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5. Honky Chateau (1972) Album Review
9 Plays10 hours ago
How does an album with such an epic song as Rocket Man have such an awful cover?! Dominic & Anthony review Elton's fifth studio album & even get bold enough to rearrange the track order...who do they think they are exactly?!
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Welcome to Elton v Elton: The Album Battle! This is the podcast where two pals (Anthony & Dominic) & Elton fans rage over which of Elton's albums we think is the best. We'll be keeping score as we go, as we delve into each of Elton's solo studio albums, discussing the tracks individually, the musicians involved, the album art, random trivia, cover versions & anything else in between!
We'd love to hear from you with your ratings, opinions and any other insights into Elton's work you have. Drop us an email via eltonveltonpod@gmail.com
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Thanks go to everyone involved in bringing Elton's work to the bigger stage, James Cook (http://www.jamescookcomedian.com/) & Paul Savage (https://www.instagram.com/savagecomics_/) who inspired the format of this show and Zapsplat.com for the SFX. Research for the show was done using songfacts.com, https://sir-elton-john.fandom.com/ , eltonchords.com, https://www.eltonography.com/ and Elton’s autobiography 'Me'.
You can find Dominic on https://www.facebook.com/dominicberry/ and on his poetry website https://dominicberry.net/
You can find Anthony on two other podcasts: Enough of the Falafel (featuring the Vegan Week & Vegan Talk shows) and The Brambling Along Podcast
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Until next time it’s goodbye from Captain Dom-tastic & the Brown Dirt Ant-boy!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Format
00:00:00
Speaker
It is 19th of May 1972. Elton John has never a a US s number one album. But that's all about to change as he releases Honky Chateau. I'm Dominic. And I'm Anthony. And you are listening to Elton vs Elton The Album Battle.
00:00:38
Speaker
Welcome everyone. We're so very glad that you're here. This is episode five of Elton versus Elton album battle. The format of the show, if this is your first time, two pals, me and Dominic.
00:00:49
Speaker
We love the music of Elton John and we're just going a big old debate over which album we like the best. One album per episode. Big shout outs. We're not trying to steal anyone's glory or piggyback our way to podcasting superstardom. We want to give credit where it's due. obviously anyone who's been involved in any way in bringing Elton's music to the masses and playing on his albums and and singles. Big shout out to those folk, as well as two people who may never have ever heard an Elton John album in in its entirety, James Cook and Paul Savage. They're both comedians. They did a podcast called The World Cup of World Cups, where they pitted men's football World Cups against one another in a similar way to we're doing for Elton John's albums. They gave us the idea.
00:01:38
Speaker
for this show. So shout out to those guys. Obviously, this is episode five. So there's previous episodes of this you can catch up on if you want to listen to things in order. There's also a trailer pod where me and Dominic talk a little bit about why we want to do this project, why Elton's special to us, and just a little bit about us and our lives away from this show. So that's there if you want to hear that one. Yeah, for sure. Although if you're a big fan of the song Rocket Man, or, and why this would be the case, I don't know, you're a big fan of Honky Cat.
00:02:09
Speaker
And you're like, but i just want to skip straight to the album with that massive hit on it. Well, yeah, that is okay. You don't have to have listened to all the others. They're there if you want them. What we do do, though, is have a question, at a teaser trivia puzzle from
Recording Honky Chateau
00:02:25
Speaker
Anthony. It was quite a straightforward one last time. We asked,
00:02:29
Speaker
where is the Honky Chateau? And Anthony, I don't know the answer. Where is Honky Chateau? Well, as the name suggests, it is in France. It's not actually called the Honky Chateau. It is called Chateau d'Héruville. It is just northwest of Paris, um just a few miles really out of the the city limits if you like. um And it is a music studio where this album was recorded, the first of several Elton albums that were recorded there, the first of several number one albums that were recorded in the same studio.
00:03:09
Speaker
So that's where the name comes from too. The previous album wasn't recorded there. That was Madman Across the Water. That was our previous episode, which you can go back and listen to if you want.
00:03:20
Speaker
That one came out on the 5th of November, 1971. As we said on that episode, that was the 10th best-selling album in the whole of the US in 1972. In terms of tracks on it that you might know,
00:03:35
Speaker
You might not know many of them, but you might have heard of Tiny Dancer. You might have heard of Leave On. It reached number 41 in the UK. The album, this is a number
00:03:55
Speaker
We're in 1972 now. We've moved on from Madman Across the Water. What's happening in the world
1972 Cultural Context
00:04:00
Speaker
in this time? Many of our listeners won't have been alive 1972. What's happening? Yeah, I wasn't alive in 1972. I'm aware that the Apollo 16 was launched. The lunar roving vehicle achieved a lunar rover speed record of 17 kilometres an hour. That happened ah in Northern Ireland. The troubles were getting very violent. We had Richard Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev sign the SOT1 treaty in Moscow, as well as the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and other agreements.
00:04:35
Speaker
We have the first scientific handheld calculator, the hp thirty five introduced. And of course, I'm of that generation where teachers always said, you won't have a calculator to use in real life. And of course, we all do on our phones. But yeah, the first ever one was priced at just under $400. So it weren't a cheap bit of cake That's mad, isn't it? Isn't that absolutely mad? like Because $400 in 1972, presumably, is like the equivalent of thousands of dollars now.
00:05:10
Speaker
Well, that's technology for you, isn't it? That's, ah yeah, everything
Track Analysis: Honky Chateau
00:05:14
Speaker
has its time. We were talking just before we started recording about the changing... value in monetary terms of music and how when uh antley when you had your very best of elton john cd you still had the price sticker on it didn't you yeah 19 pounds 99 which probably is that would have been the price for it for probably the next 30 years i imagine it's a touch cheaper now but relative to what people were earning back in 1990 yeah it was a lot it was a lot yeah but the music of 1972 let me tell you the number ones in the US and the UK UK number one was Metal Guru by T-Rex whereas in the US it was the first time ever I saw your face by Roberta Flack
00:05:57
Speaker
Indeed. So that's the global context. What about the context of Elton's life? Well, up until this point, we've been calling him Elton because that's what he's been releasing records under the name of. But really, his name has been Reginald Dwight. However, this is the first album that he's recorded where his name legally is Elton John, or to be precise, Elton Hercules John, more on the name Hercules as we get through this album. So that has been the case since the 7th of January, 1972.
00:06:33
Speaker
As we'll touch on when we're looking at the personnel on the album, the band, the Elton John band is starting to become a thing. We're seeing and feeling the same names performing again and again, and those being consistent with the guys on tour as the guys in the studio up until this point there's kind of been a a random collection if you like of studio folk with some exceptions some consistencies such as Dee Murray and Nigel Olsen but we're starting to get a real core band it's fair to say that his drug use is becoming more prominent indeed when looking at the the backstory of how this album was recorded they went to this chateau in france to record and it's it's based in a little village and they put on a free concert for the people of the village is just a nice thing to do and then they spiked the people's drinks with lsd without without telling them um so i think it's i think it's fair to say that
00:07:33
Speaker
drug use was ah quite liberal amongst the band. And Elton does say that in 1972, 1973, that's when his drug use started to become quite consistent and prolific, I suppose. And just in terms of where he lives, he's moved out of London to Surrey now with his partner at the time, John Reid. They weren't public partners, but they they they were partners together romantically, um as well as Reid being the manager.
00:08:01
Speaker
of the Elton John music project. and They're moving to a place in Virginia water called Hercules. it And when you listen to the description of it in his autobiography, it's fancy. They've got a
In-depth on Rocketman
00:08:16
Speaker
games room, you know, it's it's got nice grounds and what have you, but it is still just a three bed bungalow. This isn't like a super, super mansion, but definitely a starting to stand to spend a bit of money and live a lifestyle that we might say is consistent with a global rock star.
00:08:35
Speaker
Who's on the album there, Dominic? Oh, sorry, on. no, that's all right. That's all right. Before I say who's on the album, there was a biography that predated the me autobiography. And I remember Elton saying in this book that I read back in the 90s that he was still feeling quite humble with Tumbleweed Connection and Man Man Across the Water. Not quite, you know, it wasn't producing the same level of hit as your song had been. So, you know, for a lot of people, Rocket Man,
00:09:07
Speaker
was the second song they knew from Elton. So he wasn't quite the global superstar that he would become in like, you know, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road era and beyond.
