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Climate Takes Critical Materials
42 Plays2 months ago
Welcome to Carbon13’s podcast “Climate Takes” where we ask special guests for their “takes” on their industry and climate challenge, as well as setting a call to action, asking what will it take to solve the climate emergency?
Climate Takes Critical Materials covers the most global question of this podcast so far: the supply chains of critical materials. They are the stuff we need for the world's energy transition, its energy storage, and even the screen you're reading this on.
But, one battery maker alone can have over 10,000 suppliers. A renewable energy project can be killed entirely by a 6 month delay in materials supply.
So we talk to Sarah Montgomery, CEO of Infyos, an AI supply chain operating system for energy and mobility, built by experts in Chinese supply chain data supply chain disruption.
Subscribe to Climate Takes to find more content on founding and investing in climatetech, with Takes on green chemicals, innovative materials, AI, and hard won lessons in climate entrepreneurship.
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Transcript
Introduction to Climate Takes
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to Climate Takes, Carbon 13's podcast where we ask our guests for their takes on their industry and the climate emergency, as well as asking what's it going to take to fight the climate emergency.
00:00:26
Speaker
This edition is Climate Takes Critical Materials.
Critical Materials in Climate Tech with Sarah Montgomery
00:00:30
Speaker
This is a huge, huge area in climate tech, and I'm delighted to be joined by Sarah Montgomery, CEO of Infios.
00:00:40
Speaker
In your typical battery supply chain, you can have over 10,000 suppliers. They are 10, 20 years ahead of realizing that yeah know the world that we've lived in, both from a climate and an air pollution sense doesn't make sense, but also from an economic sense.
00:01:01
Speaker
Supply chains are the biggest cost to these projects and therefore one of the key pieces for these projects actually being successful.
Origin and Role of Infios
00:01:09
Speaker
you know, you ordered something that you thought was going to arrive in 12 months time. And actually they say, no, it's going to arrive in 18 months time.
00:01:21
Speaker
Hello, Sarah, how you doing today? Hello, very good and very excited to chat more. Brilliant. sarah ah Sarah and Infios actually are from the very first cohort of Carbon13's Venture Build it You're are OGs launching in COVID.
00:01:37
Speaker
And Infios is a supply chain data platform for critical materials from batteries and energy storage all the way up to solar and wind.
00:01:48
Speaker
um We're going to deep dive into this. Sarah, at first off, somebody might hear batteries or energy storage, and they might be thinking AAA or Tesla. When we talk about energy storage, what are you actually working on?
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah. For sure. So when they say AAA or Tesla batteries, they are correct in both of those. I guess at a simple form, batteries are just a way to store energy, convert that into electricity when we need it But there's a bunch of different types of batteries and a bunch of different types of battery chemistries.
00:02:25
Speaker
And so what the battery is that you need in a certain situation depends based on a lot of different variables. So for example, you can look at what is the cost of the battery? What's the cost of the raw materials?
00:02:36
Speaker
What size of battery do we want in this application? What weight of battery do we want? So for example, you know The reason why we have batteries in in cars today but don't yet really have batteries on planes is that weight is a big challenge with batteries.
00:02:51
Speaker
And a lot of other variables decide like what specific battery makes sense and in different applications or doesn't. At Infius, where we sit is working with large batteries or large battery applications. So it could be smaller batteries, but being used at a wide scale. And so that primarily means that we're working with the businesses that are putting batteries it out into the world.
00:03:15
Speaker
And so that mostly means right now we're focused on two
The Importance of Energy Storage
00:03:20
Speaker
core areas. One is renewable energy, which is where we work in batteries, but as ah we were also just touching in solar and wind as well.
00:03:27
Speaker
And then the other side of that is working in automotive EV applications of batteries. so And I think
00:03:40
Speaker
the story that we want to tell when we look at energy storage is... just how important it is not only to nation's industrial strategy, but also to climate tech as well.
00:03:53
Speaker
Why does energy storage matter, Sarah? Yeah, so I guess to start with the first or the second piece of what you're saying, why it matters on a climate front is that the single most important lever to reduce carbon emissions by 2030 to triple the global installed capacity of renewable energy.
00:04:15
Speaker
And when you look at the energy sector, that they account for about 73% of global greenhouse gas emissions. And so the vast majority. But when you look at, okay, we need to triple renewable energy capacity, what does that really mean?
