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American Non-League is MORE Fun Than MLS - Ep. 116
1.2k Plays24 days ago
It’s time for Leagues Cup, but we lead this episode off with a recap of Lobbing Scorchers’ trip to InterBay Stadium to take in the USL League Two semifinals between Ballard FC and Flint City Bucks. Can the Sounders or other MLS clubs take notes from what’s arguably a superior gameday experience. After that we hit our Agenda Check, including updated stock on Pedro de la Vega and Jesus Ferreira, then hit some headlines from around the league, including reaction to Lionel Messi’s suspension and Thomas Müller reportedly signing with the Vancouver Whitecaps.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a production of Just Once Media.
Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:22
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? Welcome into another episode of Lobbing Scorchers. It is time for Leagues Cup, which the Seattle Sounders start on Thursday at Lumen Field against Cruz Azul.
00:00:33
Speaker
We are kicking off our Leagues Cup coverage. We got an agenda check to hit. We got some headlines from around MLS, including ah vindication for you, Noah, on Lionel Messi's suspension and the ah Vancouver Whitecaps. It was ah reported today are signing a global superstar. So we're going to we got
Listener Engagement and Sponsorships
00:00:53
Speaker
a jam packed show. Noah, how are you feeling?
00:00:54
Speaker
It's jam. Let's just don't. I don't even you don't even need to know how I'm doing. We have so much to cover today. I think this might be the biggest show we've ever done. It's it's there's a lot of topics on our. day There's a lot of topics before we get into it. I do, though.
00:01:08
Speaker
I do, though, have to let you all know. That Lobbing Scorchers is a part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network. If you want to get the best independent Seattle soccer coverage, consider supporting us by going to sounderatheart.com slash LS. What's that link now?
00:01:19
Speaker
Sounderatheart.com slash LS. Scroll down to subscribe and support to get 30 days completely free. Every sign up through our link helps support and grow this show. ah We got a couple new subs on the road to 200.
00:01:30
Speaker
We got Ted and Adair Hendrickson and Gerard Holzman. New Sounder at Heart subs. Thank you guys so much. It's a great way to support the show, and we encourage you all to join the ranks of Ted and Adair Hendrickson and Gerard Holzman.
00:01:46
Speaker
Sounderatheart.com slash LS. Ari, I'll tell you what. We're two away. wow. We're two away from 100. All right. Let's ah go. Should we set the goal for 100 90? feel like we might be getting greedy. We need our Denny Buonga.
00:02:01
Speaker
We need our Denny Buonga first. We need our Andy Craven, Andrew Craven. One new sub by ah by our next recording to bring us to our Denny Buonga number 99.
Ballard FC's Community Impact
00:02:12
Speaker
Shout out to our sponsors. Hacks and Ferments, Podium Menswear, Full Pull Wines, my data removal. Buy the hot sauce. Lobbingscorchers.com slash sauce.
00:02:23
Speaker
Lobbingscorchers.com slash archive for your new archive kit. That's another way to support the show. Anything else to plug housekeeping wise or should we just dive right in here?
00:02:36
Speaker
follow us on all socials that's that's my re hit so yeah yeah instagram tiktok on the road to credibility on both platforms i think we actually credibility oh we have credibility we hit we hit credibility on ig and we're like borderline there on tiktok yeah linkedin is next folks yeah I he made that joke.
00:02:56
Speaker
but does It hits every time. let's ah Let's get into this because we did have a topic we wanted to hit before any of the topics that I mentioned, which is that Lobbing Scorchers went to the Ballard FC semifinal League 2 playoffs semifinal matchup against the Flint city bucks at inner Bay on a Sunday evening, uh, which they took the dub. They're going to the natty.
00:03:20
Speaker
They're going to Burlington, Dale, 10 Vermont, Burlington, then some time, some, uh, rinky dink town. vermont yeah no and They're going, they're going to it to play the Vermont green in the natty, uh, which we do have a friendly wager with our friends at, uh, soccer wise on that, that, uh, we'll talk, we'll talk about that in a bit, but, uh,
00:03:40
Speaker
I wrote about it actually on my Ships Log newsletter for Sounder at Heart, and we wanted to talk about it more on the show. Just about the the League 2 match day experience that Ballard FC has going on at Interbay Stadium. Outside of the fact that ah the team that they've put together seems pretty dominant every year ah using these UW Seattle U college players who are who are trying to make it And some walk-ons and stuff. They were saying that there's some, ah there's some people who just literally will show up to tryouts and like, yeah, I used to play for the first division back in my home country.
00:04:16
Speaker
And they just, they just, they're beasts. Like, yeah and it's awesome. And the team, so the team is really good in league two. This year they were first place easily. i was looking at their ah goal differential and it was like 36 to five or something crazy. like that. So it's good footy.
00:04:33
Speaker
But also, I think I will know what you wanted to focus on was more just the game day experience that I also let's hit the game to here because it was it was a fun match. Oh, yeah, we can do that. ah Flint City Bucks scored first.
00:04:48
Speaker
So Ballard FC had to come back in the second half to win this Natty or to go to this Natty. Hopefully they win the Natty. yeah two second half goals, 2-1 finish.
00:05:00
Speaker
And ah it was... it was ah There was like drama and theatrics that went with it because of the come from behind nature of the result, for sure. My favorite was the the Flint City Bucks coach. I don't know how he was still on the field by the end of the match.
00:05:14
Speaker
Legitimately, like... Think of like toddler tantrum, but like running up and down the touchline, like slamming his feet, stomping up and down, screaming at the the fourth official. for i' like I'm not even exactly sure what he was so aggrieved about.
00:05:28
Speaker
But it was kind hard to tell from where from where we were. we we were well on the on the field in the photog section for ah portion of it, then in the beer garden for the second portion of it.
00:05:40
Speaker
ah The photog section, you could got get a pretty good view of all the action. But from where I was at, at least in the beer garden, you couldn't really see what was going on on one end of the field. ah But i mean, the the game itself. Yeah, that was like whenever they score at Interbay, it goes it goes crazy. There's like two K people there.
00:05:58
Speaker
There was the, yeah, there was, they sold out tickets completely. Like they, they literally had no walk up tickets. They weren't letting anyone else in. Like there was someone who walked up to behind us to try and buy a ticket. And the guy was like, yeah, dude, we're sold out. But I actually have one extra ticket. That's just like my personal ticket in my like season tickets and you can have it. So it's like that. Like it was actually, people were really stoked to be there and it was, it was popping.
00:06:24
Speaker
It was popping there. And they're all popping. I've been to a handful of these before this. And i don't think they have 2K at every single home game. But I feel like 1,000 to 1,500 people is pretty commonplace for a Ballard FC home game. So it's definitely, i don't know about the match day experiences or attendance or anything like that across League 2. But I got to imagine that Ballard is up there in terms of the support they're able to ah pull at their home games week in, week out during these seasons.
00:06:54
Speaker
No, I mean, I couldn't imagine another club doing that. I mean, I don't know. Maybe there's... Maybe Vermont. There's many teams. There's so many teams. I bet there's a few. And they play a lot of midweek games.
00:07:07
Speaker
They play like... It's a very short season. It's like two months long. So, you know, it's very... It's a summer thing. It's a fun summer thing to do. um But along with that, along with that, I guess we can jump into the atmosphere here because...
00:07:22
Speaker
I feel like every single time we could be so like pleasantly surprised about so like a game day experience, we were. Like... I don't know. Do you want to do you want to take it away and like what you thought first and then I can kind of give my take after that?
00:07:37
Speaker
Well, I i just ah first of all, I love the whole vibe they have going with. It's basically like a more festival type atmosphere than I've ever seen at a sporting event. They have your like generic and concession stand ah where you can get Seattle dogs and candy and stuff.
00:07:53
Speaker
ah But they have really good food trucks set up like outside the beer garden so you can get ah really good like restaurant quality food. You got these stir fry noodles that were. oh yeah, those were so good. hell good ah But the thing that always blows my mind at a Ballard FC game is just how how reasonably priced everything is.
00:08:14
Speaker
I got my Seattle dog and a bottle of water and a Snickers for $7. That's unheard of, Ari. That's unheard of. As I wrote in my Sounder Heart article about it, like ah that exact same purchase at Lumen Field for whatever event that you might be at there would put you into financial ruin for multiple weeks.
00:08:35
Speaker
It's just a weird feeling like being at a concession stand and them being like, that'll be $7. Yeah. Yeah. What? Are you sure? Not 27 for one beer? Do you want to check that? Do you want to make sure you put that in correctly? Because I'm not sure you did. i literally at the Club World Cup in the media lounge, like not the media lounge, which is like the media cafeteria, because they were charging for food.
00:08:56
Speaker
I spent like $40 on one meal and it was literally like one little boat of butter chicken. And so, like, even... I just... I was amazed. I got those stir-fry just weird feeling not being gouged.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, I got the stir-fry noodles, which was, like, packed with chicken, all of that, from a food truck, too, for, like, 14 bucks. Got beer, got waters, all of that. And I literally didn't spend more than $30 total.
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. That's crazy. And I, like... Why are we not doing that everywhere? Not getting gouged was such a, like it positively enhanced the experience to such a degree.
00:09:34
Speaker
no always think like, wow, any MLS club could just, it's such free goodwill to be like, you know what? We're going to be the team that you go to the game and like, you can get your chicken strips or whatever for like $8 instead of $48. $18. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:48
Speaker
forty eight dollars eighteen yeah Well, it's crazy too because you you go there expecting to spend a lot of money. You're surprised by how cheap it is. And you're still spending that much that much money anyway. And it's like and it's usually, for I don't know, for me at least, I was like, okay, I spend nothing on food. So I'm going to go buy some merch.
00:10:07
Speaker
I got some shorts because I needed some new soccer shorts anyway. And it was like three pairs for 30 bucks. i was like, oh, hell yeah. I'll take some soccer shorts for that. You got a shirt. like ten Yeah. And it's like, dude, this is, that's what it's about. Like not to be a, all soccer wise or it's not soccer wise, uh, all, uh, happy foot, sad foot about it, but it's like, they're growing the game, man.
00:10:29
Speaker
They're growing the game neighborhood by neighborhood by just bringing people in. You see so many more families there too, is what I noticed. Yeah, no. ah And we do have a bet with soccer wise on this on this natty.
00:10:44
Speaker
ah If Vermont Green win, right, we send them two bottles of the Lobbings Scorchers hot sauce. laing scorchches And we have to publicly denounce the color green.
00:10:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah, there was an added condition. Yeah. And I think maybe wear a swim cap. If you haven't seen the video, David Goss is wearing a swim cap. So I'm not sure if were we were required to wear the swim cap, but I feel like it's in we in an in homage to him. We should probably wear the swim cap as well.
00:11:11
Speaker
And then if Ballard wins, we get soccer wise merch, right? soccer wise merch and they're going to make us a custom hot sauce from vermont oh wow see i missed these amended conditions this is what telling you guys i that like you already doesn't even watch the the content that we're to be fair i literally just made up this wager and tagged david and tom bogert wasn't a part of it really either so tom and aria are just kind of on the periphery here but uh they're they're involved yeah i I mean, i' I'll ah adhere to whatever wager it may be. And ah um i know that we're both going to be locked in on that ah on that Natty League to Natty Ballard FC won it two years ago.
00:11:49
Speaker
Twenty twenty three. So they're looking to add their second. That's kind of an idea of the on field success that they've been able to put together. ah They're already playing for their second Natty. So, yeah, good team. Well, I have two questions here and then we could wrap up the Ballard fc discussion. and it's the first one is about the atmosphere and it's how can Seattle, how can the Sounders just in general take that community atmosphere, maybe that festival atmosphere like ah from a club like Ballard, maybe just even being affordable and bring it into a large stadium setting, bring it into MLS.
00:12:21
Speaker
I feel like I've been to a lot of sporting events. I haven't left feeling so happy and chill and like excited in a long time. Like I genuinely like, i don't know. I've, I've paid for sounders tickets. I've been in the press box. I've done all of that stuff. And it's like, I love this team more than anything, but I've never gone there and been like, hell yeah, that was like a well-rounded experience. That felt awesome. I felt like I was a part of the community.
00:12:48
Speaker
I felt like it was all just beautiful. I don't know. like I haven't felt that in a long time. So like how do you think that...
