speaker: How are you?
Speaker: No pressure, right?
Speaker: No pressure whatsoever.
Speaker: Thank you for the invitation, Jason.
Speaker: I appreciate you taking time to be here today.
Speaker: So, Tom, would it be safe to say, especially after our pre-interview conversation, that you've had some medical challenges or adventures, let's say?
Speaker: Yeah, I, I, as I told you, I think I'm single handedly testing the American healthcare system, one incident at a time.
Speaker: As a matter of fact, at last Monday, just a few days ago, um, I had to have a cortisone shot in my knees, my knee went wonky.
Speaker: So it's like, you know, these stupid little things that are creeping up on me, some of which, uh, were not so little.
Speaker: Uh, I am a two time cancer survivor.
Speaker: And most recently I had a heart attack, um,
Speaker: But the good news about the heart attack was I was under general anesthesia, surrounded by doctors and nurses.
Speaker: So it's the best way to have a heart attack.
Speaker: Only found out I had had a heart attack when I was in the recovery room and they said, you just had a heart attack.
Speaker: But I have to deal with the aftermath now of behaving myself a little bit better.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And people don't know, but I skipped a little bit of time.
Speaker: But I skipped a little bit of time because I, too, was in the hospital dealing with cardiac issues.
Speaker: So we have a little commonality there for us.
Speaker: Unfortunately, right?
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So I want to take it back to and tell the kind of story that I heard at the show.
Speaker: where I heard it last, last time.
Speaker: So I don't want to, I don't want to give that away yet, but so let's, let's talk a little bit about your cancer journey.
Speaker: So you you're a two time survivor of what kind of cancer?
Speaker: The first was inoperable metastatic non-small cell lung cancer.
Speaker: And the second was kind of an unusual version of cancer.
Speaker: It's called a gastrointestinal stromal tumor.
Speaker: It's in the gastrointestinal tract.
Speaker: And while I, it was about six months into my treatment for the lung cancer that they discovered this second site, totally unrelated.
Speaker: They are two different forms of cancer.
Speaker: I just had the bad luck of having two different kinds of cancer simultaneously.
Speaker: And then I remember I met you, I'm gonna say where I met you.
Speaker: I met you at the Chicago Marathon.
Speaker: And tell me about the week of the Chicago Marathon in 2023.
Speaker: Well, 2023 was my second time.
Speaker: I'd been there in 2022.
Speaker: And the reason I went in 2022 was it was my second cancerversary.
Speaker: I was diagnosed on October 2nd of 2020.
Speaker: So I spent my two-year cancer anniversary running the Chicago Marathon for the first time.
Speaker: But in 23...
Speaker: It was just the regular routine for me.
Speaker: I was in for treatment in the chemotherapy department at Mayo Clinic on Wednesday, hopped on a train, went to Chicago on Thursday, and ran the marathon on Sunday, finished the marathon on Sunday.
Speaker: That is one of the most amazing feats that I have, I have, I could ever imagine.
Speaker: Because first of all, if you're not a runner, um, I, I'm not a runner.
Speaker: Um, I, obviously if people know me or see me, they know that I wasn't built for running.
Speaker: Um, but yeah,
Speaker: You don't just get up and run a marathon.
Speaker: I mean, you train for it.
Speaker: It takes an incredible toll on your body, both the training elements and just actually running.
Speaker: Can you talk a little bit about training for, I mean, you've been a lifetime runner or no?
Speaker: Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: I was what they call an adult onset runner.
Speaker: I started running.
Speaker: I think I was about in my mid to late 50s when I started running.
Speaker: And it too was a health scare.
Speaker: I had been diagnosed with extremely high blood pressure.
Speaker: And they, you know, that was one of the things they wanted me to do is start walking and walking, of course, turned into jogging and jogging eventually ended up running.
Speaker: But the whole marathon thing was, and again, that second anniversary, I had gotten involved with Iberman Angels.
Speaker: as a both as a mentor and also as an intern, because simultaneously to being a cancer patient and training for a marathon, I was also attending classes at the University of Minnesota, earning a second bachelor's degree.
Speaker: But the whole training aspect, and I think that's your point, an excellent one in that people who don't do marathons don't really understand that process.