00:04:31
Speaker
Obviously, the starting point of that was we're going to put a lot of solar into place and we're going to put a lot of wind into place and energy. then you know we're also going to do electric vehicles and so on but one of the big challenges you have for solar and wind is it's not always windy and it's not always sunny and so what happens when you know it's dark and we need energy is to typically you fire up coal power stations was kind of the old way of doing it where batteries come in is okay it's super sunny during the day let's store all this energy into these batteries and then release them when we don't when we
00:05:06
Speaker
have huge demand and it's not so not so sunny. Or the other challenge how you balance this load of energy that's needed on the grid. So, for example, if everybody is wanting it at the same time, the grid really struggles with that. And so that's also where where batteries can come into play.
Global Supply Chain Complexities
00:05:24
Speaker
And so essentially just one of these essential pieces of the puzzle for how do we get renewable energy to really work at scale?
00:05:34
Speaker
And you said by 2030, that's now technically less than five years away. This is happening now. This is not early stage prototyping technology.
00:05:47
Speaker
This is large corporates actively building energy storage for nation's energy use. But what what do people not realize about the supply chain of critical materials for energy storage and renewables?
00:06:06
Speaker
I think the biggest thing probably just how complex these supply chains are. So in your typical battery supply chain, you can have over 10,000 suppliers sitting across the network from mine material all the way through to the end battery product.
00:06:24
Speaker
like one Say again, sorry. For like one battery? Yeah. 10,000 suppliers? For one battery company. not one battery, but one battery company. So like a Tesla, Tesla, I think has about 13,000 suppliers in his network.
00:06:41
Speaker
um obviously it's got multiple different batteries it's producing at multiple different times of the of the year but it's whole network that it needs to manage is over 10,000 suppliers so you have a lot of complexity just in kind of logistical complexity that that brings but then on top of that when you look at okay where are these actual raw materials coming from you have you know 15 more than 15 critical raw materials you have cobalt coming from the DRC, you have lithium coming from Chile or maybe Australia, you have nickel coming from Indonesia and all of these different countries is just the starting point of where this raw material is coming from.
00:07:25
Speaker
Then you have the kind of added geopolitical complexity that most of it, about 70% of it, ends up in China and so we're like very dependent on managing the geopolitical complexity of these supply chains for the renewable energy transition to work.
00:07:45
Speaker
Got
00:07:50
Speaker
there's a complex supply chain, to say the least, raw materials from all across the globe, which need to circumnavigate the globe several times to end up as a finished project. um That's a lot of border checks, regulate different regulatory zones, due diligence.
00:08:09
Speaker
and You've got everything from Europe CBAM all the way down to um the prevention of ah forced labour regulations. Would you say you're saying that the only way to manage that is going to be through data, no?
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, right now is's like it's the classic saying of like, you don't you can't manage what you don't know. You can't do anything about what you don't know, right? And most, I would say like the status quo has been in supply chains. Like you obviously know who you're directly buying from. You know, okay i am sent setting this order up with this supplier.
00:08:49
Speaker
But you have no typically no idea what is the 10,000... player network behind that, that decides whether or not this is actually a good or a bad supplier.
00:09:02
Speaker
And that's why they're coming to InVeos. Yes, that is the core of what we've built at InVeos is AI powered system that surfaces this data on the supply chain and enables cost efficient transactions to happen between the supply chain players by surfacing the data that they need for those decisions.
Infios' Founders and Solutions
00:09:24
Speaker
This is complex, but what I love about the team at Infios is this is not your first rodeo. You are not people who said, okay, we can design software. Let's look for an opportunity in supply chain.
00:09:36
Speaker
You have very unique backgrounds, yourself and your co-founder, Tony. Tell me about it. Yeah, for sure So both me and Tony are like self-confessed supply chain nerds is where this all started. um Tony, his one of his most recent startups was in the coffee supply chain, startup called Pat Coffee, which on the outside looks like direct consumer coffee subscription business, but actually behind it, what they built was the tech and operations behind their supply chain back to source.
00:10:05
Speaker
So they knew exactly who their farmers were, were able to pay them about 140% more than fair trade was paying them. And they could then make their supply chain a lot more efficient by cutting out kind of unnecessary steps and and middlemen into their supply chain.
