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Juve-Fiorentina Controversy, Milan Derby, Atalanta Discussion (Ep. 41)
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Transcript
Introduction and Setup
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Seria show!
00:00:16
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another edition of The City I Show. As usual, I am joined by Chloe and Nima. Before we get
Controversial Penalties Discussion
00:00:25
Speaker
into obviously the Milan Derby, we're first going to go back, discuss a couple of the results from this past weekend. Chloe, I apologize, but the first one we'll start out with is Juve Fiorentina. If we know.
00:00:40
Speaker
Well, I, I, I think the first thing everybody was drawn to in this one were the penalties and Racco Comiso getting drawn into his first, uh, refereeing. Are we going to call it a controversy? I don't know, but. I loved it. I love the term porkery. I don't even know how to translate that term properly to English. It's, it's piggy. It's like piggy stuff, like filthy stuff.
00:01:11
Speaker
Like, I absolutely loved it. His rant was amazing. Let's just start off with you. Does Uncle Rocco have a legitimate argument here? Because I think the first one, if we're talking reasonably here, I think the first one we all agree was a penalty. That second one, though, is oof.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the first one, I think everybody felt sorry for Pet Cellar. I think that was the issue that he really did try and get his hand out of the way. But to the letter of the law, it's a penalty. Whether he's unfortunate or not, it's a penalty. And, you know, I think, you know, Fiorentina played really well in the first half and they'd really competed well with Juve, but
00:02:00
Speaker
that's that's the way the cookie crumbles that's the law and he took you know his hand touched the ball and it stopped it from you know it's it's it stopped an opportunity so that was the first one the second one I have to say was it's not a penalty it's not a penalty not a penalty it's just simply it's just that simple it is not a penalty
00:02:25
Speaker
Um, and, and the fact that he used VAR and still got it wrong is just, that is, that is the mind boggling part. I mean, sure. You can find some sort of.
00:02:35
Speaker
support for it but it's not
Impact of Comiso's Criticism
00:02:37
Speaker
a penalty that is no to me that is not a penalty. No I mean obviously Fiorentina fans have gone away and found similar examples where it's not been given as a penalty and you know it's it there's not enough in it for me for it to be a penalty but I think the the ranting from Rocco Camuso afterwards um
00:03:00
Speaker
Although it was fairly amusing. And to, you know, I've seen a lot of Juve fans quite upset about, you know, he's going on about Juve and he's a sore loser and blah, blah, blah. He didn't just single out Juve. He said that Fiorentina had a poor decision in the Coppa Italia semi against Inter and the week before against Genoa as well. And I think actually he's playing a very clever game here because
00:03:28
Speaker
Whether it's a conscious thing or not, I'm not talking about cheating here, I'm talking about just the general attitude of Italy in general and Serie A, those who shout the loudest tend to get the decisions. And I think it's because in the back of referees minds, whether it's a conscious thing or not, they are thinking
00:03:51
Speaker
I better get this right because if I don't this X manager is going to go to town on me and I think for too long Fiorentina have been very quiet and they've put up with decisions and they've said nothing and they've always been the team that
00:04:06
Speaker
will go away with the tail between the legs very quietly, whereas now I think he's saying, hold on a minute, we're not putting up with this, you know, things have changed around here and I want to make a statement and I think he's been quite clever in the way that he's done that and, and, you know,
00:04:24
Speaker
the things need to change in terms of standards, which we all know they do. And he's saying Fiorentina are not going to be pushed around. And the also the other interesting thing he said was, I'm not just some dumb American. Now, I think that which is not by the way, I don't get why that is even a talking point is not because he was born in Italy. Exactly.
Systemic Refereeing Issues
00:04:47
Speaker
And the fact that, you know, Costa Curta was said what he did about
00:04:52
Speaker
how I was expecting more from an American, you know, who have, they have a different culture of sports, which we should try to emulate and whatnot. Yeah, maybe, but at the same time, what Comiso said wasn't just about Fiorentina. What he was talking about was that everyone criticizes the referees. And when he went against Nedved, I think that was an absolutely brilliant, you know, when Nedved standing there pretending all holier than thou,
00:05:18
Speaker
saying that we don't complain, you shouldn't complain about the referees and blah, blah, blah. Oh, really? Well, that's what I was really curious to hear. When Gigi Buffon was crying, talking about trash cans instead of hearts. Did we go into the locker room and spew that bullshit out? I mean, come on, this is nonsense. And the same thing, when you haven't had calls in the league, they go off the rails as well. This is what happens in the league. So all of a sudden, this holier than thou hypocrisy is just,
00:05:46
Speaker
And I think Comiso called him out on it brilliantly. He said, well, if the answer to the question, if Juventus have ever complained about the refereeing is no, then fine. But it isn't, so he should shut the F up. And I agree, just shut the F up. Well, Chloe, what did you think about what NetVed had to say? Because he basically told Rocco to start off. Yeah.
