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What is The Clearing?
65 Plays6 days ago
Sylvia Kamande is joined by Lisa Sharon Harper to discuss The Clearing. They reflect on this time of economic difficulty for many Black and Brown women, the toll that takes on their health and relationships, and the importance of moving forward in community. They also share about the preconference event The Clearing, happening on October 7, 2026, in Richmond, where women of color are invited to connect, learn, and grow together.
Click here to learn more about The Clearing and register for the CCDA Conference at ccda.org/conference.
Lisa Sharon Harper is the founder and president of Freedom Road, a groundbreaking consulting and communications group. Lisa is a theologian whose writing, speaking, activism, and training have sparked and fed the fires of re-formation in the church from Ferguson and Charlottesville to South Africa, Brazil, Australia, and Ireland. Having earned an MFA in playwriting from the University of Southern California and an MA in Human Rights from Columbia University, Lisa’s play An’ Push da Wind Down won the 1996 Kennedy Center/American College Theater Festival Michael Kanin Award for Best Student Play and Best Production. Lisa’s book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family And The World--And How To Repair It All was named 2022 “Book of the Year” by Word and Way. The Very Good Gospel was named 2016 “Book of the Year” by Englewood Review of Books. Lisa is host of the Freedom Road Podcast, cohost of The FOUR Podcast, and author of her Substack column, “The Truth Is…” The Huffington Post identified Lisa as one of 50 Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day. Lisa is currently earning her PhD in womanist ethics at the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam and serving as Affiliate Faculty at St. Stephen’s University in Canada. Learn more at lisasharonharper.com.
Sylvia Kamande serves as Director of Family Ministry at Because Justice Matters, in San Francisco’s Tenderloin neighbourhood. Originally from Kenya, she has spent more than 15 years in full-time ministry serving alongside diverse communities across Africa, Latin America, and the United States. She is a co-church planter with El Camino Covenant Church and co-leads the Women of Color Network within the Christian Community Development Association (CCDA). Sylvia is passionate about equipping leaders, cultivating belonging, and creating healing-centered spaces where children, families, and communities can experience restoration and abundant life in Jesus.
Learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved at ccda.org. Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.
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Transcript
Introduction of Lisa Sharon Harper
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the CCDA podcast. My name is Sylvia Kamande. I co-lead the Women of Color Affinity Network for CCDA. I'll now be your host today. and today I'm joined by the lovely Lisa Sharon Harper.
00:00:23
Speaker
Lisa, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, Sylvia. Really great to see you and to be in conversation today. Yes, I'm excited for conversation too.
Lisa's History and Understanding of Justice
00:00:32
Speaker
Lisa, I've got the pleasure of of speaking to you on different occasions, but for our listeners who have not met you yet, could you really share a little about who you are, the work that you do with the Freedom Road, with the work with racial dealing and justice, and just the work you've been doing over the years?
00:00:46
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, I came to know CCDA way back in the day. I think it was only a few years old, 1991. was student at the Brazil Institute for Urban Ministry in Los Angeles when that church and, well, the church that it was connected to and the institute actually hosted the regional gathering of Los Angeles CCDA.
00:01:07
Speaker
It was awesome. It was incredible. And it was my first time to actually meet Dr. John Perkins face-to-face I had been introduced to his work through the Here's Life Inner City summer missions program with Campus Crusade back during my college years. And we read, you know, With Justice for All and Let Justice Roll Down. And both of those books were just critical, central to my understanding of what it meant to follow Jesus
Racial Healing Efforts and Pilgrimage Insights
00:01:32
Speaker
back then. But meeting him face-to-face was something, something different. And also meeting the CCDA community was something different because I was beginning to see how this all works out in real time. And the church that I was going to, l a First Church of the Nazarene, it ended up being like a really seminal church for the restoration, the bringing back of Los Angeles after the LA uprising in 1992, in large part because of its commitment to those three R's.
00:02:01
Speaker
relocation, redistribution, and reconciliation. And so because of its commitment, I got to be a part of the racial healing of Los Angeles.
00:02:12
Speaker
Since then, I joined staff with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, where I was on staff with them for about 10 years, and took a pilgrimage while I was on staff with them that changed my life. We retraced the Cherokee Trail of Tears for for the first two weeks of our pilgrimage, and the second two weeks, we retraced the African experience in America,
00:02:31
Speaker
from slavery through civil rights. And the whole time we were asking, what is the gospel? Like, what is what is the good news of Jesus? And I have to say, I was rocked when I realized that my understanding of the good news had nothing to say.
