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Climate Takes Retail Giants
56 Plays14 days ago
Welcome to Carbon13's podcast "Climate Takes" where we ask special guests for their "takes" on their industry and climate challenge, as well as setting a call to action, asking what will it take to solve the climate emergency?
This episode takes a look at the role retail giants are taking in climate in Europe. Our special guest Georg Reifferscheid leads the REWE Group Climate Tech Ventures team, driving climate tech innovation and startup collaboration within one of Europe’s largest retailer & tourism companies - their annual revenue tops €94 billion. They’re fully committed to their SBTI and achieving Net Zero as a Group by 2050.
Together with Carbon13’s Sara Jones, we take a look at corporate venturing through the lenses of investor, founder and corporate innovator. Georg shares the differences between VC and CVC, details how founders can build successful pilot relationships with corporates, and shares his leading lessons on how corporate innovators can operate within their organisations to bring change for impact and for their customers.
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Transcript
Introduction to MBTA Philosophy
00:00:10
Speaker
My philosophy is called MBTA, a Mindset Before Tools and Actions, right? Biggest risk is not to do anything, that we are 100% behind our SBTI goals, no matter what's happening out there, what no matter how political, geopolitical changes we have.
Welcome to Carbon 13's Climate Takes
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to Carbon 13's podcast, Climate Takes. Today we're deep diving into corporate innovation, pilots, and the psychology of the humans that generate innovation within corporations. Welcome to Climate Takes Retail Giants. I am joined by Georg Reiferscheid of Reva Group in Germany.
Georg Reiferscheid and Reva Group Introduction
00:00:50
Speaker
Welcome, Georg. How are you today? Yeah, thanks, Sarah, for having me. And it was a very wonderful introduction already. And yeah, I'm very fine. Weather's not that good, but everything else is fine.
00:01:00
Speaker
And I want to give some background to the Reva group because our German listeners will already be extremely familiar with what they do. and But for the UK listeners, Reva is absolutely gigantic. We're talking 94 billion euros revenue every year, 350,000 employees.
00:01:22
Speaker
And think of them as the German Tesco's. That's how big a role they play in Germany. So
Strategic Mandate for Innovation at Reva
00:01:28
Speaker
it's fantastic that we have Georg here, who lives and breathes how to generate innovation within such a retail giant. And I think, Georg, would you give us the elevator pitch of your role at the Raver Group?
00:01:41
Speaker
um and And then I'm curious as to your journey to that point as well. But but give us the elevator pitch. Yeah, the elevator pitch, how many seconds 30, 60, 90? No, as you said, Riva Group is a very large corporation. We don't just do retail, we also operate in convenience and tourism, but mostly in retail. Our revenue is also 60% out of retail. and Our mandate is strategic ah to bring strategic relevant innovation in our group. meaning all the relevant innovations that we look at, they should solve any kind of operational challenge that we have.
Reva's SPTI Climate Goals
00:02:16
Speaker
And as I'm based in the sustainability department within our CVC and I'm responsible for climate tech venture, and my goal is to find solutions that help us to decarbonize within our s SPTI journey. We have very ambitious SPTI climate goals. It's not just about decarbonizing, also about neutralizing ah later stage and is what we look at and if we find interesting innovations we are always open to work very closely piloting testing venture clienting but we also do direct investment series a okay um and your personal journey you've been on the entrepreneurial side
00:02:53
Speaker
And I'm also super curious, you're a lecturer in psychology as well.
Collaboration Between Corporates and Startups
00:02:58
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. Let's say one thing that always ah follows as a red line through my life is like, I'm always like in between worlds, right? I started very early being an an entrepreneur, even though, let's say in the beginning, I didn't call to myself an entrepreneur. I was just doing business, right? I like to develop, to um to create stuff.
00:03:20
Speaker
I then turned into a beverage wholesale, having stores and delivery service and many more. um and And before I started my second business, um after my my study program, I also switched sides at the university. So as you said, I went from being a student and a graduate now to being a lecturer. and I started mostly in the aspects of leadership and and and yeah general management. And then through a lot of different ah journeys, I
Building the Climate Tech Venture Unit
00:03:52
Speaker
dived into responsible leadership. So i was always driven by how can we be ah responsible leaders? How can we create value driven companies?
00:04:00
Speaker
and And I try to do it not just in theory, not just talking about cunt and whatever kind of ethical decision making, but translating it into real business. and And what about the corporate world? I mean, I've been in the corporate world also very early on, but still after that, I was always like front row, right? Your own companies, your employees, your teams that you are responsible for.
