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Politically in Circus with Martin Frenette- Circuspreneur Podcast Ep.110
37 Plays4 months ago
#Civicengagement #CircusinPolitics #CircusArtists #Politicspodcast #Globalcitizens
In this episode of the Circuspreneur Podcast, we’re getting real about politics… from the perspective of circus artists. Host Shenea Stiletto is sitting down with her friend and fellow circus professional Martin Frenette, and together they're talking about what it’s like to navigate today’s political climate—not as analysts or policy makers—but as performers and creatives who live it from the ground up.
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Transcript
Introduction to Circuspreneur Podcast
00:00:01
Circuspreneur Podcast
Welcome to the Circuspreneur podcast. I'm your host, Shanae Saletto. We are sponsored by SageLink.com.
00:00:05
Martin Frenette
Thank you.
00:00:07
Circuspreneur Podcast
And this is where creativity meets advocacy and the business of circus is reimagined. And I am here today.
Guest Introduction and Theme: Circus in Civic Spaces
00:00:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
not just to support circus on the stage, but also at the decision-making table. And joining me is someone who knows circus from the inside out. He is an artist, creator, and fellow circus savant, Martin Frenette.
00:00:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
And together today, we are asking the real questions. What happens when circus artists step into civic spaces? How does movement become message? And can balancing on our hands help us better balance policy?
00:00:48
Circuspreneur Podcast
This isn't just about performing anymore. It's about representation, and it's about bringing the story of circus into the rooms where laws are written and futures are shaped.
Reunion Reflections and Episode Title
00:00:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
That's a little bit official for how we talk, but welcome to the podcast, or welcome back, actually, Martin.
00:01:05
Martin Frenette
Thank you.
00:01:08
Circuspreneur Podcast
It's been a minute since we...
00:01:10
Martin Frenette
I've been waiting for this return to your podcast.
00:01:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
Oh, yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:01:13
Martin Frenette
It's been a few years, yeah
00:01:13
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's been a few years It's been a few years too long. It's been a few years too long. I feel like we've had some conversations that have been podcast worthy.
00:01:24
Martin Frenette
WhatsApp has been an amazing podcast platform that no one has tipped into, unfortunately.
00:01:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
You know, somebody somebody somebody will, and maybe that's maybe that's our next act.
00:01:37
Martin Frenette
It will be... the archive will get found by someone in the desert and they will be revealed.
00:01:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
You get it.
00:01:43
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes, at some point in time. And it'll be a hilarious politically circus, politically in circus, politically incorrect circus. We've been we've been you know throwing out a couple of different titles for this episode over the last...
00:02:02
Circuspreneur Podcast
couple weeks in deciding, you know, how we were going to, how we were going to do this. And I think, I think that, I think that was a good one. And you do definitely find out in all of our what's ups because that's, that's how we spar. That's how we get down. That's how we relate to one another.
00:02:18
Circuspreneur Podcast
and you're my, you're my, you're my favorite circus politics friend or circus political friend. What, what, what, you know, what, what, what do we, what do
Balancing Circus Life and Politics
00:02:26
Circuspreneur Podcast
we say? What do we call it? What do we, how do we, yeah.
00:02:31
Martin Frenette
politic geek posing as an aerialist.
00:02:36
Martin Frenette
Because I don't know many trapeze artists or robe artists that are deep into watching our lovely leaders fighting about issues while they're doing splits, which is what I do.
00:02:36
Circuspreneur Podcast
quick Yeah, yeah.
00:02:48
Martin Frenette
While I'm in oversplits, I'm listening to the government passing laws and debating over issues. So yeah, I don't know many aerialists do that. Thanks.
00:02:55
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right. And I'm doing it in handstands. Yep. I'm usually, you know, upside down twirling on my canes and, you know, watching breaking points, which is one of my favorite ways to absorb the political news, the, or be to be civically engaged, you know, however you want to call it to, you know, my civic duty or,
00:03:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
you know, see kind of what's happening, you know, in the course of the world, actually, because, you know, for me, it's not just limited to American politics. I know that American politics takes up a lot of energy in the room for a lot of people. But, you know, the political climate is very diverse conversation. And for the circus, obviously, like, we are a very worldly bunch. You are in currently living in Stuttgart, but you are originally from Canada.
00:03:47
Circuspreneur Podcast
And I have been bouncing over for the better part of my entire life and am currently living and residing in the States, which has been an interesting space for me for these past several years.
00:04:01
Circuspreneur Podcast
And being, yeah, to say the least...
00:04:02
Martin Frenette
Who's in the least?
00:04:06
Circuspreneur Podcast
Being very up close and personal with them all the willings and dealings of our government. As folks know, I spend a good amount, a fair amount, I would say, engaging in D.C. in person and also to virtually behind the scenes, if you will. Right.
00:04:26
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah. So, you know. I asked I make my way. Yeah.
00:04:32
Martin Frenette
Well, as i mean honestly, if you look at like the late hosts, the late show's hosts like Jimmy Kimmel or Stephen Colbert, who at times are getting hit for all you always talk about Trump and about politics.
