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Romaine Lettuce Outbreaks
31 Plays5 years ago
In this episode, you'll hear from Jordan DeVries, a Produce Safety Technician with Newaygo Conservation District, Ben Phillips, an MSU Extension Educator in the east central part of Michigan, and Beth Van Dyk, the food safety manager for Van Dyk farms. They discuss the romaine lettuce outbreaks from 2018 and 2019, and Beth speaks up about how these outbreaks have affected leafy greens growers in Michigan.
Funding for this podcast was made possible in part by the Food and Drug Administration through grant PAR-16-137. The views expressed in the posted materials do not necessarily reflect the official policies of the Department of Health and Human Services, nor does any mention of trade names, commercial practices or organization imply endorsement by the United States Government.
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Transcript
Introduction to Agri-Food Safety Produce Bytes
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Agri-Food Safety Produce Bytes podcast, where we discuss all things produce safety and dive into the rules and regulations surrounding the Food Safety Modernization Act Produce Safety Rule.
Meet the Experts: Jordan, Ben, and Beth
00:00:14
Speaker
Hi, this is Jordan DeVries. I'm a produce safety technician with Michigan Conservation Districts. I work on the west central side of the state of Newaygo Conservation District. I'm Ben Phillips. I work with Michigan State University Extension. I'm an extension educator that works with vegetable growers in the east central part of Michigan. I'm Beth Van Dyke from Van Dyke Farms. I've been doing food safety here on our family farm for over eight years.
Lettuce Outbreaks: Are Our Practices Safe?
00:00:40
Speaker
And we're going to be talking today about the 2018 and 2019 romaine lettuce outbreaks and how those affect leafy greens growers here in Michigan. Beth, what goes through your mind when an outbreak linked to a crop that you grow occurs? I guess because I'm pretty confident that we are doing the food safety practices needed. I truly don't get alarmed, but yet at the same time, knowing that there is that
00:01:07
Speaker
potential, a little bit of risk, knowing that some people could get sick, a part of me does worry.
From Resistance to Embracing Safety
00:01:16
Speaker
But overall, because of our food safety practice, I'm pretty much at peace with that we are probably not a part of it. Sounds like it's assuring not only to have a plan, but then also any documentation that you've filed that plan throughout the growing cycle of your crop.
00:01:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah, we have so many documents we have.
00:01:40
Speaker
it's become a lifestyle here. And that's kind of what we had to get at peace with. When this food safety started years ago, we kind of had a different attitude. It was, we did it. We were really frustrated thinking people are telling us what to do. We didn't like it. We did it kind of with a bad attitude. And now it's to the point where we've embraced it and accepted, this is our lifestyle. So our attitude has changed over time.
Teamwork and Support in Food Safety
00:02:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. OK. It's gotten better. It was great support. I tell you what, our customers are great support when they come into our audits, our preseason audits and pre-harvest audits, phone calls. They're right there. We also we also thought they were against us. We thought they would come and audit us to shut us down, realizing they're like, no, we need you. What do you need from us? They're on our side.
00:02:38
Speaker
And I think as a grower, I think if growers would realize people aren't going after us, they need us, they need our product, and this is what we need to do in order for our family to sell our product to them so we can have a family business and our employees can have a job. So it's all about, it's kind of a team mentality.
Beyond Water: Exploring Outbreak Causes
00:03:03
Speaker
And some of these customers actually, we have a close friendship with.
00:03:08
Speaker
because we see them. I mean it's more the business with some of them. Fantastic. So we know that the most recent outbreaks have been most likely from a water source and or maybe multiple water sources but the water was messed up. There was something in it. No good and then the produce got it and it went all over the place. But
00:03:33
Speaker
And there's a lot of focus on handling that water and changing water practices. But, so FSMA is a multi-prong rule. It's not just got a water component. And then also the third party food safety things like gaps and GFSI, they've got a lot more outside of just water. So what other reasons could an outbreak like this have, what other ways could it have been caused that had nothing to do with water? Do you have any, like what else could have been a problem?
