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13. Victim of Love (1979) Album Review
22 Plays1 month ago
Dominic & Anthony put seven disco tracks under the spotlight, as they review Elton's thirteenth studio album; was Victim of Love simply born bad or will it inspire some warm love in a cold world? Only the Elton v Elton charts will reveal the true objective answer!
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Welcome to Elton v Elton: The Album Battle! This is the podcast where two pals (Anthony & Dominic) & Elton fans rage over which of Elton's albums we think is the best. We'll be keeping score as we go, as we delve into each of Elton's solo studio albums, discussing the tracks individually, the musicians involved, the album art, random trivia, cover versions & anything else in between!
We'd love to hear from you with your ratings, opinions and any other insights into Elton's work you have. Drop us an email via eltonveltonpod@gmail.com
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Thanks go to everyone involved in bringing Elton's work to the bigger stage, James Cook (http://www.jamescookcomedian.com/) & Paul Savage (https://www.instagram.com/savagecomics_/) who inspired the format of this show and Zapsplat.com for the SFX. Research for the show was done using songfacts.com, , eltonchords.com, https://www.eltonography.com/ and Elton’s autobiography 'Me'.
You can find Dominic on https://www.facebook.com/dominicberry/ and on his poetry website https://dominicberry.net/
You can find Anthony on two other podcasts: Enough of the Falafel (featuring the Vegan Week & Vegan Talk shows) and The Brambling Along Podcast
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Until next time it’s goodbye from Captain Dom-tastic & the Brown Dirt Ant-boy!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Elton vs Elton: The Album Battle'
00:00:00
Speaker
It is the 12th of October, 1979.
00:00:05
Speaker
Dominic Berry, that's me, is two months away from being born. Rapper's Delight has just become the first rap single to make the top 40. But how will Elton John's attempt at a disco record go down? It's time for Victim of Love.
00:00:27
Speaker
I am, of course, Dominic. And I am, of course, Anthony, and you are listening to Elton vs. Elton, the album battle.
Recap of 'A Single Man' Episode
00:00:52
Speaker
Welcome everyone, this is episode 13, lucky for some, we shall see, of the Elton vs Elton album battle, where two pals, me and Dominic, who love the music of Elton John, we rage over which of his albums we love best. So big props to anyone involved in bringing Elton's music to the big stage and to our lesser known people that we are Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:25
Speaker
previous solo studio albums that ah were released by elton before this one chronologically and there's a little trailer podcast as well if you want to listen to those before this one yeah Now, every episode we have a trivia teaser. And last episode we asked you Clive Franks, known for playing bass guitar.
00:01:51
Speaker
What is his primary job? in the Elton John band because it's not playing bass. And the answer is sound engineer or any kind of variation on that. i'm not actually 100% sure which came first, Dominic, but ah definitely when you sort of look at Clive Franks' biography and things like that, he's primarily a ah soundy person who happens to play bass.
1979: A Year of Change
00:02:16
Speaker
rather than the other way around so that's pretty cool isn't it that was our teaser trivia question at the end of our previous episode where we reviewed a single man that was elton's studio album that came out in october 1978 it did all right in the charts i'd be happy with a number eight in the yeah uk album or a number 15 in the us but relative to other elton albums in the 70s it didn't do as well You might know the song Song for Guy. You might know the song Part-Time Love, and both of those were on the album, as well as a few others
00:02:59
Speaker
But we like to go back in time and say a little bit about the the global context of what's going on when these albums coming out. And we're we're a year further down the line now, Dominic, aren't we? We are indeed. 1979 on May the 4th, Margaret Thatcher became the first female prime minister of the UK.
Elton John's 1979: Health and the USSR Tour
00:03:17
Speaker
And anyone who's listened to any of my poems know that I've written a lot about Margaret Thatcher. Short version, not a fan. What I am a fan of, though, is the Sony Walkman. Oh, my memories of listening to cassettes, including Elton John cassettes. Well, the Sony Walkman came out in 1979 on July the 1st. That's when it was released in Japan. And as previously mentioned, Rapper's Delight is a significant record. It was originally released on September 16th and was indeed the first top 40 rap single. When this album was released, the UK number one was The Police with Message in a Bottle and the US s number one was Michael Jackson. Don't stop till you get enough.
00:04:04
Speaker
you have to You have to say it like that, don't you? Don't stop until you achieve it. Enough. Indeed. So that was the global and the musical context. and In terms of Elton's life at the time, he does in his autobiography called Me, he does talk. about this album and the context of producing it.
The Making of 'Victim of Love'
00:04:26
Speaker
But just like in a personal sense, we we've said in previous shows, the last few years of his life in the mid to late 70s, his health, his workload, work-life balance is not optimal at at this stage. And indeed in September, 1979, he suddenly collapsed during a performance on stage. Ironically, or rather fittingly enough, it was a performance of Better Off Dead. Suffering from flu and exhaustion, he was carried off stage, given oxygen, but then in true Elton fashion, he returns to finish the set. I've been doing ah a first aid course all day today, and I think that would definitely be going against the advice of medical professionals. He did also do something that was very unusual,
00:05:10
Speaker
at the time, in May of 1979, he became one of the first Western pop stars to tour the USSR. Again, he mentions this in his autobiography.
Contributing Musicians on 'Victim of Love'
00:05:21
Speaker
He speculates that this was on the leader and lead in lead-in to the Moscow Olympics the following year, and maybe sort of the regime in the USSR being seen as more tolerant and or accepting of of different cultures and and and things like that might have been on their agenda. So yeah he He went there with his mum and his stepfather, toured the Kremlin with them. They did, predictably, the USSR authorities this year is, and they did censor elements of his visit. Interpreters, for example, omitted mentions of his sexual preference during a press conference.
00:06:00
Speaker
Naughty, naughty. Let's start talking a bit more about the album itself, Dominic. musically this is a very different album in in many different ways primarily because when we've got elton's name it just says next to it vocals yeah yeah no piano playing and not really any piano there is uh keyboards uh from roy davis There's a fair bit of guitar, including um Toto of Rosanna and Africa
Elton's Disappointment with 'Victim of Love'
00:06:36
Speaker
songs. Steve Lukather. Am I saying his name correctly, Anthony? Do we reckon that's how we say Who knows? Who knows, yes. Steve will know. He's the guitarist on tracks two and three. um We've got lots of...