00:06:11
Speaker
And I'm not just saying this because this is going to come off as a bit of an aroma supporter, but I've never liked NetVed.
00:06:19
Speaker
He's not a particularly smiley man, is he? Well, no, not even that. But what did you think about what he had to say? Because I thought he stoked the flame even further. I think he did. But I think, you know, if you think about it, the general point that I take from this is that
00:06:41
Speaker
those who want the decisions have to speak up when things don't go their way. And I think that UVA are part of that system and I think that Nedvard had to speak up and say what he thought because otherwise next week UVA might get a decision go against them in order to somehow even up the balance. And I think that is just part of the system, rightly or wrongly,
00:07:08
Speaker
I mean Fonseca was very upset with the referees wasn't he as well and even today was yes yeah and I think that it's it's almost like if you can't beat them join them kind of culture that everybody has to speak out otherwise they're just not going to get they're just not going to get the thing that absolutely puts me over the edge is that
00:07:31
Speaker
You know, okay, Comiso this time, he started talking about Juventus and I think that was a very big mistake of him. He shouldn't talk about, he had no business saying the things he did about Juventus. You know, they have a budget of the X million euros. That's got nothing to do with that. They don't need the help from the referees. I think that was going too far.
00:07:51
Speaker
But generally, when you criticize the referees, for some reason, Juventini, be they fans on Twitter or the CEO of the company, feels sort of compelled to ride out like William Wallace in Braveheart to defend the referees. And it's just what?
00:08:06
Speaker
what are you talking about this doesn't even concern you the referees aren't part of you don't need to protect them you know there is absolutely no need for that and they're there for everybody let's face it yeah i mean no but the incompetence
Referee Disciplinary Actions
00:08:19
Speaker
that you call out is what you're calling out you're not calling Juventus out
00:08:23
Speaker
And that's just how it is. And it looks really dodgy, the optics of this. It looks really dodgy when Juventus, the company goes out, the actual social star, the club goes out and starts defending the referees. It looks so dodgy. So, you know, they're not exactly helping themselves either.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, I just, I think that there obviously needs to be a change in the league with the referees and you know Antonioni, Joe Barone and
00:08:55
Speaker
I can't think of the other guy, sporting director. They all got fined. They all got fined. However, the thing that speaks loudest to me is the fact that the referee
Italian Football Culture
00:09:07
Speaker
Pasqua has been dropped for this weekend. So that says it all to me.
00:09:12
Speaker
And you mentioned it, even Paolo Fonseca from this past weekend was extremely, extremely bitter about the refereeing. I mean, Roma, they had seven yellow cards given to them. The foul discrepancy was, I think, like 20 to five, so almost
00:09:30
Speaker
Roma had roughly four times the amount of foul. When Interplay during is away this weekend and within 30 seconds, the English commentator, the incompetence of the refereeing became a punchline in the joke. In the joke he made live on air. Like this is the level where we've stooped to now. The incompetence and the inconsistency literally in situations that are identical 10 seconds apart. It doesn't matter who they favor. It's the incompetence and it is incompetence.
00:09:59
Speaker
We don't have evidence for Malice, so I'm going to say incompetence for now. But this is absolutely ridiculous. And we are talking, you know, it's ruining the league. And I think Comiso is absolutely right about doing that. I think he shouldn't have mentioned Juve. He shouldn't have said a word about Juventus, because I think that's wrong. Because that's not...
00:10:24
Speaker
you know unless you've got evidence of the contrary you don't talk about another club yeah and it makes you automatically sound like a sore loser as well yeah it really does it really does and i think that's where he because he made a lot of good points but the fact that he was angry and you know he has his roots from Calabria we know that the blood boils
00:10:42
Speaker
at
Fiorentina and Roma's Challenges
00:10:43
Speaker
a low temperature the further south in Italy you go. So, no, I think it's, yeah, I think it was, I loved it, because for me, that's Calcio, that's the Italian football I grew up with, pissed off presidents cursing and accusing each other, and, you know, someone telling someone to, you know, have a calm down and have a cup of tea, and the other guy responds saying that he can take that tea and shove it up your beep, beep.
