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Top 10 Composite Arm Talents in the NFL
24 Plays1 year ago
PD and Padhi discuss the QBs with the most gifted arms in the NFL.
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Transcript
Introduction to the "Passing Downs" Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
What's going on everybody welcome back again to another episode of the passing down's podcast I'm your host Rahul potty and I'm here with my clothes PD PD say what's up? What's up? And today we're back with our little off-season series that we started pretty recently. If you haven't checked it out, out we recently made a top 10 anticipation list of quarterbacks in the NFL. And we're going to continue doing this with different various traits we feel are very inherent and important to the quarterback position. Obviously
Evaluating Arm Talent: Criteria and Traits
00:00:42
Speaker
with this being a quarterback podcast, we have plenty of different kind of opinions on
00:00:48
Speaker
these players and specific traits and how we rank them there. And in some traits, you'll have some of the better quarterbacks in the league at the top. And with some, you have a guy who's very specialized in that category who ends up leading the league. And in a second, you'll see what we think about today's topic. And that is armed talent. So in a second, I'll let PD kind of discuss our, ah I'd say categories and obligations, how we rank these guys essentially.
00:01:18
Speaker
or in his eyes how we look at arm talent. And then I'll give my thoughts and then we can jump right into the list. I'll start off with honorable mentions. We have a couple of different categories in which We rank these almost in like tiers and then we'll just give you our 10 to one rundown and explain why we have each of these guys there. But with that being said, PD, I'll let you get started talking about our kind of decisions and how we rank these guys. Yeah. So
Notable Quarterbacks: Past and Present Arm Talents
00:01:46
Speaker
the main criteria for this is four main subcategories that I think matter a lot for our talent.
00:01:51
Speaker
um Velocity is the one that's obvious and I think is one of the bigger drivers on this list. ah Max distance, for me it was a little bit less of a driver, but it still counts for something. Being able to throw the ball really deep is a signal of arm talent, even though I think functionally, ah in terms of functional arm talent, being able to throw it deep doesn't really show it show up as much. um The most functional thing that separates it from regular arm talent for me was ball control. um And a subcomponent of that being touch and the ability to weight the football drop it in between defenders. That was something that I found very important. And then ah another small component being flexibility. um Some guys have the ability to bend their arm and throw it around defenders. This is most functional on screens, RPOs, short passes where you have to work it
00:02:37
Speaker
around linebackers, um around defensive linemen, stuff like that is a small sub-component that we're looking at. But mainly the biggest ones that are driving my list are velocity and ball control, because those are the stuff that applies on almost every throw. um And to kind of illustrate the difference between functional arm talent and raw arm talent, I'm going to use the example of Deshaun Watson. So in 2020, Deshaun Watson, I think we both agree,
00:03:03
Speaker
would have been very high up on this list for us. absolutely His ball control was excellent. His velocity and ability to push the ball way down the field were both incredible. um His touch, his flexibility, all incredible.
00:03:16
Speaker
um flexibility especially but as he stepped away from the game and lost a little bit of feel and especially his touch and ball control you see a lot of spray misses that you don't see on the 2020 tape quite as much where he was one of the more accurate quarterbacks in the league um that type of stuff is the separator between What Deshaun Watson is right now is an arm talent and what he was back in 2020 with the Texans. He will not be making our list, even though we both do think that he could still put some velocity on the ball. um But his ball control and his ability to ah fit passes in between and multiple defenders, um which is a critical skill for evaluating arm talent for both of us. um That's a reason why someone like him wouldn't be showing up and why would be lower on some of the names that we'll see maybe in our honorable mentions.
00:04:04
Speaker
where ball control and the ability to arc it over defenders, those skills lie behind their velocity and max distance maybe for some of these guys in our honorable mentions. And with that being said, we could you could start it off with your first honorable mention, Pauli. Yeah, and real quick before we get into the list, I love that you how you broke that down, because I think typically when looking at the term arm talent, people assume, and I think most of the time when you're talking about scouts, or like even watching TV talk about arm talent, it's mainly just talking about those traits of max distance or velocity. I feel like people more focus on those when they're discussing at arm talent, but I also agree it's very important to really hone in on the functionality of it, see exactly how these arms are used on the field in terms field in terms of touch, flexibility, how they're able to get those off, how quick they're able to make those releases. All of that comes in arm talent and all of that
00:05:02
Speaker
ah it as a whole makes up this list and as I'll talk about some of these are honorable mentions a couple of these guys are guys with much much bigger arms than people higher up on the list but the way in which they use it just isn't up to par which is why they don't make the list and with that being said I'll get started I'll jump straight into my last honorable mention and this guy I think easily could be on the list and not to spoil too much but I think he will be on PD's list here but for me because he's someone who we haven't seen in the league yet I can't put him in there but as an honorable mention I have Kayla Williams
00:05:41
Speaker
I think from what we saw in his college tape, his arm talents incredible and not only the max distance and velocity as we see with traditional quarterbacks. But even in terms of functionality, we saw the flexibility in all the playmaking types of plays he'd make outside of the pocket. All different types of releases that he would throw, whether he was running towards the sideline or even in the pocket. He was very, very malleable with the way through the football.
00:06:08
Speaker
Uh, you also saw the touch in plenty of situations. I think, feel like his touch is incredible as well. Uh, I think overall he will be a top 10 arm talent in the league next year, but obviously with the variance of how he's going to play as a rookie, we just don't know. And for me, he can be in there based off simply college tape, but I can see the argument for the other side. If we're just purely going off his arm and not taking the into consideration the fact that he hasn't played.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, so as probably mentioned, I was obviously higher on Caleb. He came in at number six for me. um I'm extremely high on Caleb's ability ah to use his arm. He has like he checks every single box that I've mentioned, his velocity, his max distance, um his ball control, and especially the flexibility. His flexibility is ridiculous, one of the best I've seen from a college prospect, um maybe outside of like ah like a Patrick Mahomes or and even like a Bryce Young, because he's like so small.
00:07:07
Speaker
but the ability to put torque on the football from every different angle from inside or outside the pocket to push it way down the field. He never loses control of the football while he's on the run or in the pocket. um It's just an incredible amount of what I'm telling. The only thing that's keeping me back from pushing him higher is Similar to what you said, I'm not sure how he'll play um to start off the year. And that mainly comes from how reading out the speed of the game will relate to his ball control. um If he sees things a little bit late, could he try to force passes in there at a little bit higher speed than he's more comfortable with and therefore lose control of the ball? That's kind of my thought press thought process. But his toolbox for from an arm talent perspective is so good, he could rank somewhere in the top three.