00:04:22
Speaker
And fast forward now more than 20 years. and ah And so I came across this role combining sustainability and startups within a very large corporate.
00:04:33
Speaker
And I said, OK, that's kind of it was like, OK, they're talking about me, right? They're looking for me. And um yeah, so I joined Rewe Group. um What is very nice again is that I am able to build something from scratch. I mean, the CVC unit has been kind of decided at end of 22. We have three different teams that we work with, three different focus areas. And I was building now, or I'm still building with my team, the Climatec Venture Unit.
Psychology's Role in Business and Innovation
00:05:00
Speaker
And it coming back to the question of psychology, yes, um from just talking about leadership, which is of obviously a lot of psychology involved, and I also moved to like doing a PhD. I haven't finished my my thesis, but still it's a lot of progress within in um corporate like corporate um and pedagogy right and and and corporate culture and and the science behind. So this is why, i let's say, whenever I do business,
00:05:31
Speaker
It's people doing business. It's, it's, ah there's always psychology running with no matter how, ah how many KPIs we look at. um It's at the end of the day, it's people working with people.
00:05:41
Speaker
Because your role is you're, a you're essentially a trust builder. Yep. And you are cultivating relationships and building trust. And how, how does your approach differ between the relationships you're building in the corporate C-suite down?
00:05:59
Speaker
with then also building the trust relationships with the founders that you're working with as well. Yeah, I mean, I always thought, but in the beginning, I started definitely inside out, right? I needed to have the internal network too. And not to start with, hey, there are nice innovations, you want to work with them, innovations, but listening to the operational departments, getting, as you said, trust bill, a very nice word, by the way. And and yeah, asking them, what is your problem? What are your problems, right, in in the operations? What kind of challenges do you have?
Balancing Corporate Expectations with Startup Culture
00:06:28
Speaker
always was focused on also sustainability climate. And still, there's a lot of stuff that we can find, right. And at the same time, making sure, hey, I'm not a new guy coming in and bringing you work, because everyone is busy, right?
00:06:45
Speaker
Everyone feels busy. and Everyone has enough to do kind of. And so this is to make sure, okay, what's the value that I can add with my work and that i'mm I'm, I'm, I'm Okay, it's maybe hardware, but I'm serving you, right? I'm serving your needs, your pain points.
00:07:00
Speaker
And if I get them clear, I get the trust. And then I look outside, right? What kind of innovations do we have that could fit? And so this is why I work very, very closely with all the operational departments, mainly currently with construction and energy departments.
00:07:14
Speaker
And ah yeah. And then outside, when I when i talk to founders, I i obviously... ah and use my my my founder entrepreneurial background and always say, okay, we are talking founder to founder, even though I represent very, very large corporate. right And I mean, yeah, sometimes also play the game a little bit and maybe highlighting again how big and important we might be to push you forward. right So because at the end of the day, it's not about bringing innovation in because sake of innovation, it's because of adding value. And I'm always a big fan
00:07:49
Speaker
win-win, no matter how how typical this may sound like a quote, but it is as it is, right? We need to see from the first moment on what is the win-win for both sides? What do we get as real recruiters? What does the startup get? And I don't like playing these typical games like right that corporates but or very often play with startups. And I think this is like combining these worlds again. right This is the parallel that always is in my life.
00:08:15
Speaker
um And being able to moderate between the different expectations between and the different cultural settings, this is definitely the biggest
Managing Innovation Impact and Sustainability Goals
00:08:23
Speaker
part. And it's not about what still a lot of people assume. It's not about forwarding startup ideas to the operation colleagues and then say move from there. But when we find that there's a technical operational fit, then the work begins, right? We are always the leading interface, leading the communication, leading the moderation, leading the negotiation if it comes to pilots. Um, as an intermediate to the operational departments.
