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1950 - BPD Sugar Mama
75 Plays4 months ago
New decade! We begin our journey through the films of the 1950s with a classic Disney animated fairytale, a tale of Hollywood darkness, Broadway rivalry, Kurosawa multi-perspective mystery, an invisible rabbit, and French existential dreams of the afterlife!
You can watch along with our video version of the episode here on Youtube!
You can check out our other social media crap here: http://linktr.ee/1w1y
And you can watch and form your own opinions from our 1950 Films Discussed playlist right here!
00:00:00 - Intro
00:05:18 - News of the Year
00:06:58 - Cinderella
00:23:02 - Sunset Blvd
00:50:51 - All About Eve
01:12:54 - Rashomon
01:35:15 - Harvey
01:56:19 - Orpheus
02:33:28 - Outro
See you next year!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to One Week, One Year, a podcast where we watch and discuss every year of film history in order, starting in 1895, the dawn of cinema. And this episode is 1950. I'm one of your hosts, Chris Selle. I'm a film projectionist and joining me as always is... I'm Glenn Covell. I'm a filmmaker.
00:00:29
Speaker
Making those films, making that bread. Trying. Casting those pods. There you go. Yeah. What's up, Glenn? How's it going? Not much back in the the the wilderness of unemployment.
00:00:42
Speaker
Walking the the the cold streets of Brooklyn. Yeah, um you know, we're both here in New York. We're ah recording together. Yeah.
Oscar Mishap and Humorous Encounter
00:00:50
Speaker
um I thought that the Oscars were going to be yesterday because it was in my calendar incorrectly. Are they in March? Yes. They're a full month from now. Oh. um But I was like, oh, man, that can be our, like, intro. We can talk about the Oscars. Nope.
00:01:03
Speaker
Yeah. Hasn't happened yet. Yeah. They probably will have happened by the time this out. only that grouch in the trash can down the street. That's an Oscar we can talk about. He was harassing me while i wass on the way in here. It's funny because there are actual trash cans about.
00:01:16
Speaker
so that Sesame Street's not far away. i thought Sesame Street isn't Sesame Street canonically in Philadelphia. No. you kidding me? That's New York, baby. Is it?
00:01:27
Speaker
i think so. I thought it was supposed to be like Pittsburgh Philadelphia. No. smaller USA. No. No? Yeah. Because they didn't film it New York. I think they did. well. think Sesame Workshop is in New York. Well.
00:01:40
Speaker
I guess I'm wrong then. Apologies to all the sesame heads. it's his ownath It's his own city and he doesn't know anything about it. Not the first thing.
Classic Films and Youth Interest
00:01:50
Speaker
At the gallery ah are starting our series of American classics that we're going to be doing for in celebration of America's anniversary. anniversary this year. Oh, how how how exciting. Yeah. So we are playing a bunch of classic ah American cinema, starting with Casablanca on 35 that I played a couple days ago.
00:02:15
Speaker
It's a fun show. has a great audience. Somebody went up to me after the show and he was like, I'm used to like only old people like me coming to these screenings. Do you know why so many young people are here? i was like,
00:02:30
Speaker
i don't know, man. How am I supposed to know that? Young people yearn for Casablanca. Yeah, I mean... They they they yearn for the anti-fascist sentiment of Casablanca. Indeed, indeed. And, like, they... i think they yearn for the classics because, you know, whenever... um you know listeners if you ever find yourself at at my at one of the theaters that i end up working at um i'm always glad to give a tour of the booth and uh there were some kind of stragglers who was a group of six or seven i don't know millennials young people quote unquote and you know uh not anymore i guess but um they were kind of discussing the movie afterward and they were like i wonder what
00:03:12
Speaker
is up with those, like, circles that were in the corner of the screen. and i was ah I was, like, or you know, moving some signs around, like, putting them back in storage. And I was like, well, let me tell you. ah and i was like, I'm the projectionist. and and And I was explaining everything. And they were like, do you think... um that we could see the projectors? And I was like, sure I have an Amtrak to catch, but I will do my best. And and then after I gave them a tour, they were all very fascinated by it. And they were like, do you think you're going to be playing Citizen Kane? i want to see Citizen Kane. Were they all holding holding their hats in front of them like cartoon? ah Please, sir. Please, sir. I'd love to see Citizen Kane.
00:03:56
Speaker
ah I don't know what rosebud means. This is my mental image of what these people were. They were full adults. um But yeah, they they they hunger for the classics. Yeah. And that's fun. I just heard also that we're going to be playing some CinemaScope classic musicals. Cool. Which I'm excited for because we don't actually play that much scope stuff on our screen, which is a scope screen. There you go.
00:04:23
Speaker
Anyway, um that's a lot of stuff. Yeah. But, you know... Speaking of the youth yearning for old stuff... Are you young and do you want to hear about the news of the year 1950?
00:04:38
Speaker
According to our evil internet analytics, you're not young. but um Oh, I haven't looked at that. I think last I checked, it was like not enough data to say. You don't have enough watchers slash listeners for it to give us an accurate idea of who our audience is. Which I'm fine with because then it preserves the mystery.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah. and We try to give ourselves a little bit of context for what is going on in the year ah of the films in that... that In question. with which we are just In which we are discussing. um Whatever. ah Glenn, why don't you take it away? Would that it were so simple. Why don't you take it away with the news of the year?
Key Events of 1950
00:05:19
Speaker
The news the year, 1950. The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China sign a mutual defense treaty. The first Volkswagen microbus hits the streets. The Parliament of South Africa formally segregates the population.
00:05:33
Speaker
North Korea invades South Korea. President Truman orders American troops to give aid. The first Formula One World Championship is held in Italy. The comic strip Peanuts debuts in newspapers.
00:05:45
Speaker
Tenzin Gyatso is enthroned as the 14th Dalai Lama. Nice. Yeah. I mean, not all nice. some of it Not all nice. There was a lot of news I skipped over. it was like massacre, massacre, massacre, massacre. I was like, we don't need all that. Why were the massacres happening? Lots. All of the reasons. Oh. Just all all over. i mean, several due to the Korean War.
00:06:06
Speaker
But yeah, Korean War, not good. Hot take. Yeah. Wow. We just finished a war. dan I know. Five short years ago. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:18
Speaker
The news of the year is... Getting increasingly depressing. yeah Yeah. Getting too real. Getting too sad. Right. Because every year that it creeps up, it gets more recent. And therefore, it feels a little bit closer to home. The the Korean War is the one that Principal Seymour Skinner fought in. Yeah. my My own grandfather fought in the Korean War. Yeah.
Disney's Cinderella: Animation and Story
00:06:39
Speaker
I mean, and World War II. Our first film that we're talking about is ah film that we've talked about five five times before in certain ways. Four or five times before. in In a way. A story we've talked about. A story as old as time. Wait, no, wait. That's a different one. Whatever, man. It's Cinderella. Yeah. it's ah The Disney one.
00:07:03
Speaker
But the other Disney one. The Disney animated one from the year 1950. The Disney feature film, Cinderella. Non-laugh-a-gram, Cinderella. Did we talk about a laugh-a-gram? We did.
00:07:16
Speaker
okay We've covered Georges Méliès' Cinderella No. 1 from 1899. The full title. Georges Méliès' Cinderella No. 2 from, I think, 1911, maybe? Sounds um vaguely right. yeah We've got Lottie Reinecker and Disney's yeah ah dueling Cinderella's adaptations of the same year. One much better than the other. And now the fifth Cinderella, I believe, that we've talked about.
00:07:47
Speaker
The feature film, Cinderella. And I mean, I would say this is generally considered the definitive film version of Cinderella. I suppose so. um There is also the Disney live action film.
00:07:59
Speaker
Kenneth Branagh film. Which is one of the better live action Disney i haven't seen it. I've heard it is one of the better ones. Yeah. yeah Yeah, this one. A classic Disney animated picture. This was not one of my Disney films that I saw as a kid. I was watching it for the first time for this. i i bait i'm I'm like 95% sure I saw it at some point as a kid, but it had been long enough where I was basically watching it.
00:08:25
Speaker
What do you think of this this one? It's kind of weird in in in in some ways. ah my My initial so my initial ah sort of pithy letterbox review of this movie was... give me the pith.
00:08:40
Speaker
I like how this movie is about a bunch of cartoon mice and then Cinderella's story just kind of happens in the background. Yeah. And then i went, I posted that to Letterboxd and then checked to see like, you know, popular reviews or like reviews from people that I follow.
00:08:54
Speaker
And there were multiples that were just like, this movie is like 90% mice. I mean, you know, valid. I think hyperbolic. It is exaggerating. There's a lot of cat and mouse stuff in this movie.
00:09:07
Speaker
You know, you could say that this movie, the star of the movie, is the the mice or whatever mouse's name is. Yeah, it is kind of like... The mice are like the POV of the movie, almost. But, like...
00:09:20
Speaker
I kind of see that as a bad thing because it's sort of wasting my goddamn time, you know? Well, sure. therere Right. it is It somewhat feels like, I guess, that the actual narrative story of Cinderella wasn't quite enough to sustain 70... How long is this? It's short. 78 minutes? yeah I don't think it's even 70. minutes or something like that maybe it is but like it it um it's really short and i was reading about it and how um they were originally going to make it as a silly symphonies and they thought that it was too big to be a silly symphony uh short um but this is also not enough story to fill out the whole movie and it's a pretty short movie it's pretty short movie and right i mean i percentage wise who's to say but like
00:10:09
Speaker
It does kind of feel like about 40% of this movie is wholly unrelated to the character of Cinderella and is just following the the misadventures of the of the mice and cat that live in her house. And, you know, i'm I'm sounding really negative on this movie. I i liked it It was fine. Yeah, was a movie. But, like, i don't... I think also that, like, the the mouse stuff, it's pretty derivative. It feels like Tom and Jerry knockoff stuff, you know? A little bit. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the, a lot of the gags. It's cat and mouse stuff. It's cat and mouse stuff. And it's not nearly as elaborate as most Tom and Jerry. It's not, it feels, it feels not as good, you know, because they're, they're doing Tom and Jerry style gags there with, with yeah these cat and mouse stuff. It's not, it's not just that it's cat and mouse. They're doing like Tom and Jerry style gags with it. And it's also, it falls a little more flat and it's a little less zany than Tom and Jerry. Yeah. Which is funny that like the rest of the movie is not like that at all. Like the actual Cinderella narrative is like not kind of earnest. It's not really ever played for comedy.
00:11:14
Speaker
right There's like musical numbers and things, there are songs in it. It is a musical. Yeah. And tonally it feels very different than the cat and mouse stuff.
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I don't know. They're cute. It's like, you know, more Disney cute animal sidekicks, I guess. Not if it's bad, but you're right. It is sort of like, all right, we've seen this kind of thing before. It's not as bad, but it's also kind of mid, you know? Like, I think there's a lot of other Disney movies that I'd rather watch than this one. Yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
I think this movie is like a pretty, right. It is quite short. It is pleasant to sit through, i would say. And it it looks very good. It has also been, i think this is like one of the more recently restored Disney animated movies. Yeah, actually on the restoration. That's a good point. I got Blu-ray of this and I started watching the Blu-ray and it looked like crap.
00:12:11
Speaker
crap Like it, I, the Blu-ray, the HD version of this is kind of notable for being like DNR'd to hell. um Everything looked kind of plasticky and all the film grain was gone. It looked like it was like the film...
00:12:30
Speaker
like the colors were so chunky, um like with the film grain taken out, that it almost looked like it was ah made in Flash or something like that. um And so I started watching it and i was like, there's something really wrong here. And I switched to um a more recent 4K restoration that kept some of the grain in. And it looked so much better. i'm Yeah, i'm I'm assuming that 4K restoration is what's on Disney+, plus which is how I watched it. Mm-hmm.
00:12:59
Speaker
It's an animated movie, so the film grain is not that present anyway. But, like, there was definite... You could you could see little shot on brush strokes and such. Like, there was, yeah there was ah ah I thought, a good amount of texture. That's good. Yeah, it probably is their new restoration. um Yeah. Usually i mean anything on streaming is usually the most recent restoration, which is not always a good thing. You don't know about that, but yeah. Right. Not not always, but that's, you know...
00:13:26
Speaker
I would say avoid the Blu-ray and go for the 4K if you're going to have it physically or maybe watch it on Disney+. plus It looked like weirdly sterile in the HD version. I mean, that's, I think, one thing about restoring animated movies is like, I mean, I guess with any restoration, it's sort of like, what what are you putting the um emphasis on? Like, is are you trying to get back to what something was intended to look like are you trying to get back to what...
00:13:51
Speaker
You know, the most accurate representation of whatever you're, you know, even accurate is like yeah a loaded term. Don't get me started. Don't get me started on this. All of which is to say the version of it that I watched, I thought looked very ah nice.
00:14:07
Speaker
I thought the colors really popped. I thought the actual animation of it is like very lavish. In parts, yeah. I think that um watching this, I did not really remember how much like...
00:14:19
Speaker
rotoscoping why am I yeah complaining so much how much rotoscoping is in is rotoscoping a bad thing I don't like rotoscoping no like um it's definitely a I mean it works in some context it's it's own thing I think it like works okay in Pinocchio because um it was sort of supposed to be this otherworldly fairy or whatever there's something uncanny about rotoscoping a lot the time and your main character in this is rotoscoped the entire time yeah um ah Like Disney animators used a lot of live action reference footage. think most of the human characters in this are rotoscoped.
00:14:56
Speaker
Well, not the more cartoony ones. Like the king is in rotoscoped. And i like that I like that look. I like the more... That like style of animation is yeah much more expressive. It's what you think of when you think of classic Disney animation. yeah um But I will say the the fairy godmother is not rotoscoped. Or at least she doesn't look obviously rotoscoped. And I think the scene with the fairy godmother, I wish that she was in this movie more. because it It does kind of come out of nowhere. It comes out of nowhere, but i'm not I'm not saying that as a complaint. I think that the fairy godmother is a great part of this movie. That scene has some really cool animation it. What I really love is her um wand and how it's got this like slow trail of sparkles that follows behind it. um A lot of sparkles in this movie. a lot of sparkles. Very Disney magic. But yeah, it's like it's it's on a much longer delay than you would expect. And so she's moving at full speed. But then like these sparkles just hang in the air for like just long enough that it like feels very... very like It's just summoning magic into the air. It's it's a really good touch, I think. And the sparkles also have... you know We're moving into the 1950s. And the sparkles almost have this... like
00:16:12
Speaker
mid-century modern kind of starburst look to Mid-century modern does love a sparkle or a starburst. Right? true. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of fun animation, the bibbidi-bobbidi-boo part. um I also really like the um the carriage and the way the carriage is kind of like... Or like the pumpkin is turning into the carriage and that transformation is really good. It's almost ah got like a bit of a fleshy Akira... thing going on i don't think it's meant to be scary but it's uh it's it's cool smooth animation of like tendrils turning into wheels yes and all that yeah yeah yeah and like the you know the animals being turned into other animals yeah um it is crazy that animorphs it's like we need horses to draw this carriage we have a horse but we turn that horse into a person turn the mice into horses that's just the yeah you gotta that's like the levels right yeah
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, like that, ah that was probably my biggest takeaway. It was just like, this this is very nicely animated. Yeah. And the musical sequences too. The part where she's like scrubbing and like you see the bubbles and the cool kind of like yeah reflections and everything like that. One of the things that, you know, my partner is not really a big fan of musicals. And was something I was mentioning, she was like enjoying the musical animations in this. And yeah.
00:17:37
Speaker
Something I was sort of mentioning that she thought was like an interesting way of kind of looking at musicals is that the idea of somebody breaking into song breaks reality enough that you can use it as an excuse to do much more daring reality bending visual stuff. yeah And that's like something that musicals can get away with, having these like kind of non-literal sequences in them that I think is... you know' real it's something like Something that I wish more non-musical movies would do. Absolutely. absolutely yeah i know it's it's It's Cinderella, man. like Cinderella. it's cno Cinderella Man is a different movie. Yeah, it's like the the castle in this movie I think is
00:18:19
Speaker
Is it kind of the model for the Disney castle? I think that there's like different Disney castles and different Disney parks. And like there's one that's modeled after this one. There's another that's modeled after Sleeping Beauty or something like that. There are specific castles, I believe. I've got get a Disney adult on here. I don't know. yeah Yeah. i Yeah. wanted With the new Cinderella, the 2015 one, I remember...