00:10:22
Speaker
And so they scaled that like amazingly. And he has worked in a lot of other supply chain software data place since then. And then on my side, my world of supply chains where it started was on the diamond supply chain side of things. So most recently was building the China expansion for a diamond supply chain startup.
00:10:43
Speaker
But their diamonds is effectively just one mine material. And we started looking at other mine materials, other industries, and one of them was battery mine materials. And so I realized like, okay, whoa, this is like a huge, messy supply chain and such an important supply chain to get right, especially now because we're relatively, yes, we're moving very quickly, but we're still relatively early on in the whole transition we need to make for for clean energy energy and mobility.
00:11:09
Speaker
But then the the other thing that me and Tony realized was that we both speak Chinese and in these supply chains, as I was already saying, like 70% of it sits within China. And so if you really want to build any sort of supply chain data platform, you just can't do it unless you figure out how do we access it and collaborate with Chinese suppliers.
00:11:33
Speaker
And so surfacing that data and the data is one of the key pieces but also building a platform that works in all of these different regions of the world in which these supply chains operate is also a key piece of being able to get that data.
00:11:50
Speaker
Can I put you on the spot and ask what Mandarin is for Carbon-13?
00:11:56
Speaker
Mandarin for Carbon-13? Can you do 13? I can do 13, but I actually don't i don't know if they will have like a special way of and saying what carbon-13 would be. Because like carbon is just tan, but carbon-13 would be carbon-13. But I feel like we could come up with a better... People would probably misunderstand what we actually may mean by that.
00:12:27
Speaker
What we're actually doing. Maybe there's a ah word for the isotope. Yeah. Yeah, I nearly thought about, look, should we do a climate it takes China because it is so important. what would be What would be a difference between the business culture here and the business culture in China?
00:12:50
Speaker
I think if we look at it from ah an energy and mobility angle, like, China started putting EV policies into place in the 2000, like early 2000s, like they are 10, 20 years ahead of realizing that this, you know, the world that we've lived in, both from a climate and an air pollution sense doesn't make sense, but also from an economic sense, like they have been very dependent on parts of the world for fossil fuels that they don't have control over.
00:13:23
Speaker
Whereas like, 10, 20 years ago, what they realized is like, we really need to be able to have much more energy security. And the transition to battery, solar, wind allows us to do that. And so they put very aggressive policies into place, like over 20 years ago, starting to say, let's get the demand up for battery technology And also let's support the industry for the supply.
00:13:53
Speaker
But what they didn't just do is like, okay, let's just support a bunch of battery manufacturers. What they said was like, let's look at this entire supply chain from, you know, the manufacturing back to the midstream manufacturing into the refining of these materials, the processing of the these materials, and even back to mining, which, you know, for things like rare earths, they have huge local, like Chinese based supply.
Challenges in Supply Chain Management
00:14:17
Speaker
But for a lot of the materials, they do not have access in China. So, you know, cobalt, for example, but they have built up these relationships over the last 20 years where they now, I think it's about 80% of cobalt mines are either owned or like part controlled by Chinese companies.
00:14:33
Speaker
And so back to the, like, what are they culturally able to do that we, we haven't yet cracked. I think one is like, being able to really take that like system level approach of like, how do we get this energy transition to work at scale? And then obviously they have like a different political system that means that they can coordinate things at a different level to what we can when we live in like, you know, four year political cycles.
00:15:00
Speaker
And on top of that, they are very, very ambitious about growth. Like there is so much innovation going on inside these companies. I think it's something like,
00:15:12
Speaker
BYD and CATL, which are the two largest battery manufacturers in the world, collectively have close to 50% of global battery manufacturing capacity. Their R&D budget is roughly similar to the whole of Europe's R&D budget combined.
00:15:26
Speaker
So it's just like they're on another planet in terms of like their ambition to be at the forefront of this. Yes, I recommend our listeners, if you've not come across...
00:15:39
Speaker
catl a catalog byd then uh i think that's an area to do your research in um and so would you say where are you seeing the the the market growth for in vr in fios you seeing the customer growth is it in europe or has it actually been china yeah so it's both in in some ways so what we are focused on right now is that The deployment of renewable energy in Europe is the fastest that it's ever been in in history.
00:16:09
Speaker
And these renewable energy developers are primarily buying from China because that's just where the majority of supply is. It's far more cost competitive than most European US alternatives.