00:04:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:04:44
Martin Frenette
Yeah, well, they entertain and I think people pay more attention actually. So because it's not like an actually like news channel, people are getting somehow entertained at the same time. but the news are the same.
00:05:00
Martin Frenette
Whether it's read by like a late night host or an actual journalist at his desk at CNN, the news the same, but a late night show host will make it a bit funner. So as us artists as well, I think someone like you being in DC and representing not only artists or Americans, but just like human beings,
Unique Perspectives of Circus Performers in Politics
00:05:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
no
00:05:22
Martin Frenette
you have a different voice, a different take because you are also an artist.
00:05:26
Martin Frenette
So you may have different wording, but the message will come across nevertheless.
00:05:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
I think they get a kick out of my wording sometimes. And that is not a joke. Sometimes get the most interesting response of like, wow, wow, we've, well, we've never met someone like you before, or we, this is a fascinating conversation.
00:05:50
Circuspreneur Podcast
We never thought about the circus in that light. You know, oftentimes they think of politics and they use circus as kind of like, you know, the bunt of so many jokes, right?
00:06:00
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:06:01
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right. And, you know, that can get that can get hurtful. So I think, you know, through the course of the podcast and, you know, trying to have more complex conversations that we usually have in the circus anyway. It's not like we just started having these conversations. People have been obviously very civically engaged and high minded for years in the circus. It's a very refined and fascinating group.
00:06:21
Circuspreneur Podcast
But folks in those spaces in government and, you know, whatever, you know They don't you know usually talk to a lot of us. And i think that they get a kick out of you know when we enter the room. And I think we provide a really interesting perspective about you know how do we balance living in this world and being engaged in that way politically and also to you know existing in the circus because the circus is like such a lifestyle. And you know you really have to wear a ton of hats when you are in our industry. And I think people in our industry are some of the most intellectually savvy folks when it comes to the political sphere because everyone is in any type of country or any space and anywhere in the world at any point in time engaging with somebody else in real time. And i think that that is such like a fascinating way to be in the world, right? Like that's what keeps me engaged. And I ended knowing, you know, so many things where people are like, oh how did you know that was going on there? I'm like, well, they just opened a show. Yeah.
00:07:24
Martin Frenette
But also, like, even when you say that our leaders don't really talk with Oscars people, and I always think it is a shame because... I would like people to know we don't only do the splits and throw stuff in the air.
00:07:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right. Right.
00:07:39
Martin Frenette
Some serious people are extremely eloquent, educated, and excellent communicators. And when you think about it, we always have to sell ourselves and explain. like If we want to get a grant or get booked on a show, you have to use the right words.
00:07:57
Martin Frenette
And when it comes to researching our market, our country, or we need to research, read, process, find the right words.
00:07:57
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:08:05
Martin Frenette
And I think there are such brilliant minds in the sickness world that unfortunately aren't getting heard. I'm waiting for a few names in mind.
00:08:17
Martin Frenette
When is your memoir coming out on even philosophy? Even though you're juggler, I want to read... your memoir on philosophy because you have a unique take on it.
00:08:27
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:08:28
Circuspreneur Podcast
Oh, I like the sound of that. Again, folks that juggle a lot of jugg a lot of capacities. but
00:08:36
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:08:36
Circuspreneur Podcast
Literally and you know and figuratively. you know Yeah, we're just like not people I think that you can put inside of a box. you know Only when we want to be.
00:08:44
Martin Frenette
Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, you know, when when when the time is around, when lights go on and you need be split in the half, get in the box there.
00:08:52
Circuspreneur Podcast
Been there, done that. Yeah. As challenging and as scary as everybody thinks, okay?
00:08:58
Martin Frenette
yeah
00:08:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
Like, you know, I i like to be on that end, but, you know, not not every day. but
00:09:05
Martin Frenette
Can be a bit de demanding to always have to put yourself back together in one piece, indeed, yeah.
00:09:10
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah, exactly. And and and and show up.
00:09:13
Martin Frenette
And have a six-pack ad never left, it would have been cut in two.
00:09:18
Circuspreneur Podcast
And make it to the bow. yeah Some things so things are just... And hold your breath. I mean, I've done the whole gambit. yeah and so and It could be it could it could be a tricky a tricky a tricky thing. But yeah, you know it's it's i think I think it's really you know important for you know for those of us where this conversation is important. And for some people in the industry, it isn't actually that important to them. You know, they see other things as, you know, as as a bigger focus. But I think the more, you know, we start to get engaged, the more it inspires other people within the industry to get engaged, which I see that as a really powerful step.