Seattle Sounders' Stadium Experience Challenges
00:12:56
Speaker
what What should the Sounders take from Ballard, basically? I seriously think that it's ah largely as simple as just making it an experience that's affordable and accessible to the average layperson.
00:13:09
Speaker
ah So you can go to these games and not like feel anxiety. Like this overarching anxiety that's always in the back of your mind of like, oh man, should I... Should should I drop $58 on concessions? You know, i already paid like $300 in Yeah. Like just everything is just so marked up. Like that is, I think that's such a drag, man. Like it really, it negatively affects,
00:13:39
Speaker
the experience. I'm sure there's other stuff too. Like I think the whole festival vibe of having the food trucks like right there in the, if they, if they made the concourses kind of more like that, I don't know if that would, uh, step on the toes of the Lumen concessions or if that's, but you know, they have the Seattle dog stands all outside like the, uh, in that alley there. So I don't know, maybe bringing some sort of that type of atmosphere to the concourse could be another way.
00:14:04
Speaker
But, uh, to me, a lot of it just comes down to, to affordability and accessibility, which when like tickets, whether it's season tickets or match day tickets or whatever, are just get more and more expensive every year. And then you throw like how expensive everything is inside the stadium as well.
00:14:23
Speaker
It's a drag. And if they, If they just fix that, it would, ah and not just, this isn't just Seattle. This is like any pro sports team. If you, if you just made a ah decision to be like, we're going to try and make our pricing more reflective of the common person who can come to these games and afford it, it would, it would ah create so much goodwill, first of all, and also improve the experience for anybody. They would never do any of this.
00:14:49
Speaker
Never, by the way, obviously. um But, you know, in a hypothetical universe where common sense prevails on a topic like that, it would it would improve it would improve the fan experience so much. I seriously think that's such a massive part of it.
00:15:04
Speaker
No, I agree. Like literally, I mean, I canceled my season tickets because they went up like 10% one season over season. What are we talking about? That's ridiculous. Like I understand to some people like a hundred bucks isn't a lot, but that's a hundred dollars, man. Like I'm, I'm broke.
00:15:18
Speaker
Okay. I got, I got podcast money and that's it. Like, you know, we're not, we're not millionaires over here. And it does seem like in the last, like don't know, five seasons, the they've catered towards the higher spending clientele instead of actually focusing on bringing people in at the at the bottom dollar and making it affordable. And i also I also do feel for the Sounders in the sense that like they don't control the building that they're in In any way, they, they, they don't really set the concession prices. They don't really, they're not able to like operate any of that stuff.
00:15:53
Speaker
They can't operate the parking. They can't operate. Like they are a tenant in a building controlled by a spiteful, horrible, horrible group called first and goal. We hate them. We hate them. We do. But I mean,
00:16:06
Speaker
There's got to be some way to kind of figure that out. And I think that there's definitely been attempts. Like the first match free thing has been awesome to get people in the door. ah But yeah, dude, like if you go to a sports game, you want to buy a beer and you want to buy ah chicken strip, a hot dog, something like that.
00:16:25
Speaker
And the fact that to do that, to go to the game as well, The minimum you're... Listen, i love east going into ECS. It's its own thing. But like the average person does not want to sit there. So the fact that like the minimum you're spending is basically $50 a ticket.
00:16:44
Speaker
To have a seat where you can sit, okay? I understand people like to stand, but the casual fan might want to sit for soccer game, okay? If you want that, you got to pay $50 plus. dollars You have to then pay another...
00:16:59
Speaker
It's like $18 for a shitty beer. That's crazy. And then another $18 for a chicken strip. And like, God forbid you go with your family. There's no way, dude. That's like a $500 outing. How can you imagine?
00:17:13
Speaker
do it Like, that that doesn't make any sense. We were at this Ballard game. Kids everywhere. I mean, just like full families because you can get in the door.
Growth of Soccer in the U.S. Through Community Clubs
00:17:24
Speaker
I'm sure I'm sure was I think there was like 15 bucks for standing room only $20 for us for ah a seat. And then there was some other tiers, obviously, where they have like a pitch side seats and like all of that kind of stuff.
00:17:36
Speaker
But it's like you can get in the door with your kids and by concessions and it's like $150 outing and it's an awesome atmosphere. You get to experience something. It's beautiful out all of this kind of stuff.
00:17:47
Speaker
And I don't know. That brings me to my next question, Ari. Is a club like Ballard and an experience like USL League 2 truly the future of growing the game in America to an audience who would probably not normally choose to consume soccer as their first sport?
00:18:07
Speaker
Because we all know that youth soccer is huge in America. it is the like I'm pretty sure it's the most played youth sport in America. So kids, they're playing it. They love it. They enjoy it.
00:18:19
Speaker
but they're not really able to access it on a professional level affordably. Like you're not going to take your five and 10 year old to go to a Sounders game. Like I just said, you're cause you're spending $500, but you'll take them to a Ballard game because you'll spend a hundred dollars.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, I hadn't really thought of it through that lens, but I think that is a role that League Two clubs can lean into and market and play a role in more than you might think as far as laying the foundation for...
00:18:51
Speaker
ah exposing the game to people who might not otherwise get a chance to for affordability reasons, which that is, it feels like always a prominent issue when it comes to youth soccer.
00:19:03
Speaker
So ah if, if these clubs lean into that and remember our interview with Corey Hintorn, West Seattle junction, stuff like that is what he was talking about as the role of the, that club in that community as much perhaps as even the results on the field.
00:19:19
Speaker
So I think like they already play some of that role as we kind of saw at that game, but leaning into that aspect of it and promoting that aspect of it more and more.
00:19:30
Speaker
I think that not only helps a club, a league to club grow, but like you said, ah helps lay the foundation for growing the game as a whole. I love it. I love it. It was fun. And go Ballard. Soccer wise boys. You're bunch of chumps.
00:19:45
Speaker
The East Coast sucks. Vermont. Who's ever like what do you I've never been. It might be cool. I know like it's probably cool or whatever, but like, come on, like this. We're really gonna. I think Burlington is like widely considered cool, but I'm not going to adhere to that.
00:19:59
Speaker
It's not OK. Like they gave us Bernie Sanders and stuff like, oh, cool. Like, yeah, like one of the greatest politicians of our generation. Cool. Whatever, man. And the past seven generations because he's super old.
00:20:11
Speaker
OK, whatever, man. Like, all right, Vermont, whatever up the bridges. Up the bridges. If you have any ah additional thoughts on ways that the Seattle Sounders or at any MLS club could improve the fan fan experience in the ways that we're discussing, go ahead and drop them in the YouTube comments.
00:20:29
Speaker
Tell us if we missed anything. ah All right. Let's get into the we got one Sounders headline news item today to talk about. And then we'll hit our agenda check.
00:20:41
Speaker
uh snyder brunell signing official he's officially a member of the first team this had been expected for like three weeks but now they finally announced it he talked to uh media at long acres today i think or yesterday i think it was today which is always that's always a fun thing like the the homegrown kids signing and then getting to do media and really it's like symbolic of their actual
New Signings and Player Potential in Seattle Sounders
00:21:05
Speaker
ascent to the first team So, ah yeah, he's um he Snyder Burdell is in the fold, and I think he's actually going to be playing.
00:21:14
Speaker
They're going to give him some run, maybe in Leagues Cup here, but he's going to get his opportunities because we've talked a lot about how they don't really have a like-for-like Christian skill set player profile type replacement or contingency plan with JP out for at least, I don't know, I'm considering JP out for at least a month plus here.
00:21:34
Speaker
So I think Snyder Burnell is at least going to get some to some extent a crack at being the guy to fill that role, because as I understand it, he is more in that in that mold of a traditional defensive midfielder who can ah provide somewhat of that, like the defensive physical presence. I don't expect him to come in at age 18 and be an Ozzy Alonzo destroyer right away. But he can provide some of ah some of those attributes that Christian can, ah theoretically.
00:22:02
Speaker
And also, the thing that intrigues me about him, Noah, is that at least in MLS Next Pro, he's been a very prominent part of the attack. like He gets on the stat sheet in that league. He's scored ah a bunch of goals. He's got a bunch of assists for them.
00:22:16
Speaker
he's ah He's got some genuine gifts, it appears, as a facilitator, which make him, ah they think that he's a well-rounded player like that. So we'll see if he can, ah you know, become the next Obed Vargas, Josh Atencio type trajectory. trajectory But it'll be fun to see if he can do it because i think it's not a situation where they're bringing him up to not play him at all ever. Like, I i think that Schmidt seems to like him, too, which is important. Schmidt seems to like him. So I think he is going to get a crack ah at it. Any thoughts on Snyder Burnell officially joining the first season?
00:22:50
Speaker
It's awesome, man. I think that this has been rumored for a long time. I think Sounder at Heart reported that this was happening like months ago, but it was it was like three weight initial four weeks ago. um Yeah. And so it's it's ah it's an awesome opportunity for him. i mean, clearly they're lacking in defensive midfield depth in that kind of six bruiser role, like you've been saying.
00:23:09
Speaker
So I'm stoked to see what he has to play because we we watched him in and the Open Cup match. believe he played in that match. And and you look he looked good. If it wasn't that match, I watched him in another Defiance match. and He has been know like a star player in MLS Next Pro. One of the better players at that position in that league. He's considered. With the acknowledgement that I don't watch Tacoma Defiance week in, week out to be able to say that. But that's my impression of how he's thought of at that You're lacking on the grind, Ari. I thought you were supposed to be the the the the pundit here. it sure not I'm not going to sit here and say that I know the nuances of Snyder Burnell's game.
00:23:47
Speaker
You're not a real grinder. If you look at how the people who do watch those games week in and week out talk about it, he's considered a star. Who are those people, by the way? Is it Matt Doyle? I don't think Doyle is the next pro guy, but there are there are jeremiah there are next pro guys out there for sure.
00:24:04
Speaker
Jeremiah watches, I think. So, I think yeah i mean, so, standard art. Go read the, di I don't know, whatever. Yeah. Welcome, Snyder. We're stoked to have you, brother. All right. Should we hit an ad break and then hit our ah ah agenda check? We should do that.
00:24:16
Speaker
um right. hit an ad break. We're going to take an ad break. We'll be right back with our agenda check. This episode of Lobbing Scorchers is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based cellar. Not only are they a local company, but they've been supporting independent Seattle soccer media since 2011 and are run by Sounders fans.
00:24:32
Speaker
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00:24:44
Speaker
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00:24:56
Speaker
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00:25:09
Speaker
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00:25:23
Speaker
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00:25:43
Speaker
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00:25:56
Speaker
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00:26:11
Speaker
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00:26:42
Speaker
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00:26:55
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00:27:24
Speaker
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00:27:35
Speaker
Welcome back and thank you for definitely, absolutely not skipping our ads. If you did, hold If you did... hold on if you did um' I'm sending you off.
00:27:47
Speaker
If you skipped our ads, I'm giving you a red card. Audio listeners, I'm literally holding up ah like a red card right now. Like a Seattle Sounders fullback. you will Like a Seattle Sounders fullback. You'll be shown the exit.
00:27:59
Speaker
You will be suspended. yeah All right. We got a lot of agendas to to get to coming off this Atlanta game. So I guess let's just ah let's just dive into it We can rapid fire a couple of these if we need to.
00:28:11
Speaker
But let's start. with the man himself who was the subject of a spirited debate on our on our last show, Pedro de la Vega. We're calling it what the agenda was last year, i guess, for this.
00:28:24
Speaker
Pedro de la Vega is the savior agenda. ah we We discussed... that last week a little bit, whether it was what the timeline is for being able to ah say that.
00:28:36
Speaker
And I think, you know, we all agree that ah time will tell what the stock of this agenda ultimately ends up being. It's it's a bit of a crossroads moment for it, I would say. But after another very good goal against Atlanta United, and I think it is, ah you have to say that this agenda is heated up.
00:28:56
Speaker
It's heated up even ah to a greater extent than it had after the ah San Jose game, which was obviously the best all-around game we've seen from Pedro de la Vega. So ah still a long way to go.
00:29:09
Speaker
Still a long way to go, but trajectory upward. I mean, you were hitting me hard on this one before, so now you're now you're taming your own takes back. I think you should go for it and really say how you feel about Pedro being the next savior.