00:09:18
Speaker
But yeah, back to who features on the album. You did mention previously that there are a lot of French session musicians. That's something that definitely puts it apart with the trombone, trumpet, saxophone.
00:09:33
Speaker
We do have a tap dance, which I will speak at length about when we get to that song. Legs, Larry Smith, who is an English drummer known from... He was in the Bonzo Dog Doodah band. Can we pause and you tell me what you think of the Bonzo Dog Doodah band? Because I wonder whether you have a strong opinion or not. Do you know what? you know what? and I don't really. i know that I've listened to them, but it's been so long ago
00:10:04
Speaker
that my opinion now would be so different. What's your opinion of Bonds? love them. I love them. Yeah, I mean, since we've started doing this project, I've been listening to Elton John solid. You know, um any opportunity to listen to music is Elton I've been listening to. I could
Continued Album Review
00:10:22
Speaker
not do that with the Bonds who talk to you about that. i do I do love their stuff and there's there's just funny little references there as their name suggests. They're a satirical, comical band, but like they're decent musicians as well. So yeah, I've got definitely got a soft spot for Legs' Larry Smith. We've got the magnificent Madeleine Bell on backing vocals. We've got a tiny bit of Ray Cooper on Kongos, just on the eighth track.
00:10:49
Speaker
But we do have Dee Murray back on bass, Nigel Olsen back on drums, tambourine, backing vocals. We've got Davey Johnson, who debuted in the Elton albums, you know, on the previous record. He's now here on banjo, electric guitar, steel, side guitar, another Mandarin. He's very prominent now, which is a very good thing to see. If you don't know, Davey Johnson is the future boyfriend of Kiki D. Also co-writer of I guess that's why they call it the blues. He, ah you know, really important. figure in Elton John's music, adding the guitar to his piano. Wonderfully talented, brilliant musician.
00:11:34
Speaker
Always smiling as well. i've I've been lucky enough to see Elton three times. And whenever... I don't know whether they gave him a cue, like, David, you're about to be on you're about to be on the big screen. But, like, it whenever the camera cut to him, he'd be smiling away, having a great time. i I recently watched a documentary, which I've not been able to find since, really annoyingly, about the making of...
00:12:00
Speaker
Which album was it? Maybe it was this one. Yeah, I think it was the making of Honky Chateau. And Elton is describing playing with Davy Johnston in this way for the first time and just the way that he's not like imposing himself on a song. and So he's talking about Rocketman and how you you barely notice that Davey's playing, but he's just coming in every now and then with the perfect, the perfect little phrase or the perfect bit of backing.
00:12:28
Speaker
And he can do a banging guitar solo or sitar or mandolin or or whatever. he's ah He's a great musician. Whilst we're waxing lyrical about him, I've i've got a lot of time for him.
00:12:39
Speaker
Well, I would recommend the 1977 album Kiki D by Kiki D. I do dislike eponymous titles, but Davy Johnson features very heavily on that record. And he writes a couple of songs with Kiki D. It was like the height of their romance. And it's ah a pretty grand record, to be honest. I recommend a Kiki D by Kiki D. Nice. But that's not what we're talking about today. We're talking about a very different album. Yeah. Although I will say, though, one more Kiki thing. This is on the brink. This is on the brink of the Loving and Free album being made. And there's a song ah coming up, which I shall...
00:13:24
Speaker
No, I won't. No, I won't. I'm telling a lie. It's a song that's on the next album, Don't Shoot Me, which I'm going to compare to Kiki's debut on Rocket. So Kiki had been on Motown, the first white British woman on ah Motown. And when Elton became really famous, he he really took her under her wing, felt she hadn't had the commercial success that she deserved. And he
Album Art and Final Thoughts
00:13:46
Speaker
produces and plays piano on the Loving Free record, which I highly heartily heartily recommend Anthony tell us about this album what other stuff would we do well to know well in terms of we've we've already touched on how it was um composed where it was put together the LSD spike drinks at the local village fate and all of that is really interesting to just take some notes of of how it was put together um So the group arrive at the Chateau for a several day long recording session. At this point, nobody's really heard the songs. Many of the songs don't even exist.
00:14:31
Speaker
So Elton has got lyrics ready to look at or or maybe they're being written at the same time as well. Apparently, on the first morning before breakfast, a few of the band are having a bit of a lie-in. Before breakfast, Elton has read and composed the songs Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's Amy and Rocketman all before breakfast on the first morning. that that like That's incredible. There are many, many instances where you can really grasp just how talented Elton is as ah as a songwriter. And that for me is a real standout one.
00:15:12
Speaker
As we've said, this has now got a consistent band together focusing on it. The record label wasn't a big fan of Davey Johnston, but Elton's insisting, no, no, no, he needs to be, he needs to be heavily involved in this. So we've got him in there. In terms of the finished product and how well it was received, this one was number one in Spain, in the US, s it was number but two in the UK, number three in Canada, number four in Australia, number five in Italy. So this is really standing out compared to previous albums in terms of how many people are getting their hands on it.
00:15:55
Speaker
Many years later in the... We keep coming back to the Rolling Stone magazine's list of 500 greatest albums of all time. Their 2003 version of that list, this was ranked as number 357. In their 2012 of it, it 359.
00:16:09
Speaker
in there twenty twelve list of it it was three hundred and fifty nine In their version of the list, it was raised to number two hundred and fifty one which is interesting because there's other albums that we've already rated that didn't sell half as well as this that have been rated higher so in a sense this doesn't seem to have stood the test of time particularly well but we need to hear what me and Dominic feel about it that that's the name of the game here we're not saying we're more important but that is the name of the game in this podcast Dominic you've owned this album for a while haven't you yeah I know this very well so if you've listened to the previous podcast by us You'll know that I owned Empty Sky and adore that and can't believe the low scoring that Anthony gave it, relatively speaking. I'm sure there's lower scores to come for some of the yeah later records. But this was probably the second Elton that I owned. I wanted to buy them all chronologically. But of course, in the 1990s, getting hold of music wasn't as... easy as it is today with just listening on YouTube or getting something second hand on eBay it was hard and uh I was trying to get them chronologically and this was just the next one that I managed to find in a music shop so yeah I know it very very well indeed
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah. ah Similarly, i've this was I reckon this was about the fourth or fifth Elton album I owned. I think I probably got it when I was about 15, something like that.
Elton John's Early 70s Era
00:17:50
Speaker
i as will become apparent,
00:17:53
Speaker
used to be big fan of the song Honky Cat, being someone who learned the piano from the age of five, hearing someone very audibly play the piano in popular music, in lively, entertaining way, was a big thing for me because I was trained kind of like Elton was in like a classical way. Elton originally learned the piano by ear, but then he did go to the Royal School of Music and had a bit of a classical bit of training, but I'd say like all of my upbringing was quite a classical traditional bit of training. So to hear something lively like that was great. And it's evident in the title of the album that it's going to feature the song Honky Cat. So I was really excited to listen to this. And I've been aware of the music of this album for a good 20 years. Let's talk about what it looks like. I think this is an awful photo. It's pretty bad, isn't it? Yeah. I also really dislike the Elton John by Elton John one. I mean, I wasn't mad keen on Madman Across the Water, but at least...
00:18:59
Speaker
It was a bit arty. um I don't think I've loved any of the ah artwork so far. I think Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player is the first one that I think is really good. And then Goodbye Yellow Brick Road is a masterpiece of visual art. But this is just, this is a step down from Madman Across the Water.
00:19:19
Speaker
I'd be really interested to read a history of the album art for Alton Hale. I will say it's not been easy to research that, you know, you want to research the the music, how things were produced, live recordings and and stuff like that.
