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Free Weekly Episode - Zlatan Ibrahimovic Retires, José Mourinho Stays At Roma, Relegation Playout, Our Serie A Awards, Fiorentina v West Ham Conference League Final Preview & Much More (Ep. 331)
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From AC Milan striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic hanging up his boots, José Mourinho suggesting he will stay at Roma, Hellas Verona vs Spezia Serie A play-out drama, The Italian Football Pocast Serie A Season Awards, to Italy U20 FIFA World Cup exploits and previewing the Conference League final between Fiorentina and West Ham much, much more as Nima and Carlo break down all the talking points from an absolutely action packed weekend of Italian football.
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Transcript
Introduction and Serie A Season Finale Preview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Italian football podcast. I'm Carlo Garganese here as always with Nima Tavalli. So there we have it, the 2022-23 Serie A season is now over.
Recap of Serie A Season's Final Weekend
00:00:23
Speaker
Well, almost over. There is still a play out to be played this weekend to decide who will be the final team relegated from Serie A into Serie B. But the final match day of the Serie A season has been played this past weekend and there is so much to talk about today. I don't know how we're going to fit it all in. But the European places have all been settled.
00:00:48
Speaker
The final relegation place, as I said, will be decided in a one-match play-out, but it was an absolutely thrilling match day with regards to Spezia's game and Verona's game.
00:01:06
Speaker
It was on the line right until the final seconds of those matches, but it will go to a play out. So we're going to discuss that thrilling match day.
Farewells to Legends and Conference League Preview
00:01:15
Speaker
We also have some legends of the game playing their final matches before leaving.
00:01:21
Speaker
or before retiring. So we're going to discuss about that. The futures of a number of Serie A coaches. Some seem to have been resolved, others not. So we're going to be talking about all the coaching carousel in Serie A. We'll also preview the conference league final, which takes place on Wednesday between Fiorentina and West Ham.
00:01:43
Speaker
And we will do our own Serie A awards for the season, the team of the season, the best and the worst throughout the league for the course of this past season. So there's lots and lots to talk about today.
Supporting the Podcast and Engaging the Audience
00:01:56
Speaker
But for all our first time listeners, this is our free weekly episode, which we do every Monday reviewing the weekend Serie A action and all the biggest talking points in Italian football. If you want to support the Italian football podcast, receive all our content that we do throughout the week.
00:02:11
Speaker
including a weekly Q&A episode every Tuesday where we answer all your questions that were sent in by you the patrons and the weekly Thursday midweek review show plus interviews post-match reaction and much much more then go to patreon.com slash TIP and become a subscriber for just $2.99 a month plus VAT.
00:02:30
Speaker
For all of you that are listening on Spotify, on iTunes, on Apple Podcasts, we'd really appreciate it. Give us a five-star rating. Give us a follow and subscribe to us as this really helps us to grow. You can also check us out on YouTube as well. We're on all the social media accounts as well. Okay, so there is so, so much to talk about so we better get straight into it. So let's do that right now. Okay, right. Where do we start? Where do we begin?
Napoli's Serie A Victory Celebration
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah, where do we begin? There is so much to talk about today. So what we'll do is we won't talk too much about the last match day because for many of the games, there wasn't so much on the line, but there wasn't in some matches. So we'll focus on those ones to start with. But just to sum up the season ending,
00:03:19
Speaker
some up the table so Napoli of course already champions and they they won 2-0 against Sampdoria in the game which didn't matter but it was more about trophy presentation after the game where they were presented the trophy and they did yet another celebration and they haven't done they haven't celebrated enough Napoli so it was De Laurentiis pulling out all the stops fireworks the
00:03:43
Speaker
the musical artists and it was another amazing spectacle, wasn't it? They know how to party in Italy and they certainly know how to celebrate in the south of Italy. It was truly, truly fantastic. It deserved more
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, it deserved more of the focus, but there was obviously other games which we will come to.
Serie A Final Standings and European Qualifications
00:04:09
Speaker
Lazio finished second after beating Emily 2-0. Fantastic achievement. In to finish third. Fantastic achievement. Yeah, fantastic achievement. We're going to go through each team and we're going to give a grade for each team based on the season. So we will be talking about their seasons in a bit.
00:04:24
Speaker
But yeah, just to continue the round-up of the final weekend into third, finished third after a 1-0 win at Torino. Milan fourth after beating Verona 3-1. Now all the Champions League places were already decided since last week, so it was just about the placings. So those are the top four now. The Europa League positions weren't settled. Atalanta and Roma both had to win to clinch that. Atalanta did that comfortably. They thrashed Monza
00:04:48
Speaker
5-2 and Roma just about did it. They scored a last-minute penalty by Paolo Di Bala to beat Spezia 2-1. It's quite fitting that it was Di Bala who left Juventus last year, went to Roma and he scored the goal that
00:05:04
Speaker
got Rome in the Europa League place and made sure that Juventus, who had beaten Udinese 1-0 and were about to take Rome's place, at least temporarily, because, as we've said on this show, according to my information, it's almost certain Juventus are going to get a European ban. But for now, Juventus are in a conference league place. Eighth place, Fiorentina. Of course, they could still make Europe. They're in the conference league final, which we'll come to on Wednesday.
00:05:28
Speaker
Bologna 9th, they had a 96 minute winner to beat Lecce 32 and the rest of the table just to read it through for you.
Relegation and Play-Out Match Drama
00:05:36
Speaker
Torino 10th, Monza 11th, Udinese 12th, Tassualo 13th, Empoli 14th, Selenium 10 of 15th, Lecce 16th, then we come to the relegation spot, Sampdori and Cremenese of course, already relegated
00:05:48
Speaker
and we will have a play-out between Spector and Vaynerov. They both lost. Dramatic games there. We have a segment coming on that very, very shortly, so we'll hold that for now. Capo Cananieri goes to Victor Osseman, 26 goals he scored. He scored again against Sampdoria. Lautaro second in the Capo Cananieri rankings, 21 goals. And Bulaidia, 16 goals from Selena Tana. And of course, all the goodbyes.
00:06:13
Speaker
to a number of stars. Zlatan, retiring, we've got a segment coming on him in a minute. Fabio Qualirella, certainly his final Serie A game of his career at Napoli. That was very, very moving as well. And then a number of players and staff having their final goodbyes. Luciano Spelletti, he's gone.
00:06:33
Speaker
Victor Osseman and Kim Minjae was at their final games for Napoli. Marco Onalcovic, his final game for Bologna. Destiny Odaji, final game for Udenezer. Unhealthy Maria came on as a sub to the UMTAS, his final game.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic's Retirement and Legacy
00:06:47
Speaker
Milan Scrinya for Intel that he didn't play. So yeah, the final Serie A games for a lot of big names and legends.
00:06:55
Speaker
But no more big that are they than Zlatan Ibrahimovic. So this is I want to commemorate Zlatan's career because this was him his retirement number, wasn't it? Yes, it was. He didn't he retired from football in without telling anyone else, not even his family knew. And he decided it on his own and he walks out there and says that this is my goodbye to football.
00:07:19
Speaker
which makes it, which made it all very, very Zlatan way to do, to end things, to basically, you know, do it on his terms, like he's done his entire career, he just never really cared by anyone thought or,
00:07:37
Speaker
thinks about anything, he just does it his way. And so we saw him come out there and no one knew what to expect, and you saw what it meant to people. I think Zlatan has
00:07:54
Speaker
It was, I think it was fitting that he ended his career at Milan, where he is truly loved. He's respected at Barcelona, he's respected at JUVA, he's respected at Inter, United, Elle Galaxy, PSG, but he's not loved like that.
00:08:13
Speaker
He is loved at Milan, and you saw that. And so I think it's incredibly fitting to see Sandro Tonali crying, to see everyone at their stadium with tears in their eyes, and him as well. That was genuine. That's where he was most loved. That's where he felt the most at home. He even said so when he returned from Barcelona back to Italy. He said, Milan gave me the smile on my face back.
00:08:39
Speaker
He really, really enjoyed life there. And even when he left Milan, and when he came back to Milan more than anything, like he said, when I returned, you gave me love. Because when he came back,
00:08:54
Speaker
that pretty much spring the beginning of the end of Milan's banterera. It was from that point on that Milan raised La Stichela, as they say in Italy, they raised everything. Every player took, he was the catalyst to raise Milan out of the decade-long slumber and banterera, quote-unquote. And
00:09:21
Speaker
the results speak for themselves. Seventh, second, first, fourth, those are the results ever since Milan came back. And for that, he is loved and he will be loved forever at Milan. And I think that he will now be a, you know, he will go down as a Milan legend. He will go down as
00:09:43
Speaker
one of the most important people and characters, players in Milan's history, not maybe perhaps for the important trophies that they won, but for the importance in bringing Milan back to where Milan needs to be. And I think we'll see him now in some role for Milan, because I can't think of a better ambassador for Milan than Zlatan Ibrahimic.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yeah. And what an amazing goodbye as well. I mean, look at the choreography, the banner. I mean, that was just that was just beautiful genius. I mean, I mean, the play on words that is, I mean, it was simple, but but so so powerful. Look, Serie A is the best and not Serie A. Italian football is the best at their praising their heroes.
00:10:33
Speaker
No one does it. In Italy, they never forget who their heroes are, and they always praise them in a way that no one else comes close in football, in my opinion.