Speaker: The Chicago Marathon is the second Sunday in October.
Speaker: So you literally give up your summer training for a marathon.
Speaker: It's 19 to 20 weeks of just doing something every day.
Speaker: You may have one or two days off a week doing some cross training, but you're doing something every day.
Speaker: And that whole aspect of it, one of the speakers at the Emmerman event on Saturday night always says that that marathon ends up being your victory lap.
Speaker: You've done all that work for 19 or 20 weeks.
Speaker: That's the hard work.
Speaker: You have literally, Jason, run hundreds of miles to get to Chicago on that Sunday.
Speaker: So, you know, that is the victory lap.
Speaker: But to do that, when I first considered doing the marathon for Emberman, raising funds as a fundraising event for Emberman, I asked my medical team at Mayo.
Speaker: I said, I'm thinking of doing this.
Speaker: I said, hey, your treatment is going fine.
Speaker: It's up to you.
Speaker: there shouldn't be any issues if there are stop, you know, and they too knew that there was the training, uh, involved in it, uh, all the way through training, never had an issue.
Speaker: Um, you know, I twisted an ankle at one point, those kinds of things.
Speaker: But, uh, and I was in, at that point I was, I was receiving treatment early on.
Speaker: I was receiving treatment every six weeks and in, in the process of, uh, training, uh, they switched to 12 weeks.
Speaker: Uh, but I still was, uh, in treatment,
Speaker: throughout the training process and even up to and after the marathon.
Speaker: And that's one of the reasons why I did it, is that I think all too often we get stuck in that narrative that if somebody's really sick in a film or a TV show or a book, what do they do?
Speaker: They give them cancer, right?
Speaker: Just that word creates that image of someone who is losing their hair, losing weight, losing hope, and on the path to losing a life.
Speaker: Versus all those people out there in society who are survivors and thrivers.
Speaker: I mean, Hugh Jackman has had cancer multiple times, and yet he gets up there and he can be the Wolverine in a convincing manner.
Speaker: He's a productive member of society and a cancer survivor.
Speaker: And I think that early on, that becomes your choice.
Speaker: You look at that and say, okay, am I going to be the patient?
Speaker: Am I going to be the cancer victim?
Speaker: Or am I going to be the survivor and thriver?
Speaker: And I just chose to do the latter.
Speaker: That is so fascinating you just said that because I had that same conversation with Johnny Emmerman on the podcast.
Speaker: And I said, you know, there was a definite point when after my home fire, I...
Speaker: made the decision and I said, you know what, this isn't going to get the best of me.
Speaker: And I'm going to, I'm going to use this to, you know, as kind of a point, you know, to do, to do better and to do better things and, and, and to, to be a better person and, and impact more people's lives.
Speaker: And it was, and I knew it wasn't just going to let me, I wasn't going to let that
Speaker: take the best of me, you know, be the best of me.
Speaker: And so, or define me.
Speaker: And so, and that's kind of the whole point of this is that we can't let those struggles define us.
Speaker: We got to let, you know, it's that I'm not a fighter at all.
Speaker: I don't, I'm not, I'm not even into boxing or anything like that.
Speaker: I'm one of like 12 guys who aren't into fighting or boxing.
Speaker: But, you know, the whole idea of, of you getting knocked down, I feel like, you know, my house fire was a, was a big,
Speaker: you know, it was a big punch and big hit to me.
Speaker: And, but, you know, like a good fighter, I decided to get back up and not let that, you know, be the best of me.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Well, see, and I would, I would disagree with you to a certain point, because I think it does define you.
Speaker: You are now a Jason who is different than he was before the fire.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And you know that if adversity comes up, you know, you can handle it.
Speaker: And I, you know, I have a problem with,
Speaker: you know, the cancer community, when people say, I'm not going to let cancer change me, I'm not going to let it, and it does, it changes your life the moment you get your diagnosis.
Speaker: What defines you is what you do from that point on.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And that was kind of my point.
Speaker: It's not the fire that defined me, it's the afterwards that defines you.
Speaker: But the fire was the kick in the butt you needed to redefine Jason and become a new and better Jason, a different Jason.