00:29:24
Speaker
I think you should own this one. No, i well i know I think you should. i I think i if you go back and listen to it, I agreed with the caveats you were trying to give as far as it like you can't say it based off one game. I felt like you were going down the it doesn't count route. You were trying to burn me though hard, so I'm just coming back. I'm putting the fire to your feet too. yeah i think you got to own this one.
00:29:47
Speaker
Well, what did I say that was getting put in the cart before the horse? I was just trying give him credit. I mean, I wasn't saying anything either, but I was getting the heat too. I mean, you know, we have the overlord, Jeremiah. He agreed with me.
00:30:00
Speaker
you were You were getting the heat because you were attempting to downplay ah the significance, the potential significance of the of the performance.
00:30:12
Speaker
I mean, that's what I was. I recall as I recall as I recall your honor as I recall I caveat it all of that with a like three minute long Pedro de la Vega was really good in this game.
00:30:27
Speaker
At the start of it. Right. So I think, I think that I was vindicated there. I think you had your sights set on me, which is fair, which is fair. That was good content. But now I'm coming back for you, Ari. I think you have to own this agenda. I think you have to say, he's the same. You gotta, you gotta to just bite it.
00:30:43
Speaker
You gotta just, you gotta just go for it. I'm egging you on to go for it and say he is the savior. I mean, I have no problem saying that if he keeps playing like this, he's the savior. it's i like I'm not going to ah i'm not goingnna get sucked into the game of ah but hes taking making up making a proclamation off of... ah I mean, I admit it at the time, one to two good games, you can't say anything off of that.
00:31:08
Speaker
Like, or like definitively. It's about like laying the baseline to get to where we want to see it go, which is, i think that I'm pretty sure I'm saying exactly the same thing that I, ah that I said.
00:31:19
Speaker
Well, hey, i if you're saying that, then I agree because I think that it was a, it was a solid saving your ass performance in the second half. I don't think that he was bad in the first half, but I think the whole team was bad in the first half.
00:31:32
Speaker
um And, you know, a great individual effort on goal. That's awesome. You can't really take that away from him. So ah roll him into league's cup and see how he does. I mean, that's his position to lose now. So that's kind of where it is, right? Like, do I think he's the savior?
00:31:48
Speaker
No, no, I still don't. I still think that, uh, that there's, there's too much to be proven from him there, but, uh, He's looking like a $2 million dollar player now.
00:31:59
Speaker
let's Let's see if he can get up to a $7 million dollars player. And let's see if he can make it up to a valuable DP level. Let's see. I'm ready for it. I'm excited. He's not there yet, but he's getting there. That's the reality of the situation is like that Leagues Cup and ah the rest of the regular season and into the playoffs. All that stuff is going to be determinative on this one way or the other.
00:32:23
Speaker
But I mean, you definitely he's off to a he's off to a good start. it a i have a good start so And like, I think last thing on this, just when I you know, when I think about the stuff that i that you need to see from a ah designated player week in week out, we've talked about it a lot. It's those it's those game changing plays. It's those impact plays. It's scoring a goal in a moment like that when you're down one zero on the road.
00:32:46
Speaker
ah Like even on ah on a day where the the offense had a really not good first half and ah you were still sitting on zero goals in like the 50th minute or whatever.
00:32:59
Speaker
But like a good a good DP who is living up to their stock will ah we'll give you that game changing moment, even if the game isn't necessarily going like you want it to.
00:33:10
Speaker
So he
Evaluating Player Performances and Positions
00:33:11
Speaker
did that in this game. he he He did build off what he did in the San Jose game like we were wondering and asking him to do. So it was it was a good goal.
00:33:22
Speaker
It was good stuff. And his stock is definitely up playing in that left-wing spot. ah Next agenda. One more. one more i have to I have to caveat it all one more time and just say, let's also remember who he's played. San Jose and Atlanta.
00:33:36
Speaker
San Jose and Atlanta. If he can... that There's nothing to say. there's I'm not taking away his goals. I'm not doing anything. I'm just saying San Jose and Atlanta, give him Leagues Cup. If he can cook during Leagues Cup, I think that's way more undeniable than San Jose and Atlanta.
00:33:53
Speaker
That would count. That would count. I would count. in leagues i'm Apparently, I'm wrong. You know what? Fuck it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it, Ari. They don't count. They don't count. All right. All right. yeah I'll do it. Why not? For the content.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah, I like it. ah Next agenda. ah The new who should regain his starting job agenda. um i Big red X. This is my big red. I don't know if I i don't know if i i don't know if I've seen like a widespread ah like clamoring on this agenda, but I think it's worth talking about because new who did make his return from suspension in Atlanta.
00:34:27
Speaker
And i think it's, ah he played really well. He, but you know, he didn't get ejected. So that's hurdle number one that he needed to clear. And he cleared that.
00:34:38
Speaker
ah He was pretty much good on defense. I think maybe he had like one play, I think that he got beat or whatever, but it didn't lead to ah goal. And other than that, he didn't do anything egregious.
00:34:53
Speaker
And then he had the assist on ah on the Osase goal that should have been the game winner, which I'll ah i'll say, like, ah you know, we talk about Nuhu as this black hole in attack, and that's what he has been for most of his career.
00:35:08
Speaker
And I would say that's largely remained true this season when he's been on the field. But he does have a career high in goal contributions, that is here That's true.
00:35:20
Speaker
ah You know, i don't like that. I don't think that means that he's the greatest attacking left back in the world all of a sudden. But that's ah that's more than he usually gets. That's I mean, it's the most he's ever provided with some games left to potentially pad that. So I think it is actually fair to say at this point that he has improved that aspect of his game a little bit ah this year.
00:35:41
Speaker
So that's not it's not nothing as far as if he should immediately regain his starting rollback. um If it was me, if it was me coaching the team, i would ah i would not give him hint it back for like this next upcoming game on Thursday necessarily.
00:36:00
Speaker
Maybe not even the one after that. But if he continues to I'll put it this way. If he continues to clear these hurdles and show that he can remain on the field and positively contribute to the team, he's probably still the best option at left back on this team as much as some people might not like it. ah I don't think RBW did anything to like put a stranglehold on the role in front of him as far as like, if we're talking just purely on the field, red cards notwithstanding,
00:36:33
Speaker
So I do think regardless of what we think about it, he probably is going to end up getting the starting job back. Do you see that any different? I mean, to caveat the, ah because it's a world full of caveats today. um We can't, we can't jump to conclusions off of one game, right? Like,
00:36:52
Speaker
I don't know. Like if I say that about Pedro de la Vega, I have to say that about new who too. And I don't think that new who did anything it spectacular in this game. He had a goal contribution. He had a very nice ah cross, but I don't, but he also almost got beat.
00:37:08
Speaker
And there's, there were times where he was iffy. i mean, I'm not saying the read looked much better. He kind of got cooked by Almada. Here's what I'll say. if I had to choose between roughing it out with Reed, making some mistakes in getting starts and actually building up his profile over playing new who and potentially having him crash out again and throw the ball because sample size dictates and tells us that he's good for one crash out. Maybe he's got it out of his system, but you know,
00:37:40
Speaker
You never know. People say lightning doesn't strike twice, but it could. it could. And all of that to say, i just, i think Reed has so much more upside.
00:37:52
Speaker
ah his His floor is much lower, but like for me, I'd much rather see Reed playing in that position. working with De La Vega, working in that space and like really just building up his own stature and standing so he can take over that position. And that's my take.
00:38:09
Speaker
I think that new who looked fine and good coming in, in that, in that substitution role. That's awesome. keep like Keep letting him do that. He closed out the game, didn't get a red car, didn't crash out and scored an assist. Like,
00:38:24
Speaker
I'm very proud of you should not re regain his starting job just yet though. I think he, I think we got to give Reed some more run for his development and, and that's the truth and it's leagues cup.
00:38:35
Speaker
So let him run, let him run leagues cup. That's, i I just think, I think the run of crash outs got to a place where again, if I was, if I was making this call, I would bring him off the bench for at least one or two more games here as, as just sort of like a symbol of like, if you, if you go on a run of crash outs like that, it's going to be a systematic multi-game process to reassert yourself and re-earn your spot. And if you do that, then you will, then you will get it back.
00:39:05
Speaker
I hear what you're saying about ah ah being more, be more inclined to give RBW minutes to develop and develop chemistry with De La Vega and live with some of the growing pains.
00:39:16
Speaker
I just don't expect the coaching staff to see it like that. I think as far as defensively, which we know Brian Schmetzer values lot, he's still going to, for now, well-new who is in this earn-your-spot-back phase. But I think if push comes to shove in a big game, say they make a run in Leagues Cup and they have a semifinal game where they have a chance to go to the final, think I would be pretty surprised if anyone but knew who got the start in that type of situation because ah ah the coaches are also like taking, you know, a career's worth body of work into account. And Schmetz, schmetd we don't we don't have to like it.
00:39:55
Speaker
People don't like it. But Schmetz has kind of that level of trust in knew who to put him out there in big games and big moments. that I think he probably doesn't have in RBW at this point. So i that's just how i I see where it stands. Well, and it's I've so i said this before, but like the way that MLS is structured, he's going to play regardless. He's on the roster.
00:40:18
Speaker
he's a he's a He's a defender. He's going to play. That's just how it works. Like, you don't... roster players and then not play them at his salary at his pedigree so it doesn't matter what we think at all regardless if he starts or not he's going to play he's going to get minutes and that's just that's the end of it so I think at the end of the day what I hope is that he doesn't crash out again Because I just don't... I'm not really with that.
00:40:45
Speaker
I'm not really with that. If the crash outs continue past this and and the pattern that pattern keeps going, then he's just like not going to be on the team much. I think i think he must he has to understand that at this point. That like if it continues like that, then that he's not going to be on the field and probably not to be on the team. He's the lion, bro. He can't change the lion, bro.
00:41:08
Speaker
You can't cage the lion. Spicy teriyaki unleashes the beast. You can't cage the lion, Ari. I'm sorry. You just can't. We'll see. We'll see that he's going to get the opportunity to show that he can make it through more than one appearance without getting ejected.
00:41:24
Speaker
ah Next agenda, the Osase de Rosario should be unleashed agenda. He scores the go-ahead goal at ah at Atlanta, first MLS goal. ah Number nine depth with Jordan Morris being injured all year has been in an issue.
00:41:39
Speaker
What do you do if Danny Musavsky can't go? Do you slide Ferreira over? That's one option that Nico and I were talking about on kickoff, and we'll get to that later. that That's what we think they're going to do as the first choice for when Danny Musavsky isn't in the starting 11th.
00:41:54
Speaker
Uh, but if Osaze wants to boost his stock and get more minutes, the the thing that he has to do is score goals. So he did do that in his last appearance. And, uh, he, I think looking at that goal in particular, it showed kind of of a physical skillset that, uh, Moose and Ferreira don't necessarily have as far as just, he's just a, like a, that goal that he scored. I'm not comparing these two players.
00:42:18
Speaker
But that goal he scored was like a Benteke type of goal where you're just such a stout, physical, big presence in the box. You're just standing in front of the center back, literally just standing like a statue there. And then the cross comes in. And because you're so big, the dude can't get around you and you're just able to flick the header.
00:42:34
Speaker
That's not really the type of goal that Moose has been scoring this year or that I would expect Jesus Ferreira to score if he gets any sort of extended run. at that position. So I'm not like ah passionately clamoring for this agenda, but I think the, the one thing that he could do to get me intrigued by this agenda, he just did in the, in the Atlanta game, he scored a goal and kind of showcased ah a, a skillset that the other forwards on the roster don't offer to what he theoretically could.
00:43:05
Speaker
So ah I'm, ah I'm, I'm intrigued and cautiously optimistic regarding this agenda. How are you feeling about the Osaze stock? I like Osase a lot. I mean, his next pro play was insane.
00:43:17
Speaker
Like, I mean, he was breaking that league completely and I love his holdup play. I love the way that he plays. He does remind me, he reminds me of like a combination of Ben tech, and Jordan and moose in a way like very tall, very stout, not the, not the pace and like field stretching of Jordan, but like, no, far as no, I'm not saying presence in the box. Yeah.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, and and I think for me, i would love to see him get run over Jesus Ferreira at the nine. And yes, I would like for him to be unleashed because for me, i don't really believe, like I believe in Jesus Ferreira, but he's played so well on the wing.