00:07:54
Speaker
by the time we're doing this list next year for me yeah absolutely and I agree with a lot of your points there I just simply can't get there because he hasn't played but I absolutely agree and I think also with rookie quarterbacks a lot of the time it can be like confident spaced I so think we saw oh Bryce Young someone who was last year's number one pick lose a lot of what he was best at simply because we just didn't think he was in the right headspace mentally didn't have the right team around him. I think Caleb won't struggle as much with the roster around him, given how the Bears have developed this team. But in in terms of having rookie struggles, it can certainly happen to him. And moving on to
Honorable Mentions and Rankings Introduction
00:08:36
Speaker
another quarterback who has been struggling as of recent, and for that reason didn't end up making my list and slid down to the honorable mentions, but is someone who I think consistently for a couple of years now it would have made this list.
00:08:50
Speaker
barring injuries, and that is Kyler Murray. Kyler Murray, I think, is an underrated arm talent. Someone with his small kind of stature, you typically wouldn't expect him to generate the amount of velocity and be able to drive the football as far as he can. And I feel like he does it with a little bit of relative ease, too, you see. I think a lot of smaller quarterbacks, like your Brock Purdes, your Tuwas, I feel like when they are forced to throw it downfield,
00:09:17
Speaker
It feels like they're putting a lot of their body into it, where Kyler Murray, I think his arm is just so strong that it seems effortless. you We've seen him be able to throw the ball on the run consistently, and that kind of shows the flexibility. I think if he was even more so able to work on the playmaking side of his game, that would make him an even more elite of a quarterback. But we see him do it time to time to show that flexibility.
00:09:44
Speaker
And I think with his accuracy, we see how elite the ball control and even touches for a guy like him. It kind of needs to be at that level for him to be an NFL quarterback. And he has that absolutely on point. I think ah with a little bit more help, this guy definitely could be creeping up towards the bottom of my top 10. But for now, he's right here.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yeah, I get what you're saying. um For me, like the ball control, since he's had the the layoff due to the injuries, it's not been the same as the 2021 seasons. He was also in my honorable mentions. But yeah, in seasons past, he would have made this list. He is an incredible talent from an armed perspective, um kind of has the ability to put it wherever he wants down the field, um put some serious gas on the football outside the numbers.
00:10:31
Speaker
um very flexible arm as well because of that reduced stature um so yeah I understand what you're saying in terms of um the arm talent and he just needs one good season and I think he'll be right back up on this list um and transitioning right into another guy for me that needs just one good season and he'll be right back on this list. This is Aaron Rodgers. So I think that in terms of velocity max distance, he's still um probably quite high on this list. I think he has lost a little bit of his fastball um and still can put it down the field quite well um because he can put a lot of air under the football. But the one thing that's losing a little bit for me is the flexibility as he's gotten older. um That part is
00:11:17
Speaker
diminishing as he can't contort his body in the same way anymore. And certainly I'm scared that the time off will affect the ball control. um Like I said with Caleb Williams, like reading the speed of the game, will it cause him to lose control of the football more as he tries to push the ball a little bit faster? that That's kind of where my mind is at um with regards to Rodgers. But of course,
Top 10 Arm Talents: In-depth Analysis
00:11:38
Speaker
as he's shown in the past, he has a ton of potential ah' to climb this list. And maybe if he's he's playing again next year and has a good season, we can consider him for this list.
00:11:47
Speaker
yes unfortunately for me though Aaron Rodgers does not make my list and typically I'm the guy here who is a little bit higher on what Rodgers has left to give us at this point in his career but in terms of arm talent I think it's a bit too withered away for me to even put him in the honorable mentions I may agree with max distance that if he puts a little bit more air on it he can kind of get the ball where he used to but in terms of velocity I disagree I think he has Massively declined there and I think that's one of the main things that's gone over the last couple of years with him He used to be just so quick and able to get rid of the ball so fast with the zip with that Like kind of patented quick release of him and his and I feel like we don't see that as much I feel like he's forced to sit back a little bit now and wait for plays to develop because he's not able to get those quick plays off anymore and
00:12:42
Speaker
I think the flexibility also has massively diminished kind of use like you said at this age I mean it's it's expected but his arm just seems to look a little bit stiff to me and isn't the kind of malleable very flexible arm we saw in earlier Rogers who was able to kind of get rid of the ball in any release in kinda any sort of window he was able to get rid of the ball I just don't see that out of Rogers anymore and I think some things like touch and ball control are still there a little bit with him but as his confidence and feel for the game has diminished with him being out so long I think that will also naturally get a little bit worse next year and overall with this being a project projection list for next year I just don't see him
00:13:28
Speaker
really creeping it up into the top 15 arm talents next year with how good some of these other guys are. And speaking of another young and upcoming talent who will I think dethrone a guy like Rogers in this area, that's Will Levis. Will Levis someone I think traditionally scouts and football fans would look at as someone with quote on quote arm talent. i mean He's a big, strong guy, tall, huge shoulders. And because of that, he's able to drive the ball, probably one of the furthest in the league, probably one of the higher velocities in the league for a quarterback. Very, very strong man. And I think, in general, he would be higher on this list if it wasn't for his functionality, something he massively needs to work on. And I don't know how much it will improve as the year goes on. And that will depend where he ends up on this list.
00:14:21
Speaker
is such like touch stuff like touch ball control where he is very erratic and inconsistent we see him i think consistently miss balls and a lot of that has to do with i feel like him being unable to control that but velocity a little bit of ball control issue he's just simply not able to take a little bit off the ball and place it in the right spots for his receivers, or maybe even take a little bit off it to make it easier for them to catch and go on the run. I feel like he could do a great job of that. And if he was able to be more effective at that and kind of adapt to his receivers, he absolutely could make this top 10. And he's young enough to where later in his career, I think he will end up doing that because the ceiling and potential absolutely is there. There's very few people in this league.
00:15:09
Speaker
who have the amount of velocity and arm power, you could say, that a guy like Will Levis has. And I could see him end up being like a guy like Stafford, who maybe never fully develops that touch and control to later in his career, but does enough to where he can be a high-volume guy, even if it leads to a a good amount of interceptions. I think that's where we can see Levis. But right now, he's just an honorable mention for me.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, really touching on the important points there, body with the the touch and the ball control is the biggest element that's keeping me from leaving him off the list or putting him on the list. But yeah, I mean, his velocity is max distance are very, very strong. They are probably worth a shout somewhere here, but just I am not sure where the ball control and flexibility comes without outlier development. So he was probably further down for me.
00:16:04
Speaker
But yeah, based on the velocity and max distance, he probably deserves a shout here as well for me. um And then the last guy who is a young quarterback who will be in my honorable mentions for me is is Drake May. um In a similar vein to Caleb Williams has incredible flexibility, incredible velocity and max distance. The one thing that separated him from Caleb Williams for me was the ball control.