Speaker: And I think that that, you know, handling cancer the second time,
Speaker: became a whole lot easier because it's like, okay, bring it on.
Speaker: You know, we did it once the first year in 2022, when I ran Chicago, I had a hat that said me to cancer, nothing.
Speaker: And I wore it all the way through the water all the way through the event.
Speaker: And, you know, some people saw it, some people didn't, but that gives you that spirit of, and that's why I go back to saying, you know, we need to celebrate those survivors among us.
Speaker: I mean, you've got neighbors that are cancer survivors.
Speaker: Our United States Senator, I live in Minnesota, our U.S. Senator was going through cancer treatment the same time I was.
Speaker: She's a productive member of the United States Senate.
Speaker: You know, variety of celebrities, everywhere from, you know, Robert De Niro and Dustin Hoffman.
Speaker: Rod Stewart is a cancer survivor.
Speaker: And we need to know that more.
Speaker: We need to celebrate that and understand that cancer doesn't always kill.
Speaker: Yes, it still kills a lot of people every year.
Speaker: But there are those who have gone through it and have come out like as, as you have with, with the fire and come out as a different person and are still productive.
Speaker: You know, Hugh Jackman's still a Wolverine, even though the fact he's a cancer survivor.
Speaker: Was there a moment when you, when that decision clicked or was it just, was it just in your DNA so to speak that you were going to fight this?
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: At that point, when I first got diagnosed, you have to understand that this was July of 2020.
Speaker: So we were what, four or five months into the pandemic.
Speaker: So all of my conversations, all of my diagnosis were either on Zoom calls or telephone calls.
Speaker: And the first diagnosis I got here was at a medical facility here in the Twin Cities.
Speaker: And the last thing the doctor said to me after she had told me I had cancer was the very last thing she said before she hung up was you'll be in my prayers.
Speaker: And I, you know, you just heard you have cancer and now a doctor is telling you you're going to be in their prayers.
Speaker: That's the right thing to say.
Speaker: At that point it was like, okay, I want a medical person who's going to be relying a little bit more on science.
Speaker: So I ended up getting the second opinion at Mayo and fast forward to that.
Speaker: They had the plan where they told me what the treatment plan was going to be.
Speaker: And it was this parade of people who came in and spoke to me as a human being, went over every last little detail.
Speaker: Um, in English, you know, ask questions, answered questions.
Speaker: Then they cleared out the room and it was my wife, myself and my oncologist.
Speaker: And he looked me dead in the eye and said, I have every confidence in the world that this treatment is going to work for you.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: So we went from you'll be in my prayers to every confidence the world is treatment is going to work for you.
Speaker: I was in the right place.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: But after I had gotten the second diagnosis confirmation from Mayo, it was on the phone.
Speaker: It was a Friday afternoon, of course, Jason.
Speaker: So you spend the weekend stewing about this diagnosis you just got.
Speaker: But my wife was in the other room and she came into the room and we had been together at that point for close to 50 years and we didn't need to say anything.
Speaker: I just kind of shook my head.
Speaker: And she
Speaker: hugged me and said, we're going to get through this, we're going to get past this, and we're going to get back to normal.
Speaker: That was the impetus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right there.
Speaker: That moment changed everything because I knew she had my back.
Speaker: I knew not only was I going to fight, that she was going to fight too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so not only to do it once, we did it twice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know when I...
Speaker: when my fire happened, I mean, I called 911 and I call my mom.
Speaker: And when Johnny got diagnosed, Johnny was by himself and he thought
Speaker: he thought he got hit in the stomach or something like that at a bar when he was playing pool and he, and he didn't realize what it was coming.
Speaker: And so then the doctor told him he called his mom.
Speaker: And I always say, it's the women in our lives that hold us up, you know?
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: But it seems to be consistent there.
Speaker: Well, and, and, and my family too, the, the, the best thing my family did,
Speaker: for me throughout this whole process was they never treated me any differently.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They didn't allow me to become the cancer patient.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, if I said, well, I'm going to go mow the lawn or I'm going to go shovel snow or something, it was like, OK, it wasn't like, well, do you think you really should do that?