Circus Voices and Political Influence
00:09:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
Also too, in, I think this generation of circus where, you know, people are looking towards circus laws. They're not just looking for, you know, just small different pizza pieces of the pie. We're looking for, you know, a bigger seat at the table of being engaged, of making sure that like one of us is in the room, which I have found, you know, like just super advantageous and which I think is something that's very important because if you don't set
00:10:26
Circuspreneur Podcast
you know, the barometer for where your industry is going, somebody else is going to set it for you. And, you know, we are a group that really likes to be in control and we like to be involved. You know, we're very, we're very hands-on. So I think it's a shame that, you know, if we are left out of that conversation with how hands-on we all are, I mean, you don't get to be an artist like yourself or like me or you know,
00:10:49
Circuspreneur Podcast
so many of the other artists that we know that are super proactive, you don't get that far in having a career like this, that isn't easy, you know, to have or to keep or to justify.
00:11:00
Circuspreneur Podcast
i mean, like we're all justifying what we do every single day. you know, sometimes people ask me about justifying things politically and I'm like, oh, don't worry. I have to justify my existence as a circus performer to people every single day.
00:11:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
What show are you in? Well, how long have you been working here? Have you ever worked for that company? Well, have you worked with this person? Do you know that person? Do you know that director? Have you worked with that agent? Well, what's your background?
00:11:25
Circuspreneur Podcast
Did you come from this circus school? Did you come from sport? I mean, you're just constantly, you know, how do you make it? Is this your only job? Do you work somewhere else? Do you have a, do you have a bigger career than this?
00:11:36
Circuspreneur Podcast
Do you have a degree? Did you go to school? Did you go to college? I mean, it's a, you know, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot in defense of the circus, right?
00:11:42
Martin Frenette
But...
00:11:45
Martin Frenette
And it really goes beyond the state, as you were saying, with the degree question. I've had many people ask me or ask other people like people in the industry, but where's your degree in x or Y?
00:11:55
Martin Frenette
Even 20 something years ago, when it started, Shanna Carroll told me, well, not that, but at at the time told me when they were getting grant to start a company, like they were asked, okay, well, so like theater director will direct the show.
00:11:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah.
00:12:10
Martin Frenette
No, circus people will direct a show. and Are dance people going choreographed? No. Sickest people can direct and choreographed, but you didn't study that. So this reality of like, oh, sickest people can do more.
00:12:26
Martin Frenette
Like we don't have the degree or the masters or like the college, whatever, like the Ivy League education behind us, even though some have. But, uh, to think, well, when you've been in an industry for 10, 20, how many years does matter?
00:12:44
Martin Frenette
You have like, ill always say, I wish often there were more serious purposes in the government and in those interest like in those agencies, because we have like, the show must go on. It's a cliche, but it's true. I think every sicker's person has the emergency in their blood. Like, okay, well, we need to find a solution.
00:13:03
Martin Frenette
We just need to fix it. There's a show in half an hour. people are sick and throwing up.
00:13:08
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:13:09
Martin Frenette
What can we do? Okay, go.
00:13:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right. And there's no understudies. There's no backup.
00:13:14
Martin Frenette
Yes.
00:13:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
We are the backup. Yeah.
00:13:16
Martin Frenette
Yes.
00:13:19
Circuspreneur Podcast
You were now the backup. Well, you know, that's a good question for you bringing that up in terms of like the show goes on because like we do have some questions for this episode, folks.
00:13:30
Circuspreneur Podcast
I know it seems like sometimes things are very off the cuff, but we do a little bit of homework and we have a little bit of a plan for this episode.
00:13:36
Martin Frenette
We have
00:13:40
Circuspreneur Podcast
We're not going to do it as, you know, off the cuff as our conversations usually are because I think people can handle that. Yeah. They definitely, they could not handle that. But if America were bringing this back to the States, because obviously the States again takes up so much energy.
00:13:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
And yes, we do acknowledge that America is not the center of the universe, but America does hold a lot of cards.
00:14:01
Martin Frenette
Influence.
00:14:02
Circuspreneur Podcast
They have a lot of influence. in the world and that can't be lost on and i don't think it's lost on anybody people really pay attention to what america does but yes there are you know the world is very big and there are many spaces in the world that are very also too influential and very important to the demographic and conversation but martin if america were a circus show right now that one's juicy what act would we be watching comedy acrobatics or controlled chaos like
00:14:34
Martin Frenette
None of that, I think, would be watching tent being built up. And people asking too many questions instead of just like getting the props and pulling the tent.
00:14:40
Circuspreneur Podcast
Oh.
00:14:45
Martin Frenette
I really think we are actually in phase right now where we realize, okay, we're missing too many pieces and the mother is not working. help. I think we're in a... not a crisis, but now we are building and trying to rebuild and like the field is empty and it needs a tent to be risen, like to to rose.
00:15:10
Martin Frenette
So I don't think we're at an act yet. We just need to build a tent first place. and follow the way the Swiss do it. It's... they always are the same way, but it works.
00:15:22
Martin Frenette
They put a tent up. It can rain, it can snow. The tent goes up. And I think we're in a place now where we just need to stop looking, stop pointing fingers at who forgot to bring their hammer, whatever it is.
00:15:36
Martin Frenette
Just build the tent.