00:02:47
Speaker
it just had nothing to say to the most evil things that had happened on American soil, both stories of which have intersection with my own family's story.
00:02:59
Speaker
So that left me pretty rocked at the end of that summer, really went into a year of depression, and came out of that year doing deep investigation of the biblical concept of shalom. And it's that concept that has shaped my work ever since
Founding of Organizations and Leadership Roles
00:03:14
Speaker
then. I left InterVarsity and got my master's degree in human rights. I started to, with a a company of people, built an organization called New York Faith and Justice to unite the church in order to end poverty in New York City. We were we know we had high aspirations. What can I say? I was in my 30s, right? So the the vision of Shalom powered work.
00:03:37
Speaker
that was aiming for a just world, not only because of some social, you know, secular thing, but because that's the vision of God.
00:03:48
Speaker
God wants at the heart of who we are and what we do for us to be in radically good relationship with ah all things and all peoples. and with ourself and with the systems that govern us.
00:04:03
Speaker
So that really shaped my work in those early 2000s. And i ended up going to and Sojourners and working with them for six years. And now I run Freedom Road, which is a consulting and communications group, and really education. We help the church to understand what justice is and to do justice more justly. So we do that through pilgrimages because that was one of the big ways that it impacted me. We also do that through the designing and and creation of convenings and trainings and ah consulting and coaching. So all of the things.
00:04:42
Speaker
I know that we are going to be talking today about one of our forums that we are putting together called The Clearing. Yes. And I'm looking forward to talking with you about that. Yes. Lisa, I love that. can just see the threads of how every experience you've had over your life has just been this catalyst for like the next thing and the next thing.
2025 Financial Struggles and Systemic Issues
00:05:00
Speaker
And the threads of your own personal story and racial justice and and healing have also just led to like where you are right now. And like you talk about like the clearing. So let's go back to the beginning of 2020 25, right? Yes.
00:05:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, look, the shift really started in my mind with me. i mean, in my experience, I experienced the shift and Freedom Road experienced the shift. In January of 2025, we got phone calls from people who had been saying they wanted to work with us that suddenly said, we don't have any money anymore. Like their their funding dried up, so they couldn't work with us anymore. We had a contract, the contract we were depending on for our income for 2025.
00:05:50
Speaker
went poof. In mid 2024, we began to see the inklings of that. Another contract that was also supposed to be sustaining us in 2025 went poof. The bottom line, it was because funders and also some new leaders who had just come in to leadership in these organizations we were working with no longer had a vision for racial justice and racial equity. In fact, anything having to do with what they call DEI, and people were running from. And so as a result, our work went poof.
00:06:21
Speaker
Now, it turns out that industry was an industry led in large part by black women. And so that industry, the DEI industry, in other words, the people who were leading the church and the world into more just relationships with each other,
00:06:37
Speaker
suddenly were cut off, pushed out of the American economy. And then along with that, within the federal government in July of last year, one year ago, a report came out on fortune.com that revealed that 300,000 black women had been pushed out of the American economy just in the first four months of last year, from between January and April, maybe going into May of last year. And so there was just a real sense of, whoa, what is happening here? And will this be able to pick up? I've never experienced anything like it before.
00:07:14
Speaker
on top of that, you also had not only us who were now pushed out of the economy, but there were hundreds of thousands of other people who were pushed out. So now you have a glut of people trying to get jobs and there's not enough jobs and Not only are there not enough jobs, but jobs are being cut because of doge and all the things. So there was a true crisis. By the end of the year, Katika Roy, the woman who wrote the original report in July of 2025, that revealed 300,000, she updated her numbers. her numbers November 2025 said that almost 700,000 Black women had been pushed out and her numbers in by november of twenty twenty five
00:07:48
Speaker
said that almost seven hundred thousand black women had been pushed out blocked out of the American economy. Now, I had her on my podcast and she explained, she kind of went, dug into those numbers and she explained that that is a dire situation for the black community. We're not talking about intergenerational poverty. We're talking about folks who are making six figures, people who are making the high five figures or six figures. They were solidly middle-class, solidly upper middle-class in many cases. Now,
00:08:25
Speaker
completely pushed out of work. And mind you, Black women are the most educated per capita people group in America. There are more PhDs per capita among Black women than in any other people group in the United States of America.