00:16:27
Speaker
um You can see some spray misses from Drake Bay once in a while um because he loses control of the football occasionally. I think some of this is because of poor footwork um and some of it is because he doesn't always get um the optimal rotation. He sometimes tends to over-rotate.
00:16:44
Speaker
um and things like that, but some of that is kind of a part of velocity and max distance to me. um He has the potential to climb this list if he can work on some of those things mechanically, but as a composite arm talent, ah functionally right now, I can't quite put him on the list, but I can see flashes and signs of incredible velocity and incredible max distance. It's just um sharpening those tools of low control flexibility and just making sure he gets everything on every throw. And though I agree that I think Drake Macon is a great arm talent prospect, one of the better ones we've seen at a college in recent years, and someone who I do think in the next few years can creep up into this list, for me it's going to take a lot for rookies to even be an honorable mention.
00:17:34
Speaker
And I think Drake May simply hasn't shown enough in college with being consistent. I think the potential is very, very clearly there. The flexibility is out of this world. The kind of velocity and being able to throw the ball deep absolutely is there with May. But I think the inconsistencies with ball control that we've seen already at a college level where I'd argue it should be easier to be able to kind of stay consistent with where you're throwing the ball when you have a lot less to think about less less anticipating to do and you kind of just have to
00:18:07
Speaker
get the ball to the right spot we already have seen drake may with a games here and there where we see a lot of misses or periods here and there where we see a lot of misses. not It's not consistent enough for me yet to put him in this sort of situation, but I think if we're revisiting this list mid-season or maybe even next offseason, definitely could be a different consideration kind of conversation with May.
00:18:33
Speaker
and I'll let that lead into a rounding off my list with my last honorable mention and I don't think we talked about this guy so I'm curious to see whether you have this guy on your list at or not PD and that is Baker Mayfield for me rounding off my honorable mentions. I think after last year he absolutely deserves a mention in this situation. I think coming out of college we did already know he was a guy who had some arm talent but because of his stature he was never gonna be as someone that's seen as towards the top of the league and he's someone I don't really think is really gonna creep up into this top 10 for me but he's someone who I think showed enough last year to where he was getting a considerable amount of chunk plays throwing the ball downfield we saw him time and time again go vertical and do it with a lot of precision he was quite accurate I feel like
00:19:29
Speaker
He did a great job of putting enough touch on the balls, throwing it in different ways to different receivers, because you're going to throw the ball differently to a guy like Mike Evans than you do it to a Chris Godwin. And I think with the way he has a very a firm grip of the ball and has a great touch with the football, he's able to get it to these various different guys in the way they like it. And I feel like that's why he was so successful on that Buccaneers offense. And to me, that's why he's in this honorable mentions list.
00:20:00
Speaker
I think last season showed that he still has that high level arm talent and definitely could use utilize it well in the right system. yeah he would probably be the honorable mention for my honorable mentions list. um He's probably somewhere like 17 to 23 for me in arm talent. He's pretty solid. and um I think that his his velocity and max distance are pretty solid. um The thing that concerns me a little bit is that just the one year with like positive ball control last year and his touch and flexibility, especially the flexibility are not too wowing for me. he's like
00:20:41
Speaker
pretty stationary thrower I think um and the biggest thing for me is that the the only one year ah sample size of his arm being more functional again um kind of scares me off a little bit but um I could definitely see him being in my honorable mentions next year or um if he has a fantastic season maybe even in the top 10 and then transitioning into my last honorable mention because I don't think he was in yours, but for me, Geno Smith would make my honorable mention. So he has incredible velocity, max distance. um The flexibility is kind of there, but he doesn't really make use of it too much. um And I would say he is a good touch thrower on stuff outside the numbers, like dropping it in the bucket on a go ball. But the stuff over the middle, he really does prefer to use a lot of velocity, I would say.
00:21:32
Speaker
um And his ball control um is quite good, I would say, and it leads him to good accuracy. But there are some games where he does lose control of the football. um So that's worth thinking about. I do think that if someone had Gino on their list, I would be kind of fine with it. But for me, there's 10 names and the league is like loaded with arm talents right now. So it was a little bit tough to get him on there.
00:21:58
Speaker
yeah and i think that's the most important part there when we go into our top 10 you'll see that there's plenty of great arm talents in this league and that's why some of these guys are off and just to really touch on baker real quick i think with him i i can see the perspective of me being a bit early on him with him only having a year of time right now playing at this level but I think with him he's similar to a guy like I think Kyler in the situation right now where he's not obviously not at the ah hasn't shown the high end of arm talent that Kyler has but I think he was in a position where he had shown high levels of arm talent and because of injuries or poor situation we hadn't seen it for a while and last year he was almost able to redeem himself
00:22:44
Speaker
And I think Kyler, if he was to have a good season, would be able to creep higher up in the honorable mentions or back onto the list because of a good season. And that's where I see Baker. So I think it's kind of a culmination of prior seasons along with this most recent one. And with Gino, I think for for me, he just doesn't end up being on this list because of how spadic sporadic he is with some aspects of arm talent. I think touch is something that like you said he does have a good use of it on those goal balls on those fade routes kind of using it outside the numbers but he's so sporadic using it almost anywhere else on the field i feel like he's very a very power heavy passer almost anywhere else kind of trying to power through those slants those in routes even going over the top he's just trying to bullet it through a lot of the time and i feel like his arm strength and velocity simply isn't good enough
00:23:41
Speaker
for him to be that much of a power passer for me to put him in this arm talent list. Cause I think these other guys have similar, similar if not better levels of max distance and power, but better functionality alongside it than a guy like Geno Smith. All right. So that'll wrap up our honorable mention. So let's get into the list. So who do you have at number 10, buddy?
00:24:06
Speaker
Number 10 and I'm not sure if you have him near here or a little bit higher up and I think what's limiting him here is the max velocity and max distance and that is CJ Stroud CJ Stroud obviously taking this league by storm last year showing incredible arm talent with how he was able to drive the football downfield so many times in such a high octane high-powered Texans offense and And he was doing it in so many different ways. It wasn't kind of a one-trick pony offense. We saw so many different kind of concepts and schemes that Sloak brought out to have different different types of routes and different types of combinations going downfield. And Stroud was able to hit all of them. He was able to place the ball in the right spot on the money almost every time. and
00:24:59
Speaker
I think just where I think CJ Stroud's lax is a little bit of the power. He doesn't have the higher end power that we'll see some of these other really, really powerhouse quarterbacks we'll talk about in a second. Some of those guys have just a natural power and drive to the football that CJ Stroud doesn't have. I don't think we'll be seeing him fit into balls into super tight windows underneath or be able to be on the run and kind of make a cross body power throw that we'll see some of these other guys do. But in terms of the fundamentals and in terms of traditional passing, there isn't many quarterbacks that get better with CJ Stroud and the arm talent he has. Yeah, so Stroud was a little bit higher for me. He was at eight. um I was telling you before the podcast that I was thinking that Stroud would be quite high for me. um And as I kind of got into the number of names that deserve to be up here. It got a little bit tougher to keep him up there.
