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How LinkedIn Can Get Bigger and Better: Charlie Whyman
51 Plays3 years ago
"LinkedIn is way too slow, too reactive and not pro-active enough ."
That's a blunt assessment from Charlie Whyman, a LinkedIn trainer and "marketing momentum builder".
In this episode, Charlie and I explore some of the ways that LinkedIn evolved in 2020 and what she expects will happen in 2021. This includes:
- Analytics for personal accounts; probably not going to happen.
- More use of Stories as conferences and events come back to life.
- Improve content discovery tools through the use of tags.
- Better corporate pages
Charlie also offers insight into automation tools (they're evil) and how marketers are ruining LinkedIn by using these tools to drive leads and Website traffic.
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Transcript
Introduction to Marketing Spark Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
You're listening to Marketing Spark, the podcast that delivers insight, tools and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in 25 minutes or less.
Where is LinkedIn Heading?
00:00:13
Speaker
I've done several podcast interviews about how to use LinkedIn, but today we're gonna focus on where LinkedIn is going. And the person who's gonna help me look into the crystal ball is Charlie Wyman, a marketing coach and LinkedIn trainer. Welcome to Marketing Spark. Thank you very much for having me.
LinkedIn's Pandemic Surge
00:00:31
Speaker
So before we look forward, let's look back at LinkedIn in 2020. This is a tough question. I realized that. How would you summarize how people used LinkedIn and conversely how LinkedIn evolved?
00:00:45
Speaker
OK, so the first question, how did people use LinkedIn? I think to start with, especially with the global pandemic, everybody dived into LinkedIn and it was a bit of a free for all. The Facebook police were going a little bit crazy because I think
00:01:02
Speaker
sort of online professional etiquette, let's say, was thrown out of the window because nobody really knew what was happening or how to behave particularly. But the statistics show that there was a 55% increase in the amount of conversations that were being had on LinkedIn between first degree connections and a 60% increase in content that was being published.
00:01:26
Speaker
I think more and more people were realizing that actually in a world where we can't go and meet our clients, we can't go and meet our prospects and do those site visits, go to in-person networking events, that online networking and social selling was something that people needed to really sharpen their skills and take a little bit more seriously.
The Importance of Online Networking
00:01:45
Speaker
So I think things have quietened down a lot now, and especially with the introduction of Clubhouse, I think a lot of the noise has been taken away from LinkedIn, which I'm quite happy about.
00:01:55
Speaker
But yeah, it's definitely been very interesting to see how people are behaving, what is happening. A lot of people are getting good results from LinkedIn, those that know how to use it well. And I think some people are still really struggling to find their feet to understand, okay, how can I turn connections into clients? Or how can I effectively use the platform to market and
00:02:20
Speaker
make sales. Because I think that's something that I've always focused on is that it's not just about generating leads and adding connections into your network and broadcasting. It's about effectively using LinkedIn as a social selling platform as an online networking tool and getting the results there.
00:02:38
Speaker
When we can meet again, when we can go to conferences and meet people for coffee, do you think LinkedIn is gonna change dramatically? Or is this the new way to do networking in a very efficient way at scale? Personally, I find that coffee meetings and conferences take a lot of time, a lot of energy. Sometimes you just don't get the ROI, you go to an event for a whole day and you meet two people.
00:03:02
Speaker
Whereas on LinkedIn, I can connect with somebody for half an hour, boom, we're done. I can connect somebody else in the day. So I can do multiple connections. I mean, I look at my own schedule and I've got five or six or seven or 10 LinkedIn related conversations happening. I could never do that in real life. So what do you think we're going to do when we snap back to our former lives?
00:03:26
Speaker
Oh, you know what, I think, or rather I hope that people are just going to be a little bit more purpose driven when it comes to going to in-person events and trade shows. I mean, I wrote an article on LinkedIn back in 2018 about how to use LinkedIn to get more return on investment from events and trade shows, because that's my background. My background is events, trade shows, conferences, marketing using events.
Launching Products on LinkedIn
00:03:50
Speaker
And LinkedIn for me was always the biggest difference between getting
00:03:55
Speaker
actual sales from a conference or an event or just generating a little bit of a buzz. For context, me and the team used LinkedIn as a way to launch an MVP, so minimum viable product. At an event, we had eight weeks to launch, but we couldn't tell anybody about the product because we were a small business and if our competition caught wind of what we were doing, they could quite easily trump us and
00:04:19
Speaker
get there first so we had to launch a product and we had to create a buzz without actually talking about what it was and we use linked in as a tool to create lots of curiosity in the market and off the back of that we got ourselves pipeline from one event for twelve million pounds.
