Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Charlie Dunne - The Timeless Art of Watch Books & The Research Collected From Them
1.4k Plays1 year ago
Today's guest is Charlie Dunne, someone we all got to know under the moniker Books On Time. Passionate about watches, Charlie's that type of collection who took his affection a step further by not only collecting books, but mainly collecting research on the brands and watches that he loves the most. Needless to say, the word got out pretty darn quick about Books On Time and Charlie began writing a lot more in depth content for other friends mediums, like Rescapement. Eventually, our good friend Eric Wind snatched him up to come join the team, and that's where we're at today. Charlie is writing some serious content over at Wind Vintage and doing a lot more work behind the scenes as well. Him and I recently got a chance to catch up in New York, and today we're continuing our conversation over the mics. So without further adieu, my friend Charlie Dunne, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Strictly Vintage Watches - https://www.strictlyvintagewatches.com/
Wind Vintage - https://www.windvintage.com/
John Goldberger Books - https://www.johngoldbergerwatches.com/books.html
Le Cadran/The Dial - https://shop.hodinkee.com/blogs/journal/the-dial-the-face-of-the-wristwatch-in-the-20th-century-by-dr-helmut-crott
Recommended
Transcript
Is the Longines book worth $400?
00:00:00
Speaker
I always loved the Longines book. I remember renting legendary Longines watches through my inner library loan program because I was like, I can't spend $400 on a book, let alone a book on Longines. You think back in the day, you're like, is Longines the $400 worthy of spending on a book? And then after a few years, you're like, hell yeah, of course it's worth it.
Welcome to Collector's Gene Radio
00:00:24
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? And welcome to Collector's Gene Radio.
00:00:28
Speaker
This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Meet Charlie Dunn, the Watch Collector
00:00:49
Speaker
Today's guest is Charlie Dunn, someone we all got to know under the moniker Books on Time. Passionate about watches, Charlie's that type of collector who took his affection a step further by not only collecting books, but mainly collecting research on the brands and watches that he loves the most. Needless to say, the work got out pretty darn quick about Books on Time, and Charlie began writing a lot more in-depth content for other friends' mediums, like rescapement.
00:01:16
Speaker
Eventually, our good friend Eric Wynn snatched him up to come join the team and that's where we're at today. Charlie is writing some serious content over at Wynn Vintage and doing a lot more work behind the scenes as well. And when I recently got a chance to catch up in New York and today we're continuing our conversation over the mics. So without further ado, my friend Charlie Dunn for Collectors Gene Radio. Charlie, it's been a long time coming, but thank you for joining me on Collectors Gene Radio today.
A Day at Wynn Vintage
00:01:44
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me, Cameron.
00:01:46
Speaker
What's a Wednesday like over there at wind vintage? Man, uh, today's a little bit slower. Uh, so I'm excited about that. It is, uh, comprised mostly as far as editing the, uh, podcast. We've been off the hiatus for about maybe a month or so. And so just editing the podcasts, I got to, uh, chill and work from home this morning, but, um, in about an hour or two, I'll be knee deep in packages and getting watches out and probably, uh,
00:02:15
Speaker
getting through more listings and email correspondence. I've relaxed enough until this hour. So we'll see how busy I am in a little bit. See how many emails come through. Yeah.
00:02:28
Speaker
love it. So Wednesday for me is somehow always just a super swamp day of everything. It's actually one of many anniversaries for my wife and I today. So we'll do some stuff later tonight and go out to dinner and do that, that sort of thing when, uh, when work winds down a little bit in the evening, but every day's usually pretty busy over here. And
00:02:53
Speaker
I know the podcast over here has also been a little bit on the back end for the last month as things got a little busy, but trying to bring it back. So it looks like we're on the same page. No, I think it's worth it. The people need to wait for greatness. Yeah, make them wait. So before when vintage, you and I connected over at your previous page, which was books on time, which seems like ages ago.
00:03:20
Speaker
Tell me about what you were doing before books on time and what led you to start that? You know, what got you so interested in published content about time?
Charlie's Journey into Vintage Watches
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, a few years ago, I was living in St. Augustine and I was working in, um, digital marketing, primarily working with, uh, nonprofits and working through Google analytics and Google ads and everything in between kind of all the Google products for digital marketing for clients. And, um, my passion obviously was,
00:03:50
Speaker
Vintage watches, but in St. Augustine, there's not really a huge vintage watch scene, if you will. So, you know, a little bit relegated to waiting until those opportunities come where you get to see great vintage watches and kind of hike down towards Palm Beach area.
00:04:08
Speaker
link up with Eric every now and then and see watches, but it was much more easy to, and probably less expensive also, than collecting vintage watches was finding great books and published material, primary source material on vintage watches, everything from advertisements to books that were published in the 80s, 90s.
00:04:30
Speaker
that were just recently published. So that was kind of where my main focus of collecting was. And now I've found myself with a little bit too many books, but at the same time, I know you're a lover of watchbooks. So I think you can relate that it was not that bad money spent or time misspent.
The Art of Collecting Watch Books
00:04:50
Speaker
No doubt. I feel like the path you took was a bit unconventional, meaning
00:04:55
Speaker
Most watch books are written by collectors based on the items that they collect right, but you were collecting the books and then writing about writing further rather about the knowledge and information that you found inside of them and and doing you know a little bit deeper research and then sharing that with people like me not to say that you weren't interested in watches or weren't collecting them, but would you say that's pretty accurate?
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that like, all of the treasure hunting for vintage watches, there's the same type of excitement about books and finding great ads. I mean, it's just, it's one of those things. It's not all of the information that is, you know, published on the internet on blogs and articles is necessarily
00:05:38
Speaker
the end all in terms of information there's a lot of people from both our generation and older collectors that missed opportunities to look for primary source material or published works that took you know a little bit more effort and a little bit more rigor in terms of writing the books back in the day so i mean you know the books are exciting and on top of that you know it's one of those things is like.
00:06:03
Speaker
I like ephemera. I like boxes. I like, you know, publications. All of this stuff is just as exciting to me if I can find like a buckle for a watch. So the books are also one of those things is like if you go back to those early days of
00:06:18
Speaker
Hodinky articles, you'll see that the same kind of mindset was on these people who were writing articles in 2012, 13, they're taking photos of their watches on top of a photo, you know, within a book, you know, kind of getting the little setting right for their photo opportunity. And these kind of like, these little types of, you know, behaviors are very similar as they were 10 years ago. And probably before that, people just love all of this stuff that surrounds the watches.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, no doubt. What books did you start out collecting and where has the collection evolved today?