00:25:56
Speaker
But man, Stroud is so impressive for me. I wanted to index a little bit more on the functionality components. So the velocity and the ball control and touch were stuff that stood out. And for Stroud, the touch especially is incredible. His ability to layer throws over the middle of the field and outside the numbers.
00:26:15
Speaker
um with his touch is really impressive. um he That's how he's able to generate consistent positive results on the deeper difficulty throws. The velocity, like you said, is not towards the top of the league, but it's still good enough for me to say he's average or above average in that regard as well. His max distance is honestly impressive to me. um For someone who doesn't throw with so much gas, he still gets it pretty deep down the field. You can see, like the touchdown he threw to Niko Collins, he's doing that off not quite great protection. He gets hit shortly afterwards. um Yeah, that that part is is quite impressive. um I think his ball control is a little bit sneaky, um overstated by some. um He kind of does miss a few deep balls sometimes, like very deep down the field.
00:27:03
Speaker
um when he has to put a ton of power on it. um And I think that his flexibility is okay. He's able to get those off in traffic, um but it's not something that would put him towards the top of the list. Like we'll see for the guy who's in the top tier for me. I'm sure you can guess who that is, who has like outlier flexibility, which kind of allows him to generate certain throws that are in inhuman basically. um But Stroud doesn't have that. So a lot of work being done here,
00:27:31
Speaker
in terms of his touch and being able to layer throws. But I think that is so functional in terms of arm talent that he probably stays a little bit higher than where you have him. Yeah, and I think you'll see that as a common theme on this list. The way I view arm talent is similar to PD, but I skew a little bit more for that.
00:27:54
Speaker
are max distance and velocity side of things and that's not necessarily to take away from CJ Stroud because as you guys may know from listening to other episodes I'm very high on CJ Stroud and I love the fact that he is able to make up for it a little bit of a lack of natural ability in terms of arm power with how precise he is with his throws and more importantly the touch he's able to layer all his passes with that really separates him from a lot of these other elite quarterbacks I think that's amazing. Just the way I view arm talent, I feel like the term more represents the bigger, stronger arms who are also able to use it well because at the end of the day, functionality is still very important. And I still very, very heavily skewed for that.
00:28:41
Speaker
But i the the way I look at it is a little bit more on the arm power side of things. And I think this next guy
Debating the Top Arm Talent: Mahomes vs. Allen
00:28:49
Speaker
very much represents that too. And I know this guy doesn't end up making your list, but at number nine for me, I have Jalen Hurts. And the reason I do have Jalen Hurts is because ah largely because of how I view arm talent. Jalen Hurts is someone who's very strong, very strong, powerful legs. And because of that, he's able to drive the football to pretty much anywhere on the field very strong and firm with his passes i'd say one of the better spirals in the league he's able to ah put it in a lot of different places and he's able to do it through a lot of different releases because he's able to throw on the run he's able to throw kind of the back of his foot and i think where ah he skews out and towards the bottom of this arm talent list is obviously
00:29:38
Speaker
the ball control and functionality side of things. He's not the most accurate quarterback in the league, and even more so, he does tend to have streaks of passes that aren't going in the right spot, can be high, low, inaccurate in various different ways. And for that reason, he definitely ends up being lower on the list. But because he's able to drive the football so well, so downfield, and makeups make so many chunk plays, do it as a playmaker as well.
00:30:09
Speaker
And I think he has one of the more flexible arms in the league as well. I think because he's so good at so many aspects of arm talent and makes up for maybe lacking in some other aspects like a touch for example, but I can see the other side too, which I guess pre PD will bring up here. So I actually think he has, I think his touch and ball control are good. um I do think that you make a good point about him being able to drive the football down the field. His deep ball is the biggest thing that would um make me consider him for something like this in terms of arm talent. But honestly, when watching him back, I didn't find myself impressed by the velocity that he can generate. um I think it's okay.
00:30:51
Speaker
to where he can serviceably drive the ball outside the numbers but it's not like a really powerful arm to where you can really feel it zipping in there. um I think he's very smart though about how he uses his arm consistently using ball control and touch to drive strong accuracy, I think. um But the lack of like that high-end velocity, he kind of has like a ah second gear, but he doesn't have like a third gear in terms of the velocity he puts on the football. And I do agree that he does have some flexibility to him, but his inability to turn that flexibility into function, like consistently using that, is a little bit of an annoyance for me. So he kind of didn't make my list or my honorable mentions,
00:31:32
Speaker
But I could understand if he like came out and made some mechanical tweaks and learned to maximize his velocity a little bit more, that he would be a little bit higher for me.
00:31:44
Speaker
All right, so for me my next quarterback in on the list at number nine was Jordan Love And I think you're in love made your list in a similar tier, but just talk about him really quickly um Incredible incredible flexibility like one of the most elastic arms of the league puts a ton of velocity on the football Is able to drive it outside the numbers down the field on the run, whatever you want um Just very very impressive arm talent from that perspective back to distance as well is very good. The one component that I was a little concerned about, um and I think we've touched on this a little bit, but Love hit like an extreme heater last year in terms of the accuracy and the ball control. I'm not sure I want to buy that at face value. um So if he comes out somewhere in between what he was at the beginning of the year, at the end of the year, um in terms of ball control and not having so many spray misses, um that's kind of what I'm expecting for him rather than
00:32:41
Speaker
um What he showed at the end of the year, but if he comes out with what he showed at the end of the year as his ball control I think he would rank pretty high on this list when we're redoing it next year like towards the top It it is really incredible what he's able to do from those other perspectives of velocity max distance and especially the flexibility But the ball control and what he showed at the beginning of the year is concerning enough to where I have him a little lower on the list than you I think yeah and with the positives you have there i absolutely agree i actually ended up having jordan love as seven on my list and very very nearly moved him uh... tear up into the next year and i think a common theme with my list here is i am having a little bit of recency bias here and more importantly skewing heavily for what i think will end up being where they are next year or how i expect they play next year and I think from what we saw with Jordan Love towards the end of last year we saw a big jump and I think the level of development that I saw out of Jordan Love there is something that I can't assume is a heater and I almost have to expect that out of him now or something closer to that level because he changed so much as a player because when you look at who he was earlier on in the year and saw
00:34:00
Speaker
the touch and precision he was playing with later on in the year you would never expect that to be the same player and it's such a big jump that I think Jordan Love has simply improved and that is what I expect out of him now and for all the reasons that you said he absolutely is high on this list for me at seven His arm is just so, so flexible. We saw in that Cowboys game, especially him able to deliver the football in so many different ways and so many different weird situations and still get it so far downfield. He is one of those powerhouse quarterbacks that we have a very few of those on this list that his arm is just naturally just big and strong. And no matter where he's throwing it, no matter if he's kind of just flicking it away,
00:34:45
Speaker
the ball just goes far and you just don't know what he what it is. It's almost a superhuman arm kind of talent that Jordan Love has. And we're slowly starting to see the functionality get better and better. And as that happens, he's going to creep up more and more on this list. And for me, he's crept up to seven at this moment. All right. So I mentioned that CJ Stroud was number eight on my list. Who's number eight for you, Paddy?
