Transcript
Speaker: Hi, my name is Chris Mitchell. Welcome to another episode of Becker Accounting Podcast. And I am back with Heather Esposito. And she is a founder of Mabora. It is a consulting firm. She is the chief learning officer there.
Speaker: Really, she started the firm. So I'm going to put that out there. Very knowledgeable lady. We've had a lot of conversations already about how to talk and and and how we behave and AI influence and what's going to be important coming up. But let me tell you, we've got something else on the menu today. We're going to be talking about communication. Let me tell you, you don't do podcasts and unless you love to talk.
Speaker: And I like to talk, but I'm going to find a better way to do it to make sure that I'm engaging and sharing on the right subject and bringing the audience in. So, Heather, I know I didn't do it justice.
Speaker: So I'm gonna let you go ahead and fill the audience in on who you are and what we're. And you know what? I'm gonna do something a little different. Tell us what we're going to talk about today, if you don't mind. Yeah, what I am fascinated about and what I've spent probably the oh gosh, ah upwards of 10 years now studying and learning about is our brain and neuroscience and how we can work with the brain rather than fighting against our natural biology and how that impacts the work we do, trust,
Speaker: the nature of conversations we're having. And I think it's something we don't learn enough about because we we try to try to use techniques and things that we learn without understanding really what we're creating in the room and why some leaders get the results they're looking for and why some leaders, despite using the best techniques, don't.
Speaker: And so we're going to talk about the brain in the room and how that impacts communication. And I've done quite a bit of research. I'm not a neuroscientist. I'll just start off by saying that.
Speaker: But I am something called a master neuroplastician, which means that I take their research and figure out how we bring that into the real world, into practical application.
Speaker: And like i said, I've dedicated the last 10 years of my work to understanding that and teaching leaders how to leverage that. You know, when I think about communication and how important it is, I've been a partner. I've been an executive leader.
Speaker: i know how to message things. at least I think I know how to message things and to an audience, but it is critical. It is highly important we are successful in this area. I learned many years ago when I was told, hey, Chris, I think you you're afraid of public speaking. Maybe you should do Toastmasters.
Speaker: And it helped me tremendously. So when I think about the conversation today, I know it's something that the audience can use and will use. So let's talk about this brain friendly equation, because I know that when reading some of your work,
Speaker: I said, what is brain friendly? and Okay, I think about my style. I think about the the skill that I have as a communicator. What does brain friendly mean? Yeah, well, let's start off a little bit. youa You talked about, I know what to say. I know how to say it. I know how to craft the message.
Speaker: And all of that's important, but that's focused on content and the mechanics of delivery. What we're going to spend more time talking about today is, What kind of what are we creating in the room that helps determine whether the message is received the way you want, whether it has the impact that you're looking for? And that goes back to some of our basic biology.
Speaker: So our brain is wired for one thing, one thing only, and that is to keep you safe. And if you think back evolutionarily, when we were more of a tribal species, that wiring was determined, ah was actually used to help you avoid predators, to make sure that you were able to hunt and get the food that you needed for survival, that you were able to you know find shelter and all of these things that were about our physical survival.
Speaker: And as our brain has matured, That part of our brain has not evolved as fast as society has. So that part of our brain that's constantly scanning for threat in the environment, which again, used to be largely physical, is now wired to detect what we call social threats.
Speaker: So things like overwhelm, ah things like social cues that may mean that I'm like, I feel judged or I ah don't feel like it's really OK to share my perspective because I get the scowl from you anything.
Speaker: Those messages start to impact that same part of our brain. And when that threat network is activated, it shuts down our logical, rational thinking. Now, how strong the threat is determines how much of that logical, rational capacity is diminished.
Speaker: But when we talk about wanting high performing teams and we want cultures where it's safe to speak up and we want people sharing ideas and being innovative, that all comes from a part of our brain that can't come fully online when we're feeling threatened.
Speaker: Or I'll use the word unsafe, but i you know sometimes that word doesn't always land well with people. Well, of course, it's safe here. um But psychologically, for our brains, it may not feel that way if every time I ask a question, somebody is like, well, that's a dumb question, or we don't have time for that. Like that starts to send a message to our brain that that behavior isn't safe to do here.
Speaker: And we start to hold back and we start to limit so that we don't feel stupid, look stupid, all of those messages that we give ourselves. You know, and I appreciate your breaking it down like that, but I'm going to ask you to go deeper because I need I need more as it relates to the neurological and the relational components of it.
Speaker: So when i when we go deeper and we think a bit about the way the brain fires, can you elaborate on that? Because I'm trying to figure out because I'm thinking in my own head and this is bad. OK, my own head, I'm thinking when someone enters a room that my brain responds and reacts and lights up in a different way, you know, maybe I've watched too much television.