Evolution of a Watch Book Collection
00:06:53
Speaker
You know, what are you hunting now? Because these can range from, you could find some of these books on eBay and other websites and auction houses for really cheap or they can get really, really darn expensive.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, all the books, like for instance, the first books that I would come across, you know, antique shopping with my dad, he was really big into, um, antique chairs. And so he would drag me along and I have books from way back that were the Schiffer publication books that were kind of these, you know, 1990s, early 2000s publications of, of collecting watches. So everything from like 20th century wristwatches,
00:07:32
Speaker
You know, those publications are phenomenal ones and I still even kind of comb through those pages.
00:07:37
Speaker
after owning the books for several years. But the stuff that I was really excited by, I think we're kind of like the more kind of collector focused books. I always loved the Longines book. I remember renting legendary Longines watches through my inner library loan program because I was like, I can't spend $400 on a book, let alone a book on Longines. You know, you think back in the day, you're like,
00:08:02
Speaker
is Longines, the $400 worthy of spending on a book. And then after a few years, you're like, hell yeah, of course it's worth it. You're like, I need three of them. I know I need, I actually have two copies of them behind me. I got the advanced copy and then I've got one in German, I think too. But you know, those, those types of formats, I think that like, you know, the
00:08:23
Speaker
the Moonwatch only books, the Longines books, the Goldberger's Rolex books. I like those types of formats where you can see the components of a watch and it gives you a little bit of a forensic look at what the watch is. But at the same time, I think that it's important to have
00:08:43
Speaker
a very big visual component to a book because that's what makes these things actually big and beautiful, like things that you want to open up. It's got to have good visual component to it. So even the coffee table books that are kind of more so for just admiring rather than intensive research are great. I like a little bit of scholarly work though, the stuff that you can open up every now and then and find something new.
00:09:06
Speaker
and learned a little bit too. And maybe go back to, it's kind of, it is very similar to a watch in a lot of ways or even a film where you can watch it multiple times and each time you pick up on something different or a nuance that maybe you skipped over. 100%, yeah.
00:09:24
Speaker
As you mentioned, and as you know, I collect books as well, watchbooks being one of the many categories that I collect in. And, you know, we definitely share some love for some very specifics like the John Goldberg books that you mentioned. And you and I have probably been against each other on one of those probably one time or another. But do you have a favorite from his collection?
Charlie's Favorite Watch Books
00:09:45
Speaker
I think Longines is my favorite book and the expanded copy where it's a big tome with a leather bound cover. I do love the Rolex book also, the Omega books also.
00:10:00
Speaker
You know time to race was cool and all that i'm not really huge automotive or racing kind of guy but i can appreciate that type of like genre as well but i'm curious to hear what your favorite one is i think i know what it is steel paddock is what i imagine that one is is maybe number two my favorite one is is less of a
00:10:21
Speaker
informational book. It's the book he did with Alessandro Scorsese. Yes. The Time to Wear book on his collection. I love the relationship between the two of them and how different both of their collections are, but share so many similarities in a lot of way. It's like a collab book, if you will. I don't know why. That one's just fun to look through. It's less of a learning experience.
00:10:48
Speaker
No, I think you're right. I mean, also, some of these books are great, like, not only from just, you know, you open them up and enjoy, you know, Sunday afternoon with them, but like, it's cool to have something, you know, beautiful on the wall. It's like a, you know, collection of a clock or anything like similar. It's just, it's beautiful to have a nice book. And those books are quite cool. You know, you open them up and spend time where you lend them to a friend. I mean, they're important objects, like just like watches are, but
00:11:15
Speaker
I don't have that copy, so I'm going to probably try and get an interlibrary loan program with you and I'll find something that's worthy of trading for two weeks to exchange with you, Cameron. Yeah, I'm sure there's a couple of watches I'd like to, as Eric would say, have a sleepover with. You're more than welcome to them.
00:11:33
Speaker
Another one that we love is Dr. Kratz, The Dial, or if anybody's like me and had no patients, I bought the French version, so Les Cadreins. So that's another book that we both absolutely love that is super informational and super special.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I remember when the English copy got released after about two or three years of both of us probably emailing him and saying, there's a market for the English copies, please let us know when it's ready. And he was actually quite, you know, responsive because
00:12:08
Speaker
He emailed me back in the same email thread years after the fact and said, hey, it's coming. Keep an eye out on Hodinki and elsewhere. That book is sweet. I think that there's those genres of publications where you focus on a brand or in this instance, you focus on the actual component of the watch, the dial.
00:12:30
Speaker
the story of the Stearns. It's a fantastic story and all the different tile genres of how they evolved over the years from pockets to wristwatches and the techniques that kind of came and went and then sometimes in some instances came back and were revived. It's a beautiful story in dial making, case making, movement making. It's all kind of
00:12:56
Speaker
very romantic process. And so, you know, you see people who have affinity for things that are in house or what have you. And then you have people who say, I don't care what the movement is, as long as the dial maker is a stern, or if it's a singer, you know, these are the things that people get obsessed with. And, you know, we all have our own kind of areas of focus. And, you know, the dial is kind of one of those, those genres of watchmaking that's just so beautiful. And to have a book that's dedicated to it, I think that's a,
00:13:23
Speaker
It's very much a classic, so it's definitely a must-have. Definitely. Yeah, I remember emailing him, and like you said, he was super responsive, and I had zero patience. He's like, I'm sure the English version is coming. I just don't know exactly when. I can't give you a timeline. I was like, screw it. I would be happy with the French version.