00:10:44
Speaker
I mean, I was there when Zanetti had his retirement. I was there when Zanetti was his goodbye, and that entire night, an atmosphere around that was just unreal. Francesco Totti, those immortal words, those immortal sending off, that is just unbelievable. De Ross sees goodbye.
00:11:09
Speaker
It's just Italians, no one does it like Italians when it comes to goodbyes and praising their heroes. I think that's one of the aspects of Italian football that I truly love the most and I think is unique.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And of course, Slatsan's career as a whole, just away from Milan, is legendary. I mean, over 500 career club goals, only 13 players in history of football.
00:11:39
Speaker
have scored more goals than Zlatan, which says it all. And I had a little look through that list earlier today. And I mean, he would be top 10. There's a few players from Northern Ireland who scored all their goals in the Northern Irish League that are in that list. So that tells you kind of where Zlatan is in the pantheon of attacking greats, certainly in terms of longevity, which is incredible. And this is someone who made his debut
00:12:09
Speaker
He made his debut in 1999. He's been playing for four different decades. Four different decades. I mean, that's insane. That's the thing I want to say that I think is the most impressive. He scored in four different decades. And that's the thing that I, you know, Zlatan is not
00:12:30
Speaker
in the same category as Maradona, Pelé, Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, and so on. He's not in that category, and I think he would admit to that himself, because he never reached those heights in terms of height at the level. But what he did do, which no other outfield player has done at that level, at this high level, is the longevity.
00:12:57
Speaker
at 40 years of age? For an attacker. For an attacker, definitely. For an attacker. I mean, we've had a few defenders that have done it, like Maldini, for example. But for an attacker, yeah, I don't think there's nobody that's had the longevity as an attacker at the highest level as he had. I mean, you remember, this is somebody who, at the age of 40, to think at 40, he was still playing a pivotal role in Milan in the Scudetto. You know, the first half of last season, he was pivotal, and then obviously got more off the pitch in the second half of the season.
00:13:27
Speaker
You know, I think, I mean, that's incredible. And I mean, after Messi and Ronaldo, I think he has been the most consistent player in terms of his generation. I think of that generation, he is a distant, but he is a clear third behind them. And
00:13:48
Speaker
I mean, his league winning record is unbelievable. I mean, he actually had a streak of one point of winning 12 league titles in a row, which was, I mean, it's just insane. I mean, his one disappointment, we have spoken about this on the show today, his one disappointment was the Champions League. He never quite did it in the Champions League knockout stages. And internationally, obviously, he wasn't playing for the Strongest Nations, so you can't really hold that against him. But his idol, Ronaldo, I mean, he joins his two idols, Maradona and Ronaldo, and never really
00:14:16
Speaker
succeeding in the European Cup Champions League and of course being from Sweden.
00:14:24
Speaker
he had zero chance of doing anything in European competitions, but disparate international competitions. But despite that, and also that Swedish team where he had his greatest period when Sweden had some of the weakest Swedish sites, I can remember. Sweden's biggest chance was in 2004 in the Euros, when Jungberg, Hendrik Larsen, and Ibrahimovic were all kind of
00:14:51
Speaker
They all their peak kind of somewhat coincided with one another And you know, he was injured in the World Cup 2006 so look it's But at the same time he was the first player to score two goals in three consecutive European European championships obviously Ronaldo bettered that but No, look, it's
00:15:16
Speaker
his legacy is truly unique because of the player that he was. The player that, in Brazil, they combine capoeira with football, that kind of training, the martial arts, but he did it with taekwondo. Zlatan married taekwondo in football, in a unique way. And what
00:15:45
Speaker
and he raised, you know, if you look at the most. Well, we saw that in many of his greatest moments. I mean, I've just noted down here, what are his greatest moments of his career? And a lot of them are Taekwondo-esque goals. I mean, the scorpion kick, for instance, that overhead kick for Sweden versus England, which I think is probably the goal of his career. I mean, that was just insane. I mean, overhead kick from near the halfway line.
00:16:10
Speaker
when he scored those four goals in 2012. I mean, the goal versus Italy in 2004 was acrobatically another kind of work of art, really, the way that he twisted his body. So, I mean, those are all, those will back that up. But, I mean, he's had so many great moments in his career. I mean, the solo goal he scored for Ajax against NAC Breda was insane. Winning the capo can on yellow with a back heel. I mean, if, if,
00:16:39
Speaker
Francesco Totti is always, for me, linked with Cucchiaio, the lob. That's Totti. Equally, Zlatan is the back heel. I mean, some of the most amazing goals, he scored with back-heeled goals, and not just one or two. The back heel, that was his superhero speciality, the same way that Francesco Totti with the lob, the Palonetto, the Cucchiaio.
00:17:05
Speaker
It was it's it's yeah, it's truly, truly remarkable. And it feels a bit surreal, even though we all knew this day was coming. But I've spoken to people who on in Sweden who all support all kind of all sorts of teams. And they're like, it's a little bit of disbelief that, you know, he's been around for so long that it feels surreal that he's no longer plays football anymore.
00:17:33
Speaker
He leaves a legacy and a void that is truly, truly remarkable and unique, the character he was. Unique, definitely. His skill set was unique. Someone that's that big, six foot five, but to have the technical quality of someone that's half his size. That is
00:17:55
Speaker
That is amazing. And yeah, his personality for sure. I mean, he is one of the biggest personalities we have ever seen in the game. I mean, you don't get characters like that anymore in modern football. They're all media trained. They're all robots. You saw that yesterday as well when Las Verona started booing and he immediately in the middle of his speech and said, come on, go on, boo boo. This is the greatest night of your year seeing me.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, totally unique. You just don't get those personalities now. They're all just media trained and scripted and actually quite, yeah, Sanders isn't actually quite boring.
00:18:38
Speaker
just boring. The modern footballer is generally quite boring. And just from the Swedish context, there truly is a Sweden as a country before and after Zlatan Ibrahimovic. I don't think you can
00:18:57
Speaker
It's so difficult to explain in words. I know that he's not very happy about it because he didn't choose to be the symbol of a lot of things that people projected onto him. It just so happened that the stars aligned that the world's most famous Swede and the world's most popular sport became a
00:19:19
Speaker
immigrant from a working-class poor area in Rosengord, which prompted a lot of establishment Swedes having to come to terms with what Sweden is and what Sweden as a country was and is. And he challenged that just by existing and just by being unapologetic about who he was and where he came from. He's never changed who he is. He's still that guy. He's never
00:19:49
Speaker
adapted to try to be anything. He is, as he says himself, I'm still the ghetto kid, like the attitude he has and how he talks. He's still that kid. He's not tried to be anything else than he isn't. And that's forced a lot of people in this country to have to come to terms with what is Sweden and what is Swedishness.
00:20:09
Speaker
which is unique. I can't think of many, very many other examples in footballing history where one person has an entire country had to come to terms with who they are just by existing, even though in a very political context, even though he didn't, he never tried it to be
Anticipation for Spezia vs. Verona Play-Out
00:20:30
Speaker
a political—he never tried to be political during his career. Towards the end, he finally started speaking about it when protecting Bianco Luszewski, above all, in the Swedish national team. But that is unique as well. I can't think of very many other countries where a player
00:20:50
Speaker
has, just by existing, because of his background, polarised the country the way that he did. And it's truly, truly remarkable to see all of that play out. And the door that he kicked open, he didn't open them, he kicked open doors for players like Koulousevski, for Aleksandr Izisak, for all these other players with
00:21:15
Speaker
non Swedish names, traditionally ethnic Swedish names and backgrounds. That is something that the gratitude and death that is owed to him is is just you can't measure it in words.
00:21:30
Speaker
For sure, for sure. Okay, we're talking of unique, the relegation race in Serie A, certainly unique this season because it will be decided by a play-out after an absolutely dramatic, thrilling final day. I was watching both of these games at the same time simultaneously. On the TV, I had Milan against Verona.
00:21:56
Speaker
And on my phone, I had Roma versus Spezia on. And it really was... Yeah, it ebbed and flowed. At one moment, it was Spezia staying up, then it was Verona. And then right in the last minute, I mean, it was... We went into this game, just to be clear, that both the teams won 31 points. Spezia away at Roma, Verona away at Milan.
00:22:25
Speaker
and they both ended up losing, so it goes to a play-out being played this Sunday, but that only tells half of the story, doesn't it? No, look, Verona weren't really ever close to shaking Milan at all, but Spezia took the lead against Roma and looked good measure
00:22:46
Speaker
to actually be able to pull it off. But of course, Roma needed to win because at the same time Juventus were leading and the Juventus would have been in the Europa League.
00:22:59
Speaker
And of course, Roma would have been relegated to the conference league again, which would have been an absolute, you know, that would have been a huge step back for them. So then Roma, of course, equalize and win on extra time. It was crazy. It was drama. I mean, the game went on for how many minutes was 112 minutes? How long did it go?
00:23:19
Speaker
15 minutes. I don't know where he got the extra time from. His watch wants to stop or something. I don't know. It was thrilling. There was everything in these games. They all seemed to happen simultaneously at the same time. I remember I made a note of this with 18 minutes to go.