Speaker: um But I'm thinking that something's firing a little differently depending on who I'm going to talk to and what I'm going to deliver. Is it like that? Or can you kind of put some, you know, some understanding as it relates to the neurologically how things are working for me?
Speaker: Yeah, that's exactly it. And we're going to dive really deep into this in a future episode around the neuropsychology of trust and really what what is trust in the brain.
Speaker: But we are making clear. quick, below ah the level of our consciousness. So this is not even something that you're using your thinking brain to think about.
Speaker: It's actually happening in your what you call your non conscious brain. And so that's like where all of our hard wiring and our patterns are stored so that we can quickly know how to show up in a situation before we've even had a chance to think about it.
Speaker: And there's two things your brain is looking for to know that someone and is more safe than not. One is, is this person likable?
Speaker: And is this person similar to me? And similar to me can mean a lot of things like we wear similar clothing. um Maybe we both have pets. We both root for the same football team. We went to the same school.
Speaker: We speak the same language. all There's a lot of things that can help us feel like I can relate to you better because you feel similar to me. And when somebody feels similar to me, I use the same part of my brain that I use to think about myself to process how they might be reacting, thinking or behaving in a situation.
Speaker: And then on top of that, you need to be likable. So there's an element of warmth or friendliness there. If either one of those two conditions are not met, it's in neuroscience or psychology terms, it's called we outgroup them.
Speaker: And I actually use a different part of my brain to think about how they might react, behave, or think in a situation. And we don't feel we don't feel as close to them. So there's an immediate...
Speaker: And this goes to that, is this going to hurt me or help me? That is the fundamental that decision that your brain makes in a hundredth of a second below your level of consciousness.
Speaker: If we think it's going to help us, we welcome it in. If we think it could hurt us, we start to put up a little bit of a barrier depending upon how strong we think that threat will be.
Speaker: So let's go in and dive into, cause I know we want to evaluate the situation. Okay. I'm going in for a performance review. Can be scary depending on how I'm performing. Okay.
Speaker: And say, for instance, I am concerned. OK, so that means right away I'm going posture differently. I'm going to probably process the environment differently. So when you say threat and when you say brain friendly, what's coming into play? Am I teeing that up or is it just to the point you just made? I'm just responding, given, you know, my nervous energy and and kind of my perception of what the outcome might be.
Speaker: So are you the leader or the employee? I'm going to be the employee. Okay. Well, let me just tell you, a performance conversation always has an element of threat to it from an employee's perspective.
Speaker: Because even if I think I'm performing well, I might hear something that I'm not prepared for. And there is a judgment that that's embedded in that situation.
Speaker: So, and there's something in neuroscience called the arousal curve. And what that basically means, and we've all experienced it, is there is a certain amount of stress that helps improve our performance.
Speaker: That's why deadlines work. That's why being tested on information works. It gives us just enough stress or threat to say, hey, I actually need to focus. I need to pay more attention here. I've got to hit this deadline. I want to perform well on this test.
Speaker: And so it actually heightens our performance. um You know, we all can some people say it like I'm motivated by that, like fear of missing the deadline, the fear of not hitting the goal. And some people can handle that and it it really improves their performance.
Speaker: But it's a bell shaped curve. So if you get too close to the top. If you then introduce a little more stress or a little more threat, and I use those words interchangeably. So just think about anything that creates a little stress in the system as biological, you know, threat.
Speaker: Your performance gradually, I mean, not immediately starts to decrease. You go down a slope and because it's just too much. And we actually now perform very, very poorly because the stress was too much in the system that it kind of threw us over that edge.
Speaker: And that's why if the stakes are too high, which a performance review, like My job, my compensation, there's a lot that's on the line, even when I think that I'm doing really well and I think that it's going to be positive.
Speaker: So let's just know going into it, that person's coming in with a certain amount of ah of threat or stress in the system.
Speaker: So how the leader shows up in that situation to kind of put them at ease or to mitigate that through the conversation is going to be really important because even something minor like, ah hey, this is just a small area for development.
Speaker: Because they're already somewhere on that curve and we may not know exactly where we're at the top and what's going to be the tipping point to send someone over. We have to be very careful as leaders if we want those conversations to be effective because it's already stress inducing just by its very nature.
Speaker: You know, I think about interactions that I've had with clients. I think about when I was a manager level individual within a firm, i had the partner that would come and have a conversation with me.
Speaker: Are those similar? Would I consider that a threat? Is it the same thing firing when had those conversations? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because there's a status difference.
Speaker: So, again, there's so many things. And I think a lot of people sometimes assume that for there to be threat in a conversation, i have to be using a loud voice or I have to be super stern or I have to be delivering a bad message.