00:43:58
Speaker
id like I like, don't. I just don't understand the value of pulling him from that position because who's going to go and slot into their Pedro de la Vega. Well, Pedro de la Vega isn't playing well on that side. So it's like, I think that running Jesus Ferrer on that wing, you can still tell him that he can get more vertical and take more shots when you have a player like Osase in there. And he can maybe,
00:44:20
Speaker
interchange and intertwine with Osase and play kind of as like a false nine at times and just slot into that position. I like that a lot more than telling Jesus Ferreira to just play the nine, which has not been effective in any shape or form.
00:44:37
Speaker
And then he's finding his rhythm on the wing. Like I just, I i would much rather see Osase. I think that He plays a lot better to how the Sounders have been successful. He needs to be way better on defense. He needs to be more aware. There are times when he is not completely there. Like he kind of is ball watching a little bit.
00:44:57
Speaker
And I think that that just comes down to like the the speed of play change from next pro to MLS and the counterattack that the Sounders are playing with. You know, he's got to get back.
00:45:09
Speaker
And Brian even and hinted on this ah as a part of like last that breaking down the game in Atlanta because he didn't step towards Miran Chuck.
00:45:20
Speaker
and got kind of confused at Danny Leyva. He takes the shot there. I don't blame either of them truly for that absolute screamer of a goal. But the thing is, there is a.0001 chance that that happens. So you don't even want to give him that chance.
00:45:34
Speaker
So I think there's things that he can improve his game on. But like... I would love to see him. I would love to see him play as Moose's backup rather than playing as the backup to the backup because I think he would be a lot more successful than Jesus Ferreira.
00:45:50
Speaker
And that's coming from someone who believes in Jesus Ferreira and needs him to score multiple more goals so I don't get a tattoo. So it's going against my own best interest, but I do think that if they can like get him right and get him fit in there, he could he could absolutely be a monster.
00:46:07
Speaker
I mean, what you're talking about there is actually a perfect segue into the next thing I had on the list, which was the Jesus Ferreira number nine, the whole debate agenda, because Nico and I kind of inadvertently caused some controversy on kickoff when we were plugging in Jesus Ferreira up top as what we felt like Schmetz, there's a good chance that Schmetz is going to do at times in this tournament whenever Moose is going to do.
00:46:32
Speaker
isn't starting to me. That seemed like the obvious secondary choice, ah like Moose contingency plan with Osase being the option, the clear, like number three option after that. But our chat, did our our chat, a few of our chatters really didn't like us putting it on. And and the yeah, exactly. It's kind of the same group of people, but they were, they were talking about ah like one thing that you mentioned, which is sort of the track record that we've seen this season when they have ran that.
00:47:02
Speaker
I think that issue in particular, i i just see a little differently in that ah that was that was definitely true early in the season, like when he was first getting integrated on the team.
00:47:13
Speaker
ah And they ran that a couple of times in and a couple road games, one at St. Louis and one at San Diego. And we both we all remember that those two games did not go particularly well for Seattle offensively or really, ah in the case of the San Diego game, any capacity.
00:47:33
Speaker
I think the idea that he hasn't had any sort of effective run there since that period of time is is a little outdated. The last time they ran it was against San Diego and he at home, and he scored game-winning goal. So there is at least one instance of it working, and it was Paul Rothrock on the right who gave him that that service.
00:47:55
Speaker
So I think that's at least one data point where it was successful. And also, I just think he's so much better adapted and integrated with the team at this point compared to earlier in the season when they were struggling with it.
00:48:09
Speaker
And ah ultimately, i think it's something that you honestly have to run more to see if you can get it to a functional place and know that if if if it is, in fact, a viable contingency plan.
00:48:21
Speaker
ah because like sometimes you don't, you just don't know at this point, if it's a situation that is just going to take more time to see if you can maximize what you get out of it. I mean, remember we were talking a lot earlier this season about the struggles that Ferreira and Rusnak were having playing together and getting in each other's ah space. And now nine and 10,
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah, and they've now, they've, ah well, also no, also when Ferrer was in the wide channel as well. Was he on the left and like in those games? I can't remember any. was he Or he has he been on the right? I literally cannot remember. I think he was on the right, and I think the issue, to my memory, was that he was sort of drifting into Roosnack's 10 role, and they were sort of stepping on each other's toes, and it brought into question whether their skill sets could function effectively together on the field at the same time.
00:49:07
Speaker
And it was a valid question at the time based on what we were seeing on the field. ah But then over the last month or so, i think that has like I have no really ah qualms or anxiety about them.
00:49:19
Speaker
But I think they've solidified themselves, in fact, as part of the front four playing together. They combined really well for a goal at Sporting Kansas City. Ferreira in general has been a lot more productive over the last month and the ah the offenses looked really good over these last four games. They have 11 goals in their last four games with Jesus Ferreira and Albert Rusnak both starting and playing most all of those games.
00:49:42
Speaker
So I think those are things to be taken into account. And then as far as whether he should, how much run he should get at the number nine. I do want to, like I said in the last agenda, I do want to see Osaze get his looks there as well. I think him scoring a goal is ah is a good reason to try that more.
00:50:00
Speaker
But ah it also comes down to just like, what are your options based on where you're at depth-wise with the Jordan injury and the Noah Ohio thing, like not official yet. You know, that would that would give you another option there.
00:50:15
Speaker
But like with Jordan Morris injured and ah Danny Mussovsky not able to play every single minute of every single game, i like I said, i think you I think you have to run it and see if you can make it work because you just you just need to know one way or the other at a at a certain point to inform how you're going to like approach these situations for the rest of the season. So that's my take on it. Here's here's my my two cents on it. One, I think they will do it because I think I know...
00:50:45
Speaker
Brian Schmetzer. And I think that he'd probably rather give a known entity minutes in a tournament than unknown entity minutes in a tournament, because we'll talk about later to what you have to do to actually advance in leagues cup is very challenging. You need to win every single game basically.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yeah. And, For me, if you want to win every single game, I want to keep people in the positions that they're performing in. I have not seen, yes, that San Diego game. Absolutely. He did score that that match winner, and that was nice. That was great.
00:51:21
Speaker
That was great goal. I just don't see him being as effective playing a full match at the nine than playing a full match on the wing. And so for me, you have other attackers. you you can You can tell him to get in on the attack more and more on that wing role.
00:51:40
Speaker
And he can do that. And he can you can have De Rosario play. And you can have, you know, if it's not working with De Rosario after 45 minutes, you can switch it around. But it's like for me...
00:51:52
Speaker
i would run I would run that if you have to do it. I would run that if you have to do it. Because Jesus Ferreira gives you so much on that wing. He has been so good.
00:52:03
Speaker
So good defensively. So good at moving the ball around. Having that vision. If you can have him, Pedro de la Vega, and then you can swap them around. And listen... let's Let's say that you know you don't have a goal. It's the 60th minute. You're like, okay, we got to try something else.
00:52:19
Speaker
And you put Jesus Ferreira at the nine and you bring on Georgie and you bring on Paul Rothrock for your two wingers, right? Awesome. that's that's That sounds like a great juiced energy.
00:52:30
Speaker
Ferreira can kind of not be as like... mobile and and and have a little bit of the game kind of played out on that wing side and a little bit so more settled.
00:52:42
Speaker
i just like he's confident there. Like he should be playing on the wing. It was the same thing with the 10. When I was like, he looks so good at the 10, he could challenge Rusnak for this spot. It's about where he's feeling confident.
00:52:54
Speaker
I hate the plug and play thing. I hate it so much. I understand why you do it, but it's like... just let him be good and be confident at that position and play that position and work himself up.
00:53:06
Speaker
Because when you're constantly bouncing around, like I know he's a consummate professional. He's one of the best in MLS. People don't want to say it, but his track record speaks for himself. 50 goals. ah It's it just like, just let him let him play one position, goddammit. He's not Christian Roldan.
00:53:23
Speaker
He's not Christian Roldan, okay? He's not. So I would love to not have to see him at the 9 is my final take there, but I don't expect to not see him at the 9. Weren't you saying earlier in the season that he shouldn't play in the wide channel, though? said he looked bad. I said he looked bad in the wide channel. And that they have to play him as a 10?
00:53:42
Speaker
No, i so I just said that. I said that when he was at the 10, my whole point was he looked really, which I mean, you agree. He looked awesome at the 10. I think he did. yeah That was really like Nashville game, right? Yeah. I think he's still a really talented number 10.
00:53:54
Speaker
And I said, like, just let him, let him pick a position for him because they were playing him on the wing and he wasn't looking good on the wing because, and then they were playing him at the nine and he wasn't looking good at the nine. And then they played him at the 10 and he looked great.
00:54:08
Speaker
So my my point was like, okay, he clearly feels more confident in this position. Just stop making it so complicated for him. That was my whole thing. To your point, he is more integrated with the team. He is more understanding, but it's still, stop making it so goddamn complicated for him.
00:54:25
Speaker
Just let him play in one position. He's not Christian Roldan. He's been good on the wing. Okay. Proved me wrong. Absolutely. But at the same time, that was a very different time, very different position, very different setup.
00:54:39
Speaker
So I don't know what to say about that. Like things change. Yeah, like i mean I guess that's that's sort of where that like how how I see it. is like ah there's ah like We already have an example of a situation this year where he wasn't necessarily looking good or effective in one role, but once he got got the run there like in that more wide role and adapted to it, he ended up looking a lot better, a lot more comfortable in producing from that spot. So it's not necessarily... I don't know if they try a similar thing with him
00:55:15
Speaker
up top if it's going to be like a similarly positive adaptation process and he'll look better than he did earlier this season. But my point is, I think I think you have to give it the run to find out because i do think there's a percentage odds that ah it could look better.
00:55:33
Speaker
but Trying it again and giving him more run. ah Because we have an example of it happening with... the No, no, no, why do we want to run him at the 9? Why is that so important? Well, but it's it's about options, I guess, like, like ah ultimately. Like, yeah, you have the Osaze option, but can you, like, really...
00:55:49
Speaker
bank on that uh as like all right if moose isn't uh in the 11 or on the field we we feel just oh you make a signing you feel great yeah i mean yeah that is that would change the calculation but until that that's what i'm saying like i guess i don't understand that like when you have essentially being told to you by the front office that we are going to sign a nine we're going to look for a nine we're going to sign a nine Absolutely. Spot duty emergency. I get that. But it's like, why are we trying to test something out that we know he's not going to do? He's already confident in one position. Like, just let him let him build his his his his stock in that in that space. I mean, he is a written in pen starter on the right side right now.
00:56:31
Speaker
And like, i just i don't I don't quite get shifting him around, even if it's for options. it's It's worth to me more to start someone else who plays that position full-time and will be playing that position full-time and giving them minutes to do exactly the same thing that you're supposed to be doing with Jesus Ferreira and putting in a player who needs to become ah nine in this league.
Strategies for the League's Cup
00:56:56
Speaker
know I hear what you're saying for sure. i just don't I mean... i mean I feel pretty confident that the coaching staff would have reservations about like really committing to Osase as that in that in that role, just just because he's still I mean, he got a goal, but he's still an unproven player who hasn't gotten a lot of.
00:57:19
Speaker
Minutes at all at the MLS level. And like I would I would feel reservations about that, too, for that exact same reason. So it's about like like if you if there's another option of a player who's like more conventional for that skill set.
00:57:36
Speaker
ah that has more experience or a assigning like no Ohio then ah then yeah I would go with that as the as the first choice option but as the roster stands as we record today I think I i think it's the second best option that that you've got for better for worse and you got to find out but we'll we'll Run them against Tijuana. Yeah, we'll find out on Thursday exactly how they handle it. i mean, maybe Moose starts, but we will find out at some point in this tournament exactly how the coaches see it as far as if ah if they're committed to trying and seeing if Ferreira can do it, which is what I want them to do, or if they feature Osaze more, which is what you want them to do, which I think they're both...