00:06:50
Speaker
Backing vocals from various women. Also the yeah pop singer Michael McDonald. um I have much to say about the backing vocals on this album, which you'll hear in a little bit.
00:07:01
Speaker
And yeah, a saxophone from Lenny Pickett on Johnny DeGood. No Gus Dudgeon. This is ah produced by someone else whose name I'm going to mispronounce. Pete Bellott.
00:07:14
Speaker
Indeed. Indeed. Now, some folk who are well into Elton's stuff already, and that's what's drawn you to our podcast, will know that this is a very different album in many ways. But some of you might not know that indeed. And again, he mentions this in his autobiography. Effectively, disco is a really big thing. at the time and a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon and Elton himself has said that this was him jumping on the bandwagon. He didn't put a huge amount of effort into this album. He was just just doing the vocals on it basically, but it's all released under his name. He was really cross about the fact that Song For Guy had not been released in the US
00:08:00
Speaker
by the record label that he was signed to at the time. And so when the opportunity came to very quickly be part of this album, this Victim of Love disco album that's been basically produced by somebody else and prepared by somebody else, he has said retrospectively, well,
00:08:17
Speaker
I just said, yeah, okay, we'll do that. We'll get that out. And then I fulfilled my obligation to that record company.
Chart Performance and Technical Issues
00:08:23
Speaker
And then I can sign with a different one and produce albums in a different way. So in a sense, ah an understandable, but also a cynical move, which he he himself has said, you know, it wasn't wasn't the best move. It's just under 36 minutes long. So again, it's, it's, it's,
00:08:39
Speaker
different to other albums we've had some double albums in goodbye yellow brick road and blue moves you know hours long whereas this one's barely half an hour long and as you might guess and as dominic said no members of the existing elton john band involved at all which is is very unique didn't really happen again until 2010 when he was collaborating with leon russell In terms of how well it performed, I mean, it did chart in in several countries. So number 18 in Norway, number 20 in Australia, the 41, the number which is the third lowest
00:09:21
Speaker
Elton album performance to date. There were a couple that didn't do so well that we haven't spoken about yet. He didn't do much promotion for the album at all, didn't really do at all to do with it either. And in terms of how well it's thought of, it's perhaps epitomized by the fact that when it was released as a CD in the 1980s, the track breaks were incorrect. So if you think of a CD player, it will tell you when you're on track two, track three, track four. They weren't synced up. They were about 45 seconds out in some places, which are perhaps says something about certainly the sound engineer's ah esteem of
Critique of 'Johnny B. Goode' Cover
00:09:59
Speaker
the album. But we're going talk about what we think about this album, aren't we, Dominic? we We normally come together for these recordings and we we wax lyrical about how much we love something or or we might say, oh I'm not such a fan of this one. But this this is a divisive album. do Do you have any personal sentiments coming into this one? I did not know the music. I did know it by reputation when I was a lad and I've read so many online rankings of Elton John albums and this is usually last place. So I went in really determined to like it, really, really determined to be contrary as is my way. And I do want to point out that, um, One song, because it's not on any album that we've not really paused to discuss, is the superb Philadelphia Freedom, which I would argue, if not a disco song, certainly has a disco influence and few would argue that Philadelphia Freedom isn't an absolute banger. So we know that Elton has it in him to do a bit of the old disco. And and I love, I love, I love some disco. I really do. I love the cooler end of disco. I like the kind of disco that's a little bit, a bit sultry, a little bit sexy, a little bit, a bit less sort of um cheesy, you know. So I am a, a,
00:11:28
Speaker
a fan of disco and I've, you know, i love early Madonna from the early 80s. I went into this really wanting to like it. Whether I do or not, we shall come to. Were you aware of this record, Anthony, before that you and I coming together to make this show?
00:11:47
Speaker
No, I wasn't at all. Actually, I wasn't at all. And, um, I started listening to it without knowing that he hadn't written any of it. He hadn't, you know, produced any of it. It is, it's basically a karaoke job. as as far as I can tell. And I have to say that did change how I felt about it. I was more sympathetic until I found that out. And then that has made me a bit more cynical about it afterwards, which is interesting, isn't it? Because all art appreciation is subjective, isn't it? But um I wonder whether we should start talking about details and rather than broad brushstrokes, because it's ah otherwise we're just sort of saying, oh, I'm not so sure about We always start off with the album art. He's not looking very happy, is he, Elton? He's got on um got some interesting sort of red and blue effects on on the on the typeface at the top. What do you make of this one, Dominic? I think it is not his worst album cover.
00:12:50
Speaker
It's better than Honky Chateau. do think it's better than Honky Chateau, actually. um the The artwork, not the the music. um I think it looks a bit budget. I think it looks a bit budget, which is a shame, you know. yeah i think that, yeah, the font is a little bit, you know, the scribble over the writing, you know. it's What do you reckon? I don't know. So ah I'm going to make a prediction here. I'm going to go on a slight digression. Stick with me, listeners.
00:13:18
Speaker
So about 10 years ago, I was working at a school and they did a job lot of driving tests for us for these big vehicles that we had, sort of like people carrier things. But the school said you have to do a test. in this vehicle. And I was booked in for a test. I'd never been in the vehicle before and I stalled it several times. And basically ah the the test had to be aborted after like five minutes. I could drive a normal car, but I completely failed it in this big people carrier. never driven anything like it before. And the ah the examiner it at the end said to me, well, wasn't your best day, was it? But i tell you what, you know, before the test started, I asked you to lift up the bonnet and and point out where the oil thingy was. And you shut the bonnet better than anyone else today. And I feel like we're going to be picking out things like this.
00:14:07
Speaker
for for um for victim of love we're gonna say well do you know what it's it's got quite a good typeface actually and uh you know i i i feel like that's what i'm gonna be doing just trying to find something something nice to say about it yes it's better than the honky chateau album art that's what i think that's that's my positive that's my positive we should start talking about the tracks that the
00:14:47
Speaker
I'm gonna lead in with a false fact here. Track one. is listed as number seven in Rolling Stone's 500 greatest songs of all time, except that was the 1958 original by Chuck Berry, not the 1979 remake by by Elton John. it's ah It's eight minutes long, Dominic.