00:16:22
Speaker
But as a result of buying from China, they don't really have understanding of what are the risks associated with buying from China. How do I most cost efficiently enable this transaction with these Chinese suppliers?
00:16:36
Speaker
And that's where we come in and effectively supporting with the data that they need in order to do that supplier selection and management process, but also in order to meet the financing requirements that they have from their investors to be able to have the supply chain risk data and management in place, given that if you do have a supply chain disruption,
00:17:00
Speaker
Like you have an example of a ah big energy player in the US that had a supply chain disruption and a couple of its massive energy projects were no longer financially viable because of the bottlenecks or, you know, they have a 200 million euro cost for a year of project delays that they have related to supply chain bottlenecks. And so all of that means that these renewable energy players that are really aggressively trying to scale up are realizing like,
00:17:31
Speaker
supply chains are the biggest cost to these projects and therefore one of the key pieces for these projects actually being successful.
00:17:41
Speaker
um And I think the geopolitical risks, especially with the raw materials, I'm just seeing in startup land a lot more. um You know, as we've already had further instability ah in the DRC, which is where a lot of the cobalt comes from, just in the last couple of weeks, for example, and there's countless other issues.
00:18:01
Speaker
And also what I would say with these really complex supply chains also really struck me is just the delay Something can break down and cause a bottleneck like a year later.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, 100%. And yeah, if it's, you know, seven tiers back in the supply chain, there's no way for you to instantly know about it. It has to go down onto the next one, onto the next one, onto the next one. And then, you know, you ordered something that you thought was going to arrive in 12 months time. And actually they say, no it's going to arrive in 18 months time.
00:18:35
Speaker
And that especially in renewable energy, that's really important because you have time slots where you need to get your project, your energy project plugged into the grid. Otherwise you miss that slot and have to start again.
00:18:46
Speaker
And so if you do have a major delay of say like 12, 24 months, that can have like completely catastrophic impacts on whether or not that project can ever succeed or not. And you, and you've seen that.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um,
00:19:04
Speaker
How, what are, what are, what are the ah solar and wind customers? What are they trying to do to arbitrage the risk or manage the risk?
00:19:19
Speaker
For like battery, solar, wind customers, the first thing they need to understand is like, but what is our risk? Like, you know, right now we're selecting between the suppliers. We have we're not experts in supply chain, supply chain data, geopolitical risk, regulation risk, ESG risk. Like firstly, I just need to understand compared to, you know, these 10 suppliers that i'm trying to select between, how do they compare to each other?
00:19:46
Speaker
And are there any that I like majorly need to, intervene with where they've got red flag risks that for example our project is very likely to be delayed or that supplier is breaking modern slavery legislation which means they're exposed to a 20 million pound fine so that's the first kind of step is like just understanding what are for the suppliers that you're working with how do they perform how does their supply chain perform and then the second step is then like what can you do about it so for example like 75% of global battery production, according to our data is connected with a forced labor and incident at some point in the supply chain. So it's like a hugely pervasive problem, which means that it's very difficult to find those suppliers that we don't find any sort of forced labor risk associated with. And so then the question of like, what can you do about it? Like we still need to deploy renewable energy at scale.
00:20:40
Speaker
And so it's then, okay, identify this risk, but then work with the supplier to address and to mitigate the risk. And so that's where like at Infius, our platform both highlights the performance of the suppliers, but then auto generates actions for the supplier to take with the customer in order to solve any of those low performance areas.
Regulatory and Financial Impacts
00:21:02
Speaker
And so that they can continue to win the contract, work together, but also solve kind of financial risk that's connected to both the customer that's saying, you know, want to do this due diligence, but also to the supplier themselves and for other contracts that the supplier might be winning.
00:21:20
Speaker
So you're using market forces,
00:21:25
Speaker
which could have the effect of significantly reducing forced labour, um And it sounds to me like you're hearing demand from the customers that they want to know. They they actually they don't just want to remain and in in blissful ignorance. They actually want to know because of the ah potential penalties Yeah, yeah. You've got this huge, like, swathe of regulation that's come into place, like US Uyghur Forced Labour Prevention Act, which overnight banned the majority of the world's largest solar manufacturers a couple of years ago, and as of last year put battery into the high-risk category, and we see the implications of that starting to come into effect this year.