00:19:37
Speaker
That's relatively easy to come by. But I'm a bit confused as to why you've got this on the front of an album. Whereas like his his first two albums, okay, we can say that Empty Sky is a bit rough and ready, but at least someone's produced something for it, like they've drawn something. Elton John album, okay, it's not to everyone's taste, but like there's mood lighting and it's, you know, it's it's very deliberate. This is the worst so far. This feels like someone's just been struggling to find a picture of him and they've been like, quick, that that that one will do. Stick it stick on a beige background, put the album title and his name on. Boom, right, that'll do. it It really doesn't tally with the amount of money and time that's being spent on other elements of of his work it's bizarre mind you not to get a personal plug in but i happen to be a poet and i'm working on my new book which is imminent for release and we suddenly went oh crikey we've not got a book cover That can when you're so focused on other elements. So maybe the yeah maybe the drug use was something that ah interfered with the the the production. Who knows? Who knows? Well, I i will say, Dominic, I have the great privilege of having several of your books of poetry and none of them... are anywhere near as bad with the cover art as they're they're all very good uh chonky chateau would would let it down significantly if there was a picture of you looking quite so haggard let's talk about the music though
00:21:28
Speaker
Honky Cat. I'm going to start off because I've got things to say about... I've got loads of that, Honky Go on, Ant. Go on, go on. I've already said from penis point of view, it's got a lovely, well, it's, as the name suggests, honky-tonk feel to it. It's over five minutes long, and I think it's a bit too long. personally, but it's a prominent piano in a poppy track. And think over time, it's gone down the rankings for me because I've heard more of Elton playing piano in more adventurous ways or more subtle ways or things like that. But in terms of a piece of pop music,
00:22:10
Speaker
that's got a prominent piano, I think it does a lot. There's a lot of kiddos out there playing the piano, and I think it does a good job of representing it as ah as a fun instrument, not just something that is accompanying an orchestra in ah you know a Rachmaninoff concerto or something like that. I've got a lot of time for Honky Cat what What do you think though, Dominic? I've swung from loving this song to hating this song, to being somewhere in the middle. So on the aforementioned British Only, very best of the Elton John double CD release, it is track three. So you've had your song and Rocketman, two Stone Cold classics, and then Honky Cat, and it is stylistically very different. Then track four,
00:22:59
Speaker
is Crocodile Rock. Now, I will say that I think that Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player is a more serious record than Honky Chateau. Even with Crocodile Rock in, you can see that going side by side, Honky Cat and Crocodile Rock, of course, Crocodile Rock is the la la la, la, la, la. And it's got that intro, do, do, do, do.
00:23:26
Speaker
I think that even with that, I think Honky Cat is more twee. Yeah. think that... I think that this album, Honky Chateau, is an odd mix of twee and then Mona Lisa's and Manhattan's. You know, like really sincere. And like, whereas Goodbye Yellow Brick Road is a right odd mix of so many. I mean, what a patchwork canvas that is of differing styles, so much variety. I would say that this isn't that level of diversity.
00:24:00
Speaker
but you can categorise it in in serious song or twee. And that's a really harsh thing to say about Honky Cat because you're right, the piano playing, it's technically good. It's a great tune. The lyrics are brilliant. you know it's what And the horn section in there, I mean, there's trumpet, trombone, saxophone, and there's a real nice...
00:24:22
Speaker
dooooooo dooo dooo like there's a real nice instrumental section in the minute it's it's not similar to most Elton yeah it's shocking that Honky Cat was put on that double best of and not Leave On or Tiny Dancer or Border Song I mean it's not even this was a UK only best of and like Honky Cat was not a massive hit single like number 31 it weren't top 10 it weren't it's not a household song and i don't know i'm really interested why so many things were left off no step into christmas on the the best of and yet we've got honky cats so maybe it's because it does stand out i guess that elton john is unusual
00:25:10
Speaker
for being pop artists of such phenomenal success for whom the piano as opposed to guitar is the main instrument and i guess honky cat is a very very very piano centric one yeah it's good in the rocket man movie when it's like the duet you know that's that's ah that's it's well used in that I mean, we've we've spoken on episode three about the Tumbleweed Connection, which is a great album in terms of everything on that album fitting really well. And even Empty Sky, you know, you can you can see things fitting together. that I'm not sure what album Honky Cat would ever fit on, really. But I think in terms of a real, lively, poppy song, i I think it has all the ingredients for it And I think it's... It's a song that lots of people enjoy. i i think maybe ah we might consider ourselves to be, you know, Elton, if not aficionados, like we, you know, we know our B-sides, we know our album tracks and and maybe it's,
00:26:15
Speaker
For fear of leaping ahead to the very, very final out er song, like I'm not that mad keen on the song Hercules. And even though that's less sort of piano at the foreground, I think in answer your question on what does this album belong, it belongs on the same album as Hercules. And I think I'm going to kill myself. It's almost like old time musical. That's what it's like, which is bold and brave and bizarre.
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's, um I mean, and another indicator of of, you know, how a song is received is how many people choose to cover it. And there's been lots of covers. Leanne Womack. There's a great bluegrass cover by Cliff Wagner. The Don Campbell band cover it. And um it's similar to the Elton version, but the singer is sounding a bit like Elvis. There is a truly, truly awful cover version out there, which I will not name. um because that seems mean um also featured in the the soundtrack to the 1998 movie Sliding Doors so lots of people think a lot of it we shall see how representative of the album it is as we progress so we should move on to the next track
00:27:30
Speaker
Mellow, five and a half minutes long, arguably another, following Tiny Dancer in the last album, another tribute to Bernie's love interest of the time. What do you think of this one, Dominic? I think it's okay. I think it jars massively with Honky Chateau. So we've got our two types of sound, like Mellow is far more in the Rocketman school of ah music.
00:27:58
Speaker
I think that it's not as good as Tiny Dancer. It's, yeah, you know, it's great hearing, you know, Davey Johnson on it. it It does go on.
00:28:10
Speaker
It does go on. Yeah, I, I, I, I've said on previous episodes, there are tracks that I just want to finish at a certain point. And I love, i love the musical feel of this one and the tone. And you've got these beautiful sweeping little riffs that Davey's doing on the guitar. And then, for my money, three and a half minutes, there's an awful jarring guitar solo. um Is it guitar or is it electric violin? Either way, it's high-pitched, it's scratchy, and it doesn't fit. that I mean, even the name of the song, Mellow, it's not a mellow solo at all. And up to that point, it's got a real nice, consistent feel to the track, and I love it. And that, for me, knocks a couple of marks off it now. But...
00:28:56
Speaker
But I really like the combination of of the lyrics and the the tone of this. I was quite critical of Empty Sky and other tracks since where the lyric and the the music don't seem to match. I think this is a great match. I really like this one. It's it's yeah just a shame about that screechy solo towards the end and the the fact that it it goes on for probably a couple more minutes than it needs to. Yeah. so we've we've already mentioned the contrast between Mellow and Honky Cat. Now let's flip back to the lively, jaunty, almost music-call-y.
00:29:36
Speaker
I think I'm going kill myself. Dominic, I got this record when I was about 15, maybe even 14, and I was not somebody that grew up listening to Kurt Cobain or Nirvana or or anything like that. And I was really shocked by the the name of this song.
00:29:54
Speaker
you know I just not heard people sing and ah talk about that that sort of notion of suicide or anything like that. shows the sheltered life I had. The tone of this song, however, is not not somebody wailing and you know really heavy, heavy music it's great the fantastic lyric about you know if you want to save his life bridget bardo's got to visit him every night and you know i think that's that's a highlight of the song i think that that's um a really well written little bit there yeah it's it's very jaunty and again it like the first track it could be played on ah a honky tonk piano um and it's very rinkly
00:30:37
Speaker
dickty dinky dink Dominic's already mentioned the tap dance solo in there. And I don't know whether it's because I know Dominic quite well, or whether new listeners will have picked up on this too. My guess is that you're not a fan of the tap dancing solo, Dominic. Well, I don't know. So i grew up listening to musical theatre. Jesus Christ Superstar by Andrew Lloyd Webber has got King Herod's Song, which has got a similar honky-tonk piano and a tap dance in the middle. It's
00:31:11
Speaker
very similar in a lot of ways. My favourite musical ever is the Rocky Horror Show and there's the ah Charles Atlas song, I Can Make You A Man, which has got a piano really, really similar. And you can imagine a tap dance, definitely Time Warp has got a tap dance bit in it. I think the song is what it is. And again, like Honky Cat, I've swung from loving it to hating it, to being somewhere in the middle.
00:31:39
Speaker
I don't think the tap dance jazz in the way that the ah electronic instrument in mellow jazz, I think it it does fit the song. The song is what it is, isn't it? Yeah, I think as well when you hear it,
00:31:54
Speaker
I don't think it sounds like someone tap dancing, probably a tap dancer listening to it. Oh, thought we did. It's blatantly a tap dancer. Maybe it's because I was so familiar with Jesus Christ Superstar and the King Herod. So to me, it sounded ah so much of the same genre. So I immediately, I didn't think it was tap dance because of reading the sleeve notes. I thought, oh, they're tap dancing. So I did. I remember very clearly.
