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Episode 1.09 Ludovic Subran on volatility and market risk
115 Plays5 months ago
Ludovic Subran is the Chief Economist of Allianz SE and Allianz Trade (formerly Euler Hermes). He’s also worked for the World Bank, the United Nations World Food Program, and the French Ministry of Finance. And he’s co-authored three books on markets and economics.
Ludovic talks about why our perception of market volatility has changed from that of previous generations, the complexity of global market information, and the need for greater financial literacy.
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Allianz Life Insurance Company of North America (Allianz) and Allianz Life Financial Services, LLC are not affiliated with our podcast guests or their companies. Any links to the podcast guest's website are being provided as a service to you. Opinions expressed by the podcast guests are not necessarily those of Allianz or its affiliates. Please note that the information and opinions are provided by third parties and sources believed to be reliable, but accuracy and completeness cannot be guaranteed. The information is not intended to be used as the sole basis for financial decisions, nor should it be construed as advice designed to meet the particular needs of an individual’s situation.
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Transcript
Market Volatility and Client Decisions
00:00:01
Speaker
Market volatility is like the weather. Everyone talks about it, but is anyone really doing anything about it? Well, our guest today has some thoughts. He's going to help us make some sense of market volatility and how you can help clients make smart decisions amid all this uncertainty.
Podcast Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:19
Speaker
Welcome to Rebuilding Retirement, navigating a new reality with your clients. I'm Travis Walker. We're back with a new episode in this podcast series from Allianz Life Insurance Company of North America.
00:00:30
Speaker
With me today is someone who also shares a connection to Allianz. Ludovic Sebran is the chief economist for a parent company, Allianz SE, that's based in Germany. Ludovic has also worked for the World Bank, the United Nations World Food Program, and the French Ministry of Finance.
Impact of Fast Information on Volatility
00:00:50
Speaker
Ludovic and I had a wide-ranging conversation about volatility and market risk, including why our perception of market volatility has changed from that of previous generations, the complexity of global market information and the need for greater financial literacy, and the need to stay humble in the face of so many unknowns but agile in how we respond to them. So let's get into it. Here's my interview with Ludovic Subran.
00:01:18
Speaker
Thank you for joining us. We're going to jump right in with both feet here and talk about market volatility. um As part of my day job, I actually go around to a lot of conferences and inevitably they'll have this this market update and some expert will be trotted out there. And we talk a lot about market volatility these days, but it's always been present in the market. In what way is today's volatility different than what previous generations have experienced?
00:01:48
Speaker
Well, you know, I think it's um it now at least volatility is very related to geopolitical risk. So I think for whatever reason, we suffer all from infobesity. So we get the information much faster than before. So that creates a form of noise, especially when it is related to politician politicians' words and pledges. So that's definitely a new form of volatility that was not there maybe 10 or 20 years ago.
00:02:13
Speaker
And there is also a new form of volatility, which is coming from beyond our access to information, our ah thirst for information. I think people want to be informed. They fear FOMO, the fear of missing out. And so as a result, they tend to come to to confuse getting informed and getting the right information for decision making.
00:02:35
Speaker
So I think there is an endogenous bias. you know we We're getting over too much information, but we want even more information.
Understanding Bias in Market Perceptions
00:02:44
Speaker
And we lack maybe the critical thinking part that is needed to triage the good, the bad, and the ugly, the needed and the not needed in this information. And all of that adds to the anticipation, expectation, um perception loops that are often self-fulfilling prophecy or volatility.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that people have a thirst where they actually want information. And it's been my experience sometimes that they don't want information as much as they want to affirmation. They want whatever belief they have to kind of be repeated back to them. But that's not necessarily how ah market updates should be presented to people and um when thinking about that, sometimes I'll leave a conference and if I'm there for three days, by the time I leave, I'm like, has the market shifted? Is what this person told me still relevant and how will people react? So um it's it's always interesting when you find yourself in that room and and someone's giving an update that people maybe aren't willing to receive. Yeah, confirmation bias is everywhere. you know and ah And I think confirmation, anchor bias, you know you know all of this behavioral economics ah ah literature um that popped up in the past 20 years, ah you know herd behavior on markets, the fact that people tend to flock together
00:04:03
Speaker
not necessarily based on actual fundamentals. ah The fact that indeed you want echo chambers, because this is reassuring to you. If you want to hear about a certain electoral outcome, or a certain move on the SP500, you're going to go for what you want to hear because you have biases everywhere. This is certainly something that I think a lot of sophisticated investors are getting into more. And this is also why it's always good to talk to financial advisors, because they're a bit of your sounding board, you know, and they tend to be dependent and, you know, give you a different perspective on things
Post-COVID Market Trends and Protectionism
00:04:32
Speaker
that you've heard. And you can discuss an exchange, which I think is the best way to get to collective intelligence and to you know zooming out on what you've been hearing or reading on your social media, which is very curated content to what you want to listen and hear and read. yeah No, that's that's ah that's a good take. And I think that's a good way to define it. I know that you're frequently giving market commentary in the news for Barron's, Bloomberg, CNBC. And there you give insights into what happened that day in the market.