00:13:41
Speaker
And Google translate the app on your phone actually works pretty easy for you. You can just open it up and look through your phone. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I also thought because I actually buy a lot of these books in different languages. I'm like, well, a lot of these auction houses that I follow in a lot of these
00:13:57
Speaker
you know, live auctions that I follow, they're talking in different languages, it would actually be cool to learn about some of these terms and be able to recognize them in different languages for that purpose. So like the Goldberg Rolex book, I bought the German version, the dial book, I bought the French version. And, you know, I'm sure I have a few other nuances like that in the collection. And you probably probably saved about $600 on the German version for the Goldberg books. At least, at least I think I paid like
00:14:26
Speaker
you know, 100 or 150 bucks for it. I've seen the English versions going for like 800, 900, 1000. I was like, I'm fine with that. It's funny you say that about the languages right now. I've got an interest in learning Spanish and it kind of has stemmed from working with a local watchmaker by the name of Jose who his English is not, you know, incredible, but it's much better than my Spanish. And so,
00:14:52
Speaker
Now I've kind of taken to, you know, trying to learn Spanish and make all of these requests. My Spanish is not particularly great, but I can ask a few different requests on watches, which I think he gets a little bit of a chuckle out of sometimes because he has to repeat the words and how to pronounce them and actual what the order of the words are. But it's, you know, it's fun. It's like that's part of the enjoyment of it as well. You get a, you know, appreciation for
00:15:22
Speaker
the culture of other people from the watchmaking. It's not just all about Switzerland. You cannot have people that are German speaking. You cannot have people that don't have any real connection to you at all, but you have this interest over watches and you figure a way out how to communicate to each other. And we do that all too often with Instagram and email when it comes to our passion. No doubt. So taking a step back a bit,
00:15:47
Speaker
Books on time starts to grow and you start to get some traction. You're being interviewed by a lot of people. You're being asked to write for other folks like our good friend Tony at rescapement. Were your wheels starting to spin on where you could really take the platform? It gained traction pretty quickly. Your timing was pretty on point. Yeah. Honestly, it was a situation where the books, it was limited. It's like, what is my next step? Am I going to produce a book?
00:16:14
Speaker
Or am I going to write my own, you know, blog or all that stuff? But then you kind of are limited to the fact that you're only writing about someone else's intellectual property. So I think that there was a desire for people to have conversations about these things. And I hope there still is, you know, it's, it's, it's a great thing to have people who collect focus specifically on finding catalogs, who find advertisements, who can find you, you
The Importance of Handling Watches
00:16:38
Speaker
know, whatever it is, buckles, boxes, these things that we all are obsessed with.
00:16:44
Speaker
But quite soon on, I would realize that I needed to be accessing more vintage watches because that's what it came down to is being able to see these things in person. There's only so much you can learn about limited to your screen, to your books. If you want to be an expert on watches, you have to be spending a lot of time handling watches.
00:17:10
Speaker
Money was not necessarily growing on trees at my last job, at least in terms of the type of taste that I had for watches. I wasn't going to be getting any Audemars Piguets or Patek Philippe's or Rolex's just working in St. Augustine. But the more sensible thing that I found in terms of access was hitting up Eric and keep on asking him, hey, when's a good time that I can come down? I want to see some watches. I'll try not to get in the way.
00:17:39
Speaker
That was where I really started to begin to feel anxious to get more hands-on with watches. I love the writing and all of that stuff, but again, it's like you don't necessarily know all the context of what you're writing about without having the ability of talking with people, without being able to hold stuff. It's a critical thing to learn. You have to be able to write, talk, experience.
00:18:06
Speaker
It's something that I've come to appreciate a lot more is the actual conversations surrounding watches because the people that I typically admire in terms of experts and thought leaders on vintage watches, they have spent a good amount of time doing the rounds of every single format, whether it is writing, whether it is video, all of this stuff is kind of integral for
00:18:33
Speaker
for somebody who can call themselves an expert or somebody who's influential and watches. Sure. And then somewhere down the road, our good friend and your colleague, Eric Wynn, snags you to come join his team. Since then, you've gotten back into writing, which is great. You've written some amazing in-depth articles for winvintage.com, like the 10 best vintage Rolexes to collect.
00:18:56
Speaker
the collector's guide to the Rolex GMT Master 1675. What about vintage Rolexes? It's so exciting to you to not only collect, but to do so much research on.
Rolex: Rugged and Reliable
00:19:07
Speaker
Because at this point, I feel as if you collect the knowledge on this stuff more so than you enjoy collecting the watches themselves. Yeah, it's funny. Eric was the person who really turned me on to why Rolexes is so awesome.
00:19:25
Speaker
earliest years, I was obsessed with everything from JLC to Longines. But Rolex is just such an awesome product. And not to say that other manufacturers don't make incredible timepieces. I mean, it's like, that'd be crazy talk to say that. But in terms of just a sturdy, really reliable watch, it's just amazing to see someone work on these timepieces and make them chronometer certified. They can regulate these things and to various positions, they're all running within
00:19:54
Speaker
good specs waterproofing these things obviously you know in regards to watch like the gmt the characteristics of these watches. Are you know breathtaking you see them in all different flavors you know the condition of you know certain dials how they held up or.
00:20:12
Speaker
the bezel colors, the way they fade in certain years, the way that they gracefully age over the course of years even with wear. Rolex is this awesome, rugged timepiece that even though by today's standards people see as a luxury, these things are just so incredibly well made and I love the product behind it.
00:20:38
Speaker
Collecting, like you said earlier, it's collecting of the knowledge more so than the watches. My bank account is not as deep as what my aspirations are in all the vintage watches that I'd love to own. But in terms of actually holding these things, if you were to tell me a few years ago, it's like, oh, wow, you get to be able to handle certain watches every single day. You have to remind yourself how great that is. I mean, I love
00:21:06
Speaker
I love my job. I get to see some of the most incredible watches every day and even spending like five minutes, if it just comes in and I know that it's going to a client immediately, that five minutes of being able to like hang out with the watch, if it's just a truly exceptional thing, that's great enough. It's honestly, it's a very special thing.
00:21:27
Speaker
Are there any brands or specific watches that before working at WinVintage you really, really loved?
Modern vs. Vintage Watches
00:21:33
Speaker
And then, you know, this happens often. You get jaded from seeing and holding onto and researching and being able to wear, even if it's for five minutes or look at even if it's for five minutes. Is there anything that you really loved in the beginning that you're kind of like, ah, you know, I still like it, but I'm happy I don't own it?