Speaker: Unfortunately, that's not it. There's so many subtle cues that our brain is picking up on. Is there a status difference? Do you have power over me? and Are there places where you're telling me what to do? And so I feel like I have no autonomy and autonomy.
Speaker: Like that kind of brings out a little bit of um um this is being done to me versus with me. ah There's things like the language we choose to use can send messages to to our brain. Yeah. ah So there's so many factors that are really subtle and nuanced, which makes it really hard for leaders to think about the kind of environment they're creating, because we don't have any control over what you came in with.
Speaker: You may have had a stressful morning at home with your kids and your partner and your dog threw up as you were trying to walk out the door and somebody cut you off in traffic. So You may be coming in what we call like preloaded with some stress activation already in the system.
Speaker: So what gets piled on top of that can either improve performance or ah detract from performance. And we as leaders are responsible for the environments that we're creating.
Speaker: And that's usually why I get brought in. I usually get brought in for more of a selfish reason. Um, Most organizations aren't saying we really want to have more brain friendly conversations and are like, that's the culture we want to create. Some do. Some are very human centric and are trying to achieve that.
Speaker: But more often than not, this work starts because we want high performance. We want high performing organization. We want to get the best performance out of our employees.
Speaker: And so how do we create the environments that are most conducive to bringing out the best in our people? And spoiler alert, the way we do that is working with their brain, not against it.
Speaker: And so this idea of being brain friendly is just how do we honor the brain, how it normally normally works so that we can keep it in the rational, logical thinking side of the brain versus operating from this this threat area or this self-protection All right. and So so put I need some coaching.
Speaker: OK, so I put myself in this hypothetical equation or situation as an executive leader. oh Why not just be a partner? I'm going to be a partner in a firm and I got to deliver a message to a manager as relates to a project that we're not doing as well on.
Speaker: And I want to make sure that it's a brain friendly equation because they don't really know why we're going to meet and have this conversation, but they know they're meeting with the partners. So maybe they're going to consider that a threat.
Speaker: So how would I go about making this a pleasant and not say pleasant, but a a positive experience? So give me some coaching so I can I can be equipped for success.
Speaker: I love how you worded that, Chris, because the first thing that I'd love to point out is just the setup. They don't necessarily know why why we're meeting. Well, that's threat inducing right there. So it's just the same thing as you get the team's message or the Slack message.
Speaker: Do you have five minutes? Do you have time for a quick call? Can you come into my office? Like any of those things. What's the first thing that goes through your mind?
Speaker: It's serious. It's serious. Yeah. Like we don't go and say, oh, I bet you they're waiting to tell me how great I did on this project or that we just won this business. That is not where our brain goes.
Speaker: And that's like that's how strong this threat network is. Our brain is wired five times more to detect threat than is reward.
Speaker: Now, biologically, that makes sense because things that are harmful to me are not only detrimental to my own survival, if you think about it that way, is to me as an individual, but But if we're collectively that way, it's detrimental to the survival of our species.
Speaker: So there's there's really important reasons why we're wired for that. But here's the crazy part is that you would think that it always needs to be something that's like super obvious.
Speaker: Well, the things that are ambiguous or uncertain are actually more threat inducing than the things that we know. So if if I see a rattlesnake on the ground, I don't have to spend much effort to know that I need to get away from that because that's deadly. So it's almost there's almost certainty there, even though there's threat.
Speaker: Whereas the can you come into my office or do you have five minutes? I don't know. So I start going through the mental Rolodex of, oh, crap, what are the things that are done with this person? okay Like where what have I done lately? What are they want to talk to me about? And it's it's always a bad scenario.
Speaker: but So we it's what actually fires up this whole system. And it's not just the brain. It also activates biology behind it. So hormones, neurotransmitters. So all of a sudden i start secreting adrenaline.
Speaker: I start secreting epinephrine. Well, those things activate body systems, physiological responses. My heart rate increases. The blood flow increases because it's activating this fight or flight brain. When we talk about our threat brain, we're talking about something called the amygdala. Some people call it the lizard brain.
Speaker: Some people call it the fight or flight brain. It's all the same thing. But it's starting to increase my respirations so I can get more oxygen into my system. It's starting to increase my circulatory system so it can get blood and oxygen to the muscles and the muscular system because i might have to either run away.
Speaker: fight or um the other one is just kind of freeze but those are the responses that we have in those circumstances so it's not just well like their brain is doing this but that brain response sets off a whole systemic body response and so we do we go in kind of braced for this bad thing because Your brain's like, I've got to keep my human safe. That's my job.
Speaker: And which is why people get really defensive in those circumstances because I'm braced for the fight. So as a leader, if you're wanting to have or if you're being called into that kind of meeting with a partner and.