00:35:13
Speaker
So number eight is also a very similar kind of high velocity, high distance kind of guy. And I think this guy is going to end up being a little bit higher on your list. Absolutely would have been higher, much higher on my list a few years ago. But unfortunately due to age and a little bit of injuries, he's a little bit lower. At eight on my list is Matthew Stafford. And Matthew Stafford historically throughout his career, one of the better arm talents in the league pretty much And anytime he's been a starting quarterback, I think some people, I don't think I'd go as far to say it, but I think some people may even rank him as one of the better arm talents in NFL history because of that Super Bowl win. But even now at this point in his career, definitely one of the better arm talents in the league.
00:36:03
Speaker
one of the more high velocity quarterbacks that we've seen in a minute and still probably one of the higher velocity quarterbacks in this league can fit the ball into windows that very few guys in the league can also do and the max distance is still there as well he's able to drive doubt the ball downfield with ease I just think at this point in his career we've seen the elbow injury get to him a bit he's had so shoulder injuries throughout his career and various parts of his bodies are injured I just feel that last year we saw a little bit of diminished velocity we saw a little bit of diminished max distance and I think it's gonna continue on onto next year slowly we're gonna see a deterioration of that skills which is natural at this age of 36-37 years old I think the flexibility is already has started to go quite a bit last year we did see the
00:36:59
Speaker
patented Matthew Stafford's sidearm nearly as much. And I feel like the weird arm angles that we expect out of Stafford are slowly starting to go. I think the touch is always going to be a little bit sporadic with Matthew Stafford, who has always been a little bit of inconsistent kind of guy with his accuracy. And I think with that kind of little bit of sporadicness that we can always expect out of Matthew Stafford, though he's slowly getting that out of his game.
00:37:29
Speaker
but that combined with the diminishing ah velocity is gonna put me, me put him at number eight and still in this very good category. But he's still ah an elite, has always been an elite arm talent. And it shows that he can still be at this high on the list at this age. Yeah, for me, so he was number five. I believe, I think that there's some diminishment, but I think the starting point that he's dropping from, I would probably say,
00:37:58
Speaker
like number two or number three in the league when he was at his best in maybe 2020, 2021, like and an incredibly powerful arm still. um Incredible flexibility. just He can almost throw underhand. It's kind of ridiculous. And I don't think the flexibility is diminished, but maybe the functional flexibility has a little bit, there has declined a little bit. um The max distance is something that I do think has gone down a little bit. Back in the day, he used to be able to chuck that deep ball like it was none of anybody's business but now he kind of sticks in that intermediate to deep range quite a lot when he's attacking down the field um yeah and obviously like you mentioned um the ball control is probably the biggest thing that's holding me back from keeping him higher where his velocity and max distance would probably place him higher if that was just the composite that we were looking at but the ball control the tendency to kind of lose control of the football at a
00:38:54
Speaker
kind of decent clip um that's the thing that's keeping me from pushing him higher but um I do think that there's some room in here to project regression for Matthew Stafford because he is so beat up as a quarterback missed some time last year as well just I'm not sure that with the consistency with which he takes contact that he can stay upright for a long term but I don't know we'll see how the season goes for him alright so you mentioned that Jordan Love was at seven for you um Number seven for me, um he's a little bit, higher just a touch higher for you, um but that's Lamar Jackson for me. Lamar Jackson, incredible, incredible arm talent. um And especially from the flexibility standpoint, I think he would probably rank um somewhere in the top three for me in terms of how flexible his arm is. His ability to use arm angles, just throw around defenders, whether it's at the line of scrimmage, on the run,
00:39:48
Speaker
working around linebackers in the RPO game, it is incredible. um it's just It just comes like on command for him. He just just does it. It's like a whip, like his arm is. um And to combine that with and extremely good velocity, extremely good max distance, you would have a case for ah higher up on the list. But of course, um like a couple of the guys that we've mentioned,
00:40:12
Speaker
Uh, just recently, uh, his ball control and touch kind of t- er, not his touch. His ball control kind of tends to wax and win. I think his touch is, is pretty st- pretty strong. Um, at this point, he's able to layer through over the enemy defenders, but the ball thing on his ball is missing more than well, and he really can be missing steeples. Um, technically on his head sometimes. Yo?
00:40:37
Speaker
Uh... Hello? Yo, did you lag out? Hello?
00:40:44
Speaker
Yo?
00:40:50
Speaker
Okay, where did I stop? Yeah, I think my computer froze, so where did I stop? Yo, yo, you like cut out for me. And you just came back. Okay, I'll just uh... Okay, I'll just start over. You were like in the middle of where Lamar Jackson fell. Okay, okay. I don't know, I forget the word you stopped.
00:41:15
Speaker
Wait, you're like cutting out again. Fuck. I know the last question was Lamar for you.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were you you had just for where you were for me. You were just talking about Lamar Jackson's touch. You talked about all his other aspects of his game and then you're talking about touch and then you cut out.
00:41:39
Speaker
All right, so I know that your number seven was Jordan Love. Number seven for me is going to be Lamar Jackson. Lamar, incredible flexibility. um One of the most flexible arms, I would say, honestly, in league history. And he would rank among the top three if I had to rank purely based on flexibility. ah His ability to throw a sidearm, whether whether it's RPOs, working it around defensive linemen, or on the run where he's working it around linebackers or corners, um it just kind of happens on command. It's like he's using a whip and he just can deploy it at any time. It's just incredible.
00:42:09
Speaker
well Lamar can do. um He has amazing velocity as well. and is able to push it down the field in terms of back's distance pretty well. I also like his touch, especially on intermediate throws. He can drop a ball in between defenders pretty well. The one area that lags behind for me is the ball control. He can kind of lose control of the football when he's pushing it really deep down the field. um And also on kind of easier throws, he tends to miss them because he's losing control of the football, whether that be through wasted motion or because of his footwork, which is ah like a minor component of maximizing velocity to me.