00:04:35
Speaker
So for me, LinkedIn has always been a tool to help you get more from events because you can be more purpose driven. You know, especially now there's like 740 million people using LinkedIn today. So imagine if you could curate
00:04:52
Speaker
a very targeted, very specific group of people and invite them to your event or invite them to meet you or even invite them to your digital event. For me, it's going to be nothing new. I just think people are going to start taking online networking and tools like LinkedIn a little bit more seriously and actually realizing that it's a tool to leverage and not a tool to replace.
00:05:15
Speaker
Those are really good points. And I think one of the most interesting things you said is that there are 740 million people on link. That is a massive global audience. And if you are doing business looking to attract prospects, launch new products,
00:05:31
Speaker
That's an unbelievable way to get in front of so many people. One of the things I think about is I used to spend a lot of time on my blog and maybe a hundred people visited a day, maybe in a good day it was 500, but I was very limited writing away my little corner, little nook. But on LinkedIn, my content can be seen by thousands of people.
00:05:51
Speaker
That's the one thing that i think is going to change how people approach linkedin as we move forward is that there's this realization that it's amazing platform for connections content if you want to do business these days you have to be on linkedin.
The Risks of Automation on LinkedIn
00:06:05
Speaker
Yes yes you have to be on linkedin i think it's just more that you're leaving money on the table i mean i've been saying this for years you are leaving money on the table if you're not using linkedin pandemic or no pandemic.
00:06:18
Speaker
from a content point of view, and from a marketing point of view, I say, and I tell this to a lot of people, marketers are ruining LinkedIn. Back before I started my business. Yeah, yeah. And here's why. So back before I started my business, I was working as the head of marketing for a group of companies. And I was overwhelmed, I was under a lot of pressure to generate leads, I was under a lot of pressure to demonstrate ROI, and all of the things that us marketers have to face on a day to day basis.
00:06:48
Speaker
And along came the growth hackers. And I'm not a professionally trained marketer. I trained as an engineer. I fell into a marketing role and ended up loving it. And I was kind of like wooed by the growth hackers that came to me and said, well, you can just automate these things. You can schedule these things. You can do all of this and it'll save you so much time and achieve a much bigger result. And at the time I was thinking, I can see how that would work. That makes a lot of sense to me. Let's give it a go.
00:07:17
Speaker
So I used automation on LinkedIn, which for the record, do not use automation on LinkedIn. Avoid it, like the plague. It will do you more harm than good. So I didn't lose my LinkedIn account for one because it's against LinkedIn's terms of use. I didn't damage my reputation because I like to think I'm quite clever with content and messaging, like starting conversations with people online is one of my
00:07:42
Speaker
my things. So I didn't get a damage of a reputation, but I did see quite early on that that wasn't the way to go. And also, I think a lot of marketers want automated tools. They want scheduling tools. They want to drive traffic to your website because that's what we can measure. It's really easy to measure these things.
00:07:59
Speaker
but in reality that's what's running linkedin because i get complaints from people every single day i'm just swamped by people trying to sell me stuff i'm swamped by people that just wanna connect for no apparent reason all i see is group messages by people just sharing blog post links and things like that and i think
00:08:19
Speaker
We're living in a world now where we don't want to be broadcasted to. We want to find things to engage with. We want to find things that are interesting. Also, we don't want generic marketing anymore. We want things that are specifically aimed at us. We have the tools and the ability to do that, but I think marketers are under so much pressure
00:08:41
Speaker
that you know i felt this before so i know this from experience but i also know that when you take a step back you slow down do less but better. That's where the magic happens that's where you get engagement that's where you reach the people that you know i'm gonna make the biggest difference so yeah i do say that market is really linked in but also the curious market is the markets that are genuinely interested in helping clients and understanding things from their perspective those markets are really gonna win.