Speaker: Like, it's our job to kind of set the stage, and that comes before the meeting to say, even if it's going to be bad, We need to talk about the client that we just recently had some issues with.
Speaker: I want to spend some time understanding that and deciding what our path forward is. That's actually better for the brain than asking them to come into a meeting with nothing.
Speaker: Like, I don't know why I'm here. I don't know what's going to be coming at me. I'm braced for the worst. And that actually puts them in a really bad brain space to have a conversation about what do we do from here? How do we make sure this doesn't happen again? how do we remedy this or whatever the conversation or even if it's some negative feedback?
Speaker: If I know what the conversation is, then I'm coming in. i still may be a little braced for it, but I'm not braced in the same way of I'm bracing for an unknown versus, OK, like I know we need to have this conversation.
Speaker: And then from the second thing i would do is I always make sure that I let the other person reflect first. So if I'm the leader, if I'm the partner and our topic is this client that we need to talk about where maybe a meeting went badly or a deliverable was had an issue, would say like, I want to hear from you what your perspective is on that.
Speaker: It's less threatening. for the employee, i always use that kind of to tell on themselves because they already know what's happening. But if you hear it from me, it still feels like I need to defend myself.
Speaker: But if you talk to me and you say, here's what here's what I understood happened, here's what I'm learning from this, here's what I'm going to do differently next time,
Speaker: There really doesn't need to be a lot of conversation past that. And that was a much better interchange than I've got to sit here, embrace myself to take this from you.
Speaker: ah Now, if I don't know, if I wasn't aware, then you do have to share that information. And if you can do it in a way that's fact-based, that's neutral, that's less about like the character of the person, but more about just the the thing that happened and keep the conversation focused more on.
Speaker: So what do we do now? what are you learning and what are you going to do differently in the future? That forward facing conversation is always much more brain friendly than going back to just rehash the past. How did this happen? Why did you do this? How could you have been so stupid?
Speaker: ah You know, I can't believe this because then it just encourages people to be more defensive because it feels a lot more threatening to them.
Speaker: Then, okay like we're all going to make mistakes. just What are we going to do about it? And how do we make sure it doesn't happen again? That relaxes their brain and gets them into a much more forward state.
Speaker: You know, what that was a long answer for that. But yeah I think that's a great term analogy. I mean, I think what I've done is that I want my team to know that we're in it together.
Speaker: So if I go in there, it's like, how can we address this as a team? What can I do? How can I support you? ah You're not in it by yourself, you know, and not every client's going to be happy.
Speaker: It's always something that will bubble up, but we're in it together. And I'm the partner and I have the relationship. But as a team, we're going to solve for this. And it's it's worked because I think it relaxes them and it allows them to understand I'm not a threat.
Speaker: I'm here to work with you. So I'm um the reason I'm putting this out there because I want to I'd like to think that that was the right approach. But, you know what what do you think about that? If I if I share that with you, is that good enough? Is that the right angle, right approach?
Speaker: um Or could I but could I have done it better and or differently? I think that unfortunately there's not an easy answer to that because different people have different motivations. And because of our past experiences, our family of origin, the culture that we were brought up in, we have learned that like certain behaviors or certain environments feel, feel safe. And like, okay, like I, I do believe that we're all in this together.
Speaker: But Chris, if your language, we're all in this together, and then your behavior, your actions don't line up with that, I will very quickly suss out that that's not the case, that that's just a lot of lip service because you probably heard that somewhere one day. And and so And that may not be enough for me. I mean, like that collective we're all in this together may not be enough for me because maybe is a high achiever or as someone who has always done things really well or people who have more of perfectionist tendencies,
Speaker: They may still be beating themselves up. Doesn't matter that we're all in this together. But that makes me feel like I I did something. And, you know, I'm I am very big on personal accountability. So even though we're all in this together.
Speaker: If someone on the team. had ownership or responsibility of an aspect of that, how do we create some personal accountability while also not singling them out, if you will?
Speaker: And because humans are incredibly complex, what works for one person on the team To help them feel like it's safe to put yourself out there, it's okay to make a mistake and learn from it, may not be the same for someone else on the team who grew up in an environment where making a mistake was never acceptable. And so they learned to play it safe because any time they took just a little bit of a risk, it was too much.
Speaker: So it i unfortunately, there's not one answer. I think it's a great approach. To um to help the team work together and build team spirit and collaboration.
Speaker: And we're all looking out for each other. But whether it's enough is a hard question to answer, because I don't know each person on the team and what they need to be at their best.
Speaker: You know, when I think about our profession and how we show up, we're always selling something. OK, we're selling on our idea. you We're selling a solution. We're trying to win over a new client.
Speaker: And I think this absolutely ah and is in alignment with that. And being really good and having a brain friendly understanding of how I need to exchange with that particular audience helped me get better.