00:15:41
Circuspreneur Podcast
I love that. Just collaborate, work together.
00:15:43
Martin Frenette
Yes. Yes.
00:15:45
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great, you know, also too, because in the circus, whether or not you want to collaborate, you are going to collaborate, right?
00:15:53
Martin Frenette
You don't have a choice.
00:15:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
You don't a choice. Because someone doesn't effectually speak the same language as you. Again, very different backgrounds.
00:16:01
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:16:04
Circuspreneur Podcast
And then just us also two very different life circumstances coming into a show, right? I mean, i might, you know, be coming from caravan life.
00:16:09
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:16:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
You might be coming from hotel life. Another person might be coming from, I live full-time local life. Like, thats those are all three very big different demographics. Right.
00:16:23
Circuspreneur Podcast
coming into a show. Some people want to live on outside the circus. Other people, again, would like to have their laundry done inside of a space where, where it's a controlled environment. Other people, it's not a big deal. I mean, these are questions and tasks that we realistically look at when we're going to take a contract and we're going to go do a show. I mean, like, I know it's always like on my list, like how, what is like my day-to-day going to look like? And again, the day-to-day you know, in terms of our our our our government is like, yes, maybe you are all coming from this, but guess what? You can still find a way to meet somewhere, not necessarily maybe in the middle, because I know people don't like hearing that, but we know how to just get things done in circus. And, you know, i think the threat of not being able to get things done is a really big challenge that we're facing right now
Political Division and Need for Collaboration
00:17:18
Circuspreneur Podcast
too. And that's a very dangerous thing because if you can't, get things done, then people don't get the important things that they need. If you can't put certain things aside to do those very you know important collaborations.
00:17:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
What part of government or politics do you feel is center stage at the moment? And then what do you think deserves a bigger spotlight? Yeah.
00:17:42
Martin Frenette
I think what is taking too much pace, right, now what is at the center stage, unfortunately, as said before, is finger pointing. And we like, oh, for instance, if you just like at the shutdown, the Democrats kept saying, oh, it's the Republicans shut down, Republicans, oh, Democrats shut down.
00:18:00
Martin Frenette
Am I listening to my niece and nephews that are in their very, very early age? Like, it's... I really feel like... And like, even there's no more centrist. It's just like, you are this, you are that.
00:18:14
Martin Frenette
Can we don't label everyone and even accept that if we just stop putting the blame on something or someone...
00:18:14
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:18:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:18:23
Martin Frenette
we could actually find a solution. But if if you focus too much time on where is the leak coming from, you're going to be soaking wet. If you just like put a bucket or close the pipe, whatever it is, the leak will stop and you will be dry.
00:18:38
Martin Frenette
But right now, I think at the center stage, it's just division, actually. people want to be put or want to put others in a box, in a category.
00:18:42
Circuspreneur Podcast
Oh.
00:18:47
Martin Frenette
And like a small anecdote, but like I was recently on a show and there was an American on the show and she threw something plastic, like a plastic bottle in the trash.
00:18:58
Martin Frenette
And another castmate grew up and looked at her and said, well, I didn't know you were a Trumpist.
00:19:05
Circuspreneur Podcast
oh
00:19:07
Martin Frenette
And I really froze halfway to my makeup and was... What? Did I miss it? Oh, well, you know, she doesn't believe in climate of change and she doesn't recycle.
00:19:19
Martin Frenette
Okay, so because on this one moment she threw a plastic bottle in the trash, she never recycles, doesn't believe any plastic change, and voted for Trump. Sure.
00:19:30
Martin Frenette
So I think right now at the center stage, we need to stop passing judgment and trying to put everyone in a certain box and a label because we, and even if you look, like, that same issue comes up when it comes to diversity and, like, how with the jurymen right now,
00:19:37
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes.
00:19:46
Martin Frenette
clearly it is aiming for black communities and Latinos and it's why do we need to aim for these areas and those states or those like neighborhoods that are more of one ethnicity when everyone should have the same right to vote and that have to show 20 more pieces of ID and a blood sample to show that they can vote, you know?
00:20:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
I mean, like, why isn't it just a national and nationally recognized holiday where people get the day off? And then, again, it's a law.
00:20:17
Martin Frenette
Yes. Mm-hmm.
00:20:19
Circuspreneur Podcast
I think in Australia, it's a law. If you don't vote, you get a fine. Like, they give you a ticket if you don't vote. And... I think we could do something like that here. And I mean, okay, maybe we don't have to give people a ticket, but give people the day off. It should be a holiday. It should be celebrated. It's the most important, one of the most important days of the year. I mean, so that people can also too have some space to look at who their candidates are. I mean, we just had a really big election here, obviously, right? And there was, you know, a really big shift.
00:20:49
Circuspreneur Podcast
And the demographic. And I think that just goes to show again for people, there are no boxes. People are are not linear when it comes to politics. I don't care what anybody says. The way that we just saw politics shift in this last election was huge.
00:20:58
Martin Frenette
Yes.
