Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
1942 - TCM Pilled
64 Plays1 year ago
1942 was a bad year for humans but a good year for Hollywood! This episode, we discuss John Ford's striking documentation of WWII, Orson Welles' follow-up to Citizen Kane, the origins of the jump scare, witchy comedy, the meaning of life through the lens of talking animals, Lubitsch spy/showbiz satire, and a little movie called Casablanca.
You can watch along with our video version of the episode here on Youtube!
You can check out our social media crap here: http://linktr.ee/1w1y
And you can watch and form your own opinions from our 1942 Films Discussed playlist right here!
See you next year!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Hosts
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to One Week, One Year, podcast where we watch and discuss every year of film history in order, starting in 1895, the dawn of cinema. And this episode is 1942. I'm one of your hosts, Chris Elly. I'm a film projectionist and joining me as always is... I'm Glenn Covell. I'm a filmmaker.
00:00:31
Speaker
He makes movies. Just upload it to YouTube. ah Picnic panic. Don't watch it. ah I made it public. so okay and i just sense It's done its festival run so I figured, you know what?
Glenn's Film & Award Experience
00:00:46
Speaker
let the world see it the world needs to see picnic panic i just saw it pop up in my subscriptions box today i said oh glenn has released released his his ah silent Opus. Is it your opus? My four minute silent opus. Would you call it your opus? I would not call it my opus. No, it's not quite ah opus maybe, but you know. If it was a bunch of moving around shapes on the screen, then you might call it your opus. True. True. That's a ah check back on one of the early 20s episode for that reference.
00:01:23
Speaker
ah Well yeah, you know, more podcasts, old movies and stuff. i ah Subscribe if you want, I don't know. I usually say that at the end, but you you can hear it before three hours from now. You can do it at any time, it doesn't matter. Yeah, our little calls to action. Sure. I'm calling you to action, Glenn. My action is, ah how's it how are you doing? Tell me how you're doing.
00:01:52
Speaker
I'm doing okay, I suppose, as well as to be expected. yeah I went to a very a very fancy like showbiz awards thing ah this week, so that was fun. what's What was your outfit? Did you get a picture of your outfit? I didn't really get a good picture of my outfit, which I realized is ah maybe a mistake because there was a step of repeat there.
00:02:14
Speaker
but um I think I was dressed very, very nicely. I was complimented on my outfit, so that is good. Oh, by Steven Spielberg. No, he wasn't there. Not this year. Who was there? Name names, drop names. Name names. Boy, ah Robert Eggers was there. Ariana Grande was there. ah grand day Robert Pattinson was there. Michelle Yeoh was there. ah is Yeah, well a whole bunch of. Ray Fiennes was there. Isabella Rossellini was there.
00:02:43
Speaker
Wow. Thank you to um thank you to the production code for and and all of the ah the evils that came with it for bringing that aren't isn't your organization kind of the ah the national border my organization. They're like the descendant of the Hays Code. I think it did start in some capacity as I don't think it was associated with the Hays Code, but it was a like similar kind of organization to that. And I think it had basically has absolutely no bearing on what it does now, which is just a bunch of New Yorkers who like to watch movies.
00:03:23
Speaker
Which you know i i in in that capacity, I'm like, great, glad to be a part of it. Who would have thought that a bunch of New Yorkers who like to watch movies would have started with ah some Catholics who wanted no Tommy Guns in
Old Shows & Museum Trips
00:03:39
Speaker
movies? And ah who would have thought that comedians in cars getting coffee would have started with a little show called Seinfeld?
00:03:49
Speaker
Uh, I don't know, uh, those things associated in my mind, but maybe it wasn't, uh, wasn't that much of a connection. Uh, anyway, I'm, uh, here in DC, getting established over here. And I just, um, ran a 35 print of the adventures of Prince Ahmed, uh, with a live score by the, uh, anvil orchestra, which was very, very cool fun. Super fun. I'm about to go see the brutalist on 70 this weekend. oh So i mean no what do you think? Have you seen it?
00:04:20
Speaker
I have yeah not on 70 millimeter. Unfortunately, I may have to go back and see it again. Yeah, it's a lot of millimeters. It's twice as many. Yeah. But yeah, just doing doing film stuff. um I'm trying to see what museums are ah possible in to to visit in my spare time here ah that aren't the one that I work at. What museums are possible?
00:04:45
Speaker
I made, um it's one of the most me things that I could do, but ah i spent I sat down for like three hours and made a Google Doc of every temporary exhibit at every museum in the city, ordered by date that they close, ah so that I can knock out all of the museums that I'd like to see.
00:05:07
Speaker
uh in order of being able to see every possible thing that i can and then i've got them like plotted out by days that they're open and hours that they're doing this and uh it's nuts uh haven't actually put it into practice yet but that's been my life ah you've done the hard part already now it seems like you get to just do the the fun part and go to a bunch of museums and you know in maybe important Maybe if I'm really being honest with myself, the fun part is making lists and the hard part is actually doing things. i feel I feel the opposite. I love to do things, don't get me wrong, but it is so much harder to do things than it is to make lists about doing things, at least in my experience.
00:05:51
Speaker
and fair yeah hi Whenever i'm I'm in a situation where I ought to be doing something, I tend to make a list instead. fifty ah Anyway, I mean hey at least it's doing something. I feel like whenever I'm in a situation of wanting to do something I just do nothing and so and it puts me in the same league as as ah Old Saint Nick so I would share the space with him. and How often do you check the list though? I've checked it maybe ah three or four times so far. how see You're way ahead of Old Saint Nick then.
00:06:26
Speaker
You got a beat. Famous list havers are probably what? Santa, Nixon and Schindler, if I'm famous list havers. Yeah, I think those are the three, the big three.
1942 Historical Context
00:06:43
Speaker
This is a podcast about movies, ah but it is tell.
00:06:48
Speaker
But it's also a podcast about movie history. And you know what else happened in history? World War II. Let's hear about it from Glenn in the News of the Year. Oh, boy. i i Word of warning to everyone listening, this episode is an Oops All Bummers news segment. So here we go. The News of the Year, 1942.
00:07:11
Speaker
The United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, China, and 22 other governments signed the Declaration by United Nations, agreeing to fight as allies against the Axis powers. President Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066, leading to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans. Nazi Germany systematically murders over 2 million Jewish citizens across Europe, the fastest rate of genocide in history.
00:07:37
Speaker
The Imperial Japanese Army forces thousands of POWs in the Philippines to march 65 miles. Many do not survive. Raynard Hijick, a primary architect of the Holocaust, is successfully killed by Czech operatives in Prague. U.S. Marines land on the island of Guadalcanal, the first American offensive of the war. um Glenn Miller and his orchestra are awarded the first ever gold record for selling one million copies of Chattanooga Choo Choo.
00:08:04
Speaker
The Nazis attack but fail to capture the Soviet city of Stalingrad. Over a million are killed in the fighting, the most of any battle in human history. The first self-sustaining nuclear reaction takes place in a secret lab under the University of Chicago as part of the mysterious Manhattan Project. And that is the news of 1942, which is arguably one of if not the worst year of human history. So fun.
The Battle of Midway
00:08:32
Speaker
Anyway, they also made some movies that year. Yeah, isn't that fun? Not to completely kill the mood for this entire, you know, supposedly light hearted film history podcast that we're doing. We never claimed to be light hearted. Not this one. I mean, the rest of the episode hopefully would be a little more light. Let's lighten our hearts with ah the Battle of Midway.
00:09:01
Speaker
a in our one week one reel. Yeah, doing I guess just one short this this episode. Yeah, I guess so because I did not watch the Frank Capra one and um arguably not that short. So and also, yeah, it's almost an hour. But the Battle of Midway ah is a very good docu like short documentary um ah from our buddy, John Ford.
00:09:32
Speaker
who happened to be on site ah at the insight at the beginning of this battle. Yeah, well, he was he was one of a few like Hollywood directors who got ah recruited to like work work for the the the army and Navy and, you know, U.S. armed forces to to make propaganda movies and another set sort of like recruitment and training films and things. um But I feel like John Ford being the guy that he was was just like, I'm just going to make a documentary. Like, I'm not going to like this is ostensibly a propaganda movie, but it it is mostly just
00:10:09
Speaker
footage of a battle happening that he is in the middle of while he's shooting. And it's kind of bananas to see. It is. I was shocked watching this movie at like the viscerality of the real life like yeah violence that was there. You're like you're not seeing anything gruesome, but like it's yeah it's harrowing.
00:10:30
Speaker
ah Like there's explosions and attacks and planes diving by and fire. It's ah it's a lot. But it's like he's so physically so close to the explosions filming them that like the shockwave, I think, or some or maybe just like the rough handling of the camera is like knocking the film out of alignment in the camera, which is like such a crazy effect. I thought it was a mistake at the beginning. And then I realized it was only happening during the explosions. Well, I mean, it is a mistake. Like that's not supposed to happen. That's just like the camera is like ceasing to function because it's like being rattled by so much force. Right. I was saying I was I guess I was saying I was thinking that it was like a mistake in the scanning of the film, but like it probably right probably is not. It probably was. Yeah. That. Yeah, that's crazy. ah I this movie also is in color. ah It looks that is. huge It looks like that's like really makes it really stand out from. Yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
a lot of I guess there are those you know like Netflix documentaries that are like we compiled all the color footage world war two in this you know 28 season docu-series but it is it's like it's pretty nuts to see like color 60 millimeter footage of World War II, like it it makes it feel much more immediate than I'm used to seeing. Totally. and Totally. Yeah. Like I some thoughts that came through while I was watching this were thinking about like the the recency of it. Right. I think that um as I was a kid, World War II felt
00:12:09
Speaker
recent and urgent in a way, because when I was a little kid, a lot of people who fought in World War II were still alive. Now, that is not the case. ah there are There are relatively few people who fought in World War II who are still alive. So in a way, I feel like, you know, maybe this is just my perception, but in a way, it feels like it's drifted into history just slightly.
00:12:32
Speaker
I'm used to looking at this stuff in the context of, like, we're we started in the 1890s, we started in the Victorian era, and now we're here, right? And then I'm seeing these, like, oh, yes, that's a B-17 Superfortress. It's a giant and metal object ah that I can go to, a you know, a museum and look at it and go, like, whoa.
00:12:56
Speaker
That's that's a whole thing that was made, you know, recently. um And yes, like you were saying, seeing it in color really gives it this like present immediate feeling that you are just like not used to with a lot of World War Two footage. Yeah, just like seeing like people sunburns, you know, all of a sudden you're just like, oh, damn, these are like real people that lived and died and were like a part of this thing.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, like the the the you know, the the the red of the fire mixing with the smoke is just like it it really adds a lot. Well, I mean, unsurprisingly, I feel like it's kind of maybe a little silly to be like it's in color looks more real, but like. um Yeah, I mean, I think also the fact that this is like so clearly just being filmed by someone who's like standing in the middle of this stuff. Yeah. That it's like not being shot from far away, that it's like John Ford was just like on a platform filming this stuff, like as planes were dive bombing around him and things. it's Well, that's the thing, right? is this It's like, you know, I've seen movie footage like this, but it does not.
00:14:10
Speaker
Compare honestly to the reality of what is happening in this footage it like stuff that is constructed doesn't feel um Like this where I think that like because this is so like Verite, you know, it is so like in it it it it It's like the person holding this camera could just explode any second, right? Like you know that like while you're watching this the people filming it were like ah literally in a battle, literally like they could have died any second, just like any of the soldiers around them. and like that It really adds so much to the footage. I was really struck by this. I was also thinking about how um
00:14:57
Speaker
you know I'm not the most patriotic person around, but like you know when I was like seeing like a lot of the stuff of ah of ah the boys fighting fighting for the good fight, I was like, yeah, like look, it's an actual uncomplicated ah fight that ah this is is not ah not as ambiguous as every other war that the United States has been in.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, in in that in that sense, good old World War II propaganda. like It's doing its job well. But it's like it doesn't feel purely prop propagandistic. It does feel like a genuine just like document of a thing that happened.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would say that the only thing that feels propagandistic about it is that it is like probably focusing on like the terror and the valor. And there is they probably caught a lot of footage of like suffering and death and dismemberment. Yeah. That they did not put in the movie. Right. They're still kind of surprised that this is like a recruitment tool, right? This is to be like, hey,
00:16:03
Speaker
Hey kids, like go go join the fight in the Pacific. It's like this does not look fun. This looks terrifying. And yeah so, you know, I appreciate the the level to which John Ford at least is. You know, I'm sure he is sugarcoating it somewhat like I'm I'm sure like the raw film reels probably have some nasty or stuff on them, but like.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, they're like picking guys out of the ocean who had been floating without food and water for 13 days and they're just like looking okay. They're just like smiling and walking around. It's like, I don't know about that.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, i don' and like I don't know. Who knows? Maybe that was staged? i Who's to say? um Not me. But yeah, I think apparently John Ford had to like smuggle some of this footage like back to the States. um I forget why. there's there' is in the There's a Netflix documentary about him and Frank Capra and William Myler and the other directors who went off to make.
00:17:02
Speaker
World War II films that talks about that a little bit. So go watch that if you want to know more. But yeah, it's um John Ford good at his job. Who knew? Yeah. ah one One small note about this is that um you know as As fighter pilots do, they like put down like ah a notch or or like a little painted thing on their plane for every other one that they shot down. ah and They've got like Japanese flags on the plane, noting how many Japanese ah planes that they shot down. and the The announcer goes, seven meatballs on his plane. ah Oh my God, I missed that.
00:17:42
Speaker
Which is like so funny. yeah i It's one of those things where I'm like, i i'm I'm sure that's intended in a very derogatory manner, but it's so silly that it also is like hard to ah take it that seriously, I guess.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, maybe there would be very funny if they were Italian planes. i'll Right. much That would be that wouldn't match up with the flag as well. But ah right. Yeah. Right. No, if if they were shooting down Italian planes and they put meatballs on their like actual meatballs on their little pepperonis.
00:18:28
Speaker
um Yeah, ah good good short. um yeah But since that's our only one, I guess it's time to go on to our feature presentation. And now we're pleased to bring you our feature presentation.
The Magnificent Ambersons
00:18:44
Speaker
I kind of feel like we should start with Magnificent Ambersons, because that one that's when I watched the furthest amount of time ago. So I don't remember it as well as the others. And I also took the least amount of notes. So I feel like I want to get that one out.
00:18:59
Speaker
You know, sure's still if if I wait 30 more minutes, it's not going to be as fresh. um i Well, I watched it this morning, so it's like a good great. Then, you know, come out for both both ends. I feel like it's also like, you know, last episode was a big sis and Cain talk. And this is like, man, what's Orson Welles going to do next? He's going to make another movie. What's this going to be? And it's like, you know,
00:19:26
Speaker
did is not the the revered classic that Citizen Kane is for various reasons. It's a good movie, I think. I think so too. I like i i can see why it is not held in the same you know in the same league as Citizen Kane.
00:19:43
Speaker
ah This is a ah novel adaptation. And once again, it feels like it. ah But it probably doesn't feel like it as much as it otherwise would have, because this movie was supposed to be a lot longer than it than it ended up being. ah It's a and relatively brisk for a movie like this hour and a half, ah where I think it was like closer to two and a half or three hours originally. I don't know if it was up to three. I think they caught about 45 minutes to an hour. OK. Out of it.
00:20:14
Speaker
um And when I say they, I mean. RKO. The big wigs RKO sort of behind Orson Welles' back while he was out of the country shooting a different movie. um Gave it to an editor and we're like, hey.
00:20:30
Speaker
cut a bunch, cut an hour out of this and also we're going to shoot a completely new ending that is much more positive and upbeat than the ending that Orson Welles wanted for it. And so Orson Welles kind of disowned this movie and was like, ah, they ruined it. I still think it's quite good. um And I do wonder what, because like the the missing footage is just gone. Like no one has ever been able to find it. It was probably destroyed.
00:20:58
Speaker
I mean, ah ah this this ah this editor, I think, did a relatively good job, I suppose, because unlike, you know, I think a a comparison with this maybe feels like an Eric von Strohein movie. And unlike an Eric von Strohein movie, it doesn't feel like there's anything like conspicuously missing. Right. It doesn't make a huge leap to like. And it's like, wow, there's clearly something missing there.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, i I mean, I also think, right, there's this sort of thing where it's like, oh, man, that, you know, the the lost version of this movie, what what could it have been? I think even maybe those was extra, you know, 45 minutes, 45 to 50 minutes, like really made the movie and like really put it over the top. I think I think this was always a little bit kind of going to suffer in relation to Citizen Kane, like in comparison to sophomore slump.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, I just I feel like just the the kind of the the narrative of this movie doesn't feel quite as and impactful as Citizen Kane. It's a little less important, I guess. It's a little less like. um you know this movie has things on its mind but I think that it is maybe a little less like politically like vigorous as Citizen Kane and it is it's not trying to do all the formal wackiness of Citizen Kane though there were some like
00:22:21
Speaker
some slight overlaps that that I noticed, um such as, ah especially in the beginning, this this sort of um like testimonial style storytelling, ah like talking about the Ambersons and ah as viewed through all of the townspeople who kind of hate them.