00:11:10
Speaker
To me, this is fun. I enjoy it. I laugh at it. But if we're going to be serious about it, I think, you know, we've already mentioned what the takeaway is. But, you know, it's Italy. It's part and parcel of the show. That is the Serie A. Yeah, agreed.
00:11:25
Speaker
Well, Chloe does that. So I obviously I think most of us would agree that Fiorentina were hard done a bit. I don't think three to zero at all reflected that match in any way, shape or form. So now it doesn't get any easier Fiorentina they have Atalanta who generally do well against.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think at home Fiorentina have been pretty much okay against Atalanta. I think it'll be a big test to see if they can bounce back from that disappointment. I mean, they'll have some players back that were injured before. I think it'll be a
00:12:04
Speaker
a good match. It's always a good match between these two teams. They've got some, obviously some of the newer players that they stand in the window will be available too. My concern is that German Pat Seller, the centre half, and the captain is horrendously out of form and showing a bit of a lack of confidence and I don't think that penalty incident will have helped him. So that's a little bit of a concern, especially when you're playing a side that ruthlessly attack like Atalanta.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm not too disheartened because they did actually play very well against Juve. And I wanted to ask you about Roma, John, given that now that Florenti's away, I thought everything was going to be fine, but it wasn't.
00:12:52
Speaker
Sorry, I couldn't leave it alone. I couldn't leave it alone. Because if anyone follows Jon on Twitter, you know that he's a bigger idiot magnet than I am. And this past week, the discussions you've had about Florenci, they've been delicious to follow. People seriously don't want him back, do they? I actually think that there are people who are. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I mean, my thing is,
00:13:23
Speaker
Listen, David A. Santon has actually done really well this season. You could probably make the argument that it is one of his best as a professional footballer. And the reason that is, is he's not asked.
00:13:40
Speaker
to really go forward a lot. The way Paulo Fonseca plays really is the left back who's going up and attacking and it's more or less you're playing with deep lying midfielder, two center halves, and then the right back who's not venturing forward a whole lot. So I think that has actually helped Santon. But yeah, I mean,
00:14:00
Speaker
Agree, but what happened is because it felt like it felt like Roma were falling apart and that was crazy. What happened was people will easily point out Gianluca Mancini for what happened. I point to one Sir Brian Christante who, because Ramon Monti had so many bad purchases in the
00:14:23
Speaker
Under two years he was at Roma or just actually I think was exactly two years and He had so many bad purchases that the ones that Were just bad and not really bad tend to go under the radar
00:14:38
Speaker
Cristante is really, really, really, really, really bad. And I know we always, regardless of who it is, when any of the bigger clubs, they buy a player from Atalanta, we're always weary of that Gasparini system sort of
00:15:00
Speaker
factor playing into things. Is the player actually that good or was he a result of the system that Gasparini hasn't placed there? I am here to tell you that Cristante is a result of that Gasparini system and that Roma are being made to pay dearly for Cristante because
00:15:21
Speaker
Listen, the drop-off in quality between Diawara and him is like dropping a brick from a 50-story skyscraper. There is that much of a gap, and even Fonseca said it today in his pre-match press conference ahead of Bologna,
00:15:39
Speaker
He said, what we did, it wasn't really an attitude problem. He said, we got it wrong tactically and technically. But he pointed to Christante a number of times about the amount of space that was left behind him. And he was asked about it today, and Fonseca said, the way Diaora plays, he is a master in his positioning, sort of orchestrating right in front of the defense deep in the midfield.
00:16:05
Speaker
That is not Cristante's game. It's not Verityu's game. Roma don't have an alternative. They don't have this alternative who can sit right in front of the defense, dictate the play, good in their positioning, good in defense.
00:16:21
Speaker
They don't have anybody except Diawara. So when he goes out... See, I don't agree with that. See, I don't agree with that. I think Gianmuca Mancini can do that, and he did that when they were forced to play him in that role. See, I agree with you when he played in that role, but then... He was phenomenal. He was very good. Fronseca said he doesn't want to... By doing that, he's essentially having to change the midfield and the defense, and he would prefer to change just one department at a time. Now, to
Atalanta's System and Player Impact
00:16:45
Speaker
an extent, I understand what you're saying, but Cristante is not good.