00:05:03
Speaker
For this conversation, I'd like to take a step back for a more macro view. What are some of the main trends you are seeing in the global markets right now and um that you're seeing persisting for the next year or even beyond? Look, there there is clearly a before and after COVID. I think this is very important um because it was a one in a hundred year type of event. And the way we handled that event, especially the reactions by policymakers, be it central banks and ministries of finance and secretaries of secretaries around the world has been so phenomenal, right? Because everybody wanted to avoid another global financial crisis. And so I think this has dislocated markets a lot. For example, even if there are a lot of bad news on the political side, people tend to think that central banks are going to save the day. ah So there is a put out there that you know it's going to be up and up and up for risky assets.
00:05:56
Speaker
um There is also a change now, which is very strong, which is um going back to demographics or long-term trends, ah because we discovered again that these critical dependencies we have on trade, ah the aging and the transition the demographic transition,
00:06:11
Speaker
um The need to ah think a bit differently about access to resources, be it iron ore or people or ah capital, all of that has been completely revealed by COVID and the fact that we stopped the world for a few months. And it has been even worse since then because of the war in Ukraine and so forth. So for me, this is a major trend for investors around the world. there is this sentiment that protectionism, interventionism, look at the return of industrial policies and so forth. This is our new normal.
00:06:43
Speaker
And so this has an impact on are um companies that tend to be very global versus companies that are local. That has an impact on valuation of the defense sector or of critical sectors of the economy. ah The AI you know bubble that is impressive. you know This is because people need a solution to the demographic transition, and AI is the solution. So that tend to have some some effects. that That's a big bucket, first big bucket.
00:07:13
Speaker
The second big bucket that I think is a major trend for financial markets is definitely what we just discussed, this access to information, the Robin Hood generation. I think people understand that the welfare state is a bit asphyxiated, and they understand
Financial Literacy and Young Investors
00:07:30
Speaker
that they need to be an activation of the savings to finance transitions, the climate transitions, the digital transition. So there is a form of um education and financial literacy trend out there with a lot more young people that want to be in
00:07:48
Speaker
ah in preparing for their retirement, want to be in, in making their savings work for them instead of just having to work to save money, you know? And this is new. This is something that, you know, when I moved to the US 15 years ago, I remember there were books on financial and wealth planning that we would never find in Europe because financial literacy would be so low. Now there is something about, okay, you can actually use a bit of your savings and activate them and spend time.
00:08:15
Speaker
trying to better plan for, you know, accidents in life or for just longevity risks. And I i think this is also a trend that has pushed up ah financial markets a lot. And then the last thing macro wise that I think is fascinating is inflation, of course.
00:08:29
Speaker
you know Who would have thought we would hit again 10% inflation? and That would yield to such an abrupt increase of interest rate by central banks. That would yield to such a remunerating long-term yields. you know Nobody would have thought that we would get 5% of the 10-year US you know back after what had happened. So that, I think, is also a very interesting transition because inflation is not going away anytime soon because of policies, but because also of supply-side risks.
00:08:55
Speaker
ah There's going to be less of what we saw in the past few years because that was exceptional. But this is something that we need to get into understanding better because that has a range of outcomes ah across asset classes and across um ah investment strategies. Gotcha. um In thinking about the people that have their their feet on the street, right the actual financial professionals and what they're going to do about it, um if we were to think about you know the type of advice you'd have for taking that macro view of the market fluctuation and how we can intelligently consume the news about market volitility ah volatility, again, we touched on biases a little bit, but if you're the person, again, with
Balancing Risks and Opportunities
00:09:34
Speaker
your feet on the street, um as a financial professional, what can you
00:09:38
Speaker
do about that to to give good information. The macro view is about understanding market cycles, ah economic phases, historical contexts, and focusing on the long-term creditworthiness of companies or the long-term economic indicators. So you have to follow GDP growth, unemployment, inflation rates, corporate earnings, geopolitical events. So you have to be informed without getting too much noise. yeah um If you're a good financial advisor, you also need to really showcase the value of diversification to spread risks across assets, across sectors, across geographies, and staying disciplined by avoiding emotional decisions right and and showing the patience of compounding effects.