Speaker: If I'm selling something, if I'm showing up in front of a prospect and I'm doing my pitch, OK, how can I tee myself up for success? Neurologically, i know that I want to put them at ease. I want them to be comfortable. I don't want to be a threat.
Speaker: But how can I make them buy it? cannot I cannot influence that. And you get where I'm going. How can I influence that? How come how can I be an influencer and not a distraction from the overall equation?
Speaker: Well, I mean, here's here's one place where I think that we have room for improvement in the profession is that we typically lead with our competence and our credentials.
Speaker: And people don't. That's not the way the brain works. The brain judges or i guess judge is the right word because it's it's happening below our level of consciousness.
Speaker: But before we care about your expertise and your competence and your credentials, we care about who you are as a person first. So being able to lead with warmth and being able to lead with a relational capacity.
Speaker: ah And it goes back to those two things we talked about earlier. Are you similar to me? So how many things can you find in common? So I would always say like being able to start the conversation when you're meeting with them, can you find something in their office that you can relate to?
Speaker: Do they have a picture of their daughter on their desk and you have a daughter or maybe you see a pet? I also have a dog. I mean, it's I know it sounds silly, but at a biological level, people appreciate that you're more like me than you're different than me.
Speaker: And so maybe they have a diploma from a university and your neighbor went there, your best friend went there. Little things like that can start to help break down barriers because it feels like you have more in common with me than you don't.
Speaker: And then, of course, that second piece of you have to be likable. So you can't just come in and be all professional, all facts, all expertise.
Speaker: it It's like, that just That doesn't engender people to want to like build a relationship and trust you. And trust, as we're going to talk about in another episode, is it's but it's biological. we We think that it's based upon all this other logic logical, rational thinking.
Speaker: It is not. We interpret that at a much deeper level. And so as you're going in into to sell to a prospect, it's making sure that you're You're putting them at ease.
Speaker: And when I say putting them at ease, I'm talking about, you know, putting their brain at ease, because if they feel like they're being sold to or manipulated there, that naturally creates some resistance.
Speaker: So it's more about the how can I support you? How can I give you something that's going to solve a problem you have? And I'm here to help you. Then I'm here to to because we're not in a short term sale. We are not in a transactional sale. We're not sell it and then we can leave and we don't ever have to um revisit it again. No, we're in a ah long term relationship based. The more information they're willing to share with us, the better of an advisor we can be.
Speaker: And that's why this is so important, not only when you're dealing with other employees, but when you're dealing with clients. And it's really why I love doing this work, because when you teach someone about how our brain works, all of a sudden those things that seem like soft skills or fluffy or dare I even say woo woo, it's like, wow, like, no, that's just really hard science. And if I set the stage and I create an environment that actually opens up their brain rather than shutting it down,
Speaker: I can have much better and deeper relationships in my personal life, in my volunteer work, with my coworkers, with my clients. It's applicable everywhere. It's it's one of the skills that transfers to to every relationship that we're in.
Speaker: You know, ah now I'm thinking about leaders that are trying to start. OK, they're trying to start out with a program where they're trying to socialize this. OK, we want everyone to be a brain friendly type of person, understand the threats, be able to work through it. Where is the starting point? Yes, I can call you. i know that. But where can I start? I mean, where is there something available to for my team to review? How do I start that process?
Speaker: Yeah, I would say just start to audit the environment. Start to notice ah who speaks up, who stays quiet. How often do I ask for feedback and what comes back to me?
Speaker: ah That'll give you some real insights into what's happening in the rooms that you're in. And if people say, I really like it's great, you're doing fine.
Speaker: Like that's that's not great feedback. ah Great feedback is here's what you do that really helps me. And if you could change one thing, this would this would make our relationship even better.
Speaker: If people are sharing that type of information with you, you know that you've created an environment where their brain is not in threat mode because they know it's not going to come back to hurt them if they share that kind of information with you.
Speaker: And here's the other problem that I notice in accounting is that that compliance or that I'm going to sit quietly. I'm just going to nod my head.
Speaker: I'm like, we go, wow, look how professional they are. It's interpreted as professionalism. which is a dangerous slope because we reward that.
Speaker: And it may be, but also too, what are people holding back? What are they not saying? What are they not sharing when they're just nodding their head and then walk out of the room and have the meeting after the meeting where people talk about what they really wanted to talk about in the meeting? That will indicate to you that there's things going on in the culture Or with you as a specific leader, because we create the environment, we create the climate for those rooms.
Speaker: And people will learn really quickly what's OK to do and what's not OK to do. And if it's not OK to share a dissenting opinion or it's not I'm not able to bring up what feels like an undiscussable conversation.