00:08:49
Speaker
Um, so within the, the REIBA group, so there's different venture teams, you know, there's a climate team, there's ah a food team, and I think there's ah a third team, isn't there? And, um, I would love to get your take on how, how does your, does your approach actually differ? You're coming at it from a a climate point of view. and not just an out and out innovation for commercial innovation sake.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, and I definitely think that that makes a difference. um So because again, we we focus on on the impact, we focus on that it helps us to, I mean, speaking very operational to decarbonize, but let's put on a bigger picture to also kind of um to take it very pathetically to to kind of save the world, save the climate, right? And so meaning maybe in in some other cases, it's the, the and for example, aspects of measuring impact LCA a is is maybe just one smaller criteria. And in our case, it's kind of having impact, what kind of impact is one of the biggest criteria. And also, if I zoom out to what's happening in the climate world right now over the last year, or maybe, yeah, maybe since something happened in in in the US and and all of these, yeah, um awareness also in society, we also have to be realistic. I talked about expectation management several times that if I push the um sustainability, CO2, climate focus too much when it comes to innovation, that not everyone is waiting for
Reva Group's Commitment to Climate Action
00:10:23
Speaker
it, right? Not everyone is. And I don't mean about very now negative people not believing in the climate change, I'm even talking about, okay, and yeah, it's nice ah that there's also an impact, but that's not that important that some people think like this, right? Or if you even say this typical answer is like, yeah, I mean, this solution, yeah, there's some impact, but it's not that big in a sense of,
00:10:47
Speaker
in perspective to our overall emissions right and this is also why i also have to find a good balance how much do i push this yeah we also need to uh right save c o two save achieve the climate goals and and how much you say like it it helps you in your operation so it's a very thin line um because again as i mentioned not everyone is now um putting climate first, but I can say at it also as from our strategic point of view, backed by our C-level Frau Danila Büschel, Mr. Danila Büschel, who's responsible for HR and sustainability, that we are 100% behind our SPTI goals. No matter what's happening out there, what no matter how political, geopolitical changes we have,
00:11:31
Speaker
It's not about, i don't know, that sounds good. It's about really want to change stuff. And we know about the seriousness of climate change, of tipping points and everything. And this is why we 100% are aware and stick to our goals and want
Creating a Culture of Positive Reinforcement
00:11:47
Speaker
to find solutions. And still, if we come to implementation, if we come to getting people on board, we know again, that not everyone is ah pushing the CO2 topic.
00:11:58
Speaker
as a one I'm sure that, you know, when you've had a successful pilot and you're, you know, you you must do work with the with the departments to to reflect on the success, credit those who had a hand in it. And, Your team also gets to do that from an impact or decarbonisation point of view. And you get to be able to say, as a result of the work that you put into making this project a success, the company has benefited x Y, Z, and we've had this impact on climate.
00:12:31
Speaker
yeah And that then is, then surely it was also part of your role to make sure that's recognised by the hires up. And for them to then have somebody senior go, I've seen that work that you've done and I recognize it. And that was brilliant. And then that's how you have a a positive loop where someone can go, oh the decarbonization was as valued as another KPI.
Interconnected Work and Executive Sponsorship
00:12:54
Speaker
um Ding. Okay. i'm I'm like, okay, I'm, I want to, to have more success. Okay. Where's another opportunity for decarbonization. um It's building that culture of a positive reinforcement loop.
00:13:07
Speaker
um And to do that, you have to have the success recognised as well. That must be ah quite an important part of your role, actually. Yeah, and this is why I even highlight the interconnected work. So, for example, if we do this pilot that I mentioned in in cooling, it's always a combination of and it's innovation, it's sales because refrigerants and like cooling and fridges on. This is a sales topic, right? And then we have ah a sustainability.
00:13:38
Speaker
because it's ah it's about, ah again, decarbonizing, it's about CO2, and it's about the combination of all of these perspectives, right? Not not prioritizing too much between them and saying, okay, we go hand in hand. We look at all of these things. We don't just look, as you mentioned, right, just for impact and there's no business case. We don't just look just for business case and there's no impact.
00:13:57
Speaker
And this is what we what i'm focusing on a lot, what I'm very aware of, that we need to have to buy in from all of the people. And and this is, for example, why when we did this testing with the ah natural refrigerant startup, I invited the C-level like sales and and sustainability and both are sponsors. Right. And then At the same time, we always have the like venture innovation C-level also mean ah on board, right? So it's always a combination, innovation, venturing, sustainability, and then the specific case in the sense sales and energy and so on.
Challenges of Timing and Risk in Startup Collaboration
00:14:35
Speaker
For me, there's two um ah conflicts that you're trying to solve in your role. And I would love your take on these, which is one is the timing is that you know In early stage startup investing, the timescale of these startups is 5, 10, 15 years, whereas a corporate is, I've got problems I need to solve now.
00:14:56
Speaker
How do you reconcile that? And then the second conflict is is a big question actually to do with how do you balance a corporate's need to minimize risk?
00:15:07
Speaker
with innovation investing where the power law 80 are going to fail those are two big separate questions let's concentrate on the timing and then we can come to yeah yeah how do you manage the risk elements i'm super curious about that as well yeah yeah as as as so often enough right it's about the defining the middle in between those like listening what you need right now and at the same time being open to what can there be in let's say two three four years um maybe not ten because um and And yeah, but it it say it is it is a very big challenge because i I also don't want to miss on relevant innovation.