00:15:11
Speaker
It's a long one. it's It's got a bit of a boogie and a bit of a funk to it, a bit slower than the original. What do you think? is it is it Does it stand up to the yeah to the almighty reputation and aura of the original Johnny B. Goode?
00:15:28
Speaker
No. and So i i you you said that you're going to be searching for scraps to praise um for this. and i genuinely have got genuine...
00:15:40
Speaker
praise for much of this record and some people think the opening song is the strongest one on it. I despise this. I am such a fan of the original. I really love 1950s rock and roll in general. um I think this song actually gets better.
00:16:05
Speaker
um as it as it goes on. that The saxophone is good. You know, there's a saxophonist that's unique to this record. I get so naff. This is really the naff end of disco. And to take a song that's as, you know, raucous and raunchy and and and powerful and And, you know, even though it's not a romantic song, you know, Chuck Berry's got an inherent sexual energy to everything he does. And this is the worst kind of disco. And to choose this song, um I think it's an awful start. And because the songs are all linked together in one long mega mix, I think it sours the entire record. I said something when we were reviewing Blue Moves.
00:16:51
Speaker
I said that there are a lot of songs on Blue Moves that would sound better if they were not on the album Blue Moves. I very much feel this. I think there is, and I've done this, Anthony. This is my dedication to this show. I've taken certain songs and I've thought, give it some time and come back and just listen to this specific song. What do you think when you've not heard the atrocious songs Johnny B. Goode before it. What do you think of this? So, so yeah, i i ah you know, in the opposite view to so many people, I think this is by a country mile the worst track on the record, in my opinion. It's because of having the comparison to the original. But even without that, I just think it's it's got that naff sound that I don't think every track on this album is naff.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. it It sounds like a karaoke job, doesn't it? it's um it's It is a pale imitation of the original. And I think what's really nice about Chuck Berry's music is it is so raucous and so... And then each track is over after two and a half minutes. You know, it's short and sharp and bam!
00:17:59
Speaker
You know, whereas this goes on. And and it's far you know it's it's fine if you've got genuine musicians jamming and having a good time and it's it's sounding great, but that's not what's happening. here. I'd be surprised if all the musicians were in the same place playing this. you know out Elton wasn't. you know He's added the vocals in afterwards. Nah, it's a real shame. and I think, in a sense, the opening track epitomizes everything that is wrong with the album. Elton you know ah outton can
00:18:32
Speaker
play music and can compose music and write music that is as good as, as this, well, as good as the original, I should say, you know, whether it's rock and roll, whether it is disco, whatever you want to call it, whatever genre you want to put it in, but it's, but it's not this, is it? I know, I know, i know that the song I'm about to say was released years before this. And it's a bit of a different style and it's, you know, different writer. But imagine if track one was Philadelphia Freedom.
00:19:04
Speaker
Imagine that. Now, of course, all the reviews would be like, well, nothing's as good as Philadelphia Freedom. It goes downhill. But in previous shows, I've talked about the Temptations album Cloud Nine, which ah has got, you know, an amazing opening track. And in my view, the rest of the album coasts along and yet it gets all these acclaims being like one of the best albums ever and it's like for one song for one song and then there's like you know so yeah what a shame what a shame that this is track one I think um
00:19:41
Speaker
i think it's ah probably my least favourite Elton song thus far. Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's It's really poor, isn't it? and you You mentioned, Dominic, that this album is is kind of seamless in that it's is's almost presented as one continuous track.
00:19:57
Speaker
This has got the harshest cut between tracks one and two, if if you if you do listen to it. And it then goes into track two, Warm Love in a Cold World. I really like how this track starts.
00:20:11
Speaker
And then it goes into like like the the music is is got a nice feel to it. Like the way Elton's singing, he's singing quite an expressive way.
00:20:22
Speaker
Well, I think in the verse he is. Yes. This is what I was going to say. He starts off singing an expressive way, different, different lyric fit for each line. And you kind of wondering where it's. going to build up to and then again it starts to epitomise what the whole album becomes it just feels like a loop and and maybe if all we had to reference Elton for was disco music or or music where he's singing the same line over and over again and it's been sampled or what have you maybe I'd be less critical of it but when you're used to Elton having these carefully crafted lyrics from Bernie Taupin or Gary Osborne or whoever ah where there's a real direction to the narrative when that's what you're used to this kind of loop where it's just warm love cold world just over and over again oh goodness i I I switched off quite quickly actually which is a shame yeah I'm a massive fan of dance music so quite quite happy with minimal words and and you you know you take some of the the lines used on fat boy slim records they're really well chosen for their evocative connotations i wish that elton was singing on the chorus i think well i mean there isn't a chorus you know it's like it's the least melodic bit of the record the warm love
00:21:46
Speaker
Cold World. And again, some reviewers say that they think this is the best song on it. This is the best song on the album. And I really, really disagree. When we go through our scores, this is going to be getting my second lowest score on this after...
00:22:03
Speaker
i I think it's a really poor opening of... ah But I do agree with you say. I think that, you know, when it begins, your ears prick up and you think, OK, you know, so we've got that out the way. Now we're on to, you know, better ground. and And the tune of the verse isn't bad. And the words aren't terrible. But, yeah, it does itself no favours with its length and repetition. And if all Elton is doing on this record is singing, then let's have him singing.
00:22:35
Speaker
If that's all he's doing. If we don't have the amazing... I've spent today listening to Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player. I'll say to you before we started recording, that says something. That says something. Because usually, before we record these shows, I give one last listen to the recording question. I haven't day it's like let's put let's put Daniel back on you know let's put you know have mercy on the criminal back on and hearing the piano work on that stunning stunning stunning as is well documented so if we don't have that if all we've got is Elton's voice and Elton has an amazing voice you know but we're not having we're not even having his voice we've got very dominant female backing vocals take the lead and yeah not for me
00:23:21
Speaker
Yeah, ah I do like to put a crumb of comfort. There is a nice electric guitar refrain in there that's got a do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do, which has got a nice nice little funk to it. The slap bass, for me, it sounds like it's trying to be Mark King, which it can't be because Mark King and Level 42 aren't doing their thing yet, but it's it's just a caricature of a slap bass. I think it's way too much, way too much. So yeah, ah need to try harder. I think, on that one. What do we think of track three?