00:32:20
Speaker
thinking it did sound like that. The rest of the music is playing and like Elton's doing a solo at the same time. It's it's not like everything stops and then you just hear, do do do do goodoo you know, it's it's not like that. So i I would imagine there'd be some people who wouldn't immediately go, oh, that's that's someone tap dancing, how odd. But there's, yeah, there's probably lots of people that that do recognise it. i I think musically it's quite fun and i like the, it doesn't,
00:32:47
Speaker
it doesn't come across as someone who's actually considering suicide. It's it's like Kevin the teenager. Oh, God's sake, you're saying I've got to be in by 10 o'clock. I can't even use the car. Oh, for God's sake. like it It comes across like that, but in a really jaunty way. I really like it. And I think musically it's clever as well because you've got this jauntiness. And then at the end of each chorus, you've got basically the music itself. the rhythm of the music completely changes and you have these long notes, these lovely vocal harmonies when he's singing the line on the state of teenage blue. ho
00:33:25
Speaker
And I think that's really nice and it picks back up again. Musically, I think it's great that the lyric takes a bit of while to get used to. i don't think it's insulting. So, you know, minor trigger warning for folks. I'm not going to take this podcast into a really horrible place, but I am a poet and shock horror. I wasn't happy at school. A person who writes poetry as an adult who had bad school days. And, you know, I did have a suicide attempt myself in my teenage years. I won't go into it loads, but this isn't new news. You know, write about it a lot in my poetry. My books that have been published. i I draw on that as a significant... And this was prior to me hearing this song. So ah when I did hear this song with my sort of ah own experiences of what was a very serious choice at the time, which I got through and then, you know, life went in a different direction. I i wasn't insulted by this song. I didn't think I was interested by this song. I mean, comparing it to the song by Queen,
00:34:28
Speaker
Don't Try Suicide. Like Freddie Mercury is kind of quite... Freddie Mercury is always theatrical and bombastic and fun, but the lyric comes across as kind of quite, you know, and ah ah you know earnestly, Don't Try Suicide. Nobody's worth it. Nobody gives a damn. Whereas this one...
00:34:48
Speaker
is, yeah, it's it's it's a comedy song. the The Bridget Bardo thing really brings us to the punchline. And I think it's good in what it is. I question its inclusion when it's...
00:35:03
Speaker
after to Mellow and before Suzy Dramas. I think that it's, ah having only listened to Tumbleweed Connection, an album that's got loads of death and despair and joy and celebration, all held together in such a coherent fashion, it does jolt you around all over the shop, this record, in just the first few songs. I would completely agree with that. You've mentioned Dominic, the next track.
00:35:34
Speaker
It's called Suzie, open brackets, dramas, close brackets. The reason for that is because as you'll hear when you hear the track, very often the narrator is referring to pretty little black-eyed Suzie and it was originally going to be called Black-Eyed Suzie, but there is a traditional bluegrass song that is called that and there was lots of drama. in terms of the management like working out, or legally, what can we call this? Oh, we're getting pushback saying we can't. So it was then changed to Suzy, and then they included the word dramas just in the title as a as a chuckle at that. The word drama is not used anywhere in the song, anywhere else. I'm a big fan of this one too, in a different in a different way We've mentioned in previous shows the live album that was Elton's first ah called 11-17-70 or 17-11-70, depending on which continent you live in. And that's got a great combination of bass, drums and piano, as well as the vocals in a way that they don't quite match up.
00:36:35
Speaker
And they're sounding like a little bit like they're out of time almost or syncopated. And then they come together and they they do that quite a lot. I really love it. And we get this in Susie, but particularly for the choruses, they come together. But there's this strain in the verse and then the intros of it, not quite fitting together, which I think matches the the lyric to an extent. i'm I'm a fan of it. I've got a bit more to say about it. But Dominic, what are your general feelings on this one?
00:37:05
Speaker
I am a massive fan and on our previous podcast I felt that Razorface was the hidden gem on Mad Man Across the Water. I think that Susie is the hidden gem on Honky Chateau. I think that it's the best song ever. so far. I think it's an amazing song. I absolutely love it. And unlike Honky Chateau, the piano feels musical to me a bit. Susie is such a joyful... It's got that Elton John sound that I love so very, very much.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, I adore Susie. Yeah, and and it's it's got it's got great lyrics painting a real picture of this character when we get on to discuss Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. That is an album that is full of characters. Pretty much every track you can picture a person that this song is telling a story about, full of ballads really, that that album but this does that as well like ah you could draw a picture of Susie from this lyric absolutely couldn't you her surroundings you could you could be um inferring what she might be like as a person her backstory and all of that it's fantastic we were waxing a lyrical about Davy Johnston at the at the start of this show again I don't really like the the guitar solo in this one I think that
00:38:33
Speaker
That lets it down a little bit. No, no, I love it. I love it. I love it. start to finish this song. I don't think it's too long. I think it has all of them really strong. Yeah, love it. Yeah, I will say, and I would say this about the next track too, Dee Murray on bass, I think is really undervalued. in terms of what he brings generally generally to Elton's music. But I think Honky Chateau is a real good exhibition of of him too, because he he'll jump around with his bass playing and playing bits that you're not quite noticing without dominating. And it just makes it musically quite interesting. He does that well in this one too.
00:39:11
Speaker
The next track is the biggest one on the album. It is the biggest one on almost any Elton John album or show or performance or anything.
00:39:22
Speaker
It is Rocketman. Dominic. Tell us what you think about Rocketman. David Bowie's not keen, is he? Interestingly, interestingly. So I adore David Bowie, ah whisper it, blasphemy, but like even more than Elton John. I'm a massive David Bowie fan. I really, really am. I'll tell you an album of David Bowie's that is a lot of people's number one favourites. And I'm like, oh, not sure if I'm so keen.
00:39:53
Speaker
uh hunky dory and i think hunky dory that's the one that's got life on mars on it think it's really similar to honky chateau really really similar and again there are some really jaunty songs there's a song called fill your heart with love and it's bowie on like full kind of like woo like very honky cat. And then there's like quicksand, which is about mental illness. You know, it really is those two extremes on on David Bowie's hunky dory. It's not for me. Give me a more consistent rock album or dance album any day. Rocketman, I don't think it's a David Bowie ripoff. I really don't. I think that it is his own unique being.
00:40:41
Speaker
And I think it is worthy of its acclaim. When I saw Elton John live, have I ever mentioned that I saw Elton John live? Have i ever said that? Has that ever come up in conversation?
00:40:56
Speaker
i mean, I think the version of Rocketman he played went on for about four days, think. I think was about four days on. And I loved every second of it. I loved every second of it. Yeah, it was out out on No, it was an out-of-body experience. And I looked around at the very old audience in this arena. like I was one of the younger people in there.
00:41:24
Speaker
And like everyone seemed on board. I've been to concerts where you check the vibe and you're like, yeah, people have had enough of the Red Hot Chili Peppers podcast. funk solo. They, you know, come on, stop being so self-indulgent, labs, just play the song. And i was really surprised because I really, I was looking around, maybe they had put LSD in all of our drinks. They might have done that. They really, because I was looking at these, like, you know, retirement age blue-rids hair ladies, and they were loving it. These, like, super,
00:41:59
Speaker
Super psychedelic instrumental section, ah which isn't featured on the album cut. I'm talking about being live. But it was an interesting thing that the mood was so great.
00:42:11
Speaker
I love it. I'll also go on to say, and I know you're not a fan, Anthony, the Kate Bush version. The cap bush oh Kate Bush version. Yes, I'm not a fan of the Kate version. I'm a massive fan of early Kate Bush, less so her latest stuff, but early Kate Bush. And I think that her cover of Rocketman was kind of the um the the, that was the end of what I see as the golden Kate Bush era, everything from the 70s till the sort of 90s I'm on board with. And I think that it's so different, the Kate Bush, but for me, and I can't stand reggae, I'm not, even like someone as iconic as Bob Marley, I struggle with. But kate it's an out-of-body experience. Kate Bush, she she totally reinterprets song and it's an out-of-body experience.
00:42:58
Speaker
I love Rocket Man. People slag off the lyrics. People particularly point to Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids. In fact, it's cold as hell and there's no one there to raise them. If you did, think it's a brilliant lyric. I think it's so specific.