00:09:09
Speaker
Before we move forward, I want to touch a little bit on automation. So I did some coaching for an organization that helped entrepreneurs do better, and their primary channel was LinkedIn. And one of the tools that they were all about was Duck Soup, which is an automation tool. And the idea is that you would send dozens, if not hundreds of connection requests
00:09:31
Speaker
out in an automated way and i always thought that that was a really strange way to do business it's blasting out to the world hoping that somebody will pick up on your,
00:09:41
Speaker
your can message and you can establish some kind of connection. I can understand the interest in doing things at scale. And to your point, marketers love automation tools. We love things that make our jobs easier and more efficient. But why do you think automation is this evil thing on LinkedIn? I'm not in the automation camp for sure. I do everything organically, but I'm curious about the evils of automation. And do you think that LinkedIn will start to clamp down on these tools?
LinkedIn's Stance on Automation
00:10:12
Speaker
LinkedIn are already clamping down on the tools. I think the main reason why automation on LinkedIn is bad is because it's against LinkedIn's terms of use. They're specifically targeting Chrome plugins. If you're using a Chrome plugin, that's usually the biggest warning sign. They don't endorse automation and they are actively going and shutting down accounts that use automated tools.
00:10:35
Speaker
One of the biggest reasons that you should be aware of, just in general, rather than relying on people giving you feedback, is that if you send, say, 100 automated messages to your ideal prospects,
00:10:51
Speaker
Then let's say you get three people replying to you saying, yes, I'm interested, please send me more information. That's like 97 people that have either ignored you or you've annoyed. And a lot of the people that you've annoyed will do one of two things. They'll ignore you or they'll block you.
00:11:11
Speaker
Now, you've got no visibility on whether you've been blocked or not, or also if people are ignoring you, but that's also you damaging your personal reputation. It's not the brand's reputation, it's the personal reputation, which also does in turn have an impact on the brand. I think the more you can see LinkedIn as an online networking tool and a platform to build reputation,
00:11:33
Speaker
it's easy to realize actually automation can really hurt that reputation because I think we're living in a world where Google search is so advanced and we expect that from all different search engines and the LinkedIn search engine is not as advanced as LinkedIn. So if you're sending mass connection requests, mass messages to people,
00:11:52
Speaker
there will be people that aren't suitable for what it is that you're trying to offer them. And again, I think it's that, you know, we want a more personal approach. If you meet somebody at a trade show or an event, you don't go straight in with a pitch. You say hello, you know, and you're more genuine about your approach. So I think the biggest piece of advice that I give people is behave on LinkedIn as you would do at an event, at a trade show, at a networking meeting, or if somebody, if you met somebody in the lineup of a coffee shop and you wanted to ask them what they do, or there was a,
00:12:22
Speaker
an indication that they could be a prospective client. We all have those interactions, but you wouldn't approach it in the same way. It's like marketers as well. I work with a lot of marketing agencies and they're like, well, why are we being ignored on LinkedIn? It's like, well, if you received the message that you were sending out to people, what would you do? And their response is almost always, I'd ignore it because it's not using natural language.
00:12:49
Speaker
There's a lot of talk about what LinkedIn could do, the features that it could launch, the new services that could get into. But I want to ask you, given all those asks on LinkedIn, how do you think LinkedIn reacted in 2020 in terms of
00:13:06
Speaker
The way that people are starting to use the platform and the demands that they were making to make it more interesting interactive useful it from the outside looking and it doesn't look like linkedin did very much at all. Although there could be a lot happening behind the scenes. Yeah well in my opinion linkedin is way too slow.
00:13:25
Speaker
way too slow, too reactive, not proactive enough.
LinkedIn's Feature Rollout Challenges
00:13:30
Speaker
Prime example, if we look at the introduction of LinkedIn Stories, which was quite a new thing last year, that they're talking about what new stickers can we integrate into the platform. It's like, well, first of all, give us a search function so we can search for the sticker that we want rather than have to mindlessly scroll through. Groups, last year, LinkedIn made a few tweaks to make groups more interactive and manages a
00:13:55
Speaker
able to alert their members as to what's going on. You can recommend one post in a group every seven days. You can now set notifications so that your members can get a notification with new group activity. You can now send an unlimited amount of messages to people in the same group as you that are not necessarily connected to you. There's lots of new features that have been released, but because LinkedIn aren't always as transparent in terms of what they are, you have to stumble upon them or you have to be in a network of
00:14:24
Speaker
of other people that are looking out for them. So I think LinkedIn are a little bit too reactive for my liking. They're not that easy in terms of rolling out new features and they're quite slow. But I always think the pros massively outweigh the cons and the frustrations. And I think, again, if you just keep thinking, right, OK, actually,
00:14:44
Speaker
just in its most basic form. It's such a powerful tool. There's so much you can do with it. With the free version, the advanced search filters that you can tap into are incredible. There's loads of people that think, oh, I need things in Sales Navigator to be able to search for people in a particular industry or with a particular job title and things like that. You don't at all.