De-Risking Innovation Investments
00:15:41
Speaker
and But let's say if I work inside out, if I really focus on inside out, and my my colleagues
00:15:50
Speaker
they can say, OK, it sounds like a nice idea. but let's say when it comes to execution to, hey, do we want to test it? Because before we test it, just an idea, right? so um And this is the difficult part. And they they would they would say, yeah, we are open. we let Let's maybe have some about exchanges listen. Maybe let's give some feedback. But it's still like it's a long time until we can execute on it. So this is why, for example, when we do Climate Tech Challenge, that's a format I do regularly, we always look at least startups can apply tier L4.
00:16:20
Speaker
three to four when they when they when they start. um and and And this is let's ah also de-risking for the corporate. like If we look from the CVC perspective, when we invest, we invest in series A. I mean, it's not that late, it's not that early. and to Maybe to, I mean, not just maybe, but to de-risk a little bit. And at the end of the day, we are aware that that like and investing is ah is a bad game, right?
Corporate Venturing vs Traditional R&D
00:16:43
Speaker
um And this is why we also say, i mean,
00:16:46
Speaker
that At the end of the investing Series A in relevant startups is um it's like the the the cherry on the cake. and What's more important is to innovation into the group.
00:16:58
Speaker
And ah when we do direct investments, it's also just we only invest if there is a strategic ah value add through this investment. For example, we can co-create, we get exclusivity, we get know-how that we wouldn't get before. um Yeah, I'm not sure if I if i answered this like in this way that you expected, but it's it is definitely very thin line. and But I learned if if I just come with some visionary ideas that are just in the pitch deck, I won't get the people on board because they will say, yeah, nice idea.
00:17:29
Speaker
to Come back when when it's ready to to implement, not finally implement, but to test at least. And this is why we look for TRL 4, for example. Exactly. You're not, you know, in your role, you're not just looking for ah a you know, a successful investment and bet for you, the strategic value to the company is above all. So you might, you, you will come across startups that you love, but they're just a not right for the Raver group.
00:17:56
Speaker
And any you founder listening to this needs to understand that about ah your CBC in particular. um And then for so how about has how do you how do you build an understanding of of risk with your with your colleagues? What does do you expect to have a similar failure rate to either your test pilot projects or your investments um as a BC would?
00:18:21
Speaker
Um, let's put it like this. The, the, the biggest risk is not to do anything, right? That's what we all agree on. And that's also what the operational colleagues agree on. They know that we kind of need to look at innovation. And this is why everyone is that at least the champion to the idea, find and build trust and relationship with us that they are very thankful at the end of the day. So and they don't see it as a, let's say, big risk, m let's say, to invest time. And then after one year, they realize, OK, the startup will not be able to. I mean, yeah, maybe it can be like, ah, we could have saved the time. But let's say the need for innovation, people that I work with is clear. So meaning the biggest risk is not to do
00:19:02
Speaker
something. um And then it depends, right? on and Let's say risk, what is the risk? risk is Because I always say we don't get stupider, right? Or let's say we don't get more stupid when we listen to innovative startups. um And this is also what everyone agrees. Yeah, let's let's have a look. Let's just see what is out there. And the the d um The time that we spend, that's that can be a risk, but still people know about their own schedule, right? If if if we look for, like I don't know, follow-ups with startups, if we look for, like it's their time schedule from the operational departments that that's giving the the kind of structure. And so this is meaning if they decide on, yeah, that's time that I reserve for innovation, it is as it is, and no one will see this as ah as a loss.
00:19:46
Speaker
When it comes to money that we invest, I mean, let's say in the pilot stage, it's it's not that much money that we usually invest. And and we also sometimes see it as an external R&D investment, right? Because startups do, if you like, our external R&D in these particular topics and verticals
Integrating Venture Teams within Reva Group
00:20:05
Speaker
maybe. And um so, um ah yeah, I think we have a good basis to to look and and not to focus too much on risk.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, um got you. um and So for a corporate, what do you think is a key thing for people to understand between R&D department or a sustainability department or any department, which every department might have an onus to innovate? What is the difference in thinking between those things and a corporate venture arm?
00:20:41
Speaker
and how should a corporate innovator approach? What are the different roles those departments play? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, as you know, right, there are a lot of different approaches out there. If you also to look at this theoretical part behind how to build and stuff. So there's no blueprint at the end of the day, right? There is no, it always depends on on obviously the corporate culture and stuff. So our,
00:21:03
Speaker
CBC, if you Google Rewe Ventures, you don't find even anything that much, right? Because we are not that, oh, this is our CBC and we will go out, but we just implemented internally and these central teams. Like, as I mentioned, right, I'm working from sustainability department as climate tech, and we have a colleague working in food tech topics.