00:21:03
Circuspreneur Podcast
So many people, they voted completely different from how they voted last year. mean, completely different. And we know that. because of who got elected in this current cycle. And, you know, for me, I just think that people are so much more multifaceted than that. And you can't even just say if they're a certain way on one issue, that that's the only person that's they are, that that's all of who they are. you might They might vote with you on the other 25 things. There might be one other core issue that is just not something that they're interested in. You can't say necessarily if you do that vote, you're definitely going to continue to vote that way indefinitely. It is absolutely untrue. If you give people strong enough reasons to not vote for something, they actually will not do it.
00:21:51
Circuspreneur Podcast
they will not do it. They can see through the facades. They can see through things. Or again, they don't really need to see through anything if you're kind of throwing it in their face of things that you maybe said that you would represent.
00:22:04
Circuspreneur Podcast
And they are quickly seeing that you are no longer representing those things. Well, they are going to find a way to vote against you or vote against any of those things that would help you to drive home those things that they don't want to see or support. they People just have a lot of power. And I think that comes back to why it's so important for, you know, those of us in our industries and in our communities to vote for what is important for us, or even just discover what is important to you and kind of not look away from that again, because you can shift conversations very quickly. And, you know, I'm, I'm very curious of, you know, what this next upcoming election will be for even 2026, right? Because
00:22:47
Circuspreneur Podcast
There are a lot of folks that you know that participated even in the shutdown that their seats will be up for re-election in 2026. So even in terms of whatever you were upset about with whoever handled the shutdown, if somebody didn't handle that appropriately or it didn't come from the way that you felt like it should have been handled, well, guess what?
00:23:08
Circuspreneur Podcast
Look and see if they are going to be up for election this next cycle.
00:23:10
Martin Frenette
Back.
00:23:13
Circuspreneur Podcast
And then if you know people, in that district, in that state, in that circus space, because we're speaking to our community. Hey, why don't you get engaged and get involved and you know throw your your weight into those races?
00:23:27
Circuspreneur Podcast
Because again, these these these these these bigger races, obviously see very important, but these last races on these local levels are what is so important. The judges, the gerrymandering.
00:23:37
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:23:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
I mean, they passed something really big in California
00:23:38
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:23:41
Circuspreneur Podcast
which they thought they would never do because California, again, is considered this very liberal, liberal state coming as somebody who's from originally from California. California is incredibly diverse, and there's a very big swath of of California that is incredibly conservative, by the way.
00:23:56
Circuspreneur Podcast
and But they never thought that they would do a gerrymandering bill in California or rediststering redistricting, redistricting, redistricting, redistricting.
00:24:05
Martin Frenette
yeah
00:24:06
Circuspreneur Podcast
Help me out, Martin. You got this subject most of the time better than me.
00:24:09
Martin Frenette
I got it.
00:24:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
But you know you know on that side, because they saw that this was being done in states that would be traditionally the spaces to do that. And so you know they say, well, why don't we why don't we now do that?
00:24:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
Why don't we meet their stance with our stance, which is kind of a new stance. Now, whether or not you agree with that, I'm just saying what happened. Not necessarily what we're for, what we're against here.
00:24:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
But Again, Martin, you just so eloquently described what those efforts are for. And so, you know, again, seeing a space that people wouldn't expect in California to do that, again, makes you rethink how much power you have as a constituency, as a voter, and then, know, as folks that are that are civically or politically engaged.
00:24:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
So, you You know, those things, you can meet fire with fire and you can go toe to toe with spaces that you feel are, i don't know, maybe not fighting fair or, you know, not fighting above the belt.
00:25:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
But where can you use policy to effectuate policy changes to? Right. Like, I think that is something to remember. And yeah. So what do you think? but What's the next one that I want to do? OK, that's interesting. Well, circus is all about ensemble.
Ensemble Nature of Circus and Politics
00:25:31
Circuspreneur Podcast
How does that compare to political or civic life today? You kind of spoke to that in a way, but I feel like you could maybe speak to that even more because that's kind of cute. I like that.
00:25:43
Martin Frenette
Well, I think there it is, like Ensemble, as we've said many times offstage, it takes a village to make a show. And I think we really learn quickly, for instance, when you are building up a tent or even like i I was even with my big shape, I was a puller at times for under aerialists. We need people.
00:26:06
Martin Frenette
we and you allocate well Even as simple as even you are a contortionist or the ambulance that doesn't have a big prop, you need someone to just like open the curtain for you. We all need... I don't i love in a way the fact that there is no... If you look at a ballet company, there are principals, there are soloists.
00:26:25
Martin Frenette
Nothing that they're they're more important than the call to ballet, but there are like quote-unquote stars. When it comes to circus, we just all need to be there and we all need to rely on each other and support each other. And the thing I like in pretty much every show I've been a part of, when it comes to, oh, we need someone to bring in Victor's balls on the stage or oh we need someone to make sure that Lucy's chair will be there on time.
00:26:52
Martin Frenette
There are no fights. I've never been in a place where people were like hiding.