00:18:44
Speaker
Something that really stuck with me, we're talking about the the horse turning into a man. And then, like, my favorite, I think one of my favorite moments from that movie, it's like a little joke when that happens. And the guy, the guy, the horse turns into a guy, he jumped, the he lands in the, in the seat, the driver's seat of the carriage, and he's just like, I can't drive, I'm a horse. Yeah. I'm like, that's good. I like that. Who plays the horse? I don't know. Some guy. i don't know. All right. um It's not like Steve Coogan or somebody. Not that I know of. I guess one other thing, a thought that I had while watching this is that I was seeing a lot of crossover with a much later Disney animated movie, Aladdin.
00:19:24
Speaker
um I think the design of the king is's very similar to the design of the sultan. Yeah, he's like a Colonel Blimp version of the sultan. Sure, yeah. And even the kind of like general premise and kind of like the sort of central romance is kind of gender swapped from this movie where there's like...
00:19:42
Speaker
the the wealthy all right yeah child of the ruler who's sort of like, oh, my, you know, I'm trapped in this, this gilded cage. Yeah. Except that this like Prince Valium ass guy is like so bland. He's like a non-character. I don't think he has any dialogue.
00:19:59
Speaker
He does have the tiniest amount of dialogue. Yeah. It is like, he's, he's almost an offscreen character. He's no princess Jasmine. I'll tell you that. That's for damn sure. And then, yeah, that's sort of like plucky,
00:20:12
Speaker
um poverty stricken hero um who is aladdin slash cinderella who gets a a magical makeover true you know so like aladdin is like almost a remake of cinderella in in some ways he's a bit of a cinderella man yeah there go and there's and there's ah a sort of you know a vizier kind of character-esque character in this but was Jafar is very sinister this guy is much more bumbling and i mean I guess we should also say that like we've covered Aladdin a couple times before also yeah and true that I'm not sure which is the older story but they come from different places right yeah yeah yeah evokes the same thing but is this being a Disney production yeah I I wonder how much they were sort of specifically looking at this in their sort of like character design and like
00:21:01
Speaker
Sure. Thinking about, oh, we got we got got talking animals. Maybe it's a monkey this time. I mean, you know, even though we kind of ignored much of the recent Disney films in their kind of World War II and post-World War II flop era, you know, this is considered to be the kind of golden age of Disney with the the nine old men, the like the great animators and who are doing their best work ever yeah in these films. And so ah you work still credit on this movie Really?
00:21:32
Speaker
think so. I think I saw his name in there somewhere. What? Why? He doesn't have he didn't have anything to do with Disney for years. Maybe I'm wrong. But, you know, I'm sure modern day Disney is kind of referencing back to this stuff all the time. Oh, yeah. one One other small thing that I wanted to mention is that, like, Cinderella has, like, during her makeover, she has, like, a weirdly nineteen fifty s style haircut.
00:21:56
Speaker
Um, like it it feels like you can see the era that this was made in, even though it's kind of trying to be this like timeless old timey thing. Yeah. Like she sort of looked like a fashioned up lady. It takes place in Nutcracker times, but, uh, yeah, the way that she is styled does feel distinctly kind of early fifties. I also didn't know that the song So This Is Love is from that. like the du it it is and is in love it It feels like it um has like a bigger presence than this movie itself in a way. so at least slightly. I don't know. Two things I thought of in regards to the stepmom character, particularly her character design. One, her hair looks like... ah
00:22:40
Speaker
Bram Stoker's Dracula hair. The sort of two humps. To the degree where I was like, is Francis Ford Coppola, like, did Francis Ford Coppola base that Dracula look on the stepmother from this movie? I could believe it, yeah. um And then, and and the other character I was reminded of was one of the main characters from the next movie on our list, ah Sunset Boulevard.
00:23:05
Speaker
Sunset Boulevard. Good old Norma Desmond.
Overview of Sunset Boulevard
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, I guess, you know, we were supposed to be doing little plot summaries, right? Everyone knows Cinderella. We don't need to do Cinderella. yeah But ah Sunset Boulevard is a film about a kind of, it's a down on his luck.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah. Like screenwriter who kind of. bumbles into this kind of decrepit mansion of this ah person he finds out is a someone who used to be a giant star in the in the silent film era and has kind of receded into her rich solitary life and has a bit of like a whole weird thing going on that we can talk about later But eventually he just kind of becomes closer and closer ingrained into her life. And ah she kind of gets him under her thumb in a way. And it's about him sort of helping her out with her script that is supposed to be her comeback to the screen. And also her kind of growing control over him. Ending as with a framing ending of wrapping back to the beginning of him dead in a pool.
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, what a way to open a movie is like the the narrator who is the screenwriter is like, a story begins with a murder. And it's like, we see the police showing up. And then it's like, that's me. I'm the dead guy. You're probably wondering how I got here. Basically, like it doesn't say that line, but that's sort of how it is. But then it's yeah, this was before record scratches. So it might have been 100% not before records. right It's very much the era of records. Yeah. yeah.
00:24:47
Speaker
I don't know. What would what be the equivalent? Maybe not the the era of record scratches because they weren't being used in songs. But yeah records were getting scratched. Yeah. Accidentally. will not buy this record in scratch.
00:25:00
Speaker
ah Yeah, I love the opening, the way this movie opens. um Also, just like, there's that incredible shot of, like, from inside the pool, looking up at his floating corpse as, like, the police are photographing it. Yeah. ah Billy Wilder, by the way. a Director who um is responsible for...
00:25:21
Speaker
the that cool shot i guess cinematographer as well but you know billy wilder good at his job yeah what what what to say about this movie i mean i feel like there's a lot to say about this movie yeah but definite yeah it's like oh where to start yeah i this was i was seeing a lot of these movies for the first time i'd never ah you'd seen almost all of them before i've seen a lot of them for this year yeah this is definitely one of those big classics uh I mean, yeah, there's so much going on. i don't even know where to start with this. Well, I mean, I guess one of the big, a big part of this movie is the casting of um Gloria Swanson. Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond, because Gloria Swanson was an actual star during the silent era.
00:26:07
Speaker
And is now playing a sort of very dark, twisted version of herself. It's, yeah. um Of this, like, faded, bitter, silent movie star who is, like, crazy wealthy.
00:26:21
Speaker
Like, absurdly wealthy in a way that, like... Kind of calling back to the sort of excesses of Hollywood. yeah And, like, she's living in, like, the shell of those excesses. But it's, like, the... that This movie feels so kind of built around that casting.
00:26:36
Speaker
yeah this This character is certainly not the actual actress playing her, but is like... The fact that they cast an actual silent film star is...
00:26:50
Speaker
Like, the whole reason why this movie works. And, yeah, it is stunningly meta, right? Like, so much of this movie, when you're watching it, you are being aware of the fact that, like, this is a real silent star. A lot of this movie is about, like, the kind of psychological position of somebody... who hat was a star, then stopped being one for a while, but, like, is still kind of remembering that time, right? I mean, honestly, like, it's, um... For Glorious, wanting to take that role is pretty...
00:27:23
Speaker
brave you know Yeah. Yeah. it's not i mean it's like a in in ways it's not flattering but it is also referencing back to a lot of like the real struggles that a person like that might experience especially a woman like that you know yeah um But along the meta angle, like, we also have Cecil B. DeMille in this movie playing himself. Like, literally playing himself. Yeah, which is another really... Like, there's so much... Like, the world... The fake world of this movie is so closely tied in with the real world yeah of reality. You could just kind of think of Norma Desmond as a silent star that we just never heard of. And it could be real, you know?
00:28:06
Speaker
Because we have... ah Buster Keaton cameo in this. Jump scare Buster Keaton is how I felt when I I felt i feel like I read before i read that he was in this before I saw it and then when I saw him i was like whoa. it is It is kind of treated a little bit as like a surprise. Yeah. It's like hey check it out Buster Keaton.
00:28:27
Speaker
I'm surprised that a guy you know who made movies that light would want to be in a movie this dark. you know i ah get the sense Poster Keaton had a bit of a a dark streak. He had a he is is some dark jokes in his movies. Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
And then, of course, Eric von Stroheim playing butler, guess. Butler, yeah. Manservant. But he also is playing someone who used to be a director, which he also used to be. Yeah. And who directed movies with...
00:28:57
Speaker
Gloria Swanson. we see a clip from a film that Norma Desmond, quote unquote, yeah was in A silent film ah that he that that her butler directed. and it was a film that Eric von Stroheim directed yeah ah Gloria Swanson in. It is so wrapped up yeah in reality in really interesting ways. And like, you don't see... We haven't seen a lot of stuff like be this...
00:29:24
Speaker
you know, postmodern, this meta, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's also, I thought I was kind of struck watching it. I think this this comes from like, you know, hindsight looking back on history, but like, you know, we don't necessarily think of like the twenties and the fifties being as, as much like they're being that much. It's like all olden times.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yeah. Whereas like this movie really puts into perspective, like the twenties were a while ago. ago Yeah. and like Which thankfully, you know, doing this, we can kind of feel the length. Right, yeah, you can feel the actual length of time a bit better. But that I did think that was interesting how it is like, this movie set when it came out in 1950.
00:30:05
Speaker
And it is like, oh yeah, silent movies. That's like so long ago. Yeah. I mean, it's it's still, but it's still recent enough in 1950 that it's in living memory. Like, there are still silent movie stars that are alive and are not. Laura Swanson is, like, what, 50-something in this? She's not even that old. Right.
00:30:22
Speaker
I mean, also, like, Lord the Rings came out the the that that long ago relative to now. You know, it's not like is that far away. No, yeah. But it it was, I think, watching it for this show, it made me kind of think of that.
00:30:36
Speaker
This movie's, I guess, sort of relationship with... 1920s like silent movies looking back on it well singing the rain's coming up in a couple of years and it's doing the same sort of thing too um so it's the 30 year cycle yeah even though the character of norman desmond is pretty villainous um i think this movie has a lot of uh sympathy for the silent era just kind of in general and also yeah because like norman desmond has so much diless She's always she's often complaining about like movies tonight movies today are shit like back in back in the silent days we made real movies um Like she has the line that I love which is like we didn't need words We had faces and then she makes a face and it's like yeah, like it's not wrong and Like there is something From actually from watching all the silent movies that we did and now watching 50s movies. I'm like, yeah, there is something missing
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's a different art form for sure. I think that um ah Singing in the Rain is taking a more kind of comedic approach to the kinds of people who couldn't make the transition to sound. And this is taking a bit more of a tragic approach yeah to it. Also, yeah, just like what a what a performance Gloria Swanson gives. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the face that she makes, right? and She does a lot of she's going big.
00:31:55
Speaker
I think that's so and interesting because like... Because the character is like, is performing she and is a big performer. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, blending life and performance, yeah certainly. But also just like, she was a silent star. What makes a silent star good is their ability to emote in a big way. Their expressiveness. Yeah. Like, like without being able to use...
00:32:19
Speaker
words we didn't have words we had faces and so like her acting is really big and really dramatic in this and she sticks out like a sore thumb amongst everybody else in this movie people are like like she's acting really weird but she's like the kind of person that would make a good silent movie actor also the kind of person who is this like slightly kind of gone to seed performer who's you know stuck in her glory days glory days, yeah. And it is ah is... The character is performing in most scenes, right? Like, she is being very, quote, dramatic. She is a celebrity.
00:32:59
Speaker
She is an actor. yeah And she it kind of is acting with this... yeah um Acting with this awareness of the performance that she has to do to you know, continue on, basically. A lot of this movie concerns, like, these illusions that she has about the way that the world is, right? About, like, Cecil B. DeMille kind of having to, like, let her down easy because, like, she thinks that, like, oh, I'm so cool and powerful, ah you know, that, of course, everyone's gonna love my comeback. And then you find out that, like, um that her butler is the one, like, writing all of her fake fan letters, you know, that nobody cares anymore. Yeah.
00:33:41
Speaker
She's, like, being propped up by all this fakeness around her. ah Her mansion looks like it should have been lively, but, like, the pool, like, has nothing in it, you know? It's, like, everything's falling apart and decaying. And it's, like, you know, reflecting what's going on in her. yeah But, again, like, there's a lot of sympathy that you have because, yeah I mean, there is...
Norma Desmond's Tragic Character
00:34:07
Speaker
a lot of overlap between like thematically between this movie and all about Eve, which we're going to talk about next. But like that, the biggest part of that thematic overlap is like how women are treated as they get older in specifically like showbiz. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this movie is really like, you see how broken and sad she is. There are a couple points in this movie where she tries to kill herself, you know? yeah And it's, and it's genuinely sad. Yeah.
00:34:35
Speaker
She's not like an out and out villain. No. Like she's a person who manipulates and abuses other people, but she does it be like you can see because out of like how hurt she is. Yeah. She is broken. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
The character exists in such a way in this movie where Gloria Swanson can give a like very heightened, expressive, silent movie-esque performance in a sound movie and it doesn't feel out of place.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, although the people laughing in the screening that we were going to, I was like, I get that she's big. I get that she's going big. But, like, it's not fully funny, you know? it It gets close. Like, there are... I think it goes up to the line, but it doesn't necessarily cross it. I think it's a campiness that you can appreciate, but not, like, think that it's not... Like, not take it seriously. Yeah, because I feel even the the main character is sort of...
00:35:31
Speaker
He's not laughing at her, but there is you can see his sort of like amusement of like, oh boy, this this crazy lady. Yeah. There's like a lot of you know modern psychological language that you could use to apply to her. um I was kind of summing this movie up to people I was telling about it. It's just like the experience of having a BPD sugar mama, you know? ah Not inaccurate. Yeah.
00:35:58
Speaker
And yeah, like, and I think that's like another angle of this, right, that we can kind of go into is the sugar mama part of it, where like... she is exerting control. She finds somebody, she cycles through husbands. Um, and she, she finds somebody who she wants to make her next one. And she recognizes that she has this like economic power over him. And, you know, he kind of pretty quickly sort of hates his existence, living in her house, having to like do everything exactly the way that she wants. Um, But like she's providing for him. She's buying him all of these things he doesn't even want. yeah And he's, he's broke. It's like his car is getting repossessed.
00:36:42
Speaker
Like the reason, the only reason why they meet in the first place, because he pulls into her driveway to get away from the like repo men who are trying to take his car. And initially he's like, this crazy lady, like I'm, is really like pay me money to rewrite her terrible script.
00:36:59
Speaker
Sure. He sort of thinks that he's taking advantage of her in in in the beginning. And then the sort of power dynamic starts to shift where it is like he starts to be realize how much he is sort of like under her thrall sort of.
00:37:13
Speaker
And he gets stuck because... she gets so emotionally involved with him before he even realizes how much she does that like when he tries to leave, when he goes like, this is too much for me, i don't need to do this anymore. She attempts suicide. Um, and like that compels him to come back again. Uh, it's, it's very, you know, it's not something that she's doing on purpose, but it's like manipulative, you know? I would argue that she might be doing it on purpose.
00:37:43
Speaker
I mean, i think she knows what she's doing, but I think that she just seems like a pretty, like, unstable and impulsive person. Sure. Who, like, you know, she probably did want to kill herself, you know? Mm-hmm. But, like, she also knew that if she tried... wasn't entirely manipulating yeah manipulation. Yeah. She also knew that if she tried, then she might be able to reel him back in, you know? Yeah.
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah, maybe not necessarily the first time that she's done that to someone. I think, yeah, pretty much says that it's not the first time. Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah, I think Eric von Stroheim says that at some point. Yeah. right Yeah, I mean, I think this this movie also is, like, simultaneously kind of romantic about, like, the notion of Hollywood and also, like, very... don't know if cynical is really the right word, but it is, like...
00:38:34
Speaker
This very much a, like, Hollywood will fuck you up. It'll chew you up and spit you out. Yeah. Kind of thing. Yeah. While still also retaining that, like, ah, old, like, it's funny to watch a movie from 1950 that's like, ah, old Hollywood. Yeah.