00:42:43
Speaker
um And mean he kind of tends to lose control of the football on those easier throws. So I would like to see him clean that up a little bit, but a fantastic arm talent nonetheless. And I think that any further improvements would move him higher on the list.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah, as you mentioned at the start, Jordan Love was my 7, and that actually rounded off our very good category, at least my very good category. The next sort of category is the elite tier, and for me, Lamar Jackson, being one spot higher, had to sneak into kind of the elite tier of quarterbacks.
00:43:31
Speaker
In terms of arm talent and it's for many of the regions you mentioned PD It's just he's just so flexible with his arm and the way he's able to deliver the football in so many different ways it almost feels like backyard football when you're playing with Lamar Jackson and He's able to just make something happen out of nothing, whether he's in the pocket, outside of the pocket. He's able to find someone in a little bit of space, and whatever little angle he has, whatever little space he needs, he's able to just get rid of the ball and get it there. And because he's so strong and i'm just naturally able to drive the football downfield so far,
00:44:12
Speaker
and throw the football so hard that he's able to almost get away with it. You could say with throwing the ball at so many weird angles and so many weird ways, throwing the ball across the body or throwing the ball in certain windows that you would advise most quarterbacks not to but because Lamar Jackson just able to drill it in there with like very few people in the league you can trust Lamar to do it and yes I agree with you the ball control simply isn't there like a lot of other quarterbacks the reason Lamar still ends up being elite for me is because his game really isn't revolving around the touch or being able to layer the football into certain spots uh unfortunately that will I think kind of cap how far he can get as a quarterback
00:44:58
Speaker
I think at a certain point to get into the elite or all-time tier as an overall quarterback you do need to end up having some form of touch and I think a lot of these other quarterbacks will end up bypassing Lamar who as he ages and as his athleticism goes down and as he's not as reliant on this arm talent. But I think the reason why Lamar is where he is today and why he's won two MVPs and been so dominant, put up such dominant seasons is because of that arm talent.
00:45:30
Speaker
he like very few people can create plays with this weirdly strong arm of his that very few other people can do that it has to be in the lead tier for me. When we see him run around and kind of might magically make ah plays appear out of thin air there's like only a couple of guys in this league that can do that and the only other guys on the league in the league that I can say can make plays like that are in the all-time list for me and there's certain things that separates Lamar from those guys which i'll discuss later but Lamar is just such a great player in that aspect in that backyard football sort of style that he has to be in the elite tier for me at six all right so Lamar was my seven i mentioned that Caleb was my six and Matthew Stafford was my five
00:46:23
Speaker
So who's going to be your number five? playdd ah My number five, and I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned for you yet because I know he's going to be on your list. So I'm interested to see where he's going to be. But for me, my number five is Anthony Richardson. And Anthony Richardson, I think, is one of the best young arm talents in the league by far, one of the best arm talents that we've ever seen. And unfortunately,
00:46:50
Speaker
because of his injuries we weren't really able to see it much but in terms of traits I mean there's very few like it if you're talking about max distance and max velocity he absolutely has it I don't know very many quarterbacks in NFL history who can throw the ball as hard and strong as an Anthony Richardson. With that huge, strong build of his two, he's able to just drill and drive the football so far. ah Very, very good in that aspect. Maybe even number one in the league for that, bar or maybe be number two, barring one guy. And in terms of flexibility, I mean, we saw it even in the limited NFL tape and even in the college tape.
00:47:33
Speaker
He's able to throw the ball kind of at any time. He's able to throw it at any angle. There could literally be defensive linemen grabbing him and he's still able to get rid of the football and throw it somewhere. He's just so strong and powerful that he's able to get around guys and like make get get rid of the football at ease, you could say. I think where what brings him down and it's similar to guys like Lamar Jackson or a Matthew Stafford.
00:48:02
Speaker
and I think he's probably lower lowest on the scale at this point in his career with it, and that is the ball control. His ball control is very, very erratic. I don't think it's as close to anyone else on this list that we've even talked about at this point in his career at least, but he's just such a high-end arm power talent and velocity talent that He has to be here in this elite tier and I think because he's so raw and young we will see in the upcoming years him develop in those aspects and then it's going to be a scary sight for the rest of the league.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah, so he was number four for me. um So right around the same range, I think there's one quarterback that's going to be a decent chunk lower than where you have him coming up. But yeah, Richardson, like you said, just ridiculous, ridiculous power. I would say it is one or two or maybe three in terms of the velocity that he can put on the football. It is unbelievable.
00:49:03
Speaker
um What he can do in that regard The max distance in a similar vein he can do that through contact which is the better indicator of max distance for me um It's it's crazy what he can do and in the same vein The flexibility and when you consider the size that he has his flexibility is unbelievably impressive um just a guy that we're both very very high on in terms of arm talent yup and as as as a player as well just generally as mostly a function of that art talent like you said the touch the touch is honestly good i would say um but the ball control is where it like really lags because his footwork his motion um not quite synced up consistently and um kind of loses control of football sometimes but an incredible talent nonetheless um and yeah i i have him at number four so
00:49:54
Speaker
Who would be your number four client? So my number four. Actually, who was your number five? Was it Matthew Stafford? Yeah, number five was Matthew Stafford. OK. My number four here, and I'm also interested to see where you have this guy, is Trevor Lawrence. And I think Trevor Lawrence, I think, was always going to be on this list. One of the best arm talents we've seen come out of college in, like, I'd say the last five or so years, one of the better prospects.
00:50:20
Speaker
And even now what we've seen out of him in the NFL, just absolutely incredible, incredible flexibility for someone of his size. Something we haven't really seen much of for someone that tall, being able to bend the way he does, deliver in different arm angles the way he does.
00:50:40
Speaker
very very impressive to see and because of his huge tall stature he's able to throw the ball very far and very strong I think more importantly the velocity for me with Trevor Lawrence maybe his max distance isn't as far as some of these other powerhouse quarterbacks but I think in terms of velocity in that short intermediate range just drilling the ball on a line drive over the middle of the field even kinda delivering it on an out out route outside the numbers. There's very few that can do it like Trevor Lawrence there. I also think his touch is out of the world this world. I think on those kind of fade sort of routes, go routes, just being able to drop the ball in in the right spot, whether it's in between zones or right past the arms of a defender. I don't think there's very many guys that can do it like Trevor Lawrence with that. I also love his ball control has always been a little bit
00:51:38
Speaker
ah Someone who struggled a little bit with accuracy, but I think recently he's been improving on his ball control Enough so to where he's going to be this high on my list And I think last season maybe would drop some people on him as a whole I think he did struggle a little bit last year with all of those aspects but I think when he has the right system around him all those traits are there for him as a quarterback and He's very impressive for me So this was the one that I was alluding to where we disagreed quite a bit. So Trevor finished number 10 on my list and I agreed with a good, good portion of what you were saying with the velocity and the max distance. But the thing is I found myself a little bit.