00:23:55
Speaker
Born Bad. Dominic, you need to start because otherwise I'm just going to get us off to a really miserable third track here. I've not got nice things to say about this. What about you? How interesting because, I mean, I've got a privilege that Anthony doesn't have is that I've had ah a sneak peek at Anthony's scores and I did see that this gets a lower score. um I think this is the best so far.
00:24:19
Speaker
It's one of my least favourite of the record. It is one of my least favourite. But I think of the three, I think it's the best so far. I think it is... What do you like about it? Well, I'll say what I don't like about it first. I think that it is very similar to Warm Love, Cold World. i think it is very similar. And again, sequencing-wise, to have these two songs next to each other when they're so similar... does the record no favours because the songs are long and I can imagine a lot of people turning up and in my subjective view, i think there's better stuff to come. i think there's better stuff to come.
00:24:57
Speaker
I really like the middle eight of this. I really like the guitar kind of quite near the end. And I think a lot of these songs... You know, there are people playing on them who are doing their best and doing well. And I feel for them because I know what it's like to have been part of large arts projects where the main players aren't really that bothered. I'm like, but this is my opportunity. And I'm really giving it like 110%. And I think that might be the case here because a lot of these songs have got quite good performance.
00:25:32
Speaker
middle eights if you bear with the long tracks to near the end i mean even johnny b good has got the saxophone on it so i i yeah and i don't think the tune is that great i quite like the words really i do i really know yeah that that for me is the worst it you I think that the the dearth of any kind of melody is just unforgivable if all you've got Elton for is to sing like you say give him a bloody tune for goodness sake but for me the sentiment of the lyrics just just for me personally I've
00:26:10
Speaker
I really despise it in the same way that I would despise a song that's glorifying substance misuse or domestic violence. so i'm I'm not equating those two things, but to to have a song that's saying I was born bad. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm just an awful person. I can't change. Oh, goodness me. That's anathema to me, Dominic. Turn it off. I'd censor that in a heartbeat if I could.
00:26:35
Speaker
what horrible what horrible sentiment i guess well how can i defend this i guess i take it as a character piece so sometimes in some of the bernie torpinn lyrics it's a bit of a caricature like sometimes it's not it's not genuinely a first person narrative it's not really the um you know, the character thinks... If this was a Bernie Taupin lyric, he he would be saying that someone else was born bad and, and you know, he he would be attacking them, wouldn't he? So at least it's not doing that. I i like it because i believe that this is a character. I don't think that this is a caricature. So I like it because... mean, I don't love it I don't love it, but I do like it because...
00:27:22
Speaker
I can believe on just surface level that this is someone saying, yeah, you know, ah a horrible person. I was born bad and I'm quite proud of it. And I think that, you know, i can imagine such a character existing in the 1970s discos. And, um you know,
00:27:41
Speaker
i A little bit like when I really praised the lyric ugly ah by Bernie Taupin and was like, well, you can view it in this way. But actually, I don't think Bernie Taupin did mean it in the way. I'm not saying that this was the intent with the lyric. But um yeah, I just see we're in a disco and there's loads of different characters. And this is someone who is really proud of being, a you know, a piece of work, you know, and I think that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Conversation fodder, perhaps. But no, I wouldn't i wouldn't want anyone that I cared about to to listen to this for fear that they ah absorb it themselves. And musically, it's rubbish. It's not...
00:28:27
Speaker
It is musically rubbish, but it's not social commentary. I think that, um you know, that's where I struggle when Bernie Taupin has like been like, oh, look at this um unpleasant woman doing things for which I judge her. It's not that. It's like, so if the lyric was, he was born bad or she was born bad, I would share everything you say. It's the pronoun that for me, and And I think it's a horrible sentiment. But as I've often said, I'm quite up for horrible songs. And I'd rather that than just um I love you. You're so lovely. You know, my ears always prick up when just something's about something a little bit, a little. You know, the unrepentant prudence.
00:29:13
Speaker
pride in being nasty i'm like oh that for me that's an interesting thing to write about but just to repeat myself i would like it less if it was if it was third person if it was finger pointing like look at her she was born bad yeah yeah no that does make sense that does make sense We're moving on to track four, where we've been decrying Elton's lack of an opportunity to flex his vocal muscles. The very first line on Thunder in the Night, he really goes for it with a falsetto. And yeah, he's got something to sing about now, Thunder in the Night. think Things are picking up slightly. Yeah, it really is. i think the start of this is great. If this was track one, i wouldn't be saying, oh, this is the best record ever. But I'd be interested because...
00:30:01
Speaker
He sings it well. Really good vocals. Yeah, there are maybe, you know, women on the chorus more than I would like. I prefer this song to the song Bite Your Lip, Get Up and Dance.
00:30:16
Speaker
I would choose this over the much celebrated by some Blue Moves album, which, you know, i i think that this is dancey. This is the better end of disco It suffers in the way that youve you've already highlighted, though, Dominic, in the fact that if this album is one continuous doo-doo-doo. You know, if if this is picking up from Born Bad and it goes straight into it, it does become harder to kind of separate it out from, in my opinion, the dross that's come before. I mean, I still think there's much that could be improved on Thunder in the Night. The chorus is incredibly repetitive, like vocally and and lyrically and and everything like that. But yeah, if this was an isolated track on a previous album, probably...
00:31:08
Speaker
it it would be a lot easier to look at it favourably. I still find it really hard to to separate there. Do you know what? I've not realised until just now.
00:31:19
Speaker
I've not considered that this album would have had an A-side and a B-side. So actually... this was track one of Psy 2 on the original 1979 release. So yeah, I would just put a great big pen scratch to all of Psy Day and never listen to it again. Honestly, despite my defence of Born Bad, I'd be happy to never listen to those first three songs ever again. And yeah, I think of the four songs that have got left. Um, and I can't believe Anthony, how we're racing through this. Anthony did say, do we have enough material? Yeah. And seems like, do we have enough material to do a whole show on a victim of love? I'm like, yeah, I'll have loads to say, but, um, Yeah, just scrap the first three songs. And I think this one, I do like it. I think it's the weakest song of Side B as well. i think i think I do quite like the thunder in the night. I do think it's got a little bit of, ah it's not Chuck Berry levels of oomph, but it's got a little bit of oomph to it. um
00:32:32
Speaker
It sounds similar to sounds that... we will see in some of Elton's 80s albums. Like, it even in a couple albums' time, The Fox, um I mean, that that kind of it's got that minor key to it, Thunder in the Night. It feels quite sinister, and like there's danger, and ro ah it's it's got that going for it. And yeah, I will say, if it was on a different album, and and ah i I am clouded by the fact there's none of the band here, like, that that there's...