Speaker: They kept treating me the way I always had been.
Speaker: And at that time, my daughter had gone through a divorce and she was living here with our grandchild.
Speaker: And who was 13 at the time.
Speaker: So it was an absolute tremendous education there because seeing a grandfather go through an experience and not seeing a whole lot of change.
Speaker: Put cancer in a new light for both of them, but especially for my grandchild, because not living with that trope of hair falling out, losing hair, none of that happened.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Tell me about, I want to go back to the marathon because honestly, it's just so amazing to me.
Speaker: And one of the, one of the things that gets me very self-conscious, I guess, maybe a little bit is at the marathons every year.
Speaker: They treat me like, like I'm,
Speaker: some very important part of that day.
Speaker: And I every time I yell at Johnny and Dave, who are obviously Johnny Emmerman, but then Dave, who heads team Emmerman, I say, Listen, the people you should be celebrating here are the people who worked 20 hours or 20 days, 20 months, you know, not 20 months, 20 weeks to prepare for today and take that victory lap.
Speaker: It's not the guy who's staying up for 12 hours of detail.
Speaker: That's not important.
Speaker: And I want to know about that ride from Minnesota to Chicago on the train.
Speaker: You just finished chemotherapy.
Speaker: You're in your second battle.
Speaker: And you're riding on a train.
Speaker: You're like, I'm not going to let this beat me.
Speaker: I'm going to go run the marathon.
Speaker: What's in your mind in that train trip?
Speaker: Were you sleeping or were you thinking about the, what were you thinking?
Speaker: Because there's got to be things going through your mind at that point.
Speaker: Well, quite honestly, at that point, you don't want to think about the marathon.
Speaker: I mean, you really don't.
Speaker: It's like I've been doing this for 20 weeks.
Speaker: I want to get my mind off of it for a while.
Speaker: And of course, my wife goes with me.
Speaker: And that's sort of like we time for us.
Speaker: And we said, well, we could drive, but, you know, there was just something was just a whole lot more convenient to take the train.
Speaker: But the thought process is quite honestly, is not about the marathon.
Speaker: It's enjoying our time together.
Speaker: And it's sort of like, ironically, in 2023,
Speaker: October was our 50th wedding anniversary.
Speaker: So that was like, it was later in the month.
Speaker: So it was like a little, you know, pre you know, 50th anniversary honeymoon kind of idea.
Speaker: Um, but you really don't think about it.
Speaker: You don't want to think about it.
Speaker: The one time when you really, I mean, you know, you talk about crossing the finish line and all those things involved in, in a marathon.
Speaker: The one story, and again, it goes back to my wife.
Speaker: In 2022, we stayed at the team hotel and we had breakfast reservations.
Speaker: So we were the next morning on Monday morning and I'm getting ready to walk out the door and she said, where's your medal?
Speaker: I said, well, it's over there on the nightstand.
Speaker: She goes, you're wearing your medal.
Speaker: I went, I'm not going to look like a geek.
Speaker: I'll look like, no, I'm not wearing my medal.
Speaker: So she literally put it around my neck and said, you're wearing your medal.
Speaker: So we,
Speaker: get into the elevator and there was somebody coming down from an upper floor who was wearing their medal.
Speaker: We get to the lobby.
Speaker: Every other person in the lobby is wearing their medal.
Speaker: We went up, we're walking up and down Michigan Avenue.
Speaker: You know, people are wearing their medals.
Speaker: So, you know, once again, she was right.
Speaker: But it's that celebratory thing.
Speaker: And I go back to your comment about, you know, why are they celebrating you?
Speaker: It's Team Immerman Angels, Jason, and you're a part of the team.
Speaker: And it's, you know, it's not just, it isn't just about the runners.
Speaker: There are the support people, employees from Immerman itself out on the course cheering us.
Speaker: All of a sudden you'll see, you know, blue shirts, people standing, you know, calling you by name.
Speaker: cheering you.
Speaker: It takes a village, Jason.
Speaker: It isn't just the people that are out there running.
Speaker: It's all that support.
Speaker: And that's why I always say, my running friends will ask me about Chicago.
Speaker: I said, do Chicago.
