Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast. Whether you are a seasoned professional or a first-time fundraiser, we have the advice you need to take your next step toward major gift mastery.
Speaker: I'm your host, Tom Dauber, President of Abundant Vision Philanthropic Consulting.
Speaker: I'm kind of glad you brought up your graduate studies because I've got a whole bunch of questions to ask you about that. So you've done graduate level work, specifically around fundraiser onboarding.
Speaker: What got you interested in that as a research area rather than just a management task? Absolutely. And I'll do a little bit of bragging first with the program. It was the Ohio State University College of Education Human Ecology had a fantastic graduate program, workforce development and adult learning. So again, it was one of those kind got to my I'm like, I need a new challenge, which, yeah, I think. Yeah, couldn't just try to increase my steps or something like that. But that particular area is really doing that topic. We'd all talk about, you know, how do you find good people? How do you keep them turnover? They left just I can't.
Speaker: They were so good. We just put all that time into them. So, again, I think all the things we talk about and really looking at that, there's so much good research about what does a good onboarding look like and even specifically within higher education. But there wasn't anything about how that applies in the advancement or development space at all. There are great things about certain specialized staff members, academic healthcare, faculty. So combined with, again, just best organizational practices for what one boarding looks like. So it really interesting
Speaker: how do you create an opportunity that can be based in research best practices, but still have a very practical applied aspect to it to address? We keep talking about the turnover in the field and fundraisers. What do we know? What can we do about it? So it was really seeing where there was a lot of good studies about it, but that's where there was a gap. What can we look at? What could be possible with with that? Well, that begs the question, what did you discover?
Speaker: Yeah, I think with that, was really taking a look at putting the two together. Again, when we looked at the fundraiser piece, there are two distinct reasons why they leave. And it was how do you look at that? And for early fundraisers, and that can mean early in the career, doesn't just have to be age. It was a sense of I'm not connected to the mission.
Speaker: It's looking that there were different needs. So that was a huge part of where it was looking at that. And I think, how do you address It was, you've got to create something that works. Yes, what I'm talking so far, I've been very looking at from the employee standpoint, but something that works jointly as well for both the employer, the manager and the employee. It's got to work for both having them a sense of belonging, but also the business outcomes, putting those two together. This is a little...
Speaker: An observation that I've made, especially to folks that are new in the profession, is that the best thing for fundraising is to keep the fundraiser around as long as possible.
Speaker: Right. At the same time, organizationally, and I've experienced this as a manager, organizations can only tolerate, for example, raises of a certain percentage. Yeah.
Speaker: But at the same time, there's always another organization that's willing to shell out more than what a practical raise would be to recruit you away. And it feels like it creates this really kind of broken cycle that really motivates fundraisers to job hop too much in ways that aren't good for the donors.
Speaker: But at the same time, the systems that we work you're never going to compete with another organization because you're just budget constrained. Did you learn anything about that system at all in any of your studies?
Speaker: So there are just, I think at some levels it's going to happen. think in any fields with what it is. do think, again, this is a little bit, I'd be interested. I think with fundraising, we know if people are able to hold onto jobs, they're saying we're put longer just with the current economy. think that is happening with fundraisers a little bit more so.
Speaker: When we talk to what fundraising others most often wanted, really did keep them around, there are a couple things that we don't always think about. How do we help them build relationships sort of outside of their team across other parts of the organization? Partially learn how functions, but just to have those other contacts, networks.
Speaker: in other areas, they're not just the development shop or maybe the program shop, but do they also know somebody in the fiscal office? Do they know somebody who, depending where you were, is more of a case manager? So it was creating that sense of, there's the more obvious way it helps them understand the mission, what's happening that much more, but having that much sense of relationship and connection across the organization Got it. That is desired and it has shown it keeps people around longer. That makes sense. That's part of it. So I think that's huge too. Also, and I have my, again, aha with this understanding how decisions are made. You know, there's always the,
Speaker: the clear way. And sometimes that can be the more basic, are they clear with what job expectations are, how that's done, how it's measured, but then there's a larger, if you're trying to get something done, is there formal process? Is there a committee that reviews things? Or is it one, start to learn more observationally, probably get to get a buy-in of some other people by that. So I think that how much you can help people know where the decisions are made and how they're made. And I'll give you the aha of that,
Speaker: Sometimes you just take it for granted. You know that, especially when you've either been at an organization a while or are at a certain level. I had meeting yesterday. have a very talented stewardship donor relations person at MidOhio who we're excited that we have a VISTA staff member who's joined us. And it was one of those I was talking through things.
Speaker: How does she know? wasn't. to we were talking about, of course, she was curious, huge. You hear about a board, but then talking about here are the different committees that make up our board. Where are on each, how, what decisions they make, what are those parts? Again, that was just, it sounds basic, but somebody who's newer to our organization very bright was just that, oh, okay, we've got committees. That's how we plug people in, but this is how they're part of how decisions are made and how I see that play out when I come in here at the organization.
Speaker: it was just an aha for me that there are things like that that you can share. And I think a huge thing, and this is more Sue Frost thing, less research looking at that.