00:10:24
Speaker
of interest rates and returns. right And this is a big macro understanding of of the trends. right And um you know if I think also about something that is often important for financial advisors to understand, the macro view is understanding correlations. Often, this butterfly effect, something that happens on semiconductor in Taiwan can push up the price of Nvidia in less than a bit of a heart. you know ah So, you have to understand this type of wider correlation structures, geopolitics rather than national politics, ah macro dependencies rather than you know your county's GDP numbers or employment rates, because they tend you know the and financial cycles have always been very correlated and intricated
00:11:11
Speaker
But now this correlation and this financial cycle is even more reactive than before. And that's something to take into account because people are after understanding complexities and breaking it down in chewable amounts. And so as a financial advisor, that's your job to be pedagogical, but not trying to be too ah simplistic or naive, just trying to showcase the complexities and the interrelationships so that people can understand how their decisions could be, um,
00:11:41
Speaker
affected by things that are sometimes very far from them when they're thinking about their strategies. I don't know that people are always necessarily thinking globally, and so the financial advisor may have to do that for you. um When I talk about the aforementioned you know market expert that comes into the room at a conference, the room tends to get a little colder, a little darker because there there seems to be this underlying fear, if you will,
00:12:06
Speaker
If you're in the shoes of a financial professional, how can you talk about that and take all that into consideration, the long-term financial planning, and talk about understanding that risk, but not necessarily ah spread fear or have worry kind of permeating throughout the room? It's it's very hard. you know i mean There are tons of papers to show that you shouldn't be a day trader for a living right because you're going to lose money, so you have to be patient.
00:12:34
Speaker
there's this brazilian study that shows that less than three percent of people that actually do day training earned the minimum wage so so you have to be patient that's the first thing don't overreact try to you know try to persist and be try to have the right method you know in inside you always have twenty twenty on your vision right what matters is to understand what
Financial Literacy: Europe vs. US
00:12:55
Speaker
gets into your decision making.
00:12:57
Speaker
so that you can correct so that that the same situation you adapt you adopt a different behavior and then you have different impact. so I think it's about keeping you cool and keeping your know poise in every situation instead of overreacting because the news flow is is ah your worst enemy. right and You try to surf on trends that are not trends and you end up stuck with very bad decisions for um based on sentiments that was very short-term. So that's the job of the financial advisor is to be this beacon of hope and patience. The second thing is, um I think a good financial advisor can give you one opportunity for every risk. I know there is this hackneyed stuff about the the Chinese character for crisis is the same than opportunity. We all seen that. I do think that when it comes to market, it's very important. If someone talks to you about risk,
00:13:50
Speaker
um you need to push them and say, okay, how do you think about that as an opportunity? Because there must be, you know, markets are a form of communicating basis. They're, they're a fantastic ah equalizer. So if something goes down, something has to go up. Yeah, it's very rare, you know, everything going down that happened in 2022, the nowhere to high type of moments, and that happens every 35 years.
00:14:17
Speaker
So that's not something that happens very often, right? Usually, there is always something that goes up. If the bond goes up, the equity markets go down and so forth. Or if one sector is up, I mean, if there is sector rotation, something else is down. There is not a big withdrawal. So there is always, you know, risk, ah you know, to be matched with the opportunity. And the last thing that I would say also is making sure that you um go back to the risk appetite of your clients.
00:14:44
Speaker
you know, de define, spend time defining this risk appetite. Often we have, you know, chef ready, you know, strategies with certain horizons, certain explanation. There are tons of, you know, discussions that are happening just to gauge the risk appetite of the clients through very long questionnaires and all the regulatory aspects of it. But I think risk appetite can change very fast. ah People tend to adjust their risk appetite to many things happening in their personal life.
00:15:13
Speaker
And so, I think it's the affinity that you create with your customer is your best answer to make sure that you can, ah alongside your customer, co-design the strategy that is the best because their risk appetite must have been changed by a personal event that happened to them or something they've read and that has had lasting impact on them. um so So, I think the best way to manage this fear control type of balance is to stay as close as possible to the market appetite or the risk appetite of your client at time T, which is often a a latent variable. You don't observe it. Your client will not tell you, I feel very risk averse today. you know So you have to find ways to define that or to understand it. It's like observing a black hole. You never see the black hole, but you see it through its impact around the stars, and you know be you know to the on the stars around the black hole. I think it's the same with the risk appetite or the risk tolerance of your customers.