00:23:41
Speaker
Zukovsky missed an open goal from an Unzola cross, which would have made it 2-1 to Spezia. Seconds later, literally about three seconds after that, Verona equalised from Farione to make it 1-0. So from one end to the other, it went from being Spezia basically having clinched
00:24:00
Speaker
safety and so Verona being back on equal terms. Then with six minutes to go, Liao then scored to make it 2-1 to Milan, so Verona back to be relegated. And at the exact same moment, Zoet, the specie guy, made an absolutely miraculous save to keep the scores level, specie level. And you think, OK, specie are going to be safe. And then in the 90th minute,
00:24:26
Speaker
Roma get a penalty. It's been debated. Was it a penalty? Was it not? It wasn't the only Debatable incident in both of these two games. I I mean, I thought the in Gong penalty at first I thought it was really harsh and I rewatched it and I'm a little bit maybe it was maybe it wasn't but it I don't think it was clear-cut and
00:24:44
Speaker
the penalty decision, the first penalty that Milan got to go 1-0 up. Manon, I think, should have been, or definitely could have been, sent off to take him and Gong out when he was cleared through. I think that was probably, definitely should have been looked at, for sure, by the VAR. And then, of course, yeah, that El Chirawi Penalty Award, which Di Barla dispatched, which basically took us to a play-out. Otherwise, Specci would have been safe. And even that, I think,
00:25:13
Speaker
I don't know. There's definitely some debate over that as well, I think. So these games had everything. And if this is anything to go by, then this play-out on Sunday is going to be some game. And it's a 90-minute play-out, isn't it, Nimmo, with straight-to-penalties? Is that correct? No extra time? Yeah. No, it's not going to be any extra time. It's 90 minutes, one game. And if it's a draw at that point, then they go to penalties.
00:25:41
Speaker
and it's going to be played at a neutral venue. I'm hoping, you know, it's two northern sides, so I'm hoping they choose, you know, not Rome or something like that, like they choose, you know, the San Siro or something, you know, just so there's like, it's equally in the middle between Verona and La Spezia so that they can fill the stadiums out and make it quite the event. And I hope that both fan bases turn up. I mean, at least Spezia don't really have a fan base, but that Verona at least turn up because
00:26:10
Speaker
It's going to be a crazy, crazy game. And it's... Oh, I'm loving it. Who's your money on? I think Verona feel like they have been handed one here. They have literally escaped Hell with luck. And I think Spezia... I don't know. I think Hellas will manage this.
00:26:40
Speaker
I think so. I really do. Yeah. I think we're going to penalties. I think we're going to penalties and I think Hellas will pull it off. I think that's possible. Yeah. I think that could be possible as well. I think so. And that will be, will that be the first ever penalty shootout to decide the team? I don't know. I think so. I've not looked it up, but yeah. I can't think of it recently. Maybe, maybe further back, maybe further back it was.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah.
Season Performance Grades for Serie A Teams
00:27:08
Speaker
Okay. So we look forward to that then on Sunday and then that will be the end of the season. Let's have a little bit more of a step back now and look at the season as a whole. So what I want to do is I want to go through each of the major teams and I want us to give a grade out of 10 for each team of how they've done season as a whole, not just Serie A.
00:27:27
Speaker
If you want to give a Serie A mark as well, I know I saw you doing one for Insta yesterday. If you want to do a Serie A one, you can. But let's give a final mark. Starting off with Napoli, it can only be one mark. Ten. It's a 10 out of 10 for Serie A. It's a 10 out of 10 for the Champions League. They wrote history in the Champions League. They've never been to the quarterfinals. Ok, the Coppa Italia was a disaster, but who cares?
00:27:56
Speaker
I mean, seriously, it can only be a 10-10. They wrote history in every competition, the most important competitions anyway, and they won the Serie A for the first time in 33 years. You can only give them a 10.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, 9.9 out of 10. I'll tell you what, I'll give them because of that. Now that's fair, because I'll give them what I gave them in for their Mercato nine and a half. I think that's fair, because 10. Overall, you have to be perfect. And they weren't perfect. So nine and a half out of 10. I think overall for the entire season. Yeah.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. Lazio. You have to give them a nine, because who had Lazio in second spot before the season started? And before, you know, if you add Juventus 10 playing points, they're still in second spot. Like, that is truly remarkable. For me, that is an incredible achievement. And I was critical of Sarri that he didn't give a
00:29:02
Speaker
damn about the European competitions getting knocked out of two, the conference league and the Europa League. But when you finish second spot, given where you're in the Champions League, you can't but give them anything but a nine. No one expected this. They played fantastic football. If I'm not mistaken, they had the best defense in all of Serie A.
00:29:21
Speaker
Second best, second best defense. Yeah. But for large, but for large parts, Latzio had the best defense of the season.
00:29:34
Speaker
They had the most clean sheets, I find that mistaken. He had 21. Did Provedel start the last game of the season? If he did, he's got 21 clean sheets. He had 20 clean sheets before the final game of the season, so it will be 21. No, it was Provedel. Provedel did start, you made me unsure there.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, there you go. For large parts, they have the best defense in the Serie A in terms of numbers. And they have the goalkeeper with the most clean sheets, even though I don't think he's the best goalkeeper in the Serie A, which tells you everything. And Sarri did it with defenders that might not exactly be ideal for his style of defending. I mean, the Romagnoli is not a speed bullet, and he likes to have quick defenders.
00:30:18
Speaker
But he found a way. This is what I mean, the pragmatic ideologue, Maurizio Sarri, finding the perfect approach, getting the most out of this Lazio side. Second spot is an incredible achievement by Lazio. And they are now the champions. And I sincerely hope.
00:30:36
Speaker
I'm going to be a little bit more grumpy. I'm going to give them an 8 out of 10 rather than a 9 out of 10 purely because I look at their points tally, I look at the number of games they've lost and I also recognise that they're also there partly because as you rightly said they've had a fantastic
00:30:55
Speaker
done fantastically well. Sorry, done an amazing job. The defensive record speaks to themselves. They've done amazingly well. But at the same time, they're also there because all the other teams around them all had
00:31:12
Speaker
Well, let's be honest, terrible domestic season, terrible Serie A seasons. And the points tally, this is the lowest points tallies we've had for teams fighting for Champions League positions from second to fourth for, I can't remember the last time, we would probably have to go back about 15 years when it used to be super competitive Serie A. So I think that's also partly it plus, as you said, you know,
00:31:38
Speaker
Europe flopped, and obviously Coppertalia. So I give it eight, which is sort of excellent, Mark. It's still an excellent one. This is not me downplaying this season. I just think that, yeah, I think we have to also take that into account. But well done to Lazio. Inter. Well, inter-season isn't over yet. So there's a bit of a caveat here, because I think if I just look at the Serie A, it's a failure.
00:32:06
Speaker
To me, it's closer to a failure than it is. They pass, but they barely pass. They're the kid who turns up to the exam and just passes, just hitting the pass grade. Not because of the position 3-3. That's a respectable Serie A position.
00:32:23
Speaker
But it's the 12 defeats. That is unacceptable for an interside, no matter who is in charge or what year it is. 12 defeats in the Syria, in one Syria season, is unacceptable. And it becomes really annoying because if you look at those defeats, eight of them were avoidable, six of them they should have won, that's 18 points, that brings intertally up to 90, and two of those they should have drawn, that's 92. That means for the second year in a row,
00:32:53
Speaker
Uno scudetto boutate, boutate a la mandata la povtana. Pardon my French. Another scudetto thrown. Oh, please don't translate. But it really is. It really is. It's too scudetti now, you can argue, that they've thrown away. And what this is worse than last year, because they were never in the race, never.
00:33:18
Speaker
And that's just, to me, that's not good enough. There are, of course, mitigating circumstances for that throughout the season, because it's been a very difficult and dramatic season. And Simon Inzagi, I think, has managed to handle situations that he was thrown at him. But that's part of the job. That's part of the job when you're the manager at Inter. That's part of the job when you're the manager at Inter, Juve, Milan,
00:33:42
Speaker
You have to handle it and although I think he handled those situations well because he still won two trophies He still got the team to a historic sixth Champions League European Cup final but the league 12 defeats is far too much so I Can't overall mark as things stand today if you were to lose the Champions League final I'd give it a six and a half seven, but if they win it I
00:34:08
Speaker
Overall, it has to be an eight because Inter will have won the Champions League for the first fourth time in their history. So somewhere between six and a half and an eight.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, it is a tough one to analyse, isn't it? Because also on the other hand, even if you do lose the final, just get into the Champions League final is still an incredible achievement. Yes, you can say, okay, the teams they've played in the knockout stage haven't been, you know, super clubs, but look at the group, look at the group and you've got to the final. So I mean, that is an incredible achievement and certainly worth marks even if you lose the final.