00:43:15
Speaker
and mixes fantasy with mundeity. That's why people like Rocketman, because it is relatable, is fantastical and relatable, which is a really hard thing to pull off. I think when we discussed your song, you know the opening song of Elton's second album,
00:43:37
Speaker
We discussed there the fact that sometimes a song is played so much, it's so well known, that it almost becomes a bit old, it becomes a victim of its own success. And I i i think that possibly, that that might be the case with Rocketman, people picking apart things like that. It's evocative. You can imagine the guy doing his thing.
00:43:57
Speaker
And musically, it's it's faultless, really. ah Again, kudos to the, there's a little bit of steel guitar in there. And like it's it's so well put together. The production is fantastic. It's not overproduced.
00:44:11
Speaker
But the way the band comes together in playing this, what a great example of this Elton John band that's becoming a thing. It's becoming solidified. They're doing their first proper album together as a unit. um And this this is a great example of that.
00:44:28
Speaker
I would say there's a disparity between how much I like it and how much... Everyone else seems to like it. Like, for for some people, this is the Elton John signature song, isn't it? You know, he's called The Rocket Man to many people. That's the name of his film autobiography that sort of thing. And, yeah, for me, it's not it's not his number one single, but by any stretch, you know, maybe it's in the top 50 Elton songs for me. Maybe maybe not even that. It's good. Don't get me wrong. It's an excellent piece of music. I just...
00:45:02
Speaker
Maybe I'm being a bit contrary. Maybe I like to like things that some people don't know about. and But you could also just have overheard something, can't You couldn't overhear things. And there's some songs, Common People by Pulp, Starman by David Bowie.
00:45:18
Speaker
uh you know that i can never hear too many times i could just have them on repeat and and rocket man both kate bush's version and elton john's version fall in that category what i'm less keen on which elton himself is a huge fan of is the rocket man bit of cold heart with dua lipa i was devastated when i saw live he did no 90s stuff and i'm a huge fan and night is elton john Made in England, what brilliant record. The Lion King, he didn't do Can You Feel the Love Tonight, Circle of Life.
00:45:54
Speaker
Oh, there is so much daring stunning, stunning 90s Elton John. Some of the stuff off the Duets album, them brilliant. And yet he did Cold Heart with Dua Lipa on the video screen. He couldn't even be bothered to turn up.
00:46:12
Speaker
And like, he sings it. Like, oh, think he's going to be a lot. Oh, it's just so pedestrian. It's so the opposite of the grand experience. I think Cold Heart, and I mentioned on a previous podcast that I'm a massive fan of the dance song, Say Good Morning to the Night, which is, I believe, produced by the same guy. Is it, how do you say P-N-A-U, Anthony? Do you know? P-N-A-U? don't know. P-N-A-U? P-N-A-U? I don't know, but I've not yet listened to the full, because there's a full album, isn't there? full album, Dance Out. Have you listened that one?
00:46:51
Speaker
No, no, I haven't. i've been I've been religiously going through things chronologically since we decided to do this podcast series. So that's going to one of the last things I i listen to ah in in that regard.
00:47:03
Speaker
No, I'm not a fan of of that cover either. There are cover versions i I do like. I'd really recommend you listen to the Me First and the Gimme Gimme's punk version Rocky Mountain. They're the from a Blur, like the the Not Damon album guys, that the other ones. yeah That's their group. Yeah. What you make of Star Trek's William Shatner? That's quite an infamous, like, you know, spoken word poetry version. I mean, as a poet myself who loves these lyrics, I think this is a lyric. This is where the music and the melody come together. I'm stripping it back and delivering it as a very earnest monologue.
00:47:43
Speaker
It's not great, is it? No, Dominic and I share multiple podcast experiences. We appear on a vegan podcast called Enough of the Falafel. And occasionally on that, we'll talk about instances where the meat industry would deliberately try and undermine new vegan products or the idea of, you know, fake meat things or lab grown meat. And now, you know, they'll put scare stories out there. I reckon someone from David Bowie's...
00:48:15
Speaker
paid William Shatner to do this because it's honestly, it's such an insult to Rocketman. It's an absolute car crash. i'm I'm also really not fan of the Kate Bush one because I think the name Kate Bush brings with it, rightly so, a Gravitas.
00:48:32
Speaker
She's fantastic. I think if I told you that that was Sheila, my next door neighbour, who'd recorded that in her bedroom, you'd be like, eh. Yeah, okay, well, well done for trying. It doesn't doesn't do it for me. You're entitled to your wrong opinion. If your name for Sheila did that, I'd be like, wow, she is a genius. What a reinterpretation of an already classic song.
00:48:55
Speaker
Quite right, but it was chosen as a single from Two Roots. I'd be rushing round to give her the Heimlich manoeuvre because it sounds like Kate Bush has got something stuck in her throat when she's singing it. Anyway, not for me, and but plenty of other good songs She's always like re-interpreting the melody. She goes, rocket man, burning up. Oh, it's so good.
00:49:16
Speaker
It's so good. It's out of time, Dominic. She doesn't know how the words scan. she like She gets to the end of a bit of music and she's like, oh so I haven't finished the lyric. oh well i soset No. No. I think it's objectively bad. Have you heard a candle in the wind?
00:49:33
Speaker
um No, I mean, that rock her Rocketman interpretation is in the best advert, but I'll give it a go. On me on the two rooms thing, everybody does 70s stuff apart from Sinead O'Connor, who sings Sacrifice, and everybody says a little bit about why they chose their song, and Sinead O'Connor, all she says is, I can't believe no one sang Sacrifice.
00:49:53
Speaker
Candle in the Wind. And I remember reading that skin being like, good, because we need more 80s and 90s. I mean, Two Rooms actually came out before a lot of, you know, Lion King or stuff like that. But um I was so glad there was a Latter-day choice on there because I love Latter-day Elton John, some of it. But yeah, Kate Bush does sing Candle in the Wind and it's it's all right. Okay, I'll give that a check out, see if Kate can redeem herself with her Elton material, in my opinion. um Some facts for the Elton nerds amongst you. i definitely identify as an Elton nerd myself.
00:50:25
Speaker
Definitely not a disparaging term. The opening lines came to Bernie Taupin during a long drive to his parents' house. He didn't have a pen with him, so he just had to repeat them to himself for two hours to remember them. There is dedication to your craft. Probably worth it, I think. I think if I knew I was going to sell as many records as Bernie Taupin has of of Rocket Man, I would chant something for two hours in a car journey. Apparently, the idea for the lyric came from Ray Bradbury's The Rocket Man, which is a short story. You can look it up on Wikipedia if you just bash in The Rocket, open brackets, short story. A bit of sci-fi by American writer Ray Bradbury, like I say. NASA. have played this song to the start the day broadcast for crews aboard the space shuttle and the international space station which is uh quite incredible um in terms of its success um got to number two in the uk it got to number six in the us so a a major hit single as well as being part of this album which as we know as an album reached number one in the US. s On 6th of January 2024, Rocketman surpassed 1 billion streams on Spotify. It's been ranked as 242 in the list of Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time. In the revised 2021 version of that list, it was listed as the 149th
00:51:55
Speaker
greatest song of all time. Definitely a hit by all definitions of the word, which is something we can't say about the next track, Salvation, but album tracks have just as much esteem in our eyes.
00:52:11
Speaker
Dominic, what do you think of this particular album track, Salvation? I think it sounds longer than it is. It's not actually that long and it feels longer. and I think it's a really earnest lyric, which I think would be, and I'm quite a fan of on the nose.
00:52:30
Speaker
Oh, you know, come on people, let's change the world for good. But after the, i would argue, great lyrics and open lyrics of Rocketman, ah which again, you know, people can interpret in different ways, bring a lot to, I think Salvation, think if it had a more, I'd like to hear Salvation done in a musical way, in a honky cat or kill myself kind of way. don't know. It's just, it's a little bit, for me, it's a little bit of a come down. It's not awful.
00:52:57
Speaker
It's going to be my joint lowest scored song on the album. When I score it, I think it's, it's all right. There's this, it's not bad, but it comes after rocket man.