00:26:55
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:26:56
Martin Frenette
Like, oh, well, no, because like I might need someone's help eventually.
00:26:56
Circuspreneur Podcast
no
00:27:00
Martin Frenette
Or if some it's like if someday my butt is showing, I would like the person behind me to pull down my costume or there really is this community feeling.
00:27:10
Martin Frenette
And I think the thing I'm most grateful for when I look at my career, is how, actually, the amount of people I've met and love different cultures I've been exposed to, because it doesn't matter, again, that you come from college, from a circus school, from the street, from caravan, from... You are in that show with me.
00:27:35
Martin Frenette
You may be from Bulgaria, from France, from the US, from...
00:27:35
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:27:39
Martin Frenette
God knows where, but at the end of the day we all, and obviously being physical people, we have body language. And even when you speak only like words of that person's whatever that they speak, Ethiopian, or well, your body language speaks a lot. And I think...
00:27:57
Martin Frenette
through the years also I've seen people being careful even the way they behave physically, the way they even like shake hands for a show. Like I've noticed sometime before the show way we hug or yeah, we shake hands or there is a like if you don't speak someone's language or if you don't know someone that clearly, you will be grabbed their back in different way or like in in in a polite way.
00:28:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
Okay.
00:28:17
Martin Frenette
I think there is, i might be a bit just going to utopia here, but I think we are less or actually who we're more colorblind in a good way.
00:28:31
Martin Frenette
We don't need our backstage all white or all black or all brown or all... No, wait, it's like multicolored and that's the beauty of it. it's I'm gonna quote, it I have to, I'm gonna quote the great Tina Fey here who once said,
00:28:50
Martin Frenette
you don't want to be a bunch of Caucasian people in the room trying to discuss what a black person would say. You bring in the black person. The same way you wouldn't do a soup with only one ingredient, you know? So same thing for a show. I'm like, i don't want to be in a show with all...
00:29:07
Martin Frenette
16 years old from the same academy or only 40 years old, I've been working for 20 years in the same country. like You want diversity in terms of experience and of life, of backgrounds, of ethnicity.
00:29:21
Martin Frenette
And i think this ensemble can be very rich. And I've learned And like, silly, very silly, but I have learned new recipes on each show. Like, people swap recipes and like, oh, and like we make a puddle lock and oh wait, how did you bake that little fluffy thing?
00:29:31
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah.
00:29:34
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah.
00:29:38
Martin Frenette
Oh, cool. I will try it. And then five years later, oh, I'm baking Orleans pie tonight.
00:29:40
Circuspreneur Podcast
I like f
00:29:44
Martin Frenette
And it's still there. Yeah.
00:29:45
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah, like Friendsgiving. I mean, like I've had some of my best Thanksgivings not in America because the entire cast got together and they were like, we want to give you a Thanksgiving experience. And it's been so special and, you know, so sweet and just so like absolutely lovely.
00:29:55
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:30:02
Circuspreneur Podcast
And I think, you know, we've like all been informed by... you know being around so many different environments. I think we're all global citizens. That's what I like to think of myself whenever I'm in any room.
00:30:14
Circuspreneur Podcast
And I love what you said too about like when you notice who is around you. And I think that's something really important. And I think like the overall respect that we all do have when we come together and do a show.
00:30:26
Circuspreneur Podcast
I mean, sometimes we're existing off of so little ability to communicate and the amount of things that get done, I think is just truly exceptional in our industry and the amount of decorum.
00:30:37
Martin Frenette
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
and the amount of interest and love. I mean, you can literally become somebody's very close or best friend within the course of a couple of days. I i know people now that I met very briefly, but had so much involvement with them during the show and we still know each other.
00:30:57
Circuspreneur Podcast
and The fact that you can go into almost any space in the world, and if you're circus and you see somebody else who's circus, that is an immediate friend. It is an immediate friend. It is an immediate ally in a way that I don't think people really can grasp, you know, how you can also, too, maybe even find one person in common.
00:31:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
which is, I think, extraordinary. You could be just, wow, like think that there's, you know, maybe not one thing that could bridge even that gap. And then you talk and you talk and you talk, you find a way to communicate, you use your phone, you use whatever you use. And you're like, oh my gosh, like we totally know this person or we've been in the same show or, you know, we've been in some space that was, you know, similar in some kind of way. And I think that we could really use that, you know, again, coming back to the way that people,
00:31:46
Circuspreneur Podcast
see the circus and say, oh, the politics right now is such a circus. No, you could use us. You could use you could use our circusness inside of what is going on in these spaces.
00:31:51
Martin Frenette
All right.
00:31:59
Circuspreneur Podcast
Because i think the diplomacy that we have within our industry is very extra special. Again, we're not trying to say that everything is is perfect in the circus. I know that Everyone, you know, would want us to acknowledge that and will always acknowledge that no industry and no space is is perfect and every space is, you know, forever evolving.