00:34:44
Speaker
you won the copper Italian cave not not in a major competition you won the super copper you know it's super copper but you know you they're still cops but the league of course yeah I mean the league and in the day it depends how you want to look at it isn't it I mean you've got in the Champions League and unless you're going to win the league
00:35:02
Speaker
Well, I guess, does it matter that much? Maybe not. So, yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair and everything. I mean, if you win the Champions League, I mean... No, I give it. In that situation, it has to be nine. I mean, it becomes a nine. Yeah, it becomes a nine. Or you can hire if you win the Champions League. No, no, no. Look, if you win three cup tournaments,
00:35:25
Speaker
and the biggest cup tournament of them all for the fourth time in your history, then it's unbelievable. But again, this is why I keep coming back to the 93-94 season. A lot of similarities. Of course, that season into almost got relegated because they were so dreadful in the league, but won the UEFA Cup. But they were not never close to that. But
00:35:50
Speaker
In terms of the somewhat schizophrenic season that Inter have had, it's very similar. And also, of course, back then, you had the Pellegrini ownership coming to an end. Things weren't really clicking. Got the same similar situation here with Suning. You had a squad that was a bit strangely built. I think we
00:36:15
Speaker
There's a lot of similarities with 93, 94, but if they were to win the Champions League, which would be a miracle, let's be honest, that would be one of the biggest miracles in Italian club football history. I mean, just if you look at the disparity. You know what? Screw it. Into winning the Champions League for 10. I don't care. You can't get any bigger in football. You can't get any bigger than football than winning the Champions League. So 10, 10, 10. To win 9 because they will have won three out of four competitions they were in.
00:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Right, Milan. It's a disappointment. The worst league defenders, the title defenders that I can remember in recent memory, it just reinforces our view that last year's Serie A when we said that the winner is probably the weakest Serie A winner in a generation. Yes, I forgot. You know, I totally forgot about that narrative. And Milan, so many Milan fans are getting really upset about it. Yeah, they were.
00:37:09
Speaker
But it wasn't taking a dump on Milan's because they overperformed and they overachieved. You see them now, Milan fans are all on that bandwagon demanding investment from the ownership now because they saw it. Yeah, there was a banner. Yeah, they are absolutely right. We expect the leap in quality. We expect the leap in quality.
00:37:30
Speaker
And they are right. They are 100% right. And this is what we were saying last year. It wasn't us taking a dump on Milan. It was us just looking at the situation in a sober and objective way. And I think they wouldn't even be in the Champions League if it weren't for the 10-point penalty. And I think that's it. That's what you have to look at. You have to remove that 10-point and you say, OK, the outcome may have been
00:38:00
Speaker
7 out of 10. The outcome, because you're in the Champions League, you've got some Champions League semi-finals, so you might even want to add some marks for that as well, maybe even say 7.5 maybe against the semi-finals. But we're talking about the outcome here, the actual season as a whole.
00:38:17
Speaker
I think, honestly, I think the semi-final of the Champions League takes up to a 6-0. Yeah, that's where I am as well. Otherwise, I don't think I can go higher than that, because they didn't qualify for the Champions League. Well, I mean, there is the counter-argument, which I think is valid, and that is that, well, had those points not been deducted, Milan would have, you know, like Mourinho was talking about, you know,
00:38:39
Speaker
we would have acted differently in that, you know, so there is that point as well. But the fact of the matter is, yeah, well, exactly. But I'm just I just want to validate because I think that's a valid argument. But my point is simply this, you can't sit here and tell me straight and look in my face and tell me this has been a good season for Mila. You just can't do that. Because because
00:39:00
Speaker
And you also got to remember, if Milan hadn't qualified for the Champions League, Rafael Liao would not have been, they wouldn't have been able to afford to keep Rafael Liao. He'd be gone and it would have been even more with this archery season because their whole project could have been derailed, would have been pushed back so much. So I think it has been a bad season with the exception of that semi-final performance in the Champions League and not forget they beat Napoli.
00:39:25
Speaker
in the quarterfinals so that was definitely the highlight i think the champions league run for sure i mean the way they overcame spurs the way they overcame uh napoli um you know and i thought their group stage is all right as well no i think they they did all right i think they they you know nobody expected them to reach the semi-final of course the luck of the draw is also key
00:39:46
Speaker
like with Inter, but still they got to a semi-final and that was money they did not expect to come in. And I think that's one of the main reasons why they were able to extend and felt sure that they could extend Liao's contract. So that kind of helped. Okay, Atalanta. Atalanta, let's zoom through these next two. I did not have the fifth. That I did not have.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think they've actually done slightly better than expected. I think I had them at seven at the beginning of the season. I think I had them as well. I think they've done well. I think they've done well to have fought so hard until the end for a Champions League post. It's only been like a couple of games. I know, again, as I said with Laxo, this is also partly down to everyone else.
00:40:37
Speaker
dropping so many points. I mean, if you objectively, if you look at Atalanta's final record, 1-19, drawn seven, lost 12. I mean, that's hardly outstanding. It's not. Those are not outstanding numbers. 64 points for the season is not an outstanding tally. So there's the other side of the argument, but I'd say that with Latin for Alexia, I'd say that for Inter, I'd say that for Milan.
00:41:00
Speaker
So that for Roma, so that for Juventus, regardless of their points of deduction, you know, these are not good points tallies that these teams have got. So, but if you look at the outcome and you look at the final position, I think, yeah, they've done, they have done well. Atalanta to finish where they have. And yeah, there's lots of positives. You know, Hoyland for sure has been a fantastic
00:41:21
Speaker
another fantastic explosion at Atlanta, among so many others in the recent years. So yeah, I think they've done well. They've done very well. Roma. Oh, we think Atlanta. I would go seven to seven and a half. I think six and a half seven is where I'm with them. Yeah. Roma, I think, you know, they,
00:41:51
Speaker
I mean, they performed on par with expectation in the league. They overperformed in the Europa League. I had them as a dark horse to win the tournament before the season.
00:42:05
Speaker
in the end, they didn't. And again, the injury situation, like you can't talk about the stadio olympico anymore, because Lazio played there as well, yet another ACL issue. Okay, Tommy Abraham was not, that was just, you know, that wasn't down to Trigoria, because you saw how he bended his knee. But again, the injuries that Roma have been through, something is messed up here.
00:42:28
Speaker
What is going on? The way that things go for the last 5-6 years, Roma need 40 players in order to be able to end the season with 20 healthy ones. It's crazy.
00:42:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, most doctors will tell you that's just a freak. That's just a freak injury. But we can't, yeah, we can't keep calling everything freak and coincidences. Do you know what I mean? There has to be something bigger at play there if this keeps happening.
00:43:01
Speaker
then the cat was screwed
00:43:20
Speaker
I think that was the worst thing that could have happened. That's 30, 40 million at least that they could be looking at there and now that's really screwed them. That's screwed Roman and it's bad for Abraham as well.
00:43:40
Speaker
No, it's just that it's not all we're running in the worst way possible. And now, you know, Mourinho obviously, you know, now it'll be interesting to see how they handle that because Mourinho's made it clear that he wants to stay. So now the Friedkins are in a tricky position, how they handle the situation. But we'll see. I think
00:44:01
Speaker
I think six and a half. If they'd have won the Europa League, I would have given them an eight. And I think they deserved to win the Europa League. I said it last week. I think they were ridiculously unlucky to lose that game, ignore all the everything around. And after the game, just based on the actual game of football, they deserve to win that game. And so it's just very, very unfortunate. You've entered. I don't know what to say about that.
00:44:27
Speaker
I mean, you can't judge it just on the pitch, but I guess you could give a non-pitch vote and you could give a total vote for everything. But yeah, I mean, if you're doing a total vote, I mean, you're looking at like two out of 10, one out of 10. You can't get any more disastrous other than being relegated.
00:44:45
Speaker
It's been a total disaster on a sporting level. On a financial level, it's completely fucked them, excuse my language, for the summer and for the next season. They're going to have to sell players and then they've got the managerial situation. They've got no one. They still need to sort out the upper management situation.
00:45:06
Speaker
But just everything this season. The results speak for themselves. A second trophy this season. That's the first time it's happened in 35 years under the same manager. The football they've played has been terrible. And the player development as well, and we've seen it certainly with the top players, with the attacking players, has been terrible. It's been the regress of many of the players.
00:45:32
Speaker
And yeah, it's a mess. The situation is a total mess going forward now. So yeah, if you combine all that, I think you're looking at, you may be looking at one out of 10, two out of 10 if you wanna say, well, it could have been even worse. As for the actual, if you ignore the off the pitch stuff, I mean, pfft.
00:45:55
Speaker
I guess on the pitch they qualified for the Champions League and if you take it that as the situation then you can say 6 out of 10 maybe because they qualified for the Champions League but having not qualified for the Champions League I mean
00:46:11
Speaker
I don't know what I mean. You can't blame the players or the coach for what happens off the pitch. So I can only give them for what happened on the pitch. And I can't give them more than six, five and a half, six, because on the pitch, they qualified in the top four. They got to the semifinal of the Copa Italia. They got to the semifinal of the Europa League. The Champions League was a disaster.
00:46:33
Speaker
um but yeah five five and a half six somewhere there for on the pitch stuff if it were off the pitch combination well zero i mean it's it's one of the most disastrous seasons ever in Juventus' history it's just been a class it's been a learning I mean you've also had some disastrous seasons
00:46:53
Speaker
Yeah, you meant to have had some disastrous seasons on the pitch in the past and they've had some disastrous seasons off the pitch in the past. Everyone knows what they are. They don't have to go through. I don't think I can ever remember a season where it's been equally disastrous on and equally disastrous off. Usually it's been one or the other. It's never been both to this degree, you know, ever. I can't remember ever to this degree.
