Transcript
Speaker: Hi friends, I'm welcoming an incredible death doula to the show today.
Speaker: Death doula and so much more.
Speaker: I met Bodhi B through a person in the Ram Dass community who I met when I spent a few months on Maui.
Speaker: I had the privilege of attending a grieving ceremony hosted by Bodhi.
Speaker: This man is very comfortable in the death space and is incredibly knowledgeable.
Speaker: As a trainer of death doulas, he has wisdom to share on being with sick and dying people.
Speaker: In this episode, we are going to discuss things to think about, things to consider when entering the room of a dying person.
Speaker: I hope this helps you prepare to show up in the best possible way for your loved one.
Speaker: Thank you to Bodie B for joining me today.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: Hi, Bodie.
Speaker: I am incredibly grateful to have you here with me today.
Speaker: You have so much wisdom to share.
Speaker: So thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: Hi, Jamie.
Speaker: I'm glad to join you on your beautiful podcast.
Speaker: Would you mind sharing with the audience some inspiration or guidance that you received from someone close to you who has passed on in their honor?
Speaker: Well, now that some of my most dearest longtime friends are starting to die, who are my age, who are younger than I am, or older than I am, I think what they're all telling me and inspiring me to do is don't step off the gas pedal in terms of living my life all the way.
Speaker: Don't leave anything undone.
Speaker: I'm not talking about a bucket list.
Speaker: I'm talking about, you know, why am I here?
Speaker: And what do I need to continue to work on in terms of my beautiful life?
Speaker: Yes, and that's so beautifully said.
Speaker: And there is nothing like loving someone and losing someone to remind you of that preciousness of how short this life is.
Speaker: With your years of experience, I feel like we could have a million conversations together.
Speaker: And hopefully we will come back together.
Speaker: But since this show is in its infancy, I think we should start at the beginning with some basics.
Speaker: So if the listener is going to take the time to visit their person, why not be purposeful and set intentions?
Speaker: So if you want to just dive in.
Speaker: We could dive in.
Speaker: So we could start right there with what is your intention and purpose for going to visit a dying person?
Speaker: that's a very important piece to check in on, you know, what's your intention.
Speaker: And so to really tune into the truth of that intention would be to take some time to stop.
Speaker: And as we started, take a breath, you know, take some breaths.
Speaker: See if you can empty out and center yourself and come into the moment to ask for
Speaker: Connecting to what's your true intention.
Speaker: You know, are you needing something?
Speaker: Or are you really wishing to somehow support and bring even a moment of benefit to someone who's doing something you haven't done before and don't know what it's like to be doing?
Speaker: I would say, you know, again, in asking for guidance,
Speaker: That's a perfect time for a prayer.
Speaker: A prayer is really allowing your heart to touch the truth of why you're there and what you want to bring to the moment.
Speaker: And in prayer, asking for help.
Speaker: Asking for help from God or whatever name you give to that, which is the holiness itself.
Speaker: And as deeply as connected you are to that connection to the holiness is the deepest place you'll bring to the bedside of a dying person.
Speaker: And that means not thinking that there's any kind of agenda.
Speaker: And if you only see a dying person when you come into the room, you're missing an important opportunity to
Speaker: Because to only see the dying person is to see the story that's playing out and not to see the true heart and the true being inside of that story.
Speaker: That itself is big work.
Speaker: I probably spend a day teaching understandings and skills for being able to not only speak to the story that's playing out, to the suffering maybe,
Speaker: and the pain acting out in that story, if there is suffering and pain, but also being able to connect to the being inside of that story, to be able to meet that place and bring some benefit to someone who wants help in staying connected to that place in themselves.
Speaker: But in order for them to be connected to themselves or to be reminded to come back to that place in themselves, you need to be connected to that place in yourself.
Speaker: The part that's untouched by, let's say, the burning house that's burning down on the outside.
Speaker: And oftentimes dying people are only really seen as the poor dying person.
Speaker: and are craving either consciously or unconsciously to be seen beyond that story that's playing out.
Speaker: I love that so much.
Speaker: I can not imagine, obviously, but if I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who is sick or dying and to only have people come in and treat you in this different way, in this fragile way, and to not remember who you are
Speaker: as this living person that you still are, I think is really powerful.
Speaker: And as you're saying all of this, I'm also just thinking about pure presence.
Speaker: You know, we live in a very distracted society.