00:08:42
Speaker
And yet this is the group that was pushed out of businesses and all of the sectors. As Kadokoroy put it, there was an absolute restructuring of access.
00:08:54
Speaker
that happened in 2025. And I experienced that as push out of our contracts. Toward the end of the year, especially after reading that first article, I started asking my friends, I started you know calling friends and saying, what's your experience been? What's your experience been? And one by one, every single black woman I knew Every last one of them was in financial crisis.
00:09:21
Speaker
The last woman that just made such a big impression on me as a new friend, somebody I just met, I asked her, you know, how's the year been for you? And she rolled her eyes and she said, girl, I've actually stopped looking at my credit report.
00:09:34
Speaker
I said, oh, my goodness. Like, you know, it's bad when you stop looking. and And I have to say, my credit means a lot to me. I fought for my credit over the years and I knew what she was talking about. I didn't stop looking at it, but I was like in dread because you could see it. You could see it plummeting because you just had no resources.
00:09:54
Speaker
And there was nowhere to turn. And so, um thankfully, God is God. And what I found out is that even without resources, you still live day to day. The next day still
Personal Financial Turnaround and Purpose
00:10:06
Speaker
comes. The sun still rises. And there are widows in Zarephath. I mean, in the same way that Elijah fed the widows in Zarephath, God Zarephath.
00:10:18
Speaker
people to feed me over the course of that year. My mom, thank God for my mom. She lives with me, actually. I moved her in with me during COVID. And so she was able to sustain us over the course of the year. And then God really intervened. And let me share with you how he and intervened.
00:10:34
Speaker
In December of 2025, beloved auntie who was struggling for years with Alzheimer's and and other ailments, she finally passed into her glory.
00:10:47
Speaker
And as her final act, she had requested that I come and I i speak at her funeral. And so I spoke and at the repass, I ended up sitting with cousins I never knew. I'd never met before.
00:10:59
Speaker
And we ended up talking about the horrible economic year that everybody had, especially the black women around the table. And one of those cousins is a man and he's a financial planner. And so he starts talking to us about like the ways we should be thinking about money in this era, the Trump era, the era where almost all of the people who are in government are all major business people. And he said, all of their personal credit is horrific. Because business people tap all of their personal resources in order to build their businesses. So they don't really live off of their personal credit. They live off of their business credit.
00:11:35
Speaker
And I was like, oh, my gosh. So he starts giving me all this wisdom. I said, can you be my financial planner? Yeah. No joke. And I've been looking, I've been literally been thinking, God, I need a financial planner. Like I need somebody with money wisdom to come in and intervene. And then here he is at my auntie's repast. I mean, like my auntie like literally put us, he's like, you have a resource you didn't know that you had. So he's like, sure, I'll be your financial planner. So we literally met every week, once a week in December and then also going into January and he's still my financial planner to this day. Wow. And he's going to be for in time of memoriam. But and at the tour the end of December, I was just amazed at turnaround that began to happen for me.
00:12:21
Speaker
And i mean, truly quick, right? Like he he he took the pulse. He knew what was going on in every aspect of my financial life. And then he said, this is our plan.
00:12:32
Speaker
And so by the by the first first week of January, I i i entered 2026 with a plan and have been working that plan ever since. And God also intervened and Again, prayer works. I was praying hard. And and literally, the Lord in some ways dropped a job into my my lap. And it wasn't just any a job. It was literally perfect for me.
00:12:56
Speaker
It was only temporary. And so you know i'm I'm still hustling. I'm still out there you know getting that next contract. But 2026 a different year. I think in many ways, the people who are afraid to to invest in racial justice now understand where the logics of white supremacy get us. They do not help anyone. And so people are now beginning to reinvest in in understanding this and understanding how we got 2025.
00:13:23
Speaker
to twenty twenty five And in addition, the place that God gave me, is just the grace of God, it was actually a role of, I filled in for a friend who was on parental leave.
00:13:34
Speaker
And the role that I filled in was that a director of policy and organizing for her organization. And it was perfect. It was just, I just thrived. And you know, one of the things that losing work does to anyone is suddenly you don't know what your purpose is.