00:47:15
Speaker
You know, when 2006 happened, well, they had a really great season and they had a great team. This season has been a disaster off the pitch and off the pitch. So, you know, they've broken so many negative. So, I mean, you know, I can't, you know, at the end of the day, you can only compete against this season you're in, if that makes sense. You know, they're not competing against the historic teams, they're competing against the Serie A they're in. And in that Serie A they're in, they finish third, fourth.
00:47:45
Speaker
So it's not great, but they still go into the Champions League. But then you have all this other nonsense off the pitch, the entire board resigning all at once because of their ridiculous criminal activities that are still being, you know, that the Juventus have acknowledged from a sporting legal wise sense.
00:48:06
Speaker
in the plea bargain, as well as being condemned by the FIGC for the plus valenza thing. And then you have the personal bans against the entire leadership and the people who ran the club.
00:48:19
Speaker
And then you've got the criminal cases still pending towards them. No, it's just an absolute mess. But it's going to be interesting to see how they handle this. Like, who does Allegri continue? Who's going to be the new sporting director? Are they going to do it in-house, which I think would be an absolute disaster? Or, you know, what are they going to do? What are they going to do?
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah, we'll come to that in a bit. I should also add that this is only two defeats away, Juventus, this season from the worst ever number of defeats in the history of Juventus, which is 19. And Juventus lost 17 games in all competitions this season, 10 in Serie A. So it's almost a historic
Serie A Awards and Notable Player Performances
00:49:04
Speaker
season. That's another thing, I mean, except for Napoli.
00:49:07
Speaker
What is this? Lazio, 8 defeats, Inter, 12 defeats, Milan, 8 defeats, Atalanta, 12 defeats, Roma, 11 losses, Juventus, 10 losses, Fiorentina, 12 losses. I mean, what is this? It's such a weird Serie A season. But I mean, I guess on the one hand, Dak just goes to show how evenly balanced this league is because no one's really
00:49:34
Speaker
For a new choice, for a new choice, it's great. I mean, obviously take away nothing. They were the ones who were the most consistent and had the team that suited their coach the most. And he also got everything out of them. So there is that. But other than that, like 72, 74, 70 points. I mean, it's weird because at the same time you've got 22 wins, 23 wins, 20 wins. It's so strange. It's such a crazy season.
00:50:05
Speaker
is let's let's move on let's do our own serial awards now we had the the actual official serial ones that came out at the end of the class we're going to do our own ones now yeah very bizarre and so first off best goalkeeper we'll do one each so you go first who's your best goalie
00:50:23
Speaker
Mike Mignon, Mike Mignon, Mike Mignon, Mike Mignon, Mike Mignon, Mike Mignon
00:50:47
Speaker
I mean, if you're asking me who's the best goalkeeper in Serie A, it's no doubt. I still think that the heights that Mike Mignon, despite missing all those games that he reached, no goalkeeper came close to. Onana is the only one, I'd say, that came close to that level.
00:51:06
Speaker
Oh yeah, there's no doubt about that in terms of actual, in terms of actual apex heights. I love how we got that in there. Yes, the average apex height. Yeah, that's the apex height of the levels. I think they would go as many on and on. There's no doubt of those two are in the league of the round. But I think if I'm looking at who was the actual best. Statistically, there's no doubt about statistically, but I'm looking at
00:51:35
Speaker
Robert Dal, but I think Vicario was excellent as well. I want to give a shout out to him. I think Vicario made a little bit too many howlers for my taste, and Provedel as well, in order to be the best goalkeeper in the Serie A. I think some of the howlers they made, they're still developing, they haven't reached their peak, and Mike Mignon is at the height of his powers.
00:51:59
Speaker
The apex. Defender. That's the thing. You're pulling fullbacks and wingbacks and everyone into one here. But if we're talking central defender, you can't go past Kim Min-jae. Yeah, well, I think you can't go past Kim Min-jae for fullbacks or for centrebacks. I think he's a clear winner. But for me, I think he's been an absolute revelation. I think that he replaced Kaladu Kalubali, who was somebody that's been an absolute pillar of Napoli for eight years. And he's just one of those
00:52:29
Speaker
big personalities and figures that are often so hard to replace at football clubs, whether it's a player or whether it's a coach, you know, which kind of people we're talking about, that they've been there for so long and they're so hard to replace. And the fact, the thinking that he's just come in there and
00:52:45
Speaker
And he's done better than Cooley Valley. I mean, he's unbelievable. He's played at a level. Let's be honest. I think Kim and Jay has been the best central defender in the world this season. I don't think, I think he's been by far the best central defender in the world. For me, he is. It's not even close. Ruben Diashu, I love and respect a lot. I think for me, Kim and Jay has been
00:53:09
Speaker
the most complete. Arielia Monster, fantastic passer, tackles, read of the game. Nah, they have a, he is for me the best, for me is the best central defender in the world this season.
00:53:22
Speaker
There's numbers have been amazing this season. He's got the most ball recoveries in Serie A, the second most interceptions in Serie A this season, the fourth most aerial challenges won in Serie A. For me, it's not even close for him. He's the only person I'd probably put close to him. Yeah, I mean, look, in terms of, yeah, but I mean, if we're including like wing backs in that, or the full backs, I think Teo has again shown that he is the best left bat, like he's world-class.
00:53:50
Speaker
at a level that, on the wing, that no one else really comes close. Let's go to midfielder. Best midfielder in Serie A. It's so difficult because I think... Look, I look at Barilla and I think he's been really, really good.
00:54:11
Speaker
And I think he can't say he didn't deserve to become the best midfielder in the Serie A. But then he had patches where he was invisible for a long time. Anguissa, I think, was unbelievable. I don't think Sergey Milinkovic deserves it this year because I think he was so anonymous for large parts of the season, even though his numbers...
00:54:33
Speaker
Second half of the season, yeah. Second half of the season. But still he turned up the numbers. But look, I'm going to go with, I think overall, I think Barilla.
00:54:44
Speaker
I'll give a shout out for Rabio as well. He's probably one of the only very, maybe the only positive for Juventus this season. His numbers have been amazing this season, best season in his career in 11 goals scored this season, which is very impressive when you consider the position he plays and the way that Juventus play. I think that's very, very impressive, the few chances that Juventus create and you've got someone like him scoring 11 goals. I think that's very impressive.
00:55:10
Speaker
I think it is difficult, but I can't look past. See, when I think of a midfielder, what do I want from my central midfielder? I know there's different types of midfielders. From my central midfielder, I just want someone that will dominate the midfield, however they go about doing that. And I think that there hasn't been a midfielder in Italy this season who has dominated his centre of the pitch better than La Boca, than Apley. And he's my best
00:55:35
Speaker
midfield of the season in Serie A because, I mean, tangibly he's somebody that...
00:55:41
Speaker
You know, his statistics won't tell you much. He doesn't score, virtually never scores. I'm not even sure if he scored this season. He doesn't assist much. You won't see much in the highlights reels of him, but he will control the dominant... See, I think Anguissa did more than Lobotka. I think Lobotka was outstanding. I think the midfield was absolutely... I mean, that's the reason they won it, if we were perfectly honest on top of, you know, Krichan Victor, but the way that they control the midfield. But for me, Anguissa was just unreal.
00:56:10
Speaker
some of the games this season. I thought Anguisa was amazing for the first half of the season and I think he did lose his way for a couple of months. He was tired for a couple of months and that coincided with him going out of the Champions League and then he re-found himself just in the last weeks of the season when the title was won and that guy even gets in so he was really good in. But yeah, I mean I'll go for Lebokka because he's just everything that I go for in the midfield. He's my kind of player, he's the kind of variety, japheen, that kind of...
00:56:38
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of player that just controls and dictates it and he just makes never loses it. He presses really fantastically well as well. And so I would go for La Boca and best attack. I mean, but you can't go past Victor Osman for everything that he did this season.
00:56:59
Speaker
I love Lautaro, but you know, Lautaro is still not the finished product. He's still a patchy goal scorer, Victor Osseman. This is the funny thing. He's caused 26 goals. He's missed a couple of penalties and he's also missed a lot of chances. That just tells you he's not peaked yet and he's already at this high level. I think Osseman as a striker is an elite of his own in the Serie A this season. I don't think
00:57:22
Speaker
Yeah. No one comes close. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think for a long time in this season, up until maybe February kind of time, February, March, I think it was almost impossible to separate Osseman and Kavada, not just for best attacker, but just for best player in the whole Serie A. But then I think that Osseman has pulled away from Kavada. If it was a marathon,
00:57:48
Speaker
Osseman in the final few miles of the marathon, he's pulled away. And I think that we've seen that. I think Kavara has had an amazing season. Phenomenon. I mean, we'll come to the best sign in a minute. But I think, yeah, Osseman for sure, a couple of canyere, and he's just been relentless, relentless the whole season long. And maybe it would be Napoli in the Champions League final now, and not Milan going through that quarterfinal tie if
00:58:18
Speaker
if he hadn't been injured in that first leg and not fully fit in that second leg, I think that was obviously huge. So yeah, a big trust in him for me, but obviously we have to give a shout out to Claddow, we have to give a shout out to Lautaro, Boulaia as well, amazing. So yeah. Next. I need you to clarify best under 21 here, because does that include players who are 21 when the season started?