Speaker: Everyone always has their phone attached to them.
Speaker: Everyone always has a million thoughts as to where they just were and where they're about to go.
Speaker: And there's something in this about
Speaker: this intention setting, this, this rooting in this asking for guidance that, that puts you in this place of full attention, undivided attention.
Speaker: I think listening is one of the most important skills there is really not, not just at the bedside of a dying person, but in life itself.
Speaker: I think for the most part in the West, we weren't really taught to be good listeners.
Speaker: And I think we noticed few people are really good listeners.
Speaker: So when I speak about listening in this particular story, it's listening to what the dying person is saying, listening to what the family members around the dying person are saying,
Speaker: Family members often need the most care of anybody in the home and also listening to what they're not saying, what's not being said.
Speaker: Oftentimes, nobody wants to say somebody's actually dying.
Speaker: And then there's the internal listening.
Speaker: of being quiet enough to being guided by, we could call it the gut feeling or the insight or the spirit of guidance is what I call it sometimes, to help us stay out of the way of our own good intentions.
Speaker: And that's something to practice long before you get to the bedside of the dying person.
Speaker: And then to listen not only with the head, but to listen with the heart and to listen with the belly.
Speaker: Most oftentimes we listen with the head, which is really good if somebody's giving you directions to someplace.
Speaker: And oftentimes we listen with the heart, especially those of us who have a high level of empathy.
Speaker: Sometimes, in fact, we listen so much with the heart, we get drawn into it.
Speaker: And then go through those feelings where we could be hurt by those very feelings.
Speaker: Which is why sometimes it's most critical to be able to listen with the belly.
Speaker: And we're never really taught about what that is.
Speaker: And of course we want to really listen with all three of those ears.
Speaker: The head, the heart, and the belly.
Speaker: Could you give me
Speaker: an exercise, an example of listening with the belly.
Speaker: I've never even heard that before.
Speaker: I wouldn't know how to approach that.
Speaker: Well, first you make the belly soft.
Speaker: You know, they make the belly big and soft, you know, so you can get the belly can be as fat as possible.
Speaker: We're all used to kind of having tight bellies and sucking it in and
Speaker: And to have a fully relaxed belly opens up the possibility that, again, we come back to the gut feeling.
Speaker: You know, when people say I have a gut feeling about something, that's really what I'm talking about here.
Speaker: You know, how do you have a gut feeling?
Speaker: Well, your gut is sensing and feeling, and you pick up on it.
Speaker: When you're talking with someone, say, hey, while you're talking to me, I'm going to try to see if I can listen with my belly.
Speaker: And then you start to get a sense of what that is.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And we've all had gut feelings before.
Speaker: I've certainly had things that I would call gut instincts or following my gut.
Speaker: So trying to tune into that more and acknowledge what that feels like when it's happening to try to do that more often.
Speaker: Yes, the practice of noticing where you're listening from and connecting to them as beings.
Speaker: Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker: Then to really look around, you know, observe what you see in the space.
Speaker: To take it in without having opinions or judgments or labels is the house a mess, for example.
Speaker: Is there lots of medicines around?
Speaker: Is there breathing machines?
Speaker: What's happening in the space?
Speaker: What does the dying person actually look like?
Speaker: Do they look frantic and stressed?
Speaker: Then you'd want to know, are they on any medications?
Speaker: And what are those medications?
Speaker: And it's good to know what the effects of some medications are and what their side effects are.
Speaker: And the same with the family members.
Speaker: Are they relaxed?
Speaker: Are they calm?
Speaker: Are they uneasy?
Speaker: And, you know, how balanced and grounded is the whole scene?
Speaker: And we come back again to you brought up being grounded.
Speaker: Just being grounded and relaxed could be the most important thing you bring into the home of a dying person and their family.
Speaker: Yeah, especially if there is, like you said, like some frantic energy being felt there to try to help balance that out.
Speaker: And of course, at that moment, you might think the obvious thing to do is to wash some dishes or collect the dirty laundry and head to the laundry room.
Speaker: Sometimes the simplest things are the most profound and the most important that show that you care.
Speaker: that you care about the whole family and the whole scene.
Speaker: And in caring about the whole family, you're caring for the dying person.
Speaker: So we have some notions about what that care looks like.
Speaker: But sometimes it's bring a bowl of water for the dog.