00:58:19
Speaker
Ultimately, I think we're going to see both things because the coaches need this information as ah as much as we do. So we'll see what they do on on Thursday, though. I mean, like, for me, just dude, like you could just start them against Santos, start them against Tijuana. Both of them are middle of the table right now, but both, well, at least Santos finished 18th until they finished last in the table.
00:58:41
Speaker
ah in the Klasura last year. So like... and No, the Apertura and the Klasura. So they were literally last place both... both the sections of last season in Liga Mequis.
00:58:54
Speaker
And they're currently in 11th one, one game lost to, and have conceded five goals. Like just like run him against them. They're shit, their ass, their doo-doo like play him, give him a starting job against a team.
00:59:12
Speaker
That's like five. And if, you know, if he sucks for 60 minutes, Do the Ferreira thing. But like, come on. Come on. Give my boys some run. give my boys some run and give Georgie some run.
00:59:25
Speaker
that's a that We don't have that as an agenda, but I was thinking when you were when you were pontificating on who would play in the on that right channel, if Ferrer did slide over, Georgie would be an option that ah that I would want to see. And I do want to see him play in this tournament because that's, I think, ah overall, in in these phase one games, which we're going to talk about, like,
00:59:48
Speaker
experimentation like this is kind of part of what i want to see. it it could even come at the expense of ah how productive the offense is or how much of a chance they have at making a run in the tournament.
01:00:00
Speaker
But these are these are also, you have to balance that with like ah needing to find out if there's like what setups do and don't work when you're not always you're not going to have your first choice front four on every single week and you got to find contingency plans.
01:00:17
Speaker
So that's something you have a chance to do ah in these games with things like the tactical stuff we're talking about or getting players like Osaze and Georgie more runs. So Uh, that's, that's honestly, I'm always more interested in like that aspect of it than I am in how the, how the phase one games go.
01:00:34
Speaker
ah you had, uh, you had two more agendas. Let's, uh, let's hit these real quick. What did you have? Yeah, so my first agenda here is the rest Obed and Christian agenda. These guys, they need a break, Ari.
01:00:45
Speaker
They need a break. these guys These cats have been playing too much, all right? Their hands are bleeding. They've been playing the drums. I don't know where this analogy is going here at all. ah Rock bands. I kind of coached them. Yeah, yeah. Like they've been, they buto you know, they're pounding on the drums ah and they need a break. they need a break These two guys need a break.
01:01:07
Speaker
I just, oh my God, they've played like every single minute of every single game. And it's starting to show. It's starting to show. It showed in that first half of that Atlanta game. It showed in the Colorado game.
01:01:21
Speaker
It's just like, guys, we got to get these guys some rest. I understand that you're hamstrung and you don't have any defensive midfield depth. You've got Snyder now, which is awesome.
01:01:31
Speaker
We talked about that. That'll be helpful. But like, oh my God, please let my boys... Drink a Capri Sun. Get him some orange slices. Yeah. ah For what it's worth, Schmetzer did specifically say in his immediate availability from today that he is planning. He said he's like when he's thinking about the lineups, one of the things he's going to be weighing is ah you know, doing what we were talking about, giving guys run that need it, but also giving guys rest who need it. So he didn't say specifically Christian, but I was encouraged to hear that.
01:02:03
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, i think that's, ah there's just an element of this where it's, I don't think it's even just them necessarily. i think that there's several guys on this team that could use a rest.
01:02:16
Speaker
I mean, i don't know. I put Rusnak in that category, yeah frankly, like he's been putting it in. so Danny Leva at the 10. Yeah, Danny Leva at the 10 agenda. We didn't have that written down. but i mean but maybe Maybe we could see Jesus Ferreira at the 10 then. If they are going to rest. if they're going to run Yeah, Ferreira is a guy that I would put in the could arguably use some rest category. Correct. like You also, you do have to play some of your big dogs. You got to play someone. You got to play someone. And I think, ah I think, I think guys like Ferreira and Rusnak, I expect to be out there more. I mean, you know, we're talking about this and we're going to look at the 11 on Thursday and it's going to be rolled chrisro condo bed vagas
01:03:00
Speaker
But maybe, you know, maybe not. And then, you know I'll be interested to see what they do with the double pivot in that event. uh we nico and i projected it it as alex rolled on and and obed so that's that's kind of what i'm expecting to see ah obed i'm i'm like a little less concerned about from the standpoint of like he has way fewer miles than christian does on his legs for his career and uh i think protect him you gotta sell him
01:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, you I mean, you also, you don't want to run him into the ground. So it's tough, but, like, I also know that Schmetz has been playing him pretty consistently all year and that ah theoretically with where he's at in his career, he might not need the rest as much as Christian clearly does.
01:03:50
Speaker
So we'll ah we'll see if our boy can can get a breather finally.
Potential Transfers to Enhance the Sounders
01:03:55
Speaker
Like, we've been, i think we've been beating this drum for a while. Like, they need to they need to give him some rest, so.
01:04:01
Speaker
I think even with this game on Thursday being against the league, I'm a key opponent. I would rather see them rest Christian for this game. think he's probably not going to, but we can dream. What was your, what was your last agenda here? Well, my final agenda, I think that this would really, we wouldn't even have to have any arguments, Ari, if this was, if this was to happen. So I'm asking for peace, Craig, I'm asking for peace. Please bring it upon us.
01:04:28
Speaker
The sign Noah, Ohio agenda. Listen, I know it's up. It's literally completely up to Noah, Ohio at this point. The ball is in his court. The offer has been made. The terms have been agreed. It's just, if he wants to come to MLS or not, dude,
01:04:40
Speaker
Bro, MLS is sick. It's awesome. It's so good. It's so cool. It's epic. It's fire. It's it's woke. It's flames. What other what other ah youth slang? You get to come to a place that famously has just awesome weather all the time. Yes, i'm dude. like Look at it outside today. like That's what it's like all the time. I'm going to go to the the lake after this. like Dude, don't you want to come here?
01:05:06
Speaker
It's going to be awesome. Don't worry about... The playoffs in November and December, we don't have to talk about that. It's fine. Pray that you don't have to go up north. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Everything's fine, dude. It's a great place to play. Noah, Ohio, sign with Sounders. Please, i'm I'm begging you. I'm begging you.
01:05:24
Speaker
We need you here. it would be ah It would be a fun little subplot. It would give us a new ah new thing to talk about, a new player to watch. It's always it's always like fun picturing like a player that yeah Seattle is linked to in the jersey and like discussing how they could fit and stuff and then seeing it actually happen. so ah I'm with this agenda. i mean I feel like I've been pretty consistent in that...
01:05:52
Speaker
that a player of this type of profile price tag and all that the hit rates. If you look at other MLS teams, they're not especially high, but I, I wouldn't, I don't wouldn't mind at all of them.
01:06:03
Speaker
You got to take swings. You got to You got to try. I wouldn't mind at all if they did take a swing and, uh, See if you see if it can work out and see if you can like kind of make these tactical debates that we were having earlier, like a little less of an issue where you're having to move guys out of their best or whatever their preferred position is.
01:06:23
Speaker
He would help that and it would be a fun subplot. So ah I'm with this agenda. Okay, i have one more. I added one more. I know we're doing marathon agenda check here, but it has to be said. Matt Doyle, ah famously the guy who sits on the armchair.
01:06:38
Speaker
do you know Do you know about this guy, Ari? Yeah. you heard you heard've heard of him a couple times, yeah. ge was talking about... ah but but He was pontificating. He was theorizing. he was saying, you know, there's a lot of teams that could use one of the Sounders players who's really getting a little bit of run.
01:06:53
Speaker
So I'm going to dub this the Matt Doyle transfer Ryan Kent to an MLS team agenda trade Ryan can I'm sorry trade Ryan Kent to another MLS team agenda Ari.
01:07:03
Speaker
How do you feel about this? And then I'll give my take. I mean, I would say i yeah I feel similar to any other trade proposition in that, like, there's a price for everyone. Like if the value that you're going to get is good and you can use that to improve the team and you feel good about where your depth is at that position to be able to, you know, withstand not having him on the on the roster in that spot.
01:07:29
Speaker
then yeah, I mean, it just ah it just depends what the compensation is. if it's like a ah If it's like a super low ball, not good deal just to get him off the books and move him for the sake of moving him, then I would not support that. But if someone comes in with just like a super sick offer, either monetarily or for for a really good player at another position of need, then like I said, price price for anybody.
01:07:56
Speaker
like And with Ryan Kent... In particular, i thought he looked better in the Atlanta game, but he hasn't really been that effective for the last ah month or so. I've been saying that I still have my stock, and I think that he can be closer to the type of player we saw when he first got to the team. So from that perspective, I'm not like hankering to move him.
01:08:16
Speaker
But if the money's right or the compensation is right, then I wouldn't i wouldn't be steadfastly against it. I just, why, he's not playing.
01:08:27
Speaker
Like, I don't know what he can do to get on the field. Like, he's now buried... He played in the last game without a secondary assist. Yeah, but he's he's playing 10 minutes. He's subbed on in the 80th minute.
01:08:38
Speaker
I think he's going to get... I think he's going to get a lot more run in Leagues Cup. I would be surprised. But how much more complicated does that make the left wing? You already have Pedro de la Vega, who is, you know, the hot hand. You have Paul Rothrock, who had...
01:08:52
Speaker
basically become the penciled-in starter. And I think, honestly, if Pedro takes a slip, he might pop back up in that position. Ryan Kent, you have... Yeah, like that's that's your top three, right? like Who else can play over there?
01:09:05
Speaker
I don't know. like Maybe Georgie? I'm not sure if he can switch wings, but it's just like you're a team full of wingers, man. and like he He's not breaking into that side at all.
01:09:15
Speaker
He's not breaking into the right side. He's not even played there one time. We've heard from other people that he can basically play anywhere. He's played at the 10. He's played at both the left and right wings. just... he just i don't know I don't know what the value is in letting him sit on this roster.
01:09:32
Speaker
He has already had such a hard time with literally this exact same situation. He's doing the same exact situation that happened at Bestikas, or whoever, Ferbache.
01:09:44
Speaker
ah And I just feel bad for him man. like He's very clearly a talented player, but very clearly... Just he's not getting any run. He's not looking good.
01:09:54
Speaker
i mean, we saw Moose when he wasn't getting run and he wasn't confident. He looks terrible. i I dubbed him the worst player to ever play soccer. And guess what? Once he got playing time and starts and everything, I had to eat shit.
01:10:07
Speaker
And i'm it's the greatest it's the greatest shit I've ever ate, Ari. It tasted like taste it like those ah those like ah chocolate pudding mud pies. And it was delicious. okay But the reality is like he's a good player.
01:10:20
Speaker
I just feel bad for him. And like personally on a personal level, like I want him to be able to play soccer because he's good at it. And he looked like the best player to ever play in a Sounders kit for approximately two matches.
01:10:32
Speaker
And I feel like he can still be that, that player. I have my stock as well. I think maybe he could do that on another team and maybe that's, that's doing right by the player. And maybe then if there's no Ohio deal, doesn't work out, you can bring in a nine.
01:10:45
Speaker
i want to i i want to see i want to see more. i want to see more before they do something like that. I think there are going to be opportunities for him to get more run than he has been getting.
01:10:56
Speaker
And I think, for me at least, what we saw at the beginning in those first couple games was so good that if there's like any possibility at all... that you could have you can get him rolling again and playing it back even to like 70, 80% of that level.
01:11:11
Speaker
that you you I think the upside with him ah that we saw in his early days on the team was what? Like probably in the top five to 10 best wide playmakers in the entire league, like if he could have sustained it. So just just the fact that we saw that type of upside with him at all, even if it was only for two games,
01:11:31
Speaker
That had me intrigued enough to ah for me to put my put some stock down to where, as we sit here today, ah going into League's Cup, I want to see them give him some more extended run in this tournament and try and try and recapture the glory. I'm not saying that's for sure going to happen. I definitely agree that the whole ah experience has not like lived up in the last few weeks to what we saw at the beginning.
01:11:55
Speaker
But, um man, it was it was electrifying. So, yeah, like I don't want to give him my stock either. He's an amazing player, but it's also like at the same time. He can't he can't be better if he doesn't play.
01:12:08
Speaker
And how is he going to play there? Like there's going to be opportunities in League's Cup for him to play. Like, I'm not worried about that. I don't know if it's going to be ah like playing 80, 90 minutes a match, but he's going to play and we're going to be able to get a better idea of.