00:21:52
Speaker
It's interesting. I think a lot of the modern stuff I'm kind of jaded on. There are certain modern watches that I look at and have a lot of respect for. The Tudor Black Bay line I think is incredible. I wore a Black Bay yesterday. I love that watch. I left it in the bank for about a month and then just recently kind of was speaking to somebody who was doing a
00:22:18
Speaker
doing a conversation with me on tutors. And then I was like, gosh, I need to get that watch out. So I was excited to wear it again. But most modern watches for me are not really as enthralling. And I think perhaps it's a little bit because that characteristic that we were talking about a second ago is kind of what draws me in. I like the very specific looks that one watch can take on over a course of decades of wear.
00:22:48
Speaker
I think Nautilus's and Audemars Piguet's perhaps a few years ago would have been something that I've been like, oh, that's sick. Let me see that. Now it's kind of like, well, it's not really for me, but I can appreciate the fact that these are iconic in the sense of
00:23:04
Speaker
watch collectors appreciate them, people who are very fashionable, focused people, they love the streetwear, they love high-end clothing, they like the style element of it. I like the fact that it's there, but for me, the commercial appeal of stuff is not as exciting. So that genre is a little bit...
00:23:26
Speaker
It's not like something that I'm romantic about, but there's a lot of watches that I had an affinity for before I started working at Wind Vintage that I still am, you know, even more nuts about to this day. Any specifics? Oh, wow. JLC Memovoxes. I'm actually looking at a Memovox that's ending today on a bit. I don't want to tell where it is, but I'm bidding on it and... Is there still hope?
00:23:50
Speaker
There is hope. There's always hope and if I win it, then I'll probably be as ecstatic as I was, you know, getting my first watcher. It's those things, you know, those things are really
00:24:02
Speaker
I'm just nuts about them. I find them so interesting and I've owned a lot of them, but still to this day, I'm just as excited about when one comes in that's not the most expensive one or if it's a 35 millimeter or a 34 millimeter watch, it's still as exciting as a 37 millimeter one. Those watches are just very sentimental to me.
00:24:27
Speaker
I'm excited when I get to be able to offer them to someone who feels the same romanticism about a Memovox that I do. I'm like, yes, this is going to a great home.
Jaeger-LeCoultre: Craftsmanship Admiration
00:24:40
Speaker
JL sees a brand that you're known for being extremely fond of. I'm curious to know what it is about the brand that you love so much.
00:24:48
Speaker
maybe if there's any books from them that you're pretty fond of. Yeah, LeCoultre is just a really remarkable manufacturer. I think all of the value manufacturers are important, you know, to the story of watchmaking. You know, people have their holy trinities, and I don't necessarily, like, think, oh, okay, this is the holy trinity of watchmaking. These people are wrong for thinking that. But, you know, there's a great story when it comes to LeCoultre, and they
00:25:16
Speaker
very much behind the scenes for a lot of the very important and monumental releases for everyone's company. It's like LeCoultre is an ingenious watch banker and the story of that brand is just as much about clocks as wristwatches. If you happen to have an interest in clocks, you could be in that case about clocks and not care about wristwatches at all. But LeCoultre is still as important as
00:25:43
Speaker
as the other side of the collector's perspective. JLC is just a remarkable company. I think it's one of those areas that I still think that it's not as mainstream in terms of the vintage catalog hasn't really taken
00:26:01
Speaker
a huge jump in prices over the course of the years when I started getting into them. So that makes me happy in terms of hunting for certain things. I like to be able to hold them and hopefully keep them for a little bit of time. So that's exciting. But at the same time, watchmaking pedigree is the way that they describe it. They are very solid.
00:26:22
Speaker
And there's also a lot of great books about them. The most recent one is The Collectibles, which is more so the collector guide. It's got a range of watches that probably deserved a little bit more in-depth scholarship on, and I was very pleased when they released the book, and I still am opening it up on.
00:26:41
Speaker
my days off and checking it out and trying to take photos of my Memovox and align it with the background page. But I need to get you a copy because I think you dig it. It'll probably make you a nuts for, I'd say, Futurmatic. I think you're a Futurmatic type of guy. You think so? Okay. I would imagine. I thought I was maybe a Reverso guy too, but... Yeah, you're definitely a Reverso guy, but if we're going to be a little bit more flamboyant, we'd look for a Futurmatic for you. Love that.
00:27:12
Speaker
Are there any books out there that you wish existed but don't, to your knowledge, or any topics rather? Yeah, I think a book on casemakers would be excellent. I would also like to see more books on vintage Rolex. I think that would be pretty good. There's tons of books on vintage Rolex.
00:27:31
Speaker
you know, more, you know, more kind of expanded like collectors kind of resources would be epic. A lot of the stuff that's been published back in the day was, you know, outdated or hearsay and stuff like that. So a nice really big comprehensive book on collecting vintage Rolexes or a focused book on GMTs or Daytonas or
00:27:52
Speaker
just a reference point in general kind of style book would be epic.
The Need for Comprehensive Watch Literature
00:27:56
Speaker
I think, but Casemakers would probably be the one where I would imagine the biggest potential is because right now, at least it seems as though more so than ever, people are focused on design and the case construction of certain watches and huge opportunity. What book would you like to see written? I'm curious, I'm curious on that one.
00:28:17
Speaker
I think a book on all double signed watches would be really interesting. That would be sick. All the different retailers and brands and all that stuff. There's so much unknown about, and we could only make the small inferences that we can on a Cartier signed Daytona. We can obviously just make the inference that
00:28:41
Speaker
they had a partnership together at some point and were able to sell watches in the boutique at some point. But there's so much more to that because there's so few of them that I find would be so interesting. Even just the long standing relationship with Patek and Tiffany is really interesting. But there's so many defunct retailers that have had their names put on dials that I just find super interesting. And even the collaboration watches,
00:29:07
Speaker
I talk about this all the time and people are probably sick of it, but I love a lot of the Ralph Lauren watches because they have the manual calibers or Piaget calibers. And I love the idea of that partnership. Yeah, they had a lot of JLCs and Piagets. And if you look at the cases on some of those, you can kind of identify what they are in terms of the caliber, but some of those cases are pretty cool in terms of the engine turning and like, you know,
00:29:34
Speaker
There's a lot of detail in some of those watches. There's too small little like kind of faux leather, alligator leather.