00:58:45
Speaker
21 and under, yeah. So when the season started, they were 21, because Clara turned 22 in February. That's more than half the season played when he was under 21. Okay, let's do that then. 21, let's start the season. Let's check about Australia. What other under 21 year old that the impact that he had in not just in Serie A, but in all of the top five leagues, you can pick on one, you can list them on one hand under 21 players who started the season at 21.
00:59:15
Speaker
and turn 22 in the new year. I mean, look at the impact for me. It's a feature by now. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Rasmus Heuland as well, obviously, has been phenomenal. In 2023, he's been absolutely phenomenal. But yeah, Clada, over the course of the season, there's a clear winner there. Best transfer, yeah. 10 million euros. Are you kidding me? No, no, no.
00:59:54
Speaker
Anana, yeah, amazing, amazing. And then, yeah, I mean, Atalanta, Rasmus Hoyland, amazing, Di Bala, Roma, Free Transfer, has been a really fantastic signing as well. So, yeah, there has been, I mean, Bulaidia, again, from Selenitana, incredible signing, and they're going to make a huge, huge profit on him this summer. So, there's been some big signings for sure. And lots of good signings.
01:00:04
Speaker
But there are competitors there. There are competitors there, no doubt. Kim Min Jae from his own team has been astonishing for 18 million euros. But you know, then we can go down the internet.
01:00:21
Speaker
Best coach? Spaletone. I can't get past him. Sorry, in any other season it would be Maurizio Sarri, but Spaletone, the way that Napoli won, playing the football they did, the manner in which they did after the summer they had,
01:00:40
Speaker
It was, and to be able to manage expectations in such a crazy place like Naples, and to keep the, you know, despite with all the madness that always happens there, with the Corva and the Ultras doing what they did, and him trying to manage expectations and keep them grounded and keep them focused, it's not easy in Naples.
01:01:02
Speaker
and he's done a phenomenal job. You know, 90 points, third scoretto, first in 33 years, playing wonderful football, charming Europe in the Champions League, reaching a historic quarterfinal, something Napoli have never been close to reaching. No, you can't. What are you going to do? What are you going to say? OK, let's go to worst player now. You missed the best sporting director.
01:01:29
Speaker
best sports director, go on then, two best sports director. Junto, you know? Yeah, I think it's... Junto and the second spot, Corvino. I think what he did with Letcher last summer is what he always does with Letcher. And what he always does, just pulls rabbits out of hats.
01:01:49
Speaker
I have to give a shout out to Marotta, I know you probably won't. No, no, Marotta, look, except for the Scrinya thing, look, when you have no budget to work with and a shoestring budget and you have to make it work somehow under those circumstances, Marotta did an excellent job, but look at what Juntoly did.
01:02:05
Speaker
That's fair. No, that is fair. Scriny, I didn't think of Scriny. That is a fair point because he did cost him money there. But in terms of building the team, I think it's no doubt taken to the Champions League final with these players. It's unbelievable. He is truly unbelievable when it comes to stuff like that. Worst player? Worst player?
01:02:27
Speaker
My worst player and worst transfer is the same, and that is De Kettler of Milan. Yeah, I have Paul Pogba as the worst transfer because it's been an abject failure. And I think that's just the amount of money he's costing and what that turned out to be has been an abject failure. And for De Kettler, yeah, I think you have to give it to him for being the worst player, given what he, if you take
01:02:53
Speaker
zero goals and one if you take everything into consideration if you take how much he costs how much all of that and even if you take into consideration 40 million if you even take into consideration that he was you know that they built him for the future which i i'm not giving up on him but you can't deny that he's been dreadful this season
01:03:12
Speaker
And he looks scared. He looks so uncomfortable. I think there's no one, no one's happier in the city. The season is over more than Charlotte Kettler. So he can at least have a few weeks off and recharge his batteries and come back fired up again.
01:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, you could pick a few, to be honest, from Milan. I mean, there's Origi as well. Yeah, he was dreadful. Adley. I mean, these players, they're all... Yeah, but Adley, I don't know, because he hasn't played at all. And he's not really cost them that much. But Origi, yes, that's a very good shout. But yeah, no, it's... I mean, it's the same thing there with worst transfers, Origi. Yeah, if we're talking worst transfer, if we were talking worst sporting director for the season, it would be Milan.
01:03:57
Speaker
There's no doubt about that. You reckon? Yeah, fair enough. I mean, if we're going by player, by player, who's performed, who hasn't, I mean, I think it is Milan. And we've got to remember, they wouldn't have qualified for the Champions League if it wasn't for the points to Dutch. So we could go Juventus and say, oh, Juventus had a terrible transfer market.
01:04:19
Speaker
I think Leandro Paredes, I think he was dreadful, given what he cost, given who he is and the experience he has. No, I'm taking the Kepler off because he's still young. I don't think Leandro Paredes, because he's just not worth it. He's not good enough. And I hope that no one that people see now what we're dealing with here. We are talking about a player who is very mediocre.
01:04:46
Speaker
And is surround has always been lucky to be surrounded by fantastic players everywhere he's gone. You over he was supposed to lead. Well, that didn't work out well, did it? So for me, whoa, no, he's not given a given a shit. His attitude has been awful. Every single game, he's just turned up as if he doesn't care.
01:05:05
Speaker
have to be an expert on body language to be able to see that. And also performances. I'd say worst play and worst transfer. I'd probably, I think Pogba's unfair because of the injuries. I wasn't really his fault. I'm going to go with both on Leandro Paredes because I think they were dreadful. Absolutely stinkers.
01:05:21
Speaker
No excuses. It doesn't just have to be them. It doesn't just have to be the player's fault, though, does it? Sometimes it can be, well, the club shouldn't have bought him. It was a bad sign by the club. So yeah, I mean, in that case, you've got to go with, uh, with, uh, Ariba Ben and, uh, the Juva, you know, worst player, worst transfer, worst, worst just sporting directors, all three of them. Like congratulations, Juva. He's stunk up.
01:05:44
Speaker
Worst dressed sense and color coordination as well. Worst coordination of players in order to form a team and worst coordination of colors to form clothes. Right, okay.
01:06:01
Speaker
Yes, let's go.
Controversy Surrounding Referee Anthony Taylor
01:06:03
Speaker
Where can we go? Right. What should we do now? Let's do let's leave the coaches. So we're going to do a segment on the coaches and whether they're going to stay and go. We'll hold that to Thursday because we're going where. But we do need to speak very quickly on the incident between Roma fans and Anthony Taylor at the airport. We do need to comment on this. I know it's a few days ago now, but I do feel like we should comment on this. So the big question is, is
01:06:28
Speaker
Everybody's seen the scenes of what happened where he was being accosted by Roma fans. I believe it was his wife and daughter. That hasn't been officially confirmed, but I'm assuming that's who they were. And the daughter especially looked very distressed. Well, of course, you're scared. Should Roma...
01:06:48
Speaker
Roma fans, but Roma as a club and Mourinho be held responsible, should they hold some of the blame for what happened there with the fans in order to create in this kind of environment by their behaviour? I don't understand why, because what exactly did Mourinho do that in any way incited this behaviour?
01:07:10
Speaker
Look, he was critical of the referee and his performance. That is well within his rights. If he used offensive language and said effing disgrace, and you want to punish him for that, that's fine. But to say that that in and of itself is some form of incitement of hatred or incitement of violence, sorry, is ludicrous.
01:07:36
Speaker
I just don't see it. He said he thought the referee was dreadful. He thought the referee did his job like he was Spanish. That's not inciting violence. I'm sorry. That's on the idiots who behaved like idiots. I do think, however, that Rommel should put out a statement
01:08:01
Speaker
and distance themselves vehemently from that behaviour, that I do think, and so should Mourinho. That I do think they should do, because that was reprehensible what they did to that poor man's family. And his daughter especially, she was scared for her life. And it was unnecessary. But to blame Roma and Mourinho as if somehow being responsible for this is what?
01:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree, although we should, just to give the other side, we should say that this has been something that has happened with Mourinho.
01:08:40
Speaker
in the past. We saw it with Anders Frisk, your countryman, who you met. Yeah, I didn't mean to. And I told him, I asked him where he found those extra minutes in the Euro of 2000 final, which cost Italy the title as well. I wondered where he found them and he didn't reply. Where did he find them? He didn't reply. I said, I asked him, I was like, well, yeah, no, he's a nice guy, actually, Anders Frisk. He's just, yeah, it is what it is.
01:09:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, yeah. So, I mean, Mourinho, I remember he claims that he forced. Mourinho was blamed. Which is ridiculous. That's nonsense. How? Like, you know, he was he he reported honestly what he saw. UEFA investigated it. And that's what he's supposed to do. I mean, look, it's it's not Mourinho's fault. Any of that. They they they saw something. They reported it. UEFA investigated and came to an I mean,
01:09:39
Speaker
Should managers be more aware of what their actions can incite? Of course. Or should it be like they should just... Yeah, I mean, of course you should be careful with what you say and what you do. But again, what was it that he said that incited violence? I don't understand.
01:09:58
Speaker
I really don't understand. He has a right to be angry and disappointed and criticize the referee for bad refereeing. That's just part of the game. But to go from that to thinking that you can harass people at an airport
01:10:14
Speaker
I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I really, really don't see it. I would add two other layers to this and please don't misunderstand what I'm going to say here and see it as victim blaming or anything, but two things here. First of all, UEFA.