Speaker: That is Chicago's finest day.
Speaker: I know there are people who would argue, you know, St.
Speaker: Patrick's Day and various other things, but that is Chicago at its finest because there are upward of a million and a half people standing on the curb encouraging you.
Speaker: cheering you, throwing you love and high fives and calling your name.
Speaker: Quick story, 2022, I'm in my starting corral way in the back and got into a conversation with someone who I think was from the island somewhere from the Caribbean.
Speaker: He looked at me, he goes, you know, Michael Jackson, he an athletic God or Michael Jordan, he an athletic God in this town.
Speaker: But he never performed in front of a million and a half people at one time.
Speaker: That's the Chicago experience.
Speaker: It's all the neighborhoods.
Speaker: And that's part of the team, too, though.
Speaker: You know, like you're a very integral part of the team.
Speaker: The people standing on the curb.
Speaker: I mean, it is one gigantic love fest on marathon day.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's if you haven't experienced a marathon, you need to do it.
Speaker: I'm not I'm like I said, I'm not a runner, but it's a it's
Speaker: It's a very cool day because, first of all, there is that Chicago pride that comes out of you, you know, very much so.
Speaker: I mean, I start out in the morning with the team and then I get on the train and get to the end of the line and I end up on the 20th mile or something like that.
Speaker: And I'm out there, you know, at our tier station.
Speaker: But
Speaker: it's cool to see the people who travel around the world to come to Chicago.
Speaker: It's cool to see the people who travel from the suburbs into Chicago to run.
Speaker: And it's cool to see the people who come out of their houses, you know, a block from the path to run and all those people coming together.
Speaker: And then the same groups of people coming to cheer people on.
Speaker: And it's such a cool day.
Speaker: And I mean, it could be,
Speaker: you know, Chicago, it could be 40 degrees.
Speaker: It could be 95 degrees.
Speaker: It could be raining, snowing, hailing, anything.
Speaker: And it just, the race goes on and, and it's a very cool experience.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: And the, the atmosphere in each of the individual neighborhoods is really fantastic.
Speaker: And, you know, you go through, you go through Pilsen and they're, you know, they're playing, you know, they're, they're, you know, playing Mexican music.
Speaker: You go through Chinatown and it's the, you know, the, the big, you know, gigantic dragon, dragon.
Speaker: And, you know,
Speaker: It's it's it's and you and you come back and come back to the Twin Cities and people say, how was it?
Speaker: And I said, oh, it's a whole lot of fun.
Speaker: And non runners always give you that look like running 26 miles was fun.
Speaker: And I said, you have no idea.
Speaker: You have no idea how much fun that is.
Speaker: And the energy you get from the people on the curb, just absolutely amazing.
Speaker: There was a point I think it was last year.
Speaker: And I'm not sure what neighborhood it was.
Speaker: It kind of reminded me of the Tour de France when they're going up a mountain.
Speaker: They got like this much room to get the bike through.
Speaker: They had knocked down the barriers in whatever neighborhood we were in.
Speaker: And it quite literally, we were about too wide going through the crowds.
Speaker: They're all patting on the back and high-fiving you and calling your name.
Speaker: And just that gets you through.
Speaker: And I don't care how good you are or how bad you are.
Speaker: Those people carry you through the 26 miles.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You're at 25 miles.
Speaker: You got your last mile.
Speaker: What's going through your head?
Speaker: Just get me through this.
Speaker: Okay, so here comes Chicago Marathon story number 2321, whatever it is.
Speaker: In 2022, and those who aren't familiar with the course, you come up Michigan Avenue, and just before you make a 90-degree turn to the right,
Speaker: Uh, on Roosevelt, you make a 90 degree turn to the left and there's the finish line.
Speaker: Well, I see the 90 degree turn ahead of me and both of my legs locked up.
Speaker: Um, and I went down like a thud and I, I, I swear the, the everybody around me, it just went dead silent.
Speaker: Here's, you know, here's a guy, 70 years old, running a marathon within the last few yards of the finish line collapsing.
Speaker: They had no idea what happened.
Speaker: But I will tell you this, Jason, within five seconds, I had tons of paramedics on top of me wanting to know what had happened.