00:29:42
Speaker
kind of like black uh... glossy books i've got to find them somewhere but i don't know if you have them but they're kind of like uh... i would say they're kind of like uh... those retailer like books that they probably would have had the on the shelf uh... for people who are trying to sell the ralph leren watches because you can imagine that there was like a specialized like salesperson for the ralph leren watches they just probably threw them in there like hopefully these will sell but i've got um... i've got two little books i'll have to try and find them
00:30:09
Speaker
and dig up and send you because at least you'll appreciate them. Yeah, I love that stuff. Anyway, I think that that kind of book would be really interesting too. And I'm sure at some point someone will work on some sort of article or book on that stuff, but there's so little information about some of that stuff that
00:30:31
Speaker
it might be too difficult unless you're super knowledgeable on some of those partnerships and retailers. It would be cool to see a comprehensive look at South American retailers for Patek Philippe and the watches that were sold in South America. Yeah, like Serpico with Lionel. Yeah, it'd be cool to see all that. Even Rolex and Cuba or something like that, all of the cool double-signed watches. It's an interesting genre. There's
00:30:59
Speaker
There's interest in that. For me, I'm not really a huge on, I want a second signature or more text on my tile, but at the same time, people love the romanticism around that stuff. That's what makes the watch for them. It is a cherry on top if everything else adds up and the pricing makes sense and all the stars align. It is just that little extra.
00:31:24
Speaker
You know, it's that last bite sort of thing that I think puts people over the edge and yeah, super interesting stuff.
00:31:31
Speaker
Charlie, any plans going forward at Wind Vintage for more collector's articles or anything exciting that you and Eric are working on that you can share maybe a little snippet of or any exciting partnerships that you guys have coming up soon? Yeah, for partnerships, I'll leave that one to Eric to be the one to announce. But I actually have an article I wanted to work with him on which was
00:31:56
Speaker
he kind of addressed it on his HSNY part too, but 10 watches that I'd love to own. So I think I'll try and have him narrate that one to me in kind of going on that announcement and I'm saying that people expect it once this interview drops. So I'll have to sit him down and tell him to just start talking about 10 different watches. But I think he's got a list that we kind of comprised for his HSNY article. There's a lot of articles that I'd like to write. I mean, I think that
00:32:24
Speaker
Kind of a article on why the caliber 990 from pet tech would be a special one. These are watches that primarily are to know shaped or kind of, you know,
00:32:36
Speaker
fanciful cases when it gets a little bit later into the 50s. That caliber was produced, I think, in 1932 and was in their catalog for, I want to say, 20, 30 years. It might have been 30 years, but it was a really cool manual to no-shaped movement.
00:32:58
Speaker
that was basically emerging as the sterns took over Patek Philippe. I think that would be a really interesting article. The watches themselves are fairly affordable because most of them are going to be rectangular in smaller shapes, but that would be something that I'd be excited to write on. Maybe even something like an article on the listicles,
00:33:24
Speaker
the 10 watches, 10 Rolex watches you have to collect kind of thing. It's good for SEO for whatever reason. People get excited about like a listicle title. That's one thing that Tony Treanor kind of gave me advice on. He says, make an article. If you want people to read it, make a list in the title and says, all right, fine. I'll give that a shot.
00:33:46
Speaker
And ironically my boss at my old job back in St. Augustine sent me a screenshot and texted me and he saw it on Google Discover and he clicked the link and he said, oh shoot, Charlie's article is being shown to me. I thought that was hilarious. Yeah, it was pretty fun. I don't know. I mean, what articles would you like to see? That's an important question I should ask.
00:34:07
Speaker
I feel like you guys get so many interesting watches and interesting stories that come through the site and through the shop there.
Collector-Grade Watches: Annual Highlights
00:34:17
Speaker
And I think it would just be interesting of like you always have your what's selling here sort of thing. But I think it would be interesting to kind of take a culmination of all the watches that you guys have listed almost at the end of each year.
00:34:31
Speaker
and create a collection first for the general public based on maybe 10 watches that you guys sold or even five watches that you guys sold within the last year that are just
00:34:42
Speaker
really special, really collector grade, some not, maybe some more just like entry level pieces that just really make sense that flew off the shelf because they were objectively special. I think that that would be interesting because I think there's so much that you guys get that sometimes people didn't even get a chance to see it and not only see it, but like sometimes they're just not even looking at that specific thing when it gets to your guys site. I think that would be a really interesting article. I think, um,
00:35:10
Speaker
Obviously people, you guys work with a ton of celebrities who are not always interested in sharing some of their collection, but I think that that stuff always resonates for whatever reason with a lot of people. And I think more, I think an article showing your collection versus Eric's collection and kind of doing like a little head-to-head thing on that would be really cool too.
00:35:30
Speaker
All right. I like all three of those ideas. I'm going to probably steal one or two of those as my own idea and give you credit to Eric on the first or the second. And hopefully I'll be you don't have to give me credit. I'll just have a little smile from my laptop. It'll be fun. I think that would be cool. Also like a collector kind of, you know, focus article on.
00:35:50
Speaker
on people, even if they're not necessarily high profile, but people who are low key that just have a very cool kind of genre of watches they collect or if they collect very heavy hitter places. Yeah, there's a lot of diverse collectors out there that have some really interesting things or
00:36:09
Speaker
you know, on the same topic of that, taking five different collectors and choosing one or two watches from each of their collections and creating a collection based on that would be interesting too. I think that's a great idea. I mean, and now it's kind of the best time to do that too because there's so many people that are in the game that have incredibly cool or unique watches and it's not necessarily a matter of having like
00:36:32
Speaker
a ton of money in order to get something. Collectors really love something that's just interesting or exceptional or different. You see how many people get excited about design-focused watches nowadays as opposed to four years ago when it was all about vintage Rolex subs. Five years ago when it was vintage Rolex subs, now people like stuff that you couldn't convince them to buy or you couldn't give them that watch five years ago. It would be a cool concept.
00:37:01
Speaker
I'm sure Eric gets a lot of requests to bring a loop back, too. Yeah. His original column was called What's Selling Here? And then they changed it to Bring a Loop. So when we started saying to each other, we're going to get the email campaign out every single week. And at first, Eric was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do that. And then I just had to harass him and be like, it's ready. Let's send it.