00:38:48
Speaker
Don't you miss those times in the Damien Chazelle film Babylon? Yeah. because i think isn't the, like, not post-credits, but the sort of, like, epilogue scene in Babylon set around 1950? Or no, I guess that's set in 50-whatever when Singing in the Rain comes out.
00:39:04
Speaker
I like how the movie is simultaneously being like, movies are great, we love working in the in the picture biz, and also being like, this sucks. Yeah. Because, like, the, the what's the main character's name?
00:39:16
Speaker
Right, it's like, he's trying to get work. It's Joe Gills. Trying to get work as a rewriter, and it's like, no one's, you know, no one's biting. He can't he can't get steady work.
Hollywood's Dreams vs. Reality
00:39:27
Speaker
Joe Gillis. Joe Gillis. Yeah. um He's not a fish. It's like, oh, can't get steady work in the film biz? Don't know what that feels like.
00:39:35
Speaker
Ooh. Ooh. Now we need a sad movie about a projectionist. Both of the, it exists... in sort of both camps simultaneously of like sort of, I mean, kind of in a similar way, I guess, to Babylon in that it is a lot of Hollywood stories. Right. Well, I think that's, that's such a, that's just kind of a universal kind of like artists perspective on Hollywood is sort of like when it's great, damn, what a, like what a place, what like, what a community, that High, high, slow lows. Yeah. But like, dang, the what like corruption and the sort of like corporate, like money grabbing,
00:40:15
Speaker
like controlling business side of it is like has always kind of been soul crushing and this this movie also like highlights that there are some people who really thrive in this system or at least got lucky and thrive like cecil b de mill i think he's yeah like such an interesting parallel character to uh norma desmond because He is someone who successfully went from the silent era to the sound to to now. And he's like, everyone thinks he's a big deal. Everyone loves him. And like he has some sympathy for her. He used to make movies with her, right? But like he was somebody who had to leave the old era and everybody else with him behind. And he's just a slicked up Hollywood guy now, in a way. you know It's also like not a super sympathetic...
00:41:05
Speaker
Look at him. Yeah. um Right, because he's... He's the one... i guess Buster Keaton... He's never named, but it's like... It's a kind of assumed that he's playing himself. Whereas Cecil B. DeMille is just... He's playing exactly himself.
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily say that it's like... A self-deprecating performance, but it is... It's complex, but it's like... It's not like lionizing, you know? I mean, it it is...
00:41:32
Speaker
like, maybe this is exactly what kind of needed to exist in the in a person to be able to, you know, continue to be in Hollywood, right? To thrive in Hollywood, you have to be a certain Hollywood type. and somebody who flames out and, you know, is a, like a diva, you know, or like, um like in the kind of operatic sense, yeah like...
00:41:58
Speaker
is someone who maybe has a big moment and then falls again. But to be able to like persist in Hollywood, you need to be Cecil B. DeMille, whatever that implies, yeah I guess.
00:42:09
Speaker
The scene where she goes to the Paramount lot and visits DeMille on set. And it's like all people who work on the back lot are like, oh, Norman Desmond's here. Great. Like. Yeah. Love that gal.
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah. So it is like she's remembered well. She seemingly has like a good reputation with the crew, which is a good sign. But she doesn't want to be.
00:42:30
Speaker
She doesn't want to be a memory. Right. right But like she wants like still, no one is willing to like. make her terrible movie that she wants to make as a comeback. She, I mean, she refuses to go gracefully, I guess. Right. Right. Cause it is also, she's like, I have written this script by myself.
00:42:49
Speaker
That is like the greatest thing ever written. And it's going be my big comeback. And like every single time another character looks at it, they're like, wo yikes. Like, this is a bad, um but yeah, it is like, no one is really willing to just like say that to her face.
00:43:06
Speaker
Right. Which is also kind of like where her sort of like monstrousness comes from, I think, is that it's like no one is willing to sort of like tell her this the truth. Like she is kind of being her own like perception of herself is somewhat being mirrored back by everyone around her, especially.
00:43:24
Speaker
The Von Storheim character. Yeah, who kind of, like, he's her ex-husband. Yeah. And, like, he exists. His life has become... Keeping her in a fantasy. Exactly, yeah. he Like, everything that he does is to keep her in her fantasy for whatever reason, I guess, you know? Like, like he still loves her and he wants to...
00:43:47
Speaker
you know, he doesn't have the heart. Either he doesn't have the heart to let her face reality. He's seen what happens when she faces reality. Or, like, he believes in her in a way that, like, other people don't, I guess. Yeah. um And is willing to kind of lie in order to, like, outwardly just manufacture things to to help her ego stay alive, basically. Even even as she's being arrested for murder. Yeah.
00:44:16
Speaker
He's like, no, I'm going to direct the newsreel cameras and like make it seem like a movie set. Yeah. And like then she just has like a full break with reality. Right. That's like I think post murdering of ah what's his Gillis. Yeah. um Right. it's You get the sense like her brain is toast. Like that like she she is completely has like a a psychotic break where she is like fully living in in the delusion of like I am a movie star.
00:44:45
Speaker
Everyone loves me. i have a star! every Everywhere I go is a film set. Yeah. It's a wild ending. Yeah. like I mean, you know, super famous movie ending. famous ending Yeah. that was That was the thing where I'm like, I was a little bit... Seeing it with an audience, I was like, okay, like, this is funny, but it's also sad, and it's also kind of horrifying. Yeah. Like, and I feel like...
00:45:09
Speaker
there were some people in the audience who were just were appreciating it, appreciating it as camp, you know? I mean, there, yeah, I think this movie has, i don't know if I like know enough about the concept of camp to like really speak to this movie's relationship with it.
00:45:25
Speaker
Because i think there's a lot to say there, probably. Yeah, i I do think of this movie mostly, even though it is very funny, it is, i would certainly ah lump it in as a noir movie. I think it usually is considered as such.
00:45:41
Speaker
And yeah, it has like horror vibes at times, for sure. Of like the the sort of like, yeah, the like decaying mansion the sort of yeah and she is a bit of a vampire right yeah she's like very dracula-esque throughout the whole thing which i i don't think is like unintentional she sucks the blood out of young men and then moves on to the next one all true yeah Yeah, I mean. But yeah, like that that that last moment, obviously we're talking about like, I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille. As he's giving, you know, the crazy eyes. The big white eye. Crazy eyes and right at the camera, right? Like that's another. Again, an excuse for the movie to be like, yeah, you're performing this last line direct to the camera.
00:46:22
Speaker
And it's, but it's like, because we've set up, there are cameras filming her. It works. Yeah. Yeah. We've set up. So in a way they are, it's maybe hopping in diegetically into one of those cameras. Right. But also like there's so much meta stuff in this movie with Cecil B. DeMille playing himself and all that. Like it it, it just kind of slots right in with her like looking right at the camera. Right. And like what happens when someone's looking at the camera? I mean, there's a bit of um like, we're talking to you audience, you know? Breaking the fourth wall a bit. Yeah, which, like, you know, there's one aspect of her looking right at the camera that is just implying how crazy she is. Maybe she's even so crazy that she's broken the fourth wall, right you know? But also, like, maybe there's, like, a slight implication. She's seeing the non-diegetic camera because she's so... Right. She's entered the the yeah a new plane. Exactly.
00:47:14
Speaker
um But, like, maybe there's a bit of an implication to the audience of, like... You, the consumer, you you've sucked the blood of all of these people and made them, don't know. You did this. You made me this way. Yeah, I mean, maybe. i don't know if it's doing it that hard, but I feel like there's i think that's in there there's like a bit of an angle of it of like, you know, so much of this movie is about like celebrity.
00:47:37
Speaker
Yeah, very much so. About like the idea of celebrity. Yeah. And the movie ends with her mind-breaking and addressing the audience of people who are the people who make someone a celebrity. I regardless of how this movie sort of feels about Hollywood, I think it is very critical of the idea of celebrity.
00:47:56
Speaker
I think it is very like celebrity as like a thing is bad. and you You could consider the movie to say that like celebrity is the thing that broke her. Yes. Yeah.
00:48:08
Speaker
What a good movie. Yeah. there's There's also, like, there is definitely a... I think this movie, one of the reasons why it's so good is because it has so much layers and it's got so much going on thematically and it's also just, like, very well written.
00:48:22
Speaker
Great casting performances, yada, yada, yada. I think something I haven't really touched on is, like, the... I think this movie is also feels like it is about a sort of, like, generational shift. There was, like, very much... There was kind of the idea of like, old Hollywood and there's this, like, the youth...
00:48:38
Speaker
Right. And like Joe Gillis and the sort of um he's like going he's like going to like Hollywood parties where everyone's young and it has much more of a kind of like it's the 50s young people.
00:48:49
Speaker
well we're We're in showbiz too. Our bridge tournaments. Yeah. ah Well, no, yeah no one's playing bridge anymore. It's the 50s. They're they're they're drinking malt drinking malts. Yeah. The diner. Exactly. But like, yeah, there's there's a there's some of that in there, too, which I think is. um Again, I don't know necessarily how much I had to say about that or like what the movie's trying to say about it necessarily, but it's like, ah yeah, i don't know. Maybe I don't have a ah thesis there. Well, I mean, you know,
00:49:19
Speaker
I think there's the difference in generational outlooks that is kind of being reflected also in the difference between sound and silent film. um And like the way of being of those different people. Age is definitely a thing that that this has on its mind in a very big way. And I think also of like...
00:49:39
Speaker
through much of the second half of the movie, she's under a false assumption that Cecil B. DeMille read her script, likes it, and wants to make her movie. And so she's, like, going through this, like, regimen of, like, it you...
00:49:56
Speaker
making herself young, you know, with, like, plastic surgery and stuff. Yeah. Which is a whole other kind of can of worms that this movie opens. And this movie has, like, so much sympathy for, like, you know, women who... Not just Hollywood will chew you up and spit you out as a generic thing, but, like, Hollywood does not give a shit about women once they're over, like, a certain age. Right. And, like...
00:50:24
Speaker
The only way that you can matter is to be young. And her mind is broken enough that she's just like, I must become young. Right, right. like that That's her reaction to it. Yeah. You get the sense if Norma Desmond was not as delusional, she probably could still have a thriving career in the pictures if she would just if her ego would get in the way.
All About Eve: Aging and Ambition
00:50:46
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, I think that sort of, unless you have anything else on this, sort transitions us into About Eve. Yeah. Which is another movie. Weirdly has a lot of crossover with this A lot of crossover. Yeah. Both of these movies, I think, are primarily about what showbiz does to women who get older. Yes. Where All About Eve is almost like...
00:51:10
Speaker
a bit more of a, you know, perverse version of that because she's just like 40 the movie. Right. That's what I mean. Like Laura Swanson, think was in her fifties when this movie came out. Mm-hmm.
00:51:22
Speaker
Which right now you're like, all right, fine. Like, that's not that old. I don't think of it that But still problem in Hollywood, right? Right, no, for sure. That's the thing is it's like these movies were made, what, 75 years ago? Yeah. Also, I mean, yeah, people aged quicker.
00:51:37
Speaker
From going to the mines and all that. Yeah, exactly. but everyone smoked, you know? it was just like... But it's not just that. it's like It's like, you know, there's all these charts that you can look at right now of, like, leading men with their romantic interests. The romantic, you know, the the people who are supposed to play their love interest. yeah And, like, the kind of age gap...
00:51:58
Speaker
And like how the the men in Hollywood are allowed to keep getting older and the women just kind of top out yeah at 40, basically. And like you have like 75 year olds with like a 38 year old love interest or whatever. Yeah. It's like these movies are speaking to something that still exists. It's not like the problem ever really got fixed. Never did. yeah Still. I mean, it's probably.
00:52:24
Speaker
This just in. Sexism still exists. Marginally, maybe less. a problem than it was in 1950. Because, yeah, I certainly don't think of someone who's in their 50s as, like, ancient. But, like, I'm sure a lot of casting directors do. Sure. i mean, you know, I think Meryl Streep is somebody who ah is almost kind of notable for being someone yeah who was able to eight allowed to age yeah like a woman who was allowed to age in hollywood you know i think all about eve is a little less was that what was her name margo margo channing i think is i mean certainly much less monstrous yeah i think these are two different perspectives on yeah like i think sons boulevard is like taking that idea and like running really far in one direction with it whereas this is i think all about eve is a much more sort of like
00:53:11
Speaker
nuanced, ah sort of grounded approach to that same concept. Sunset Boulevard is heightened melodrama a la silent films. All yeah About Eve is a yeah kind of more grounded sort of thing um with more sort of Yeah, more sort of human and less insane and grandiose sort stuff going on. Yeah, like Margot Channing is... She acknowledges that she is aging, and she is aging out of the kind of roles that she is kind of known for playing on stage.
00:53:44
Speaker
But she still... Working. She's still in play. She's still a celebrated actor who's, like, selling out show headlining. I mean, yeah. All about Eve um and, like, you know, Margot Channing's role, like, situation in it is, like, almost...
00:54:02
Speaker
ah a woman who is at they almost have like she's she's at a crossroads yes that like it's it's her at the crossroads where she can kind of become go in the direction of ah Of Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. Or she can choose a different way. Right. Norman Desmond has already gone through the crossroads and stuck from me to, no, I will remain young forever. Yeah. Because I am at my highland a vampire. Whereas, yeah, Margot is sort of at that crossroads in this movie. And by the end of it decides, I'm just not going to play the same characters anymore.
00:54:41
Speaker
I'm going to... But she struggles with it. but Of course. She struggles with it because it's... Yeah, they're like... Because... ah Opposing... Like, the characters take, like, opposing...
00:54:52
Speaker
Paths. Yeah. She struggles with it. I mean, I mean i think this is it's interesting putting her at crossroads because she's having to directly, during the movie, grapple with the types of things that we're kind of picking up from subtext in Sunset Boulevard. She's having to confront...
00:55:12
Speaker
Not just like her as an individual aging, but like her relationship as a woman to the industry that she's in while aging. Yeah. Which is a whole other can of worms.
00:55:28
Speaker
And yeah, that's Betty Davis. Another kind of... You know, Betty Davis I think was 43 when she played this. But like, it's another role that's like... You know, it's like a... It's another thing that almost like you are an actor who is well known and is getting older. And like, if you're playing an actor... It's going to be a self-referential to some degree. There's going to be some level of... I'm just a dude playing another dude. Yeah, yeah. It's going to reach into your soul little bit. All About Eve doesn't feel as directly metatextual as Sons of Boulevard is. No, definitely not. Especially because All About Eve is about Broadway and not about Hollywood. This isn't a play about...
00:56:18
Speaker
acting it's a movie although it used to be a play yeah i which i think kind of it isn't necessarily a show but it's like it became a play yeah like i think i think all about eve is a very good movie it is it feels very writerly to me in that it is like it is very well written but it is like all of the emphasis of this story is on like writing and performance and Yeah. um Which is not to say the movie is like badly directed or doesn't look good or anything, but it's like compared to a lot of the other movies that we watched for this year, it it feels the most stage adjacent.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. Which also maybe, I mean, it's about Broadway, so it makes sense. So right, All About Eve opens with this like big... you know, fancy ah awards ceremony for a young actress named Eve, who's getting this like very prestigious acting award.
00:57:07
Speaker
And then we flashback indeterminate amount of time to Eve being someone who's like waiting outside the the stage door, of a theater who's just like, who me?
00:57:18
Speaker
I just want to see, you know, see see the, see the actors. And, and, uh, Karen, who's married to the playwright, who's written this, you know, big Broadway smash is like, you're here literally every night come inside.
00:57:34
Speaker
Like no one else is hanging out here after every single show. Yeah. And she's like, well, I don't want to I don't want to be in position. don't want to bother anybody. She's like, come on, just like come backstage. And she, like, meets everyone. What a mistake. Yeah, he meets everyone is, like, you know, very, like, sheepish. And they're all like, no, like, tell us your story. And she gives this very heartbreaking story of having been married, but her husband was a pilot in World War II and so died.