Speaker: And again, that could be the biggest thing you did that day.
Speaker: And you think, well, that was no big deal.
Speaker: But it was.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: That makes sense to me.
Speaker: And sometimes the best thing you can bring is the ability to sit there and do nothing.
Speaker: Just be there.
Speaker: And be there in a way that you're not needy.
Speaker: You don't need anything from the family.
Speaker: You don't need them to acknowledge you.
Speaker: You don't need the dying person to thank you.
Speaker: The dying person could easily get angry at you and want you out of there.
Speaker: And I've seen that.
Speaker: I've been there.
Speaker: How do you receive that and not take it personal, not be offended that the dying person got really angry at you and threw you out of the house?
Speaker: How do you easily wash that off and go, okay, cool.
Speaker: I wasn't there for me.
Speaker: I was there for him or her.
Speaker: And that's the answer, right?
Speaker: It's that intention of this isn't about me.
Speaker: Why am I truly going to see this person?
Speaker: What is my intention?
Speaker: Is it for me?
Speaker: Is it my unfinished business or is it to be there for them?
Speaker: And then to think through some of these things that you're saying that these emotions could come up.
Speaker: And if they do, how am I going to handle it?
Speaker: And how am I going to not take that personally?
Speaker: Having some preparation beforehand to just have a plan without having a plan.
Speaker: Having a plan without having a plan.
Speaker: And of course, I like connecting with the family before I even walk into the room of the dying person to get a feel for what they're going through.
Speaker: And maybe I'm a stranger.
Speaker: As a hospice volunteer, often I'm a stranger.
Speaker: And so, you know, introducing myself in a way that
Speaker: again, hopefully bring some level of calm and grounded and relaxed energy to the space and making sure they know they're not there to entertain me.
Speaker: Because oftentimes people feel that way, some responsibility, which could become a burden to entertain the guest.
Speaker: So what do you say, for an example, if you're walking in,
Speaker: And this could be to someone that is a hospice caregiver and doesn't know the family or a friend maybe that doesn't know the family well that wants to make sure to relay that message so that it, you know, of their intention of being there.
Speaker: For me, it's just, you know, feeling my way into how to be myself and let people know I'm there to help any way I can.
Speaker: I don't need to do some high and mighty stuff.
Speaker: I'll sweep the floor.
Speaker: And of course, that helps people, in a sense, relax and let down.
Speaker: And I don't have one way I do it because, again, I'm just feeling my way into...
Speaker: Listening, looking around, getting a feel for how relaxed these people are or aren't, just giving some of the time of my life to see if I can add ease.
Speaker: I think ease is even better than comfort because sometimes the dying person is working stuff out and the family is working stuff out.
Speaker: Oftentimes it's hard work.
Speaker: Dying is work.
Speaker: And it's work for the family members.
Speaker: And they're all grieving.
Speaker: Way before somebody dies, they're already grieving.
Speaker: So I don't necessarily want to comfort them because sometimes it's like if you imagine sometimes you're sitting in a group of people and somebody starts falling apart in front of everybody.
Speaker: And sometimes you see somebody next to that person put their arm around them and kind of hold them or pat them or even say, oh, you know, try to comfort them.
Speaker: And I discourage people from doing that kind of thing because it often breaks in and interrupts what's wanting to express, what's wanting to move.
Speaker: And so I think make it easeful for people, I think, to me, is closer to true than comfort people.
Speaker: And I've seen it enough times to see how important that work is and how important it is for them to have their space to do that work without feeling like they need to be happy.
Speaker: In America, we're supposed to be happy.
Speaker: Or get over it.
Speaker: Or come on, what's wrong with you?
Speaker: You need to see somebody.
Speaker: And all such nonsense.
Speaker: So, I mean, that's a lot of it right there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: See if I can get a sense of what's really going on here.
Speaker: And if there's any way I can support that.
Speaker: And maybe it's just by being there.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: In the recognition that I did take time to show up for them.
Speaker: That means a lot to all of us, whether we're aware of it or not, when somebody will show up for us, period.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I have some experience being with people passing, and one of those was my great aunt, who was in her 90s, and she was in a nursing home.
Speaker: And I would go to visit her and...
Speaker: She was not responsive.
Speaker: You know, she was just tired from laying there.
Speaker: And I think at first I felt like I needed to fill the space with noise and would talk quite a bit and would try to share memories like that.