00:22:40
Speaker
And then it's also um ah not very fond of rich people, ah which, um yeah, which it's funny. It's like when I I went through this arc, like I was like Magnificent Ambersons don't know anything about it. Going to watch this movie. And then I realized that like the Ambersons are like a super wealthy family. ah And I'm like, oh, that's very different from what's going on in Citizen Kane. That's a 180. They call it to call them Magnificent.
00:23:11
Speaker
And ah and then I realized that like everyone hates them. And it's the the story is all about this kid who absolutely sucks. And like and I was like, all right, maybe this is kind of an ironic title. Yeah, it does feel like it has a lot of kind of thematic crossover. This isn't about like wealth and America and like. You know what what that does to people and sort of like the the psychology of these like wealthy powerful like dynastic uh american families um it does feel like the ampersons are sort of um a bit of a sort of composite of a lot of different probably real life uh families but it's mostly ah about like their decline they're sort of like old ways that are sort of losing importance in like a more modern age like there's definitely this sort of like
00:24:11
Speaker
They have all their old-fashioned ways about them, and they're kind of being supplanted by these like new newer money people that are coming up through like technology and you know building automobiles. And they're like, what? Automobiles would never be a thing. Thankfully, unlike unlike other period movies, ah when this one goes like, what? Automobiles aren't going to be a thing. It doesn't rub me the wrong way, like they like in every other movie that does that.
00:24:40
Speaker
Because I think it isn't treated as much just like a kind of an offhand joke. It's like a pretty kind of integral to the plot of the movie is the fact that like these these people like can't see, you know, the future coming at them kind of You know, you talk about like these like duck declining dynastic ah American rich families and it makes me think of um Gone with the Wind, right? And how this is like the other side of that coin maybe of like this movie has an ambivalence toward progress. ah But it doesn't just because it has some negative things to say about like the automobile and ah the world that it ushers in.
00:25:22
Speaker
Uh, doesn't mean that it has any kind of, any kind of like love for the bad things about the way things used to be. Right. Yeah. It doesn't feel, uh, yeah, I don't feel like this movie really ever felt that nostalgic. Like there's scenes in it that are sort of like, Oh, olden times when we, you know, had horses and buggies and like played in the snow. Yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
but it yeah it doesn't it definitely doesn't feel kind of wistful the way that something like Gone with the Wind does it it is much more kind of like yeah it does feel a little it doesn't feel that i guess um like it's taking a hard stance sort of like olden times were worse and it also doesn't necessarily feel like it's it's that sort of like forward looking either because it is sort of like the automobiles are coming but it's like look at all of the things that the automobile kind of destroyed by its existence and also just like they're super dangerous they kill people all the time yeah
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, look there's like an Oppenheimer moment in this, which honestly i I respect because like I feel the same way about cars, you know, it's like ah this open scary this Oppenheimer moment of ah the Joseph Cotton character, ah like who is the, and I don't know, not the soul inventor, but like the kind of inventor. Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker
of cars in this as a function in this story. And he's like, yeah, I don't know if I did the right thing or not, but it's kind of happening now, so I can't really do anything about it. And I think maybe. Yeah. So our main character is George, who is this kind of like. Real just like piece of shit. Yeah, very in in incredibly spoiled, entitled, rich kid.
00:27:17
Speaker
the The movie begins with him as like ah like one of those rich children who has like the curly locks.
00:27:28
Speaker
Which makes me wonder, almost sort of like was that as much of a cartoon cliche? Or is it is it simply the fact that Simpsons writers love old movies? And they're just like, put the kid from Ambruson's in it.
00:27:40
Speaker
It definitely yeah i i do kind of wonder ah like i feel like this movie is by already playing with some you know pre-existing iconography i right but it it does it does kind of feel like one of those things where it's like the reason why that images is. is we recognize is because of all the ways that people have copied this movie. Sometimes I wonder how different our perception of a culture of classic culture would be if we hadn't seen The Simpsons. It it really like puts a filter on on everything that we are watching. The thing from the Simpsons. Yeah.
00:28:22
Speaker
But anyway, it does happen a lot. I feel like watching old movies. I am just like, oh yeah, that's a thing from the Simpsons. We're in the money. They love. I need 33 of those Simpsons writers. But like, you know, you talk about like the decline of these families and like, you know, it's this.
00:28:40
Speaker
this family tree that has a lot of people in this previous generation, right? And ah there's aunts and uncles and you know various people who are all in this kind of like upper crust society of the late 1800s. And then there's like an old woman at the beginning who's like basically predicting their downfall. And then the narrator Orson Welles goes like,
00:29:07
Speaker
The only thing she got wrong is that they only had one son, right? And so it's like this this huge tree that's like coming down into this one person and it almost feels like it's like a withering of their family into like metaphorically as like like yes he's like this spoiled kid but he is like he's he's a spoiled rich kid but he is also the result of like the crumbling of all of this like rich structure there's also right ah during that sort of early section everyone is you know being terrorized by this little hellion child
00:29:47
Speaker
um And they're all like, one day you're going to get your comeuppance. And so that's sort of like planting a seed. You cue the rest of the movie. Right. Planting a seed that you're like, all right, I guess the rest of this movie is, but we're going to see how he gets his comeuppance. And um then, I mean, a bunch of a bunch of stuff happens. Right. But it's like through all of that stuff, you know, we we start to get very, i at least me as an audience member, start to get very ah engaged and sort of like, I want to see what happens with with this story, with these people.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, we're seeing like member members of Jerry's family are are dying and that sort of like, we're you know, we're seeing this sort of slow crumbling of of the family and sort of and his life. And then it you know reaches reaches the point where he has sort of.
00:30:31
Speaker
lost pretty much everyone in his life that he cares about or that cares about him. Like all of his relationships have been kind of burnt around him and he's sort of sitting in the dark alone, having like either lost or pushed away everyone that he knows.
00:30:49
Speaker
Yeah. And the Orson Welles narrator comes back and it's like, finally, he's got his comeuppance, but there is no one around to even enjoy it anymore. Like everyone who everyone who is even like waiting to see this guy's downfall is dead. Like that's how little he matters at this point. It's it's a bleak movie. It's weird that I'm like, oh, what a way to end a movie. And then there's like 20 minutes left. And I'm like, no, OK, oh.
00:31:16
Speaker
You think all of that stuff afterward was RKO? I think at least most of it was. I think had the movie ended there, I would have been like, God damn, what a movie this is. And I think the extra stuff after that, I'm like, it's all right.
00:31:31
Speaker
That's interesting. I guess I never really noticed the end. Just because that scene left me with such like such a feeling. I was like, oh, holy shit. like yeah Damn, I felt that. ah it's It's almost like Scarlett O'Hara's low moment, right? But instead of like going like, by God, whatever she says, it's it's ah it's ah such a classic line. and I don't remember what she says. But it's like, come on. by god i'm gonna do it i'm gonna build myself back up i'm never gonna go hungry again i think is what she says and uh as as god as my does she say is that as god as my witness something like that yeah attack us in the comments
00:32:11
Speaker
he Yeah, he just he just falls apart and everything. I mean, at least I think the next 20 minutes is just things continuing to like suck for him, ah which right it's really it's the last like minute that is like really feels out of place. Mm hmm.
00:32:27
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, for a movie that's so negative and like it's for a movie that is about like a main character, so detestable, ah I was surprised at how I don't know. In a way, it feels a little breezy. You know, it feels like it's kind of fun. It's kind of a romp. Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker
Like there's it is it is pretty breezy and fun. I thought yeah, there's fun stuff that happens in the movie there's funny stuff that happens in the movie and like You know, I think even a movie where you're just taking glee in watching ah this ah ah detestable main character suffer and suffer like that is a kind of movie that is like can be good but like yeah this is not even that necessarily like he never The movie never really has much sympathy for him, but also it's not like, I think it would not feel as watchable if um it were just piling on him the entire movie. like look at Like, look at how he suffers, let's all enjoy his suffering. Not that he doesn't necessarily deserve it or whatever, but like, you know, it's an interesting choice, I guess. it but It's surprisingly fun for kind of how
00:33:46
Speaker
I guess dark or sort of negative, the sort of basic narrative of of it it of it is. There's also like a lot of it is just kind of like rich people doing rich people stuff and kind of ah either learning a lesson from it or more often not learning a lesson from it.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah, also just like as per Orson Welles, it's like it's very, very technically accomplished. Looks great. It's got some like really, just like really incredible imagery in it. I think in particular, there's like a shot of George looking out a window and it's like the shot is looking out the window, but we see his face in the reflection like, yeah, sort of large, like sort of reflected over.
00:34:25
Speaker
Like people leaving the house and it's like dang you saw this on film, right? I did Yeah, I got to see this in a theater on film, which is is a ah nice rarity. I think black and white Academy ratio 35 prints look great ah Because it's using all of the light from the projector um rather than right for a flat movie where it's using only some of the light and so and I find them to really shine in a theater when you're when you're watching something that's that's ah for the Academy ratio. and And black and white footage, I think, looks great on Blu-ray and it looks great on film as well. Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
um I saw at the Roxy Hotel theater um in New York, which ah is like in the basement of an Art Deco hotel. So it's like it was it felt like a very period appropriate place to see the movie also. In fact, it was on film. um I may have gotten dressed up a little bit.
00:35:26
Speaker
to try to get the full the full ah the full effect. you know I really wanted to see this as as much in context as I possibly could. This is like ah like ah the gentle minions fruit for you. Yeah, that i was i was I was really going method with with my viewing of this movie.
00:35:43
Speaker
a method watcher. ah This movie had ah ah Orson Welles narrating it at like very sporadic points, but um the end of the movie is like him narrating, it's like, this is the end. The movie was shot by this guy and sound and like sets created by this guy. And like, like he was reading out the credits, which, you know, maybe is in some way like a callback to um his radio stuff. He originally adapted this for the radio, but it also felt like a really in the in the radio version.
00:36:20
Speaker
ah But like it also just felt like a really, ah I don't know, like a really respectful way of like tipping your hat to your yeah crew. I do really like how much right he had his like Mercury, right? He had like the Mercury Theater, which is like his his stage production. And then he had the Mercury Theater on the air, which was the radio stuff. And then when he went to film, he was like the.
00:36:41
Speaker
this is This is a Mercury production. like he was still like The brand was still there, but it was like the same kind of like ah a crew of actors that he that he brought with him.
00:36:52
Speaker
yeah Um, that I think is just very cool that he was like, no, we're like, we're a, we're all a team. we We're all in, you know, this is like our, our thing. There's a, there's a great clip of, uh, Orson Welles that goes around sometimes of someone asking him, uh, uh, in an interview, probably in the seventies or something like that. Um, uh, whether.
00:37:12
Speaker
he ever feels like he cast the wrong actor for the job. And he was like, Oh, I do it all the time. Or like, whether you he like, he he would cast like a friend instead of an actor, or like the the right actor for the job. He's like, Oh, I do that all the time. Like, but he was like, he was like, being good to your friends is more important than being a great artist, quote unquote. ah Which is like, that's awesome. That's so cool. That is. I mean, like i I have a lot of respect for that. It is funny how that is. I think he might be the only like big name director I've ever heard say something like that. I feel like most people I have so often seen the opposite.
00:37:51
Speaker
said and like emphatically being like, do not cast your friends and things like find the best possible actor you can. Yeah, which I I by and large do agree with. I think that is more in response to people who cast their friends who aren't actors and things um as opposed like if you're if you're friends with a good actor, cast them and things like why wouldn't you write?
00:38:13
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I, I, I, I really liked that end credits thing. It feels, it does feel very kind of respectful towards, towards his cast and crew. And I, I just also feel like the novelty of it is really cool too. The fact that it's like narrated credits and it's like each person gets kind of their own little.
00:38:33
Speaker
kind of spotlight a little bit. Yeah. And then, and the end yeah, it ends with like, and I'm your narrator. My name is Orson Welles. I also directed and wrote the picture. Yeah. he never He never shows his own face, though. It does kind of feel like he's like, I was all over that last one. I'm just going to narrate this. one Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough.
00:38:54
Speaker
There was like a part in the movie where it was talking about how like ah yo when you're when you're in your early 20s, you're a dum-dum. You don't know what you know and what you don't know. And then like it's only when you're in your 40s when you realize what a dum-dum you were in your early 20s. And it's like this is a movie being made by a guy that's like maybe 26, 25 at this point. yeah I don't think I see a lot of, I don't know if you talked about this in the Citizen Kane episode, I feel like watching Ambersons though I was really struck by how much I think I see Spielberg's kind of visual style in these early Orson Welles things. Interesting. The deep focus I think is something that's been pointed out by a lot of other people that Spielberg likes deep focus.
00:39:45
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. And just like the the way the camera moves, the sort of the the feeling where it it it it's using the full frame. And it's using as many tools as possible. And it just feels very, I don't know, robust. I can't think of a better, pretty word to describe it than that. But um yeah, I could i can definitely see how I mean, I think Orson Welles is one of the guys that Spielberg cites as like along with John Ford and a bunch of other people is like but one of the guys that he like kind of learned from early on watching stuff. And and Orson Welles learned from John Ford, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah, John Ford was like, everybody was just like, oh, yeah, this guy's great.
Cat People Analysis
00:40:26
Speaker
Also of note, unless do do we have anything else to say about Magnificent Ambersons? I don't, but I've got a segue unless you've got another you've got a oh unless you've got a segue also. i see I do have a segue. I wonder if they're the same segue or different segues. Well, you said also of note, so I don't know if but also about Magnificent Ambersons is the sets.
00:40:49
Speaker
Oh, which are very elaborate and very nice. And they I guess they were so so good that that in addition to the fact that there was a war on and there there was a sort of surplus of set building materials, they were reused in multiple other films, including and another 1942 film, Cat People. Cat People. Yeah. um You had never seen this before, right?
00:41:15
Speaker
No. Yeah. I saw this in college and it was one of one of a bunch of movies I saw in college with like next to no um context for like it was just we like this is what we're watching in class today and I hadn't heard of it. I think I might have like heard of it like in passing, but I didn't really know anything about it. um And I was I was very impressed with it seat in college. I think I was slightly less impressed with it upon rewatch.
00:41:41
Speaker
just because it's sort of like, I've seen it before, it didn't quite have the same level of like, oh my God, what what is this thing? right But still, I think this is a very cool movie, even if it isn't perfect. Yeah. Yeah. This is a movie about a, ah I mean, there's a lot of parallels between this and The Wolf Man, which we watched for the last episode. And it is like, boy, howdy. Is this a better movie than The Wolf Man? ah Definitely. Yeah.
00:42:07
Speaker
it's It's, I mean, in a way it's coming from like, you know, it it is the feminine answer to the masculine Wolfman. Right. Yeah. Which ah which is ah quite interesting. And I think it's also it's horror is much more effective. Like the Wolfman is not scary at all. And it's it's just can't be fun. And this like actually has some like really well constructed like scenes of tension. This has genuine scares, I think. And I think there are I think the the pool scene in particular, which is like very famous, I think is genuinely like a ah scary scene.
00:42:43
Speaker
And it is it's just like shots of water reflecting off a pool and sound like it's it's all of the scares and all the tension. This movie came out of like really good editing, really good lighting and really good sound design, I think. Yeah, and light performance, too. But like it is it's like the filmmaking itself feels like the star of this movie.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. the the The really like contrasty lighting in some scenes, like some of the scary scenes like ah like where um where they're they're chasing each other down the the alleyway and then she gets in the bus and everything. Very, very cool. the the I didn't know that the pool scene was famous, but that really checks out because like I was like, oh, I guess um it follows was basically just like riffing on this. Oh, dang, I haven't seen it follows still somehow. I'll probably notice that even more now than I would have. Yeah, it follows is very, very good. But like there's like a climactic with um with very similar vibes, like a climactic horror scene where people are.
00:43:51
Speaker
Sitting in the middle of a pool in order to stay like of an indoor pool in order to stay ah Away away from like a potential threat on the outside of the pool. Yeah, I mean that that happens in this movie I I do kind of like comparisons to the Wolfman because i I think this works in so many ways that that one doesn't I think this this movie is incredibly atmospheric and It's also very restrained but probably for out of necessity. but yeah But it's like it feels like this movie was like fairly low budget for when it was made. So this movie is directed by Jacques Tournier, a French director who has directed a bunch of other good stuff. But it feels like a kind of the kind of auteur of this movie is the producer Val Luton in 1942 was put in charge of RKO started a like horror division. They're like,
00:44:46
Speaker
Val Luton, you're in charge of making horror movies for RKO. You're gonna get like this amount of money for each one. um And we're gonna give you the titles. So they just gave them the title of Cat People. We're like, go whatever you wanna do with Cat People, that but it has to be called Cat People.