00:13:54
Speaker
And I literally said to God halfway through the year, god who am I now? What is my role? What is my purpose here? i can't do what i I felt like you were calling me to do through Freedom Road.
00:14:08
Speaker
What am I supposed to be doing? I literally started looking for other jobs. I mean, literally putting out the the resume to all kinds of jobs and of course, never getting a bite back because there's a million people going after each of those jobs and And so what I found through this job that the Lord gave me for this four-month stretch is yeah I still got it. but um I still got it. still got it. I mean, it was like so it was a so the Lord. it was so God. Yes, I still got it. And what I have is still necessary for this world. And and and guess what?
00:14:43
Speaker
Black women still got it. And what we have is still necessary for this country.
Creation and Significance of The Clearing
00:14:49
Speaker
And so I and my financial planner, Brian Walls, my cousin, we decided, let's take this on the road. Let's actually let's actually like bless Black women through this. We started this thing called The Clearing. And The Clearing, of course, is inspired by Baby Soaks Holy, Toni Morrison's book, Beloved, where Baby Soaks Holy calls the community to The Clearing. at ah At a point in the book and in the clearing, Baby Six Holy, who is like an, supposed she represents like the ancestors. She brings the people to the clearing and she says, you got to love yourself because ain't nobody else gonna love you.
00:15:28
Speaker
They would rather see your neck stretched. So you have to love your neck. You've got to love your face. You've got to love your liver.
00:15:39
Speaker
Because if you don't love you radically, nobody's going to love you. oh There's not a guarantee that anybody else is going to love you in this here world.
00:15:51
Speaker
And so it's it's a call to radical love. self-love and and also a radical centering of our own stories, the stories of Black women, and I would add now brown women, because of the trauma that has been laid on ah on the shoulders of brown women because of the exorbitant and brutal brutally violent pogrom against immigrants in the United States right now.
00:16:21
Speaker
Brown women's economies have actually begun to dry up as well. Yep, that's true. And there's a sense of not not knowing if they belong. So the clearing is specifically a place for women of color to come and to be filled back up with self-love and the resources that you need in order to hold the weight of what we are carrying in this world today.
00:16:49
Speaker
And lest we think that things are getting better and they will continue to get better, please remember... that the big, beautiful bill doesn't really take effect until after the midterms.
00:17:04
Speaker
m And that big, beautiful bill will be completely slashing Medicare, cutting Social Security, slashing SNAP.
00:17:15
Speaker
yeah It will be taking out almost completely the education department, if it hasn't already started. There are huge cuts that are coming.
00:17:26
Speaker
to our communities as a result of, honestly, as a result of of the legislation that's being passed over the past year, as a result of 2025, Project right the reality and we might we have a respite right now but the reality ah Many do. Others don't. But the reality is is that almost everybody is going to be suffering in 2027.
00:17:55
Speaker
And climate change is also exacerbating that, where you're going to have climate disasters with very, very little help from the federal government, and which is where we have traditionally looked for help. So, friends, I'm saying all over the place, come to the clearing.
00:18:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:18:19
Speaker
to launch one of our pilots we have two pilots that are going to be happening in twenty twenty six
00:18:35
Speaker
And then ccd of course, goes through the 10th. I'll be there the whole time. But the clearing is happening on October 7th. And the other one is going to be in Philadelphia on September 9th. You can find out more information about all of these things on my substack. Also, CCDA, if you're with CCDA, CCDA i will be sending out emails and you'll have a direct link to sign up. And if you are not a black or brown woman and you want to support this because you have black and brown women in your life who you want to make sure get the information, you're absolutely welcome to donate.
00:19:13
Speaker
Donate their you know their registration costs or donate to help other women who are struggling or in crisis to be able to come.
Addressing Mental Health and Community Building
00:19:22
Speaker
So we we made the the cost um as as accessible as possible. It's below $100. And for those who are struggling, it's just 57 bucks.
00:19:31
Speaker
But some people can't even afford that. So if you could help by donating to help, you know, allay those those costs, that'd be great. But thank you so much for your partnership, CCDA. I'm so looking forward to being with you all in Richmond this year.