00:04:03
Speaker
I can't speak specifically for Romaine, but when you look back to the 2006 spinach outbreak, a funny thing occurred in that the contaminated E. coli was actually traced to local cattle operations, but there were no cattle getting into those spinach fields.
00:04:21
Speaker
What you actually had were feral hogs that were eating dung or cow manure and then translocating that, bringing it into those spinach fields as they roamed around. And so you saw big efforts in there to reduce areas where those pigs could hide.
00:04:41
Speaker
in ravines and forests and things like that. So we actually saw a lot of riparian habitat being managed in result of trying to reduce the refuge areas for feral hogs around those spinach growing fields.
00:04:59
Speaker
And then how about the the cantaloupe case from a few years a few years back that that had Had to do with Harvard's points on our post harvest equipment, right? Yeah, that's right Yeah, so when we saw that that cantaloupe outbreak with Jensen farms in 2011 We saw a lot of use of other equipment and with the netting on the cantaloupe. It's not the same level of
Managing Microbial Risks in Farming
00:05:27
Speaker
a gross surface as things that that equipment may have been designed for. And so it was actually able to get more bacteria in the netting of the cantaloupe. Cantaloupe we also know is something that can absorb water if it's moving in a temperature gradient in a bath. And that may have allowed the listeria to translocate into the rind.
00:05:52
Speaker
Instead of being on the outside of the fruit there from the temperature differential Yeah, so it may have been one or both of those things in confluence that caused that but we certainly Were made more aware of the potential for The growth potential on the surface of the crop with that outbreak. Yeah, so
00:06:15
Speaker
Stuff moves on other things. It can move on pigs, it can move on poop, it can move on pieces of metal on equipment and brushes and stuff. Water always makes things worse, but there are other ways that these outbreaks happen. Yeah, that's right. Have there been any new regulations or audit policies that have come out of the most recent outbreaks? And you sort of started with this before we even started recording too.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, so there really hasn't been any new regulations. There's a lot of investigation going on, both with the Leafy Green Marketing Agreement in the states of California, Arizona, as well as, you know, federally, you know, the U.S. House wants to know what's going on with why isn't our food safe? This is 2020 in the United States of America. Why isn't our food at the level of expectation that our consumers and our buyers and everyone in society wants it to be?
00:07:09
Speaker
And I think that you have to go through those thought processes of it. We're still growing food outside, thankfully, in the 21st century.
Preventive Measures in Leafy Green Farming
00:07:24
Speaker
There are hazards that have to be considered, whether it's animals, both livestock and wild animals, domestic and wild animals. There's people involved in things. And then we've got water and water moves. We all know that.
00:07:40
Speaker
floods can potentially bring contamination sources in. That's why it's so important when doing a water system inspection to look at what are the potential watershed effects here? What's upstream from what's flowing onto the water that I'm using? That's really important to think about the proximity to animal operations, maybe even areas that are populated and have failing septic systems and things like that.
00:08:09
Speaker
to really have a wide-ranging sense for those microbial hazards and where they're at and what times of the year can bring them to the farm or the water sources that the farm is using. So not really any new regulations or even policies, but more attention is being asked to be put into these types of
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, if it's a regulation to think of, the leafy green marketing agreement is going to be requesting that those growers in California and Arizona do conduct a water treatment, be it chlorination or acidification.
00:08:49
Speaker
to the irrigation water so that then we don't have these potential contaminated source water source outbreaks occurring. It doesn't mean that that produce is safe just because it's receiving chlorinated or acidified water. You still have to go through those preventative practices of hygienic handling and working on hygienic design and the packing
00:09:16
Speaker
house environment, but trying to reduce water as the main carrier for these harmful bacteria is probably the most important step that leafy green growers can take.
Responding to Outbreak Pathogens
00:09:31
Speaker
So Beth, what comes to mind when an outbreak is announced for you, even if it's in the off season?