01:12:22
Speaker
where uh where things stand because the other thing i've been saying about him is that like uh for all the talk about how he's been like a total zero since those first two games i don't think that's totally true i think that there are at least like three to four very high level chances that he's generated that could have added to his assist hold like that one that ferrera missed he Yeah, or the one that Alex Roldan missed in Vancouver, the one that Georgie was offsides for in the FC Dallas game.
01:12:51
Speaker
And then he got the secondary in Atlanta, which whatever you think of that, if you if you just grant a reality where he got that where those chances were converted, he would be up to seven assists in the league. So, ah like, he's, to me, he's played at the level of a player who could have had that output with, you know, some better finishing.
01:13:12
Speaker
So that's just another reason why I'm like, man, like, maybe that player of those first two games is still in there some somewhere. So this this tournament this tournament is going to, like, I think, inform how how we see his stock a little better. So let's say he gets back to that level, right? Which, inshallah, let's hope, right? Like, I won.
01:13:30
Speaker
What happens then? Now you have three left wingers. You have a good problem to have. Yeah, but you have three left wingers that are like all starters. I just... That sounds awesome. That's crazy. That sounds like the greatest thing ever.
01:13:44
Speaker
That's crazy. like i It would be log jammed for sure, but you would much rather be in a situation... No, you're right. It's just like I've never experienced this as an MLS fan. I just, I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with my hands, Ari. I don't know what to do One thing I've learned is that you you absolutely cannot ever have like too much depth in this. no you You can think that you're three deep at a position and that can change at the drop of a hat due to yeah iev injuries and like travel and fixture congestion and all that. So if he, any any depth that they can stack up at any position, I'm all in favor of that. You know what? You've convinced me. I'm anti-trans. Don't transfer him.
01:14:19
Speaker
Don't try it. You're right. You're right. Let's see what he can do and against leagues. cut And this is why we do the podcast. And this is why we do the podcast. Exactly. We talk these things through here. All right.
01:14:30
Speaker
Let's take another ad break. We'll come back and close it out with some of ah the national headlines around MLS and then a little more leagues cup talk. We'll be
Lionel Messi's Impact on MLS
01:14:38
Speaker
right back. Welcome back from another ad break that you definitely didn't skip under penalty of perjury, defamation, ejection, ah contempt of court, contempt of advertising. We will throw the book at you.
01:14:54
Speaker
Okay. The attorney general is locked and loaded. Uh, first national headline. Noah, this is a topic that we discussed on our last show regarding a one Leonel Messi ever heard of him, uh, inter Miami, inter Miami player. He's kind of good, I guess.
01:15:09
Speaker
Uh, uh, we were discussing on our last show, whether, uh, whether he should be, and if he would be suspended from, uh, inter Miami is next MLS match after skipping the MLS all-star, you know, call no show at the all-star game.
01:15:23
Speaker
Can't do that folks. you cant I do support a no-call-no-show in some circumstances. I think it's a sick move. When we're talking about the MLS All-Star game, it's not going to be received well necessarily if you do that, particularly if you are the greatest player in the history of the sport.
01:15:39
Speaker
the sport ah Noah, you were saying that they ah had to suspend him. I was saying that I think they probably have to, but weren't going to do it based on how ah Don Garber had been talking about it. It felt like he was laying the groundwork to not do it to me.
01:15:54
Speaker
But ah you were right. They did do it. ah and Messi ended up suspended for the Cincinnati game, which they drew 0-0. Jorge Moss, Inter-Miami owner, had a press conference about it, and he said Messi is not happy.
01:16:07
Speaker
Sure, buddy. So that, I mean, if you that they need to keep him happy. So if he actually is, and i don't I don't know how unhappy he actually is.
01:16:17
Speaker
It's like I said, Ari, he needed a rest. What's wrong with having a rest on the most important match of the entire year? ah for the Cincy match you mean?
01:16:28
Speaker
Both, both. Yeah, both. All-star game most important, obviously. No, I mean, i just i'm I'm surprised they actually did it just just because of how Garber was talking about it. But then Garber's follow-up quotes I thought were pretty funny where he was basically just like,
01:16:41
Speaker
ah you know, no one has done more for the sport in this country than ah than Lionel Messi. And honestly, he literally was saying he was like, he might even be right that this rule is outdated and unnecessary.
01:16:54
Speaker
We're going to look at that. But for now, we unfortunately have to adhere to it. And it's just like, dude, I don't know. Just suspend him. Like, you don't need to... you know Why is he groveling? Because they're trying to have it both ways. That's so cowardly. You're right, and ah we we don't want to to do this to you, our our holy son, but we have to. We're not doing it because we want to We're doing it because we have to and all that stuff.
01:17:17
Speaker
ah But they... What has he done? They did do it. what is I'm sorry. I see this argument all the time. And this is a complete aside, but I'm in a victory lap here, I guess, a little bit. I do not understand the argument that people are saying.
01:17:31
Speaker
Messi has changed American soccer. No one was watching MLS before. And now Messi, guess what? There's less people watching MLS now. You know why? Because it's on fucking Apple TV. And you know why? Because Messi gets a large chunk of that. There are less viewers on average per match watching now in MLS than there were in the previous ah ABC and yeah ESPN deal. Okay?
01:17:56
Speaker
What are you talking about? You're not growing the TV. that you're you're not going the tv Revenue-wise, maybe, but Messi gets like 90% of his shirts. mean, i don't quote me on this, but like 90% of his shirt sales. He literally gets a chunk of all of the TV money. He gets a chunk of the ticket sales.
01:18:11
Speaker
He probably owns half of Inter-Miami at this point. What has he done for American soccer? I ask again. All he does is take games that are supposed to be played in Columbus and move them to Cleveland.
01:18:24
Speaker
Why are the Columbus crew playing in Cleveland? Nobody knows because of Messi. Thank you for growing the game in Cleveland, which will never have an MLS team. Really appreciate that. Thank you, Messi.
01:18:35
Speaker
You've grown the game here in America. When called upon to be an advocate for this league at a semi-international level, you can say that the all-star game is stupid, that it's bullshit, that it's just theatrics.
01:18:49
Speaker
I agree with you. But that's not the point. If you are truly an ambassador for the league, someone who is trying to grow the sport in this country and has grown the sport in this this country, you show up, you shake some hands, you kiss some babies, you do the little skills challenge, you play five minutes in the All-Star game, and you go home, okay?
01:19:08
Speaker
Every single person in MLS did that. They had a great time, smiling faces. It's a fun thing. Get to be on a speed stream. Probably would have had a billion view clip of speed going up and saying, Oh, messy, bro. Uh, Ronaldo's better than you and messy going.
01:19:22
Speaker
I don't speak English. You know, like that would have been awesome. He doesn't do interviews. He won't do anything. Like, this guy isn't grown shit except bring fans to Inter-Miami Games. And guess what? They're not even selling out the Inter-Miami Games now.
01:19:38
Speaker
So I ask again, Ari, what has this guy actually done for Major League Soccer other than big ah be a big pain in the absolute ass for every single person and allow...
01:19:51
Speaker
for just bending of the rules at all junctures. And Don Garber's over here groveling about it. Like have some have some respect for yourself, sir.
01:20:02
Speaker
You have created, listen, a lot of people don't like Don Garber. I don't have a feeling either way, to be honest with you. You have grown this league into something that is actually massive. Have some respect for yourself.
01:20:14
Speaker
Have some respect for yourself. Messi hasn't grown the game in the U.S. at all. I promise you that. Maybe there's some stuff on the margins here, but if you look at the numbers, the league was doing fine before. The league will be doing fine after. This is a blip on the radar.
01:20:29
Speaker
damn, that was hot. That's how I feel. I guess as for Messi's effect on the league and the sport and the country as a whole, I mean, I don't know. if i was I think there's ah there's truth to what you're saying in a lot of ways.
01:20:46
Speaker
If I was devil's advocating just for the sake of discussion. Absolutely. discussion i think I think it is undeniable that there is – think it's undeniable that any – literally any club in the world, Inter-Miami or otherwise, that has Messi on it, there's just automatically a different type of spotlight that comes with that. And like with Inter-Miami specifically, I think we've seen a lot of examples – of like people from all around the world following that team specifically because of messy that otherwise wouldn't be. And I mean, I don't know about the viewership numbers, but I know that supposedly there was a lot of ah season pass subscriptions that were like in large part because of that. So I think like just, just ah his, his viewership numbers at the all-star game and we're, we're giving like unique viewers per match. And it was like,
01:21:43
Speaker
like 180 to two, like something like that, 180,000 to 200,000, something around there. And when it was on actual TV, unique viewers on average per match was closer to 300,000.
01:21:56
Speaker
So the access, sure, absolutely. People are paying to watch Messi, but the amount of people paying to watch Messi, are they going to stay paying for that when Well, that's the leaves no that's the question. That's the question. Like, I mean, i don't know if you can say that definitively. who For all we know, there could be people out there who ah get season pass because they want to watch messy games.
01:22:20
Speaker
And then they find out that they do enjoy following the league. They're a Chicago Fire fan. and they do ah stick around or maybe they'll stay inter or Miami fans. I don't know. Or maybe they'll like from following the league in a way they otherwise wouldn't from watching messy. They find out they like another team or they just find out that they enjoy the league.
01:22:36
Speaker
I don't know if that's going to happen, but that's maybe part of the logic there. But I mean, I do think that any team that messy's on, like I said, is going to have a spotlight on it that it would not otherwise have.
01:22:51
Speaker
And ah like what you were saying about, ah about Cleveland. Like, yeah, I agree that it was silly and ah kind of an affront to lower.com field in Columbus that they moved that out of their normal home and played it in Cleveland. But like the thing of them having to move it to bigger stadiums. They sell out that game, by the way.
01:23:11
Speaker
But I mean, what was the attendance figure like 50 or 60 K? Yeah. So like there was still a really high number, way higher than they could have fit at lower.com field. I'm not saying that means that they should have moved it, but it's like that. That's the thing is like no other player has the effect where they're literally moving stadiums to accommodate like ah tens of thousands of more.
01:23:32
Speaker
I guess it was 60 K. Maybe they didn't sell it out. i don't know. it was It was a huge number either way, whether they sold it out or not. So like that's just a that's just another thing that like he brings to the lead that he uniquely brings to any league that he's But they're not coming to watch MLS. They're coming to watch Messi. And my my whole thing is like, yes, I agree with you that he brings such a unique moment. And what I will 100% argue is the brand value of Inter-Miami is the highest.
01:23:59
Speaker
It used to be LA Galaxy, right? Everyone knew who LA Galaxy were across the world. Because they were just the staple of American soccer, right? i come and all that yeah now Now, you can go to any country in the world and see an Inter-Miami jersey. And that's just true. I see them in Seattle.
01:24:15
Speaker
I see them in Seattle. yeah All the time. Undeniably, Inter-Miami's value has grown as a brand. That said, I don't think that it's growing the game or the brand of MLS or anything like that. Like...
01:24:28
Speaker
I just, and and and I guess this is all to victory lap and say, yeah, you deserve to be suspended. You are not bigger than this league. You are not. This league was around before you. It will be around after you.
01:24:40
Speaker
I'm not saying it's an honor for Messi to play in this league. I understand that this league is stupid and dumb and weird, but it's also my league that I love and that I watch.
01:24:50
Speaker
And i just, I just, i don't understand one, Don Garber groveling to Jorge Moss chirping, shut up three messy being upset.
01:25:01
Speaker
It's you knew what was going to happen. Someone told him that this was going to happen and he still chose to do it. Okay. Like you can't play the victim here. You chose not to go to something and you're getting suspended for a game.
01:25:13
Speaker
Grow up. Like if they would have just said nothing, no one would be talking about this. is that not is like Is that not true? i just I don't know how much i I make of the quote that Moss had where he said that Messi is very upset. I don't believe him.