00:21:23
Speaker
And he's working in the in the purchasing category department. And then i have we have a team looking at retail tech solutions. And they are actually working in Rewe Digital, which is one of our companies. And they operate out of R&D. So internal R&D, right? Looking for trends, scouting. They have a structured methodology, how to look at innovation and innovation. They obviously also have internal KPIs and stuff. Let's say my approach is very often hands-on pragmatic. We haven't defined it like this maybe in the beginning when they said, okay, let's have a climate tech venture team. and So this is why I, for me personally, in my daily work, I don't need to separate that intensively between
00:22:07
Speaker
um venture clienting, piloting Series A, even though it is obviously different approach, because i look at finding solutions that help us in the operations.
Pragmatic Innovation Culture
00:22:18
Speaker
And if out of these findings, we can generate potential Series series A,
00:22:23
Speaker
That's nice. That's perfect. If not, that's also still fine. And if if I have a solution that is, again, a little bit earlier stage, we do pilots and then work on it, that's fine because we get smarter through it, right? We we learn.
00:22:36
Speaker
And if there's a venture client in case, meaning there's a final solution out there and and we just made the connection, then Rewe Group or the department becomes customer, it's also totally fine. so But that's maybe even...
00:22:48
Speaker
a very, it's a personal translation based on my background and my pragmatism, trying to translate this into a group. So I don't create 50 slides of, Hey, how do to define our corporate venturing or is it CVC or how do we define it? um I just try to bring value into the group.
00:23:08
Speaker
So if you were talking to somebody who's trying to emulate what you've done at Rava Group and they are at ah another particular retail giant or somewhere similar, um Would you say to them that the conditions for success, there's going to have to be an openness to innovation already um you ah or some sort of goal, for example, an SBTI goal that they can work towards um and then implementation of pragmatism and trust building. Is that the starter advice you would give to somebody? Yeah. And and removing barriers, right?
00:23:43
Speaker
Because I think a lot of external innovation units right They just built from the, yeah, let's look at innovation, let's look at whatever, yeah, trends, nice, yeah. And I don't mean this in a negative way, just mean like, yeah, and there's a lot of drive, and but they overrun very often internal departments because they are these innovation guys who are crazy about innovation and try to push things into the departments. And this this is why very often they fail. They fail because of...
00:24:10
Speaker
um let's say not the adequate communication to get the people on board. But if you start listening first and saying, Hey, okay, I mean, I can help you, but first of all, I want to understand what's your pain points. and But if I don't start with their day to day life right now, i don't get them on board. And if I, but if I have them on board, then I can start looking, Hey, should we look at three to five years? Should we look at seven to 10 years?
00:24:35
Speaker
Maybe this is the difference. And, and in my role, m it's ah It's about, again, expectation management. That's the word I use daily basis. Also regarding myself. I know that very often operational people don't wait for someone showing innovation and then they don't um always have the time and they' or they they think they don't have the time
Evaluating Startups for Pilot Projects
00:24:58
Speaker
for it and so on. So I'm very aware that things take a long time and it's a long process so I don't get frustrated. right It's about frustration tolerance. And I don't know so so I know that there are barriers because of the psychology of human beings. Hey, there's something new. Oh, it's a fear.
00:25:15
Speaker
Yeah. And this is why I work based on the assumption that there will be barriers and that's neither bad or good. It is as it is because we're dealing with human beings and I'm prepared and I try to remove the barriers while we work together.
00:25:28
Speaker
And I'm not like complaining about ah the operational departments. They always like try not to work on it. I don't know. it's It's definitely, I would say, a very big part of culture, psychology, expectation management and getting people on board.
00:25:42
Speaker
um I have a question as ah somebody works for an investor, which is when we we're analyzing for an investment case, we're looking at metrics, you know, traction and and and things like that. When you're analyzing, particularly for a a test pilot, what kind of proof points makes a startup stand out?
00:26:04
Speaker
um like when i When I have the technical operational department um on my side, let's say that the first step we always do is like, if you like, in technical due diligence um on on on the solution, right? The TRL, the maturity on the solution. And while we do this, um at the same time, I do my process and internally about especially the the kind of team behind the founder set up, the way they approach challenges, because when you do to pilots with a bit large corporate, there's a lot of challenges that will come, how they deal with it. and It's not that much about traction
00:26:42
Speaker
um at this at this
Effective Collaboration and Communication with Startups
00:26:45
Speaker
stage. It's more about, again, their assumptions, also their assumptions towards how to work with large corporates. Right. what what What's their expectation? and And so because this gives me an intro in feeling of how they think, how they again, what kind of assumptions they have and how it would be if I would then invest in them and work even more closely.