00:16:06
Speaker
That makes for, I would say, the best financial advisors. No, I like that. i um you know You mentioned it just briefly. You said it ah once in there about risk tolerance, which is really the phrase we kind of use here in the States. But I like ah risk appetite. um Tolerance feels heavy. Appetite seems almost delectable. and so I'm French, so it's all about food.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, right? Maybe even changing the word is something that'll make people feel a little better about it. We we talked a little bit about um financial literacy, and I know that there's an opportunity for FinProse to help their clients have a better understanding of finances. I'm going to rattle off a little bit of a statistic here, so bear with me. I know that Allianz Research did a study last year about financial literacy, and it found that fewer Americans have high or even average financial literacy compared to other countries and that it's costing them thousands each year. so The study found that low financial literacy costs the average household in the US around just a smidge over $5,000 every year. How can financial professionals help their clients improve their financial literacy? you know the Again, first the key is understanding risks. Financial literacy clients tend to avoid risks at any cost.
00:17:21
Speaker
ah The financial illiterate clients tend to avoid risk at any cost, and and that's you know the very well-known phenomenon of ah loss aversion. ah So they are condemned to lower returns. So good financial professionals help their their clients assess risk and maximize risk-bearing capacity, risk tolerance, risk appetite, et cetera. They will be set back in market markets, and advisors are there to avoid knee-jerk reactions. You need to point them to the right things to read,
00:17:50
Speaker
ah You need to be a form of a curator of good information, helping them triage from the good and the bad information. you know It's great to have an account on X, but X is a big eco-chamber, so how do you get a different perspective on um what what you know are the trends in wealth management? You need to offer optionality. I think this is very important. Good financial literacy starts by being able to make informed choices and understand why you make the choice.
00:18:17
Speaker
um Because there are always options and the options can be different because of odds of occurrence, because of risk return profiles, um because of your own echo for that strategy, because thematically you like it or you don't like it. So your financial literacy is a mix of all of that, right? and And of course, the horizon, the temporality.
00:18:36
Speaker
um It's very hard to be risk neutral, especially intertemporally. So you have to remember that you have bias. And your bias may be hidden somewhere in your ah in your brain because you want to buy a house or you want to leave something to your kids or because you want to ah ah pay this surgery or whatnot. So understanding this makes you more financially literate than people that don't see what goes into the investment function or the the decision function.
Globalization and Diversification
00:19:05
Speaker
For me that's that's it and then of course this job of of creating options and of creating um access to ah curated information is also very important for financial literacy.
00:19:15
Speaker
Gotcha. Well, we talked about market volatility. And having heard you, I feel like I'm now an expert um so long as I repeat back everything you just said. But I'd like to ah switch here and talk a little bit about globalization. You're you're based in Germany, is my understanding. um Many of our listeners are here in the United States. Now, global financial markets have become increasingly intertwined. ah For example, more and more people hold international stocks in their portfolios.
00:19:44
Speaker
um Can you help us understand economic globalization and what led us to this point? I mean, what led us to this point is because we are confident that making trade and not war is more interesting. yeah I think there is this idea that globalization is the ultimate ah provider of prosperity. I know some people would disagree. Financial globalization in particular um is ah is a fantastic tool to, um um you know,
00:20:13
Speaker
finance, digital innovations, health innovation, just think about the the the COVID vaccine. It's about making sure that there is a ah form of solutions,
00:20:29
Speaker
solutions of of bridging the gap on infrastructure for people ah you know in Latin America or in Africa, all the way to ah making sure that oh Americans make good money on their retirement portfolio. That's what financial proposition brought. It did bring also a lot of volatility. So that's the downside. The downside is it it brought bubbles and crises and um and somehow it also brought a lot more risks and halves and halves not. So a lot more heterogeneity or a lot more Darwinism.
00:21:08
Speaker
And that's what people are now discovering. And you know for financial professionals, diversification is essential for anything long-term across markets, across regions. This is how you build something that is stronger than something that is very domestically um related. So yes, it did bring the 2008 global financial crisis. So at least you know there was contagion effect. You think about COVID more recently, but it's also Globalization, especially finance globalization, is a wonderful weapon to circumvent and moments that are beats downturns everywhere um to to make sure that we um somehow, especially looking ahead, we have the right technological advancements. ah We have the right opportunities.