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think the um we've we've spoken about the sort of real gospel ballad, no, not ballad, but like the the power of border song in that that real gospel feel to it. It needs that if it's going to go for it. I agree, yeah. where Whereas the musical accompaniment Feels just like a good pop album song. that that There's a bit of a country twang to it. There's ah there's ah a decent Davy Johnson guitar solo in there. it It was actually the first song recorded when they were recording Honky Chateau. So maybe they were warming up musically. The the vocals are great, I think. i mean, we've we've said already great harmonies on... on this album as well as Madman Across the Water, the previous album. So musically, it's you know it's got a lot going for it. I like how just before the last verse, the the build-up of of layers cuts right back again. it's It's got a lot going for it, but the lyrics are r on the nose, aren't they? It's not as euphoric as something like Border Song. yeah You've got to really go for it ah yeah or choose different subject matter for the lyric, I think. And a lot of my feelings about Salvation can be carried forward to Slave, which I do prefer mildly.
00:54:28
Speaker
i did have the 95 re-release at the fast version of Slave. And here's my view. I think the slow version's too slow and the fast version's too fast. i would like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a middle ground, really. And I think what damages the songs Salvation and Slave, both of which I really well intended, is that we've got Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's coming up, which is up there with my favourite Elton John songs ever, and is Leonard Cohen level of lyricism and subtle musicality. And when you've got an album like that, then...
00:55:06
Speaker
Slave and Salvation just aren't as good, you know. And I mean, Rocketman, it's an anthem. So I think that it does make... The other songs, you know, maybe if Slave was on Empty Sky, I'd be more favourable to Slave because I adore Empty Sky, but there isn't anything as good as Mona Lisa and Mad Hatter's on Empty Sky.
00:55:29
Speaker
I mean, if you listen for you know how much I love that record, but it doesn't have like a huge hit on it or a huge masterpiece like Mona Lisa's. What do you make a Slave? Yeah, I agree. It's better than Salvation. um I wondered about it featuring on the Tumbleweed connection. it's It's evocative of the same sort of era and part of the world. It's got a similar musical feel. I've been critical of, I've been very complimentary of Davey Johnson's general guitar work, but a couple of solos I've not been a big fan of on this album. I think the solo on this one works really well. It fits really nicely. My critique in in previous tracks has been that it's it just jars, whereas I think this one works really nice. Yeah, it's it's fine, isn't it? It's fine. it's like
00:56:18
Speaker
I think it's forgettable. And like you say, maybe that's because it's in and amongst Rocketman, like you say, Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's. There is another track that we're yet to discuss that I...
00:56:30
Speaker
possibly my favorite really shall we go on to that one shall we um we will i do just want to say we are we've really complimented elton's uh vocal range some of the way that he eat sings things um there's a falsetto that he does towards the end of the chorus in slave but i yeah i think is ill-advised He is a hundred times the better singer than me and a thousand million times the musician. So, you know, I'm not saying I could do it better, but I, yeah, I think that could have done with a review for a trusted critical friend to say, maybe should we write a different melody? But yes, next track. Let's talk about the next track, Dominic.
00:57:18
Speaker
Let's hear your views, Anthony. Go on, go for it. Because i'm feeling I'm feeling the passion. I think this song is incredible. I think it's fantastic. Completely underrated. I think if you... A lot of people... We'll will talk on the next episode about the song Daniel. You've mentioned other songs like Blue Eyes or or things like that. I'm definitely not putting the two together. But I think when people, particularly people, are rage... maybe younger, they'll see Elton as ah an older person, oh, he sits down, he doesn't dance around the stage. of course, at the start of his career, he very much did, but he's at the piano. Oh, I can guess what this music's gonna sound like. I've heard some of his hits. Yeah, okay. If you play them this song, Amy, And a lot of credit has to go to Nigel Olsen, Dee Murray, Davy Johnston as well. But the way that it blends together musically is absolutely fantastic. So rock and roll without the need for Paul Buckmaster arrangements. I mean, I've i've enjoyed a lot of Paul Buckmaster's string arrangements and stuff that really elevated his early albums that that the Elton did. But You don't need any of that in this. Again, that the song is about yearning for a girl called Amy. And that's so well reflected in the music. Again, it's asynchronous. So that the instruments are playing. They're not quite coming together, but they're interacting with with each other. And it's it's working. And then in the chorus, it will like come together. and then And then it will fall apart again slightly afterwards, but in a way that is really...
00:58:56
Speaker
backing up the subject matter of the song. Elton's style of singing and the rhythm that he's singing in as well, he's kind of going deliberately out of time at points, again, to kind of stress that yearning when he's he's talking about, there's a line where he says, I don't whistle at you down the street.
00:59:17
Speaker
I would if I could, but I can't whistle, you see. Like the whole thing is about, oh, I just want to be able to get my hands on this person but they're just out of reach and I'm not quite good enough the last little strain of Amy I may not be James Dean Amy I may not be 19 and I may still be in romper boots and jeans but ooh Amy you're the girl that wrecks my dreams it's a fantastic song about unrequited wouldn't even say it's love it's lust isn't it it's longing and i I think it's fantastic and I think it's a crime that this is not
00:59:53
Speaker
better known but I'm secretly a bit glad that I know about it because then you can go boom listen to this it will blow your mind but it might not blow everyone's mind I'm interested as to what you think Dominic I love it I think I prefer Susie and I'm just really trying having heard your monologue there your impassioned plea to recognize the genius I'm like oh is it maybe because it's like after two songs that don't ignite me so much. It is brilliant.
01:00:27
Speaker
I don't know. And you've you've really, you've quoted the lyrics. I just found the lyrics to Susie a little bit more um unusual. I found them. I found them a little bit more poetic myself.
01:00:41
Speaker
But yes, Amy has got that classic Elton John feel that I adore, that I wish... I'm not saying I want every song to sound the same. Far from it. When we were reviewing Madman, I was a big defender of the song, all the nasties for being experimental and different. And I do applaud that. But, is yeah, I enjoyed hearing you talk about it. And, i of course, it's wonderful. is wonderful. And let's hope... Lirically, it's more on the nose. yeah i mean like like you say susie is poetic i i think the relatively speaking the crassness of the lyric i think it's still it's still clever lyrics yes it's not like oh wanna you know i won't say it but it's it's not yeah but i i think that
01:01:34
Speaker
that fits perfectly that fits the tone of it and there's there's great little images in there that's my dad told me amy's your name said he'd break my neck if i played you game but he can bust my neck because i love you all the same okay like it's it's quite basic repetition but I think it does a great job. And I think just musically, it's we've we've spoken about in in the last show, we spoke about all the nasties where there's experimental musical things going on. that You can see the promise. It's not quite peak, but you can see what they're trying to do. This, I feel like there's experimental stuff going on, or maybe they're just jamming and having a great time. But it it comes together in a way that really represents...
01:02:22
Speaker
what the lyric is trying to provide, particularly that ending, like it it that the the last verse and and phrase, it keeps going, it extends longer than it previously has done earlier on in the song, because he's just trying to get it like I am now. I can see you've got something say, Dominic, and I'm just trying to get, no, I'm straining to get this last thing out. Amy, please listen to me. I'm going to give yet more praise that you've not given it. I'm not going to count a point you, um I think that Amy, with its teenage longing, sounds like it belongs on the same album as Hercules and I Think I'm Gonna Kill Myself and Honky Cat. All those songs sound like they belong on the same album. I also think that Amy sounds like it belongs on the same album as Susie and Rocketman and Mona Lisa and Manhattas. I don't feel there's any jar going from Amy to Mona Lisa. So I think that Amy...
01:03:21
Speaker
is a song that I think fits both camps, the the the singer-songwriter Mona Lisa's and Rocket Man, and the more kind of upbeat. You definitely this same character singing Amy could be singing I Think I Want to Kill Myself. It could be the same voice. I think that's brilliant about Amy. However, it doesn't mean that I think that Honky Cat and Mona Lisa's complement each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. my My final thing that I will say about this one is get to a space where you can put the music on loud, turn the bass up, have a good dance around to this one, enjoy it. And if it's the first time you're listening to it, like I encourage you to do this, have that music up loud. And I...
01:04:10
Speaker
The ah ending, I really love the ending. i'm not gonna I'm not going to spoil it because there might be folk listening to this album because, sorry, this episode because they like Rocketman or you they've never heard Amy before. um And yeah, I really like the ending of it.