Speaker: But after going
Speaker: many times I found that just sitting there quietly with her and holding her hand that I truly just felt like she could feel my presence and that was you know that hopefully it was just love that she was feeling and that that was all that was needed and there was something in that shift and now that we had this conversation I'm realizing that at the beginning it was it was for me you know I felt like I needed
Speaker: to do something I needed to say something.
Speaker: But the presence was the piece that felt the most important.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: Somebody could be completely, could even be unconscious in a coma and more than likely could and would still feel your presence in the room and still hear you if you spoke or sang a song or read something.
Speaker: which is why it's not a good idea to talk about a dying person who's in that state in front of them.
Speaker: I think since we're almost out of time, I'll pick out another one.
Speaker: I think comfort in, dump out.
Speaker: I don't know if you've ever seen that circle, but that the dying person's in the middle of the circle.
Speaker: If you want to whine or complain,
Speaker: you turn it outwards to the people further away from the center of the circle.
Speaker: And in a way, you're also protecting that dying person from other people who want to dump in.
Speaker: Dump in means complain or get something off their chest or, again, people who are there for their own purpose to have a need to whine or complain.
Speaker: even if it's family members who are stressed out and taking care of a dying person, that they don't bring that stress to the bedside, that they take it to people further out of the circle.
Speaker: They take it to their friends, right?
Speaker: They take it to the hospice caregivers.
Speaker: And that the only thing you bring towards the center, towards the dying person, is love and comfort and care and, you know, heart.
Speaker: That's a really important piece.
Speaker: Yes, and it goes back to everything that we've talked about, and that is the intention and the lack of agenda.
Speaker: This is not where you're going to talk about your feelings and all of this.
Speaker: That can be shared with someone else.
Speaker: Is there anything else you would like to share before we close?
Speaker: I think the piece I touched on about to recognize that
Speaker: Grieving is already very present in the space.
Speaker: The family's not waiting until somebody dies to start grieving.
Speaker: They're already grieving that this person's going to die.
Speaker: The dying person, him or herself, is also grieving what's going away, what they're losing, what they're leaving.
Speaker: And in this culture, we're kind of grief illiterate and oftentimes become uncomfortable around other people's grieving, maybe because we have so much ungrieved grief of our own.
Speaker: And one of the things I teach death doulas is working with one's own grief and making friends with one's own grief and grieving.
Speaker: That's going to be the way you're going to be able to show up for somebody else's grieving.
Speaker: That's a big piece.
Speaker: And remembering something that you said at the grief ritual that I attended, and that is that grief is love, right?
Speaker: Grief is an expression of deep love.
Speaker: That's why we're here.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for talking to me and sharing this beautiful wisdom.
Speaker: I've learned a lot today and I would love to continue this conversation because I think we dipped a toe, but we certainly didn't get through it all.
Speaker: So maybe we can have another session together with your outfit.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: I feel like we covered a lot of ground in a short time.
Speaker: Some of the big takeaways are breathe, empty, center, ask for guidance.
Speaker: Practice following your gut instinct.
Speaker: Set your intention for visiting.
Speaker: Be flexible and don't take things personally.
Speaker: Do not see your person as only the poor dying person.
Speaker: Remember who they truly are.
Speaker: Be grounded and relaxed.
Speaker: Don't feel obligated to do anything at all.
Speaker: Your warm presence and the fact that you took time out of your day to visit is enough.
Speaker: Sometimes the simplest acts are the most profound and important.
Speaker: Sweep, do laundry, fill the dog's water bowl, offer to sit while the caregiver takes a walk.
Speaker: This makes it clear that you don't need to be entertained and you don't need anything from the family.
Speaker: Remember, comfort in, dump out.
Speaker: The dying person is in the middle of the circle and you want to protect them and those closest to them.
Speaker: Your stress and complaints should go outward to friends and people furthest from the center.
Speaker: Encourage others to do the same.
Speaker: Lastly, anticipatory grief is real.
Speaker: The dying person and their family are already grieving.
Speaker: and you likely are too.
Speaker: Be gentle to yourself and everyone sharing in the grieving process.
Speaker: Thank you for your time today.
Speaker: Please follow, rate, and share this podcast with anyone else who could benefit from this information.
Speaker: As always, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker: You can connect with me through our website, lightattheendpod.com.
Speaker: Take good care.