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much, Lisa, for yeah just expanding on what the clearing is and just seeing the elements of how your personal story, again, has led you to say yes to God again into something left to lead other women into, but also started started with your yes and your yes of obedience. And then God expanding to like your cousin at a table being like, I'm a financial planner. yeah It all began with like your yes. And then to that element of him being like, come, I'll teach you. And then you go teach others, which is really incarnational ministry, what Jesus did. He taught and then he led others to go teach and then invited others into the fold and being like, let's not gatekeep. Let's invite others into this space as well. And I love that. And i know some black and brown women who are like, I don't know this is for me, the clearing, but
00:20:39
Speaker
And we've talked about this. If you talk about a little bit more about also like the mental health element that will be focused at the conference, the spiritual element, because it's not just like financial economic, but it's also like the mental health that also be be part of like the discussion that we'll be having on October seventh point Yes, that's right. In fact, one thing that's really important to understand is that the the economic burden that black and brown women are holding right now is not only being held in our bank accounts. The tension is not only there, it's also in our bodies. It's in our minds. It's causing depression.
00:21:12
Speaker
and It's causing anxiety. And that causes all kinds of medical ailments, hypertension, distress in our hearts, and also the breakdown of of the systems in our bodies. So we are going to be talking about mental health resilience in the midst of this as well.
00:21:32
Speaker
In ah At the Clearing in Richmond, get this, Brian's sister is actually a very well-known, really awesome like psychologist.
00:21:43
Speaker
So she's going to be coming and she'll also be offering the expertise with regard to psychological coping and resilience, i' giving us some tools, some practices, um some wisdom with regard to how do we mentally hold the burden, the weight of the burden that we are carrying as black and brown women right now. And then on top of that, we will also have the ability to connect with each other and to to exercise spiritual resilience.
00:22:10
Speaker
And last but not least, our our intention is to connect the people at the clearing with mutual aid, mutual aid resources that they have in their city so they can be aware of the kinds of mutual aid that are available to them. Many of the women who are coming are not people who have ever experienced poverty before, but have suddenly been thrown into a situation that they may not know how to navigate.
00:22:36
Speaker
So we want to help you to navigate by by making the face-to-face introduction with mutual aid resources that are available in cities across the country. We're going to be leveraging what's available in Richmond, but this is many of these resources are also available in your town, in your city.
00:22:55
Speaker
I love that. I've just like all the elements of like, that would be bought into that space and the discussions that will happen are going to be so powerful. And I'm guessing there's no age limit. If a woman is like 18 and maybe she's like, I don't have anything yet. It's please come and learn. Yeah. Yeah, 18 to 80. I mean, maybe even beyond 80 if you can make it in the room. You mean? Like, come, come one. I'm serious. Come one, come all because it's going to be an opportunity for all of us to share our wisdom and to receive. We will be in talking circle together.
00:23:26
Speaker
will be sharing our stories, our economic stories of 2025. We're going to start there, right? We're going to be listening to each other. So when the elders are around the room sharing, we will be receiving wisdom. And when the young people are sharing what's going on with them, the elders will suddenly understand. It'll be it'll it'll be intergenerational.
00:23:46
Speaker
This is not meant for any one generation. And I should also just add that this is the goal here is not just a one-off. Our goal is actually to create an ongoing relationship with these cities. We want to be able to come back to Richmond, come back to Philadelphia, go to other cities and come back in order to continue the relationship of bringing resources and helping to sustain communities of new mutual care.
00:24:13
Speaker
I love that. I love that. i love I love the element of the intergenerational space that will be coming together. And just like the wisdom. if I was 18, I would love to have been a space like that. Just having that wealth of knowledge, but also realizing I do have knowledge. I do have something in me.
00:24:29
Speaker
I can't imagine how imp empowering it will be for the 18-year-olds in the room. Please come. Yeah. And the older generation and just like that coming together. And the ones who are the middle, kind of the midlife who are still like, I'm not here, I'm not there, but I do see this happening. I'm so excited.
00:24:46
Speaker
I'm trying to get like every woman I know, especially in the Women of Color Affinity Network, just being like, come and be a part of this. And, you know, let's come together and we're stronger together than we are apart.
00:24:58
Speaker
And i feel like it's for such a time as this. i know that's quoted a lot, that scripture is quoted a lot, but I feel like it is for a time like this that God is gathering black and brown women to come together for us to step into something new. So that 2027 will be different Yeah, yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
There's a way that as Black and brown women, we have been taught not to center ourselves. We really have. We've been taught to focus outward at our families and our communities.