00:22:05
Speaker
Then you have in Europe, things like the European battery regulation that mandates you have to have the supply chain data and supply chain risk systems in place. And then as so that's kind of one bucket that's moving things along. But then the other reality is these companies need access to financing in order to set up these projects. And the financing is now coming in with stringent requirements around, you need to have the supply chain data, you need to have these supply chain systems.
00:22:31
Speaker
And then on top of that, you just have, okay, how do we manage the financial performance of this project, which is make sure we're picking suppliers that can deliver on time that aren't going to end up with delays and that cost the project either like money in terms of penalties or money in terms of things aren't being delivered on time, they're losing out on revenue by not being able to plug it into the grid when they expected.
00:22:56
Speaker
So we've got a case of an elected government government as an enacted policy, which drives regulation and a direction of travel, and then markets can then so react to those policies um and actually practically so solve the problem.
00:23:16
Speaker
So that's a chain of all these different sectors of our economies working in tandem ah to hopefully solve some significant problems and make it so everybody wins, ah which I really the sound of.
00:23:30
Speaker
So, you know, OK, things like, OK, that policy has come into play. um We've already said by 2030 we're going to triple the number of batteries or whatever it was.
00:23:43
Speaker
What do you what where do you see energy storage and critical materials supply chain? Where do you see that space being in 2035? I think
00:23:58
Speaker
i think if you look at what's important, what's important is that by 2035, pretty much all Western economies should be majority powered by renewable energy.
00:24:12
Speaker
That means that there's going to be a lot of pressure on the supply chains and the critical materials in the next 10 years. And so by 2035, we have to end up in a world where these supply chains are a lot more mature, they're a lot more predictable, and they're a lot more sustainable if we're going to be able to meet this xbook expected demand for where the world is on renewable energy in 10 years time.
Reflections and Insights on Infios' Growth
00:24:41
Speaker
And, um you know, like like ah let's change tack here a little bit. And I'm curious about your journey with Infios as well. what I'd love to hear what's been a champagne moment where, you know, it was like take the win, but also what's been a squeaky bum moment?
00:24:58
Speaker
I'm sure there's been a hundred. but Yeah, I think this is a challenge, right? It's like, you kind of just get used to riding through all of it. as the The lows you kind of, you end up figuring out like, okay, how do you make sure you don't end up in any major lows? Because that will just kind of like derail your mindset. How do you always give yourself like optionality when things don't exactly go to plan? So, you know, when a customer, like, rather than saying like, we need this one customer to work for our financial plan to work for the year, you're like, okay, how do we make sure we always have a sales pipeline? It means we're never really dependent on like this one customer.
00:25:36
Speaker
um And then, you know, same when you're fundraising, like how do you maintain multiple different options of exactly who you want to fundraise from, how you'll fundraise and so on. And then I would say, likewise, on the the champagne moment, I think it's probably one of the things that we are worst at as founders is actually celebrating when things go to plan because then you're constantly like,
00:25:57
Speaker
hey, we've we've done that. Okay, cool. Let's like move on. And now we have to do this other thing. Or you know you're just about constantly spinning 10 different plates at the same time, which then means that you know yeah you celebrate one win, but in your head, you've got 90% of your brain thinking about all these other things that still need to get done.
00:26:15
Speaker
and So yeah, this is one thing that me and Tony are very conscious of is that we probably need to get a bit better at being like, let's stop and realize how good things things are going. ah I really recommend that.
00:26:28
Speaker
um How has it been co-founding with Tony? How did you guys meet? And yeah, how's it been it being in a co-founding team? Any advice for others other co-founders?
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, so we obviously, part of the reason we're now speaking with you is that we met on Carbon 13, which we were very much in the camp of like,
00:26:50
Speaker
both of us wanted to find the right co-founder over like be super set on an idea and then find co-founders willing to work around that idea. i think the great thing about me and Tony is from a values perspective, we're very much similar to each other.
00:27:10
Speaker
and so were both like, we want to build a very similar kind of startup. Like we want it to be scaling as quickly as possible, have as much impact as possible. build a culture where people love coming to work every day, will work very hard, but will like genuinely enjoy work and also have a life outside of work.
00:27:29
Speaker
And at the same time, we're like this weird mix of personality wise where it can be laid back. when we want to be, but also can be very much like, go, go, go. We need to get all this stuff done. Like this is crunch time.