00:32:19
Circuspreneur Podcast
But to open, I think, the minds of folks in terms of like, how we coordinate and how we exist in this world. And that extra specialness and the lens that we see, you know, our government through or, you know, other governments in the world or the political sphere is through very unique eyes.
00:32:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
And so we are coming to the last like minute or so of the podcast, Martin, we do need to wrap it up, even though I could speak to you all day long.
00:32:49
Martin Frenette
We're just getting started here!
00:32:51
Circuspreneur Podcast
We are just revving our engines, I know. And this is a very small, small, small piece. Like I said, we are giving you a sliver of how deep in and the depths of where our conversations usually and go.
00:33:01
Martin Frenette
Please beg for part 2 online. Ask for more.
00:33:06
Circuspreneur Podcast
There might be a part two coming. right There might be a part three coming. There might be there might be there might be an additional series.
00:33:13
Martin Frenette
Many installments, yeah.
00:33:14
Circuspreneur Podcast
many installments between me and Martin, but let's see here. So I think maybe to round out our conversation, let's bring it back to something really funny. and and Because it's very hard in some ways for people to laugh right now. And to again, have some fun with things that are going on because things sometimes feel very heavy, or that people just have to fight all the time.
Humor in Politics: Lessons from Clown Acts
00:33:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
But what is the funniest thing you've seen in the political arena recently, other than everybody involved. And something that truly qualifies as, this is bringing circus into this, but only in the best way as some type of a clown act. And how do we keep our sense of humor even when the show feels messy?
00:34:01
Martin Frenette
Well, we discussed this before we started actually recording, so I will repeat myself now, but probably in regards to the Epstein files, when months ago it was established, oh, no, there are no need for for further investigations, and no, like, we don't need to pursue this, it is over.
00:34:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
Hmm.
00:34:23
Martin Frenette
And then the same person, Pat Bundy, was really straight about, oh no, there's no need for an investigation. When asked, why are starting these new investigations now on Bill Clinton and all these Democrats?
00:34:36
Martin Frenette
Oh well, we found information.
00:34:41
Martin Frenette
I was having a hot cup of chai latte and I spat on my wall.
00:34:41
Circuspreneur Podcast
It's a little...
00:34:46
Martin Frenette
i was like, and like there wasn't information, but no, there is information.
00:34:53
Martin Frenette
Oh, I really, I had to laugh. was like, okay, well, it just, so I really, I just have to laugh. It's just ridiculous. Like, information. Could you be more vague, please?
00:35:03
Circuspreneur Podcast
You need more vague, Pam. i mean, we, again, we know where, we know where, we know where she comes from, miss. You know, I had a lot of power in Florida when a particular person, you know, could have been held accountable in a lot of several ways and I did nothing.
00:35:18
Circuspreneur Podcast
And now I'm in DC and throwing up my hands and I'm also so inconsistency. so concerned about all the files that are there that I wasn't concerned about when I was in a certain state, we'll mention it, Florida.
00:35:24
Martin Frenette
Yes.
00:35:28
Martin Frenette
Yes.
00:35:29
Circuspreneur Podcast
And I had so much power to influence how this individual was going to be tried, was going to be held accountable. And I, you know, kind of halfway, a little bit participated in that sweetheart deal that led to him continuing to have years and years and years of more influence, power, and the ability to abuse young girls.
00:35:52
Circuspreneur Podcast
and Yes. how how How interesting. We're so glad that now you've decided to stand up because you couldn't have done anything before you got into the position that you're in now.
00:36:05
Circuspreneur Podcast
So, you know, take your time. Please, not too much of a coordinated effort to stop the release of those files, which, again, for everybody seeing how there was a particular pivot, which I thought was hilarious, the pivot didn't matter because all of the necessary networks had already voted to release the files.
00:36:23
Circuspreneur Podcast
So that particular person didn't have to make a yeah U-turn to...
00:36:28
Martin Frenette
now
00:36:29
Circuspreneur Podcast
to release these files because the writing was already on the wall. All of the representatives had already voted to do that. So I am looking forward to this being less of less messy moving forward, but I don't think that that is going to be the case, especially with something that is so, you know, everybody's so charged about it, but people want so much information like so much you know so much to come from the release of these files. And I'll be very curious to see how this goes. There's already, like I said, some coordinated efforts to maybe block how these files are going to be distributed and what we are going to see even within the overall release of them. But yes, I thought that was also hilarious in terms of how Pam Bondi was relaying that particular
00:37:23
Circuspreneur Podcast
information, which we know that, again, it went from there is so much there to nothing to see here, folks, nothing on the video, nothing to see here. we didn't see a thing. Nothing ever happened. i don't yeah we we we never spoke about this before. I wasn't speaking about this before. i This was never something that I was motivated to investigate prior to this. So again, a lot of actors involved. For those of you who have not listened to my podcast on the Epstein files and the Epstein survivors, please do listen. i released that episode, i think just a few days ago. And that is my personal perspective as a survivor of UC Gymnastics. in supporting the survivors of Epstein, because when you've been a part of a prolific abuse ring, as I was as a young child, you know, these things hit differently when you see so many of the similarities and you see folks... trying to pivot away from revealing the truth and holding people accountable. So that, you know, that's, that's, there's nothing funny about that, but I'm glad that we can find something to laugh about within these scenarios that are not funny, that, you know, it takes, I think, a good,
00:38:46
Circuspreneur Podcast
level of emotional perspicacity to, you know, find the humor in these spaces. And i will thank the circus for giving us both that because as a default, as an artist, I am glad that I have, I think, a softer space to land on because I think we have a reserve that is unique and can at least soften the edges of things within life and in the political atmospheres that could be deemed otherwise intrusive and negative and very challenging
Conclusion and Future Episodes
00:39:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
to accept. But there are positive things on the horizon. Like I said, we have seen some new figures that have come into these spaces that I think are a breath of fresh air. And I'm very curious to see how they will pivot in favor of what they campaigned on, because you are, me,
00:39:44
Circuspreneur Podcast
to me only as good as what you are able to get done post your election. Yeah.