00:33:03
Speaker
it just feels like a karaoke job. Elton's just turned up and, and, you know, used his clout to, to sell a few of a record, not many, but if, for me, part of what I enjoy about art is thinking about the person that's,
00:33:18
Speaker
that's created it and how it's come about and what's the inspiration for it. And that this, we know retrospectively that this was done so cynically. I do find it hard to enjoy. If if it was an absolute masterpiece, I think I still could enjoy it. But as Elson himself says about this, you know, if you're going into something with this cynicism, it it does come out in the music or or whatever other art form we're talking about. That said, track five.
00:33:47
Speaker
It's my favourite of the album. Spotlight, it's it's ah in a major key. Perhaps it it helps because it's following thunder in the night, but it's lively. We've got some very loud, synthetic or or authentic disco claps in there. And yeah, it's got a nice nice little word jingle to it, I i think. Dominic, what do you think of Spotlight? Or should I say Spotlight? Yeah, I like the hand claps. I like his singing. I think that he sings it really well. So, like, I keep saying I like disco. I like the single versions of disco. I can remember going out and buying albums by Chic and Sister Sledge and being really disappointed at the length compared to the single edits. Like, I don't know.
00:34:36
Speaker
For me, know, I'm a child of the night is i like Chemical Brothers and Prodigy. And i'm quite up for the progression of those repetitive beats. They feel like they're going somewhere. But chic, it's not for me when it goes on and on and on. And with Spotlight, what I would do for a three minute long version of Spotlight, because there's a lot in Spotlight that would be great. But it's it's one of the longer ones, isn't it, Spotlight? And that's, um you know,
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's um it feels like it's eight and a half minutes. you i it's like it's just It's just a shame you know if they cut it off a little bit early. Because ah you know a lot of the people who did successfully embrace it, I mean, if you look at the Bee Gees and you know how how brilliant disco was for them, how transformative with you know Staying Alive. so it was pop music.
00:35:37
Speaker
disco it was it was It was pop song. It was that kind of immediacy that the they captured. And I would have loved that side of disco to be embraced buy by Elton.
00:35:52
Speaker
yeah and I would say as well that that the fact we've we said about a few times that it's it's sort of one continuous track in terms of like the drum beat and there's there's not silence between the tracks or what have you. I think there's ways that you could do that where it didn't just feel like a Yamaha keyboard demo or something like that. But I think it just feels so relentless. It's just the same beat over and over again. There's no real variation in the drums or the bass or the or the general sound. Like i think maybe Thunder in the Night and Spotlight are the only two that that really have a distinctive noise. Everything else just kind of sounds the same. as well and so when you are going from one track into another it it just feels like a bit of a slog rather than surely disco should be you know a party it should feel really really positive but nonetheless I i would say if if I had to listen to a victim of love song you know in my future Elton listening career
00:36:55
Speaker
um Spotlight would be the one that I would choose. It's my third favourite on this album, Spotlight. I prefer both of the songs that follow to Spotlight. that That's my view. I do like Spotlight. mean, what you just described as disco, shouldn't it get you out your seats? I don't think that Chic does. I don't think, you know... And again, like, you know, Nile Rodgers, when he was creating those songs, he really wanted it to be about the groove. And, you know, he's been on record saying that he deliberately, with the exception of Sister Sledge, he deliberately chose vocalists who weren't amazing singers because he wanted it to all be about the rhythm. And he wanted, you know, people to be able to sing along without being too challenged by it.
00:37:39
Speaker
But... you know When you do get something as wonderful as we are family and all that, it's it's amazing. and And we know that Elton's got that in him. so And we see we see flickers of it in Victim of Love. We see flickers of it. I'm i'm going to put a theory to you, Dominic.
00:37:59
Speaker
So track six is called Street Boogie. Oh, I've got so much to say about Street Boogie. So much to say. Go on. My equal least favourite song in Blue Moves was Boogie Pilgrim. And I think, you know, I was born in 1986. I think by the time my consciousness was becoming sort of critical and able to discern between, you know, things I naturally like and dislike, I think the word boogie had had its heyday. So I think my association with the word boogie is my 73 year old piano teacher saying, Oh, look, this song's called boogie, woogie blues. That's quite a fun one, isn't it? Or, you know, some 50 something year old white man wearing a Hawaii shirt who thinks he's cool by like, yeah, I'm going to have a boogie. And it's just like, man, you know, how interesting. Okay. That's so good. So my connection with the word boogie,
00:39:02
Speaker
Boogie is very different. My connection is very much linked to you know my sexuality as a gay man and whatnot. It's the David Bowie song, Starman, which I would argue can be possibly read out as somebody who's not living their full life, looking at somebody fantastical and wishing that they could be fantastical, wishing that they could be their authentic, true selves. And the words go, let the children use it. Let the children lose it. Let all the children boogie. Yes.
00:39:38
Speaker
And I love that. So that i think that, you know, and I've always loved it. I mean, Starman is... possibly my favourite David Bowie song and i never thought it was naff like he says it so earnestly like yeah let all the children boogie yeah let them let them Mr Man keeping the kids down let them. But it it is also possible to have something that's a really evocative word or phrase or concept be overused be co-opted by people who are not epitomising it and then it being really naff and it you know in the you know the word cool or something like that like it's so cringe when someone's like oh look i can be cool too and i just feel like that's what happens in boogie pilgrim and i feel like that's what happens here in street boogie i i'm not feeling it it's not making me want to boogie at all wow do you like boogie woogie bugle boy by the andrew sisters Well, yeah, because I feel that, you know? That feels authentic. Yeah, but then Christina Aguilera sampled it in 2007, you know? Like, she she she brought it to to the kids.