01:25:29
Speaker
I'm sure he was like ah not thrilled to get suspended, but like i I think I said it on kickoff, but I seriously doubt he was like at his mansion flipping tables over. no exactly I think Jorge Mas was just saying like ah he's very upset because like he you know he wants it to be out there that he's like a competitor and he like wants to play in the game if he's a competitor he should play 10 minutes it i and until we hear reports of like a actual crash out I i don't think that that's probably what happened but uh i i love messy man i do like that's he's been one of my favorite players forever yeah it's been cool to watch what he's done it's awesome envy but undoubtedly an mvp quality talent probably will win it again this year that has made inner miami something but it's just like i kind i very much draw the line at
01:26:24
Speaker
making it all about yourself because i just like i just can't i can't deal with like it's just i'm so thankful we're not in the east i'm so thankful we're not in the east oh my god that's ah the that's ah what you hit on there ah was the uh other point i was going to bring up regarding my devil's advocacy um Which is like, I think you do have to acknowledge the on-field component of it, which has been absolutely insane.
01:26:48
Speaker
The numbers that he is putting, he has 18 goals and seven assists in like 19 games this year. He's the greatest player to ever play in the last handstand. And like, and you know, we've kind of gotten more of a week by week look.
01:27:00
Speaker
at how and why that is. i think we obviously all know and have seen like the stats that he put up in La Liga throughout his career, but like really watching him on Inter Miami week in, week out, he produces statistics, but also just like moments of magic.
01:27:17
Speaker
At a staggering frequency that I've never seen, frankly, from any other player in MLS or otherwise. So I think just having a player that produces highlights and moments and like viral clips and all all that stuff like that.
01:27:34
Speaker
I think there's an argument to be made at least that, that, ah that, that does help bolster the profile of the league. And then subsequently the, the sport in, in the country or whatever league he's playing in at large, just because he's good for so many of them. Like,
01:27:52
Speaker
Every time you look up, he's scoring another goal or getting like a crazy assist, hitting a pass that you wouldn't think anyone in their life would fathom hitting. Like he does all that stuff every game. So that would be just another...
01:28:08
Speaker
arguably important service that he's had the league since he's uh since he's been here i mean keeping him here yeah yeah here man i'd love for him to to to play in an mls until he retires just watching a guy that actually averages like two plus goal contributions per game is just kind of crazy like he uh i've never i've never seen anyone who can rack those like he does so No, I mean, he's he's incredibly impressive. and And like I said, like I have so much respect for him as a player. It's not necessarily my frustration with him as a player or him in general.
01:28:44
Speaker
It's the, not even the media circus around him, but just like the the pure, like, i don't even know i don't even know what to call it. Like, I feel like it's not him, but I don't know.
01:28:59
Speaker
It just feels like this whole, like, He has like a word for it. He has like a cult, like God, like fandom that we've talked about before. That is like definitely.
01:29:11
Speaker
but yeah, they're like, you yeah, he's got rival your league. And it's like, brother, I'm sorry. You don't know anything about Chad Marshall. That might be, that might be, that's wading deep into our TikTok comments. Correct. Correct. And like I said, this is how I'll wrap this up.
01:29:27
Speaker
He deserved the suspension. It's fine if he's upset. i really don't believe Jorge Mas that he's crashing out. I don't think that's true. i think Jorge Mas is needling Don Garber, ah and he's really good at that.
01:29:42
Speaker
He's really good at that, but, you know, whatever. ah Keep Messi in the league. He's awesome, man. I love Messi, but... Dude, just show up the All-Star game. Like, that's that's that's kind of dumb. i can show you yeah I can be critical and also appreciate what he has done, but I do also believe that, like, when this is all panned out, it's going to be a flash. Like, when when it's all when it's all said and done, it's going to be a flash in the pan. People are going to be like, oh remember when Messi played in MLS? Yeah. What's MLS up to now? i don't know.
01:30:10
Speaker
I think like there will be a new narrative that the you there is always something new and shiny and cool moving forward. And maybe it'll be this next signing here that the Whitecaps are about to make.
01:30:21
Speaker
I think how is ah how his legacy ultimately is remembered and the impact that he has is going to be determined by like if they can win stuff like before the era is over. If they actually rattle off a couple MLS cups and like win CCC or something while he's here, then i think it will be it will be remembered like a lot more favorably and like a lot more like a legendary run in the league and stuff like that.
01:30:49
Speaker
And
MLS Signing Practices and Rule Disparities
01:30:50
Speaker
if they... ah if they If their trophy case with him on the team sticks with just being one Leagues Cup, one Shield, then ah i don't think is i think it'll probably but be closer to what you're saying. like It won't be remembered as all that successful. But they he does have an opportunity. there's There's two more trophies for him on the line through the end of the this season, so we'll see if they can do it.
01:31:12
Speaker
um Next headline. ah This is a big one. It was reported today, I believe, Manny Veth, Tom Bogert, give me sport.
01:31:23
Speaker
The Vancouver Whitecaps are signing Thomas Muller, longtime Bayern Munich striker, one of the best bos ah Bundesliga players and German internationals ever. It's a very like, ah it's a classic like big name at the more tail end of their careers, 35 type signing.
01:31:40
Speaker
But yeah, It's definitely like one of the biggest names in global footy. And it's also ah not necessarily the type of move that you normally associate with the whitecaps who are not really known for being like big flashy spenders necessarily.
01:31:56
Speaker
So I think they were sort of like a team that he was linked to LAFC and FC Cincinnati had his discovery rights, which I know people like are like, oh, discovery rights on Thomas Muller. All it means is priority to negotiate. So in a situation where FC Cincy has those discovery rights, then Vancouver has to pay them to like get those, which is what they did, $400K or whatever.
01:32:19
Speaker
And then they actually, looks like, got this over the line. So Thomas Muller is going to be, by all accounts, reportedly, a Vancouver white cap. Uh, my question is, uh, you know, they're, uh, they're bringing bringing them in as a TAM player. And then with the intent of him being a DP next year, are they, uh, are they cheating?
01:32:38
Speaker
Very different situation. or i heard you, ah complaining about this on kickoff where you very much do not understand my argument, which is okay. It's fine. I can break it down for you. Okay. how was it Okay, look, enlighten me. how that was The difference with him signing not as a designated player, a TAM, and then going to a DP is different than loaning a player, having the team that loans the player hold 90% of his salary so you can be under the salary cap, and then you pay that salary back in the transfer fee, which is agreed upon.
01:33:11
Speaker
That's the problem. It's not that you can't go TAM to DP or whatever with escalators like you mentioned. on on your show, ah on kickoff, saying like Jordan Morris, right? Okay.
01:33:23
Speaker
This is something that happens all the time. That's not my argument. Very different situation. He's free to join them. He's a free agent already. There's no transfer about this.
01:33:33
Speaker
The difference is, The Rodrigo de Paul deal, he's being loaned, and Atletico Madrid are absorbing like a shit ton of his salary, if not almost all of it, for this first year.
01:33:46
Speaker
And then they basically have already automatically agreed, which you can't can't really can't really do that under the rules. i mean Apparently you can, but they're agreeing to this purchase option.
01:33:59
Speaker
In that purchase option, they will pay back the salary that Atletico Madrid has paid. And that is what I was arguing to say that that is cheating. Because if the Sounders start signing every single player under the sun to Ballard, because they are funding them or whatever, and then they loan them for, you know, 100K, TAM, you know, the rest of their salaries being absorbed by Ballard FC, why in the world would Atletico Madrid let a player walk
01:34:32
Speaker
for that and absorb their salary to let him go play on loan in MLS for a season with a purchase option with that money not being guaranteed to pay back. That is stupid. That would never happen in a million years. It's bullshit. And they are all lying. The Thomas Mulder thing is completely different. He's a free agent and that's not cheating.
01:34:50
Speaker
That is just a deal where you're like, listen, this is the salary we can pay you now. This is the salary we can pay you later. That happens all the time. I don't think that that is, That's very different than the circumstances in which inner Miami have gotten themselves into with Rodrigo de Paul.
01:35:06
Speaker
And also, I just, I, very different, very, very different. And it's also, I don't understand. I mean, I don't quite like this transfer, but I guess whatever. We can talk about that, but ah as far as the Inter-Miami cheating discussion goes, I mean, ah like... Do you see what I'm saying, though? That's very different.
01:35:26
Speaker
I do. I do. I know you're needling me. I know you're needling me. You're getting me you got me. You got me going. You got me going. but ah ah To me, like what what you're describing is a loophole.
01:35:38
Speaker
Yes. ah loophole for sure. how It is a loophole 100% without a shadow of a doubt. And from that standpoint, I've tried to when you sleep with another woman while you're in a relationship, it's just a loophole, folks. I've i've tried to be. It's just a loophole.
01:35:53
Speaker
I've tried to acknowledge that I understand, like, especially in this situation with Inter-Miami when they already have Messi and the Barca boys, I get why it's annoying that they were able to loophole their way into getting another world-class type talent on their team who is going to be not classified as a DP this year when obviously he's like a DP. He's getting paid. He will be continuing to be paid a DP salary.
01:36:21
Speaker
That's the difference. He will be paid a DP salary, but it will not count as a DP salary on the Inter-Miami books. That is cheating. because Because of the loophole that they're using.
01:36:35
Speaker
But what I would... ah What I would say is that loopholes like this, there's just actually so much precedent, maybe not for this like-for-like exact situation, but for when the when the league when has a club that is linked to a high-profile player like this, and clubs might not necessarily be able to fit them on their books or with their roster classifications or whatever at that exact moment.
01:37:05
Speaker
ah they will They will bend stuff. they will You will see loopholes used in order to just get that type of profile player.
01:37:15
Speaker
The league's not doing anything about it. They're just letting them do this. you you might you might It might strike you as... The reason it seems egregious is because it's this club in particular. with Correct, which they've already done the loophole for multiple times.
01:37:29
Speaker
But ah like there, there's just, there's a lot of precedent for similar situations, which Seattle Sounders fans know because a lot of other fan bases had, ah had this type of reaction when the league pulled some strings to get them Clint Dempsey.
01:37:44
Speaker
It's, that it's not like that different of a type of situation. And there's a lot of other examples that you could point to outside of, ah of just Dempsey or DePaul in this situation. So I think, I think the bottom line is that,
01:37:59
Speaker
While it might be tilting, it's also it's not something that other clubs like wouldn't have the capability to be you Any other any other club that was in their DP roster situation that got linked to Rodrigo DePaul and needed a loophole to get him on the team.
01:38:17
Speaker
They absolutely would be. But do you understand we know how to do it? And you know why? Because the the oligarch class wants as many of these types of players in the league as sure. But they're not going to Montreal.
01:38:30
Speaker
Bottom line. Well, they're not going to Montreal. They're not doing that. And so that's, that's where clubs like LAFC, inner Miami, exactly. seattle In some situations. And that's unfair. They have, that's unfair.
01:38:41
Speaker
It might be unfair, but that's like, that's just, ah I mean, CF Montreal got a Didier Drogba. It wasn't, I don't think there was any like controversy over that, but that was, they got it. He did it straight up.
01:38:53
Speaker
Yeah, but like, as far as you like, if Montreal was in a situation where they were linked to a big name like that, they have been before with a guy like Drogba. Sure. If they were in that situation, i'm I'm pretty sure they would figure out a way accordinging to get it over the line.
01:39:08
Speaker
What about... Sporting Kansas City. I was just giving you another name. I was just... i was just for for For more Houston Dynamo. I don't know. Sporting KC was the club that was linked to Ronaldo. the Yeah, that was fire. That actually deal almost happened. i wish i wish that would have happened. That would have been hilarious to see him in fucking Kansas.
01:39:24
Speaker
um But, dude, no, I... my My issue with it is it continues to be the same. just This was my full take at the time, and I maintain this.
01:39:36
Speaker
I don't give a shit about the rule bending, but I'm going to call it what it is. like you're you you know like I understand you're part of the oligarch class. You've got to defend our our boys here, but like I'm going to call it what it is.
01:39:50
Speaker
It's unfair. whether Whether they do it for other people, that's that's true. They do. I agree with you 100%. It's still unfair. And for me, if you, you can fix this problem at another DP spot. I said this, it's because the broke ass owners don't want to raise the floor.
01:40:09
Speaker
They constantly vote against it. And so this is MLS's way of trying to tilt the scales more and more and more and more towards that. But once you do that, it becomes incredibly unbalanced. And now you have an incredibly unbalanced team in inner Miami, or you have messy, where who is straight up taking a percentage of the entire league's budget.