00:15:04
Speaker
So I think, you know, I always say avoid that painful trial and error process. You know, if you can't get business from LinkedIn, work with, you know, it's not just me, there are thousands of other LinkedIn trainers out there, you know, work with somebody, you know, fast track your success, but also that there is way more to using LinkedIn than just knowing how to use LinkedIn. You need to know how to market your business on LinkedIn and generate engagement and use it as a social selling tool.
00:15:33
Speaker
It's funny that you mentioned LinkedIn stories because I love LinkedIn. I love commenting and creating content and I tried LinkedIn stories and it didn't work for me. I just didn't see the value. I tried to make a few videos. They got minor, very minor pickup. It struck me that LinkedIn was trying to jump on something that Instagram had done.
00:15:52
Speaker
and Snapchat and it didn't work for them. It may have not been native, it may have not been introduced properly, but that was something I think that was a fail. Let's look forward in terms of what LinkedIn could do in 2021. And I created a list, I have a long wish list of the things that I would like LinkedIn to do. And one of them, let's go through the list here. One of them is analytics for personal accounts. Even while analytics for corporate accounts are not that good and not that user-friendly,
00:16:17
Speaker
What are your thoughts about analytics? Because there's a company called Shield, which seems to have dominated the LinkedIn analytics market. LinkedIn has basically allowed them to have this established as really solid foothold. Do you think that LinkedIn will introduce analytics in 2021? I wish they would. I don't think that they will. I think they need to differentiate between their paid
00:16:38
Speaker
paid versions for LinkedIn a little bit more, like LinkedIn Premium and LinkedIn Sales Navigator, the lines are very blurred at the moment. There used to be a clear distinction as to what you would get for each, whereas now it's not as clear.
00:16:53
Speaker
Stories, I actually think that there's a big opportunity with stories. I think the fact that most people still use LinkedIn with their desktop, I know that my market, I target a very technical company, like tech companies, engineering companies, manufacturing companies, they use LinkedIn on desktop, mainly not mobile, and you can only access stories on mobile. And also there's still too many features that are missing to make it interactive and user friendly, which is stopping people investing time on them.
00:17:21
Speaker
and also the fact that we're living in a global pandemic and we can't go to events and trade shows, whereas I think that when we can do those,
00:17:28
Speaker
events and those meetups. That's where LinkedIn Live and LinkedIn Stories are really going to come alive. Whereas I think because we haven't had access to those, we've not really been able to leverage them to their maximum capacity. I think that last year we saw some updates to groups and from what I've been told and from what I've heard directly from LinkedIn, they're still working on making groups a much better resource for people and companies.
00:17:57
Speaker
So I think in 2021, we're going to see more features specifically in groups. I think we're going to see more updates to LinkedIn company pages. So recently, they've launched product pages on company pages, which they sort of had years ago, and then they got rid of. Now they brought them back again in a slightly different way.
Will LinkedIn Acquire Clubhouse?
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, so we've got product pages and I think we've got retargeting now. That was another update from last year. So if you're advertising on LinkedIn, you've got way more control and flexibility to be targeted and to be more specific, which I think is really exciting. So Clubhouse is an interesting one because I remember seeing that on your list. A lot of people are making speculations. A lot of people are making big speculations as to whether or not like- Me included.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, whether LinkedIn will buy Clubhouse, I mean Microsoft in LinkedIn. So I personally don't think they will buy Clubhouse. I'd be surprised if they do. Twitter are launching spaces that's underway. I actually think Twitter spaces
00:19:01
Speaker
will be better than Clubhouse longer term. That's just my observation. Why do you say that? I just think Twitter's more established and I don't think that Clubhouse has figured out where its main niche or where its main purpose is.
00:19:18
Speaker
There's a lot of issues with Clubhouse in terms of data protection and privacy and all of these things. And it's a very noisy, very distracting place. I do think that there are massive opportunities for it, but I think, you know, because I love Twitter, I'm a bit old school. So I think the fact that Twitter is giving me that functionality, you know, and they already have the built up infrastructure, they've been working on this for a while.