00:37:29
Speaker
the concept of what's selling here, which was titled by Christine, Eric's wife, which was a brilliant idea and people love it. So it's one of those deep cuts. If you know you understand why the title is special, but if you go back and I guess the way back machine, you can maybe find a what's selling
00:37:48
Speaker
where uh article or two yeah for sure i think if if once in a blue moon you guys just found something interesting online that obviously you're not buying for yourselves or for the shop and you're for the website and you just kind of put it out to the public of like hey we think this is interesting take a look you know that was kind of the best part of of the what's selling here bring a loop sort of column was
00:38:14
Speaker
It was just watches that people never search for maybe, or maybe they did. And you guys or Eric Rather found a really nice example or an interesting example of it for fair price usually. So that was kind of fun. Yeah, most definitely.
00:38:31
Speaker
All right. I chose three watches that I found, I find are really interesting from the wind vintage site. And so I thought maybe I could list them and you just tell me everything you know about them and why they're, why they're special and why they made it
The Allure of NayaJita Type 1D
00:38:45
Speaker
to your site. Sure. Must have fun.
00:38:47
Speaker
The first one I chose is something that I've never seen in person, but I'm in love with the design. I'm in love with the dial. It's the now Yajita Type 1D, and there's been a few different iterations of this watch, but virtually most of them are the same with minor difference in details, but I absolutely love this watch. Yeah, it's super cool.
00:39:08
Speaker
independence or kind of getting their moment in the last few years, which is special. This watch from what I, at least my understanding of the design is kind of inspired by those early 96s with the offset subsidiary seconds. And some of them would have been signed like the E Bernard or, you know, these watches, even like the JB champion one, which was later the chronometer one made especially for JB.
00:39:36
Speaker
But it's a really interesting design, which obviously kind of plays on the classic Calatrava.
00:39:42
Speaker
I love the watch. It's heft up in terms of size for the modern person. I think that's a smart move from the brand doing it at 37 millimeters. But really the special part about these watches from my perspective is the hands. I think the hands are really sophisticated. They have a great blue. Those little tiny details for me are what stands out about it. And then on top of that, people really are drawn to the dials, the hand engraving.
00:40:11
Speaker
on the signatures and Breguet's. It's like, it's a great watch, you know, as far as what I love to own it. For me, I'm kind of more, you know, personally fond of the vintage stuff, but I can see why someone who's as classic as you and with great taste is choosing that one out of the three.
00:40:30
Speaker
How does it wear? Because, you know, that's obviously not a watch that everybody gets to get their hands on. And I absolutely have not got my hands on one. And, you know, you see 37 millimeters, you think, wow, great size, but it kind of matters also about the lug to lug, which is I think around 44 or 46, if I'm not mistaken.
00:40:48
Speaker
It was good. I mean, it's like, it's kind of a little bit robust in terms of size to give it, you know, some feel to it, which is smart. It wouldn't be a great watch if it was 33 millimeters. I mean, at least, you know, it would be a great watch. I can't say that, but it wouldn't be something that people are so fond about, you know, because this is something that people kind of ask for in terms of they want something classic or a little bit more
00:41:12
Speaker
heritage inspired from brands like the Patek's, like the AP's. It wears really well in the size because the lug, like the actual broadness of the lugs is great. And then on top of that, like dimensions of the numerals of the sub seconds, it's a pretty nice substantial watch on the wrist without necessarily being, you know, you know, a boat on your, on your arm. Right. Love it. All right.
JLC 18K Gold Memovox: A Passion
00:41:40
Speaker
You have a,
00:41:41
Speaker
Jaeger LeCoultre 18 karat gold memo box. It's a reference E853. It is unpolished and with an extract. And you see these memo boxes in steel, you see them in gold, and you really can't go wrong with either one. So tell me about this guy. This watch speaks to my heart. I love this thing. It's funny. I knew about this watch.
00:42:08
Speaker
Before I even worked at Wind Vintage, it was owned by another collector and dealer. And so I had already been on this thing. I thought it was the best. And one day I came into the office and Eric said, I got a sick watch coming. And I opened up the package and saw this thing. And I was just like, yes, this has just made my day. It's a cool watch. You know, these, the 853s are the time only variations. More common is the 855s.
00:42:36
Speaker
But they wear so cool. They're like 37 millimeters. They've got, you know, kind of like this disco Volante style slanted bezel. They're phenomenal watches. And then on top of that, this one's kind of a relatively early one. It's from 1957, according to the extract, but these watches were
00:42:56
Speaker
produce the automatic variants of these were produced in 57. And right around 1960, I think is where the automatic with date function came in. So they, you know, JLC, when you look at the alarm complication, they kind of hit the ground running where they introduced the Memovox, the manual wind, the automatic, the automatic with date, then, you know, they've got the compressor style cases that are submergible. It's like they really were focused on this as a product line. And this is just the classic,
00:43:26
Speaker
automatic, simple time only dial. And then on top of that, it's right at the period where they start to begin introducing these branding symbols. And this one having kind of the absence of a JL applied at 12 and unsigned crowns, that for me is like, I like that.
00:43:45
Speaker
I kind of like the less commercial cues on a watch. So even though I love the applied JL, this one having just lapidated 12-hour markers and at 6, it's just beautiful.
00:43:59
Speaker
Love it. I love watches that have an extract. To me, an extract is significantly cooler and far more interesting than having papers on a watch. And so, I love when watches come with an extract or when at least you have the opportunity to get an extract for a watch. I think it's just so fun. What's your favorite extract from a manufacturer?
Insights from Longines and Omega Extracts
00:44:21
Speaker
Because, I mean, the new Patek extracts are, I guess, a little bit more
00:44:26
Speaker
You know, they're a little bit more corporate looking. I think that the older ones were a little bit more romantic, but which extracts do you think are the most beautiful? Yeah, I love the older Patek extracts. I have one. And I think the newer ones, someone showed me, a friend of ours showed me one, a newer one the other day. And I was like, is that fake? Like, is that a real extract? I didn't, I haven't seen one yet. And I was like, wow, I'm kind of disappointed to see that.
00:44:53
Speaker
I don't think Cartier does extracts, at least I've never seen one and if they did, I would have to imagine they would be as elegant as their watches are. I love the Longine extracts and Omega because they tell you, and I haven't seen a JLC one so I can't speak on that, but I love how they tell you
00:45:12
Speaker
Where it was invoiced to, you know, the city, obviously the data is always fun, but I love when you see like a long gene extract and it's like, this was invoiced to, I think their retailer's name was like Oster Setzer or something like that.