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah. I'm not feeling it. And and and just musically, like, if it's if it's street but Street Boogie, I need more than drum beat and Elton singing, which really, at the start of this track, there's not much... going on i mean we you've mentioned philadelphia freedom and that's a really good reference dominic for for what this album's missing because you've got these brilliant sweeping orchestral strings that that really brings that track to life like it doesn't need a drum machine or slap bass or something to make you boogie to philadelphia freedom it's that the musical composition is there whereas this it it just sounds like a drum machine and elton doing something on top there's
00:41:29
Speaker
there's barely even any bass playing at the start of it. that There's nothing to make you boogie is, is my opinion. Here's another record I've raved about. And in no way am I implying that street boogie by Elton John is as good as in dust. We trust by the chemical brothers. In no way, in no way am I linking the two. However,
00:41:54
Speaker
I'm always surprised by the praise that the debut record by Chemical Brothers gets because that's minimal. That's so minimal. And I adore it. I absolutely adore the minimism minimalism of that record. And I do with this song. I really do. I think it's one of Elton's better vocals on the album. I believe him. Those of us who didn't like Born Bad, I think the words are so positive. They're so upbeat. I mean, i think this could be like an early Madonna song, you know, in its... ah
00:42:30
Speaker
joyfulness and it's embracing of like yeah let's just dance everybody and i think that if this was a b-side i think it would be fantastic i think that even even the forementioned philadelphia freedom like if i'd listen to that and i flipped it over with no johnny b good no born bad you know just flip it over And here's the spotlight. It's like, oh, here's something different from Elton. Oh, it's, you know, it's a drum machine. it' see see It's more basic, you know, it's more simple. know, that's not a bad thing. It's just, you know, I would, I would love it.
00:43:07
Speaker
I would love it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and like to use an analogy, if you if you went to the West End to watch a production and you know you've got the lead actor or the lead actors, and then you've got the people in the chorus who are there and they're doing their bit, like that works, doesn't it? Whereas if like the lead actor just didn't turn up and all of a sudden the people in the chorus, the supporting actors, had to somehow step forward and and save the show and be the center of attention, you might start looking at them and kind of going, well, they' they're not bringing X, Y, Z. And really it's unfair that Street Boogie is left trying to pick up the pieces of this album because there's been nothing substantially good um before it. It's the shortest song, which is great. I wish it was even shorter. I mean, it's just under four minutes. I think that if it was a square three minutes, I'd i'd like it even more, you know. But yeah, it's my favourite song on the album, Street Boogie. I really, i I genuinely enjoy it it's It's got a nice little riff on the, it's like an organ or a keyboard instrument that that for me comes way too late. That kind of, did did do do do did do do do london that's really good. I think it needs that the start and with more than just one instrument as well, just to get you know get you up, get you dancing.
00:44:33
Speaker
Dominic, you've said you really like the last two tracks, so we need to we need to go on to our final one. Victim of Love, the track that the album is named after. People who listen to me rant about ah Born Bad and the sentiment of the lyrics will not be surprised to hear that I don't like the lyrics for this one. No, don't like the lyrics. Yeah, no. They belong on the previous album, Single Man, where Elton's feeling very sorry for himself romantically.
00:45:01
Speaker
But what what do you like about this one? What do I like about this one? I like that it's on Diamonds, the the the quite recent greatest hits. It's only on the third disc, the the kind of extras disc, but I like that it's celebrated. Here's my ah my fact that I've read off of Wikipedia and therefore it must be true because I've read it off Wikipedia. Allegedly, the only other song besides Victim of Love that's ever been on any compilation is a Warm Love in a Cold World, is that is on some random love songs ah budget compilation. But um yeah, I like Elton's deep voice.
00:45:39
Speaker
I think he sings it a bit differently to how he sings the other ones. And I do think it's quite good to. I first heard this in the movie Rocket Man, where it is used to represent Elton in a creative slump, Elton at its worst.
00:46:02
Speaker
And when it comes on in Rocketman and, you know, I hear it for the first time, i was like, that's quite good, actually. that This is it, but it's worse. Like they could have had, you know, Warm Love, Cold Love. They could have had that, couldn't they? They could have had that, you know. Yeah, i think I think it is one of the better tunes as well on the on the record.
00:46:21
Speaker
i i yeah, I don't like it as much as Street Boogie. You know, I said this was my second favourite. Maybe I do like Spotlight. more than victim of love you've made me doubt myself now anthony go on lay into it rip it to shreds and convince me of recalibrating my scores in in a sense the the best backing i can give this song is the fact that the rest of the album is is so bad in my opinion it it really what what i think it has going for it is that it is a reasonably well constructed song if it feels like a piece of music that Elton might have put together himself. i ah I don't believe he did. He's not accredited with, with having done so, but there is at least a structure to it. And, and musically there's a bit of depth to it. I mean, so much of what I would criticize most of the album for is the fact that, that, There doesn't seem to be any depth at all. They've kind of like, right, we've got the drums, we've got the we got the bass, let's chuck in a couple of guitar or keyboard riffs in here and there. That'll do. Now let's get Elton to sing over the top. Whereas this does actually feel like a song that could stand up on its own two feet. ah ah
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah, the sentiment I can't get behind. And it is a bit repetitive lyrically as as well, which some people won't. mine so much but again I think a big part of what I really love about Elton is these wonderful lyrics that he has written for him where he takes you on a journey so if we're just singing the same thing over and over again or variants of it's it's not quite completely repetitive but he says the phrase victim of love about 29 times in in in the song which is is is about 27 too many um
00:48:11
Speaker
but But it does sound like ah a song rather than a pop star that's turned up in a disco karaoke booth, which is what 75% of the album sounds like. So it's not the worst one, in my opinion. But um yeah, i'm not I'm not sorry to be at the end of this one. I will say, I will say. I have not yet listened to the Tom Bell sessions. I am very, very aware, as most people are, of Are You Ready?
00:48:42
Speaker
Are You Ready For Love? that was remixed and became a massive number one hit single in the early 2000s and indeed in elton john's glastonbury festival set which he claims will be his final ever uk gig he performed are you ready for love which is around this time and i mean that's a stunning disco song i've not yet listened to the rest of the tom bell sessions have you listened to them anthony i have i have and um
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah, i again, ah i think we've been spoiled by having these albums that either work as ah as a whole concept, like Tumbleweed Connection, or have just got work that feels like it's had a lot of work put into it.