00:39:54
Martin Frenette
True, true.
00:39:55
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes.
00:39:55
Martin Frenette
Which it feels, although i have to say last year, especially last elections, it feels like it all about the campaign and once you got into office, whether it was a mayor, a president or whatever it is, oh well now I'm here, have a comfy seat.
00:40:11
Martin Frenette
Yeah but you spent the last month saying you would do X, Y and Z. When is this happening, you know?
00:40:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right. Right. Exactly. And that's the most important part for me. It's not only getting people elected or only getting elected. It's and are you doing anything that you said? And if you are pivoting away from certain things that you said, how can we hold you accountable for that pivot?
00:40:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah Because we remember what you said three months ago.
00:40:33
Martin Frenette
But even now you see, you know, like this week Zoran Mamdani already asked to meet Trump. He was just elected and was already getting some nice names from the men the White House. So, but it's like, no, no, I got elected and I told the people i would take care of these issues. I'm going to talk to men now because if you're a mayor, doesn't matter in which city, in which country you want to talk to the president or the prime minister. Like,
00:41:03
Martin Frenette
And he did. Already, he's been elected, like, what, it was two weeks ago?
00:41:04
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes.
00:41:07
Martin Frenette
now he was in the White House already. So I think there is something that I'm looking for in this new generation of, like, the Jasmine Crocket, the AOC, the Zala Mamdani.
00:41:09
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:18
Martin Frenette
Not saying all the other generation, like the older people are not good anymore. But this fresh take, this new energy, this like desire to change the world. And frankly, they're going to be there much longer than the older folks.
00:41:32
Martin Frenette
And my nieces and nephews are going to be there much longer than I will. So they need to be involved as well. I mean, they don't read most of them for now, but like still, they're getting there.
00:41:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah.
00:41:42
Circuspreneur Podcast
Well, I mean, we see people like Nancy Pelosi now retiring.
00:41:42
Martin Frenette
Yeah.
00:41:47
Circuspreneur Podcast
I mean, you know, it's it's it's it's it's it's the end of an era with, you know, political figures like her resigning, you know, again, other folks cycling out, you know,
00:41:47
Martin Frenette
yeah
00:41:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
Dick Cheney, prolific conservative figure, just passed away.
00:42:01
Martin Frenette
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:03
Circuspreneur Podcast
and yeah, there's definitely a new political climate. But my most important thing is it's not about what you say, it's about what you do. And it's about what you're able to get done.
00:42:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
And again, reminding people that that is what is also important. Like you said, once you get that seat at the table, does it become so cushy that you don't run a ruffle too many feathers to get the things done that you promised everybody that you would get done?
00:42:25
Martin Frenette
Mm-hmm.
00:42:30
Circuspreneur Podcast
And yes, it matters. If the person in a certain position is going to be the most instrumental in getting the things done for your constituents, you might want to meet with them and have a conversation or two.
00:42:42
Martin Frenette
Yes. Or three, even. Go for three.
00:42:45
Circuspreneur Podcast
Go for three. Go for it. Go for it. But thank you so much, Martin. This was a fantastic conversation today. loved it. You're so great. You're so amazing.
00:42:58
Circuspreneur Podcast
You're just so brilliant. And you know I love sparring back and forth with you. on the political in circusness, politically in circus, whatever we're calling this.
00:43:09
Circuspreneur Podcast
We're still working on the title folks, but thank you everyone for tuning into the podcast. I'm your host, Shanae Stiletto. Please like, and subscribe to the podcast. Thank you. Another big shout out to stage links.com.
00:43:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
Thank you everyone for tuning in to every single episode and to my episode with Martin Frenette. And please comment and let us know what you're thinking.
00:43:32
Circuspreneur Podcast
If you want more of this episode, more of this conversation, we can go for days, folks. We can go for days.
00:43:38
Martin Frenette
We can go.
00:43:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
We can bring it back. But until next time, everyone, please stay safe and stay healthy.