00:58:01
Speaker
And she was kind of left with nothing and then just started seeing... margot on the stage and like became so kind of enamored with her the power of her performance that she's just following this show from from san francisco to new york and has gone to every single performance and it's just like the biggest fan and they're all like cool like you want to hang out And at first, like, ah Margot sort of has, like a um like, her guard up a little bit. She's just like, oh, fan, like I don't want to talk to that person, you know? But it is, like, after they're they're all disarmed after she hears this story, everyone is like, oh man. Not only that think they they feel bad for her, but they're like, oh, she's like she's a genuine person.
00:58:40
Speaker
She's not just, like... Little do they know. Yeah. Right. um And so then, like, pretty quickly, Margot sort of, like, lets Eve into her life just as her sort of, like, assistant.
00:58:53
Speaker
She's, helping out around the house, you know. um and just slowly but surely... Eve starts to just be more and more central to Margot's life up until slightly sneakily becoming her understudy on the show. With some with some ah sympathetic assistance from Karen. Yeah.
00:59:14
Speaker
It's like all this stuff where it's like she's not directly asking for any of this, but she's it's sort of suspicious how much she's sort of drawing attention to herself. while All the while being like, oh, me, they're like no one look at me. Like, I'm nothing. Yeah. Until she sort of supplants Margot as the lead of the show, because she's, like, much younger. She's, like, very traditionally pretty looking.
00:59:39
Speaker
And everyone's like, oh, man, ah as an actor, she's she's incredible. It's so raw, such a good performance. And... As this is happening, Margo more and more is sort of like, this this gal is no good.
00:59:50
Speaker
yeah And then by like the back half of the movie is like full on like Eve is actively like trying to seduce Margo's husband. She is like manipulating everyone around her.
01:00:03
Speaker
and then very closely in the movie, just it is revealed that her entire sob story is made up. She never even lived in San Francisco. She was never married. Her name isn't Eve.
01:00:14
Speaker
It's Gertrude. Gasp. And by doing all this manipulating somewhat kind of like pushed away all the people that she had made friends with along the way, except for this sort of very snooty theater critic that she is sort of... Who's also kind of similarly cutthroat. Also similarly cutthroat. And then he kind of gives her an ultimatum like, you have to stay with me.
01:00:37
Speaker
i own you because... If you try to leave me, I'll tell everyone that you're a con artist, basically. And then, right, the the end of the movie is Eve having, you know, sort of gained everything she wanted, but at what cost?
01:00:53
Speaker
Comes back to her apartment and there's this even younger woman in there who's like, oh, me? I just i just came in here because the door was open. Like, I'm i'm your biggest fan. Yeah. and's I'm the head of the fan club in my high school. Right. And it's like, ah, the cycle begins anew. Yeah. um But also, right, like, Margot, meanwhile, she's been, like, fighting with Eve for most, like, most of the movie of, like, she's taken my roles. She's trying to take my life.
01:01:21
Speaker
in a very sort of, like, Tom Ripley-esque way. She's, like, trying to kind of become Margot. Yeah. She starts puttingle she starts putting on her clothes. Yeah. She starts, like, wearing a wig that's more like her because of the plague. And then, like, Margot was like, fuck this. I'm rich. I have a great marriage.
01:01:38
Speaker
Why don't I just kind of... Like, just live my life. she's ah She is at that crossroads, and she chooses to age gracefully. Yeah. Right? there's There's a moment in the movie where Karen recognizes the con artist that Eve is, and kind of... There's the bit where Eve is trying to get Karen to convince her husband, the playwright...
01:02:06
Speaker
To give her the role. And her mask kind of starts to slip. And Karen is like, oh, you're a psycho. Yeah. And she puts Karen in this weird situation. And there's like this threat similar to the one that gets put on Eve by the critic. Of like, I'm going to tell Margot that you helped me supplant her. If you don't suggest to your husband that I should be in the play. And there's this whole thing of it's just like...
01:02:35
Speaker
We know Margo wants the part and she doesn't want to give it to Eve. But then Margo kind of just is suddenly like, you know what? Let Eve take it. out don't care anymore, you know? And it's just like, woo, got out of that situation, you know? The situation that Margot is in through this movie is like an interesting foil to Sunset Boulevard. It's definitely like a bit of a like a deep impact Armageddon situation for 1960. Yeah, I don't know if they're like quite that one-to-one, but yeah thematically there is a lot of crossover, for sure.
01:03:08
Speaker
ah You were talking about like the writerly parts of this movie, and like the script is just very snappy. It's it's very, very snappy script. Written and directed by Joseph Mankiewicz, brother... The other Mank. Brother brother of Herman, right.
01:03:22
Speaker
or the Yeah, exactly. The other Mank. We can still call him Mank. I guess maybe ah Joe didn't actually use Mank as a nickname, but you can't have two Manks running around Hollywood. Two Manks don't make a right.
01:03:35
Speaker
But two manks make a lot of movies. Yeah. And yeah, like the the dialogue in this movie is ah is great. It's very, it's not super like lingo heavy, the way that I think a lot of other like 40s, 50s movies can be. But it's like full of a bunch of lines that make you go like, ooh. Yeah, like, ooh, that's a good line. yeah I mean, I think one thing that I was kind of remarking on while i was watching this is just like everybody's being really bitchy to each other. he gets Very bitchy movies. Yeah.
01:04:01
Speaker
Yeah. The amount of like people talking about each other behind each other's backs and sort of like insults that are getting hurled in s sneaky ways. And like, yeah, bitchiness for lack of a better term is, is quite strong. I mean, yeah. Like, I think that a lot of people really love, like, you know, that this is a, this is one of those beloved by gays movies, you know? And like, it's, I think because of. Because it's bitchy and about Broadway. Yeah. And also, like, you know, Betty Davis and all that. There's, like, a whole thing going on. But um ah this is not this is not specifically related to bitchiness, cattiness, or whatever. But I was reading that, like, about other ah other actresses that were considered for Eve. And ah there was another one who ah was going to be Daryl Zanuck's choice for Eve. Yeah. And Mankiewicz said, like, rejected her because he said that she lacked the bitch virtuosity. And I'm like, you know what? Like, that's kind of what you need for that character. Yeah. And I'll, like, yeah, well said. And that was the correct choice. Yeah.
01:05:12
Speaker
Because I do think, what who's who actually plays you? Anne Baxter. Anne Baxter, I think, is baxter is very good in this movie in that she is genuinely believable as the sort of, like,
01:05:23
Speaker
incredibly sort of modest, like nobody look at me. Yeah. Like I, I, I'm embarrassed to be here. I'm taking up, I'm taking up too much space in the one inch of the corner that I'm in. And then she switches. it's that switch where you're like, Oh my God, like this woman is a psychopath. Yeah. Yeah, there is that moment where she has her friend call Karen's husband to say, like, Eve is distraught. She's crying. She's like, everything's horrible. You need to go and check on her. And then, like, as soon as she hangs up the phone, the camera moves over to Eve. And you see her just, like, smiling and sitting on the staircase like, my master plan is coming together. But it's, yeah, it's like, don't... Even Eve, who I think is probably the most, like... Is one of the more antagonistic characters in this movie. Is, like...
01:06:18
Speaker
is treated as a, ah just a human. Yeah. Right. It's like, it's never like, oh, right. She doesn't, she doesn't murder anyone. Like there's a degree to which I think this movie almost is restrained from like melodrama. Yeah. That I think is really, she's un makes it play a lot stronger. Like she does bad things unrepentantly. Yeah. And calculatedly, but also like she does like want,
01:06:44
Speaker
I don't know, like, even these people that she's kind of, like, screwing over, she wants to be their friend still, think. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think. No, I i do yeah, I think so. And, like, you know, it goes back to that awards scene um at the beginning where she's, like, saying thank you to all of these people that she stepped on. on Yeah, that she's been lying to, and, yeah. Yeah, and then, like, you know, she does greets them after she's done, they're all just like, fuck you. yeah like yeah Addison, the the critic, is like, he's just a huge piece of shit, like through and through. He's like a so he's like so cynical about the world, and it has yeah allowed him to become that way. There's the bit at the end where he kind of gives Eve the ultimatum, and he says, we deserve each other. As as he's like, you know, telling her all this stuff, like, you belong to me, I own you, and then she's crying. He's like, i don't understand.
01:07:39
Speaker
He's like, you're pitiful, and yet I'm attracted to you. And he's like he's like, we're both monsters. I guess we we deserve to like end up together. um Critics. Yeah.
01:07:50
Speaker
I mean, that right feels like that is kind of part of this movie. It's who is the most monstrous character? The critic. It stinks. Eve kind of uses him as a means to an end. And he's like, sort of like i saw through your act the whole time, and now I'm using you too. well Right. because He's the one person actually that actually follows up on her backstory and is like, that whole thing was a lie.
01:08:11
Speaker
Your entire id identity is... is invented. I think that sort of the way that a lot of the characters in this movie do really mean nasty spiteful things and yet all feel very human is one thing I was very kind of one of my big takeaways.
01:08:29
Speaker
Yeah. um Like there's no, like Addison is probably the closest thing that the movie has to like a villain. But even he's just like, he's just like an asshole. Like, you know, like he's absolutely, he's not a good person. Yeah. And I think, yeah, the way that this movie is able to sort of like have a these, met lots of different characters all sort of like be mad at each other and like be doing nasty things to each other at certain points. And then by the end of it, it's like the chips have all fallen in a way where you're like,
01:08:57
Speaker
I'm satisfied where everyone ended up. Yeah, true. Even though a lot of them still aren't happy. Yeah. Yeah. people got Some people got what they deserved and some people like found a way to move into the situation that they're in at the end of the movie and be at peace with it. Yeah. Well, like because there's a period in the movie where Margot starts being really nasty to Eve and Where you're just like, Margo, geez, like calm down. like Like, you hired her. Like, you invited her into your life. And now you're just like pissed at her for like being younger than you. Right.
01:09:30
Speaker
um But then she kind of gets over it. She kind of gets over it. And then Eve is revealed to be a ah lying psychopath. So it's sort of like, all right, I guess, you know. Maybe maybe Eve had a point to be nasty to her. It's cool. to It's interesting to see Margot's process through the movie. you know like she's like we We're talking about like the crossroads that she's at. And it's like you're watching her have to confront all of these feelings that are being brought up by people kind of...
01:09:57
Speaker
Her realizing and people sort of telling her that she's getting too old. And, like, it's a whole other question of whether that is a valid thing. Like, is is she too old to play, like, you know, young characters? Like...
01:10:12
Speaker
you know maybe but like is she too old to exist like everything wants her to set and yeah say to her she has to recognize that that is not true but like that that that is the world that she's living in also i was watching this uh with a friend yesterday she had apparently seen the stage version of sunset boulevard and she was like this really reminded me of but She was she's watching All About Eve and she was like, this really reminded me of this play that I saw and I was like, was it Sunset Boulevard?
01:10:43
Speaker
Incredible. And the other thing that she said, which is one other kind of spare ah little note about this movie, is she ah saw this like random background character and was like, whoa, she's really hot. I was like, that's Marilyn Monroe. Yeah. Marilyn Monroe, who I think is really funny in this movie.
01:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, she's good. I haven't seen, this might actually be the only Marilyn Monroe movie that I've seen. I think I've seen like assorted scenes from some others, but like, and this is not, I don't think this is her first movie role.
01:11:16
Speaker
She gets like funny stuff to do. Kind of I guess kind of playing maybe a somewhat exaggerated version of herself of a kind of maybe ditzy, blonde, wannabe actor, who is quickly, like, discarded by, like, the the theater elites. Right.
01:11:34
Speaker
She's auditioning for the play that ah the whole story revolves around and doesn't get it. And then Addison, who's sort of, like, is shepherding her her career, is i was like, oh, you can you can audition for television. And she goes, oh, there are auditions for television? And he goes, television's nothing but auditions.
01:11:54
Speaker
Which is, like, a really mean way of describing TV. Yeah, yeah. Like, ah yeah, it was interesting seeing that. Like, yeah the showbiz, or I mean, know, this is a movie, this is set in Broadway world, but also ah being made by Hollywood people. And there's a lot of, like, shit talking that it does about Hollywood, too, in this movie, which I think is interesting. like coming from the perspective of stage people or whatever. Now that we're beginning to see the kind of like existential threat of television to the movies, we're getting to see movies take little pot shots at TV, which I think is kind of
Rashomon: Truth and Perspective
01:12:32
Speaker
interesting. Yeah.
01:12:33
Speaker
All about Eve. somewhat concerns people having differing perspectives on things. Yeah. Like secrets being revealed and being like, ah see, like that's not what happened. Actually what happened is this. Sure. Okay. Sure.
01:12:50
Speaker
And what movie is more famous for that sort of thing than Akira Kurosawa's film Rashomon? Rashomon. Hmm. I don't remember Rashomon being like that. Yeah.
01:13:05
Speaker
this entire segment talking about this movie. So was just going to both be going, remember it being a little different. I'll give you the the rough summary this time. and You can tell me if it's, then you can give your own version of it. There's a couple people in who ah huddle up in this temple. I think the temple itself is called Rashomon. Yeah.
01:13:29
Speaker
It's like a rainstorm, and they just look haunted. There is ah a guy who walks up and is like, why do you guys look so haunted? and they're like, let me tell you our horrible story. And so three days ago...
01:13:42
Speaker
This zoo farmer, I think. he a woodsman. A woodsman. He's got an axe. There you go um He ah tells about how he happened upon a dead body while he was in the woods searching for wood. And he ran back and told the police. And then there was a big kind of trial where... He was called to testify to see what happened with the body. And there's also a priest there, like a monk. And he was the last one to see the guy alive. So he's called as well. The two of them are are here in the temple. And first the woodsman tells a story. Then the monk tells a story. And then they're like, well...
01:14:31
Speaker
Then it turns out that a lot of other people had their own kind of versions of what happened. And then we get a bit more detail about like what the actual event was rather than these two things about like what happened after the event. Mm-hmm. So we hear what happened initially, and it's kind of there's a bunch of different versions of what happened. It's Rashomon. That's the idea behind it.
01:14:55
Speaker
So the movie is like a process of sort of like untangle trying to untangle what the truth is as we hear the testimony of all of these other people who had their own perspectives on this event that happened that led to this death. Mm-hmm. And you start realizing that all of these all of these people who are telling these stories of what happened are changing things a little bit in order to start saving face or to make themselves look good. or like Not look bad or to look good in this scenario. But like...
01:15:32
Speaker
Vaguely, the things that probably happened are that there was this bandit that was played by Toshiro Mufune who saw a woman riding on a horse with her husband, like a samurai, and He was like, I thought she looked like a goddess or something. And then he... And and then this is where like all the stories start kind of getting mixed up about exactly the process here. But basically, he he raped her and did something with her husband. And there's a bunch of different versions about what happened. The husband is dead. you know And the husband is the one that's dead. And now the bandit has a story.
01:16:14
Speaker
The wife has a story. a psychic medium who is speaking for the dead man has a story and then the woodsman amends his story right because he actually he was like I didn't want to get involved but actually I saw the whole thing I didn't arrive afterward and so you have like basically four versions of this event that all do not corroborate with each other but They're all clearly involving lies. and Right. they don't they They all contradict each other somewhat.
01:16:49
Speaker
And it's always... Whoever's telling the story is sort of trying to make themselves look better in each of them. Yeah.
01:17:00
Speaker
Although... I'd seen this movie before. One of my big thoughts while watching it this time was like... The stories aren't as different as I remember them being. Like, they they are... The actual, like, sequence of events is more or less the same in all of them. Like, there's variation and, like, exact... Right, like, who killed the husband is a question that changes...
01:17:24
Speaker
And how and egypt why. Right, yeah. But it's it's usually like the why that changes. And it's mostly like the different perspectives are about sort of like how someone said something versus what was said.
01:17:36
Speaker
Which I think is, this movie is remembered and is famous for. It's like, these are like conflicting stories of the same events. it's Like everyone's perspective is different. Yeah. And it's like, I was, yeah, I was like, oh, they're like not as different as I even remember them being. It's like, it's, it's the the differences are more subtle.
01:17:54
Speaker
I mean, and I think that, like, across the different... They're not, like, completely different stories each time. Yeah. Like, across all of the different stories and the kind of, like, what's going on with the framing narrative is that, like, maybe the fact that everybody's lying about this and looking out for themselves when somebody died or was killed or was raped is...