00:27:10
Speaker
about their again assumptions for growing assumptions for like building teams assumptions for what would be my next hires and all of these things so it's let's say it's always kind of an on the forefront there would be like technical operational due diligence but i'm doing not always in a very structured way maybe sometimes but more like and also from the experience and say i'm doing my due diligence on everything else behind the team the assumptions the working culture even if you like.
00:27:37
Speaker
in In comparison tools see to a VC maybe they they would ask for hey what about attraction do we have any pilots how is it going right um and do we have like an LOE do you have an MOU or do you have like a contract already and I mean I'm looking at how is the how do we work together right. What kind of questions what kind of questions do you ask them to try and tease out how they're working together.
00:28:06
Speaker
No, I mean, through the fact that we work together, it's already everything that that's happening, right? Communication, keeping deadlines, how to communicate, and how complicated is sometimes maybe is communication. So I don't need to ask typical questions because it's happening while we work, because we work before we look for traction stuff. Right. So this is it's a definitely different approach.
Engaging with Startups: Personal Interactions
00:28:29
Speaker
There's a lot of difference, obviously, between a CVC and a VC. And also the the fact that, I mean, in VC needs to earn money, right, needs to have in return, needs to look for exit. And I don't look for exit potential.
00:28:44
Speaker
and Because at the end of the day, we want to work with the company as long as possible, right? So sometimes it's like, it's even contrary goals, maybe, right? So, and and we, because again, if I bring in ah a company or a startup that might sound ah nice and very experienced, but the working together, right? the Just the operational working together, like the way they communicate, the way they respond is is' bad.
00:29:12
Speaker
i will lose my operational buy-in from my colleagues, right? Because they say, hey, what kind of startup did you bring in here? I mean, technical solution, yeah, nice. But I mean, we need to work together, right? When something's not working in a pilot, again, how responsive are they? When will they be there?
00:29:29
Speaker
How creative if are they when it comes to strategic value? And it's not about transferring 5 million and then waiting. It's like always working very closely together. And okay, so likewise, with, you know, ourselves as investors, we're looking for things like a well organized data room, with documentation in that we're looking for pitch deck, etc.
00:29:53
Speaker
How really at the very start of their interaction with you, maybe you've just had an introduction, or you've started reaching out to them, and it's the first communications with you, what can a startup do to be organized for their conversations with you?
00:30:07
Speaker
m um Again, maybe as as it's the, the um I mean, I always do like the first calls and it's always about really, I don't i don't look at pitch decks in this sense. and and I look at, let's have a getting to know each other a call, right? I want to get to know the team and and who are the people behind.
00:30:25
Speaker
And then I ask the, if I think, okay, that there could be a fit, right? And it's not that, it's not that, let's say, oh, how's my day? I didn't like the face of the founder. I don't forward it internally. It's,
00:30:36
Speaker
Again, I have a background in psychology, right? I have a background in a lot of experience. So I and I also work with different so psychological personality profiles, not at in the first moment, but they are running in my head, obviously. Right. And I think about, okay, would this be a team that my that we as a company like to work with?
00:30:55
Speaker
um and um And then the the first part is always like, um I don't ask for the pitch deck, like for the investor deck, I ask for the technical, for the product deck, right? And then we get then then i bring them together with my operational colleagues and while I moderate and they talk about technical details. I mean, obviously in between I get lost because of the technical details, but i't get I don't get lost of how, again, how do they communicate, right? Yeah.
00:31:23
Speaker
is there Is there a good basis for working together with all the aspects that I mentioned, expectation management, communication skills, um knowing what you want, knowing why do you actually want to work with River Group, right?
00:31:37
Speaker
As easy as it sounds, right? Why do you want to work with us? um And through all of this, a lot of other buckets we can check on, right? I will ask, a whatever, what other kind of pilots is going. And at some stage, I obviously altered. And if if we turn from piloting to series A and my venture, my overall venture perspective, then definitely the the process changes, right?
Success Metrics for Pilot Projects
00:32:01
Speaker
And then the fact that my colleagues are working with the startup It's just, okay, we are one of the customers. But if I look at the data room, as you mentioned, for example, if I look at the other, then Rewe Group is just one customer. And I look for way more potential than just what we have as Rewe Group.
00:32:20
Speaker
And then I extend my view, obviously. and then we have like a clear structure, target assessment process and so on. Yeah. etc And then when the pilot is running, do you have a ah common framework for assessing the success of each pilot or are they so individual that it really depends on ah maybe the department the operational department's framework for success?