00:19:42
Speaker
You know, I keep my eyes and ears open and I'm reserving judgment too much, but I think Twitter spaces are going to be the thing, especially for a B2B market and other things to keep an eye on. But then Clubhouse, LinkedIn product managers are hosting regular rooms on Clubhouse where you can actually directly ask LinkedIn questions.
00:20:01
Speaker
and they're a bit frustrating to be part of because the same questions keep popping up and some of them are like really really basic questions and also like everybody's linked in expert on club house at the moment you know i mean if you spend every day on that seems to be you could be an expert in whatever you want if you spend every day or every waking minute on clubhouse and call yourself an expert and just
00:20:21
Speaker
keep volunteering information that you've heard from somebody else and obviously you know people are going to think that you are that expert because there's no credibility behind it that's what I love about LinkedIn you can really find out if somebody tells you something and you're like that sounds really interesting I wonder what this person's background is you can go to LinkedIn and find out what their background is whereas you can't get that on Clubhouse and it only links to Twitter and Instagram.
00:20:42
Speaker
So I think for B2B is great because you can host like ask me anything. So brands can have like ask me anything with their product managers, with their CEOs and invite their customers, but it's still very limited because it's only on iPhone. So I think it's one of those watch this space, but I would be surprised if Clubhouse is bought by Facebook or LinkedIn. I think they will have plans of their own.
00:21:06
Speaker
A couple other things that I wanted to talk to you about in terms of how LinkedIn could improve. One of them is messages, which I find to be so arcane in the way that it's structured and the way that you can search. And the other one would be connection requests. The fact that I get a connection request and I don't really get a lot of insight into whether the connection request makes sense.
Improving LinkedIn Connections
00:21:26
Speaker
I'm in the camp where
00:21:27
Speaker
I'm very selective in terms of who I connect with. I did a poll recently and there are a lot of people who accept every single connection request. So maybe talk a little bit about how LinkedIn could improve messages and how you see connection requests being taken to the next level. Last year, they did actually release a couple of updates to make management of your inbox a little bit.
00:21:51
Speaker
easier. So you can now multi-select messages and archive them and delete them. You can also use filters for unread messages and things like that as well. You can also say if you've got premium on LinkedIn, you can now set an out of office, which is really helpful. If you go on holiday and you want to let people know that you're not going to respond for a week or two weeks or however long.
00:22:10
Speaker
And I think as well, like LinkedIn are going to try and encourage more people to block and report messages that are not legit or people that are just trying to be too promotional or spammy. So I think they're going to try and do more with that. In terms of other functionality with messages, last year they enabled voice.
00:22:29
Speaker
messages. Now, personally, I love the voice messages feature. I've gained loads of conversions as a result of using that. But I've also spoken to a lot of people that don't like that feature. And they're sort of saying that they find it too invasive. They would ignore a voice message, they don't like it. So I think this
00:22:47
Speaker
there's a difference of opinion going on around voice. One of your questions was around whether you thought LinkedIn would have their own video conferencing tool. You can actually schedule a Zoom, a Teams, or a BlueJeans meeting in the messenger, which is really handy. I think
00:23:08
Speaker
They also have a calendar integration feature, which I think is a little bit clunky. I don't like it very much. So I think next, well, next year, this year, I think they'll do a little bit more with that. But what I would really, really, really love, and I think that they're going to do this as a premium feature, is that tagging. So you can tag messages and create specific lists. So not like you would get from Sales Navigator, but just so you can understand where those connections have come from.
00:23:34
Speaker
I always encourage people to put a reference in the message that you're sending to people. So if you met them at a particular event or a trade show, make a note in the message, say, you know, great to meet you at the PSA conference 2020. So you can search for that. So there are little hacks that you can use, but in terms of future updates, I'm not really sure what they could do. Ideally, they should overhaul the whole thing just to make it a lot easier because like you said, it is very archaic.
00:24:02
Speaker
The other place that I wanted to talk to you about is in terms of content discovery. So let's say, for example, you left a comment on one of my posts. I went to your profile to check you out and I wanted to say, I want to check out Charlie's content. There's really no efficient way for me to really go through your content because I'm going to have to scroll down all the posts that you've written
00:24:24
Speaker
over the past how many years and some of them are going to be great. I would like a way to focus on posts that, for example, that are all about LinkedIn tips. So I can filter out all your other posts and just focus on the tips or focus on or maybe be able to search by tagging or hashtags. Do you see that as a low hanging fruit for LinkedIn, something that they may want to improve?