Speaker: That would be an indication that you're you're losing out on the best of your people because they're remaining quiet. And you're making decisions with only partial information because they're only giving you what you want to hear. And that's dangerous.
Speaker: You know, when I think about this and I want you to defend this, if you don't mind. OK. Because I know the skeptic out there and they're saying this is soft skills. You mentioned this earlier. It's not.
Speaker: Defend that it's not soft skills because i will have a mass audience to say I need to show up. I need to be professional. And that's enough. i need to read it I need to read the room and understand who's there and make sure that I say something about their child that's doing sports or whatever. And that's going to get me across the finish line.
Speaker: What you're talking about is something that's a lot more in-depth. Okay. Brain friendly and understanding your audience and being able to orchestrate or design something maybe uniquely for that one particular individual. So you can have a ah good exchange.
Speaker: Defend that it's not soft skills alone, that there's a lot more that goes into it. No, I mean, it like it fits into the bucket of soft skills. And I hate that word. I really do honestly hate that word. I know. it'd rather us call them i know I'd much rather us call them human skills because the because they're really hard. ah You know, the technical skills look easy compared to dealing with the complexities of human beings, because just like we talked about.
Speaker: i I don't know what happened in your world before you got on this call and what you're already coming with. And, you know, the the way that we normally interact in all a sudden it's like, wow, like Chris is acting really different today.
Speaker: What's contributing to that? Am I setting if I've done something that's created a climate that's making it feel off or. Was this something that he came in with because he just had a difficult client conversation or he stumped on a project he's working on? And so his his mind is somewhere else like that is super hard.
Speaker: But as we've talked about, when we when we've talked about AI and we've talked about developing the advisory mindset, this is the work ahead of us if we want to stay relevant is doubling down on these human skills. And it's hard science.
Speaker: With the advances in what we've been able to do, um it's called a functional um MRI that can ah study our brain. What parts of our brain light up in different in different instances and different circumstances?
Speaker: We have learned so much more about the things I'm talking about. What contributes to the amygdala firing up and telling somebody that this is not OK or I need to hold back in this circumstance or I need to defend myself or I need to argue against this?
Speaker: Because that fight or flight brain is doing more of the thinking power. And unfortunately, it's like a think about a dimmer switch or a seesaw. You can't have the logical rational brain, which is called the prefrontal cortex. It's right here behind our forehead.
Speaker: You can't have that part of your brain firing on all cylinders while your amygdala or your threat brain is firing on all cylinders. They sit on opposite ends. So think about the seesaw or think about a dimmer switch.
Speaker: As you pull energy and resources to one of those, it takes energy and resources from the other. So when we talk about minimizing threat in the brain, that's because we want to give you as much access to the prefrontal cortex and for the, to be able to do executive thinking, to be able to think about the consequences of your behavior.
Speaker: That's where all of our, um, behavior modulation comes from. So the thing that helps me cut off like the fact that I'd really love to yell at you right now, but that's not appropriate.
Speaker: That's our breaking system saying that's not socially appropriate. That all happens in that's so that prefrontal cortex. And that's where people, their creativity is where we learn. It's where innovation resides.
Speaker: So if those are all the things that we want to maximize in our workplaces and in our homes and in our communities, then tamping down and mitigating as much of that threat brain from being online as possible is the work. And that's hard science.
Speaker: And we've all seen it play out. I mean, look at our world today. Our brains are being used against us. And it's it's kind of ironic to me that our own biology is being used as a weapon.
Speaker: So many of the messages that we get in the media today are like, these are the things you need to be afraid of. These are the things that are out to get you. This is why we have to make all these decisions.
Speaker: And we're being our threat brains are being activated. Because then we become more reactive, just like we go along, we follow along because like I have to keep myself safe. And if all these things are out in the world to get me, then i need to go along with this ideation because i would otherwise my survival is threatened.
Speaker: And we shut off our ability to use our logical, rational brain to say, ah you know what, that doesn't make a lot of sense or that doesn't align with what I know. We've pulled all the resources away from that part of our brain. So it's this is the work, not only in our societies today, but in our workplaces. And again, like I'm usually brought in because people want high performance. And this is what sits behind that.
Speaker: So it's definitely a skill worth learning. So when I think about the cultures that are set up in that environment and you walk into something that, you know, is broken, OK, and you know that leadership hasn't done the work, I mean,
Speaker: How long does it take when you when I think about transformation and I think about an exercise, I walk into an environment, they bring me in, I'm the expert. I start talking about brain friendly. I start socializing the methodology and the equation for success as relates to this space and communication and reading the room and all these other things that come into play. How long does it take for it to work?
Speaker: I mean, is it something that needs to happen? Because I'm certain you get this, because if you're in there doing consulting, everyone wants to know how quickly can you fix it? and i don't And I guess I'm just curious, how long does it take for there to be gravity and for you to see results as relates to this?