01:18:19
Speaker
speaking to some rot of the human soul, you know, where like maybe these people shouldn't be lying and maybe we should just be like, you know, like... Right. It's it's sort of implied that all four versions of the story are... ah are Somewhat not true. Yes. yeah are all Are all being filtered through that individual sort of like...
01:18:42
Speaker
lies Like yeah all of them are subtly shifting things or leaving things out or changing stuff. But it's it's much less of a like, like full outright lies. And it's more, i don't know. Yeah, ah the the differences were more subtle than I guess I had remembered them being. Yeah. And so it's less about my own memory was inaccurate. It's less about what practically happened and more about like how more trying to color how people should feel about it. And in particular, like how a
01:19:14
Speaker
group of people who's going to decide whether or not you are put in jail or executed or whatever is going to feel about it and like even the bandit when he's testifying you know he doesn't say i didn't kill the guy he's like i did kill the guy the bandit fully is like yes i am a rapist and a murderer but like but i'm a cool one exactly it was like i was doing it for cool reasons yeah Which I also think is like, right, that's kind of the first big scenario that we play out is the Bandit's version of events.
01:19:45
Speaker
And it is striking that the Bandit isn't really denying any of it. Yeah. Which is why, like, it really feels like he's trying to myth-make about himself. Right. He's sort of trying to make it... Yeah, I mean, he is kind of trying to make it seem... Not that he's like a good person, but that it's like...
01:20:04
Speaker
that he He committed a really sort of like impressive crime I guess like yeah, and also like there's like an honor aspect to it sure like yeah like a lot of these characters including you know There's this one that we never really get a direct point of view on which is the guy that died right like the guy that died we could take it at face value that he's speaking completely accurately through the medium assuming that he is actually speaking through the medium. Yeah. Which I think the movie more or less is sort of like, that's our our best guess. Like, it doesn't really try to seed that much, like, doubt into, like, maybe this medium has their own agenda that they're trying to get across. Right, but it's, like, another, you know, it's another filtration yeah on top of what may or may not be true. Like, it is the words of, like, even if it's straightforwardly correct that the guy who has died died was speaking precise words through the medium's mouth, Like it's still being said by another person. Yeah. And not just that, the the the medium's words are being relayed by these other two like yeah narrators to this other guy in the temple. We're like four layers of narration deep. And and now we're talking about it. Don't believe what we say about this movie. You have to watch it yourself. Yeah.
01:21:20
Speaker
And so, like, yeah, there's, like, another... It's, like, because there's so much unreliable narrators happening in this movie, like, you know, I think it's trying to get you to think specifically about the stories themselves. Yeah. But then you also, like, it makes you think, like, okay, but it's, like, these same people who have already lied about stuff who are relaying the lies that everybody else told, you know? i think...
01:21:41
Speaker
kind of the thesis of this movie is every narrator is unreliable because it's always going to be filtered through that person's perspective and thoughts and yeah it's just like what how you tell a story matters and when you say how you tell a story right like how you tell a story matters in terms of like your guilt I suppose but like um But also, like, there is, you know, it's a movie. It is telling a lie for you. Yeah. You know? And ah there's a point where the person in the temple they're telling this um the story to, he says, I don't care if it's a lie as long as it's entertaining. And it's just like, cinema, baby! Movies! Yeah. Yeah, I mean, i i think a reason why, i think especially filmmakers love this movie so much, because it is, it's about like the nature of- movie about making movies. It's a movie about the nature of stories and storytelling. Yeah, yeah. I think that interestingly though, it's kind of a movie about true stories, right? Yeah. It's not necessarily, like, yes, it's an an an entertaining lie, like is a way that you could phrase a fiction story. But like really what this movie is about is like the troubles of,
01:22:52
Speaker
documentary filmmaking or like biography filmmaking. Right. Well, it's it's about sort of like the the the fluidity of like the truth. Yeah. Of like the truth being like a single point.
01:23:03
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like. the Except that there is a truth. There is a real truth. That we never see. It's not like the. Yeah. Theoretically. Yeah. Maybe none of this happened. But I mean, because like the movie is framed in such a way that the woodsman's version of the story is sort of kind of presented as the most likely or the closest to the truth.
01:23:27
Speaker
In that no one looks good in his version of the story. Right. He tells fake version that makes himself look good. And then he gets so kind of discouraged about the world. His fake version is he came to the crime totally after the fact and then ran and told people about it. Yeah. And didn't watch it occur.
01:23:45
Speaker
And then, yeah and then he talks after he he relays to this guy in the temple afterward, like an updated version that, you know, might still have some lies in it. But like, crucially, all of these people's version of the truth is not necessarily making themselves look evil. good good but it's making them look good from their own perspective it's a bunch of kind of messed up people who have messed up perspectives the bandit story is like he doesn't look good in that story but yeah he is trying to like tell it in a way that like is is you know aggrandizing yeah yeah um and yeah it's notable i guess i mean you know it's i think what story is true is a bit of a like
01:24:28
Speaker
did the Inception top stop spinning question, you know? Yeah, like, the point of the movie is that there there there is no there is no answer yeah to, like, which one is true. ah but But you're correct that, like...
01:24:40
Speaker
the one where someone is willing to tell a story where they don't look good in their own eyes, uh, is probably the more likely closer to true one. Right. But yeah, it's like talking about the troubles in general of portraying the truth. Yeah. But also like that the truth is always going to be filtered through ah a perspective. If someone is telling a story, multiple people can observe a single event and tell a different story of that event.
01:25:08
Speaker
Even though, even though the event was the same. And I mean, in in particular... People can watch the same movie and come away with very different ideas about it. Yeah. In particular... The movie didn't change. Like in the um in the context of this movie, about criminal justice, you know? you know there weren't There might not have been studies about this kind of thing then, but we know that like eyewitness testimony now is very, very flawed. um Because...
01:25:35
Speaker
people are constantly rewriting their own memories in their head and like very critical details about crimes end up often being things that people just imagined and yeah remember as memories. The fact that this movie is framed as a like crime investigation does feel very kind of pointed that it's like, this is necessarily like a problem with, I mean, it is a problem with crime solving, but it's like,
01:26:02
Speaker
I mean, also, just it's like the highest stakes version of this kind of narrative structure, I guess, right? Of like, something very bad happened. Who's responsible?
01:26:13
Speaker
We need to find the truth about this thing. Yeah. And it's like, good luck. Yeah. There is no truth. What is truth? What is truth? Yeah. The movie begins with these two characters being so haunted by what happened. um But like, they're like...
01:26:29
Speaker
you know, somebody died. And the guy goes like, people die all the time. Who cares? One person died? They're like, no, this one's especially bad. And it kind of seems like it's not even that they think that that murder is especially bad. It's just that they're so shaken at the lack of...
01:26:49
Speaker
consensus reality and that's what's upsetting them so Right, yeah. And and the priest in particular is sort of like, I don't want to believe that like all people inherently lie, that that's just like a universal truth.
01:27:03
Speaker
Or is it? right but yeah the movie ends with them discovering a kind of random crying baby that has been there the whole time that is in the temple and like it's like a moment for everybody to ah confront uh the fact that here's another moral conundrum that happens right now yeah we've explored how bad the human soul can get now what do you do with a crying baby Yeah. Right. And it's sort of like one guy is like, how dare the parents leave, abandon this baby.
01:27:40
Speaker
And other guy is like, we don't know. Like they left this like protection charm with the baby. Like we don't know what happened. Yeah. We don't know who left this baby here. Maybe they, maybe this baby was saved from a ah horrible fate by leaving it here.
01:27:52
Speaker
And so, yeah, there is so a sort of like wrap up. micro yeah like it's like maybe there's hope after all because the woodsman says i have six kids a seventh isn't going to be too bad i'll take the baby and again it's like we don't see his home life we're assuming he's telling the truth true yeah i mean i think the the way the movie ends it it i don't think the movie is leaning that far into the ambiguity there yeah i think that the movie does make an attempt to end on a hopeful note i think While still yeah having a lot of a lot of dialogue about like the depravity of of humanity. Yeah. yeah the The priest at one point says, I don't want this place to be hell. And I'm like, yeah. Don't know what don't know what that feels like. When they're first talking about Rashomon the temple, or like the town that it's in, I guess, they mention how like they're like, this temple like used to be haunted by like a demon. But then the demon left because the people in this town yeah were so bad. I'm like, i I buy it. Yeah.
01:28:56
Speaker
There's a reason why I think this movie is kind of so well-known and well-liked. It's very creative. Use of like a narrative. It's just like it's I mean, it's not your curious. i I didn't write the initial story. This is based on but like that the the kind of structure of it of like here is an event and we're going to see Subtly different contradictory perspectives of that thing from different people.
01:29:20
Speaker
I mean that that's ah been another things that's like a recurring not really a trope, but like an idea in, in storytelling, I think you do a Rashomon do it. Yeah, exactly. So it's a Rashomon situation. We don't know what happened.
01:29:33
Speaker
I mean, i think this movie's interesting. It brings up a lot of interesting ideas. I always... like This is my second time seeing it. And it's been 13 years since I watched it previously. And I looked at my Letterboxd rating from 13 years ago. Oh, boy. And i didn't rate it very highly. And i don't I didn't remember too much of the plot coming back in And i sort of felt 3.5 out of 5 about this again this time. Because...
01:30:00
Speaker
I think that it's trying to be ideas first and the way that it presents them, it does inspire thought, but it presents them, I think, a little clunkily.
01:30:12
Speaker
And but i think more crucial to me. I found it really hard to feel like emotionally invested in anything that was happening. Because it's so like about ideas and so slippery as to what's actually happening.
01:30:27
Speaker
like Even though there's like really dark stuff that happens, you don't actually directly see any of it. And so, like I don't know. like I felt a little distant from this movie. Last time and this time. It's hard for me to like a movie...
01:30:44
Speaker
If I feel distant from it. Yeah. I mean, that's that's fair. And so, yeah, I think it's like personally, i think Rashomon is like more of an interesting concept than a movie that I like a lot. Right.
01:30:57
Speaker
um And I do think the like the concepts that this movie is playing with are the best thing it. um I do think the performances in it are very good. Toshiro Mifune the goat.
01:31:08
Speaker
i respect good Especially him because he's playing the biggest character. He's playing the bandit. So he's he gets to just be insane the whole time. but it's like which is Which is where he's good. It's also funny that the last movie we watched from him, he was clean-cut, fresh-faced detective. I know. And now he's in like full, not full Mofune, samurai guard, but he's like, his hair is long, he's got the beard, he's got the crazy eyes, he's sweaty the whole time. He's just like yelling and like, yeah. He's hooting like Daffy Duck at points. It's, yeah. No, I...
01:31:40
Speaker
And it's it's also interesting, like, we'll see more of his Kurosawa movies going up, but like, yeah this movie to Seven Samurai, where he's playing kind of a, his mannerisms are, he's still like scruffy and sweaty, but he's more heroic in that movie.
01:31:54
Speaker
But he's like a bit. And then like Yojimbo, he's like a lot more, he's still scruffy, but he's like more refined a little bit. guess so. Yeah. But like. quieter. When we saw Stray Dog, I was like, this is not the Mifune I know, you know? Right. Yeah. It feels really, really different. I feel like Mifune is really in his element when he's greasy. Sure. Yes. Greasy Mifune is the best. And I love greasy Mifune. And this is probably him maybe at, possibly at his greasiest, his most unsavory probably.
01:32:23
Speaker
Right. But yeah, it's like the the subtle shifts in performance between each of the different ah narratives or the the different stories being told. I think it's really impressive. Like all the the the three actors, I don't know the other two's names, right? They're like, they're oftentimes saying the same dialogue, playing the same scenes out, but like in in different ways. And I think that it is just a nice showcase for their performances.
01:32:49
Speaker
Yeah. ah Being able to like yeah yeah play the same scene multiple times and then like adjust it little bit. Yeah, I think especially Machiko Kyo, who is the wife, like, she gets a lot to do. Yeah. um And gets lot. She might have, like, the biggest like shifts in like, how she's playing the scene. Yeah. Yeah. yeah like Like, what her role is, is the yeah the one that, like, changes the most. and she does she does well with all of it, for sure.
01:33:17
Speaker
Yeah. Pretty good movie. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, this has got a lot of great just Kurosawa stuff in it. It just like every shot feels like perfectly framed. Yeah.
01:33:27
Speaker
I like that. Like during the courtroom scenes, the woodcutter and the monk are just kind of hanging out in the background. Right. Yeah. But it's like cool that they're in the same shots. Yeah. and like we we still see them. the The use of weather is like a big Kurosawa thing. Like, Kurosawa loves some rain, and this is a very, very rainy movie.
01:33:45
Speaker
The possibly low letterbox rating of this movie might also be a thing where it's like, I think this a very good movie. In my, like, Kurosawa rankings, it's probably not even my top five. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting movie, but, like, Seven Samurai, like, you talk about movies that, like, grab you emotionally, and, like, Seven Samurai, you know? Right. You're just, like, hell yes. Movies that are just, yeah a ten-course meal. Yeah. And, like, you know, this is exploring a single idea, but I watched ah Ron recently, and, like, that one... Never seen that one.
01:34:17
Speaker
That one just covers, like, so many kind of, like, interesting human condition things. This is not an epic... The way that a lot of other Kurosawa movies are epics. Yeah. This is a like a very tight, like it's focused on like this one thing, this one idea and sort of extrapolating out from that.
01:34:34
Speaker
Yeah, I i i do. i I love the concept of this movie so much. I love how the movie is very happy being as like, I think you said slippery before. It's like, it's it's very comfortable not giving you clear answers to everything and even kind of questioning the idea of like, can a clear answer exist even?
01:34:53
Speaker
Like, is are are humans just inherently too... Self-serving. Self-serving, but also just like, you know, everyone lies to themselves. Everyone just has inherent bias, I guess.
01:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. I like how much the movie is when they commit to that idea. Another movie about things that may or may not be imagined... Mmm. Nice segue. Is Harvey.
01:35:16
Speaker
A weird movie. Yeah, I don't know. I say that as if some of the other movies you watched for this episode aren't very, very weird. This one I just, I like... This movie confused the hell out of me. I think it's fun Not in terms of what happens, but just in terms of like, what What's going on here? What's going on here? Yeah. You want to sum it up? This think...
01:35:43
Speaker
The one movie that we watched for this episode that i had never seen before. liking in and in in I've seen it twice before. In pieces or anything. like i went this I knew that the
Harvey: Comedy and Folklore
01:35:52
Speaker
the concept, which is Jimmy Stewart is a small town guy who is best friends with an invisible ah six foot three and a half ah talking rabbit. Anthropomorphic rabbit that only he can see, seemingly. And everyone else in town is like...
01:36:10
Speaker
Thinks he's a kook. And but he's just really pleasant. He's just sort of like he's just he's so nice. Right. He's just super nice. But everyone gets general everyone is like, this is a problem. His his ah his sister and niece are like trying to get him committed.
01:36:25
Speaker
Psychiatrists are kind of trying to like figure out what's going on with him. I guess. Would you call this? ah it is. like It's framed as a comedy. Yeah, it's got it's got like a lot of screwball elements to it. does, which I actually feel like maybe is part of my problems with it. but I understand that, yeah. yeah it's ah It's walking a fine line. It's just, yeah, it's it's not weird in like the the things that happen, but it's weird, I guess, in just its tone. I feel like its tone is a little maybe off.
01:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's the Jimmy Stewart Invisible Rabbit movie. Yeah. i don't know. what What did you think? I mean, i i quite like this movie. I do understand what you're talking about with, like, the tonal issues. And I think that, like... I went into this movie hot, too. I was like, oh, man, I can't wait to finally watch Harvey. Like, this you know, another sort of very well-known movie. think it's always just, like, worked for me. i mean, I think, like...
01:37:18
Speaker
You know, the tonal issues come from, like, the kind of seriousness and sadness of, like, certain elements of it. So, I mean, one thing about this is... Mixed with, like, it not really treating them very seriously, I think. Yeah. The the Jimmy Stewart character is not really the, like, audience POV character.