Speaker: So long story short, I get to the finish line and my wife says, what happened?
Speaker: I had a whole bunch of people.
Speaker: We had signs.
Speaker: We were yelling your name.
Speaker: And you were walking down the street with some girl, some blonde girl, not paying any attention.
Speaker: I said, honey, did you notice that the blonde girl had a red jacket on?
Speaker: She said, yeah.
Speaker: I said, did you notice that the red jacket said EMT?
Speaker: Medical staff?
Speaker: And she went, what?
Speaker: So she had seen
Speaker: The commotion in the street, she was that close that she had seen somebody laying in the street and the EMTs.
Speaker: Never realized it was you.
Speaker: Had no idea it was me.
Speaker: So once she found out it was me, the story kind of changed, but it was still, you know, laugh a minute because, you know, she had no idea.
Speaker: And I walked away from it.
Speaker: They won't let you.
Speaker: They will stay with you until they're pretty sure you're okay.
Speaker: And they let me finish by myself.
Speaker: But that's the last mile.
Speaker: The year before, I can't remember which one of the other ones, the other one, I met up with a couple of other people on the team.
Speaker: And right at the end, one of them just took off.
Speaker: And I said, where are you going?
Speaker: He said, I just want this to be over.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: At that point, that's the real truth of it.
Speaker: You make that left-hand turn to see that finish line.
Speaker: It's like it keeps moving further away.
Speaker: Please, please, come meet me.
Speaker: That last half mile seems like it's four miles.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: When I tell people about you,
Speaker: I said, you know, I have so much respect for anyone who can run a marathon.
Speaker: I just the determination, the, you know, the perseverance and the training that goes into it is highly, highly, highly respectable.
Speaker: I respect someone who's even more, who's, I always say, I gave you a couple of years.
Speaker: I said in the 60s.
Speaker: So I'm like, okay.
Speaker: So I'm like, anyone, you know, who's in their 60s or 70s can run a marathon.
Speaker: It's just so much respect for them.
Speaker: And then I'm like, then there's a man who's 70 years old going through chemotherapy and runs a marathon five days later.
Speaker: I'm like, I don't even know
Speaker: There's no more respect that I could possibly give than all of it right there.
Speaker: So it's just such a huge accomplishment for you and one I'm proud of you for.
Speaker: And one of the things, and obviously the connection with Emmerman is extremely important.
Speaker: And the one thing that
Speaker: drew my attention to Interimberman is that it's, it's cancer centered, but it isn't a specific cancer.
Speaker: Uh, it isn't about, you know, people with breast cancer or people with thyroid cancer, it's all cancers.
Speaker: So that to me was truly appealing.
Speaker: And to find out that I could raise funds, uh, as a charity runner and do the Chicago marathon, a world major marathon, there are only six of them in the world.
Speaker: So you're running a world major marathon with a first class team, raising money to support fellow cancer patients.
Speaker: I tell you what, if you ever have the inkling to run a marathon, run it for a charity.
Speaker: Because you're going to be in the middle of July and you're going to look at that schedule and go, oh God, I got to do eight miles.
Speaker: And then when you're strapping on the shoes, you think I'm doing this for the greater good.
Speaker: I'm doing this for something more than just me.
Speaker: I am helping thousands of people who will never know who I am, but I'm keeping an operation going that supports them tremendously.
Speaker: And having done an internship there and volunteered with Emmerman and handling those calls, they get people who apply for a mentor
Speaker: hours, days after being diagnosed.
Speaker: And the plan is to call them within 48 hours to set up that connection, to talk to those people at that time when they are just absolutely the most vulnerable.
Speaker: that, you know, on that July day, that goes through your mind.
Speaker: You're helping that person make that match with somebody who's going to get them through this.
Speaker: And, you know, again, it gets to be, and then, you know, on top of it all, you get great benefits.
Speaker: You get guys like Jason, who's doing, you know, DJ work on Saturday, Sunday morning.
Speaker: You get a great, you know, great food.
Speaker: You get, you know, your entry paid for.
Speaker: Camaraderie.
Speaker: Really, really, yes.
Speaker: Well, and really great hotel locations because we're literally right across the street from the start line.