Speaker: Yeah, ah you know, i have seen results happen as soon as the next conversation. And people are like, wow, people are responding to me differently already. And I think it depends on oh how not brain friendly you were ahead of time. Because if you you know, if you've set a pattern of behavior with me, and I know what to expect from you, and all of a sudden you start like acting completely differently because you're trying some new things, you're practicing new ways of communicating, you're really thinking about the environment that you're trying to create.
Speaker: I'm not going to trust that because this is not consistent with the Chris I know. And so um it has to there has to be some consistency to it for me to say, oh, wow, this is really different.
Speaker: I always tell leaders when you start this work, Tell people what you're doing, especially if this is very different from the way that you've shown up in the past.
Speaker: Because again, think back to what we talked about with the brain, the ambiguous or the uncertain or the not knowing is actually more unsettling to us than if we know.
Speaker: And so if ah you come to me and you say, i really am working to be a more effective leader, I've realized that some of the ways that I may have been communicating in the past have not been yielding the results that I want and having a negative impact on people.
Speaker: And I'm going to be trying some new things and Just i love for you to give me a little grace as I'm learning. And I'd love for you to share some feedback about what you're noticing.
Speaker: as As humans, we actually are pretty open to people and are willing to give a lot of grace to people who say that I'm working to get better. If you're working to get better, I'm not expecting you to be perfect.
Speaker: And if I actually see you intentionally, purposefully trying some new things that feel good, I'm going to be like, all right, i'm I'm willing to play along and see where this goes.
Speaker: And in those instances, you can have some pretty dramatic results fairly quickly. ah But the habit piece of it, so the how long does it take a leader to really embed this?
Speaker: Now, that takes some time. Leadership is a practice, just like medicine is a practice, which means that you're going onto the field every day and trying some things, running some plays, seeing how they work. You're taking some time to be self-reflective, to say like, what am I getting back? It's like that self audit of what am I noticing that shifting?
Speaker: How am I getting some feedback into the system about what's working and what's not and continuing to practice until that becomes the hardwired new behavior?
Speaker: I don't have to think about it as much as I did when I first started. So If you're really intentional and it's genuine and it's sincere, then you will see people shift in how they react to you fairly quickly.
Speaker: But the ongoing practice of it and making it kind of the new default behavior, that takes a little bit of time, of course, because we're we're having to unlearn and then relearns.
Speaker: You I'm thinking about the audience and I want to give them five steps. I don't know why I'm coming up with five steps. And I don't want you to hold me that to that, Heather, but I think five steps. What are five things that I can do? Because I know it starts with tone at the top. I know it starts with leadership.
Speaker: What are five things that I can do over the next month that are going to make a difference as it relates to you know, my team and threats and the right conversation, communication that's going to promote a brain friendly equation. What are those five things? And I know that you may have three, which is OK.
Speaker: But whatever you think that is going to give them just enough to get them headed on the right path, other than calling you, because I recommend that they highly call you because you're specialized in this area. But to hold to tide them over, what else would you recommend in those one, two, three, five steps that's going to help them tomorrow be better at this?
Speaker: Yeah, so the the first thing I'm going to go back to something I said earlier in the episode, and that's audit what's already happening. pause, slow down, and really be self-reflective and be self-reflective and honest about what's already happening.
Speaker: What are you observing about what happens in the meetings you lead? What are you ah noticing in other teams? Are there some leaders that just seem to bring out a different side of people? And we've all heard that happen in these calibration performance review conversations. Like one leader says,
Speaker: I don't know, like they never ask me any questions. ah They're always really defensive. And then another leader says, like, that's not been my experience at all. They've been very forthcoming. They share lots of things.
Speaker: That's a sign. If somebody is behaving very different with one leader than they are with another Those two leaders are creating a very different climate that brings out something different in that individual.
Speaker: So again, start auditing those things. Who never speaks up? That's probably because they've determined that whatever it is they have to say either risks judgment, ah risks them putting themselves out there in a way that...
Speaker: may not be good for their career or it for the environment in which they're in because that kind of perspective isn't welcome. And again, one small thing. So like this will be a this will be a Heather Esposito pro tip. i love the skill of permission.
Speaker: And permission is just the idea of being able to say, Chris, there's been something I've observed about ah your ah your behavior in meetings.
Speaker: Would you be open to me sharing that with you? Now, I may be your coach and or I might be your direct supervisor. And of course, I can share that with you just because I want to or might share that with you in a performance review process.
Speaker: But just asking you whether I can share it with you and having you say yes puts your brain in a more receptive state. And so sometimes from leaders, I was like, well, I don't have to ask permission. i was like, you don't. You're right.