01:04:28
Speaker
That's all. Will there be people who haven't heard Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's before? I'll tell you what I haven't heard. I'm aware that there's a part two, isn't there, on a later album. And I've never, despite my clear adoration, I've never listened. but Have you listened to part two?
01:04:46
Speaker
Dominic, the film Die Hard is a favourite in my household. Christmas Eve, that is what we watch. Die Hard 2, we have had on in the background in the room because there is negative opinion. about it as a sequel and that's all I'm going to say about this part two listen to it once for the sake of this show and ah see now you've you've you've put like you know reverse psychology on me I really want to love it um
01:05:17
Speaker
I will go as far as say that I think Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's is up there with the best songs. And of course, samples. I keep banging on about how much I love the ah dance track, Say Good Morning to the Night. I think that everything about this song is, you know, the lyrics. oh if you'd written those words, stunning, so open, but so specific, really...
01:05:46
Speaker
Oh, amazing. And just the the the trusting. When Elton has got so much big production on other songs, not least of all Rocketman, like strings and ah technical studio wizardry, to to have so much faith in the melody and your voice. Because he doesn't over-sing it. It's not like a big... It's not border to song.
01:06:13
Speaker
It's a completely different piece. It is perfection. It is Elton that is most Leonard Cohen-y. It really is. If you haven't heard Mona Lisa's, it really is like top notch, top notch. And like you say, it's just enough backing vocals. Like, you know, that the mandolin is clearly audible. i'd I'd say it's reasonably prominent, but it's not overshadowing. the basic building blocks of piano and voice. That's, you know, that's the core of this song. And and that's really nice, I think, in terms of we can debate whether it's, you know, the the flow of the album works, having Amy and then and then this um preceded by Slave and Salvation. But in terms of showing...
01:07:05
Speaker
What Elton can do for, and the band can do for a track like Amy, and then followed by this, which probably is more in line with what people might expect from an Elton John album track. It's showcasing all those stereotypical things of a piano playing singer-songwriter.
01:07:24
Speaker
and And the lyrics, that's such an important part of their partnership. So quite a lot is written about the lyrics, and understandably, because they're very strong. um They conveyed Bernie Taupin's take on New York City after hearing a gun go off near his hotel window during his first visit to the city. um The song's lyrics were partly inspired by Ben E. King's Spanish Harlem, written by Jerry Lieber and Phil Spector, in which he sings, There is a rose in Spanish Harlem.
01:07:53
Speaker
And in terms of how this song has been used, it's not been released as a single, but it was a B-side of Harmony that was released in 1980. Harmony, as we will find, was released 74, 73, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
01:08:09
Speaker
This album obviously is similar, end of the 70s, the start, but but both released much later. in 1980. And he's performed it lots of times um live and at quite significant events too, hasn't he, Dominic? It's quite moving. I have heard part two because my grandmother owned the VHS Elton John Live in Barcelona, which is the concert promoting the one album. And I don't remember it, but i'm just I just suddenly had a thought, I'm sure I remember...
01:08:47
Speaker
seeing Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's parts one and two. and I've just looked up on Wikipedia and indeed that is the case. So we did watch that more than once, more than once. So clearly like Die Hard 2, the sequel hasn't stuck in my in my memory. i must go and seek that live in Barcelona version to see. Are you familiar with live in Barcelona? Yeah. no don't think i've ever it's a patchy concert it one of the the things that it really brags is that he's got like big flashy costumes uh and i just thought oh for a music experience that seems an odd thing to lead with as a look at all the clothes and i know that's part of elton john's thing like flamboyance but yeah i mean it's an interesting selection of songs Yes, yeah, it is. Dominic and I clearly big fans of this, as is often the case, um a song that you're a massive fan of, then cover versions have to work quite hard to live up to that. And I would say of the many, many cover versions of this song, most disappoint in my opinion ah ones that are worth listening to um Sibela Marley has got a lovely soft feminine voice that that brings something different to it uh same can be said for Ruma R-U-M-E-L There's a very different version by someone called Buckshot Le Fonc, which as the suggestion as the name suggests, has a bit of funk to it. Orville Peck is probably my favourite cover version of it. Really powerful. um And I'm also grateful for cover versions of this song for bringing me to... the Twinkle Twinkle Little Rockstar album, which is ah lots of lullabies played on a music box for for children. And there is a Mona Lisa's and Manhattan's version of that, as well as a few other Elton songs on there for very, very small children. But yeah, can't beat the original, in my opinion.
01:10:53
Speaker
I don't mind Hercules. It sounds to me like the theme tune to a Saturday morning kids cartoon. And Hercules very much belongs in the honky cat category. It's all right, isn't it? But it's not... I mean, you've got that. it It's just...
01:11:12
Speaker
Contextually, I really feel strongly about sequencing of songs on records and Hercules doesn't belong after Mona Lisa's. It does itself no favours by following that. Like our next album, Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player, ends with High Flying Bird.
01:11:33
Speaker
If you swapped Hercules, the order of the, and add Crocodile Rock after High Flying Bird, it would be awful. It would be awful. But High Flying Bird after Crocodile Rock is good sequencing and High Flying Bird is a beautiful way to close that album. I think that Mona Lisa's should have been the closing track. This whole album could be better if the the identical same songs were just in a different order. Maybe even like a jaunty side and a more mellow side, perhaps. Yeah. Okay, Dominic, I'm going to ask you now, if you've got all the tracks in front of you, I'm going to ask you to customise your... Oh! shut Come on. Oh, that'll take me some time. Let's have a thing. Okay, well, I'll tell you what, what you while you're writing your ideal list, I haven't spoken about this track. I do like it. I think it's it's no Amy, it's no Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's, so it does feel like an odd choice to end the album. I mean, Elton's identity is...
01:12:38
Speaker
important to him as as much as it is to anyone, perhaps even more so as ah you know ah a superstar, somebody who performs, somebody who is liable to critique. So perhaps finishing the album with a track that is named after his new middle name, his new house that he's moved into, maybe that's why it's it on on the end. I think it's a decent album track. The the rhythm of the guitar, I think, is is nice and upbeat. The vocal is really nice and echoey. The lyrics, I think there's something to be said in favour of the the lyrics. there's a There's a few flowery twists to it. um but but The second verse is...
01:13:20
Speaker
It's my favorite. It's not too profound. Some men like the Chinese life. Some men kneel and pray. Oh, well, I like women and I like wine. And I've always liked it that way.
01:13:30
Speaker
Always liked it that way. there's There's bits of repetition in there. It's it's not going to win any prizes, but I think it does a job. More importantly, I fixed Honky Shatter. Oh, let's hear it. Come on. Exclusive. The definitive, the new 2026 release. Right, this is it. I fixed the album. Right, track one, Hercules.
01:13:55
Speaker
yeah That's the start, Hercules. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Track two, Amy. Oh, yeah, yeah. Track three, I think I'm going to kill myself, following Amy. Yes.
01:14:05
Speaker
Yes. Track four, Susie. And track five, end of part one, Honky Cat. Yes. That a beautiful first half. Hercules, Amy, Kill Myself, Susie, Honky Cat. Beautiful first half.
01:14:22
Speaker
Switch over for side two. Track one, Rocket Man. Yeah. Track two, Mellow. Track three, Salvation. Track four, Slave.
01:14:33
Speaker
And final track, Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's album fixed. Do you know what? That does do such a good job, doesn't it? I still i still think Salvation and Slave led let it down. However, I'm going to commit to this now, Dominic. Once we get off this recording, I'm going to set up a Spotify playlist and and name it Honky Chateau, the order that they should have released it. Maybe we need to do that for every album. yeah No need with Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player. That is great sequencing. Interesting. Well, we'll get on to that when we get on to that one. And really, that is our next topic of conversation because we've come to the end of Honky Chateau.
01:15:21
Speaker
there has been 1995 re-release of this it's not that different though is it yeah as formally discussed uh previously discussed slave a fast version and like i said earlier i think that if they'd had uh you know somewhere midpoint that would have been my preference as well as the 95 re-release there was a 50th anniversary version uh with all the the demos and a few live recordings so that's also worth checking out Indeed.
01:15:52
Speaker
But the moment that the podcast has been waiting for, we need to do the scores. We have got 10 tracks to compare and contrast here. Currently in the lead is the Tumbleweed Connection with a score of 82.5%.