00:45:27
Speaker
I can't remember the pronunciation, but in Italy, and this is the date, and I don't know, you just get the whole story, and you can look at the watch and be like, I get it, or that's interesting that this was invoiced to this place at this time.
00:45:44
Speaker
I love those two and Omega does the same thing. Longines records are just like they're on math. They're incredible. It's so cool and I love that they also just do it on a very small compact kind of cardboard, not cardboard, but a little small paper. It's smart, it's good, but it's compact and it's not burdensome. You don't have to
00:46:06
Speaker
Fold it over five times. It fits wherever you want to put it. It looks like a diploma, you know, I love it. It's so do you have a favorite by the way, you know, I think
00:46:19
Speaker
I mean, for me, I don't know if I probably would say Longine. I would say Longine, but tech is nice, but Longine is that extra kind of component of it was sent here or they'll tell you outright. We don't know where it was sent or we don't know who the agent was in the United States at this point because our records don't indicate this detail. I think that Longine goes that little extra step and then on top of that, providing it for free.
00:46:48
Speaker
is just like, you have to applaud it. And they're fast. Yeah. Longine is just a remarkable brand. I mean, again, like the books, the collecting, it's fantastic. I wish that for me, I wish that I had the opportunity to have more Longines. I think it's very competitive also. The people who have them are very studious individuals. They love the scholarship and they also love different genres of watches. They love pockets.
00:47:16
Speaker
a specific 1930s run of waterproof time-only watches or chronographs or the 70s stuff.
00:47:26
Speaker
It's like a whole world within a world when you talk to a long jeans collector. They know exactly what they're interested in and they can tell you everything about their watches. I wish that there was more stuff in the United States. It's kind of one of those things. Luckily, we've got Hoyer and Abercrombie and Fitch to keep us comfortable at night, but it'd be nice to have the long jeans in my life.
00:47:49
Speaker
Love it. All right. The third watch I chose is a Vacheron Constant 10 reference 43031. I believe it's a perpetual calendar. And I chose this watch for three reasons.
Vacheron Constantin: Timeless Design
00:48:02
Speaker
One, Vacheron's an extremely
00:48:06
Speaker
Incredible brand with with high value and a lot of value to be had by collectors as well and the other reasons I chose it is in fact the value and the price of the watch and to I think the dial is incredible and the layout is amazing these are interesting they are from what I remember this is a This is a movement that's based on the 920 JLC which was used in Nautilus
00:48:35
Speaker
Bacheron Overseas, as well as the Royal Oak. The calibers were never used by JLC, from my understanding is that they were actually commissioned by outside companies, so the licensing was theirs for them to use. But then you add perpetual onto it, and it's still ultra thin.
00:48:56
Speaker
For me, the watch is very much about the movement and the dial. I love, you know, I'm a case guy, of course, but for me, you look at that dial, it's very beautiful.
00:49:07
Speaker
The movement is very sophisticated as well, and it's ultra thin. A lot of the stuff that's comparable, I think comparisons are a 3940, which is maybe twice, three times as much. I would say if you were looking for a collector's grade one, put this in platinum, it's got kind of a little bit of substance to it in terms of the heft.
00:49:26
Speaker
I love the watch. It's cool. Also, the moon face is very nice. Again, would it be the watch that I would want to wear or buy and keep in my collection before a few other watches? Maybe not, but to somebody who really appreciates ultra thin watches, of course. Vacheron is also one of those watches that's
00:49:46
Speaker
they're slept on. And I think that people who love them, it's for good reason. I mean, I don't know when this watch was produced, but I have to imagine it was produced sometime between the 80s or early 2000s. And it's like one of those watches that maintains a good contemporary look. You look at it and you're like, it could be vintage. It could be, you know, neo-vintage. And it still fits in that realm of like, it's a good looking watch by today's standards.
00:50:14
Speaker
And again, just the value when you compare it to other perpetual calendars of that quality and of that grade, it's like a no-brainer. Do you have a Vacheron, Cameron? I don't. A long time ago, I almost bought a couple of the vintage, probably 80s, just time only, white gold, really simple options, but I've always wanted to add one to my collection. I really fell in love with the new 35 millimeter overseas.
00:50:44
Speaker
And I was lucky enough to actually just get offered one at retail, but it was the rose gold version and it's just the price is still crazy. And so that's actually the first watch I've ever gotten offered at retail from an AD, which is funny. They know that they need someone like you on their team.
00:51:04
Speaker
I would love modern wise, I would love the steel 35 millimeter new overseas. I just think that's such a fun everyday watch for somebody. You can swap it out between all the different bands, which is really interesting. And vintage wise, I absolutely love this perpetual. I think it's stunning.
00:51:22
Speaker
Interestingly, on the Vacheron overseas, those quick release systems on the straps and bracelets, I want to say that that was originally the technology on those Cartier Roadsters from the early 2000s, where they had those kind of push systems where you could release it and put on a bracelet or a rubber strap or a leather strap. And then it slowly kind of trickled out into who had it first. I think it was IWC got it in one of their watches.
00:51:52
Speaker
And then I think it also went into Vacheron. I'm trying to remember what the IWC might have been though, but it's kind of like, it's kind of slowly been allowed to flow through the other Richemont brands, but those quick release systems on them are pretty cool. Yeah, I absolutely love it. You have me here championing modern watches. I don't know what's going on.
00:52:17
Speaker
Love it. Well, on that note, we should wrap it up before I do anything else too crazy to make you rethink your whole collection. We should wrap it up with the collector's dream rundown. You can answer these questions, Charlie, based on any of your collections, books, watches, ephemera. You can answer these questions based on a chair that you love from your dad's collection, however you see fit. Nice. All right. What's the one that got away? There was a 5513 Submariner.
00:52:46
Speaker
earlier on this year that I was kind of strategizing with Eric.
Regret over Missed Rolex 5513 Submariner
00:52:51
Speaker
on and thinking whether I needed to get it, but it was super, super crisp, beautiful case. It had kind of like a ghosted bezel. It didn't have any patina. It was very kind of like white accents on the dial and the loom. I don't know what it was about it. I loved that watch. A lot of it was the case. I know what it was and I loved it. Maybe it'll come back to me one day.
00:53:17
Speaker
You can't have them all so i'm not gonna lose sleep over it was the one that got away for you though that's why i wanna know. Oh man i would actually say a lot of watches that.