00:45:02
Speaker
And Val Luton was a writer, and so he I think he either wrote or had already written a story about sort of like spooky, like, you know, jaguar people or whatever. I think yeah he also produced ah a movie in 43 called The Leopard Man. So he's he's got a real sort of like, you know, cats are scary thing going on.
00:45:24
Speaker
ah huh This is also, by the way, the anti bringing up baby. Yes, it is like it's like opposite of Wolfman and also bring a baby. Yeah. Yeah. The the sort of valueten jock turn your collaboration is like very and fruitful. Like this was like the first of of these bunch of movies that they made, but I think it's kind of still regarded as one of, if not the best one. I haven't seen most of the other ones, but yeah, it feels like it it was made With a lot less resources than something like the Wolfman, there aren't really a lot of elaborate sets. like they They reuse the sets from Magnificent Ambersons for like the the apartment staircase and I think some of the other interiors. The staircase is definitely from Ambersons though.
00:46:11
Speaker
Wow, you know what? I watched Cat People right after I watched Magnificent Anderson. I didn't catch that, even though like i like when I saw them on the staircase in that movie, I was like, oh, wow, what ah this is an interesting shot right here. They're like, these stair this staircase looks awful familiar. I think the Wolfman will just be like, all right, turn to a werewolf. What are you going to do now? Just a cut to a shot of him, walk through the woods as a wolf.
00:46:41
Speaker
Whereas this is this movie is kind of a monster movie, but it barely, barely shows any sort of monster. It's all like suggestion and shadow yeah shadows and sounds. There's like no effects in this movie. Wolfman has bad effects. ah This movie just has no effects, yeah but it is effective. It works so much better. and it's like yeah When you just hear like an echoey growl,
00:47:08
Speaker
coming from like down a dark hallway. That's so much scarier than like seeing a like a janky like cat person or something, you know? I guess there's no like hybrid cat person in this movie. It's like she's either a woman or she is a panther. Yeah, we don't we don't get a full anamorph scene in this movie. even that like you don't there's not It's not really that explicit until like the last scene of the movie, almost, that it's like that she yeah even is turning into it but spoilers for cat people, that she turns into a jaguar.
00:47:40
Speaker
or a panther. Right. I think that's kind of interesting. Like I think it does draw it out a little bit too far. But ah this movie plays in a very pleasing way with this kind of idea of like how much so it's like based on this sort of the Eastern European legend about like ah that. I'm pretty sure is you know entirely made out.
00:48:05
Speaker
Like, I don't think that that is a real... It it seems made up, yeah. Like, when when she was like, oh yes, this this legend of cat people in my old Serbian town, I'm just like, okay, so you're just kind of taking part in just like, oh, the the weird Europeans over in Eastern Europe, like, they do weird stuff yeah and we don't, so we're gonna, you know, just ah ostracize them in some way, you know? Well, Val Luton was, I don't think he was Serbian, but he was from somewhere in Eastern Europe, let me...
00:48:36
Speaker
Look it up real quick. Valudin was Ukrainian. OK. All right, well. But so he was like, ah, Serbians, they they all have made up weird cat legends.
00:48:49
Speaker
Right, so the the main character, Arena, played by Simon Simon, which is a great name for an actor to have, who is French, if you couldn't tell by the name. And I like how she's supposed to be Serbian in this movie, and she's just French.
00:49:06
Speaker
It's definitely not that obvious, but yeah. and I thought, at least at at times, I'm like, she sounds incredibly French, despite the fact that she's supposed to be Serbian. and Maybe she's trying to do a little bit of accent, but but ah ah I mean, also of note of this movie is, as far as I can tell, ah you mentioned before the scene where they're like ah someone's being stalked down a street and then a bus shows up. That is, as far as I know, the first movie jump scare.
00:49:35
Speaker
And it has been like pointed out as such as because like for a while the jump scare was called the loot and bus Because of this movie I'm like, oh they did a loot and bus Whenever there was a jump scare in a movie Which is like, I mean, it's like quiet and scary. And then a bus shows up and it's really loud and sudden. There have been other notable bus jump scares in movies. Have they? I'm thinking of Mean Girls. Oh, you're saying like not previous to this, but just in general. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I like I don't know if Mean Girls is like specifically being like we're doing a loot and bus here. You want to cat people, but like maybe I don't know. Tina Fey is smart.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yeah. um ah Mean Girls is catty people.
00:50:22
Speaker
well then Well done. Well done. It's also funny that I feel like the... It's like a jump scare as a fake out too, which I think is like a specific type of jump scare. I think that is even more so it's like what the loot and bus is. It's like jump scare. Oh, it was nothing. It's just a bus.
00:50:38
Speaker
But I also yeah think that's yeah funny. I'm pretty sure my phone friends appointed this out that like cats are so often used in that role in horror movies. So it's funny that like the scary thing in this movie is a cat. And yet it's the bus that's like the fake out like in there's like stuff. And, you know, I think the first alien movie like.
00:50:55
Speaker
I think Halloween, like ah lots of movies have like, oh, it was just a cat. There were a lot of cats that scared me in the movie Cats. Yeah, true. Arguably a scarier cat movie than this one. um I like how often there are just like cats in scenes in this movie, too. Like cats are very ubiquitous throughout the whole thing of just like there are always cats around.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yeah, even like when they're in a museum, she's like posed behind a like a big old like ancient Egyptian cat guy statue. Yeah. ah Which, you know, same deal in Wolfman where it's like, oh, look, this cane has a wolf on it. It's like echoing its ah i don't know iconography throughout the movie. Yeah.
00:51:36
Speaker
I think there's some like there's stuff, some plot stuff in this movie that I don't love. I like the general set up of it, but i I think some of the writing is maybe a little bit blunt or just sort of like, I wish it had a little bit Nord kind of nuance to it. Like, right. I ran out of like falls in love and immediately marries this this architect ah like the next day, right? Like the next day. And he is like immediately patronizing to her and like not a very good romantic partner.
00:52:05
Speaker
And she's like, no, we cannot kiss. We cannot do anything because I'm too afraid of the evil that lives within me. And he's like, all right, fine. Like whatever you take as much time as you need, it's all fine. Like I'm here for you. And then like immediately is like having lunch with his coworker and his coworker is like, I think I love you. And he was like, hmm, interesting.
00:52:26
Speaker
And so then, Irena starts following them and like stalking but Alice, who's the co-worker. She's the person who gets you know chased under the bus and chased into the pool. She's the she's the scream queen of this movie. ah Yeah. um But it is also felt like Alice isn't like really framed as like a bad person. She has that funny line where she's like, I'm the new type of other woman. I'm likable.
00:52:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's interesting that this movie is kind of like interrogating this idea of like the work wife, you know, ah yeah like, like, oh, yeah, she's my work wife. yeah And then ah yeah, and then problematizing it ah immediately. I don't know. I guess like um it's it's like you were saying, it's kind of interesting that there isn't like a.
00:53:18
Speaker
straight up good or bad person in the movie. The psychiatrist is a bad guy. The psychiatrist is a villain. He's the only one I think that really dies in the movie. So it's like he gets a gruesome death via ah panther getting his throat ripped out because he is he is just terrible. He's just horrendously awful. And also he has a sword cane. Why does he have a sword cane? He has a sword cane. But like also he was a villain. He does have a sword cane.
00:53:46
Speaker
Yes, he's a terrible guy, but also he has the best lines in the movie, which are, ah there are in some, there is in some cases a psychic need to let loose evil upon the world. I read that one down. And then all of us carry within us a desire for death. Also, another one that I think is very funny is the law is very clear. One cannot divorce an insane person.
00:54:10
Speaker
hi yeah Um, also his advice as a doctor is basically just be normal. That's like his end sort of like, I've, I've given it a lot of thought and I think you should just ignore all the things that are bothering you and just be normal. And it's like, yeah, great, great advice doc works for me. Yeah. 1940 psychiatry.
00:54:32
Speaker
yeah's it's It's very funny, these old-timey psychiatry, like like obviously stupid psychiatry ah suggestions. I mean, who knows? like Maybe ah this is not necessarily a fully accurate portrayal of of psychiatry as it existed in the 40s. But I think it's it's funny that like he speaks with such like institutional expertise, ah like, oh, we know the way the human mind works. like I know what's right for you.
00:55:00
Speaker
and had psychiatry existed for like more than 50 years like not really well what what did they learn in those 50 years every person contains within them the desire for chaos and death sounds about right i want to shout out a couple of like just really cool little little bits of kind of filmmaking and especially sort of to kind of show the the there's not right there's no real transformation scene in this but there is the bit of the the sort of you see the muddy panther footprints turn into shoe footprints with like the sound of footsteps going over them. It's a very similar. there was a po but and
00:55:42
Speaker
There's a part that I couldn't tell how much of a transformation sequence it was, like where you just see you see her as a person and then you see like a panther attacking the psychiatrist in shadow. And it seemed like possibly the shadows were indicating some kind of transformation, but it all happened so fast that it was kind of hard to tell. It is the kind of like the movie is, I think, purposely ah ambiguous for a while of sort of like how much is she literally turning into a giant panther and how much is she maybe letting a panther out of the zoo every night to murder people for her.
00:56:15
Speaker
Which would also be a good question would also be a super sick movie, you know, but I do like how by the end of it, it's like there are two Panthers. One of them is is Irena is a lady. Yeah, yeah one of them is a lot. There's also it is a lady, a great, great shot where after she has like a big fight with her terrible husband, Irena is sitting on the couch and like just like runs her hand along the back of the cushion and it's like creates like claw scratches in the cushion. Yeah. And it's just like, yes, movies. Oh, like just other like cool stuff in this movie, ah there's almost like a slight.
00:57:02
Speaker
almost like a deconstructive jump scare a little bit. Also in like um he's returning to his architecture office that he works at and he sees the revolving door move by itself. It's like, oh, my God, like what's going on over there? And then it is it's almost like a gag like it, but it's kind of scary to where like, you know, you look down and and and it sees that there's like somebody scrubbing the floor and like inside of the ah revolving door. And that is what like made it move in a scary way.
00:57:32
Speaker
But it's like, this movie is filled with stuff like that, just like little scary, little, you know, fake outs, little scary bits, and then just like so much great atmosphere. And it feels like also like the the horror of this movie is so like psychological. Like it is ostensibly kind of a monster movie, but it feels much more like it. It feels like a much more psychological horror movie than something like The Wolfman or or really most most of the universal movies at this point.
00:58:01
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I mean, because most of the movie does not really concern being a monster. Most of the movie concerns being afraid of becoming a monster and or ah like ah domestic ah tension. Like most of the movie is about domestic tension with this kind of idea of monsterism hanging in the in the corner. I don't necessarily love how much I think this movie is trying to draw a parallel between like Evil and sin and sexuality. Like it, it's very, very like Irene is like, I can't kiss anyone or I will turn to a cat and murder them.
00:58:43
Speaker
And it it feels like the movie is a little bit laying that on too much, like going a little too far in that direction of just being like, women shouldn't feel pleasure or they're monsters. i don't necessarily it's no I don't think that that is necessarily what this movie is trying to posit.
00:59:02
Speaker
But I think that, combined with just some of its 1940s-ness, is a bit like, hmm, I don't and know how much of this movie's, I guess, sort of politics I might agree with. You know the funny thing is that it's like so ah so common in horror movies to tie death and sexuality to each other that I didn't even really think about that. Right, yeah. I mean, it like it's not uncommon.
00:59:26
Speaker
I mean, something that I did notice along those lines was that there there is a an element of like, you know, this as the feminine to Wolfman's masculine, right? It's it's about like there are points where you are kind of cheering her on to become a right. pant Yeah. It's like when when she kills the psychiatrist, it's like, hell, yeah, that guy sucks.
00:59:50
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's like there there is this kind of aspect of this like feline feminine power in this movie. Right. The pussy power in a episode title. I don't know if we can get away with that one. <unk> It's referring to cats. It's OK. Maybe it is OK. I'm using it in the British sense.
01:00:18
Speaker
ah Oh, Busta. A Thoroughly Blight Dust Up, the fictional film ah for most development. I think it's from 1942. So just throwing that out there. I don't know if this movie kind of gives me the vibe of being terrified of women. I think it is like portraying and kind of in awe of a certain mysterious female power that is so powerful that even she cannot. She is scared of her own self.
01:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely like a lot of ways to pick that apart. But ah like I, I was inclined to look at it charitably, I guess. I feel like I, I, I go back and forth on it. Like i I think I rewatched it again today and I think I was maybe feeling a bit more down on it. I don't know. um I think the first two times I watched it, I was for whatever reason, also maybe just like watching it on my laptop. I like wasn't as As engaged or like, you know as into it as as I had been seeing it and I also saw this in a theater Back in October, which was great I'm getting a lot of theater watches in for this episode Nice. Yeah, know there's just a lot of talk of like, you know Corrupt passion and such and I'm just like alright movie like Like feeling sexual desire is not like the most horrifying thing in the world.
01:01:39
Speaker
No, it's only the second most. But I also think, right, it is, you I think you're right. The movie isn't positing that. I think it is the characters that are, that feel that way. And so this movie is very much about like sexual repression also.
01:01:52
Speaker
And i I don't yeah, I don't really think it is a like pro repression movie. You know, it's funny, like another aspect of it, like, you know, saying that like, you know, death and sex are tied together in so many horror movies. So I didn't notice it. But also the other thing that I didn't notice is that even, you know, I noticed it a little bit, but I didn't really think about like this, this movie, like having uh, uh, sexual repression on its mind, because, like, I, you know, I could tell, like, oh, if I kiss someone, I'll turn into a cat and kill people. But, like, the, the the kind of chasteness of this movie is so typical of, like, the post-code, uh, like, Hollywood stuff, that it almost, it only feels like a little bit extra, like, a little bit more sexually repressed than, like, any other random movie from the 40s. Yeah.
01:02:45
Speaker
um Very true. Yeah, I think this movie rules though. And I've never seen the the remake, the Paul Schrader 80s movie with the David Bowie theme song. um I like Schrader. I'm i'm curious to see it. I've heard not great things about it, but i'm I'm curious to see it. There's also a sequel called Curse of the Cat People that I think is like tendentially i I'm not really sure how it's a sequel because it's like so Simone Simone, which is, I looked at the correct pronunciation of her name, um is also in it, but I think she plays like a ghost.
01:03:20
Speaker
of her character in this movie, so. um Cat Ghost. Yeah. um I do also think it's funny this movie kind of posits a like cat lady to witch ah pipeline, at least in old time Serbia, because it talks about Irena's mother was like had lots of cats and that people thought she was a witch. Speaking of witches. Speaking of witches, great segue.
01:03:45
Speaker
We also watched. You did it. ah We also watched a movie called I Married a Witch.
I Married a Witch
01:03:52
Speaker
That. Yeah. I wish it had an exclamation point in the title, but. Or if it was like an anime title, it would be like, I married a witch? Question mark exclamation point. That actually, that's the best possible version of this. Yeah, with like, like several exclamation points and and question marks afterwards.
01:04:12
Speaker
ah Yeah, nice it's not the most notable or important movie in 1942, but it seemed fun, so we watched it. Yeah, you know what the funny thing is? like i I was rather disappointed with this movie, to be honest, but like I think that it is informative to watch just a kind of like run-of-the-mill movie from this from from yeah our eras as well, right? and like Not a classic of great cinema, but just like Oh, OK. Well, I saw that. I watched the fall guy and I had a good time, you know. Right. I think the fall guy is probably better than I married a witch, but um it's much better than I married a witch. Yeah, I like the fall guy a lot more than most people. yeah i I thought the fall guy was great. But yeah, I married a witch is it does kind of feel like sort of more of a dislike stand like standard. This was also playing at the time. This was just an a this wasn't one of the great classics. This was just one of the normal ones.
01:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, and criterion tricked us by releasing it and into thinking that it is a great class. I guess it it is probably the most notable thing about it is that it stars Veronica Lake, who is a big, a big star, kind of kind of flash on the pan star, like you don't really have a career post 1940s like a lot of I was like thinking of actors from this time period, like so many of them died when they were in their 50s, which is crazy.
01:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, ah they drank a lot of booze. Yeah. I mean, Veronica Lake was like apparently a rage alcoholic and died from liver disease, which like is very sad. um But it yeah, I'm like every time I look up why these people died so young, it's like, oh, yeah, they smoked 18000 cigarettes a day and drank four bottles of whiskey before 10 a.m. It's like, OK, yeah, I mean, that that'll do it.
01:06:00
Speaker
This feels a lot like a it's like a proto bewitched. I also thought thought the same thing for sure. Also, I think it's it. We got to mention that Veronica Lake is basically Jessica Rabbit in terms of how she looks and her like hairstyle. Huh? Yeah, I guess I need to see her in like a kind of um I mean, I mean, she doesn't have the absurdly exaggerated, ah you know, body proportions of of Jessica Rabbit. But definitely Jessica Rabbit's I think like hair and face design.