00:16:51
Speaker
But he's not supposed to play in that role either. He didn't play in that role for Atalanta either. And I don't... Well, he played in that weird free role in the 3-4-2-1. He was playing in one of those two. And it's a really weird free role where really, from a defensive duty standpoint, a lot was not being asked of them. Where in this role, it's just about everything is being asked of them in that regard. So I think
00:17:16
Speaker
That's the problem with Roma is when they have their best 11, they are very, very good. But you take away just one of those pieces and they are, you know, they're like a house of cards. I mean, it just crumbles and they're in huge trouble. So that's what Zagnolo was. That's what Diawara was or is, and he'll be back in a couple of weeks, I think.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. So I'm curious, what do you guys think then? Because we're talking about Atalanta, we're talking about Roma. It seems like, unless barring a meltdown by anybody in the top three, I think we could all agree that the top three is set. And it looks like for Ford, it's going to be Roma and Atalanta.
00:18:01
Speaker
What's the what's the temperature gauge we're all feeling in this? I wanted to ask you both a little question that I was asked on Twitter and that I've been thinking for myself for quite some time and that is if you look at the number of players that Atalanta have sold Galiardini, Kesi, Christante,
00:18:21
Speaker
And many that just elude me right now, a lot of them have failed. Not many of them have succeeded. I don't think any of them have succeeded. And that begs another question. I mean, Kaldara failed miserably. Mancini and Bastoni are the only ones that are kind of doing well.
00:18:40
Speaker
But other than that, but in the end, the jury still out on them. But other than that, are we talking about I mean, Koulousepski, he I don't really count him as one of Atlanta, because he only played with her primavera. And then he went to Panama and became a success. And I was going to you. But but if we look at all the other players, they're not doing too well. Is that I mean, is it is it turning into a situation where you're the system
00:19:02
Speaker
and the coach is so good there that all these players work in only that system and therefore you're buying fool's gold. What do you guys think?
00:19:12
Speaker
I think it's partly that but it's also the Atalanta thrive on the strength of the collective and they all increase each other's strengths and then a big club comes and takes one of those players out of that atmosphere and they're almost like a fish out of water. They're expected to put in this amazing, amazing performance
00:19:36
Speaker
sometimes they're playing in not quite the same role like we discussed with Christante and it's difficult because the expectation is all on them but they're lost without the direction and the coaching of Gasparini and they're, you know, especially like at Milan when you think about Kesier, he's had so much turmoil there since he arrived, you know?
00:20:04
Speaker
Kaldara has definitely struggled at Juve and Milan and now he's back at Atalanta. I mean, the only ones I can think of that I've done well outside of Atalanta are Bastoni and Manchigiano Camancini. Those are the only ones that I can think of. Yeah, but they've still got stuff to prove. Exactly. I don't think anybody could say he's a definite 100% success.
00:20:26
Speaker
No, no, you can't. John, what's your thoughts on this? Yeah, I mean, another one that comes to my mind is being at Zola, who has done good for Roman. True, true. I'm just looking at some of the names here and it's, I mean, it's alarming. Conti, he's failed at Milana. I mean, we could go on and on and on and on and on.
00:20:46
Speaker
Certainly you have to give credence to the system. I just yeah, I I really don't know I it's an interesting question and I know that we I think we all know that this is something that's being raised more and more in Italy because This is you know, given that they've become such a selling club that cashes in on players And yeah, okay petanya as well. He's done really well for himself But but no, but but if you look at the Atlanta there they've become such a selling club and they sell for lots of money 45 million cool stuff skinner
00:21:16
Speaker
And therefore, I think, you know, you know, they'll, you know, they'll probably be struggled to sell to other clubs if this continues. I don't know. And it's weird too, because I'm just thinking about it. And look at some of the players that they have and how many different positions they play in. Like I'm thinking about Cristante. He would play forward, he would play in the midfield. They have Gozens, they have Castagna. I mean, they have all these guys who
00:21:45
Speaker
play in several different roles. It's not even that they have a defined position. But you see, I think that's a really good point because that alludes to the whole idea of balance. A team needs to be balanced. And Christante and these players, they were players that suited that system because the entire team was balanced in a way where they all played to their strengths.
00:22:07
Speaker
Now Christante is playing some kind of a traditional regista role at Roma, and he, you know, the team, that is not a system that he can play in, that is balanced to getting the strengths, to getting him to prove, to get the best out of him. And I think that is something we can see with a lot of players. With
Milan Derby: Anticipation and Strategies
00:22:26
Speaker
Kesia, I think is a brilliant example of that. Conti, Kaldara, they were injured. Petania did all right at Atalanta, he's been great at Spal, now he's going to Napoli.