00:21:56
Speaker
And no matter where you sit, no matter where you were born, no matter you know if you were born in a good or a bad family, I think globalization is part of the American dream somehow. We're talking about global trends and you know what financial professionals should be aware of when advising clients on that on those retirement strategies and we touched on the literacy. If you could, what what are some literacy lessons here if we we're talking about a financial professional state side that they could learn from other countries? What I can tell you that in Europe, um we have a huge focus on retirement here because as you know, we have the um the welfare states
00:22:42
Speaker
is a big retirement planner agent. So we all contribute a lot on our ah salary to something that is called Pillar One, ah that is a way to ah mutualize or pool risks and benefits.
Retirement Planning: Europe vs. US
00:22:57
Speaker
um ah Companies and company benefits are something that I think American companies are fighting with a lot more right now because it's a huge um reason for talent attractivity.
00:23:11
Speaker
attractiveness. So that's something that when I look at you know European countries, um complementary pensions, health benefits, and it's been huge progress in the US from the 401k tax ah incentives all the way to the Obamacare, all the way to um you know much more sophisticated ah and and and much more agency on retirement planning. But I think um in Europe, there's always been since Bismarck, so that's the end of the 19th century, this focus on making sure people don't fall into all that poverty.
00:23:44
Speaker
And so so somehow there's this stark reminder that you have to start planning very early. I earned my first salary when I was 16. My dad was a factory worker, so I went to help at the factory for a months during the summer. And I started to see the difference between my growth salary and my net salary. And I was like, what is happening here? And I started, you know, chipping in to my retirement when I was 16 without even knowing about it, you know? And that that creates a form of ownership of, okay, there is something that I'm putting aside somehow is not for me for real, because it was it is, you know, the the retirement system in Europe is that whatever you're contributing today is for people who are currently in retirement. That's why now the system is a bit in a difficult situation because there will be fewer people working and the dependency ratios are going up. But there is this sense of ownership that, you know, risks, life risks, old age, unemployment, health, occupational health, are somehow something you need to take care on ah beyond paying your taxes.
00:24:44
Speaker
through a specific pot of money you set aside. And so that's that's that's a form of literacy spreading ah mandatory. So some people would argue that's not the best choices you make earlier on in your life. It's a good mindset. Yeah, yeah I mean, when I was 16, I think I took my check and bought the latest Michael Jordan tennis shoes. So it's a little different. I wasn't so concerned about- But you were cool. You were cool. Oh, the coolest. Yeah, no, no doubt. um The future, we'll worry about that later. So you mentioned it ever so briefly, but I want to touch on it because it is something big when we're talking about ah globalization and how things impact people across the bond and how there's ripple effects, obviously. And that is the COVID-19 pandemic. Obviously, that was a major shock worldwide. What lessons about financial risk management ah should we take away from that kind of experience?
Lessons from the Pandemic
00:25:42
Speaker
You know, so many, right? yeah I mean, it's it's something that doesn't happen very often, thanks God. um You know, he taught us um first that the importance of having a robust emergency fund cannot be overstated. You know, having savings helped you go through, um you know, as an individual, as a business, having savings were was um essential, pivotal to you weathering the economic downturn.
00:26:10
Speaker
Second, diversification, diversification, diversification. Those who had diversified you know investments across geography were less exposed to severe impacts because there was the sequentiality in the way ah regions of the world were affected by COVID. Last, the need for flexible financial planning and the ability to quickly adapt to unforeseen circumstances, so agility. So buffer,
00:26:35
Speaker
uh, diversification and, and agility, right. And if I think about other worldwide financial, you know, events, the 2008 global financial crisis, which underscored the dangers of excessive leverage and poor risk management, uh, I think somehow, uh, you know, COVID brought in the interconnection of risks. So don't look only at financial risks. Look at the fact that risk will be interconnected, uh, health and financial and policy.
00:27:05
Speaker
you know, tomorrow, climate and cybersecurity and financial. So that's also something we need to keep in mind when I talked about interconnections and correlations.
Extreme Weather and Financial Strategies
00:27:16
Speaker
Don't underestimate the cumulative aspects of risks. Switching gears just a little bit, something that I think we don't talk about enough is it's maybe going to sound silly, but the weather. Allianz Life recently did a study that found most Americans were either weather affecting their long-term financial success. Again, I don't think we talk about it enough. In fact, 56% say they have some anxiety about rising costs, financial losses, or even health effects from extreme weather ah events or natural disasters. so How do you think about how extreme weather can affect long-term financial strategies, and how should we be thinking about the risk?