00:49:29
Speaker
Even if it's been come up within 30 minutes before breakfast by Elton and the band and they've recorded it and then forgotten about it, it at least feels like it's had that. And I'd i'd say the Tom Bell sessions, are yeah, it does feel a bit thrown together and and last minute. I mean, and in including Are You Ready For Love, like the the version that got to number one in 2002, 2003, that sort of time, is does sound different to the original. Oh, okay. white Yeah, I've not actually listened to the original. I mean, it's it's great. It's great and really a worthy inclusion on the compilations that it's on. ah There's a bit of a crossover between disco and some Motown. I'm a big Motown fan.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I can't do one of our shows without praising Kiki D and saying that, you know, there's even a little bit of a disco element to Don't Go Breaking My Heart. And that's a phenomenal.
00:50:25
Speaker
Yes, it is commercial. And yes, it is poppy. It's not a billion miles away from Crocodile Rock in its kind of... sing-along, very, very, you know, it's it's and it's no Daniel, it's no your song. But I love Don't Go Breaking My Heart. I absolutely adore it.
00:50:46
Speaker
And, yeah, the the the energy and enthusiasm and talent and skill that's gone into that is is phenomenal. Kiki D has also had disco phases. Around the time of Don't Go Breaking My Heart is my least favourite Kiki D song, a song called Once A Fall,
00:51:05
Speaker
always a fool it's um it's awful and anthony it's got sound effects you kiki sings when you ring the bell and the bell goes ding ding and oh you know i you know i'm not on board with that there's none of that on victim of love is there it's none of them you know No, again, I feel we're scraping the It's quite a good problem, actually, because there's no racism. Yeah, there's that as well, isn't there? Yeah, there's that. Yeah.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, indeed. ah um Listeners will not be surprised to hear that there was not a subsequent re-release of this album. We often say that once we've got through all the tracks, we'll say, oh, you know, has this album been re-released? No, it hasn't.
00:51:45
Speaker
Let's put together some scores then. So we've only got seven tracks to review. I wonder what our scores going to be. Dominic has already seen mine because i had to I had to write them down. Partly because I i find it difficult to remember them because theyrefore they all sort of blend into one. So let's kick the ball off, Dominic. Johnny B. Good. What you giving that out of 10?
00:52:09
Speaker
Zero. Zero? Absolutely. Yeah, I despise it. I absolutely despise it. I'm giving it zero out of 10. Wow. Even Jamaica Jerkoff got more than that.
00:52:23
Speaker
I've given it zero. I've given it four. That's four too many. If you told me that that was written by the the people that were playing it, I'd say, well, yeah, no, it's got something going for it. But, yeah, definitely loses something. for I mean, i even think I even think, like, the words sound like they've got different meaning. They're kind of, go, Johnny, go, go, go. Oh, no, no, you know. It's not enough for one way or the other. I mean, like, why MCA? again, embraces that kind of don't go breaking my heart kind of oomph, young man. And it's just, it's it's not, if you're going to go for naff, it's not naff enough. It's, yeah, it's just, oh, it's terrible.
00:53:07
Speaker
Terrible. It ah has a lot to answer to. Dominic's given it zero. I've given it four. I have also given Warm Love in a Cold World four. It started much higher, but then the chorus happened. So it's a four for me. What about you, Dominic? It's a four from me.
00:53:22
Speaker
ah Okay. Four for trying, as Bruce Forsyth used to say. Born bad. What have you gone for, Dominic? It's a step up, this character piece. Yeah, five.
00:53:34
Speaker
Five out of ten. Five for Dominic. I've gone down to a two. I i really can't stand it I really can't stand it. mean, this reminds me of my huge negative reaction to ticking, which, you know, as we know, ticking is voted like the second best Elton rarity. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I can't get behind, you know, the language, the sentiment. No, no, no. And yeah, this is you've got a similar kind of visceral reaction. Oh, I don't want to bring negativity. I don't want people to, to, to a conversation where I'm just bringing them. Yeah. But, you know, I've got got to be honest. And it continues for Thunder in the Night, which I have given three. Again, if it was on a different album, if if I felt that Elton had written it, or up maybe it would be a six, you know? but it's Yeah, I'm giving it six. you I'm giving it six. Yeah, fair enough. My highest score of this episode will be for Spotlight, which is a five, which is what I gave... empty sky it's what i gave i've seen that movie too so you know it's a song it's not awful but yeah what about you dominic seven seven what yeah really like spotlight really like it same as you gave return to paradise in the previous uh episode for single man yeah yeah i i you know what
00:54:55
Speaker
Oh, I'm just i'm saying this to be contrary. I might prefer putting this on single man. You know, if I had this on in the background and I was the whole album, if I was if I was like cooking myself some some pasta for me dinner and it was taking a while to boil like single man.
00:55:12
Speaker
I know it's got his fans. I know it's got his fans, but I don't know. You'd start on track two, though, wouldn't you? wouldn't start on Johnny Be Good. What about track six, Dominic? Street Boogie. I've given it a three. I'm looking at my ridiculous score. I've given it a high score, Anthony. I like yeah really I'm going to give Street Boogie by Elton John from the Victim of Love album. 9 out of 10! 9 out of 10 for Street Fuggy. love it. Bobblin on the B-side, Don't Go Breaking My Heart, and the party carries on. Yeah, 9 out of 10. The millions of people that love Elton John's music, I think that is the highest score anyone will have ever given. Street Fuggy.
00:55:57
Speaker
It's great. It's really good. If you know Madonna was singing it I'd love it. Really good. And what about the last one then? Victim of Love, is it an advance on nine or not? Oh gosh, no. Gosh, no. Oh, what you scored Victim of Love? I'm umming and ahhing now.
00:56:13
Speaker
I've stuck with a three, which I gave Street Boogie and Thunder in the Night. da um So it's it's it's not as high as Street Boogie. I don't know whether I'm giving it a six or a seven. I don't know. You gave Thunder in the Night six. You gave Spotlight seven, if that helps. Yeah, i probably like it as much as Spotlight. I'm going to give it a seven. Giving it a seven. Okay. Which means that on average, you have given 5.43 for the tracks on Victim of Love. My average is 3.43. But regular listeners will know. We don't just rate the tracks. We rate other things too. Album name. ah If it was called Spotlight or Thunder in the Night or pretty much anything other than Born Bad or Victim of Love, I'd go higher. I've given it a four. I just don't like the sentiment. Victim of Love. Get over yourself. Four out of ten. What about you, Dominic? Yeah, it could be worse. I'm going to give it a four out of ten.