00:22:34
Speaker
I think Galliardini is an excellent example of that. He was so, so good in that Eta Palanta. He got really, they really got the best out of him and the team was balanced in a way, both attacking wise and defensively, that suited him. At Inter, he's in no man's land, except for the first six months when he came under Pioli, where he had Condogbia mixed in. So I think you're absolutely right there. I think you're onto something there.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting. Definitely. Sorry about that. No, it's fine. Well, let's talk about the meal on Derby before we go though. So obviously the big one of the weekend. Yeah.
00:23:13
Speaker
I want to talk about Helena. Can me not actually do it? Yes. Oh, come on. I don't see it. On paper, it's a definite win for Inter, isn't it? Oh, come on. Stop with your jinxes. I'm sorry.
00:23:32
Speaker
But it is. But we all know that these matches are not normal matches. So in a way, I don't even think there's any point predicting it. It's a case of Sunday evening or whatever time it is, wherever you are, sit down, relax and just enjoy the spectacle because that's how they always are. That's what I was going to say. This Derby is once again starting to reach the levels where it should be at, the spectacle, the
00:24:00
Speaker
the fireworks. It's at the La Scala del Calcha, this amazing scene. It's a night game. You have two Curvals who put up these amazing Tifos and the wall of sound, everything. Just enjoy it. And I think it's going to be two teams that are going to go attack. I think both of these teams. I think Pioli and
00:24:22
Speaker
a certain Ibrahimovic who was always haunted and taunted Inter. This is the ultimate way for them to kind of just stick that flag in the ground and say, we're here, we're back and completely crap all over Inter's season, because it would send Inter spinning into what could be a crisis. Not saying that it will, but it could, because Inter spent a lot in January, they won unconvincingly against Odinese, they
00:24:49
Speaker
They went through to the finals, to the semifinal of the Copa Italia after beating Fiorentina. This is an important month. And Inter have, you know, after this, they have Lazio. And this is one of those months that Inter could, you know, that could really, really hurt Inter. So I think this is, Milan are relishing this. And Ibrahimovic is the perfect guy to have in these situations. There is literally no pressure on Milan. And whatever they have, he just takes on
00:25:17
Speaker
they can just go out there and they can cause trouble. Then I think what really concerns me is the fact that if Antonio Conte insists on
00:25:26
Speaker
starting with Christian Ericsson. I don't think this is a game where you start Christian Ericsson. Let him ease into this role. He doesn't have to be good today or tomorrow in a week or two. We've bought him for the long run. Right now, your best midfield is Brozovic Barrella Sensi or Brozovic Barrella Borja. That is play the 3-5-2 that you've played so far this season that has worked, that the players feel a sense of security.
00:25:50
Speaker
And I'm afraid that he's going to go a little bit arrogant the way that Kante can and overconfident at times become a little bit too arrogant for his own good. And I think that Inter could end up throwing away this game. That is my biggest fear because I think I agree with you. If we're all serious, there is no doubt if we're a quality player for player, Inter are way better, way better than Milan.
00:26:11
Speaker
But that's not how these games go. It's about who can get his players to execute the match plan to 100% and which of these coaches has the best match plan. So predictions. Let's go. No, I don't do this. Karaman Si. I don't predict Barbies. I don't predict Barbies. I don't predict Barbies. I'm not going to do it. Chloe, you do it. I'm a Conelio. I have to get it. I have a Conelio.
00:26:38
Speaker
Well in recent times they've quite often ended in high scoring draws so I'm gonna go for a 2-2. John, come on then. 3-1, eat there. Because Milan's good results have actually, thinking about it, they have actually come against quite a few lesser sides so whether they can continue against the better side I don't know.
00:27:02
Speaker
But Fiorentina, yeah, we'll see. I mean, Fiorentina, Atalanta, and then Roma are playing. Who are the Roma playing this weekend? At home to Bologna. Nihailovic, yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker
Helas Juventus is the one I think everyone should look out for as well. Helas plays some amazing football. No, I mean, I know you're laughing. They play good football. Seriously, they do. Ivan Djuric is playing, got them playing some damn good football. Ivan Djuric has got out of the toxic atmosphere of Genoa. Genoa? And he's thriving. Everyone who gets away from Preciosi has. I was going to say that's more of an indictment of Preciosi than Djuric in my opinion. I mean, look at Gasparini. He's thriving. He's like a
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. All right. Well, we will be back after the weekend to break down all that has happened. So thank you again for joining us and we will talk to you next week. Bye bye.