01:37:38
Speaker
Elwood is his name. And it's... Elwood P. Dow. Yeah, we're most... Take my business card. Oh, yeah, my business card right here. Don't use that number. That's the old number. Use this number. We're mostly seeing this guy through, again, through the perspective but of the people around him, like his sister, the the doctors. It's like, it's mostly other characters interacting with him. Crucially, you don't see the rabbit. Yes.
01:38:02
Speaker
for Through the whole story, ah you know, it's kind of unclear how crazy he is, you know? I would say through most of the story, the movie is, through the the language of the movie is pausing that, yes, he is delusional. There is no rabbit.
01:38:16
Speaker
But like, it's always like they're like, you know, you almost like want to believe that he's right, you know? yeah and And then the movie, you know, it it had a really big choice to make about whether or not it confirms that he is, he it it hit is real. And it turns out that the rabbit is real. Yeah. It's a puka. Or at least, yeah, yeah ah according to like the language of the movie.
01:38:38
Speaker
Well, no, there's, like, doors that open. like Sure, that's that's what I mean that. But that's the sort of thing where it's like, yeah, the door's opening, but, like, we never see the rabbit, right? It's never, like, 100%, like, boom. The rabbit is here, he's speaking to to another character. we Well, he does speak to another character. but Another character who might who might have gone crazy also. Right, there's, like...
01:38:58
Speaker
the movie There's just an enough ambiguity in there that you could still come away. The movie confirms that the rabbit is real because it shows... it doesn't show the rabbit, but it shows the effects of an in invisible thing that is interacting with the physical world. yeah And that is the confirmation that the movie gives you. And it like vindicates...
01:39:22
Speaker
elwood oh a whole lot in this movie certainly that like you know yeah there's even though he's seeing a real invisible rabbit there is still something a little kooky about him and that he doesn't recognize that everyone thinks that he's out of his mind yeah he's just like have you met my friend he never acknowledges that no one else can see harvey yeah the the titular rabbit um But he like always speaks for the rabbit. He's like, he says this, you know, yeah which like it seems like he's there's a bit of a delusion going on even while he's talking to a real. Harvey may be an actual um rabbit spirit and Elwood might also be a little gooky.
01:40:05
Speaker
The relationship that this movie has to, I don't know, the psychology industry, I think is an interesting thing. like there It is interesting. they're like That's along the lines of the tonal stuff, because like there are elements of this movie that if they were played...
01:40:22
Speaker
differently And maybe played in a way that's a bit more honest. Like they would almost be like horrific, you know? Yeah. It is like people getting put in institutions against their will. Or like the people um who run...
01:40:40
Speaker
asylums being really cruel and uncaring and rough to the people who they're trying to help quote on the vote you know the the doctors are not sympathetic dude the doctors in this movie are insanely terrible at their jobs like beyond the fact that this movie is kind of supposed to be like a wacky comedy at in places the The ineptitude of the medical professionals in this movie is crazy. But not just ineptitude, but like evil, basically. yeah know It is only through... you know We're not walked looking at it through Elwood's eyes, but we are with Elwood, who is this really like just kind, happy-go-lucky person who, like even in bad situations, he's just like...
01:41:27
Speaker
I'm happy wherever I am, you know? Like, if my sister feels better about living, like, she is embarrassed of me being around, and so she wants to have me committed, yeah i guess that's okay, you know? yeah Like, ah you know, i'm happy, you know?
01:41:44
Speaker
And so we're able to see these, like, kind of villainous doctors through his eyes, where he's just like, you two are in love, aren't you? Shouldn't you two get together even though you're so mean to this other person? Yeah. I think that's sort of part of my problem with this movie is that it's like, it it's kind of like everything works out in the end. And I'm like, the psychiatrist and the like nurse the nurse do kind of end up together. And I'm like, they shouldn't.
01:42:09
Speaker
Yeah. That's a bad couple. Yeah. You know, like the sister does sort of have a change of heart by the end of the movie. But it's like is so what I thought cruel to her brother throughout most the movie. She is. And I think it's only like... But in a way that the movie doesn't almost seem to recognize.
01:42:24
Speaker
I mean, I think that it may be... The movie is making a choice to make... To like force all of this to be funny. Right? Yeah. It's stuff that like... And it's... Not working for me. I think it works. I think it works. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable at points. But I think that it's funny and light enough with these dark subjects that I think it's able to just like let you kind of put aside their darkness to enjoy the comedy. But I can kind of understand why you wouldn't able Right. It's because it's like movie I thought about while watching this one was Archangel and Lace. Yeah. Definitively my favorite movie of the
01:43:00
Speaker
According to the last episode. And that movie deals with a delusional character, Teddy, who believes he's Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah. And everyone's just kind of fine with it. And everyone's just like, call him Teddy. Like, even the criminals are, like, very quick to, like, they start calling the basement Panama.
01:43:15
Speaker
And that movie, I think, is incredibly dark. Like, the subject matter of that movie is, like, murder, mental delusion, poisoning torture corpses. And yet it is it is, that movie is so funny and so light, light on its feet and silly.
01:43:31
Speaker
And I feel like this movie just doesn't, it doesn't thread that needle of like being funny, but also having dark subject matter. I think, yeah, I think that like it is, just funny enough for me to put the dark subject to like not have the dark subject matter taint it for me but yeah I think it totally makes sense that it would for many people I mean right I I wonder if had Frank Capra directed this movie if it would have been the same movie but better like this feels like it is It has Capra. It is going for a Capra-esque tone. Especially with like the kind of earnestness of Jimmy Stewart's character. Right. And the sort of the way the movie ends with like, he's not hurting anybody. Just let him go on just being nice and going to the bar and like buying people drinks. Yeah.
01:44:17
Speaker
Yeah, i i I struggled with this one, which I was surprised by. I thought I would be really on board with it. Because I'm like, it's the Jimmy Stewart Invisible Rabbit movie. The the casualness with with which all the doctors call their patients psychos.
01:44:32
Speaker
oh yeah, I gotta to go to work and deal with all those psychos. It's like, you are a mental health professional, And some of that is the fact this movie is from 1950. That it's just like... The general sort of understanding and approach to mental health was not the same as it is now. It was it was much more cruel. But also, I thinks i think the movie is like trying to have fun with them being yeah cruel. Because I don't think the movie ever really thinks that that that that doctor is a good person, you know? No. But it it it never lets him off the hook, though. it or it it Sorry, it does let him off the
01:45:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He treats the nurse so terribly. There's a moment where he like tries to get her to like seduce Elwood. He's like, ah, use your feminine wiles or whatever. And it's like, you are her boss, sir.
01:45:20
Speaker
Again, like it's the fifties, you know, I get the things were worse back then. Yeah. But it's, it, there's a lot of that kind of thing that is like being played for laughs where I was just like, this just feels gross.
01:45:32
Speaker
The orderly who is like constantly manhandling people. He's again, it's like, he's so aggressive. He grabs his blackjack with like, you're as a blackjack. No, no hesitation. The movie is both acknowledging that like this guy is he shouldn't be doing that. This is bad. Yeah. And, but also is sort of like, ah isn't he a scamp?
01:45:55
Speaker
Yeah. There's like just a, a, a shocking, maybe not shocking, but a, an uncomfortable amount of like sexual harassment in this Yeah. But like, yes, there's a lot of bad stuff in this movie.
01:46:09
Speaker
But also, there's a lot of fun in it, too. Like, it is watching Jimmy Stewart in this role. He's very charming. He is very good. Like that, no complaints. And like, like he he's playing this kind of like lovable dope ah that like...
01:46:25
Speaker
really is just like, hey, everybody, like this is my best friend. yeah He's a rabbit. he's like You'll love aggressively wholesome. And also, the way he like talks, like he kind of knows something that no one else knows a little bit. Because he's like, I am be like not not even in like a but like a kind of egotistical way. He's just like, I'm on another level than everybody else because I have my best friend. yeah you know he's hes ah He's achieved enlightenment by being friends with Harvay. Yeah, he's just like, am so happy and so peaceful and and I'm willing to look past all of these people being cruel to me yeah because I love my best friends so much. It is like it is it is physically impossible to piss this guy off. yeah like He will take everything in the best possible way. And it's nice. It's nice to watch him do that. yeah I feel like that is sort of what is able to get me over the hump of the uncomfortable stuff in the movie. Right. Because he has ah he has a line towards the end where it's like, you can either be clever or pleasant or something like that. Yeah. He's like, I decided to just be pleasant. Yeah. And like that is really him just kind of summing up his perspective, you know?
01:47:31
Speaker
Yeah. It does kind of make me wonder if there is a read of this movie of like, oh, this guy discovered like psychedelics and is now just nice all the time. maybe Elwood is just stoned all the time.
01:47:43
Speaker
Interesting. And then that's, you know, now he now he's just pleasant to be I mean, I think another kind of alternative read of this movie is that he's drunk all the time.
01:47:53
Speaker
which right is sort of an implication. Yes. That is like a direct implication that this movie makes. I think, I think that another kind of maybe subtextual kind of thing going on is the thing that he has to hide from everybody. His, ah his male friend that he loves so much, you know, him needing like people wanting to commit him to an institution for it. Being embarrassed to have him at their tea party. Yes. For old rich ladies. There is a point in the movie where some like his his sister says he never he never married. he lived He lived with his mother his whole life. you know yeah um
01:48:34
Speaker
i i don't i wrote this down. i think it was Elwood that said that. Oh, no, no I'm sorry. this was the um There's just other gay stuff in this movie, which is where... When the the doctor is convincing the work the the nurse to seduce Elwood, he says, give him the eyes, the swish, the works. I'm immune to it, but there must be someone here it works on.
01:48:58
Speaker
And it's and like, it's like that's that's the guy that the like girl is supposed to end up with in the movie? like That like guy sucks. Yeah. but like And clearly has like contempt for her.
01:49:11
Speaker
But I think that like the gay reading of this movie is like an interesting reading. I think that makes the movie more interesting. I think like reading it as a movie about a gay man that everyone has a problem with. He's happy. And then yeah and then everyone else kind of learns that it's like, he's fine.
01:49:28
Speaker
Everyone else is just mad at him for no reason. there's Yeah, exactly. There are some people who accept him, yeah even though he's not like the way that everybody, you know, ought to be, yeah quote unquote. And there are some people who just can't get over something that they don't really have any good reason for having a problem with it, you know? Because I think like the kind of and do you think that makes it a better movie.
01:49:50
Speaker
One, because it viewing the movie purely as as metaphor gets rid of a lot of the kind of just clunky kind of storytelling bits of like, oh, they don't want him like hanging around while they're having their fancy dinner parties.
01:50:04
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, you just tell them like, hey, this is my brother Elwood. He's a little kooky. He he thinks he's friends with a rabbit. Just like, just go with Yeah. His family's ashamed of him. Yeah. They're like, but they're like, he can't be in the house. Yeah. Like we can't be seen with Yeah. Like they're like ruining our social status. He's ruining our social status we just by just existing. We need to pick put him in. We need to, right, commit him so that we can have our dinner parties still.
01:50:28
Speaker
Which is, yeah, it's just like the the ah the the casual cruelness, I guess, of this movie is kind of what... But also, especially in the 50s, like a lot of casual cruelty towards gay people. Exactly. so I do think, yeah, that does kind of make the movie better.
01:50:42
Speaker
Yeah. But like also, you know, there are still issues with it. It's kind of too long and it's yeah kind of repetitive. Like, it's just like... Like, there's a lot of... Kind of similar to Cinderella, it feels like they had this much movie and they were like, this isn't enough. We gotta come up with some other stuff to put in here. Which is weird because, like, they could have just trimmed it down. Like, it's an hour and 50 minutes. Like, they could have cut 20 minutes out of this movie it would have been much leaner and much better, I think. I mean, I know it's kind of a recurring bit, but, like...
01:51:13
Speaker
There are so many times where he's just introducing himself to people over and over again. it's It's to show what a nice guy he is, right? Every single random person that he encounters. And like he I can think another kind of notable thing about him is that he's from a rich family. And his sister and niece like want to kind of keep that status of richness. And they're like, he keeps inviting drifters and random people from bars over, you know? And like he has no care for social status. Right. Yeah. Literally every single character he meets, he's like, come have a drink with me. Yeah. He's just like, I want to be your, Hey, wow. What's your life like? I want to be your friend. do you want to come over for dinner? and And they're, and they're just like, no, like, like, like he's like, do you want to come over for dinner? And they're being polite and they're like, oh yeah, like maybe sure. And he's just like, when?
01:52:08
Speaker
you Like, no, you're coming over to have dinner. I do think when people make social plans, that is a good instinct to have because I feel like there's so it's like, oh, like we'll we'll get get dinner sometime. That never happens. Yeah. Elwood knows. He's like, no, when? Like, let's pick a day now. He's just like, everyone I meet is going to be my friend, but none of them are going to be as good of a friend as Harvey, my my six foot three and a half rabbit friend. Which I like the thing of it's he's six foot three and a half because he's constantly looking up at Harvey and Jimmy Stewart is six foot three.
01:52:39
Speaker
So he has to be at least that much taller. I didn't realize that. I guess maybe then you're not counting the ears because then he'd be looking at the ears. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Do the ears count?
01:52:51
Speaker
i they can't. Yeah. There is there iss a point in the movie where you see a a painting. Yeah. That's the closest we get is there's a, a port he gets a portrait made of him and and Harvey. It's incredible. It's lovely. It's just a little cuddly Bugs Bunny looking guy. Yeah. But he's, he's got his arm around him and ah he has this, don't know, there's this like painting of their grandmother or something like that. Some kind of family institution of their richness. And he like brings it into the house and he's just like, hmm, Nah. And he just puts his picture of him in his rabbit. Much better. Good choice. Yeah.
01:53:26
Speaker
Right. he He mentions Harvey being a puka, um which is explained in the movie by the orderly reading from like the encyclopedia. And he's got a classic, a good like old time, like, hey, a puka. Yeah. Reading a puka is a spirit can appear in different forms. Apuke is, according to Wikipedia anyway, is primarily from, I think, Celtic folklore.
01:53:52
Speaker
Although, it is a lot crossovers that they're folklore and is a shape-shifting, sort of mischievous spirit that often appears as lots of different animals, including a rabbit. But the way that it is described in Wikipedia is it's sort of like, it's not really that far off from like a puck or a goblin.
01:54:09
Speaker
It's right. It's like a mischievous spirit that will, sometimes it'll help you and sometimes it'll mess with you. Mm-hmm. And don't know, that is like a weird thing to to like drop into this movie that it is like... Harvey isn't it just a thing that exists in this guy's head. like He's like a specific ethnic creature. Right. Harvey is a like an established folkloric entity.
01:54:33
Speaker
It's interesting, too, that it's like kind of like... um It's not like one of the big the big name ones, you know? Right. But it's like... It's not... that far off from saying that like Harvey is a demon right like that's not even a bad read of this movie let's call him an imp but I mean like even like you know demon in like Christian theology has like a very negative context whereas I think a lot of like pagan or non-christian religions have mischievous spirits and things where it's like, yeah, that's part of life, man. there's They're around. They'll throw you in a lake.
01:55:08
Speaker
But yeah, Harvey's never really cruel to anyone. No, but by all means, Harvey does seem like only has the the best intentions. Yeah. But Harvey, there's a point where the kind of guy in charge of the mental institution has a similar break with reality and is able to start seeing Harvey. And, like, Harvey's nice enough to him, and he's like... But then he asks Harvey to, like, use his powers to... What what is it like? It's like visit...
01:55:36
Speaker
himself in the past or something. Yeah. Right. But then like, you know, ah Elwood kind of leaves the the two of them to hang out with each other. And then ah Harvey leaves and and apparently tells Elwood like that, like it's it's you and me. yeah I ditched this guy. I see why this movie made an impact, certainly, because it is very strange and there's not really a whole lot else like it.
01:56:02
Speaker
But yeah, it's it's it's tonal weirdness didn't didn't work for me. Well, that leads us to our final film. Speaking of movies that are you know can play fast and loose with reality and ah perceptions of of such.
01:56:19
Speaker
Orpheus. Orpheus. Directed by Jean Cocteau. <unk> but we we what We watched his Beauty and the Beast film yeah a few up episodes ago. This is a a remake of Portrait of a Lady on Fire. that Yeah, I mean, this is ostensibly an adaptation of the Greek myth of Orpheus and Rhetese, which it it does adapt, but it the though like the full narrative of the myth takes place over, what, like 15 minutes?