00:32:43
Speaker
and That's a good question. I mean, obviously, again, we we don't just do pilots for the sake of doing pilots. So meaning the technical or app proving the technical fit and the promises that this technology technological innovation promises, that is what we need to to to check on. Right. So for example, I mean, if we have we are we doing currently and um a pilot in in cooling refrigerants, right? Natural refrigerants. So obviously, what do we test? We test for like efficiency. We test for like ah ah heating, um like the up there. I don't know the English word right now. Sorry. um we We look for the noise, obviously. So we have clear KPIs. We define the KPIs with the operational department bi beforehand. And and
00:33:30
Speaker
do we get Do we see the the potential when comes to more efficiency? Because at the end of the day, again, it's not doing innovation for the sake of innovation, but we need to have a business case ready in order to get the pilot ready.
00:33:43
Speaker
and if If we move to decision making sea level, and they are open for innovation, but again, not for the sake of just doing innovation. if you invest 100k in a pilot, and I need to show at least a little somewhere, right? Okay, this can be the future business case. And a future business case can be if you replace all our, well not all, but maybe part of our current refrigerants through this more efficient one, this is how much we save. We have less struggle with maintenance, we have less struggle with this and that. And
00:34:14
Speaker
the the The business case calculation is is done before we do like a pilot. And this these will then be our KPIs. um And ah for example, last week we did like and was a lot of people internally looking for a new um ah cleaning air. Right. and and And we have a lot lot of different use cases with within our overall group.
Ongoing Innovation Challenges
00:34:38
Speaker
Because we are so large and we have so many different business units. That's why we have usually very a lot of business a lot of potential use cases for a startup solution. and then we start prioritizing them. How realistic is like a first test hands-on in this or that business unit?
00:34:58
Speaker
um I was going to ask, actually, is there a particular area, that a challenge a business challenge you're working on at the moment where you're struggling find you're struggling to find startups which can which can solve that challenge?
00:35:12
Speaker
um ah Let's say there's, I would say right now, and because in the beginning we looked at alternative materials, especially green concrete, for example, we looked at HVAC, now we looked at insulation, the next challenge would be logistics and supply chain management. We're just collecting the the pain points topics right now. i'm I'm not sure if there's really one topic where we say, okay, we didn't find anything so far. Yeah.
00:35:36
Speaker
It might be too early for you to be able to say definitively, but would you say there's a ah startup that you can talk about publicly, which you think's moved the needle the most on emissions for Reva?
00:35:47
Speaker
I would say it's too early. Still too early. Would you give us a couple of examples of um of startups and at Reva, though, that you think are doing interesting work?
00:35:59
Speaker
ah With us or like, let's say, in general out there in the market? With you. Now, usually we are, again, very, we are not that loud outside, but we are currently, and this is what we're going to publish soon, or maybe even the next days, it's like we're doing an a pilot it with Magnotherm or Magnotherm in Germany in the area of natural refrigerants, again, cooling, and in in the stores and this is what we are working very closely with.
00:36:24
Speaker
and Besides this again, a lot of i talked to a lot of startups, we also like evaluating pilots with a lot of startups, the the whole topic of CDR, right, and everything that's coming there, that companies and so on. I mean, it's obviously not that close to our ah strategic business units operations, but still we need to have answers when it comes to, as we call it,
Advice for Corporate Innovators
00:36:47
Speaker
neutralization. And and there's a lot of innovative stuff happening.
00:36:52
Speaker
But again, it's too early and and we wouldn't pick one startup out of the... Often when I'm talking to innovators within corporates, they've had that background, if they've been a founder or they've been at a so at a VC and they've had the ability to to develop their mindset in that background.
00:37:09
Speaker
What would you advise somebody where their career has been almost entirely within a corporate, but now they actually want to understand innovation? What would your advice what be a pragmatic, practical step for them to either build out their career in the corporate towards innovation? or is there something you should be doing outside of their main role that would actually help them move into a more innovative position?
00:37:32
Speaker
Um, yeah, that's, that's, that's a big, and very important and a big question. So again, I would say it depends obviously on, on the, on the, uh, on the corporate culture the corporate setup, but let's say, because you're asking for the, for the person and what kind of why is, and I would always say, I mean, it's not me that invented the question, but obviously I, I use it as my leading one. It's like, start with the why, right? Why do you want to do this? Why do you think innovation? Because it's not just about, oh, fancy, nice topic. It's a mouth. If you want to,
00:38:02
Speaker
implement innovation in a corporate, it's about removing barriers. And I don't mean this mean this from a negative standpoint and all pessimistic, no, realistic. yeah So if you expect to, ah I want to look at innovation and work in innovation because of all the nice innovation out there. Yeah. Okay.