00:28:01
Speaker
um it's ah It's a good question. right I think it's no surprise that many Americans are worried about economic losses from natural catastrophes because they are everywhere. especially because the US is disaster prone. you know so And to be fair, we need to stay humble. We don't know much about the economics the the climate economic stuff. So we don't know much how ah stocks or bonds or spreads are going to react to climate events and to policies, to to weather climate events, pun intended. And so as a consequence, we need to stay agile and to be very gradual.
00:28:40
Speaker
and to get keep getting the information and the empirical evidence of what works and what doesn't work. And thinking about the topic, we were talking about you know acting local locally, thinking globally, but I know even within these United States, you tend to have different attitudes towards it. um I grew up in Los Angeles, and the biggest natural disaster we could have was probably an earthquake. um I now live in Minneapolis, and I'm you know, no earthquake is going to happen that I know of. I'm not down in Florida. I'm not really thinking about a hurricane or anything. And so sometimes when you're in you know your bubble, you don't necessarily you know think about these impacts in your own state, let alone across the globe.
Aligning Investments with Personal Values
00:29:18
Speaker
But it sounds like
00:29:19
Speaker
a financial professional can get a leg up if they were to at least look into these sorts of things, understand the risk about extreme weather and be prepared to have that conversation with their clients so that they're showing that they're um thinking beyond just what's right in front of them. So I'm just going to ask a couple of questions here at the end to get a little bit of insight into how you view retirement and and what that's looked like for you.
00:29:45
Speaker
ah something we ask all of our guests. ah So I'll dive in. What's something you wish you would have known about retirement when you were first started working? um Something I wish I would have known. um I think the main ah thing for me is understanding ah inflation hedges.
00:30:09
Speaker
ah you know that that hu you know inflation When I started working, inflation was above 2%. It was below 3%. But back then, I would not necessarily think but automatically about transferring my money from my deposit account to something that would just save me from losing money just by the fact of stay leaving money on my de deposit account. So activating my savings at least to match inflation hedge.
00:30:36
Speaker
and then thinking beyond that, you know, trying to understand the compound negative effect of inflation, just like you can understand the compound compound positive effect of interest rates of yields, you know, trying to understand the compound negative effect of inflation. yeah Okay. And then what have you learned through your work that you wish everyone knew about preparing for a retirement? ah Stick to what you like.
00:30:59
Speaker
and what you understand, of course. But I think it's very important to have a portfolio that resembles who you are. If you like family business, if you like a topic, if you like a subject, there is something deep in you and your investment portfolio should resemble who you are. Because then you can talk about it is you know and you can you can exchange on it ah with people because you believe into something. There is a strong conviction. There is something that resonates with who you are.
Engaging with Ludovic's Content
00:31:26
Speaker
You need something, you know, expert thinking and advice need to meet something that resonates with you.
00:31:32
Speaker
And I think that's that's something that everybody should should look into what makes them tick. Yeah, I think that's actually what I've been finding a lot with this next generation. That is their sentiment and how they feel about that. So if you are a financial professional and you're you're working with people that are a little younger, just know a lot of what they invest in and what they think about um really is something that means something to them. um This has been great for listeners who have enjoyed today's conversation, and that is everyone. Where can they find you online? They can subscribe to Ludonomics.
00:32:08
Speaker
ah My newsletter, either on LinkedIn, Substack, they can follow us or me on X on LinkedIn. And of course, they should go to aliens.com and read our publications. And if they have questions, they can always email. I'm i'm happy to exchange with all of our ah partners um in the US. So don't don't hesitate.
00:32:34
Speaker
So what we learn from Ludovic is that as markets become more interconnected across the globe, financial professionals will need to include risk management in their clients' long-term financial strategies. And that for thin pros and clients alike, greater financial literacy is key to addressing market volatility, economic uncertainty, even climate uncertainty.
00:32:54
Speaker
That was Ludovic Subrad. If you want to hear more about how retirements are changing and how to navigate this new reality with your clients, check out our previous episodes with guests like Sally Krawcheck, CEO and co-founder of Ellevest, and Suzanne Syracuse, former CEO and publisher of Investment News. In fact, why not subscribe on the Apple Podcast or Spotify app so you don't miss any episodes of Rebuilding Retirement. I'm Travis Walker. See you next time.