01:56:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like, it really expands upon it, and it really is using that myth sort of as a jumping-off point for this crazy story about the afterlife and love and art and French stuff.
01:57:01
Speaker
Yeah. The nature of consciousness. Yeah.
Orpheus: Myth and Surrealism
01:57:05
Speaker
um So it's um it's Orpheus and Eurydice, the story. Yeah. ah But set sort of vaguely in contemporary France. Yeah.
01:57:16
Speaker
There is a, I forget if it's like text or narration at the beginning. Because subtitles, I remember them it just being It's narration. Yeah. this is It's an it's's just like Beauty and the Beast. It's got like It has a disclaimer being like, this is... This is a movie. Well, it's like, it says, this is a legend. A legend is entitled to be beyond time and space.
01:57:37
Speaker
So similarly, it is sort of like, don't worry about it. Yeah. Which I love. A lot of like that his approach, but also just the fact that there is a like disclaimer at the beginning. You're like, yeah, these Cocteau movies are just like, like they just start off with a narrator going like, this is what kind of movie this is. Which yeah I think is good. You know, yeah it's, it's priming people for what what they're about to see.
01:57:58
Speaker
ah And yeah, so Orpheus is, and this is a poet. Sometimes he's a musician. Like a world famous poet. Yeah. He's like the famous poet. poet Orpheus that is like Beatlemania like people running after him I love how he has the like youthful like French poetry poetry ah community is like ah Orpheus is here I think read the new Orpheus poem And then there's a little bit of oh ah playful, satirical ribbing of of maybe the the poetry scene by someone bringing holds up ah a book full of blank pages. And they go, this is the the new trend in poetry is nudism.
01:58:40
Speaker
where it's just blank pages. That was so funny. Yeah. Orpheus like, that's nonsense. And is it more nonsensical than a book full of nonsensical poems or something? This movie is so powerfully French. It is. This powerfully French. Existential musing in this movie. A lot of existential musing, lot of cigarettes, a lot of... lot of being mean to your wife. Being mean to your wife. Being mean, falling in love with death and having death fall in love with you. Yeah.
01:59:13
Speaker
Yeah. This movie is great. Yeah. This movie is really good. like This movie rules, I think. That's why it's like, I feel bad sort of like complaining about Harvey. but Like Harvey is a weird movie. I'm like, this is the weirdest movie and I love it for it. So here's the thing, right? Like I i think that there's a lot of stuff in this movie that I think that One could, i don't, but one could say like, this is, ah like kind of up its own butt, like, artsy-fartsy stuff. Like, it's just being abstract and weird, and it's not doing anything. But, like, i think it is, though. Yeah, agree. there's a lot of There's a lot of stuff in this movie that is kind of experimental and kind of, like...
02:00:03
Speaker
you know like i It's a very dreamy movie. you know it's I was thinking about Maya Darin while I was watching this. and But I think that like kind of crucial to something... Compared to something like a Maya Darin thing or like ah the Shenandoah or like Laje d'Or that we saw. Like this...
02:00:25
Speaker
all of this stuff is like locked onto a narrative where I think it like centers the kind of abstraction and it all feels, it feels like it works, you know, it feels like it makes sense. And I think that like it, it prevents it from feeling like this loose and slippery abstraction by having it be, you know, narratively bound. Which I think basing it on a Greek myth that has like very clear like emotional stakes. Yeah. It really helps that. Yeah. And also Greek myths are the kind of thing where it's like, they're not, they're never realistic, but they always make emotional sense. And, you know, I think that that that a Greek myth not being realistic and and but still making emotional sense, it it creates a really interesting juxtaposition with putting it in contemporary real life in France, right? Which I think the movie is also, like, having a lot of fun with. Yeah. Yeah, like, there's there's a lot of um weirdness and heightenedness that Greek myth has that you can just go like, ah, these are just mythology and stories in the past, right? And then when you put it in, like, a modern-day context, it is feels so heightened and wild and crazy. And it feels appropriate to use these kind of, like, strange filmmaking techniques. Because, like...
02:01:45
Speaker
The Orpheus story, as big as it is, doesn't work. like It doesn't just easily slot into real life, right? Like you need to have something heightened ah like because it is heightened. And so, yeah it's just like and a kind of interesting like the ways that these kind of like heightened, crazy other worlds are interacting with like the normal world that we live in. Yeah.
02:02:11
Speaker
The first time I saw this movie, I saw this movie in college at Duchess um as part of the the world film class that i took there. We watched this movie of Orpheus. We also watched the Brazilian movie Black Orpheus from I forget which year that is.
02:02:25
Speaker
want to say it's 60 something, which is also very good. We should watch that when we get get there as sort of like here are two different movies from different countries that are based on the same Greek myth.
02:02:37
Speaker
taking very wildly different approaches to it. Cause like black Corpheus is very grounded and is like probably the closest other than a portrait of a lady on fire like telling the story in like like real world context. hu Whereas this movie is like not remotely interested in telling a real world story. And I love it for it. Exactly. um But like watching this movie the first, for the first time when I was like, whatever, 18, um,
02:03:05
Speaker
If that, i was like, oh my... like It was kind of a movie where was like, I didn't realize movies were allowed to be like this. That's awesome. And i was I was like so blown away by it. I was like, oh my god, this is like... I don't even know what to compare this to.
02:03:18
Speaker
And it is sort of sat in the back of my head of like, oh yeah, the Cocktail Orpheus. Great movie. Super. and But I hadn't actually rewatched it until we did for this show. And I was so thankful and thrilled that it was like...
02:03:30
Speaker
better than I remembered it being. I was like, yes, this movie is so good. Yeah, yeah. Also, taken from taking that class, I won't say what it was because I don't want anyone to steal it, but i part of the thing in that class was coming up with your own take on the Orpheus, You Were to See story, which, you know, maybe someday I'll make that.
02:03:49
Speaker
But um yeah if if you if you know, you know. but Yeah, like, like, I think there's, there's just so much like cool stuff in this movie. And it's like using film yeah language. Yeah, very, yeah, like interesting ways. Right. I feel like it we haven't seen it doesn't feel like it's doing it just for the hell of it. No, it feels very deliberate. Yeah. But but it it feels like like this is like the kind of like using film language stuff that we haven't really seen much of since the silent era. you know yeah like like we haven't you know It hasn't been since the 20s, really, that we've seen something that is like being so visually experimental for a narrative purpose. And the stuff that this movie does is, like, so cool.
02:04:34
Speaker
so vibey, you know? It's, like, it's it's very, like, interesting imagery. and And it's doing, like, just, like, stuff that is... i think the thing is, it's, like, it's using, like, kind of unreal abstract imagery to...
02:04:52
Speaker
Portray an unreal world right right yeah like this movie a lot of this movie is like going back and forth between this like Afterlife realm and the real world right because kind of the real world as it's portrayed in the movie is portrayed Realistically, yeah everything just like when there's magical powers are happening everything that's weird has to do with right the sort of emissaries of the afterlife who are sort of entering the real world and right so all of yeah all of the supernatural stuff is portrayed through like yeah like weird keep saying weird i'm gonna be more descriptive than that but just like playing something in reverse happens a lot in this movie that's sort of a co i feel like a cocteau thing that he just likes
02:05:32
Speaker
and it's And it's people like something magical and strange happening yeah when something happens. But it's like it's not just something gets reversed. It's like, right, there's like magical gloves that you put on to go through a mirror. Mirrors are the entrances and exits to the to the afterlife. Cool.
02:05:48
Speaker
Very cool. A lot of great mirror shit in this movie. Yes. Including like putting on the gloves, which is the first the first time you see One of the times you see it. is the film is played in reverse. So the gloves look like they're like latching themselves onto his hands, which is great.
02:06:05
Speaker
And then there's right a shot of him walking towards the, like a POV shot of him walking towards the mirror. Yeah, you have the gloves in like extreme out of focus close up. Yeah. And then like, and then, or not close up, but like next to the the foreground. And then it's moving toward the mirror. there's no camera in the mirror. Oh! And so, you're yeah, you're seeing Orpheus walk toward the camera and then they meet where the mirror would be. And then the hands in front of the camera touch his hands. So you're looking at him from the other side of the mirror. yeah So cool. Much like in Beauty the Beast, super simple effect, like running the film backwards and also like making a fake mirror frame and having the actor walk towards camera. Yeah. To meet the hands. So it looks like he's walking towards the mirror and seeing his own reflection.
02:06:48
Speaker
But, like, super effective, right? That mirror gag is in, like, Terminator 2 and, like, ah all so many things do To the Marx Brothers. Exactly. And then, yeah, like, the shot of the hands going through the mirror, which I have to assume is, like, Mercury. It's, like, putting hands into Mercury.
02:07:04
Speaker
that part's so cool. It looks like the, like, shimmering, reflective surface of the hands going through the mirror. Yeah, so he's, like, going through the mirror into the spirit world or whatever. Yeah. And, like, you see him slowly walking in. They do so much, like, with, like...
02:07:17
Speaker
getting these like close-ups of him going through the mirror and it's like yeah the hand going into mercury and then like it cuts to like another shot where the mirror is like translucent glass and there's someone in there on the other side of it it's like that is the thing it's selling it really well i think that Cocteau I think does Beauty and the Beast also and does probably even more effectively here is it's like, right, this is basically one a effect in quotes of a guy walks through a mirror and it's every single shot of this is a different technique that is being used.
02:07:49
Speaker
And it's like merging them all together. Some of it's backwards. Some of it's forwards. Some of it's a plain sheet of glass that he's on the other side of. Some of it's this thing. And so the cumulative effect of that is it's sort of like anyone... course, we watch it now. We know what all the things are. So it's a little easier to spot. I was like, I can see what's happening at every point here. But also, it's...
02:08:11
Speaker
really cool. it's like, there is, the cumulative effect of doing four effects to achieve the same end result is a lot better because it's like... And specific shot scenarios too, right? It's like, showing the same thing from multiple angles and using multiple devices, multiple effects that are suited to the specific angle that you're seeing it from. But it, like, it, like, makes the thing blend from shot to shot. That's, like, part of the, like, cleverness and part of the, like, artfulness that I miss from, like, more in-camera effects. Like, if you do everything...
02:08:44
Speaker
Not, you know, CG artists are are good at the job. I don't want to, you know, denounce ah computer effects too much. But, like, only doing computer effects. I miss the sort of, like, the combination of all these different things creating the overall. Like, i think about, like, The Thing, the John Carpenter movie, does that where it's, like, every shot you see of the thing is like a different puppet.
02:09:07
Speaker
But because we're seeing it a little bit different each time, it feels like it's this like amorphous shape shifting thing. Yeah. I mean, this is an example of something else that does this.
02:09:18
Speaker
I don't think it does it poorly, but it's like another kind of instance of this effect um using CGI, ah which is, I mean, I think one of the most iconic things from this movie is that trendn that like moving in through the mirror. that's in ah In a different John Carpenter movie, he does the same thing.
02:09:36
Speaker
what What thing? In Prince of Darkness, I think there's also a like hand going through a mirror. Mercury shot. Well, what i'm what I'm talking about specifically is that mirror shot, which like you can see in the matrix in particular. Definitely. and Stargate kind of you know, having like a wiggly mirror, a wiggly like surface, a wiggly shiny surface that is walking through a vertical.
02:10:02
Speaker
water liquid yeah sort of uh it's so yeah it's so otherworldly it's so like transfixing yeah and like it really feels like i mean i think the matrix is making very deliberate reference to this like in in that in that sticky mirror scene and also right it is the scene where he goes to the mirror in this movie is very similar to the one the matrix yeah like he is right of course in the matrix it's flipped where he's exiting the the fake world and the left one blah right but actually had not thought of that whereas i was like that probably is a direct reference or like influence from this movie hey the matrix is a movie that uh just it wears influences on us yeah for sure there's a lot of stuff in this that i'm like oh that's that's
02:10:45
Speaker
Yep, I know will use that later. Like, there's the bit, which um I know you reacted very strongly to of them walking along a wall and then, like, sliding down the rest of the wall. Yeah, that was the one the one that I could not figure out how they did that. Right, which is, I think it's just, we're seeing it from the top down.
02:11:02
Speaker
And, like, the slidey part of the wall is a ramp. And they're just sort of, like, pretending to be walking when they're actually kind of, like, crawling. They really sell it because there's a person sitting on window. Yeah, exactly. They totally sell it. He's just sitting looking straight That like exact type of effect is in Bram Stoker's Dracula, the Coppola one, where Keanu Reeves like slides down part of a wall in the same way, which I had forgotten. It's just like very directly lifted from this There's another really cool part, too. Just so many interesting effects. And the thing is, they all feed the narrative. We're talking about all this stuff is. We're getting very technical, whereas the actual movie does have characters and stakes and things that are the main focus. There's a part where he's first entering the afterlife world. And this chauffeur, who getting to...
02:11:55
Speaker
getting to be involved in their business. Hurtubis. Hurtubis. The ghost chauffeur. A bit of a Karen kind of situation. I don't know like how specifically um ah that if Karen is in Orpheus and Eurydice, I know there's a lot of crossover with all those. Oh, okay. Yeah. But um yeah, I guess that's who would be. He's transporter. Yeah. Oh, he's a transporter. Yeah. But there's a part where it like, what's his name? her
02:12:27
Speaker
Hurtubis. Hurtubis is leading Orpheus through this kind of like, through this transitional space yeah into the other world. Which is shot in like, in ruins. Yeah. Orpheus is walking behind Hurtubis and is in a rear projection. Yeah. And so Hurtubis is like in front and And there's wind blowing on him. And because he's like this, he's a person who died a long time ago and then was like sort of conscripted into this ah role. Sort of implied that everyone who like works in the afterlife is someone who has died and has now been like like given a job. Yeah, which we should get back to. But... ah It's such a cool scene, like, kind of showing the difference between somebody who's, like, accustomed to being in the afterlife or somebody who is, like, of the afterlife. Yeah. And somebody like... visiting and someone who's, like, yeah. And so they're shown by, like, one person is a rear projection who's, like, trying to, like, almost just crawl through the air thick. I think they might be a little overcranked. And, like, and then one person who's just kind of gliding along. Right. He's not even... so
02:13:36
Speaker
and So it's it's able to show him gliding like because he's just standing in front of a screen that's going to projected. Yeah, but then but then it simulates the camera moving by having a previous camera moving that is being projected behind him. Well, then I like Soraya. He's got the wind on him, so like his hair is blowing in the wind.
02:13:55
Speaker
And Orpheus behind him asks... Why is there wind on you? And not me. I don't feel any wind. And Porte Bisa's like, don't worry about it. yeah It's the it's afterlife. It's magic. like Yeah, yeah. We don't understand it either. Right. And that too is like all the characters who are like from the afterlife are like, we barely understand how this works yeah already. But in that scene too, they do all this like really cool stuff to like link...
02:14:18
Speaker
the the two parts of the scene together where they're having a conversation with each other. And one of the cool things about this transitional space is that there are all of these like lost souls yeah who are um continuing on with their lives, not realizing that they're dead. and There's like a glass cellar who he walks through the frame in the rear projection and then he walks back through the frame in the yeah the real shot. So it's like linking the two parts together in a really yeah good way. Yeah, just like really clever, simple use of effects that is like, yeah, it's great. Yeah. I do really like the the world building of this movie, like the function of the afterlife and like how it, it's like very bureaucratic. And it's like, so this is like death is kind of just a person with a job. And it's kind of implied that there are many, like each person has someone that's like assigned to be their death.
02:15:12
Speaker
it's i think she's the death for more than one person she's definitely the death for more than one person but it's sort of like you i definitely get the sense that she is not the the sole figure of death she is like a a former human who is now functioning as death a reaper yeah a la manuel calavera yeah much like the video game grim fandango which must be riffing on this movie Right. Yeah. Like yeah having people who did not live the best lives, having to like pay off their, uh, their debt in the, in the transitional afterlife but between like the true heaven and the, um, and, and, yeah and and it being like a bureaucracy and they're being like, oh, my boss is on my back again. I'm not, I'm, I haven't like,
02:15:57
Speaker
This soul got put in the wrong place. It's so cool too because it's like a bureaucracy but it's like a mystical arcane bureaucracy. But it's and it's like as death says it's like this has been going on for so long and it's like there's so many layers to it like no one really knows. No one knows where like where the orders are coming from.