01:10:29
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if you made the security arrangements, who made the security arrangements, who made a decision to send him through a pat there for Roma fans, through the middle of them with his family. I mean, I don't know whether that was the way his decision or whether that was his decision. I don't know whose decision it was to bring his wife and his kid with him. Again, I'm not victim, but I know this sounds like
01:10:54
Speaker
No, I don't have a problem with bringing his family to Budapest. No, no, no. Why are you walking through a park at night? I understand that. I'm not trying to see if it's him, but I'm saying, you know... For me, it's the lack of security. For me, it's not that he brought his family with him to Budapest. For me, it's the lack of security. They don't have a VIP entrance at the airport. Like, I mean, they don't have a... I mean, come on. So when dignitaries and I don't know, you know, when people who need extra level of protection come through to Budapest, they have to stand in line like everyone else.
01:11:23
Speaker
They couldn't have done it. I mean, this is where I'm very critical of that. I think UEFA need to look themselves in the square in the eye and take responsibility for this, the organisation, that more than anything. Absolutely. This is something that we can change straight away. You're never going to change.
01:11:41
Speaker
football fans being angry after their teams lose. I mean, it's just you're always going to have idiots in every fan base. Some fan base is a little bit worse than others, but generally every fan base has... I don't even want to go into that discussion. I don't even want to go into that discussion. For me, this is just, it's about risk minimisation. And how do you risk minimise by not putting the referee and his family to walk through the general like,
01:12:05
Speaker
after a contentious final. It's so mind-bogglingly incompetent, that decision. To me, it's a no-brainer. The referee and the people who are traveling to and from a final should not go through that area. It's just risk minimization. You just remove the problem from happening.
01:12:26
Speaker
by doing that. Did you see what I'm saying? I'm not saying that the idiots who behave like that were right. No, I'm saying remove the problem. Just don't allow the situation to occur by not letting the referee go through. I mean, it wasn't just that. It was when he came to the airport via the taxi. It was, oh my God, they had. That's the thing. I mean, I genuinely think this would happen to most referees without a doubt after a big game.
01:12:53
Speaker
But so again, why risk it? Isn't it better to be safe than sorry? It's just, nah, I found it absolutely ridiculous. I felt that way. And we know that certain people in certain positions in all walks of life are generally, you know, politicians are one, royalty, referees, you know,
01:13:17
Speaker
What did you expect to happen when you walked through hundreds of Roma fans hours after they've just lost in a controversial game? It's just unnecessary. It's so unnecessary. Again, the situation could have been avoided. Yes, Roma fans shouldn't be behaving like that, but why risk it?
01:13:38
Speaker
Isn't it better to risk minimize so this situation doesn't occur by keeping the referee and his family as far away from the fans as possible in the name of security and safety? Isn't that the smartest thing to do without anyone saying that what those Roma fans did was okay? Surely we can be able to understand that.
01:13:59
Speaker
I don't understand. I don't know how it works as security after games. I don't know who arranges it, but even if I'm the referee Taylor, I mean, I wouldn't have... Personally, me, I can only speak for myself, I wouldn't have walked through that airport. I know people say, well, you should... But it's not about that. There's a lot of things you should do, but then there's also reality and the reality is...
01:14:18
Speaker
This is a risk. It's a risk that can happen without saying that it was that what they did was right. I'm talking about risk minimization. Make just avoid the situation from taking place in the first place without placing, you know, absolving anyone of anything. The situation could have been avoided entirely. That's the thing I'm talking about. And that, I think, is the people in charge of the referee security. That's on UEFA and the organizers.
01:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, right. Just before we do a preview, if you're on Cineversus, West Town, NIMA, give us another little credit. Yeah, so we're proud to present a new partnership with one of our patrons, Art Morelli.
Conference League Final Preview: Fiorentina vs. West Ham
01:15:01
Speaker
Art is an Apple-y fan who's just started up his own merchandise shop called Red Sauce, and he's designed some of the coolest and nicest couch-related designs we've ever seen.
01:15:10
Speaker
And he always donates a part of the revenue to a good cause. And in honor of Inter reaching the Champions League final, he's designed a stunning shirt named Fili del Anotel del Celloi del Estella, Children of the Night, the Sky and the Stars. And so the Italian football podcast is proud to present a partnership with Art and Red Sauce where all patrons and listeners of the Italian football podcast
01:15:29
Speaker
get a discount code where they get $10 off of this specific shirt and where $5 from every purchase of that shirt is donated to the Italian Red Cross to help those affected by the horrible floods in Emilia Romagna. So go to redsauce.bigcartel.com and click to the intro shirt, it costs $40. Type in the code T-I-F-P-T-E-N, T-I-F-P-10 in caps lock, all caps,
01:15:58
Speaker
in the checkout to activate the discount, shipping available worldwide.
01:16:04
Speaker
And I think he's still doing pre-order only. So make sure to go and check it out. He will print out and ship everything to you. And like I said, after everything is all over, RedSauce will make the donation to the Italian Red Cross and will send us confirmation of how much was raised and will read out how much more. For more information, go to redsauce.bigcartel.com. And if you have any questions, email him directly there.
01:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. Okay, right. Fiorentina versus West Ham, conference league final on Wednesday, the second of three finals for Italian teams. The first one didn't go our way. The second one, of course, on Wednesday, the third one on Saturday, Inter versus Man City, Champions League final.
01:16:50
Speaker
So, Fiorentina West Ham, when we were doing our predictions for the three finals, we thought that Fiorentina was the most likely Italian team to win the finals. No, I had Roma, Fiorentina and Inter in that order, from most likely to least likely. But I mean, it's not much, as we saw, there wasn't much between Sevilla and Roma, and Roma were better than Sevilla. And I don't think there's that much between Fiorentina and West Ham either.
01:17:21
Speaker
I'm just scared that Italiano's naivety is going to cost Fiorentino. That's what I'm scared about. It's a double-edged sword, isn't it? It could go either way. The clash of styles, I think, is what's the most interesting in this. We've got a team that plays very, very attacking, aggressive.
01:17:45
Speaker
expansive modern football versus a team that plays very defensive counter-attack in dour football, defensive football, solid. Look, look, you talk about Alegri. You talk about Alegri. Mois makes Alegri look like Pep Guardiola by comparison. Like David Mois plays a literally plays like people did in the 80s.
01:18:11
Speaker
It's just there is no, I mean, no, no, no, no, no, that's unfair because he literally plays like they did 20, 30 years ago. It's just get stuck in, you know, win second balls, you know, capital, you know, as Michael Antonio said himself, as a striker, you feed off of scraps.
01:18:32
Speaker
That is hilarious. I couldn't believe he said that, but I couldn't believe he said that about his own... Come on, everyone's got eyes to see with. The reason why Kanluka Shkamaka has failed at West Ham is not because he's a bad player. He's a quality player. The problem is he's just not suited to David Moyes' football. With David Moyes' football, you have to feed off scrap. That's the direct quote. And he's just not used to that. And that's 110% true. That's not even a criticism. I don't even think that's a mean thing that he said. I just think that's an accurate description of reality.
01:19:03
Speaker
That's just how it is. I wouldn't like it if my player said that about me. Let me say that. I mean, it's true. It's absolutely true. I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying. I can't believe he said that about his own manager. I mean, it was brilliant. It was absolutely brilliant. I mean, I think that both teams are in good form going into this game. And Fiorentina, I believe are the most important teams since March.
01:19:28
Speaker
West Ham actually have been in pretty good form as well. If you look at their recent form guide, the last game of the season, they basically didn't play it just on holiday mode for this game. So I think the form guide is both teams. Neither team are in bad form.
01:19:45
Speaker
As I said, the clash of styles, I mean, we know Fiorentina, they create a lot of chances, they have a lot of attempts and shots on goal. They've had by an absolute distance the most attempts on goal in the conference league this season. They've had 259 attempts on goal. That's 83 more.
01:20:03
Speaker
than the second place and that's Ghent and 90 more than West Ham. They've had nearly 100 shots attempts on goal more than West Ham and they've scored the most in the competition as well. 36 goals they've scored and West Ham are second and they've scored 27.
01:20:24
Speaker
But then, of course, you come to the other side of the coin, and that is the fence. West Ham have the best defense in the competition. They've only conceded seven. They're also unbeaten in the competition. They won every single one of their games, drawn one. Fiorentin have conceded 16 in the competition, so they've conceded quite a few more goals.
01:20:43
Speaker
than West Ham. So, I mean, you can see where this game is going to be won and lost. It's pretty easy to analyze this game. We know Fiorentina are going to take the game to West Ham. I'm sure Fiorentina will have more of the possession. They will have more of the play. I think they'll probably have more of the attempts as well. It's just about, you know, can they put their chances away? You know my reservations about that Fiorentina's attack with the exception of Nico Gonzalez. My reservations lay in defense. I just don't trust in defense.
01:21:13
Speaker
I think we're going to see, I think a few of them are going to score. My question, my issue is, will they be able to score enough to mitigate the number of goals that they will concede? That's the only thing that I'm a little bit concerned about.
01:21:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think West Ham won't have the quality that Inter have. So Inter had an attack in terms of making them pay, but regardless of that, they can't afford that 15-20 minute spell they had in the Coppa Italia final against Inter where they were just...