00:57:11
Speaker
I prefer the title Victim of Love. to the title 21 at 33 which is the most nothingy title ever that will be scoring lower than four on its album name well i'm going to defend that when i give you the reasons it was called that but that's for the next episode i've got wikipedia i'm aware i'm aware Let's move on to the artwork that we've already just discussed. Don't give me homework to understand your album title, Album John. Don't make me, no, no. Just call it Captain Fantastic. um
00:57:47
Speaker
Bye. Blue Moves, I get it. Single Man, I get it. yeah yeah But yeah, Victim of Love. But like you say, i wish it was called Spotlight or something like that. Street Boogie would fit a disco album, wouldn't it? Anyway, artwork. I've given it 5 out of 10 because it's better than Honky Chateau, but not much better than it's it's not as good as any other album i would say so it's a five from me do i like it as much as empty sky because i adore that album but i think the artwork lets it down by again seeming a little bit cheap i'm going to give it the same as empty sky i'm going to give it a five out of ten for the artwork cover versions i originally scored it one because there's nothing on there that has been turned into a cover version then i thought about it and i thought No, you've taken a song and you've done a worse cover version of it. So I've gone down to a zero for cover versions. Yeah, yeah. I'm i'm starting to question your inclusion of cover. I mean, we've done like 13 episodes now. It's too late to change our scoring. But like, yeah, there's going to be some really great albums that don't have loads of covers on there. That's That'll suffer. You're saying that and because you've put this in. um I think it's fair to give this a zero. It's fair. Yeah, absolutely. Lyrics. What are you giving the lyrics, Dominic? Oh.
00:59:09
Speaker
Written by a variety of people. Pete Bellot wrote some of them. I mean, they are the worst so far. Let me remind myself what I gave the lyrics of Single Man because, do you know I've been listening to War of the Worlds. There's some good disco. bob but bar do um that That's great, Gary Osborne lyrics. And Single Man, I gave five out ten for lyrics, and it's not as good as that. I'm going to give it a three, same as you.
00:59:38
Speaker
3 out of 10 for me for the lyrics. What about the music? I've also gone for a 3 for the music. but I think it has the potential to be more. But it just it's just felt slapdash and quickly put together. Cynically put together. 3.
00:59:54
Speaker
No, 4. 4. Okay, and then our last 2. Flop dodge. Does it dodge any flops? I've gone for a 1. Which I i think is is fair. It's not a 0, but it is a 1. All right. and I think there's a lot of songs. The entirety of Side 2 I defended. So I'm going to give it 5 out of 10. I think Scrap Side 1, Keep Side 2. 5 out of 10. Okay. And I will follow that logic for hits. I'm going to give it 5 out of 10 because I think that half of the record is a Dominic hit.
01:00:32
Speaker
side two and half is not okay nice i've given it a one because ah that there is nothing on there that i want to listen to again i would not leave the room if spotlight was playing but i think everything else i would do take evasive action so that means the scores are in you will be unsurprised to hear listeners that that is our lowest scoring album thus far 37.39 percent which yet
01:01:00
Speaker
percent which yet does does put it in last place it's it's closest companion is caribou on 59 oh no sorry it's closest companion is blue moves on 48.08 so a good down do you think that's fair dominic Yeah, I mean, i was adamant to defend this record and there is stuff that I like about it and it's not scraping the barrel for faint praise. Like I say, there are stuff that I would actively dance to. Definitely, definitely. But...
01:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's it's it's not an unfair score that we've given it. Some people would have just given it like 1% or 0%. So I think that, you know, 37% is, that sounds about right to me. Yeah, and and it's worth saying as well, obviously, Dominic and myself, we're not professing to be representing the universal opinion on Elton's music that there there can be no universal opinion on on art and actually my wife Alex when whenever I've had Victim of Love on she said oh is is that the is that the album that you don't like but that I actually quite like um so so yeah yeah
01:02:13
Speaker
Or she calls it like the one that everyone hates, but it's actually quite good. and So, you know, if you've listened to this episode and you've thought, oh, if this is my favourite, or actually i think this one's really good, then um yeah, that's great. That is great. Good for you. Good for you. Our next episode, Dominic, you've already mentioned the album we're going to be talking about. What is it? 48 at and a half. random number at random number that can only be justified by intense external reading oh but i'm gonna argue it i'm gonna argue we'll wait for the next one but yeah that one 21 at 33 came out on the
01:02:54
Speaker
may nineteen eighty s so were Just under a year. Over the 80s. Indeed. Indeed. Now, we're always insecure that you're not going to come back and listen, perhaps no more so than after we've just spent an hour slagging an album off. So we need we need to lure you back in with the answer for a question. So here comes the question. We've given you a bit of a clue for this one.
01:03:17
Speaker
We've kind of missed out on a studio album in making episode 13 about victim of love. Arguably... episode 13 could have been reviewing a different album.
01:03:31
Speaker
We've chosen to go for a certain definition of solo studio album and generally speaking I've just been following what Wikipedia says actually to be honest but what album could we have put in as episode 13 rather than victim of love and you might even be able to guess if you're not sure but tune in at the start of the next episode have we mentioned it in the show have we mentioned it uh yes i don't know whether we explicitly said that it was an album but the name of the album has has been mentioned a couple of times yeah
01:04:04
Speaker
All right. Interesting. Interesting. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to us. We would love it if you got in touch. Defend victim of love or say that we were too generous. Say that we didn't go harsh enough. If you want to email at eltonveltonpod, that's all one word, eltonveltonpod at gmail.com, you may. If you want to know more about Anthony and me, I've got a website, dominicberry.net. and anthony's on two other podcasts the brambling along podcast and enough of the falafel the vegan week and vegan talk shows on which i sometimes feature until next time it's goodbye from captain domtastic and the brown dirt ant boy goodbye goodbye
01:04:57
Speaker
This podcast is hosted by Zencaster. We've used some sound effects from zapsplap.com. We've taken information from songfacts.com as well as sereltonjohn.fandom.com, the wiki. And I'd also really personally recommend you read Elton's autobiography which is called Me. I listened to the audio version. It's narrated by Taron Egerton which is excellent. We're indebted to all those who've helped create and share Elton's music and thanks again to James Cook and Paul Savage who inspired the format of this show.............