00:09:39
Speaker
Well, first of all, what kind of an outbreak? Is it water? Is it listeria or salmonella? Because those are the... Oh, really? Oh, yeah. We... You have a different reaction if it's salmonella versus... Well, you want to know what it is, yeah. Okay. Because it's different. Okay.
00:09:54
Speaker
different steps we take. You know, the listeria salmonella, we have deer fence out, we have frog fence around our water sources. Frog fence? We have to have frog fences up, yes, because we don't want frogs. And then our coolers, our cold storage, you know, we have to clean everything. This is for listeria or salmonella? Yep, and we have swab. We swab our harvest machines. We clean those. We do ATP swabbing.
00:10:22
Speaker
We swab our coolers. That basically goes to a lab for, like, genetic testing, right? Yep. So, I mean, it's, again, when you look at...
00:10:31
Speaker
And this is all from an outbreak happening somewhere else? Somewhere else. Oh yeah, this is what's required of us. I think it's tough when there's, you know, this idea of this microscopic organism out there that it's like a ghost. You can't see it. You don't know if it's there, if it's not there. I don't know if I can eat off this table or not. What have been the past practices that have been involved here? I get frustrated because I know
00:11:00
Speaker
It's laughable. It's the money we spend on food safety. And then when I go to a restaurant, I get really... I'm mad. I'm thinking we have to wear gloves, hair nets, beard nets, sleeves, aprons, and we're working outdoors.
00:11:23
Speaker
And you go to a restaurant and you see these waitresses with their hair flopping around swinging with the tray of food right here, right next to their head. And you see the counters, the tables.
00:11:36
Speaker
And I just want to say, if they only knew what we're doing, and then the farmer, we get hit the hardest. And so, Listeria... And you're so disconnected, too. So when there's an outbreak far, far away, you go through all these steps, even though it didn't occur here, but that's all just to...
00:11:55
Speaker
To make the system feel at peace,
Understanding Pathogens and Food Safety Science
00:11:58
Speaker
essentially. To make us feel at peace, yeah. So if it was something that would say not Listeria or not Salmonella, E. coli instead, how does that change your response? I wasn't aware of how different the response would be according to the pathogen.
00:12:12
Speaker
Well, you want to know what the outbreak is because that determines where you're going to look to figure out the problem. That makes sense? Yeah, I think it's important in this context for farmers to at least be versed in what
00:12:28
Speaker
you know, we can jokingly call conversational microbiology here, just knowing how to do a hazard analysis, what pathogens are associated with what sources. You're not really going to get listeria from any manure going out of your fields, but you could get toxic E. coli from that manure source. So understanding sources and pathways of how it's moved onto the farm, be it water or feral pigs, that certainly plays a role. And as a farmer,
00:12:58
Speaker
You got to understand my past is not in farming. I have no history with farming. I was a teacher and I married a farmer. This food safety industry came about because I'm married to Doug. I became his food safety person. So I'm very ignorant and I'm not a scientist. So like you said, if you can find somebody in your family farm,
00:13:22
Speaker
to get your mind around some of the science. Not that you have to become a scientist or knowledgeable, but I can hear Listeria and Salmonella and E. coli O157.
00:13:34
Speaker
and I know where it comes from, that's probably the extent. Then we turn to people that are the scientists. I'll call the lab. I'm calling you again. I don't understand this. Can you please tell me? I says, I'm so sorry, I feel dumb. But the lab will re-educate me and they empathize with me and they try to educate me. And that's a yearly thing. You don't have to become a scientist, but like he said, be knowledgeable.
00:14:02
Speaker
and foster those relationships with the folks at the lab or with folks with extension or conservation districts that are a little bit trained in this. We don't have the ability to think like a microbial organism, even though they say 90% of our bodies are by cell count or microbial.
00:14:24
Speaker
The idea here is to use science to interpret data and then use that data to make better decisions. Be comfortable with asking for help and reaching out.
Media's Role in Food Safety Perception
00:14:40
Speaker
You have to. When each of these outbreaks occurs, or let's say just the most recent ones, what's like the first phone call that you get?