01:06:30
Speaker
are are inspired pretty heavily by Veronica Lake. ah Yeah, I mean, ah this movie also has ah Frederick March, who we've seen in a number of movies so far comedy star. Frederick March, apparently ah said a not too kind thing about about Veronica Lake in regards to that, calling her a brainless little blonde sex pot void of any acting ability, which you know, you really feel.
01:06:58
Speaker
yeah Regardless of all the ah you know ah gender politics and whatnot, ah it is ah it's quite quite a burn, I will say. yeah um and Honestly, I don't think that she's a very good actor in this. so I think she's fine. i Yeah, I don't know. I didn't think she was doing a great job. I was i was charmed. I feel like this movie is so kind of like light and kind of fluffy.
01:07:24
Speaker
And a little kind of frivolous feeling anyway that it is like it's I don't know what else I would expect from any of the performances in it. Yeah, fair. I wish that this movie like that I was a little more sold on the romance in this movie. um And I wish I was a little more sold on the comedy in this movie, I guess like it definitely feels.
01:07:48
Speaker
sort of a piece and it is like tonally in terms of the the the style of humor and it feels like it's going for a very similar thing to a lot of the other screwball comedies that we've watched like Lady Eve or Ring a Baby but it's just not as well made as those really it doesn't feel like it has the doesn't have the, you know, the Genesee qua of those, you know, of say like, I think Frederick March is even sort of like pushing himself to a more sort of like Cary Grant esque performance of like, yeah, exasperated.
01:08:22
Speaker
like, oh no, it's wo what what's what's my fiancee going to think when there's a lady in my bed? oh and it i ah he doesn't I mean, he's not nearly as cartoonish as Cary Grant is. And I think had this movie starred like Cary Grant and Catherine Hepburn or other people, it probably would have been- This would have been so much better. Right.
01:08:45
Speaker
But then, you know, that's like they like they can't all be winners, right? Also, I think this movie is perfectly enjoyable. Like I had i had fun watching this. Yeah, I think that like um there maybe I am left with a bit of a bad taste of my mouth of this movie specifically because like the beginning of it, I think, is pretty solid. But then there's a turn partway through the movie where it kind of turns from a comedy into a romance, basically, into a a romance. And I think that that second half does not work that well. Like, the first half, I think, is really intriguing, where, like, the setup is is basically that there was a guy in Pilgrim Times who burned ah burned a witch at the stake and sealed her and her wizard, her her ah sorcerer father inside of an old tree. Ralak is the the correct ah ah nomenclature on that?
01:09:41
Speaker
I don't think they use that. No, I don't. I think they say sorcerer in the movie. Yeah. Also, apparently, pre Harry Potter, there might have been I think that like the genderization of witch and warlock witch and wizard um is like I've heard is kind of a post Harry Potter thing. Well, I mean, where it wasn't so lots of people have were like accused of witchcraft who were men like a witch as a like purely feminine word, I think it is also a little bit.
01:10:10
Speaker
a more modern thing. I think in in the olden times, it was like anyone who did spells, you're a witch. Yeah. ah But anyway, ah they are sealed inside of an oak tree. And finally, and and the the witch and the sorcerer like cast a curse upon his family to never find love or never be satisfied in love. And ah so that curse goes on through their lineage up until modern era. I do really like this like Series of scenes of like different eras of all of the bad marriages that are happening and it's all like that was fun's all I think it's a couple of different actors, but i I especially like when it's just Frederick March in like like mutton chops and things Yeah, yeah, they're all put all of the the characters I think are played by Frederick March and different makeup and wigs and everything
01:10:59
Speaker
And i another another thing i I love in movies is like whenever they're like, here's a portrait of like my great ancestor and it's the same actor. Yeah, with just like with like a different hair and like a beard. that Yeah, that's good. It's like it. I always love it. If it's supposed to be taken seriously or if it's a joke, I just I'm always happy.
01:11:17
Speaker
And so like the kind of impetus of the movie is that a light lightning strikes the oak tree and they're freed from their prison after, you know, hundreds of years. And so they go on to that like in in this movie, like witches and sorcerers are legitimately evil. ah They're also like not humans. They're like other beings. They're like supernatural creatures more than they are like people who cast spells.
01:11:44
Speaker
I mean, i I think it's kind of an unavoidable problem when you want to do a movie like this or similar to this, but like... like You're kind of endorsing the Salem Witch Trials by saying witches are real? Exactly, yeah. yeah ah But like if you want witches to be real and you also want to include witch burnings in your movie, you have to like go like, okay, well, sometimes the witch trials were good, ah which is an uncomfortable assertion to me. It is funny to see kind of how some movies try to like get around that or it's sort of like, we're not endorsing any of the many, many, many murders that happen. It's just this one was okay. right
01:12:22
Speaker
But so they start out the movie basically like, all right, time to wreak some more havoc. Let's light a building on fire. Let's go find this guy who's the descendant of the people who the the guy who burns me. And we're just going to ruin his life. Like, let's think about a way to make his time bad and.
01:12:43
Speaker
I think that they could also have had a lot more fun with this part. Like they could have gone a lot harder into like the screwball comedy of like, how are we gonna like mess with this guy? um But anyway, I think that it it it it is interesting what that like her um angle of how she's going to like mess with him is she's going to instantiate herself as a as a sexy lady and then basically like violently manic pixie dream girl him? Manic witchy dream girl. ah man she's she'll She's a manic wi witchy dream girl but like rather than it being like this kind of poor writing
01:13:26
Speaker
experience. It is her using those kind of like um that the kind of susceptibility to Manic Pixie Dreamgirls of guys in movies and i and like using it to like harass and and hurt him as much as she can, which I think is a sort of an interesting use of that ah trope, even though it's only barely a trope at this point. Right. It's like it's ah it's kind of just like the The trendy way to do a romance movie when this comes out, which is kind of funny. Yeah, and that's something the more enjoyable part of the movie when it is more it's more screwball, it's more wacky, it's more about like what kind of crazy gags are going to happen. There are some crazy gags later in the movie, but.
01:14:13
Speaker
Right, because even then, the actual, like, the the turn I think that you're talking about in the romance is when she tries to give him a love potion so that he will, like, permanently fall in love with her instead of his fiancรฉe, but then she drinks it by accident instead.
01:14:27
Speaker
So then she falls in love with him. Which is a great gag. Yeah, it is a great gag. I thought it was really funny when it swapped around to her drinking the love potion. But then it just doesn't work after that point. But then it also is like this romance is built on this sort of like literally magic. It's just like, oh, yeah, these people have no reason to actually like care about each other. But then because magic happens now, they suddenly do. Right. And so it feels a little short cutty maybe, even though it is a very funny gag in in the scene.
01:14:57
Speaker
And then, I don't know, there's there's some some of the bits later with like... the I really like the kind of wedding set piece where it like the wedding singer. They keep starting the wedding and the singer keeps singing the same song to like get the wedding started again like eight times and it gets funnier and funnier every time. So by the last kind of like they did that. They did that bit in spaceballs, too. So that might be a lot of a lot of like proto Mel Brooks stuff in the early 40s.
01:15:29
Speaker
I mean, this is another movie that does have a lot of like cats equal femininity equal like supernatural. Mm hmm. Which is kind of funny that like both this and cat people have just like that in common with each other, like that those things, which I guess are like there are roots to that. That wasn't wasn't invented in 1942. I just think it's it's interesting that like that's so ubiquitous, I guess, that it's like cats are supernatural and feminine, even even a male cats. There's just like connotations to it. Yeah. i mean i'm sure like I think that the association with cats and witches had already kind of been yeah you know established. and
01:16:14
Speaker
Yeah. There's a- I mean- Cats and the supernatural, I think, probably might even go back to like ancient Egypt. I think there's you know like Yeah. Cats and and the afterlife and on that all that jazz. Well, you know, there's the... Mummies. There's just the the kind of cliche yeah gender kind of associations that have existed in a long time of cats are feminine and men are dogs. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus.
01:16:44
Speaker
The only other thing that I have to say about this is that there's a point where they are um shocked at ah the differences in the world as they have kind of arrived in the 1940s from the 1600s or whatever.
01:16:58
Speaker
and so they are floating around as like mist spirits or or something. And they happen across two people outside of a party ah with that have some dialogue that is loaded up with 40s slang, specifically specifically because it's like This is confusing the people from old. This is like feels very out of touch or it feels very different from the way that they understand the English language. But then us looking back at it, it is it is also very different. Want to feel old? We're as far from the 1940s as the 1600s were.
01:17:37
Speaker
ah And the words they say are incredible. ah They say, what's knitting, kitten? Would you like to cut a rug? And then she says, let's ditch these ickies. How about we go to heaven in your jalopy? And then he says, that's solid, Jackson. Now you're cooking on the front burner. But I know what all that means. So I don't know what that says about me.
01:17:59
Speaker
but What I mean, it is very good. It's great. What's in it and can this. And it reminds me a lot of go peel an eel. And it 1930s, 40s rhyming slang, I guess, was a thing. Not in the same way the cock rhyming slang is. But like, yeah, I do like expressions like go peel an eel and what's in it and can for sure. There's also like, let's ditch these icky's is pretty good. It's these icky's is very good. We got also got to bring this back.
01:18:30
Speaker
Yeah, i can't we're we're young and hip. I need i need a yeah i like a cheat sheet of old terms so that I can remind myself. It's funny because i've I've looked those up and they do exist, but I feel like they're missing a lot of the really fun sort of expressions that we found just watching old movies. like Yeah.
01:18:49
Speaker
like You know, I think like Go Cut a Rug is something that is probably on some like, you know, 30s, 40s slang cheat sheets, but Knit and Kitten and Ditch These Ickies. I've never. Yeah. Never heard anywhere else besides this movie. So also I'm surprised at the raciness of how about we go to heaven in your jalopy? Like that's what there's even like, because in 1940s American English saying making love just meant like making out with someone.
01:19:17
Speaker
Like it it was like full. And so there's a lot of forties movies where people are like, ah, yes, yes, mother, he's making violent love to me in the kitchen. And it's like, what?
01:19:29
Speaker
It's like it wasn't as it didn't mean as much in the 1940s as it does now. So see that is kind that i'm I'm a little uncertain about that because I had kind of heard that, you know, I've started hearing that in this context and I was like, oh, I guess it just means making out. But I feel like there were some uses of it in movies that we have seen lately, like one or two, where it seemed to imply a bit more than making out. That might be the movie being a little.
01:19:59
Speaker
Old cheeky I don't know what I'm guessing like but like there was some point where the term making love like Shifted right ah and moved out a couple bases in the the base team ah Yeah, yeah, it scored a whole run
01:20:18
Speaker
But this is something that I've been actively tracking of when this term shifts. The etymology of making love. I love etymology. The sexiest thing ever.
01:20:34
Speaker
um ah but But I was thinking like, okay, there must be a point where it shifts. But then when I heard those ones that seem to have a bit more insinuation in them, I wondered if like, in some contexts, it just means making out. But given like the censorship that they were dealing with, right? Like maybe it it always had a broader context where like in certain casual settings, like like it could mean like ah an umbrella term for all types of hanky-panky. right
01:21:09
Speaker
and like
01:21:12
Speaker
and um and so maybe like they were able to kind of get away with a lighter insinuation under the code. ah But then as it, but like it always kind of implied like a larger scope of what things were. Anyway, certainly by the sixties, it meant sex. And that's only 15, 20 years from now. So like that would be a ah very fast lexical shift if so. Yeah.
01:21:44
Speaker
I mean, it makes sense that it it was an umbrella term and maybe like under the Hays Code, it was sort of like it tended to be used in it in a slightly less risque context. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to look this up, but probably looking up the history of making love is not going to find me the results. You've got to use quotes.
Bambi's Artistic Impact
01:22:03
Speaker
Another movie we watched that features animals. Is Bambi.
01:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, and ah animals animals in love. True, true. another ah Another movie that gets romantic in the last, what, half an hour. i i mean I had seen Bambi as a kid multiple times. like it was it was it was It was a VHS. it was in yeah We had the clamshell growing up. Yeah. um But I hadn't watched it in, I mean, 20 years easily, I feel like.
01:22:35
Speaker
Yeah, same. I watched it. I'm pretty sure I watched it, but it was so long ago that I really have no memory. And I was like, Bambi. Bambi is like a swell picture, whatever. You know, deer in the woods, sad. And I think Bambi kind of rules. Like I was moving. I was like, but does Bambi rule? Is Bambi just like a really kick ass movie?
01:23:01
Speaker
ah I wouldn't argue with the you with you on that point. like like It is a really different and interesting movie. remembering two things in this movie. People remember the death of Bambi's mother, which is heartbreaking, and people remember the like very early scenes of young Bambi like ah experiencing the world for the first time and sort of like learning to speak and you know talking to birds and things.
01:23:29
Speaker
Yes. People do not remember that Bambi fighting a pack of wild dogs, hunting dogs, and like having an expressionistic ah fight with another male deer and like getting trucked off a mountain. there's this There's a lot in this movie. I did not remember being in the movie, I guess.
01:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's I think that because this movie isn't very plotty, I think a lot of people forget about the things that this movie is just a bunch of stuff happening. And normally I would mean that as an insult, but I don't mean it here. Yeah, um like that I think it's being animated works.
01:24:12
Speaker
It would like it works better as a less plotty movie because it's animated and is like you're just seeing stuff happening and you're like, this is gorgeous. Look at what yeah is happening on screen right now. Yeah. So what's what's your what's your um your angle on on the kick assness of Bambi? I mean, it looks incredible. Like the animation of this movie is like I meltingly ah gorgeous, I think, which yeah, again, like I remember this being, you know, a very well animated, like good colorful movie, but I think, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's also the fact that it's like, you know, I'm seeing a like really pristine restoration on Disney Plus that is like very colorful, very bright. It looked a little DNR'd to me. You know, it probably was. But I think by and large, like you can see, especially in the backgrounds, you know, you can see the painterliness of them.
01:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, um I think this movie is more expressionistic than I remember it being. That was a big one where it's like it is really playing um not necessarily with like different animation styles, but I was like, I was reminded more of Into the Spider-Verse watching Bambi than I thought it would be. It doesn't go nearly that far, like not even close, obviously, but it is like because it's doing a lot more with like abstract shapes and colors and things like that than I thought it would.
01:25:35
Speaker
Well, because this movie apart from ah apart from a couple of specific moments that use kind of expressionistic imagery to get ah feelings across like and that all happens when Bambi's an adult. There's a little bit of earlier on early on earlier on, but yeah, most of it's like in the last 30, 40 minutes of the movie. Yeah.
01:25:56
Speaker
And like so the beginning of this movie especially but the movie in general is so obsessed with reality. It is like this movie took an extra long time to make because they wanted to like they were like we can't we can't crack the deer animation. We need the deer animation to look so real.
01:26:17
Speaker
and like we need to like put this on the back burner for a little while while we like hone our skills basically in order to do Bambi it was I believe it was supposed to be the first movie that they were going to do so like there are so so many things that this movie is just like obsessed with like minute details of textures in the forest and like the motion of limbs uh like the animal like anatomy like this this movie is like so much about like the physical anatomy of animals but it is also it's blending really recognizable physical anatomy of animals with really recognizable human expression
01:27:01
Speaker
it it draws like a really good line between like reds that needle so well like yeah way in which it is like I fully recognize that this is like owl behavior and let yet is it is being sort of anthropomorphized to use a big just enough word just like it's like I'm so you know the way that the the owl kind of shifts weight in the beginning and just like, you know, the like Thumper's expression when he's like talking to his mom versus talking to Bambi, like whole body language shift. But it's like still looks like a rabbit. And it's like just the little little nose twitching in the rabbits. so Yeah, the way. Yeah, the way that any of the deer move and walk. And yet it's like they feel like. Real characters, their facial animation still feels very reminiscent of human expression.
01:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's not just in character design, but in movement, like you're saying, like they are they are just human enough in order for us to recognize their emotions clearly and project our emotions onto them clearly. But compared to a lot of other.
01:28:11
Speaker
animated animal movies there is like a like a more of a realism to these like and So much more like I was saying with the and animal anatomy so much more of just like scenes That really are just all about these animals moving like like Bambi on the ice right right where like it like there's not much to that scene except like like watch the way the muscles inside of this deer move but it is like like a funny way. But it is it's becoming kind of there's a bit of like kind of dance in there, too. It feels like the closing I would compare that scene to is like a a dance scene, even though it is like animals trying to walk on ice. But it has that kind of like
01:28:57
Speaker
you know there's you know There's communication happening between between them that is non-verbal. It's revealing personality of of both of them. like it's We're getting a fuller sense of both those characters purely by just how they're walking on ice. And yet it is also like, I believe that that's a deer and ah and a rabbit.
01:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's how I would imagine they would dance on ice. Oh, and like the one of the ah other kind of humanoid aspects of them is that like, maybe the this is the first anime, right? Like Bambi's eyes are so anime in in this movie. When was the actual first anime? Because we did we pass it? I know it was like 1903 or something like that. maybe If you want the show like the.
01:29:44
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I thought so. Yeah. But I mean the first anime in terms of like first the first big old eyeballs. Yeah. I mean, you know, Osamu Tetsuka is known as the godfather of anime. He basically single handedly created the anime visual style. But Osamu Tetsuka was working off of he was like riffing off of Disney. um His his style was his own evolution on the Disney House style. And then mo like the anime look is a
01:30:18
Speaker
and an evolution on Osamu Tetsuka's look. Do you know if Bambi was ever sighted as like a direct inspiration for that? Or is that kind of conjecture just based on how the facial animation looks in Bambi? It is conjecture. I mean, it makes sense. But I will say that. I can definitely see it. It's conjecture in that like I bet if I looked into it, I would find something. But like I was just noticing Bambi's eyes and looking like anime eyes. And I was like,
01:30:45
Speaker
I see it. It's it's real. Yeah. um And I know for a fact that like Osamu Tetsuka was like basically he was like super into Disney. He really he was a big Disney adult, Osamu Tetsuka. But like he um super like in awe and respect of the Disney style of animation and cartooning.
01:31:08
Speaker
you know And there's been this kind of mutual back and forth and everything like Osamu Tetsuka made manga that involved animals ah that had had big anime eyes like Bambi. um He made in I think the 50s or 60s, it was a manga called Kimba the White Lion, which was then re retaken back into Disney yeah as they stole a lot of it for Lion King. I just read Osamu Tezuka's 4000 page manga biography of Guga and it is so good. It was so, so good. Incredible. I was like, I was like, am I a Buddhist now?
01:31:52
Speaker
ah But it was a really good, ah it's ah it's a really good manga. But anyway, I guess one other thing that I want to say about like the kind of like the realism cartooning part of it is that I touched on earlier was ah the the way the forest is depicted, ah the way nature is depicted in this movie.
01:32:12
Speaker
um and like you see like raindrops falling on leaves. The rain scene is so beautiful and like the texture of bark and grass and the way the the way it moves in the wind and all the stuff. It's like it's all like such careful observation. ah and yeah It's not using cartooning it Sometimes it is, but like its premise doesn't seem to be using cartooning to like alter reality as much as depict reality in a very constrained and um controlled way.
01:32:51
Speaker
I mean, you know, it's funny because I feel like my takeaway from this movie was, I don't disagree with that, but I feel like my takeaway of this movie was how kind of like painterly it is and how much it is. It isn't right. It isn't that abstracted. It's like it's very, very well observed with all of it, like with the textures, with the movement of everything, of like every leaf, every animal. But it is like it feels like it is using animation the way that i dont I feel like animation ought to be used, which is to sort of like create this this heightened version of something. like yeah I know Disney has threatened to remake this movie as one of their like
01:33:34
Speaker
weird CGI like photo real Remakes and I'm like, why would you do this to ban like Bambi is perfect as he's already been through enough, right? Like but what could you possibly get out of like a literal photo real CGI deer on the ice? Oh God, he would just it would just be terrible. You know, I was aware of this i so small I Until you said photo real CGI, dear, I didn't picture it. And now that I've pictured it, I hate it so. Right. It's like it's just it's just worse in every way. So it's like ah Disney, if you're listening, Disney, the company, Bob Iger, if you're listening to this, please do not remake Bambi as a CGI monstrosity. I have not seen either either of the two Lion King movies. But I'm like, I have so little interest because I'm just like, I don't want to see a realistic looking lion sing a song because lions don't have facial expressions.
01:34:29
Speaker
I like Jungle Book OK, but i I don't know about those other ones. Yeah. i But so and I was it's funny how how much because you're right, there is there is like so much realism being put into this movie. And yet it is my my biggest takeaway from it was sort of how expressionistic and how painterly and how like animated it was.
01:34:50
Speaker
um And just how gorgeous all of that is. Like, it's it's so well done. ah A beautiful film. Oh, Bambi. What also movie is this movie is rated G. And yet it is it is heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking. It is scary. It is ah ah violent. Sure. There's like there's fights in it.
01:35:11
Speaker
There's no like, you know, blood or or viscera or anything, you know, not a lot of death. But I think the death that is in this movie is like, you feel it. Yeah. not just dying but I mean, Bambi's mom either, which is like so, so heartbreaking and also so much of it because it is you don't see very much. It's like very restrained. And it's but it also it's like the just like the finality of it. It's just like, oh,
01:35:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah. sad Yeah. I think that like this like Fantasia is not a movie that's like not kid friendly, quote unquote, but it is a movie that is not real. It doesn't really feel like it's for kids. ah Yeah, I mean, I think it is for kids, but it also doesn't feel like it is. It never feels that's talking down to the audience, even though it does feel like it is intended for a I do feel like it is largely in head to fore. I mean, it's it's a the the proper implementation of a family movie and that it is like young kids I think can watch this and get a lot out of it.
01:36:20
Speaker
Considering the number of people who like cannot cite this as a heartbreaking like traumatic experience, considering the number of people who can't get over Bambi's mom dying in the movie, I don't think that this movie is appropriate for younger children.
01:36:37
Speaker
i think that like the the thing that One of the things that's really good about this movie and interesting about this movie is that it confronts death directly. And it confronts like the trauma of death directly, but it also confronts like the pedestrian-ness of death directly and and like how like your parents are going to die. And I feel like the reason why this movie scarred so many people is because it might have been their first
01:37:08
Speaker
understanding of an idea that their parents might die. yeah right like I think that like this movie is doing something a bit more mature than what a young child can handle. I think it is um treating life and death in this ah in this way that is um kind of speaking on, you know, this these greater kind of ideas of existing in the world. And it's grappling with them directly in a way that I don't think younger children can handle. I think it depends on the kid. I don't know. i'm
01:37:47
Speaker
i am I mean, I don't have children, so I'm you know talking kind of out of my ass here. But i I do think so many people cite Bambi as a, right, a thing that like scarred them as a as a kid. those say I feel like a lot of those same people cite this as one of their favorite movies or like something that inspired them to like get into animation or filmmaking. you know I think a lot of things that people cite as a like traumatic film experience can sometimes also then be the thing that like in that ends up inspiring them later in life or earlier in life. Like, sure. So, I mean, I think that kind of thing very much depends on on the kid. um And i I also, I'm so opposed to the idea of like talking down to to kids, especially like through art, that I think this is like a fairly safe way to introduce a young child to the idea of death.
01:38:41
Speaker
Yes, yeah whether or not you want to do that is another question, but it is sort of like, you know, I would show them this before I tell them a lot of other movies that deal with death as directly as this does. Yeah, I mean, I think that like, um like death is stark in this movie, right? I don't I don't intend on talking down to children or, or um you know, ah underestimating their capabilities at all. I just think that, like,
01:39:10
Speaker
This movie is rated G, and maybe it should- Maybe some parental guidance is- Maybe put a P in there. I think that to get onto this subject of death in the movie, I see a lot of similarity between this movie and Princess Mononoke. Oh, yeah.
01:39:32
Speaker
this this movie both of them are kind of like two major kind of themes going on in both of these movies are life and death in nature and how life and death in nature are things that are unremarkable. They are part of the world. Living and dying are part of the world. The cycle continues. I think it's very notable that in this movie, after Bambi's mom dies, he realizes what happens and then it moves on, right?
01:40:06
Speaker
Like it does not dwell on his mom dying, which surprised me. It was on remarkably quickly. Yeah, it surprised me because like so many people think about that scene so much, ah but like it does not fixate on it. It is just like deer's parents die and then they grow up and become bigger deer. Right. And ah And then the other kind of theme, obviously, that that this and Princess Monoke share is about like, you know, man versus nature, right? And specifically like the corruption of nature by men. It is pretty notable that the only death in this movie comes from guns.
01:40:48
Speaker
there there are There are no like Bambi never has to like fight other than the you know, the hunting dogs never has to fight like a predator. There's no like mountain lion or bear. You know, if death is never like circular life. Like, you know, the wolf has to eat also. The wolf has to feed its young. That is never addressed. There are no predators in this movie. The only predator is man indiscriminately shooting animals.
01:41:12
Speaker
Yeah, there's no kind of uncomfortable Lion King sort of ah we eat them. It's okay kind of thing. Yeah, but it is like I think it kind of gets into kind of like the randomness of death also and that it isn't like none of the death in this movie is right is like feels justified. It always feels shocking and like it is like breaking the natural order of things.
01:41:35
Speaker
Yeah, like like humans feel like such a corruption on the beauty that yeah is existing in this world. They feel like aon humans are like a supernatural like horror in this movie. Yeah, you never see. Yeah.
01:41:51
Speaker
Yeah. and And you know, this movie is also coming from the perspective of a deer, right? A deer always wants to run away from people. i think that's like There's a scene with ah a pheasant, right? That's like that's afraid. runs like their cards They keep coming closer and it's like, don't fly, don't fly, don't fly. We'll die if we fly. And that, oh my God, that scene was like,
01:42:12
Speaker
I feel like that scene almost hit harder than Bambi's mom. Same. I think because it hadn't been like hyped up, like I didn't remember that scene. So I was just like, oh, my this is horrifying. This is like really upsetting. Yeah. G rated movie. What a what a choice it is never to show humans in this movie. Yeah, like, yeah, what what a it's an interesting choice. Powerful artistic choice to have humanity be this off screen horrific threat that will just appear seemingly at random and just cause widespread death and destruction. I think that if they showed humans, it would allow other humans to say i would allow people watching the movie to say, that's these guys, not this could be us, right?
01:43:00
Speaker
I think that this movie is basically saying, like, what is your responsibility when it comes to treating animals with respect and nature with respect? like ah And i've apparently a lot of people have become vegetarians after seeing this movie, I see why.
01:43:20
Speaker
ah Also, like this movie was the beginning of Bambi was the first animal mascot of do not start a forest fire. ah Like because watching that scene today really hit hard.
01:43:39
Speaker
yeah Oh, yeah, I guess that's true. You know, dis Disney licensed out Bambi to the Forest Service, I guess it was, um ah to use him as their kind of mascot for anti like, like, be careful about starting a forest fire stuff. And then when that license ran out, that's when they created Smokey the Bear.
01:44:02
Speaker
without showing the humans, right it's like, yes, you could be the one starting this forest fire. You're hurting Bambi. You could be the one shooting this gun. You're hurting Bambi. where like you know Maybe like a movie like The Fox and the Hound or something like that, which is one of my ah early childhood favorites. yeah but like it has like what What a movie that is.
01:44:25
Speaker
But it's like it has like specific humans and you're like, oh, they're the bad ones. They're not me. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Now, that's that's a very good point. I hadn't thought about about it. I guess that specifically, like in those terms. But I. Yeah, I think that's there's a ah real power to to not showing them in this movie.
01:44:45
Speaker
Yeah, they don't even show the guns that yeah like don't even like have the guns like like point up or at the pheasant or something like that. And I think that I think makes it scarier. That's like you don't know where they even are in relation to the animal. yeah Like it's just this thing that comes out of nowhere. It makes the humans alien because yeah like this is like a world where they are alien to it. Yeah, but like along the death stuff, I mean, it's kind of territory we already covered. But like, you know, Princess Mononoke, I think like one of the really beautiful things about that movie is that um it takes this idea of the naturalness of life and death and like how ah the meaninglessness of life and death
01:45:29
Speaker
uh and it's like death and life are part of the same thing they're a part of nature like there is a part of dying that is sad uh just like there's a part of autumn that is sad but it is like there is no such thing as like like you can you can perceive it in the moment but there's no such thing in the scheme of this like unfeeling beautiful and terrible world and like beautiful and scary world that like it like there's no such thing as
01:46:03
Speaker
being sad about death, right? Like, um one of my favorite metaphors from Princess Mononoke is the forest god who, you know, shares is a deer. ah He's i do you like a creature, perhaps. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely a reference to Bambi. But do you think it has is a direct reference to Bambi? Or do you think it is just sort of like, no, this is what we use to represent a a you know If you're going to sort of not personify you're going to manifest the forest into a single creature. ah The Prince of the Forest in Bambi is like a majestic deer that everybody stops and stares at. And that is exactly what happens in Princess Mononoke. The way that those scenes are kind of play out are pretty similar. It's true.
01:46:48
Speaker
um But like one of the things that I find the most beautiful in that movie is how this forest god who is in command of all life and death and is completely apathetic to life and death but knows that they are interlinked, right? Like every step that it takes on the ground, my favorite image from that movie, every step that it takes on the ground plants grow up out of nothing and then like grow and turn green and then wither and die. And it does it over and over with every step as it touches the ground. It's like life and death all in one, all happening quickly, ah like instantaneously in this movie. And I think that ah Princess Mononoke kind of fleshes out these ideas more where Bambi just kind of like ah depicts them.
01:47:40
Speaker
I think it depicts the unfeelingness of life and death in the natural world. And like it is a scary thing, but it's also like a natural thing. There's a beauty to like the experiences of fear that Bambi has. They are real. They're like a part of nature. ah And that's why it's like such a big idea, and I think it's kind of hard for... It might be rough on a three-year-old. you know I mean, sure, yeah. But yeah, I would show... You know, I, but I, right. I think, I think this movie depicts them, but I think it is. Right. It doesn't, it isn't like really getting the nitty gritty, the way that like Prince is my no case. I would not show the Prince to my located three year old.
01:48:18
Speaker
That movie is way too intense. In some ways, I feel like the contextualization of Princess Mononoke kind of makes it an easier watch for younger kids. But I don't know if like shooting somebody's head off with a bow and arrow, maybe I'm just desensitized that I don't know that that's ah a big deal. It can get pretty gory. Yeah, no, should we talk about the um the horny parts of Bambi also? Oh, yes, of course we should. I think that's like kind of the next big sort of theme we should tackle.
01:48:45
Speaker
in Bambi is where, right after the the death of the mother, he right he meets his absentee ah dear father, the the great prince of the forest. Mm hmm. Who's just like your mother is gone and he's like, OK, hard cut to spring like. All right. Springtime ah months later, Bambi is now, you know, teen Bambi, teen Bambi with antlers. They need a teen wolf show ah for teen Bambi or. Yeah. um ah So, yeah, we get we get, you know, ah teen Bambi, teen Thumper and ah and and teen Flower.
01:49:25
Speaker
Which I feel like we need to discuss. Flower is a character I was like, how how gay is flower supposed to be? Because I certainly read it that way. I don't know. His name is Flower. His name is Flower. He's a skunk who seems, you know, very excited when Bambi calls him a flower. I don't know. I I took it that way. Also, I thought that Flower was a girl.
01:49:50
Speaker
Right. Up until up until Teen Flowers introduced with a deep voice, I was like, oh, OK, that changes this character's relationship quite a bit. Well, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Because then and then immediately. Well, so that the the three young forest animals are given a sex talk by the owl, which I thought was very funny. The owl was like, hey, you might you might meet another animal and and feel some feelings.
01:50:18
Speaker
It's the birds talk. There there aren't any bees. but There are no bees. in It's just the birds talk. It's true. There's there's some good like kind of um physical comedy that is like like the most reality breaking like motion that ever happens yeah in this movie. Yeah. It's the most kind of Looney Tunes esque stuff, but very good. Like the spinning on the branch and like kind of the the like walking in midair stuff. I thought it was a lot of fun.
01:50:46
Speaker
If you don't know what we're talking about, just imagine ah ah like all of the possible things that an owl could do to go hubba hubba a-woo-ga. Yeah, pretty much. um But so then, Flower's the first one to meet another skunk who I definitely think is supposed to be a female skunk. Yeah. And so then, i well, now now I'm starting to question how much, you know, who knows? Maybe Flower's bi? We don't know. We know very little about Flower.
01:51:12
Speaker
I mean, if you were to recolor that skunk tail into a bi flag, that into those those colors, then it would turn into a bi flag.
01:51:25
Speaker
Yeah, another thing like with like gender in this movie, right? like When I was a kid, I thought that Bambi was a girl. Maybe Bambi has the big eyelashes.
01:51:37
Speaker
And this movie, this movie confounds yeah gender understanding in cartoons because bullies have eyelashes. And that is not how cartoons work. It's funny, though, that how much that is like even I think by 1942, that is like we've established in cartoons. Yeah. That.
01:51:57
Speaker
like female characters have big eyelashes. That's how you can tell. I also thought they watching this movie, like feminine cartoon animals are always so funny to me because it's like, in so many cases, like we drew this animal with like cartoonized, right? They have big eyes, they have exaggerated proportions, and then a lady one shows up and suddenly they have massive eyelashes, eyeshadow, and they're going,
01:52:24
Speaker
but They're like sort of like pressing up their their imaginary bosoms. They're like the most insanely like feminine looking version of an animal possible fish. And then there's this other fish that's like va va va voom. Right. It's always like, wait, whoa. If you had any doubt of the gender of this fish, we're not making it remotely ambiguous, except in Bambi, right? Because when Bambi is ah ah a young deer, what's that called? Fawn?