00:24:46
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think they are. So the last product manager asked me anything, Clubhouse chat that I joined. I did ask LinkedIn whether they were going to add filters to hashtag searches because I think if you had the ability to search for particular types of content from an individual and search for hashtags that they're using in that content as a way of tagging or indexing that.
00:25:10
Speaker
that'll be really helpful. And they did say that they are improving their search, so they're working on their search filters and things like that.
00:25:17
Speaker
I don't know how long we're gonna have to wait before we see that type of thing. But I think that, and again, hashtags, so many people have no idea how to use hashtags. So it's one of those that kind of people need to use hashtags a little bit more before we get the search filters and things. But I completely agree with you. It would be lovely to be able to say, right, okay, I want to search for this particular type of content from, say, UK content creators,
00:25:44
Speaker
about LinkedIn or about Clubhouse or about Clubhouse and LinkedIn. Be able to use the Boolean search logic that you can use when you're searching for people to be able to use that when searching for content will be really, really powerful and useful.
00:26:00
Speaker
One final question in terms of new people to LinkedIn. I think you and I live in a world in which we think everybody's on LinkedIn. Everybody's creating content. Everybody's leaving comments. We look at it and wonder, well, why wouldn't you be engaged on LinkedIn? Why wouldn't you have an active presence? But there's lots of people who are not on LinkedIn actively or using it in a really bad way. So what's your advice to newbies, people who
00:26:24
Speaker
are hearing people like you and i talk about linkedin and the power of linkedin insane themselves i'm missing out on something really amazing how do they get started how do they move in the right direction and you got years of experience as a linkedin trainer so any insight on to on how you can make the right moves to take advantage of what is a very powerful platform.
New Users' Approach to LinkedIn
00:26:43
Speaker
best piece of advice I can give you is take it one step at a time. Try not to think that you can achieve everything that you want overnight, to put your curious hat on, put your marathon mindset on, be in it for the long term, but also explore, and I really need to emphasize this, explore what is gonna work for you,
00:27:06
Speaker
and the business that you're trying to promote or the business that you're trying to work for with. And the reason I say this is that everybody has an opinion as to how you can use LinkedIn. I've been very fortunate to use LinkedIn across multiple different industries and there is no one size fits all approach.
00:27:23
Speaker
So there is an you have to allow yourself the time to explore what's going to work for you. You have to ask questions when people give you advice. Make sure that you're adding context to your questions and you're challenging advice or at least understanding who's giving you that advice and where their experience come from.
00:27:40
Speaker
because there are a huge amount of people that are spending days and days and days on Clubhouse listening to everybody giving all of this advice away, but not understanding how to actually apply it to them and their business. Because at the end of the day, LinkedIn is just a tool.
00:27:55
Speaker
I can teach you how to use a tool in half a day, or in an hour, depending on how tech savvy you are, but it's applying what you... Apply the otter. The O in the otter behind me is all about objectives, so really focus on what you want to get out of it, and how can you leverage LinkedIn as a way to achieve that, because there are so many different ways that you can use LinkedIn. I've used it across lots of different business objectives, but focus on one thing, do it really well, and then move on to the next thing, or do more of it.
00:28:25
Speaker
So where can people learn more about you and what you do as a digital marketer and LinkedIn
Connect with Charlie Wyman
00:28:30
Speaker
trainer?
00:28:30
Speaker
So, best way to learn more about me is to connect on LinkedIn. So, Charlie Wyman, Wyman's spelled W-H-Y-M-A-N. Or you can visit my website, it's charliewyman.com. You can listen to my podcast, The Curiosity Key. But yeah, just connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a personal note or a message and just say that you heard me on this podcast because then it's always good to have context. And I'm one of those people, I like to talk to my connections. So, yeah, send me a message more than happy to have a conversation.
00:29:00
Speaker
Thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe via iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. For show notes of today's conversation and information about Charlie, visit marketingspark.co slash blog. If you'd like to learn more about how I help B2B SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic advisor and coach, send an email to mark at marketingspark.co. I'll talk to you next time.