00:52:21
Speaker
hesitant to give him a lot of credit for ball control touch and especially the flexibility so I think that in terms of I'll start with the flexibility because I think this one was a little bit of a tricky one to to think about but I think that his preference to throw from regular platforms and his inability or lack of a desire to throw from platform's ways to throw around people um is a little bit sneaky underplayed. I think that he wants to be a pastor who plays from pocket from his own two feet and being able to throw around defenders is a skill that he possesses, but not something he wants to do with frequency. So that functionality lost a little bit for me. And the biggest thing was
00:53:01
Speaker
the ball control and I thought I think his touch is decent but not quite out of this world like you think so that that's probably an explanation for the gap I think he definitely does prefer to use his canon to really drive the football um and especially on throws outside of the numbers. um And that's probably one of the biggest things for me is that his his game being so isolated towards outside the numbers type of stuff, especially last year, 10th gears itself more towards velocity and max distance. um And the rare moments where
00:53:36
Speaker
he does throw something over the middle, it's tended to kind of be from that velocity and max distance type thing. Now he does rank towards the top of the league, maybe where you ranked him for me in terms of that composite of max velocity and distance, but throughout the year I saw, and I think that this is something we can agree upon, the low end games for Trevor are games where he really does lose control of the football. He just kind of he just kind of um goes haywire, starts missing throws,
00:54:04
Speaker
um I think I've mentioned this with Dak Prescott, who's not going to make our list, but there's some games where the quarterback just doesn't really have it together mechanically. um And that was a reason that Trevor kind of dropped for me. um The lack of mechanical consistency to really maximize his um um I think this is one of the bigger cases of a difference in functional ability and actual ability. um I think Richardson might have been ah close, but I think that I might even be higher on the velocity and max distance that he can put on than you. So um this was the one case where I thought that that distinction between functional arm talent and basic arm talent more indexed towards velocity and max distance came into play.
00:54:48
Speaker
Yeah. And real quick, I'd like to touch on this because I have a feeling that the next few guys were going to have more similar opinions with. But I'm actually really I was first surprised by Anthony Richardson because as someone skewing more for a ball control, I was surprised you would have him higher than me, which should go to show you guys how incredible of an athlete he is. But more going into Trevor Lawrence.
00:55:12
Speaker
I think this kind of shows how strongly I am skewing towards traditional arm talent and more the ability of arm velocity and arm distance, arm power, those sort of sides to things but I also think and maybe even this is hypocritical of me because I was skewing for recency for a couple of these other guys but maybe where I give Trevor Lawrence the benefit of the doubt is because of the team he had last year I think because of the lack of space creators and people who could create separation that he had last year and how focused they were on trying to drill the ball to Calvin Ridley
00:55:52
Speaker
Even though he was very, or the kind of the way in which they used him outside the numbers in a very weird way. I think they almost forced Trevor Lawrence in that system to stop using his touch more so, and stop going over the middle of the field.
00:56:09
Speaker
for because I'm not really sure what the logic was behind it but it seemed to be more a systematic thing and it really didn't work for Jacksonville. That's why the whole thing fell apart and I think they're going to move away from it moving into next year picking up a guy like or maybe even not picking up a guy like Brian Thomas Jr. But what we saw out of Trevor Lawrence the previous year, and I think a lot of even last year in the first half, when they were kind of using a lot of crossing sort of routes, getting Evan Ingram in space, getting Christian Kirk in space, that sort of era of the Jaguars offense, we saw Trevor Lawrence use a lot more of his touch, use a lot more of his ability to get it out to his receivers in space in the short and intermediate range.
00:56:54
Speaker
And I think when he is used in that way, he can be one of the better quarterbacks in the league. And that's because of his arm talent. That's because he's able to not only get those deep passes because of his max velocity, but also he has that touch in his arsenal to be able to make the short game work. And to me, I think, yeah, maybe his flexibility isn't there for like a guy compared to like a Kyler Murray.
00:57:21
Speaker
But for a guy who is so big and tall as he is, being able to still move at a certain and ah move your arm at a certain level, similar to a lot of guys smaller than you, to me is very flexible for someone as tall as him. And for that reason, he ends up being high on my list despite what happened last season. But I absolutely could be wrong on him and it could be just a bias towards Trevor Lawrence a little bit. But I do believe.
00:57:50
Speaker
in his abilities in terms of arm talent. Alright, so that leaves the final three. These names are kind of obvious, but at number three for both of us, it's going to be Justin Herbert. I'll let you take the floor on this one because you're the big Justin Herbert guy on here. I am the Justin Herbert guy and I'm very happy that you did not disrespect him by putting him any lower on this list because he doesn't really deserve to be any lower on this list.
00:58:16
Speaker
absolutely a top three arm talent in this league and I think in a lot of other eras maybe a little bit of a weaker era he could have been number one but there are some of these guys who are going to be the top two for me are in the all-time tier Justin Herbert rounds off the elite tier here at number three And with Justin Herbert, I think the primary focus for his arm talent is obviously going to be the max distance and velocity. He is your traditional big, strong, tall powerhouse quarterback that can drive the ball far, that can throw it very strong, and he really can put the football anywhere on the field you want, whether it's far, whether it's short. He's able to deliver the ball there and deliver it there fast.
00:59:02
Speaker
I think his flexibility is also very good. I think even more so than a guy like Trevor Lawrence, someone for his size, he's very, very flexible, can deliver the ball in a lot of arm angles. I think we've seen it with this Chargers offense. It's been really tested because of how bad his offensive line is. He's had to constantly be shuffling around the pocket, moving around, throwing off different platforms, and he's consistently able to do it. We saw it various times throughout last year, him doing it on the run, him doing it yeah even running forward away from pressure. ah He's very ah very good at kind of thinking on his feet, or you could say thinking with his arm and just
00:59:48
Speaker
putting it in different windows where i think he's not goingnna match these top two guys and which may even limit him for from getting any hi on this list ever in his career i think is going to be his high end levels of touch I think where Justin Herbert struggles the most is being able to take a little bit off the football and a little bit zip less, use less of his velocity in order to get the balls into different spots. There are different types of throws because I think the ball control is there. He's one of the more accurate quarterbacks in the league. I think he's consistently able to get the ball to his receivers in space and make things happen.