02:16:13
Speaker
Yeah, and there was such a cool part where you know all of these people who are acting as like these entities of the after, of like almost like forces of nature of the afterlife ah to like be the reaper for someone or be the chauffeur into the afterlife. There's a point where they say something like, we don't know why we're doing what we're doing. are we neurons in some kind of like thought? Are we like, yeah like responding to the thought of like God or something like that? Are we, are we, are are we his thoughts? Are we the man of the physical manifestation of his thoughts? are Like it was, it was so cool. Are we his dream? we His bad dream. Are we incredible? Very, very French. Very rules.
02:17:02
Speaker
Great. So cool. So good. um Yeah. We haven't even really talked about what I think a lot of the runtime of this movie is, which is like Orpheus, the poet, sees a guy get hit by some motorcycles and and dies and like accompanies that guy to the afterlife. Yeah.
02:17:22
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like because his death has fallen in love with him, he witnesses a death that he that she's bringing into the other world.
02:17:33
Speaker
And then it's just like, you, come with me. Yeah. And then he just like visits me after. Death falls in love with Orpheus. And then he kind of falls in love with her also, despite being married to Eurydice. By the way, him and Yurda C are not on good terms at the beginning of this movie.
02:17:46
Speaker
Right. He's kind of a piece of shit. Yes, absolutely. So much dialogue with that he's like so incredibly dismissive of her, which really enough in this movie didn't bother me as much because I'm like, oh, he's fringed.
02:17:58
Speaker
Like there's just, there is, I think this movie is able to totally find a place where the like, the cruelty inherent in their marriage. Yeah, it's not pleasant, but it's not like, it doesn't break the movie for me. We well we don't ever, you know, we see them as just like, I mean, it's taking real world figures, real world type people, and it's calling them Orpheus and Eurydice, right? It is like, you know, you're able to look at them not as like,
02:18:28
Speaker
like two real people in a real bad relationship because they have been like lifted up into myth. Right. They are mythic characters. I think the movie is expecting you to bring a certain amount of understanding and of familiarity with those character kind of archetypes while then also catching them as like a bickering French couple.
02:18:48
Speaker
A lot of this movie is death falls in love with Orpheus. Yeah. Orpheus is then intrigued by this like mysterious woman And like the world that he was brought into. He becomes obsessed with it after he gets back. Hortubis is right. Sort of this, ah I guess I came to a ferryman.
02:19:05
Speaker
He's a chauffeur. And then he is falling. For Yeah. He's falling in love with Eurydice at the same time. And then when Eurydice inevitably is killed, she is also hit by motorcycles. That's everyone who dies in this is hit by a motorcycle. Those motorcycle people seem to be like the instruments of death. Yeah. Also. Yeah.
02:19:25
Speaker
The henchmen of death. Where, yeah, it's just like, they i don't know if they're even literal motorcycles. I think they're like... not Yeah, not really. Yeah, they're they're like, someone dies, and then the motorcycle people drag them away. yeah And so we get the sort of like, right, the actual sort of from the myth, Orpheus descends into the underworld to get Eurydice back, um and is kind of given the...
Orpheus: Creative Inspiration and Influence
02:19:51
Speaker
He convinces the sort of whatever the the court of like old Frenchmen who kind of preside over the goings on in the underworld that it's like, all right, you can both return, return home.
02:20:03
Speaker
Orpheus can't talk about what he's seen. And also Urusy can come back, but Orpheus can't look at her. as per the myth. But what this movie does that the myth doesn't really do is like, they go back home immediately. There's no like long journey back.
02:20:17
Speaker
Yeah. It's just that then they're both in their house and Orpheus can't look at her. It's very funny to take the Orpheus and Eurydice myth. It becomes like Orpheus Eurydice as a sitcom for like five to 10 minutes.
02:20:30
Speaker
five to ten minutes Where it's like they're just trying to go through their everyday life again. But like he can't look at her. Yeah. And he like sees a picture of her in a magazine. He's like, oh, I looked. it's like, oh, no, you can look at pictures. That's fine. It's really funny to just like take that like heightened mythic thing. And then just like i feel like it feels weird that it's in the movie. But I almost feel like Cocteau was like.
02:20:54
Speaker
this is too funny of an idea to not do. yeah um so like, we're just going to like pause for a second and have ah a sitcom where they can't look at each other. And that's true like, as an adaptation of the myth, I don't think this really adapts the myth well in quotes. And it it doesn't, it doesn't have the sort of like, he could have gotten, cause that does, he does see her in the mirror and she disappears, but that's like,
02:21:20
Speaker
Fixed very quickly. Well, and also like this adds in a complication of that like Orpheus doesn't super care about Eurydice. No. Yeah. like Even as he's not allowed to look at her, he's like, this is just annoying. When when the, I can't say his French name, when the chauffeur like asks Orpheus, like, why are you going into the afterlife? Are you going for Eurydice or are you going for death? Yeah. and he's like, o both. Yeah. And like, you know, he is kind of going into the afterlife to choose which lady he wants. Yeah. And like, he tries to choose both. He ends up like, he's like, I might as well save you, Riddic. She's my wife, you know? But like, he doesn't like when, as soon as they're back, he's just like, man, it's such a pain in ass. It's like they're back to bickering like immediately. And he's back to being like, ah, Riddic, you're such a pain in my ass for it. Me not being able to look at you. Yeah.
02:22:15
Speaker
And yeah, so it it creates like a a very interesting like a different dynamic with that whole story and you can tell that like he kind of really wants death, you know Which like yearning for death also is another kind of interesting kind of yeah idea that it's like like yeah I like how it's this movie is using the Greek myth as like a jumping-off point and it's like it's hitting all the beats, but it's kind of re-textilizing them at the same time Yeah, it's playing around with it It's doing interesting stuff with it. By the way, just speaking of this guy who wants Death. Yeah. Like maybe the first depiction of death as a sexy goth chick. Right. Like, like we see this in Sandman. It be the first because I was like, that must be in a silent movie somewhere.
02:22:58
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. But like also, you know, it seems a little novel, you know? Sure. I don't know. i feel like the kind of look of a goth woman probably didn't exist much longer before the 50s in France, you know? So I don't know.
02:23:16
Speaker
Yeah. Iconic. Yeah. Either way. The actual end of the movie, Orpheus and Hortobees go back to the underworld. Orpheus is like professes his love for death. But then she's like, no, we we we we can't be together.
02:23:28
Speaker
You belong back alive with Eurydice. And so she kind of like time travels him back, reverses Hortobees. We like see the same footage of him walking through the afterlife reversed and like sends him and Yerisie back to like kind of a scene that happened earlier in the movie.
02:23:46
Speaker
And they, and they both seem very happy in that moment. And it's like, that's the last we see it. We see Orpheus and Yerisie happy together the last time on screen. And then for sort of like breaking the rules, death and Hordeobees are arrested by this sort of motorcycle, whatever, henchman. Dream, dream, dream death henchman.
02:24:07
Speaker
And this other sort of recent conscript, the guy who dies at the beginning and is sort of like throughout the movie is kind of being taught, taught the ropes of how to be a like ghost, ah ghost person. He's like, what happened when you get arrested in the afterlife?
02:24:22
Speaker
And one of them says, nothing good. And he's like, it's never it's like, it's never anything good. And they say, here worse than anywhere else. And then they're both herpes and death are like led off.
02:24:34
Speaker
To parts unknown, like wherever you go in the afterlife when you do something bad and they take you away. Yeah. I mean, like in Grim Fandango, you maybe just get turned into a piece of furniture or something yeah like that. Right. Like what happens to you then? Nothing good. But like that's as that's as much as we know.
02:24:51
Speaker
So it's like the end of this is like wholly different from the myth. Like Orbeez and Radice end up together happily. Meanwhile, like death and her her chauffeur are arrested by the the ghost cops.
02:25:06
Speaker
The idea of like these two dead people who were like, like, I've had my shot at life. I belong here in the afterlife now. are Who are both in love with living people, but are like, no, no, no, no. They're still alive. They deserve to be alive together.
02:25:21
Speaker
We're going to sacrifice our own sort of standing in the afterlife for that for that to happen. Mm-hmm. And then they're like, all right, here we Maybe like go to hell, basically. Yeah, like wherever we go now, we don't know. But like we accept it.
02:25:34
Speaker
Yeah. God, what a picture. I love this movie. Yeah, just on this movie rules. Unabashedly, like, I don't know if we're wrapping up soon. But like this is this was my favorite movie. This is my favorite movie too. Nice. Nice to see that we're in agreement. Our favorite section was, I have a couple little small things to say about this. Yeah. One.
02:25:55
Speaker
I think it's very funny at the beginning that like there's a place called the Poets Cafe and then like people are constantly like getting into fist fights there. Yeah, there's like always... It's like a it's kind of silly irony, I guess, of like, you know, poets and then everyone's like... yeah Yeah, this movie is sort of somewhat satirical, like viewpoint on poets, I think is very funny. I don't know if I have the full understanding of like the context of like how poetry was being viewed in France in the 50s. I mean, Jean Cocteau was also a poet.
02:26:24
Speaker
So it's like he's coming from... Meta. Right. He's... I think any sort of like criticism or sort of making fun of French poets in this movie is very much him being like, fucking poets. Because this movie does feel like the poet community is like annoying. I mean, and yeah, this is like the This is like the era of poets beginning. I do i think I wrote down my notes, like, ah, to be a French poet in the 50s. Right. Sitting around a cafe talking about their dumb nudist poems of blank books. But that's great. It's genius. Yeah. Watching watching this movie made me want to put a beret on. yeah and they get into so many fights. We skipped over the entire part where they like they like a mob of them shows up to Orpheus's house and they murder him.
02:27:05
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to mention that part specifically because of the soundtrack over it. Right, like it's all like jazz drums. It's like a Birdman, you know? It's so good. like Birdman jazz drums start playing and then we see like three cars full of like angry like French poets.
02:27:21
Speaker
All of them like, Orpheus, we hate you. And he's like throwing rocks at him. Incredible, incredible. Yeah, a poet lynching. Yeah. A poet lynching to jazz drums. As they're like climbing over his wall. Yeah.
02:27:35
Speaker
Okay, two other funny things. There's one of the shots of him moving through the mirror. He's like, he can't get in and he's stuck. And he's putting his hands up like in front of this fake glass. He's doing mine mirror stuff. A French guy pretending that there is wall in front of him. But then it cuts to a close-up and he puts his face against it, which clearly is a piece of glass. Yeah. There's another thing where you're like, see what they're doing here. And then the next shot, they switch it. So you're like, oh, wait, was that? Yeah. No. But I just love him being a mime. was so funny. Of course. This movie could not get more French.
02:28:10
Speaker
There's that whole scene where he's chasing after death, like through the streets. And he passes by just like a couple making out. he's like, have you seen a person? Never mind. Like, yeah they're busy. Yeah. Oh, man. There's a point where Eurydice... gets, like, mobbed by fangirls who are like, Orpheus, the famous poet, like, signar sign our book. And he's like, oh, God, again.
02:28:32
Speaker
i feel like I need to mention this anytime anything like it comes up. But there's a point where Eurydice is trying to tell Orpheus that she's pregnant. And ah so she's, like, knitting, like, baby socks. Oh, yeah. And then she drops one on the ground and he steps on it. It is on-ground baby shoes stepped on. Also, like, he fact she keeps trying to tell him that she's pregnant and he, like, won't listen to her. Yeah, because he's obsessed. This is one other kind of element. He's obsessed like, the the radio broadcast from the afterlife. Like, yeah, there are these, there are these like ah like, strange,
02:29:08
Speaker
i don't know like words that are indecipherable words that are being there their poems yeah another poet who died death death poems yeah and like the person who's doing it who was the one the the the poetry thing who died and he's like i don't even know what i'm doing like yeah i'm just kind of like he's just right like writing like gibberish no he's like writing on instinct right right and orpheus is like this means something But maybe it does, right? I think that, like, he does not know what he's... It's not like he's just, like, fucks it around. He's channeling. He's channeling something. And, like, Orpheus is like, there is some mysterious broadcast happening from the afterlife. Like, what? So cool. So cool. But it's, like, it's simultaneously, like, getting at, I think, a pretty real truth of, like, what the creative process can feel like. of Like, you're channeling something from somewhere else. you You don't even understand. It's just sort of, like...
02:29:58
Speaker
know where this coming from, but I'm writing it down. It's a very big David Lynch thing. This this movie feels very ah influential on Lynch, possibly. I mean, also speaking of Lynch, have I told you about how, like, but I've been kind of thinking about this for a while of, like, because you are not in control of what happens in your dreams. And if you have an idea in a dream and then you're like, that's a great idea.
02:30:20
Speaker
you're basically stealing the idea, but from yourself. yourself you know You're plagiarizing the idea because you didn't like come up with it. You just like witnessed it as if you watched a movie well and then stole it. But it just happened to have come your When we're dreaming, we we create and we perceive our reality simultaneously.
02:30:38
Speaker
It depends if you're like a lucid dreamer or whatever, you know, but like... I'm quoting Inception now is what doing. okay. But um that is, ah this movie feels very influential, I think, on Inception and on Chris Nolan in general. I see a lot of Chris Nolan in this movie. There is someone who become death...
02:30:55
Speaker
There you go. there Precisely. i i can see this movie's influence on on on a lot of modern stuff. Yeah. Even though i think I don't think it gets like necessarily name-checked much. I don't know how well-known this movie is. I mean, it's it's famous in sort of like French artsy movie circles, for sure. Like, it's not ah it's not obscure, I wouldn't say.
02:31:18
Speaker
i I wish this movie was talked about more, I guess. Sure. Yeah. One is super interesting. It's got a lot going on. It's like its technique is really incredible. But also, right, it just it rules. It's super fun. It's very funny.
02:31:31
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I mean, visually dazzling. When we went from 1919, it's 1920. And we kind of noticed this like huge jump in quality of the movies. yeah from the nineteen ten s to the 1920s and it's just like now we're in the 20s now we're in the golden era of silent film and it's just like immediately right out the gate and i feel like now that we're in 1950 and we're seeing this movie it's like we are immediately right out the gate of seeing these kind of famous 50s existentialist french movies you know like and it's just like bam orpheus it's so good yeah
02:32:04
Speaker
I mean, between this and Beauty and the Beast, I i definitely want to track down and watch the rest of Cocteau's filmography, which isn't very long. Like, he was very much a sort of, like, multi-hyphenate artist who he wrote poems, he painted, he, like, did all sorts... Like, film was just one tangent of his just being an artist, which I also think is part of what makes his movies cool, is that they... You can feel that in them, I think, that he's, like...
02:32:30
Speaker
Pulling in a lot of influence and sort of technique from just other artistic mediums, which, you know, film is a a great place to do that because it combines, combines all of them. One of the things I like about making movies is that it's like it, it's all art form simultaneously.
02:32:47
Speaker
You can film a painting and boom, you got a painting in your movie. Both of our favorite is Orpheus. Yeah. But a run for his money. Like, there was there were a couple of quite good movies. I really, really like Sunset Boulevard. I think Sunset Boulevard is a great movie.
02:33:03
Speaker
If it weren't for Orpheus, that would pie that might be my number two pick, I guess. I liked all of these movies. Even though Harvey, I know I've said it. I feel like I was maybe sounding a little harsh on him. Yeah. think I'm the most lukewarm on Cinderella.
02:33:17
Speaker
Yeah, but even Cinderella, like, it's got a lot going for it. Yeah, it does, yeah. A lot of good movies, 1950. Yeah, I'm excited for the, know, what the rest of the decade will bring.
02:33:28
Speaker
And I
Wrap Up and Future Episodes
02:33:29
Speaker
hope you're excited too, listeners, because ah that's the end of the episode. Up next, 1951. So, great thanks for listening to this episode. Follow us online, all that stuff. I hope you enjoyed.
02:33:43
Speaker
And Glenn, I will see you next year. See you next year.