Speaker: But do you want them to actually hear what you're saying? And if you do, The way I use it, and you know for those of you who are watching this on video, like if we're on two ends, and if I just come and say, Chris, I'm going to share something with you that you need to hear, like I have just come into your space uninvited.
Speaker: But if I say there's something I'd like to share with you, um are you open to it? And I come here and you say, yes, now you met me here. And that's a different brain state because you've now said, I'm ready for it. So even if I would have shared the same information,
Speaker: The threat was already lowered because I gave you autonomy or I gave you agency in saying I'm ready to hear it. Now, if somebody says, I'm really not ready, I'm not in a space to hear that right now, like my mind's in 14 other places. Great, let's set up some time tomorrow or the next day.
Speaker: I really do honor that. It's not that we're never going to have the conversation. But if you're already saying I'm in a space where I can't like give that the attention or maybe I need to emotionally regulate myself, but to be ready to hear it, ah then i I want to honor that for somebody because just telling you and having you dismiss it or shut it down, I didn't accomplish what I hope to accomplish anyway.
Speaker: And that can be used for anything like, hey, I'd like to dig in a little deeper on that. Is that OK? Yes. yes um Are you open to a suggestion?
Speaker: Yes. So even if you're wanting to give advice, making sure they're ready to receive that and then giving it without an agenda. So I'm not telling you because I expect you to do it because that's the same as shooting on somebody, which I don't think we should ever should on anybody. If you tell somebody they need to or they should, then they automatically just start rejecting it because it wasn't their idea and they didn't ask for it.
Speaker: But if I give a suggestion and somebody says, hey, I really actually like that, and they choose to pick it up off the table, now it's theirs because they chose it versus me pushing it on them and saying, you have to think this way, or this is the correct action to take here.
Speaker: so So a very small thing of asking for permission before you share an idea, before you dig deeper, before you share some feedback, again, mitigates that threat brain and makes them more open to the discussion.
Speaker: ah I also mentioned here, like letting them share first is a way to mitigate that threat brain and open up the dialogue. Because oftentimes I find that if you really have created a great climate of psychological safety,
Speaker: And they people know that if I do that, it's not going to come back to bite me like that's going to show up in my performance review or be written down in my file. If I say, hey, I think I was doing this really well, but I've noticed that I really struggle here and it's something I need to work on.
Speaker: OK, great. I don't need to tell you that now. So it becomes much easier for the leader. And now it's just like, okay great. So what are we going to do about that? Like, that's a very easy, neutral conversation from where we are.
Speaker: Where would you like to be three months from now on that? And how can I support you? What else do you need? What resources can we give you to help you with that? like then it just becomes this very productive conversation.
Speaker: Those are really simple things that anybody can do. And I know that they may feel a little um outside of the audit. The two more practical applications may feel more technique, but even though they're technique, it's still about what we're creating in the room and what kind of environment we want people to be in that feels like I can be at my best here. I don't have to always be on guard wondering if I tell you my weakness, how that might be used against me, or if I make a mistake that this is, you know, feels like the end of my career.
Speaker: ah now i know it doesn't Never means that. But sometimes it can feel like that. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm not going to get that promotion or I'm not going to get that bonus because I made this error. i mean, we we build a lot into that just for ourselves because it does. It feels that way to our brain.
Speaker: You know, that was a fantastic, how can I put it, playbook. You've given three steps that they could take to be proactive, okay, in solving for this. And we are just about out of time. You know, as we as we have a conversation, we're always just, and I say geeking out when it comes to what it takes in order to just process your environment and how important we are as human beings to the overall equation.
Speaker: I've said this in the past, AI is not enough, but human beings, I don't think they can get enough of us as we move forward into this new world. So I thank you as always. ah We've got a lot of other stuff coming out, but I won't you know spoil things. But I do want to appreciate you in the moment and say thank you. And I'm looking forward to our next conversation.
Speaker: Thanks. I love geeking out with you. And as you can't tell, this is one of my favorite topics because I just think it's so powerful and it takes soft skills and makes put some hard science behind them.
Speaker: And I found that that's often the unlock for especially ah people like engineers and software people and accountants who tend to lean more in their logical, rational brain. It's like, oh, OK, now I understand why I'm doing the soft skills. And yeah, so I'm hoping this unlocks something new for some of your listeners. Fantastic. Well, I'm going to take a moment to look in the camera and say, don't be afraid.
Speaker: This is not soft skills. This is something that's going to help you be more successful. I don't care if you're having a conversation internal to your own team or trying to convince a client that things aren't bad, that they're really good. Understanding who they are and who's in the audience and what could be perceived as a threat and how to be brain friendly is absolutely an equation you can use for success. So as always, I thank you for tuning in and I'm looking forward to our next conversation on Becker Accounting Podcast.