Speaker: And then there's that team spirit.
Speaker: I mean, the Saturday night pasta dinner, they always, you can invite family and friends.
Speaker: So it's a full room.
Speaker: And they always say with the, you know, with the members of the, you know, the current year's team, please stand.
Speaker: And there's a round of applause.
Speaker: And then they have the people who are running their first stand.
Speaker: And there's a, you know, even bigger round of applause.
Speaker: And then they have the cancer survivors who are on the team stand.
Speaker: And
Speaker: That's, you know, that's the biggest round of applause and that kind of appreciation for the whole team.
Speaker: Uh, it's just, you know, that's what gets you through is, you know, again, I keep going back to the same phrase of, of the greater good, but, um, you're, you're, you're doing something that will always be when you cross that finish line, you will forever be a, a marathoner and no one can take that away from you.
Speaker: And nobody, nobody really cares about your time.
Speaker: They're, they're more impressed with, they're more impressed with you did a marathon.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I did a marathon.
Speaker: I did a world major marathon.
Speaker: I did a world major marathon twice.
Speaker: I did a world major marathon twice with cancer as a cancer patient.
Speaker: Um, so yeah, you know, there's that, that singular pride, but there's that,
Speaker: that that benefiting thousands of others who benefit from the charity.
Speaker: I have this common response when I tell you a little bit about your story, because I was talking about you in the context of this.
Speaker: of this podcast.
Speaker: And someone said, who's going after him?
Speaker: Because I don't know anyone who could be more inspiring than his story.
Speaker: I'm like the poor person who follows him, you know?
Speaker: So, uh, well, you know, there are, you meet amazing people when you do a marathon.
Speaker: Um, I remember doing a half marathon once in Fargo, North Dakota.
Speaker: And there was a woman up ahead of me who had one of those, um,
Speaker: artificial legs, the curved ones.
Speaker: And I caught up to her and I started a conversation and she said, yeah, this isn't my distance.
Speaker: I usually don't do half marathons.
Speaker: I do full marathons.
Speaker: I went, wow, that's really impressive.
Speaker: I'm really impressed.
Speaker: And I don't want to brag, but I was going a little faster than her.
Speaker: So I said, well, I'll see you at the finish line.
Speaker: And I took off and I finished the event.
Speaker: Well, you finish inside the Fargo Dome and you're up on the Jumbotron and they make a big deal out of everybody as they finish.
Speaker: And I had been done about 10 or 15 minutes when I hear this announcement that entering the Fargo Dome is the only event.
Speaker: woman finisher of the Ironman triathlon, who is above the knee amputee.
Speaker: And it was this woman that I had passed.
Speaker: So she, I think to this day, she is the only one who has finished Ironman Hawaii.
Speaker: And I, the conversation I had with her was she said, yeah, I did.
Speaker: I did the Ironman.
Speaker: She said, what people don't realize is when they're changing their shoes, I'm changing my leg.
Speaker: And you don't really think about that, that you get a different leg for swimming, different leg for biking, different leg for running.
Speaker: Well, I came home and told that story to my son and he goes, dad, don't tell people that story.
Speaker: you beat a one-legged woman.
Speaker: That's not something to brag about.
Speaker: But Jason, there are those stories out there.
Speaker: I mean, there are heart transplant people who are running marathons.
Speaker: And like I said, you should shoot for Hugh Jackman because he's a... Talk about... He's not on my price list.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: But yeah, the Wolverine is a cancer survivor, right?
Speaker: So...
Speaker: there are what happens maybe i'll put it out there well and the amazing thing though jason is when you when you run into somebody and you said they say they're a cancer survivor you know the conversation go oh boy how about this weather and you know nobody wants to talk about it yeah but i would ask anybody who's listening and watching to engage that person because i guarantee you you're going to hear an amazing story yeah um that they are doing things that you know i like i said i go to school uh
Speaker: Probably won't be in Chicago doing the marathon this year because I'm going to be working on a doctorate.
Speaker: You know, I there are those kind of stories.
Speaker: Some of those people that I'm in class with are just absolutely amazing, too, that, you know, those amazing stories are everywhere.