00:25:32
Speaker
And as a result, we tend to be among the least healthy people. women and people in the country. We tend to have higher incidence of diabetes and heart disease and all kinds of ailments, depression. And depression looks differently in us than it does in white women. It literally manifests differently. So most the time, we are not aware even when we are depressed. We just think we're mad, right? But actually, no, there's depression that's happening in there. And and just think about just the last two weeks.
00:26:08
Speaker
just the last two days. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Of the things that have been coming at us, the people, the grief that we have had to carry, either in our own lives, our own families, or even vicariously by watching the grief of others online.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah. This is, ah we were not built for this. This is not what we were created for. I'll share this with you. When I asked the elders, how did you do it?
00:26:41
Speaker
Because this is not the first time we've been around. ye Yeah, that's true. Right? This is not our first rodeo as as people of color experiencing Oppression, like straight up in our face oppression, unapologetic oppression.
00:26:57
Speaker
How did you do it? I asked my mom. I asked my auntie. I asked Ruby Sales. ah I call her auntie Ruby Sales. Others call her mama Ruby Sales. She knows my mom from back in the SNCC days. And so that's why I have the privilege of calling her auntie.
00:27:13
Speaker
But I asked them, how did you do it? And the number one thing that I'm told by my elders is we did it because we had community. Yeah. We did it together.
00:27:25
Speaker
There's no way that they could have lived through what they lived through if they lived like we live today. Yeah. Isolated. and And also allowing shame. The shame of having things taken away. The shame that is being keeped on our shoulders by those who want to denigrate us.
00:27:48
Speaker
They didn't carry that. They set that shame aside and they they connected with their communities and they they lifted everything together. There was a connectedness that we were created for.
00:28:01
Speaker
that they invested in, that they had. And I'm just aware that in the age of the internet and social media, we're actually more fragmented.
00:28:13
Speaker
Black and brown women are less connected with our communities and therefore more vulnerable for a time like this. and So hearing is meant to remedy that.
Christian Community Development in The Clearing
00:28:25
Speaker
Yes, yes. The coming together of community. Lisa, it's been a pleasure talking to you. I wish you could talk more, but CCDN podcast, we end every episode with the same question.
00:28:37
Speaker
How do you see the principles of Christian community development taking shape in your community today? Wow. Well, I mean, I see it through the clearing. I have to say, i mean, the the clearing is an idea that is, it's a it's an intervention that comes through those principles of relocation is all about proximity. Relocation is about shortening the proximity between us and those who are hurting. And inside of the Black community,
00:29:08
Speaker
We don't have to shorten that proximity. We are us. And so what we need to do is shorten the proximity between ourselves. That's what the clearing is meant to do i'm The redistribution, the whole goal here is to is to understand that we have been redistributed out of the economy and then recall our resources to get the wisdom that we do have in our community and have it downloaded back into us so that we can bring those resources back to us.
00:29:38
Speaker
And um reconciliation, when we think of reconciliation within our communities, from our communities, it's it becomes more of a reconciliation with self.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. Right? So there's a break in the relationship with self that happens through the violence of poverty and impoverishment There is a break in the relationship with self that happens when you are told that you are no longer wanted or needed and excluded. And so there is a reconciliation with self that that is necessary in order for there to be flourishing.
00:30:25
Speaker
And so those three principles are at work in the clearing and also in other things that we do. I think it's it's it all it's all driven by them.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:30:35
Speaker
Incredible. Lisa, thank you. Thank you so much. You're such a fountain of... wisdom and i love your integrity in how you speak and just seeing your journey through your years and how God has led you to this moment in time and your desire to always bring people with you and not just take just not just for yourself. So I'm excited for the clearing. I'm excited for the women who are going to attend the intergenerational conversations that will happen and just what God will do through that movement, not only in Richmond, in Philadelphia and the rest of the country and maybe even internationally, because I'm sure it's happening all around the world with black and brown women. So thank you rudy for listening to the CCDA podcast. And thank you, Lisa, for joining us today. such a pleasure talking to you. you want to learn more about CCDA and the clearing, check out the show notes of this episode. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:31:29
Speaker
This episode is produced by Sarah Callen in association with krista Christina Fore. We'll be back soon with another s episode featuring CCD practitioners who are committed to seeing people and communities experience God's shalom. We will see you then. Thank you for joining us.