01:16:08
Speaker
If this one's to get in the top three, it needs to beat Madman Across the Water at 76.61%. So we're going to rate each And then we're going to rate things like the album art, the album name, stuff like that. So track one, Dominic, Ponky Cat. Not your favourite? What you're giving it? Oh, but it is good. It's objectively good. Eight.
01:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, I've got eight, which um that that show that's a good... Good illustration of the difference between mine and Dominic's scoring. ah Eight for me is ah is a favourite. So yeah, okay, on to Mello. I've gone for a seven, just that yeah just the last minute or so in that one. It's long, isn't it? Seven for me too.
01:16:56
Speaker
Okay, goodness me, we're paired. That's never happened before. We've never had our first two scores exactly the same as one another. Will it continue? It definitely won't. I think I'm going to kill myself. Track three, what have you gone for? Oh, I've ummed and ah'd and ummed and ah'd and ummed and ah'd.
01:17:11
Speaker
I'm going to go for a seven. okay ah unusual for me to beat you i've given it an eight um i'm a fan of that one i like its ironic music cally feel to it susie dramas i have gone for an eight or that one too what about ten on ten ten on ten first ten of the album and to finish the A-side, Rocketman. I've gone for a nine. There might have been a time in my life where I would have given it ten. Yeah, that's absolute blasphemy. People are just going to turn off the podcast now. They're going to what is happening to Yeah, it's a clear, the correct ah answer is ten out of ten. That's why's why I'm giving it.
01:17:57
Speaker
I couldn't listen to it all day. and that is You know, that's what it boils down to, but it's objectively a cracking piece of music. on to the b-side salvation i've gone for a six which is my lowest of the album now you're a little higher i'm gonna go for seven okay okay moving on to slave i have gone for a seven for that one ah eight eight for dominic
01:18:28
Speaker
No surprises. Amy, 10 on 10. That's definitely my top 10 Elton songs ever, Amy. If not top five, what about you? Wow, superb. It's a nine from me. Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's, I reckon it's four marks all around, right?
01:18:45
Speaker
It is double ten. Yeah, i think we haven't said that since ah your song. I think we both gave a double ten to it. Maybe Bordersong as well. No, Leave On.
01:18:55
Speaker
Leave On we gave. Oh, did we? Yes. um And yeah, Bordersong and your song. So that is in esteemed company and the final track of the album. Hercules, I've given an eight. What about you, Dom?
01:19:11
Speaker
Wow, we really are bang on the nail. I've agonised over these scores. They've been carefully considered. Eight from me as well. Super duper. So, for me, that makes Honky Chateau equal first. I've given it exactly the same average score as Elton John. I've given it 8.1. Dominic, your 8.4 makes it your third highest album after Tumbleweed Connection, your number one, and Empty Sky, your number two. It's edged out madman across the water by 0.07 so those two almost identical but we've got more things to rate and review the album name i've given this my lowest score of any album so far i've given it seven i think it's all right but um yeah what about you five and the artwork you go first
01:20:03
Speaker
I've given it a six, which I think is generous. It is generous. Three. Wowza. Wowza. I'm struggling to justify what that six is for. It's a picture of Elton.
01:20:22
Speaker
There's nothing offensive on there or or anything that I think is terrible. it's a It's a relatively poor picture of him. So I think I've been using your jujitsu scoring and kind of snow and and saying, well, there's only four things I can find wrong with it. If I was starting at zero and marking up, then probably I would have said three as well.
01:20:44
Speaker
Cover versions, I've gone for eight here, which is my equal highest score. because I think there's quite a few good cover versions, although Kate Bush's Rocket Man is in my opinion. What about you, Dom?
01:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'll go with eight. Yeah. Eight as well. Lyrics. I've gone for nine, which is my highest score for lyrics. Yeah. I mean, there aren't any bad lyrics. Nine.
01:21:09
Speaker
think there's stronger albums for lyrics, but it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just worth saying your scores for lyrics have been 10, nine, 10, nine, nine. Interesting. It'd be interesting when blue eyes baby's got blue eyes when when bernie uh goes yeah for a bit single man 1979 is an album my dad owned on uh vinyl so i know single man very well part-time love so uh yeah i've got lots to say about that burn three records
01:21:47
Speaker
ah For the music, I've given it my equal top score of 9 out of 10. What about you? Nine. Never gone higher than nine, Dominic. That's interesting. Will we reach a 10? Flop dodge. So if you completely dodge any flops in an album, that is 10 10. If every song is a flop, that would be 0 out of 10. I've gone for a 9 because although I'm not a fan of Salvation, Slave could be better.
01:22:15
Speaker
I think generally stuff's a pretty high standard and there's there's no tripe. So um I've given that a 9. What about you? I think given my new improved no questions asked, the best order of songs, best order, that's pushed it up.
01:22:31
Speaker
So yeah, I shall also go 9. Interesting. Interesting. And finally, hits. So a Dominic hit and an Anthony hit, not necessarily a top 40 hit.
01:22:42
Speaker
I have gone for an eight. um they could me There could have been more hits. There could have been more. Yeah, so I can't believe it we're in so much agreement after I'm also giving it an eight after the completely contrasting views we had for Empty Sky.
01:23:02
Speaker
We have kind of been pretty much in agreement over this one. we're we're We're like two women's menstrual menstrual cycles. We used to have enough time that our appreciation has converged. yeah More important than that ah poor metaphor is the final score of this one. I'm going to tell you Honky Chateau is not ranked number one.
01:23:26
Speaker
It is not ranked number two, but it is our number three, 77.25%. So it sneaks in between the 76% of Madman and the 78% of Elton John. So 77.25. Do you think that's fair, Dominic?
01:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. i think I probably do like it a bit more than the second album, but you know, there's, there's barely anything in it. It's less than 1%, isn't it? That's, uh,
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, ill I'll take that. I'll take that. I mean, I think most Elton fans will say, you're doing pretty well with this early 70s era. Pick any album and there'll be something exceptionally level of genius on it. Yeah, yeah. Well, especially if before breakfast on one day, he he manages to turn out Rocketman, Mona Lisa's and Mad Hatter's and Amy, like Flippin' Eck, to be a fly on the wall for those. Yeah, and 1973, the year where he would collaborate with Kiki D on the stage Stunning song, Lonnie and Josie, absolutely essential listening. The fairly good song, Super Cool, also on that Loving and Free Kiki D album, and the B-side, Last Good Man in My Life, 1973, A
01:24:45
Speaker
Very, very, very important year for Elton. January being the month in which Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player was released. So we will be talking about that on our next episode.
01:25:00
Speaker
Indeed. And spoiler alert, that is my favourite Elton album title. No way! Oh, title. okay Yeah, title. title. um that My bias is a as a pianist from the age of five, definitely. Now we always like to leave you with a teaser trivia
Unique Album Cover Trivia
01:25:18
Speaker
question. I deliberately asked Dominic to withhold some information during our description of this album because there is something very unique about this album cover for Honky Chateau that cannot be said for any other Elton John album cover. What is
01:25:36
Speaker
is it that is your teaser question we will reveal the answer at the top of the next show if you hadn't told me i don't think would have guessed even though it's it is obvious but i wouldn't i wouldn't get this question correct if i hadn't been told Well, listen, everyone, thank you so much for listening
Listener Engagement and Host Projects
01:25:54
Speaker
to us. And please do go out and create my definitive track order for this record, which I haven't planned in advance. I'm over the moon about that. ah You can get in touch and suggest your own rearranging of tracks or anything else you'd like to email us about at eltontheeltonpod at gmail.com.
01:26:16
Speaker
If you want to know more about Anthony and me, Anthony is on two podcasts, the Brambling Along podcast and also Enough Other Than Falafel, the vegan podcast on which I sometimes feature. I'm a poet and you can check out my stuff on dominicberry.net.
01:26:33
Speaker
Until next time, it is goodbye from Captain Don-tastic and the Brown Dirt and Poi. Goodbye. Goodbye.
Credits and Recommendations
01:26:46
Speaker
This podcast is hosted by Zencaster. We've used some sound effects from zapsplat.com. We've taken information from songfacts.com as well as sireltonjohn.fandom.com, the wiki. And I'd also really personally recommend you read Elton's autobiography, which is called Me. I listened to the audio version. It's narrated by Taron Egerton, which is excellent.
01:27:11
Speaker
We're indebted to all those who've helped create and share Elton's music and thanks again to James Cook and Paul Savage who inspired the format of this show.