Speaker: And we need to do more podcasts like this where we aren't talking about, you know, how, you know, that cancer that nobody talks about, that there are people who are out there not only surviving, but thriving through all sorts of adversity.
Speaker: I want to talk one more thing before we finish up.
Speaker: And I want to talk about a little bit about Emmerman's angel.
Speaker: So, and your experience there as an intern and a mentor too, correct?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Were you a mentee?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Because my, my, my treatment path was unusual.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: And they try to match that.
Speaker: I mean, they match up demographic data, you know,
Speaker: to the same how they do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Uh, but I have been for the second one.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: I have been a, tell me about that mentor experience.
Speaker: Um, I, I go back to being the intern first and taking those calls and seeing people at that moment in their life when they've just been told they have cancer and they don't know what to expect.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you go to that mission of, of Immerman of,
Speaker: matching all that demographic information.
Speaker: They're a 35-year-old female, stage two breast cancer, single mom with teenage kids.
Speaker: Well, by God, Emmerman is going to match her up with the exact same match.
Speaker: And the idea is that I had wonderful family support.
Speaker: Like I said, they let me be me.
Speaker: I had the best medical staff in the world.
Speaker: I always say Mayo doesn't hire from the bottom third of any medical school class.
Speaker: My medical team is from Michigan, Southern California, Greece, Canada, the UK, people from around the world work at Mayo because it's Mayo.
Speaker: But you can't ask those people
Speaker: those kinds of questions that you can a an immerman mentor, um, because that person has been through your experience and more than likely they've had the same kind of drugs for treatment.
Speaker: Um, they've had, you know, they can answer those questions.
Speaker: You don't, you know, your family can't answer even your medical team because nobody on my medical team has ever had cancer.
Speaker: Uh, so having that mentor at your side,
Speaker: And by the way, the mentee is the one who defines the relationship.
Speaker: If you want to carry it on email, if you want to carry it on phone conversations, texts, how you define the method.
Speaker: But it's, you know, the internet can be a really great source for cancer patients because you can tap into some of the greatest medical facilities in the world.
Speaker: You can, you know, Memorial Sloan Kettering, MD Anderson, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, um,
Speaker: but they aren't going to answer those questions of I keep getting this rash on the inside of my right knee was, did you have that?
Speaker: Oh yeah, I had that it's, you know, because of this, that, or the other thing it's that it's personalizing the experience and making it a firsthand experience, uh, that is extremely important.
Speaker: And, and one of my mentors for the, just it's difficult to match up because, um,
Speaker: There aren't that many.
Speaker: And the one that I had, it was a woman, but we were about the same age.
Speaker: And she said, you know, I have five questions for you before I start treatment.
Speaker: She asked the questions.
Speaker: I answered the questions.
Speaker: I said, I'll see you after treatment.
Speaker: She went in for treatment.
Speaker: She said, I'm fine.
Speaker: She said, everything you said is what happened.
Speaker: So that's kind of the idea behind it is that, you know, you are that person that you can, that they can ask those questions of.
Speaker: Tom, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: Your story is, I don't know, it's beyond inspiring and your life is inspiring.
Speaker: And I congratulate you on everything you've done and what you are still doing.
Speaker: I mean, you're going for your doctorate now.
Speaker: What are you going to get a doctorate in?
Speaker: What are you doing?
Speaker: I'm going to get a doctorate in business.
Speaker: The funny thing is, is that it's a program that's designed for working adults.
Speaker: So my classes are going to be on Saturdays, which makes it a little difficult to be in a class on Saturday and run to Chicago for the marathon on Sunday.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So but I'm really looking for what I've one of the things that I found out in the cancer experiences, I do really good when I have a really big goal and lots of little steps to get to it.
Speaker: So marathon training plan.
Speaker: doctorate here's all the classes you have to take so i'm in my element right there you go so um well thank you so much for joining us i really appreciate it um and uh to those who are joining us listening um thank you for listening and we'll be back soon with another great episode tom thanks again for being here and making time hope i wish you the best i wish you the best in uh
Speaker: your new health challenges that we almost commonly share.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Thank you, Jason.
Speaker: It's been a pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you.