01:52:54
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, he's got the he's got the big, long lashes too. You could say something about like it maybe like the genderlessness of childhood, right? before like like Especially if you're talking about like you know the the the um I don't know, it instincts and hormones and alien aliens, animals um that like, you know, Bambi only kind of Bambi becomes a man, not through this. This I think is interesting. It's not it is not his mom dying or some kind of moment of plot that turns Bambi into a man. It is incidental. You know, it is just what happens because as deer get older, they grow, ah they grow antlers and they turn into
01:53:38
Speaker
bucks, right? ah and and so all of these ah There's all of these younger animals that have these kind of more ambiguous gender situations.
01:53:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's like I wonder how how much of this, if any of it, was on the mind of the people making Bambi or not, or if they were just like a bunch of animals. I don't know. But it is certainly in ah in a contemporary context where I feel like we have hopefully a slightly more nuanced understanding of gender. um it It stands out. Yeah. Also, I feel like i feel like Flowers should have found another male ah Skunk, I think that would have been a better ending for that character. Maybe in the woke new movie, they'll do that. You know what? I i would not be surprised. um That's maybe the the only thing you could do with Bambi that would improve it slightly while ruining all the other good parts of it.
01:54:33
Speaker
but isn't that just like ah what they do with those live-action Disney movies is they ruin it in every way and they would imply it but they wouldn't even like give right lower actual like subplot they ruin it in every way and then they add like one little sprinkle of thing to say like first Disney movie that has a gay hug and then they cut it out in China right I would actually say that the character of Flower in original Bambi is about as much representation as gay characters are given in most contemporary Disney movies where they're like, oh, we finally broke the barrier. We have a gay skunk in our movie. And it's like, well, not really ends up with a lady skunk. And, you know, very within within mere moments, I don't know exactly when the debut is, but ah within within years, ah skunk gender is set 50 years back with Pepe Le Pew.
01:55:35
Speaker
oh Boy, yeah, there's there's an essay to be written about skunk gender Gender studies through the prism of cartoon skunks. I would read it. Yeah Some video essayist out there make it happen. There's like not a lot relative to every other Disney movie it feels like, it doesn't seem like there's a lot said about this movie online. I feel like a lot said about this movie in general. I feel like a lot of people recognize Bambi, they recognize that Bambi exists, and it's usually in the context of, wow, so sad when the mom dies. But I feel like Bambi as a character doesn't usually get a lot of, I don't know, I don't see Bambi included in a lot of Disney montages,
01:56:20
Speaker
I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough in terms and like the the Disney canon, especially compared to a lot that like even this era of Disney movies like Snow White, ah Dumbo, like the other ones that we didn't watch them up for the show, but like the the kind of a first couple years of Disney animated features Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it doesn't it doesn't get a lot of a lot of talk. Everyone knows Bambi, but nobody thinks about Bambi. And my advocate, what I say is think about Bambi. yeah The last stretch of the movie, I guess we should, we kind of talked about, right? There's like the he fights with it with another buck. I got to say also in the in the part we were just talking about, the the the the bunny that Thumper falls in love with is Lola bunny colored.
01:57:11
Speaker
that care that's all i Well, that that was also the point where I was like, cartoon female animals are so funny, like, because they always look like this. Also, there was stuffy, some some kind of goofier animation in this. I guess we said talked about that with the owl. but like right flower looking up like gets all rigid. I don't know if that's something to be into. Oh yeah, that's right. That was, it certainly is, but that's like, yeah, the kind of like he turned red in this like thermometer way. Right, yes. Like that is so cartoony in a way that this movie is not in every other way. Right, it like never happens before or after that, yeah.
01:57:51
Speaker
But then, yeah, there's like the big finale, the big like action set piece of the the hunters come back, the attack dogs come out. There's the forest fire that is all ah just so incredibly well animated and is like hey is is thrilling. It's scary. It's scary. Definitely the part of the movie that I remember at the least.
01:58:17
Speaker
And yet it ends with, you know, ah life ah begins anew. You know, with the the following spring, Bambi and what's what's her name? What's the... I just watched this today. This is embarrassing. Lola Bambi. No. Nala. Nala Bambi. Mario Mario.
01:58:42
Speaker
Feline is the female deer that Bambi has children with. ah So Feline has has twins. there's There's a new generation of of deer in the forest. All of the other characters have had had children. And we see sort of like almost a a passing of the antlers, as it were, from the the old great, great prince of the forest to Bambi, who seemingly now is standing in the same place.
01:59:11
Speaker
He is the new great prince of the forest, as was foretold in the opening scene when they all said, a prince has been born. Yeah, like there is a complete mirror of the beginning of the movie in the end of the movie. So there's definitely like a cyclical kind of thing going on here. It's speaking to like the nature, like the nature of, you know, life cycles as it like naturally operates in in the the nature in nature. ah But.
01:59:39
Speaker
I thought it was interesting how, you know, you don't necessarily feel bad toward Bambi's dad in the movie, but you're kind of like, all right, kind of sucks that he's like just kind of off doing his own thing and not around, you know, like like he's this like at like like you feel distant from Bambi's dad. um And, you know, I don't 100 percent know about like the who deer life cycles and yeah yeah like like like deer familial structures but um if i am to assume that this movie is accurately representing deer uh familiar structures i mean um there would be not dissimilar things in other animals but like i thought it was interesting how you know there is a certain
02:00:27
Speaker
uh distance that the audience feels from Bambi's dad in the movie because of his kind of distance and lack of presence and all that kind of thing um and so like i think in like a typical structure you would expect Bambi to like break the cycle you know you would expect Bambi to be like a little bit more of an active father in his children's life right but like he doesn't and I think that's a really interesting choice where like this movie again is not implying our human understandings of things onto the natural world right like um I was watching um
02:01:11
Speaker
the YouTuber Big Joel's video essay about Bambi. I didn't actually finish it, but one thing that he said was like, this movie is basically like, the idea of it is like nature continues, nature operates on its own rhythm in its own cycles. And the only thing that interrupts those cycles is man.
02:01:33
Speaker
Right. There is a harmony to the life and death and patterns of the natural world that is only broken by gunfire and campfire. So but but it's like so weird to me. Like it feels weird because you're watching this movie and you're like.
02:01:52
Speaker
I don't like Bambi's dad and then Bambi becomes his dad in the end of the movie and it's not something that it doesn't feel like like success.
02:02:03
Speaker
you know it it's um it It feels like like you don't once Bambi grows up and becomes the new prince of the forest, you don't see him anymore. You don't see his face anymore. He's just a silhouette in the background like the prince was before. He becomes distant. like He was your point of view. You were Bambi. And then like he is like unmade at the end of the movie as he like graduates to adulthood. like you like he he He is depersonalized.
02:02:35
Speaker
ah but Yeah, but it it does. It does feel kind of like, I mean, partially just like the physicality of it. He is higher than everyone else. It's like he is ascended to almost like Godhood at that point, right? He is the new great prince of the forest. He is the new, you know, Princess Mina K style keeper of the forest. And that that is.
02:02:57
Speaker
Like that that, if anything to me that I might be getting, you know, maybe too artsy fartsy about this, but like it feels reminiscent of like Greek mythology where it's like. like great heroes either die or like ascend to like, you know, become demigods or something or sort of, you know. You either live long enough to become a villain. No, not Batman. But like they often like sort of ascend to another. They go to the Elysian Fields, which is like sort of like heaven, but it's also like a physical place. So it does. It feels a little bit reminiscent of that. I don't know if that's what they were going for. But yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. I don't have that strong feelings about it is
02:03:37
Speaker
But I agree with you where it almost feels it feels that odd with our what we typically expect from like a Disney animated movie like this. Where it's like, oh, we want like the hero to have like a victory and we wanted to have like this feeling of like happily ever after. Right. And it's like, yeah, he's he's kind of gone now. Yeah. His victory is that he has been subsumed back into the natural rhythms of nature. Hmm. Hmm.
02:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, but you've even like with ah I don't hate the ending, like it doesn't feel. I think it's interesting. Yeah, it's like there's something about it that actually I do. I appreciate how much this movie is sort of um both reverential and also kind of like. Deferential, I guess, to nature of like, no, no, like this, this is all working fine the way it is. It's yeah. We are the problem here. Yeah.
02:04:35
Speaker
But it's it's not even saying that, right? like There's like so much of Bambi that is not didactic, it is just like depicting. It is it is just like like, there isn't some big screed in Bambi about, I mean, like there's a little bit with what his mom tells him, but it's like, it isn't going like men have destroyed the forest with their tractors. like like It's not like fern gully or something. you know it's ah it It is just like,
02:05:04
Speaker
men are scary to deers. right And yeah and like we can bring our own ah our own associations and and ah implications from that as are in our position as men, as a man on a podcast. Yeah, sam same, same. Men do better. Stop shooting deer.
02:05:24
Speaker
ah One last thing I have to say about this is that this kind of blows my mind. It doesn't feel real and it's possible that it's not but I did a quick look and it doesn't seem to be but that the idea of if you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all is apparently from this movie.
02:05:43
Speaker
Like, when <unk>pers Thumper is repeating the lesson that his dad told him, yeah, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Apparently, credited to Thumper, that that belongs to Thumper. Thumper, even even more of a even more of a legend than I already thought he was. The legend of Thumper. Yeah. um Damn, that's that's kind of yeah that's kind of nuts.
02:06:11
Speaker
um You said you you couldn't find any any other like you couldn't find anything to the contrary so I could not find I was I was like There's no way and I was like looking for things for the contrary and I could not really find anything definite Wow, I mean, I believe it another movie that has good writing in it is To be or not to be directed by Earth's blue bitch. Isn't that the question?
02:06:35
Speaker
ah Shakespeare em invented a lot of ah turns of phrase and this movie involves Shakespeare plays not the not the guy There you go ah Yeah, this is a sort of a very contemporary Not I don't I wouldn't say ripped from the headlines maybe but it's very like about what is happening in World War two Yeah, which is interesting Yeah, I think it is I think the only way I think in which it kind of suffers is maybe in hindsight in that this is a very silly movie. And 1942 was, as we've briefly stated on this episode, the worst year that has ever happened. I think setting a movie about World War II and about like the Nazis in Poland in 1942 now almost feels like it would have been like in bad taste, but I think when it was in production, I think even when it came out, people were like, is this okay to like laugh at?
02:07:31
Speaker
Like this is very, like people are literally dying every day. Like I don't know if this is great, you know, subject material for like a so ah wacky comedy. I do think this movie does a pretty good job of not not making light of the fact that Nazis are horrifying while still trying to tell a lighthearted story.
02:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that they're, you know, I don't feel that this movie is distasteful, I'll say. I don't either, but I also didn't feel that Jojo Rabbit was distasteful. I know a lot of people did, so. Your mileage maybe. That one was on the edge for me. I think Jojo Rabbit goes further than this movie does towards, like, butting up against bad taste.
02:08:16
Speaker
But ah yeah, this is about ah ah ah theater a theater troop who are ah fighting the Nazis through the power of showbiz. Let's put on a show. it is It's so much of a let's put on a show movie. And the fact that it's a let's put on a show movie to like fuck with the Nazis, yeah I think is is pretty great. like The premise of this movie, I was i was hooked pretty quickly.
02:08:41
Speaker
This movie feels like it's from the future, like circa 1942. I haven't really ah heard of this movie, like relatively speaking, ah yeah before this. like It's not really in the lexicon. i think that like when or or not the lexicon but like the and don't know whatever ah but Like this is a movie that, you know, everyone was like, oh, the producers was really doing this groundbreaking thing and oh like making fun of the Nazis. Yeah. So like they did it while the war was still happening and like, yeah, it was still like a very intense thing.
02:09:19
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, there's like, you know, the Donald Duck cartoons that are like making fun of Hitler or whatever. i mean Like yeah we we did Great Dictator and the the Three Stooges stuff already. Yeah. you know But this is like, yeah, in occupied Poland and like, you know, features, you know, marching Nazis like there's like a much more of like a like a fear in this. It's like it's it's not poking fun, but it is um ah having fun, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it is it is definitely portraying Nazis in a sort of buffoonish, at least some of them in a buffoonish manner, while still acknowledging that even buffoons can be incredibly dangerous. And even the fact that they are buffoons kind of make helps make them dangerous because buffoons are dumb and unpredictable. Right. But it is like, yeah, I think I think this movie doesn't. It feels like it it never loses sight of like the the danger
02:10:14
Speaker
inherent in every scene like the stakes of this movie are incredibly high. Yeah. And you do feel like death hanging over. It's like at any point like these people might be shot. And so that is like.
02:10:26
Speaker
But it's also, fuel it is using that to add comedic stakes to it, too. Yeah, it's it's that kind of tension, like, it it's using it for comedy in that way of, like, when there's a lot of tension and you break the tension, you laugh. Yeah. ah yeah And it it uses that well. i I think there's a lot of, like, laughter in this movie that's, like, kind of uncomfortable, like... ah ah yeah Very advanced comedy, I will say. I mean, I also I do love how much this movie is. I like feels like a fuck you to to Nazis just in general. Like it feels very it feels you can you can feel the contempt, I guess. Yeah, there's like a fucking Nazis. I hate them.
02:11:06
Speaker
not yeah Not that I had any doubts about like big Weimar energy Lubitsch, but like it's nice to see this coming from a German too. Yeah, I do think this, going to this knowing that it was like the Ernst Lubitsch like World War II movie kind of, or it's like his you know comedy about Nazis, I i was i had high hopes. I was like let's see let's see what Lubitsch is gonna do and I was like all right yeah he's he's bringing it still. I think Ernst Lubitsch is maybe One of if not the best filmmakers for portraying flirting on screen. I don't know if anyone's ever really done it better before or since. very Very, very good at it. And there's there's a lot of flirting in this movie, both sort of in a very genuine way and also as like, you know, means to, to very, there's a lot of like seducing back and forth. There's lots of,
02:12:01
Speaker
Misunder misunderstandings lots of hijinks. Yeah, beat basically this movie like kind of it's got a love triangle. We love that. Yes, of course. It does. Lubitsch loves those. This movie is basically like a bunch of actors are about to put on a play. ah A bunch of actors in Poland are about to put on a play about the Nazis. ah But right when they're about to do it, the Nazis invade Poland. Everything starts.
02:12:28
Speaker
Everything first, they're censored, I think. And then the invasion happens. Right. i like But like the government is like, we can't put this on right now because we're worried about it's too dicey Nazis. Yeah.
02:12:41
Speaker
ah But yeah, then the it's a moot point because the the Nazis invade, and then everything, they kind of flash forward for a while. you're like They're existing in this like invaded zone where everything sucks. But then all of these people who have all this acting expertise, all of this romantic tension, and all of these Nazi costumes have have found themselves in this kind like kind of unwittingly kind of like involved in this spy plot against the Nazis, ah which is a great premise. It yeah, it very much is. It felt it reminded me a lot of glorious bastards very much so in in a real sort of like I'm getting real boss baby vibes from this because like obviously this came first when you watching glorious bastards like I would be very surprised if Tarantino didn't and he probably talked about this also if this wasn't one of his big kind of
02:13:37
Speaker
Points of inspiration for that. Um, and having, having watched this movie after a glorious bastards, you almost expect it to go in this historical fiction way that, that, uh, it would have been great. but I wonder if I was thinking like how that would sit in, in the moment, right? Whether it would feel like this inspirational thing or like, like, Oh yay, we killed Hitler or like, but or like, this is how we could do it. Um, or if it was just like, oh, we're still,
02:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's like we're still kind of in the shit right now, and yeah Hitler isn't dead. So this feels more tasteless, you know? Right. Yeah. Right. It is like Inglorious Basterds is like, you know, ah defeating the Nazis through the power of cinema, whereas this is like through the power of the stage of the theater. Alas, poor Yorick. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They never do. a lot They never get to a less poor Yorick in this do that. They only do that that to be or not to be speech. And that one keeps getting interrupted.
02:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. Because there's a great recurring gag of the... I have not seen Hamlet in quite some time. Is that the same monologue? Does it start with the last poor York and then get to to be or not to be? I feel like it does. And I feel very dumb for not knowing this off the top of my head. So yell at me. I think it's possible. It's possible. I'm uncultured. All right. I've only seen Hamlet the one time. All right. I think I read it once. Maybe also.
02:15:03
Speaker
Anyway, I've only seen The Simpsons one. A lot of spy stuff in this one. um There is a young baby faced Robert Stack of um and and unsolved mysteries fame as the the young Polish pilot, who is the sort of one one end of the love triangle. There's like the married couple who are actors. And then there's this pilot who has a crush on the the conference her name. I don't have any names today. I'm sorry.