01:21:46
Speaker
They were dead. They were like the meme that Nimr always tweets out of a woman. I don't know how to describe it without some crew. If you know you know, basically.
01:22:02
Speaker
I've created this narrative calling that Nima's gif, or jif. It's not my jif. I think it's from Fear Factor, where you're supposed to hold your hands, you're supposed to grab your feet and keep them spread for a long period of time. I think it's from Fear Factor. That's where it's from.
01:22:23
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that was Fiorentina for 20 minutes. That's Fiorentina teams. Defending is optional. That's what they've got to avoid. But I mean, it's going to be fascinating from a historical point of view. It's great. I mean, this is Fiorentina's first European final in 33 years.
01:22:41
Speaker
Since 1990, so I mean, it would be great. Napoli win for the first time since 1990. Ferrantino winning their first European final since 1990. They lost to Juventus in the UEFA Cup Final. And that year, that was the summer that Baggio went to move to Juventus. And it's their chance to win their first title in Europe in over 60 years. 1961 Cup Winners Cup Final. And they beat Rangers 4-1 in aggregate. Your country, your country scored.
01:23:08
Speaker
scored one of the most. He scored and Enrico Albatouzi was in the team. He scored one of the most iconic goals in World Cup history against West Germany in 1958 when he's standing on the sidelines waiting for them to attack and then
01:23:25
Speaker
They don't. And then he starts jogging and runs through the side, on the outside, and then scores the goal. Look, no, it's a great player. And those two guys are still alive as well. So if you can get, so if you can get older, Ben Nemo, Marianne, Marianne, his lovely wife, they live in Florence. She's, she's very active on Facebook and social media. They are lovely people. Yeah. Marianne are lovely, lovely people.
01:23:56
Speaker
genuinely lovely people. And now, look, Fiorentina haven't won anything for a very long time. They need this. The entire city needs this. The Comiso project needs this because this would smooth over a lot of cracks that have been creaking, and it would give them a sense of
01:24:21
Speaker
belong, feeling that they can, you know, they actually are on to something here. And it would also secure Europa League football, which means three Serie A teams in the Europa League now, because of course, Atalanta and Roma there, you can have maximum of eight teams in Europe. Had Roma won the Europa League, then it would have been five teams in Europe and five teams in Champions League, two teams in Europa League and one in Conference League. Now,
01:24:48
Speaker
With that not happening, it's four Champions League teams, three and one, potentially, if you're in Tinoin. And of course, if Juventus get thrown out of the conference league by UEFA,
01:25:05
Speaker
We'll see what happens with that spot, but Italy are obviously guaranteed. It's going to be a historic game because also for West Ham, they haven't won anything in Europe since 1965. When Bobby Moore was the captain, they won the Cup Menace Cup back then. I mean, unless you count the Intertoto Cup when
01:25:23
Speaker
The Anglo-Italian Cup, that beautiful cup that was between the Serie B teams. That's the last time, if I remember correctly, West Ham met Fiorentina in the Anglo-Italian Cup.
01:25:44
Speaker
Oh, yes, they did. 1975 final. Oh, well, did not know that. That's interesting. Yeah, that was a unique competition. I used to go and watch that when I was a kid in the 90s, when I was at Lewton Town, when I was playing for them in their youth team, we used to get tickets and we used to go there and watch them.
01:26:03
Speaker
in the mid-90s and they played one game. We had... was it Marco Negri? I think it was... was it Marco Negri? I think he said that he played in one of the games. Anyway, going on a tangent now. But yeah, I think that's interesting. So this is a replay of that. Well, Fiorentina won that fight. 1975. Let's hope that's repeated in this. Okay, right. To finish off with now, let's do Pad Gio and Prem Face of the Week.
01:26:35
Speaker
I have one too, and it's a team-mate of the one that you have. I think Cesare Casabay has been outstanding in the under-20 FIFA World Cup, but for me, Tomasso Baldansi has shown what an absolute player he is.
01:26:55
Speaker
you know, he's been good in the Serie A, you know, he's been very good in the Serie A, but what he's doing in that tournament is ridiculous. It's truly, truly ridiculous. What a player. Look, I'm starting to think that maybe, you know, play with a Turk artiste, because to get the best out of Bal Dansi, if you can't turn him into a Metzala, because it's worth it. He's so, so what a talent they've got there.
01:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean this under 20, Italy under 20 teams having a fantastic tournament.
Italy's Youth Football Success
01:27:30
Speaker
I don't want to jinx it, but I think they can win this tournament. I said it, didn't I? I said it at the start. I said I thought they can win it, and the way that the tournament's opened up now, they've got Korea, South Korea, in the semi-final on Thursday. South Korea beat Nigeria after extra time yesterday.
01:27:51
Speaker
So it's really opened up for them. And then in the final they will play Israel or Uruguay. So, you know, Brazil went out, Nigeria went out, some of the other big guns, Italy knocked out England, of course. So the big guns, they're all gone, you know, and Italy.
01:28:07
Speaker
I mean, Cassidy and Bal Dansi have been, without doubt, standout players in this tournament. Cassidy has got, I think, six goals and he's got two assists. I mean, he's taken the tournament by storm. Bal Dansi has been fantastic, you know, just so skillful, so creative.
01:28:22
Speaker
But there's been a lot of good performances. There's been Jovaner, the captain, I think I've been really, really impressed by him, Ambrosino. Esposito's got a lovely flicked goal. One of the three Esposito brothers, along with Salvatore and... Who's the other Esposito? The one that's online, Nemo. Francesco Pio Esposito.
01:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, who's the other disposités? Salvatore, Francesco Pio and Pio. That's Sebastiano. That's it. They think that Francesco Pio is the best of the three brothers, don't they? He's the highest of the three brothers. He's only 17. Yeah, he's got a beautiful, a beautiful flicked goal the other day. So yeah, I think, yeah, the whole way to the other 20 team. Let's give it to them.
01:29:15
Speaker
Let's hope that they can go all the way. It'll be great for Italy's development. Yeah, absolutely. Prem face. Yeah, we've got the same one here. Okay, Steve McManaman. Steve McManaman for his comments during the Roma versus Sevilla final, where he remarked after some certain behaviour, I think diving from Roma players,
01:29:42
Speaker
certain nationalities behave in a certain way, which, as we discussed on the Thursday show, is just a blatant example of xenophobia, which is accepted in the English mainstream media. Nobody says anything about it. It's totally fine. You can be as xenophobic as you want about Italians. It doesn't matter. No, it's not OK. It's just not OK. Well, you said, I mean, it's basically stereotyping, saying certain people from certain countries behave in a certain way. I mean, do one, will you?
01:30:12
Speaker
just to do one. It's lazy and tiring and exhausting. Now I didn't enjoy that. And a hallmark of the of the of the prem face in the UK media. I agree 100. Okay, right. We've gone way over, but it was a big show. There was a lot to talk about today. And so we will let's leave it at that. Thank you for everyone. And this season that's been with us. And it doesn't end there. There's so much more to come.
01:30:39
Speaker
over the coming days and weeks. Of course, we have on Wednesday the final, so we'll have a full review of the conference league final between Fiorencina and West Ham, as well as a full extensive preview of the Champions League final between Interim and City. We'll do that on Thursday, Tuesday. We will have our Q&A episode that is tomorrow.
01:31:02
Speaker
And then throughout the summer, we will be continuing to do our shows as normal. We will be doing our Monday show. We will have a Thursday show. We will be doing regular transfer podcasts, bringing in transfer journalists and others to look at the market, to see what's happening, to analyze all the transfers and the
01:31:29
Speaker
the Mercato and you know those of us have been with us we know what we'll be doing so we will be doing special shows as well on the big transfers that happen when they go through, players that can't, players that leave
01:31:42
Speaker
And there'll be lots to come during the summer. And we know that the transfer market is always, for many football fans, is actually the time that is the most exciting and most popular for our podcast. Which is strange, but it's the way that football is nowadays. People get more excited about the transfer market than they do about the actual football. So we will be doing lots of stuff on that during the summer.
01:32:06
Speaker
Absolutely. We'll be focusing on the term Mercato of each of the main big teams and also some of the smaller teams and we'll be doing reaction podcasts to big events and stuff like that. So make sure to check that out. For sure.
01:32:22
Speaker
We also have the other 21 euros coming up as well, as well as the end to the end of the 20 World Cup. We also have the under 19 euros. There's the Women's World Cup coming up. So there's still lots of football going on as well as the Meccato. And it's exciting times for Italy because we're doing really well in Ukraine. They are, because they're producing talent. Italy, they adapt, even though Italian football is structurally a mess. It's still a footballing country.
01:32:51
Speaker
But it could be one positive with what's going on. You have to use more of your own play. You have to focus more on your youth teams. You have to adapt your youth teams, modernise your youth system. I think Italy have done that at youth team level. The problem is when they reach to the Serie A. But I think that's OK. I think the more you have players excelling with talent, because Italy is a football country. They will always produce players. And I think finally we're seeing a renaissance in the level and quality that Italy are producing. I'm really excited.
01:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So if you're starved for football over the summer, there's all these youth tournaments to keep an eye on. Okay, right, let's leave it at that then. We will be back on Tuesday for the Q&A with our Patreons. Please do tune in for that. Until then, ciao ciao.