00:14:51
Speaker
no matter what time of year it is. Do you get a call from a buyer immediately? Who knows that you also grow lettuce and you're part of the system? The most recent one we saw on Facebook, the news, emails, whatever. I subscribe to Food Safety and Doug and Dennis have their connections. But it's through the phones, cell phones, news, and we'll get an email if anybody wants any documentation. But it's all through the media.
00:15:21
Speaker
because you gotta remember, we've never been part, we've never had an outbreak, therefore we've never had a phone call, thankfully. Okay. So when there is an outbreak somewhere that gives me faith that there is somebody or a whole group of people who know through geography and business relationships that the outbreak does have a geographic focus
00:15:49
Speaker
And there's a seasonality to it. And so that you're not getting that call because you're either out of season or they just know because of the way business transactions work that none of your product was into that mix. So that gives me faith actually that they're not just calling because that would tell me that they're just blindly.
00:16:09
Speaker
just flailing. If it happened there and they know it's there and only there and it's spread from that point and it's not been in Michigan and Michigan is not even in season, if you get a panic call then that would be kind of frustrating to me. Right. Well, you got to realize now everything has a bar cold. Yeah. Everything. I mean, the problem is with this last one, it was a mix. And the sad thing of it is there was chicken in there too.
00:16:32
Speaker
So it seems like lettuce is, someone's always blamed. It's always the lettuce people. And I think that's what frustrates us.
Balancing Farming Risks
00:16:39
Speaker
You know, it could have, it was a mix. How can you decide from that mix? Even mixing cream can create its own. There's a whole other system. System of processing and metal. But even, even the mixing of the lettuce with the chicken can, I'm not a scientist, probably can create another disease. You know what I'm saying?
00:16:57
Speaker
You don't mix things like at home. You make something, you wait to the last minute to mix something like a salad because it creates a problem. So with this last outbreak, yes, lettuce was hit hard, but who's to really say it was the lettuce when it was a mixed situation? But we take the hit. They get the blame. So that's where we get frustrated.
00:17:27
Speaker
When you say take a hit, do you feel, I mean, aside from spending more for testing services and food safety reactionary responses, are you feeling the hit in any other way in terms of just lack of sales because of outbreaks?
00:17:41
Speaker
I hear people in the community or people end up saying, I'm not eating lettuce anymore. They're going to go to Cal or be there. They're not even because the media said, you know, the media's gospel instead of saying, like you do to your kids, settle down, relax. Again, I can't say enough of that. The last one was a mix. I think a core thematically, what we want to talk about is like you're growing outside. There are.
00:18:07
Speaker
There are microbial hazards out there, you can't do anything about it. We're never going to, well I don't want to say never, but it makes more sense to grow outside than inside in controlled environments. We know that water on hygienic workers, and in some cases if we're using
00:18:25
Speaker
the manures and other biological soil amendments, that those are the big heavy hitters of what's bringing contamination. At least when they go back and have done an outbreak investigation and they develop this environmental assessment, they see that those are the big heavy hitters of why our food is getting us sick when it comes to produce.
00:18:47
Speaker
And if we can control those, we can then start to insulate from these other things that are out there. But growing outside in an open air environment is going to inherently have risks. And the idea is not to eliminate all risks, but to reduce the big risks and then keep being mindful of what those small risks are.
Conclusion and Resources
00:19:08
Speaker
Thank you, Jordan, for coming over from the west side. And thank you, Beth, for hosting us in this really comfortable meeting space. It was great to hear all the things you're doing on the farm to keep their remains safe.
00:19:20
Speaker
Links or definitions to anything referenced in this episode are provided in our show notes, which can be accessed on the website at c-a-n-r dot m-s-u dot e-d-u slash agri-food underscore safety. You may also visit the Agri-Food Safety website for additional produce safety resources, trainings, and assistance offered by MSU Extension. Thank you to everyone for listening, and don't forget to tune in next month for another episode of our Produce Bites podcast.