02:15:32
Speaker
It's OK. Carol Lombard, Maria Tura. Right. Carol Lombard, which I mean, I don't know. We should talk about this right now. This is her last movie because ah she died in a plane crash in 1942. And it was ah it was it was in the news. People were very upset about it. I don't know if I'd seen a lot of other Carol Lombard movies. um I think she's very good in this. Yeah, she's great in this. I dont think I've seen a lot of Jack Benny movies either, if any.
02:16:02
Speaker
um And yeah, like the the the cast on this is pretty pretty solid like it's pretty stacked well True so yeah, they're they're the the three ends of the love triangle the the title I guess is mostly referring to the fact that like I that to be or not to be part of the monologue is was his sort of like code, his activation code phrase to leave the audience and then go meet up in the dressing room. And that was messing up Jack Benny as Joseph's, you know, he kept seeing this guy leave the audience every time he was doing his his big dramatic monologue. Jack Benny, by the net with the way, another big name that that I think we're seeing for the first time here.
02:16:50
Speaker
Right, yeah, it's like, I feel like there are a lot of kind of big, you know, Hollywood stars, which I, I was aware, like I never heard the name Jack Benny and Carol Lombard, but wasn't really that familiar with their actual movies. But so there's there's red. So there's all this kind of built in romantic tension that then is sort of layered atop all of this spy tension that then also Karl Lombard's character, Maria, is then kind of trying to seduce this ah turncoat ah professor who's who's a double agent um and is is going to give all of all of the names of the like the friends of the Air Force to the Nazis if if they let him get this information through to the Gestapo.
02:17:39
Speaker
And so they're all, you know, the whole spy plot is we got to make sure that this guy doesn't get his information to the Nazis and also we need to kill him because he sucks and he's a double agent. And there's a lot of a lot of disguises. They end up ah killing him too early. So then they have to take his place.
02:17:58
Speaker
Um, and then that becomes the whole thing. And there's like, Oh, the gag involved finding the corpse and shaving the corpse's face. That's so good. It's so good. It's like really good, like fast thinking. I don't want to ruin it. I feel like but it's like, yeah it's like it's such a good gag, like of and like such a well thought out, like spy thing, spy comedy thing of like, how do you.
02:18:24
Speaker
Like you might be just discovered as the the fake yeah when when they have maybe when they've discovered the corpse of the guy that you're pretending to be. There's so much like a knife's a literal knife's edge of like people almost being discovered in ah in a disguise or like playing a character and and also just like, you know, things where someone is pretending to be someone else and then the real person shows up and it's like, oh, no, what are they going to do now?
02:18:55
Speaker
And that's like, I think the movie just sustains that kind of gag for almost its entire runtime. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. I feel like, right, we almost want to avoid like just like naming a bunch of jokes because it's like, no, go watch the movie. Like we both saw, we both know it's funny.
02:19:15
Speaker
Yeah, watch watch Lubitsch movies. Yeah, the the writing in this is definitely a ah real stand out, I think, like just all I mean, the the twists and turns, but just like a lot of a lot of fun dialogue stuff, too. And also just like, I mean, I feel like talk about this more maybe in the next movie, but it it feels this movie feels. For coming out in 1942, it feels, I think, more kind of daring than it It would, I think like having looked at the news and sort of like getting, having a real context of like what was happening and in in the world in 1942, this movie feels more, yeah, just kind of ballsier than I think. Had I watched it cold, I'm like, oh, this is an old movie. Yeah, it was happening during the war, but like, whatever. it just it it I felt the weight of it, I guess, and and the sort of like how much it was,
02:20:11
Speaker
It was very much like and and not a great comparison because it's also much better movie than this. But like the the what's the what's the Seth Rogen North Korea movie? ah The interview that was oh that was banned briefly. Yeah. Yeah. I think you were saying that the interview was better than the smoothie. No, no, no. I don't think the interview is pretty great movie, but I was all right. I was also very mad when it you know, got pulled from a bunch of theaters because it was like, we can't we can't annoy North Korea too much. It's the only time ah but it's the only time it's ever happened where going to my job made me feel like a like a hero. Yeah, I showed up. Yeah. the only The only time seeing a Seth Rogen movie made me feel like a hero. But um so, yeah, not not a maybe not great comparison, but still the sort of thing where it's like there's actual sort of like
02:21:10
Speaker
I don't know, tension to just this movie existing, I guess. But I think it also just makes me happy. Like The Great Dictator. The Great Dictator came out two years before this movie and it was so... I think that movie feels like much more daring than this one, even. Yeah. Especially because, yeah, like nobody wanted Chaplin to make it and he was just like, no, I hate Hitler. I'm going to make this movie. yeah Also, Chaplin had so much clout that he was just like, I can do whatever I want. I'm like, you can't stop me because I'm charging. Yeah.
02:21:38
Speaker
A bit I really like where they're using a sort of theater ah spotlight as a searchlight. Yeah, that was cool. It feels like it's sort of drawing a parallel between like you know showbiz and and like war, I guess. ah Out there on the stage, it's war.
02:21:57
Speaker
But that's the kind of joke that this movie is into. There is a very funny, I thought, off screen gunshot towards the end of this movie, where like the head of the Gestapo in Warsaw is like being confronted with the fact that he's going to like take the fall for all this goofy bullshit that's happened. And like the characters leave and he's still in the room and we just hear a gunshot off screen like, oh, I guess he just shot himself. But then he yells again. So it's like, wait, did he? So.
02:22:26
Speaker
Maybe take him the piss out of that a little bit. But he yells Schultz a lot, which I don't know if if Hogan's Heroes stole that from this movie or not. But maybe I've never seen Hogan's Heroes.
02:22:39
Speaker
I've seen... That's ah that's another thing that has been accused of being tasteless. I mean, it is pretty wild that that was like, came out very soon after World War II and it's like a sitcom. It's so, so silly. Yeah. That I think, like the the few amounts of Hogan's Heroes, I think Hogan's Heroes is kind of a fun show because it is a sitcom, but it it does often feel in bad taste because it's like, we're having like a football game or whatever. And it's like, no, that was not happening. Yeah.
02:23:08
Speaker
The Nazis were not the mean dean of the school. Robot house. Yeah. But ah but this movie I thought was a lot of fun. Yeah. What was the movie? Let's see. I feel like we watched another movie that had ah Nazis in it and then the main characters didn't like the Nazis. Hmm. Not a movie that anyone's ever heard of really, though, I don't think.
02:23:36
Speaker
No, definitely not Big Daddy material.
02:23:41
Speaker
Why did we make that what it's called? Because i made him I made a mistake and you didn't let it go. Yeah, it's true. It's my fault. I'll take the hit on that one. ah Casablanca. Heard of it? Forget it, kid. It's Casablanca. That's what they say in this movie.
02:24:00
Speaker
They are the only thing before a 2 movie. It premiered in December and didn't really go wide until 43, but it is generally considered. 42 movie, even though it won the Oscar run. if It we won the Oscar for engine 43. So whatever. But we're talking about it for you to now today. Casablanca. Yeah. You were like, you were like, oh, we need to record right now because I got so much to say about Casablanca. Like unleash me. I was talking about Casablanca. I Casablanca spoilers. Very good movie. Like. Yeah. Hachi machi.
02:24:38
Speaker
what a gotchi macchi directed by michael curtiz who I feel like i at this point in his career, I feel like he's more of like a swashbuckling guy, right? He's like making cat bloods and Robin Hoods and stuff. And this is like a um a much more kind of serious drama compared to those.
02:24:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I like this better than his other two movies we've seen. I mean, me too. Okay. Like I like this movie more than a lot of other movies because it's Casablanca and it is incredible. Like.
02:25:11
Speaker
Hot take there. I mean, I'd seen this before I think more than once. I mean, for a number of reasons. I think this it like really hit for me watching it for the show. I was like, holy shit. Casablanca is an incredible movie. The vibes that are established in this movie are immaculate. Yeah. I mean, this is this is a movie where I'm just like, there isn't really a week spot in it. I'm just like, yeah, everything comes together. So kind of perfectly and magically. And it was also a movie that was kind of thrown together as like, oh, yeah, we're making another one of these, like, you know, it wasn't treated as like it was treated as like, we're going to try to make a good movie out of this. But it was like, I think there's a lot of stories about how it was at least treated by the studio or, you know, in production that it was like kind of churned out a little bit as like
02:26:04
Speaker
We're going to kind of make a ah ah drama about, you know, the contemporary. I think it was it came out like right after the Allied invasion of North Africa. So they were like, we got to make a North Africa set movie.
02:26:17
Speaker
I don't know if they knew about that while they were making it or if that was just release I don't know but it was like a much a much better and I think much more successful movie than anyone kind of expected it to be I think similarly to To be or not to be only I think in a much I felt that a lot stronger watching Casablanca this sort of ah the context of which of like of when it was made and and how much it feels like a real kind of, um I think Castle Blanca especially because it, Castle Blanca is a much darker movie than to be or not to be in the sense that it is a drama instead of a comedy. And it is like, it is a it is a movie built on so much like the the idea of sort of like wild hope of like having hope in the face of like overwhelming odds and sort of like,
02:27:08
Speaker
being surrounded by just so much, so many reasons not to have hope. It's a movie that, you know, ah and i'm like yeah and ninety four excuse they didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah.
02:27:22
Speaker
it it it's it you know It's a little cliche to say that a movie about Nazis reminds us of our times, but like you know this is a movie that is about ah overcoming the disillusionment that you feel um in the face of all of the horrors that you feel like you can't make a dent on in the world. Yeah. which yeah It was that exact feeling that like hit me so much watching this, and I like really felt in my bones Right, there's a line towards the end of the movie. I feel like I don't know how much the plot we need to get into because it's Casablanca. Everyone knows what happens in Casablanca. I certainly don't. Go watch Casablanca. I mean, I didn't. I didn't when I watched this. Have you not seen Casablanca before?
02:28:03
Speaker
Nope. First time watch. Oh, dang. Seeing it seeing in context, baby. Nice. And did it did it live up to the hype? It's real good. It's a really I mean, I would agree with you that there is not a weak spot in the movie. Yeah, I want to watch it again for sure. It was actually playing at a theater like two days ago here and I should have seen it, but I i should have watched it, but I didn't. um But so like there's there's a line towards the end where ah Victor, the the Resistance member, says to to Rick, Hunter Bograt's character, like this time we're we're gonna we're gonna beat them, like we're gonna win. Sort of in the context of this movie makes references to a lot of like historical events that had happened through like the mid to late 1930s of like part of Rick's backstory and the reason why he is so cynical throughout most of the movie is that
02:28:57
Speaker
They talk about, oh, you know, when Victor meets him, he's like, I've done i've done my research on you, right? He's like, looked his looked up his backstory. And it's like, oh, you you ran guns in Ethiopia when when Italy was invading, and then you you fought in the Spanish Civil War on the loyalist side against the the fascists. And both of those were fascist victories, right? Both of them were a fascist country was invading or taking over their own country, and they won.
02:29:25
Speaker
And so Rick has been through those experiences. Now it's sort of like spread to more parts of the world. Right. He moved to France. France gets invaded also. That gets, you know, occupied at the same time. He then like loses and feels betrayed by this woman that he's fallen in love in love with.
02:29:45
Speaker
And so by the time we see him in the beginning of the movie when he's in Casablanca running his cafe, cafe slash, you know, nightclub, which like that place is so cool. I want to, I want to hang out place in the world. Yeah. Rick's cafe American seems like the coolest place to hang out.
02:30:02
Speaker
I feel like Rick in this movie is kind of um like the movie cliche, like a cynical character. He's he's really jaded. He doesn't believe in anything. He has no like any time so much to make like an ah emotional appeal to him. Like he's like, I literally don't give a shit. Yeah, he's like, I don't give a shit. I care only about myself. Like that's the only that's the only my end goal is only like how can I just like serve myself in this situation. I have zero empathy for anyone else around me except for maybe Sam who's my good friend.
02:30:35
Speaker
You can see that he has principles and there are ways that I think like his portrayal of himself as an unfeeling guy like through especially throughout the movie you start to like oh yeah you see it You start to see it peel away. You see like at his heart. He is an idealist who has fought for all of these sort of like idealist idealistic Causes right and he's lost every single time right every day time he tries to fight against fascism or fight for an ideal that he believes in and He loses, right? he like he And then, you know, he falls in love with a woman and and she leaves and he feels betrayed by by that. And he's like, I have lost the love of my life. Fuck it. Like I'm not going to be like I'm not going to care about anyone ever again. Yeah. And it's like yeah I kind of get it. Like after all of that, I'm like, yeah, he's an asshole. I'm like, you know what? I because also.
02:31:28
Speaker
I have been feeling pretty cynical about this the state of the world and the state of the United States as a country lately, for no reason in particular. And I feel like this movie is sort of like stance of like, yeah, that is a reasonable way to respond, but it is also kind of, if not cowardly, at least like it's sticking your head in the sand.
02:31:54
Speaker
right now and that sometimes like like the more that you do that like the more it will arrive on your door eventually yes that too and then right so slowly we're seeing sort of more and more little moments of Rick sort of like revealing that he is an idealist at at heart. I think one of the like biggest moments of seeing through to his character his true character is ah when the cafe is shut down and he is like
02:32:25
Speaker
trying to make sure that he has he's like going to burn through all of the money that he has left so that he can continue to pay his staff while it's shut down. And it's like, oh, you're such a goody Rick. Yeah. And he's like, it feels like more and more like the he starts doing the more and more throughout the movie. And especially early on, it it feels like he's like doing it kind of.
02:32:48
Speaker
in a curmudgeonly way, like he's begrudgingly ah' been like, all right, fine. I'll like help you out. And like, don't ask again, you know? And then like more and more were like, oh, no, he likes this. Like he does like helping. But the the the point that I started this off on is like, there's the line at the end of the movie where Victor tells Rick like this, right, this time we're going to beat him. And yet like they didn't.
02:33:11
Speaker
1942, that was like, that was an actual like act of optimism. There was no guarantee that they would. Yeah. Yeah. There's a feeling right. Like they didn't know in 1942, if anything, there was so much evidence to the contrary at that point. Like the turning point hadn't really happened yet. They had to believe in it. Right. And it's like the the fact that this movie is so built on this idea of just like optimism and in the face of like overwhelming evil is like, oh,
02:33:41
Speaker
it really it it It really got me. And it's it is schmaltzy. This movie is schmaltzy as hell. It is like it is like the the the poster for Hollywood schmaltz, right? And yet I don't feel like it it doesn't feel... It feels earned in this movie, I guess, when it yeah gets... when it when that When there's sweeping music, when it's like... you know When he's saying goodbye at the at the airport, it is like it feels very...
02:34:07
Speaker
earned It doesn't feel manipulative. It doesn't feel um forced. It's like, no, this is a real moment between characters that we've that have layers that have are making decisions that don't feel easy for either of them.
02:34:24
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It's so earned, I don't even think of it as schmaltz. It's like, you know, I think schmaltz is like, it has no substance. like but Like, this is just feeling. It's just genuine, like genuine sentiment, not sentimentality. Yes, sentiment is by a better word because schmaltz I think does have a real negative negative connotation. I think sentiment is something that some people I think view kind of negatively, especially in movies that I i I mean, you know, I love Spielberg. I love Casablanca. I like Sentiment in my movies, clearly. Another like famous scene in this movie that I think like hit me a bit harder than I expected to is like the the scene where Victor gets the band to play was the the the French national anthem, right?
02:35:08
Speaker
yeah which felt very like the grand illusion like this i mean it felt almost like they were like maybe maybe you'll doing a little riff riffing on that riffing on that yeah because it is very similar and it's the same piece of music but yeah i don't know just the the the idea right that it isn't like I was very just caught up in this idea that like when this movie came out, it was not like, oh yeah, World War II. We got this beat. We got this handled. like Maybe that was the prevailing idea in the United States because that's like what people needed to hear in order to like get behind the war effort. But like they didn't know. Yeah.
02:35:49
Speaker
ah But also, like we haven't even mentioned like the incredible dynamite supporting catch of this movie. they're like the I think that the romantic story works really well. It's like simultaneously, incredibly... it's like ah It does a thing that I think is very impressive. that it like It gets you to a point where you you want desperately to see the two characters end up together, and then it makes them not ending up together feel like a happy ending. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, God damn it, movie. That was good.
02:36:22
Speaker
Okay, you thought he died and then he found out that he didn't die. I get it. Yeah, it has like, Claude Raines plays such a huge piece of shit in this movie and yet at the end of the movie you're like, hell yeah, dude, this guy rules.
02:36:36
Speaker
It's like, we got him. I mean, even that's the thing, right? It's like not just I was going to call Sam Spade ah like that is might as well be his. It's not just his cynicism that's defeated. It's the guy whose cynicism is so strong that he becomes a Nazi collaborator like he's the one who is defeated also.