00:53:29
Speaker
Like I've said this before, I wish I would have gotten in earlier with a brand like Cartier to do some special order stuff. Not that there's not time now, but I wish I would have done this a long time ago before prices had skyrocketed and before the entry to, you know, the Barrett entry was a lot higher. I think that that kind of got away, at least for the time being. A watch that got away was
00:53:56
Speaker
There was a great deal on a Patek Aquanaut 5167R. This was like a year or two ago, maybe a year and a half ago, and the prices have just skyrocketed on them. That's just a modern watch that I love.
00:54:11
Speaker
I had a yellow gold Cartier Vasculant that was just such a great story of how I acquired it and the prices on them skyrocketed and I let it go to move into other pieces that I still have. So I'm happy about that, but I do miss that watch a little bit. So I would say those probably got away. Hopefully you're not losing too much sleep over them. It was all in good taste, so at least for me.
00:54:36
Speaker
All right, how about the on-deck circle? I think I know the answer to this based on an auction you have going on today, but what's next for you in collecting? What do you have your eye on? You know, I'm pretty happy right now. I just got a 1675 with pointed crown guards. I love that watch. Been wearing that a lot and I have my Tudor and I have a Memovox. You know, hopefully I'll find a way to justify getting another Memovox in the next 12 hours, but we'll see if it
00:55:05
Speaker
if fate works out. I think I'm pretty happy right now. If things evolve, then maybe I'll be sitting pretty and I'll have a few other watches, but I think right now I'm not gonna get too excited and say that I need another one just yet.
00:55:24
Speaker
How about the unobtainable? So this could be in a private collection that you know, this could be in a museum, this could be a one of one, just something that is truly unobtainable, even if there was all the money in the world, because it's just locked up.
00:55:40
Speaker
Right off the top of my head, I think I'd like one of those Cartier crystal clocks from the 1920s or something super decadent that JB, uh, you know, John, John, uh, John Pierre Point Morgan would wear, uh, would have in his office. Maybe, uh, maybe a tonk Auguste just so I could give it to you. I love that. I would love to also get a copy of the JP Morgan watch book, I think.
00:56:09
Speaker
Arrow has a copy of that and just what a cool thing I've got. I don't know if you've been to the Museum of his library.
00:56:16
Speaker
in New York. It's awesome. Did you get to see the book? No, I didn't. It was because I didn't realize that they could pull things down for you from the library for you to see. Next time I go, I'm going to have them do that. Yeah, I emailed them and they said that they would, if I wanted to book appointment times and I have to make my way up there with you and we'll have to take a bunch of photos of each page and
00:56:43
Speaker
and romanticize over everything in there. He had some pretty crazy stuff. He was a collector of everything. I mean, silverware, to chairs, to furniture, to paintings. He was kind of a big time collector. Yeah, for sure. Maybe we can take photos and then put it back into print just for our sake.
00:57:01
Speaker
Let's do a photo report. Deal. This is the page one rewrite. If you could collect anything besides watches and books and ephemera, money, no object, what would it be? Land. Smart. I would have a lot of land and probably purpose it some
00:57:25
Speaker
some philanthropic way. If there was money was not an object, that'd probably be a smart move from me. You're a smart man. The goat. So who do you look up to in the collecting world?
00:57:38
Speaker
Eric Wind. He's checked all the boxes in terms of he's done a lot of research. He's written. He's helped countless people in collecting. He's got an incredible collection himself. He looks at stuff in terms of he's got a good focus.
00:57:57
Speaker
And he has good advice a lot of times when it comes to collecting on stuff. Some people are very anxious and they say, I need to get this. And he'll kind of sit them down and kind of walk through it with them and tell them, do you need this? Is this something that's necessary when you've got this, this, and this, and this? Are you going to wear these things still? Is it smart for you to be buying this? Or he'll be supportive of the, I think that that's one of the boxes you haven't checked in terms of collecting. I think that from a
00:58:26
Speaker
From somebody who mentor-wise, Eric is one of the guys that I look up to right after Cameron Rustran. Well, he's definitely been very gracious to me for advice and all that sort of stuff. So I definitely agree with you there. The hunt or the ownership? You know, I was thinking about that. You sent me this questionnaire and I love the hunt, but I like owning it too.
00:58:54
Speaker
There's something about when you have a nice watch and you kind of spent a lot of time thinking about it and you get to wear it. Like I was wearing my GMT 1675 in the pool the other day.
00:59:07
Speaker
I just like the ownership of it. I think that's a really special thing when you get those moments where you look at the watch and you're excited and you don't need other things to fulfill you. It's like, I've got this one watch, I'm happy with it. So that's a special thing. I think the ownership is big, not to sound too materialistic, but it's nice to have a good watch.
00:59:28
Speaker
The hunt is something that you, it's fun to lose sleep and think about stuff anxiously and be miserable over something that gets away, but I like the acquisition of it. I think it's fun when it lands on your wrist and it's secured.
00:59:45
Speaker
The debts are paid and you're good to go. You're crying happy tears. What are you like more, the hunt or the ownership? I'm with you. It's always a 50-50 battle. Obviously, there's the scenarios that happen often, I think early on with collecting when you're just buying a lot because you think you want it or you think you're interested and then you get it and you're like, yeah. In those instances, the hunt is always more fun than the ownership because those things come and go once you own them.
01:00:15
Speaker
I'm at a point now in collecting where I'm just trying to be very focused and with purpose and everything that I do and everything that I buy and add to the collection. There's still things that come and go once in a while, but in most scenarios, I would say it's a 50-50. I'm not after currently anything that's super rare that would make the hunt more exciting than the ownership. I think that also plays a factor if there's something super difficult that you're trying to find.
01:00:45
Speaker
some of the things I want are as easy as sending a text message, right? So the hunt for that is less fun as the ownership. So I think it's situational for sure. Yeah, 100%. All right, Charlie, most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? I would say yes, I think so. I would have to agree.
01:01:09
Speaker
Love it, Charlie. Thank you so much for coming on today. It's always good to chat with you. It was nice to see you in New York a few weeks ago, and hopefully I'll make my way out to Florida so we can get together and look at some stuff that's sitting in the office there. Thank you so much, Cameron. It was an honor. You got it, man. Take care. All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.