00:38:19
Speaker
But if you really want to execute innovation and make it livable and tangible, you need to work with people where there are most likely some kind of barriers and you need to be prepared of these barriers and don't think, oh, it's very frustrating. No, it's part of your job, right? It's the same like if you're a leadership position and you can't say, okay, leading people is very annoying. Yeah, that's part of it.
00:38:42
Speaker
That's 99% of it, communication, all of this stuff, right? So, and I don't think, um I don't know if there's like, i wouldn't say, look for an whatever kind of explicit knowledge or education that you need. I'm always coming more from software elements. Why you want to work in this?
00:38:57
Speaker
for yourself, what do you like, what you don't like in in working in companies. Be realistic about your corporate culture. Also be realistic if you have worked and in whatever kind of role and then move to to innovation that you're still maybe your colleagues I don't see your older background. I don't know.
00:39:18
Speaker
Right. I mean, all of this, i highlight a lot as you learned now through the interview here. I highlight a lot the interpersonal aspects and they are always relevant, no matter if we talk about innovation, if will talk about something else here.
00:39:33
Speaker
um And I still think that so many people underestimate right? Because it's not about finding whatever kind of trend, AI, innovation scouting tools.
00:39:45
Speaker
They are nice to find innovation. But if you want to bring innovation in the group, it's about people. It's about people. And I think you mentioned AI. And i actually think what's wonderful is...
00:39:56
Speaker
A lot of people, even if their role is not explicit innovation, has gone, AI is an opportunity for me to become an expert on something and carve out an innovation role within whatever department I am in. And it's it's um ah ah it's it's getting a lot of people who are excited about something new to then ask themselves, how can I apply this? And so your perspective on that is crucial because you've turned it from The spark may be this AI tool is really cool and I'm really excited about it. I want to understand how do I work with these models? What's this layer, et cetera, et cetera.
00:40:35
Speaker
You're then saying you've had that spark of passion. Now go into listening mode and problem solving mode and relationship building mode. And you will win when you combine the two, the understanding of how the technology works and that relationship building side of
Goals of Climate Innovation
00:40:49
Speaker
things. So I think for any any of our listeners, it's a combination of those two things that ah that that hopefully would give you a chance at the success. Yeah. and And maybe I can even now as some kind of conclusion, because um in all of my work, and I developed this before I went to Rewe Group, is my philosophy is called MBTA, Mindset Before Tools and Actions, right? If you translate it even more easier, again, how to...
00:41:18
Speaker
and Sorry, the why to before the how to. right Again, it's not that a lot of people talk about it, but it's about like the the translation behind. So people decide only on the why to, even if it's conscious or subconscious.
00:41:34
Speaker
Right. On the understanding, do they get the why to of everything else? Again, why should we do innovation? Why should we do this and that? And the how to is the second question. But a lot of people fail on. No, it's about the how to. this is why everyone is looking for how to write checklist guidance. All the shortcuts. I promise so many how to's. But again, it's not about the how to, it's about the underlying why to. And you can find a lot through ai and Still, again, at the end of day, it's about implementation. And then there is this relevant part of the human being in front of you and their understanding about what's the why to behind. Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
So this is why this is always crucial. So my final question then is, give me the why two for why you do climate innovation at all. The why two is to bring to create, first of all, to create, to bring value to and and and ah value on the one side regarding the operational needs, that the corporate itself, the goals that we have, then also obviously regarding climate goals, regarding sustainability. So it's a combination all of this, not just for
00:42:45
Speaker
specifically for, oh, we need to save the world, but we we need to try to combine the different layers of all the challenges that we have. And we have operational challenge, we have very individual challenges, we have corporate challenges, we have climate challenges. And to combine all of these and to really focus 100% on the pragmatic translation, execution and creating this real value. no Don't just talk about theory and theoretical innovation and and impact, but really bringing concrete results in form of impact into our group and adding impact to the climate.
Key Takeaways and Conclusion
00:43:20
Speaker
Thank you, Keogh, very much for giving us your climate takes. I think what we've learned from this podcast is i think climate takes the psychology of building relationships. I think it takes um business cases and ah strategic and pragmatic planning.
00:43:41
Speaker
It takes working between the collaboration between startups and corporates. And therefore, I think we can say that climate takes retail giants.
00:43:52
Speaker
Thank you very much, Gail. Thank you for having me.