02:36:57
Speaker
um Yeah, like he does horrible things in that movie, but it almost feels like he redeems himself in that one moment. Such a like nice Hollywood movie moment where you're just like, ah, like. Which I also big credit to Claude Rains for like getting that character to work that way, because I don't think a lot of other actors could have pulled off that as well.
02:37:25
Speaker
Um, I mean, this is probably, this is probably the thing Claude Rains is best known for. Like Invisible Man is probably pretty close, but I feel like in terms of his entire filmography, it's like, I mean, pretty much anyone who's in this movie, this is their most famous movie. I don't know if that's really, I think this is their most famous movie made out of their most famous role, like Conrad Veidt, who plays the the Nazi general or whatever.
02:37:50
Speaker
His most famous role is probably, for sure, the Sun Ambulance from Caligari. Yeah. um Also just cool to see him show. I think this was his last movie also. His last movie, really? I'm remembering correctly. Yeah. Yeah. Last film role to be released in his lifetime.
02:38:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he's very good in this playing a like very classical like Nazi villain guy who's just, you know, very ah and a sort of aristocratic and and mean to everyone he needs. Well, if we're talking about ah supporting characters to Glenn's Glenn's MVP, I feel like it is always going to be Peter Lorre. Also, again, like maybe not Peter Lorre's like most famous role, but like This is also like as quintessential Peter Lorre as you're likely to get. Yeah. Is this Ugarte. and where He's just like right. ah He's a real kind of like slippery character. You know, he's sort of like he's definitely a criminal, but you're not even sure entirely what kind of criminal he is.
02:38:56
Speaker
He's just the kind of guy that is always, you know, he's got some shady deal going on somewhere. yeah And he isn't even in the movie very much. I actually was kind of surprised how quickly he's he's ah taken out, taken away. Take him away, Sam. Yeah.
02:39:13
Speaker
That's that famous line that isn't in the movie. Yeah, because it's played against. but again yeah i' Not in the movie. Yes. People often say play it or play the song or play as time goes by or hey, Sam, how are you? But like no one says doing in that song, Sam. Yeah. i told you not play that I told you not to play that song. Also, right, just like that piece of music as like the thing that is like representative of their like past failed romance is it feels like so well. It's like such a good thing because it's like it's like pet couples will get a song that's like yeah their song. Right. Yeah.
02:39:56
Speaker
And it and it it captures this melancholic feeling of hearing your couple's song after the fact, right? Yes. It's why he banned it from the bar. He's like, I can't deal with it. like i write But then also, once he hears it again he and and he meets her again for the first time in years, he's like, play that song on loop while I drink a whole bottle.
02:40:19
Speaker
Yeah, because it makes him so sad, right? It's like he yeah he doesn't want to confront his feelings. He's gruff. He is detached. He doesn't want to confront his feelings. But like he's also like maybe part of the reason why he doesn't want to confront his feelings is because of his tendency toward negativity. And so once he gets the opportunity to listen to that song, he just hurts himself over and over by listening to it.
02:40:43
Speaker
ah good movie i think that like um you know we talked about like the ways that his kind of ah the ways that he's putting on a show of being detached and everything are like broken down by us seeing that he's actually a good and nice guy like the one one of the most like you know impactful individual moments of that are is just like when he is confronted with his with his lost love, right? He crumbles. He crumbles. Yeah, immediately. He is a mess.
02:41:19
Speaker
Like he has such a polished exterior that is just gone. Yeah. Right. They have like that first meeting scene where they're in the cafe and Victor's there. But then like there's the later scene where she comes back, which also like that reveal the leg in this movie, impeccable. Holy shit. This movie looks so good. There's the bit right where he's sitting in the in the bar at his bar in the dark at after hours and the door opens and she's like backlit in the doorway and it's like, oh, she's back.
02:41:48
Speaker
And they have just this, like, this is their first, like, real honest conversation that they've had. And it is it is, he is just like... spewing venom at her he is just like so angry and so he can't let go of this feeling of betrayal that he had that he that she kind of let left him in the night with leaving a sort of very vague ah cryptic note saying like sorry sorry I love you bye I'll you'll never talk to me again and I can't say why
02:42:19
Speaker
Yeah. And so, he again, rightfully, I'm like, yeah, I'd be maybe a little, a little, a little peeved also. You mentioned the lighting and like ah ah one kind of quick note is that there's a disco ball in this movie. I don't know about the history of disco balls, but like I was like, OK, they existed in the early 40s. Maybe this movie invented the disco ball. I don't think. Ingrid Bergman, also, I think the first thing we want for the show with with her.
Casablanca & Cultural Influence
02:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, another big name right in this movie. I definitely I mean, I'd seen I've seen this before I'd seen other Ingrid Bergman things. I am definitely kind of reminded of Isabella Rossellini, particularly the voice. I can I can kind of hear the the lineage there.
02:43:06
Speaker
But I yeah I think like talking about like a burger disability wrote or not as well recently talking about every Bogart and um Ingrid Bergman in this movie is a bit like what are we going to say that hasn't been said already? Like they're very good. They're very good. They're heartbreaking. You know, all all of that. But yeah, this movie gets, I think, the feeling of like romantic melancholy really well, this feeling of like ache and like hurt, but also like there's still there's still an undeniable kind of like attraction there where they were just like, ah, like. Damn it, like i I have all this pain layered atop all of my like romantic feelings and just kind of trying to like sift through all of those. Yeah, not knowing how to deal with these feelings because it's just like so many conflicting things going on at at once. Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, I think it does a ah really good job of sort of like putting that up on screen without
02:44:05
Speaker
I don't know, without a feeling, yeah, to kind of dishonest or or overly like dramatized, like it it feels it feels pretty. I mean, the acting styles are maybe a little exaggerated because it's the 40s, but it feels as real as any and as any emotion that I've really seen on screen at this point.
02:44:25
Speaker
Who else is in this movie? Sydney Greenstreet. He's in there. Straight off of Maltese Falcon. Yeah, a lot of Maltese Falcon sort of ah alums in this movie. A big point of reference, I think ah probably the first way that we were both maybe introduced to this movie was through one of its big cultural ah influences, which is Grim Fandango. Yeah. The LucasArts adventure game from the late 90s, which is... What do we got in Grim Fandango? Also a Masto piece.
02:44:55
Speaker
Masto piece we got the yeah we got the suit we got the um we got the gambling announcer guy yeah We got but we got like some of the same window she believes We have playing the piano we have ah ah you know ah Reconnecting with the lost love after a long time we have ah Owning a big nightclub in a sort of ah transient sort of limbo. No location where people are traveling to somewhere else, and it is very difficult for them to get somewhere else. um Yeah, Grim Fandango has I mean, a whole large chunk of Grim Fandango is just Casablanca, like almost verbatim, and it doesn't try to hide that at all. As as a fellow Grim Fandango appreciator, I feel like it's it's worth mentioning and talking about how much
02:45:47
Speaker
That game was probably my first actual like exposure to Casablanca. Yeah. And you you brought me Grim Fandango. My Grim Fandango discs are burned from your Grim Fandango. Wow. I'm the original. um Burned from the original. Yeah. ah the Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much I have to say about it, but like, you know, you you bring up an interesting thing in that reference to Grim Fandango that like that I was thinking about with this is that like Casablanca, it's a liminal baby. Like it is like a like
02:46:22
Speaker
I feel like liminal is one of those words that you can just throw out to sound smart, but like, I don't know how much I have to say about the liminality of Casablanca. I mean, he is in a, I guess, like a liminal space in his emotions, right? Like he is- This movie is about like the idea of a liminal space. Right, it's like, yeah, it's I like all of these people who are not able to- I flee, they're- I not trying to flee to Casablanca,- they're fleeing
02:46:51
Speaker
from their countries through Casablanca to be to to get to where they're trying to go, like America or something like that. um and so like Yeah, like like he is stuck in a transitionary space, I guess. And then ah like he is also stuck like in his emotions. Right. He hasn't gotten over something. Yeah. But also like his emotions, he sort of made peace with his transitionary state. Right. He is sort of like he's comfortable in Casablanca. He owns a nightclub. He's got a tuxedo. He's like running things. Right. Everyone respects him more or less like Manny Calavera.
02:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But I it's funny, I don't know if I'd made that direct of connection between those like his his physical circumstances are very representative of his emotional state. um Yet another thing that makes this a good movie. i Talking about the the the famous ending a bit where right where it's like he he sends Victor and Elsa off to be together because they're married.
02:47:58
Speaker
And because the Hays Code, under the Hays Code rules, they can't actually end up together because she's still married. ah Like that is kind of a funny thing about this movie is you're like, oh, what's going to happen? And it's like that according to the Hays Code, they can't end up together unless Victor is killed. Which does happen sometimes.
02:48:14
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. I read that originally the movie ended where right he sends them off on the plane and then Rick is arrested. It had more of a sort of like downbeat. Oh, no. i one More of a sacrificial thing. I'm glad that they soften it and that they just shoot the Nazi general and they're like, all right, as someone did it. Who knows? Go go arrest somebody.
02:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that like that's interesting because it's like, you know, like we were talking about with this movie being inspirational, right? Like we got and we're going to win. We got to keep fighting. Like I like somehow makes corruption ah like a tear moment. Yeah. But like.
02:48:55
Speaker
I think that this movie doesn't feel propagandistic but and it doesn't feel like shallow but like that inspirational aspect of it I don't think would work quite so well if really if it was more ah because I think Rick getting arrested is more of like a ironic ending ah like I sacrificed myself and it's like the end of a story but like I feel like with him with him teaming up with the corrupt cop so that they can take down more Nazis. like like It's like, hell yeah. like like yes It ends on a hell yeah moment, which is crazy for a movie that had just previously been like, oh, so tragic. yeah like this movie I think this movie ends up being feeling both very, like it feels very tragic and yet it also feels very comforting and kind of triumphant.
02:49:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm, again is one of a thing where I'm just like damn like how did they pull that off? And then yet a lot of a lot of dialogue in this movie is very famous by most notably at the line that isn't in the movie which we are talked about but read the but Right up the usual suspects is a famous line from this movie ah I think there's the beginning of a beautiful friendship is a famous line. Mm-hmm. There's a a bunch more Here's looking at you kid is that one? Which I don't understand what that means. Honestly, like it's like it's like a it's like a toast. It's like, hey, here's Here's to looking at you kind of yeah, it's just what it's weird that understands a Sort of shorthand that they or that he says to her at least he says it when he looks at her and likes her but like yes
02:50:34
Speaker
He's describing what he's doing. but Yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm like, is he saying I'm looking at you? like i thought I'm looking at you, kid. I don't under have the same ring to it. I don't understand what that line means. Like, I feel like it's supposed to be this really like impactful line. And I get that I get part of the feeling of it with the relationship. But I'm just like, I was so bogged down by like, what does that mean? Like, I don't know.
02:51:03
Speaker
Yeah, i I wish I could describe it better. I feel like it's one of those things that just it it's it's how it feels. You know, a line in this movie that I guess is kind of famous that I love is when ah like Captain Renaud Claude Rains, he's like he's told by the Nazis like you have to shut down the Ricks Cafe music aren't fine.
02:51:26
Speaker
And so then he's like, ah, you're all under arrest. I've just learned that there's been gambling happening. I'm shocked to learn that there's gambling happening here. And then someone comes up to me and goes, here are your winnings. And he goes, oh, thank you, thank you. And just jumps them in his pocket. It's good. because It's very good. now like That one exchange like sums up that entire character, Robost, that he's like, you know oh, dear, gambling, you're all under arrest. Oh, yeah thank you for my winnings from all the gambling I've been doing.
02:51:50
Speaker
he Claude Rains is so good at playing different types of scoundrels. Like yes like like he's so scummy in this movie and yet he's he somehow remains likable. Yeah, yeah.
02:52:03
Speaker
Also, there's ah this isn't even a pretty famous line, but one that I thought was very fun is when Rick is talking to the um the head Nazi guy. ain't he's He's sort of like, ah, but what would you think if we were to invade America? And he's like, well, there are certain sections of New York that I wouldn't advise you to invade. And I'm like, this this is a pretty good line. That's a good line, yeah. Yeah.
02:52:28
Speaker
And I'm like, ooh, what sections of New York is he talking about? What are the dangerous sections, or at least the ones with a bunch of people, a bunch of Spider-Man extras? Brooklyn, baby. You messed with one of us. You messed with all of us. Yeah. Hell yeah. I say that through the Nazis. I was inspired by that bit in Spider-Man and Casablanca.
Classic Film Discussion
02:52:52
Speaker
Yeah, I guess we've covered the big,
02:52:55
Speaker
Stuff right ah some classic my expertise shadow work in this movie of like silhouettes and sort of stuff projected on on walls hmm Yeah, good movie Casablanca. You know what I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go out there and be dangerous and say the Casablanca good movie It's been a while, I guess, since we've been able to call a classic an unambiguously bad movie, right? Like like maybe Birth of a Nation or Intolerance or something. Even Intolerance, there's maybe debateability. But it's like, it is nice to to watch these classic movies and go like, ah, yes, this is why it's a classic. This is why everyone loves it. I've been totally TCM-pilled. Yeah.
02:53:44
Speaker
I think this more than more than most other like, you know, classics. This one is I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Like this one deserves to be one of the most famous movies ever because it's incredible. It's great. Here's the great like, also, damn, that should be the end. I had another thing to say, but I ruined it.
02:54:08
Speaker
ah um Very, very quickly, one last bit is just that ah the I went to the Academy Museum in L.A. and they had a bunch of stuff from this movie. They had the piano that Sam is playing. um And they pointed out and in that exhibit how much it is like this is a very international movie of like a lot of the a lot of the cast and crew are from all over the world. And that is a cool thing to see. um and in any move, but especially like a movie like this that is is about sort of this right limbo city and it's like ah such a melting pot and there's just like
02:54:46
Speaker
But it's not just like we cast a bunch of British actors to do accents. It's like everyone actually is kind of like from different places in the world, which is cool. Yeah, yeah. Quite an international movie like Rush Hour 2. Yeah, exactly. Exactly the movie I would compare to Casablanca. Rush Hour 2 is kind of my barometer for any movie. Rush Hour 2 is not Rush Hour 1, Rush Hour 2.
02:55:11
Speaker
I like them both. I think Wayne's World 1 and Wayne's World 2 are kind of like in the same kind of situation as Rush Hour 1 and Rush Hour 2, where it feels like they're... Rush Hour 2 is a funnier name drop. It's a funnier movie to cite. That is precisely why I said Rush Hour 2 instead of Rush Hour. But yeah, they're both ah ah of of more or less equal quality. but ah Anyway, Casablanca, good movie. So, Chris, what was your favorite movie of 1942? My favorite movie of 1942, you know, it was probably Casablanca. I have a lot of love for Bambi. I have a lot of love for To Be or Not To Be. um But Casablanca is just a very, very fine film.
02:56:05
Speaker
It is. ah ah you You got to you got to respect it. You got to hand it to it. Yeah, I mean, same same here. Like it was also my favorite movie of 1942. Big surprise there. Casablanca. Good movie. um I think going into it.
02:56:22
Speaker
I was like coming in real hot for cat people because I had seen it before and I was like, cat people, good movie. But then I watched Bambi and I was like, holy shit, Bambi might be my favorite. And then I watched Casablanca and I was like, nevermind, nevermind Casablanca all the way. Oh, you went through a journey. yeah Yeah, I had all lots of ups and downs, but like it's Casablanca, man. it's like It's like synonymous with like classical Hollywood movies, you know? If you're going to pick something to be like, this is movies, I feel like It's usually Casablanca. I can't argue with that. Bambi, very good, very interesting, very innovative. To be or not to be? Very fun, very funny. Yeah, also very good. Cat people, very innovative. The the classic line, forget it, kid. It's Casablanca.
02:57:11
Speaker
wait Forget it, kid. It's also Chinatown. What?
02:57:18
Speaker
Cause forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown, is the Chinatown line. Oh, that's right, yeah. I forgot about Jake. There's so many iconic lines in Casablanca that you're now just adding more in, it you know. That classic line, Ilse, I am your father. That classic line, we're gonna need a bigger cafe.
02:57:43
Speaker
ah Well, that's it. thank you for Thank you for listening to another long, long episode of One Week One Year. Whoa, you're toasting. Oh, wait. I was going to say, here's here is but we keep we keep botching this. I'm looking at you, kid. It was originally that in the script. It was, I see you, Jake Sully. Yes.
02:58:10
Speaker
Hand waterfall. Yeah. ah One week, one year. Thanks for listening. Yeah. Subscribe and stuff. I hope you liked our our discussions of um ah sexy skunks and ah and ah manic pixie witches and ah and Nazis.
02:58:31
Speaker
And if that doesn't sum up what our podcast is, I guess that nothing else does. All right, well, that'll do it. Here's looking at you, Glenn. I'll see you next year. See you next year.