01:40:28
Speaker
Straight up. Straight up, they are paying... The league is paying for him to play there. Now you have Rodrigo DePaul, where they're just like letting you sign him a year early, when they could do this deal next year, legitimately.
01:40:42
Speaker
There is... I just, I, it does not, it does not make any sense to me. You're stacking this team because you want Messi to be successful and you want him to win something so that he stays happy, so he stays in the league, so that you can get press off of it and all of that.
01:40:59
Speaker
Is that not unfair? Like, and that's, that's very conspiratorial, but that's like taking it to its logical conclusion. i would argue I would argue the Messi and the Barca boys thing to begin with is unfair. It is.
01:41:11
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. yeah That's what I'm saying. i just like you're paying The league is straight up paying that team to have those players. I think there's validity to what you're what you're saying in the sense that there' There's going to come a point where ah you just need to expand like the roster rules and capabilities that teams can do. They just put their finger on this deal too much.
01:41:36
Speaker
But for what I'm saying, i mean you can you can call me a shill, you can call me an oligarch. there That's fine. There is... tons of precedent for a tons of different clubs that aren't inter Miami for doing it twice. this Exact.
01:41:50
Speaker
Not this exact type of no ones getting itwi similar type stuff. And if you are able to like leverage your status as a club for whatever it is with inter Miami, it's like we have messy in the Barca boys and you get to live on the beach with LAFC. It's like you get to be on the Hollywood team and we're going to talk about in a sec to close it out. They're going to sign song, which is another huge name ah in global footy.
01:42:12
Speaker
Uh, if you're, if your club is able to like strike negotiations and have a chance at getting deals with players like this, that, uh, draw more eyes to the clubs and the league over the line, then they're gonna, uh, they're going to find ways to, uh, to do that for you. They've done it for a lot of other different clubs in this league. They've done it for the Seattle Sounders with Clint Dempsey.
01:42:35
Speaker
And but that's always that's just do change that's just the reality of how it works. But like, Those came with rule changes, though. You can't disagree with that. that's That's my problem is that, you like I said before, I said this before, I'm sticking with it because I do agree with it.
01:42:50
Speaker
I'm fine with bending the rules. That's how you get a competitive advantage in sports. But every single time that MLS has put their finger on the scale in the past, which is true, they have done that. They've done that for the Sounders. It comes with rule changes.
01:43:05
Speaker
It comes with rule changes. It comes with solidified change in how every other team can then do that same thing later on. Okay? Landon Donovan, you got the DP rule.
01:43:16
Speaker
You got Tam and Gam as a part of all of this, right? When they have put their finger on the scales in the past, there has been rule changes. Now, with Messi and the Barca boys and all of this Rodrigo DePaul thing, that's not happening.
01:43:31
Speaker
Maybe it will. Maybe it will, but I don't see it happening because I promise you that these other owners are not going to sign. They're not going sign off on a fourth DP. And so it's like, what what are we doing?
01:43:44
Speaker
What are we doing? And maybe I should be less mad at the league and more more mad at the the cheap-ass owners. maybe that Maybe that's where the where the blame lies. But I'm just, you they've done it now twice.
01:43:55
Speaker
Twice for the same team. that's That's just like they're they are trying to push Miami to a championship. Like that's what it feels like. And I don't want to feel like that because that's stupid because they're not even going to win one anyway.
01:44:09
Speaker
Yeah, well, then it shouldn't matter. And it doesn't matter. but like like i think you got it you got it you have to You have to at least admit, and I think you have, that this is like a little bit egregious. it's It's at least a little bit.
01:44:22
Speaker
It's all over the line. It is. I honestly, i really don't see it as that different than stuff that they've done before. So we can agree to ah well we can agree to disagree on that. ah on that part of it.
01:44:35
Speaker
Comments? Stay who's right. As far as far as ah as far as like rule changes and stuff, like I think that is that is valid because like it yeah we can shouldn't yeah it shouldn't take controversial loopholes to get players like this. like If you're Inter-Miami and you have a player like Rodrigo DePaul who wants to play on your team, ah like you should be able to like just do that without it being like this whole ah controversy over whether you broke goals or not.
01:45:05
Speaker
an expanded salary cap, one that's more than it than it is now, one that, like, just it just like laxing the whole system in general so that teams can can do more ambitious stuff like this and not have it... Because, like...
01:45:20
Speaker
I don't like that ah that inner Miami or any other club should be hamstrung from making big, splashy moves because owners don't want to, like, expand the rules and regulations on what you're allowed to do.
01:45:35
Speaker
I think if you're able to build a super team, like, you should be able to do it. I'm not in agreement with that either. So I'm a pro cap guy. I really like the salary cap and I like the way that it really levels the playing field. I'm pro pro the reason that I think that this makes me more mad than it makes you mad is that they're putting finger on the scales and they're fucking with that in a way that is inequitable.
01:45:59
Speaker
And so like, that's just, that just frustrates me because a I'm just just I can't I like you know I fundamentally do enjoy people said the exact same thing when the league did it with Clint and they were not and they were right i agree with them I agree with them like that's not like yeah but but like I said that came with a rule change so it is fundamentally different because it did allow for an opportunity for the rest of the league to catch up to that so you can't like Is this a new method that they've just unlocked where you can say it's the new meta? It's the new meta is let the, let the, let the club that owns the player hold 90% of their bag and then just pay them back with the transfer fee.
01:46:43
Speaker
So, I mean, Atlanta United, I just leaked for you the way to be your own super team right there. Jorge Moss, I'm available for hire.
Impact of High-Profile Signings on MLS Clubs
01:46:52
Speaker
ah All right, let's ah let's hit our last headline and then we can wrap it up here. yeah Speaking of other big name global stars that have been linked to Major League Soccer, LAFC are probably signing Sohn from ah Tottenham Hotspur. Tottenham legend, South Korean international, one of the best EPL attackers of this last era, I would say. I think that's fair to say.
01:47:16
Speaker
ah this is This one is not like as done as the ah Thomas Mueller one. It's up to him, I think. it it's see It sounds like it's decently close to happening.
01:47:28
Speaker
So ah my reaction to that is that I think that this actually would kind of cook for players. I think when i you know when I look at the player, it see it doesn't seem like he's 33, but he doesn't seem like he's declined that much. He's still playing at a very high level in the EPL, which is something that I've been burned on ah with Miguel Almiron earlier this year.
01:47:51
Speaker
But I think Son is a different caliber of player than Almiron. And I think like this is also... a type of signing like with what with what we were talking about with Messi and expanding the profile of LFC as a club or the league as a whole.
01:48:07
Speaker
ah Stone has a absolutely huge, ah massive international fan base, not maybe to the degree of Messi, but he certainly has a a big one in his own right. He's the best Asian player ever. Probably.
01:48:20
Speaker
i don't i think that's probably fairly safe to say. ah So one of i think I think I would be more inclined to think that this would actually move the needle for them on the field a lot more than when they tried this with ah Olivier Giroud. What do you think?
01:48:37
Speaker
I don't know how successful it's going to be. Just I don't know. I mean, I would assume it would be more successful than Giroud, but like, you just I don't know. You just literally never know.
01:48:48
Speaker
yeah um It seems to be kind of the method of LAFC right now. to like have a have a superstar and kind of like build something else around that.
01:49:00
Speaker
But like... I just, I don't know. I don't get it either. I guess it's like name chasing in a way. The same way that I feel about the the the deal that gets done to to to get Mueller to to to, I literally can't speak, to Vancouver.
01:49:20
Speaker
and just like, it's cool. Like, it's cool. But like, I think that competitively speaking, if you're able to spend the same amount of money in the same roster spot on someone who is
01:49:33
Speaker
a lot more electric in their prime. I don't know. Like maybe that's really where this league is going, or at least where I would like to see this league going. So, It'll be sick. i like I like Son a lot. I like Muller a lot.
01:49:45
Speaker
But I just... It doesn't... it's I'm not getting... It's not getting my butt off the seat, if that makes sense. I think name chasing is... ah Isn't necessarily ah bad thing. No, it's not a bad thing. As long it... He literally advocated for it for the Sounders. We said they should sign KDB. Yeah, KDB. Exactly. I would have loved that name. i would have been sick.
01:50:07
Speaker
Yeah. ah So like name chasing in itself isn't a bad isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that it can go one of two ways. You know, it can go the Olivier Giroux, who was the Pirlo Lampard.
01:50:21
Speaker
Gerrard was actually pretty good, wasn't he? He's okay. Pirlo and Lampard were considered busts in MLS. I still remember Piotr Lo standing at the back post, just like watching a free kick goal, just loop in right above his head, not moving. Just like, yeah. All time. stay All time. crazy All time. Hilarious defensive presence during his time on NYCFC.
01:50:43
Speaker
But so it can go that way. NYCFC. They're not getting any big names anymore. No one wants to live in New York anymore. Yeah, apparently they've committed to the the youth movement youth movement, which ah I think is kind of sick, but like maybe like broadly spread casual fans don't necessarily think that that's as cool.
01:51:01
Speaker
But a anyway, like it can also go the other way too, though. I mean, like... There have been a lot of these types of signings that have hit. I mean, LAFC, they've done this a few times, but they did it with ah with Gareth Bale, who, like, I mean, we can say what we want about how he wasn't necessarily, like, he was probably more invested in golfing than he was the kind of playing soccer at that point. He did score, the ah like, what turned out to be the game-winning, like, he yeah, he ah scored the goal in MLS Cup that got them the penalties, and they ended up
01:51:35
Speaker
winning it. So that, I mean, and that's sort of an example of like, if you have an X factor like that on your team, they can be there to play golf and still get you a trophy. If you, if you play the card, your cards, right. With the rest of your team. So I, we, we'd have to see with both ah Thomas Mueller and so on potentially going to LAFC, we'll see like what end of the spectrum that they land on with that.
01:51:58
Speaker
But to me, this one in particular, ah given Stone's age and the level that he's currently been playing at, how logical a fit it seems to be as far as like what his presence would be with the club and the and the city.
01:52:14
Speaker
I would say i would put the odds. I mean, he's also, he's a freaking sick player. Like if you go look up his highlights, like they are obviously like, it's a world-class player.
01:52:25
Speaker
So if he comes here and is motivated, he's fit and he's playing, to that type of caliber that he that he's been in the prem for pretty much his whole career. At the very least, I think if i would if I was an LAFC supporter, I think they're probably they're probably feeling a similar way to like when we were about this as we were when we were talking about like the whole KDB idea, like just hypothetical.
01:52:51
Speaker
Like how we were like, man, that would be... Imagine the vibe if they if they did that. It would be like a shot of energy. They're probably like feeling that way right I mean, he is a 33-year-old player. He had 11 goals and 12 assists last season.
01:53:03
Speaker
Yeah, he's really good. Like that's... I mean, that's not like insane in the Premier League, but that's like... so He had seven goals, 10 assists in the Premier League, and then three goals, one assist in Europa League.
01:53:14
Speaker
I guess one in the EFL Cup. But you know what I'm saying? Like it's... we can all agree that playing Colorado midweek is way harder to do than playing the Premier League. We'll see how Thomas Mueller and Sohn handle that aspect of it. That's always the tell.
Podcast Closing Remarks and Promotions
01:53:31
Speaker
yeah All right, I think we can call it right there. We went an hour 50 on this bad boy, but that's fine. We had a lot to get to. Some good spirited debates going on the last couple weeks. I like it. It's good.
01:53:43
Speaker
It's because we're not face-to-face. I can really just get back to you. But good stuff. Leagues Cup starting on Thursday at Lumen Field versus Cruz Azul.
01:53:54
Speaker
I'll be there. So see you all there. we'll be ah We'll be at it with a post-match live for that either on Thursday night or Friday morning, I guess. Follow me on blue sky for timing on that.
01:54:08
Speaker
And, uh, and then the league's cup content coverage train is, uh, is going to keep right on rolling like comment, subscribe, rate five stars. Follow us on Instagram. Follow us on Tik TOK.
01:54:19
Speaker
Lobbingscorchers.com slash sauce for the hot sauce. Lobbingscorchers.com slash archive for the archive kits. Uh, I think that's it. We, uh, are getting out of here on that.
01:54:29
Speaker
We'll catch next time. And, uh, until then.