00:27:43
Speaker
And so in carbon 13, we spent a lot of time before we were like, yes, we're going to co-found just like figuring exactly all of that out. I think we did the 50 founders questions or something like that. It's called. And like, you know,
00:27:56
Speaker
effectively went into like what is the psyche of both of us and are we the right match for each other but then I think it's also like a ah constant thing that we're building on in the sense that like every Monday morning we go for breakfast with each other we like debrief what's the biggest things on our that's been on our plate over the weekend that we haven't been able to like get off of her chest um and kind of talk that through fresh on a Monday morning.
00:28:24
Speaker
And then in day-to-day, very much going backwards and forwards with each other of like, you this is what the plan is. Do we agree this is the right plan? If someone doesn't agree this is the right plan, like having a ah discussion about that and figuring it out and moving on, but kind of all coming from a place of like, we want to build the best startup possible.
Infios' Vision for the Future
00:28:44
Speaker
It's not really about each of us individually caring about winning or losing. It's like, how do we, how do we collectively figure this thing out together? When you say build the best startup possible,
00:28:57
Speaker
What's the mountain that you're going to climb? where what's the ma what's What's the ambition for Infios?
00:29:05
Speaker
Like for Infios, we want to build something that completely changes the energy mobility industry that we that we work in and that we can like look back and say, like, OK, part of the reason the renewable energy transition happened at the speed and scale it did was because we existed that's like the level of ambition that we want to have is like we really feel like we can leave a legacy in the industry we're working in um but also like day to day you're just grinding it out right you're not really we're not really thinking about the scale that's like the kind of step back moment we're just thinking about okay what do we need to do this month what do we need to do for the next six months to make this really work
00:29:47
Speaker
Exactly. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Would you say, last question, and I asked this of of of our founder guests, would you say Infios is a climate tech company?
00:30:01
Speaker
I think it's funny. I think when we were in Carbon 13, we would have said, yeah, 100%. We joined Carbon 13 because like we as founders really care about climate net zero.
00:30:13
Speaker
And so, of course, we're going to build a climate tech company. I think as we build it and as we scale and as we get more and more customers on board and like the energy and and mobility space, what we realize is like on one hand, yes, that's still true. Yes. We like deeply care about climate and fundamentally the more customers we get on board, the more we're accelerating transition to net zero. So it's happening, but also when it comes to like the day to day of how do you sell to customers,
00:30:43
Speaker
And also, how do we fundraise? We need to prove that this like has financial returns. So it has financial returns for our customers where they can avoid like hundreds of millions of pounds of costs on their supply chain and improve their profitability.
00:30:57
Speaker
And it has the same from a financial returns for the startup we're building. you know the The decision to be VC backed startup means that we are choosing the path of like, we are going to prove that financial returns works.
00:31:11
Speaker
And so far that that's working. And so i think it's, yes, we're a climate tech company, but also I think we're a company at the core and climate tech is kind of one one piece of that.
00:31:26
Speaker
And I think especially in a world now that's very polarized around the concept of climate, I think it's even more important that you're thoughtful about how or we're thoughtful about how we position ourselves.
00:31:42
Speaker
and Yeah, like a great example is in the US market, we're much more positioned around supply chain risk from ah geopolitical and a regulation point of view than we are from a kind of ESG human rights point of view. That's much more the conversation with European customers because there's a lot more of the customer demand and regulation demand coming from these ESG associated regulations. And so you kind of just need to be aware of like,
00:32:08
Speaker
in the given circumstance and what you're trying to achieve for that six months, what do you need to build? But also not letting go of the like core mission of ours at the end of the day is, yes, we want to scale and have as much climate impact as possible.
00:32:23
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sarah. um For everybody listening, and please follow Infios' progress as they literally transform a global industry step by step.
00:32:36
Speaker
and And i would encourage anybody who's interested in building a company um or ah looking at ah mentoring or investing in a company, you're very welcome to reach out to the Carbon 13 community. We're a friendly bunch. Sarah can attest to that.
00:32:51
Speaker
and And I think... When we look back on this episode, I think we can say climate takes critical materials, it takes cobort cobalt, ah lithium, just to name two out of 15. It takes 10,000 suppliers, circumnavigating the globe several times. um It takes China um and it's going to take you.
00:33:15
Speaker
So join our community. Thanks for listening. Thanks so much, Sarah.