01:00:30
Speaker
uh... unfortunately the only place where i think he lacks a little bit is that uh... touch aspect and i think that's really the major flautist game that holds him back in overall in general to yes so for me just never was number three as well and despite the fact that I'm indexing so much on the functional stuff rather than the traditional stuff. His functional arm talent is so good based on the velocity, especially the velocity and the max distance that I couldn't put him any lower. um The velocity is some of the greatest I've ever seen bar none.
01:01:05
Speaker
um It looks like a diet version of Dan Marino when he's throwing the football. It is unbelievable the amount of gas that he can put on the football. He can throw it really deep down the field, has extremely good ball control. um The flexibility is not quite where I'd like it to be and that probably holds him back from ah punching with these top two where I think he can honestly throw the ball with as much or more gas than My number one guy at least and I'm pretty confident he can throw with as much or more gas than my number two guy but I would agree but the the
01:01:39
Speaker
The ball control, extremely good, but the touch, like you said, and I think you phrased it perfectly, where um sometimes you just need to take a little bit of gas off the football, and that part is just something that he hasn't been able to master yet, and I think he will push into this all-time tier if he's able to master that component as well, but an incredible, incredible arm talent that I think very much deserves to be very high up on this list. All right, so...
01:02:03
Speaker
it's time for the reveal who's number one who's number two um and in typical yeah and i think this is gonna be the last spot where we maybe disagree but we do have the same top two obviously uh who is your your number two so in typical podcast fashion um for this podcast um patrick mohomes is gonna be my number two and he's gonna be your number one um this one was yeah very close um obviously as a functional talent guy um you would think that i would have landed up with mahomes at number one but the the issue okay maybe maybe i should talk about alan first because he's number two for you and you can transition right there the thing is with josh alan
01:02:44
Speaker
As he has number one, number two type velocity in the league and I would say number one max distance in the league, um he's also refined his ball control touch and flexibility so so much since the early days that I would say those traits also go towards the top of the league. um The ball control he has he does have games where he's just flinging it out there and he's missing by yards and stuff like that but at this point I think his touch and his ability to layer throws over the top is towards the top of the league and the flexibility component
01:03:15
Speaker
as he's continued to refine that from what he had from the start, which was very good. But now it looks ridiculous when he's able to throw sidearm on the run, work it around defenders, easily just power it around defensive linemen in the RPO game. um His flexibility is towards the top of the league. um And like I said, just now his touch is also towards the top of the league. It's just that one small element of but ball control where in his off game sometimes he can tend to ah lose control of the football in bad weather but I think that bad weather component is kind of um the only thing that could weigh him down where um his ability to lose control of the football ah when he's trying to push it it's extremely fast in bad weather um that's enough of a small sample for me to where it didn't weigh it down by enough um where
01:04:05
Speaker
Mahomes is superior to Allen is in the areas that I just mentioned in terms of functionality. So he has, he was the guy I was talking about with outlier flexibility that kind of gives him the ability to make certain th throws that other quarterbacks wouldn't attempt. He also has fantastic touch near the top of the league, has extremely good ball control, which is also towards the top of the league. um And his velocity and max distance were the things kind of holding me back. If I were to make the list based on max velocity and max distance. um He would probably still be solidly in the top five, but I don't know if he would have ah quite a strong case for number one. um Maybe something like three or four behind a few of the guys I mentioned being Allen, Justin Herbert, and Anthony Richardson. um But a spectacular, spectacular arm talent nonetheless, and I have no issues with potty ranking him number one, really.
01:04:59
Speaker
yeah for me this is also close and as much as we'll have our little mahomes and allen debate both of these guys are all-time arm talents and all-time talents in general and i think are gonna end up being at the top of a lot of these lists so they're they're both great quarterbacks and i think they're both they're both gonna end up having to be talked about in all-time lists for these traits rather than just these but for right now we are talking about this right here and i agree with a lot of how you broke down each of the quarterbacks games so i won't get into that anymore where i'll just talk about why i have mahomes at one and alan at two and where we differ slightly
01:05:43
Speaker
is how I'm evaluating this and I'm a little surprised because you were e skewing more for functionality where Mahomes clearly has the upper hand and as we discussed prior to this we we were trying to skew a little bit more for functionality in general and I think that's where Mahomes ends up beating Alan as an overall armed talent where Alan is at his best there's very few that can mess with him like when we're talking about max distance max velocity he is superhuman he yeah He is one of those quarterbacks like your Anthony Richardson's, like your even a little bit on the lower scare, like a Will Levis who just naturally is very big, very strong and is able to just deliver it with so much power and so far downfield that not many guys can match it. He's just a huge guy that can do that. similar Similarly with something like his ah ah
01:06:35
Speaker
arm strength and arm velocity it's something that's very unmatched but in in aspects like ball control in terms of touch in terms of flexibility mentioned he's improving and i agree he's massively changed from the josh allen we saw earlier in his career who wasn't very great in those aspects and now you can even argue he's in the very good tier or creeping up in a lot of those traits but he's still nowhere near the elite and when you look at Mahomes in every single one of these categories I think he would argue he is either number one and still at least in the elite tier though Mahomes isn't one of those superhuman athletes
01:07:15
Speaker
like an Anthony Richardson or Allen that is going to dominate in terms of max distance or max velocity. He's still very, very high on that list. He can still deliver the ball very far downfield.
01:07:27
Speaker
and the throw the ball at a very high velocity, maybe not even at ah the same level as Pique Mahomes, but still at a, I'd say, top five level. And in terms of ah flexibility, he's obviously out of this world, one of the most flexible quarterbacks we've seen of all time in terms of flexibility. In terms of ball control, he's one of the more precise quarterbacks in the league at this point in his career. The way he plays his game, much different than Alan in terms of the ball control,
01:07:57
Speaker
He's very, very precise in that aspect. Touch, we've seen in him deliver so many different types of throws. He can throw it downfield. He can fit the ball into small windows with velocity. He can layer the ball in between zones. He can fit the ball into spaces better than I think anyone else on this list and far better than Allen. And as we go through each category, I think he has cleared Allen in every single category, barring the ones that largely skew natural talent. And I think if we are trying to skew more for functionity functionality, Mahomes has to be number one. Because if Mahomes had the arm talent that Allen had in the traditional sense, in terms of the velocity and arm distance, he'd be a far superior quarterback.
01:08:46
Speaker
so As when skewing functionality we'd have to go my homes here, but I can also understand the argument for Alan I mean both these quarterbacks are out of this world as PD mentioned to all right That'll be all for us in this one make sure to likely be reading do what you need to do a platform that you're listening on Make sure to follow me on Twitter at Pd34 underscore and at real row potty 2 for potty That'll be all for me. That'll be all for potty. We'll see you guys in the next one. Peace
01:09:35
Speaker
Now we can be superstars!