Speaker: I think there's, in this day and age, just creating a place that there's psychological safety. mean, from there, you can go on to the belonging, you could go on to learning, but people feel that when they come into work, you can ask questions, questions,
Speaker: We talk about there's no stupid question, but how do you shape that when you do a one-on-one with somebody? How do you do that? Kind almost setting those as written ground rules when you're having strategy sessions about that.
Speaker: So I can't understand the importance of that. Right. So if I'm an executive director of a small nonprofit and I'm thinking about, you know, is it even possible for me to compete with the nonprofit down the street?
Speaker: I think what I'm hearing from you is the focus isn't necessarily about the money. It's about creating a place they're going to love to be. Is that right? I'd say with that and the ways you can apply it, looking different buckets, if you're the CEO, do they have access to you or the person who will be able to give them the feedback or decisions they made, depending on the scope? That's a huge part of it. Two, are you building a place where they can have exposure and know how other parts of the organization work and who does do that? Yeah.
Speaker: Because we talk about culture philanthropy, but I'll do it on a much more tactical way. If you know the person who's, maybe if you're in a place where the transportation part's important or who works with the school programs, think that piece, if you know what they do, there's that much more. If you're trying to work to fund something for them or they feel that you are there with them, I think so that's just knowing that piece, building that out and having that in place and knowing that it's,
Speaker: It's great if that person does spend, especially not just when they start, but I think even when they've been there for a while, afternoon, if your place has multiple sites, being able to do that, can build something that volunteer experience in. So I think that piece is there too. then I think,
Speaker: Metrics definitely have those places, but I think it's different with what it needs to be for each organization. So how would you approach that too? Yeah, yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think they've adapted that as well too.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. think those are all things that can be done or to think about. And maybe there's always a little bit in that back your head. There is be turnover. It is going to happen. That's right. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: So at OSU, you curated gift officer training for a team of 160 development officers. What what does good onboarding actually look like at that scale versus what most organizations do?
Speaker: Yes, I first appreciate the question. I did do training at that level. I really want to give the credit the onboarding that they put together to other colleagues who really did a great job thinking about how did they look like that across the organization. again, want to... really, if I can say name, I mean, really give credit like Jay Delaney who put a lot of thought into that. But I do think the actual onboarding versus I worked in a training space that was maybe little, people had been there longer, much more skills focused. But I do think we talk about that fundraising is a process, not an event.
Speaker: I think you've got to approach it that way for onboarding. It's a process. It's not an event or a checkoff list. So I think that's a huge part of it. think really building in feedback, not just at the formal points,
Speaker: but doing it with multiple stakeholders. And the best things I learned actually from a HR colleague who's told those you med center having what she called that three way check with whatever. So when you're at that 30, 60 day talking about the fundraiser, but then the manager piece, but then if there's somebody else who either maybe is a department head or a Dean or more leads a program where somebody might be doing that work, wherever that is, almost having that three-way check-in, which is what's working.
Speaker: How are you defining what you're supposed to do? No, I'd see it a little bit differently, but having that be part of things as well as a conversation, think that's very critical as well, putting that in place. think that it's simple, but it can work. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: What's the mindset shift that needs to take place to get away from this view of onboarding being a checklist versus a process?
Speaker: I think with that, it's... I think you've got to view it as a 12 month, really almost rotation with somebody to get there and what that will involve with that. So not just one time.
Speaker: It takes a lot of time, but the manager does have to dig a lot of time into it. I mean, really having that availability, being, I think there's such a beauty to what we kind of, there's formal learning, the non-formal and informal learning, having all that be in there. So I think having more frequency, being available, having it be structured too with what they do get to see. yeah.
Speaker: If there is anything that involves transport, I think this is brilliant, but they people do a drive along and just go if you're picking things up, if you're delivering them. It sounds so simple, but it's like, my gosh, that's so smart. And honestly, people in those roles usually so much more of a sense of clients, customers, neighbors, you want to call them. are doing and seeing on a firsthand level.
Speaker: So I think to be able to do that as well is very important with that. I also think I had the opportunity, as we were saying, to sit in some of those committees. You might not be at the right level to sit in a board meeting, but just to get a flavor of it and what are those pieces. think those can all, again, it's really taking how do you build both Checking in regularly, doing it across couple levels, having very set experiences.
Speaker: And I think often doing them or having them do them with another coworker where possible as well. And then being very clear on what are the skills you're looking for. And with that, again, is there an opportunity to shadow being able to talk things through and create that as well?
Speaker: That's great advice. Those are some really good thoughts. To kind of zero in on the onboarding of the gift officer. Yeah. What's the biggest mistake you see nonprofits make when they bring on a new gift officer?
Speaker: I think. think not allowing for that learning time and that buildup time. And I'm thinking I'll go even earlier. had the podcast. I'm forgetting your name. The woman who talked about her job search within. Oh, right. Yeah.
Speaker: She was great. And I think almost some of the things she had been in the field enough to know. Now, when I see that description, but I'll build on that. When people join an organization that,
Speaker: That A, a development officer can turn things around or do it single-handedly. Yeah. That piece, they're going to save the ship. They're going to do that. I think sometimes there's a misunderstanding that even if they have a lot of connections from other places they work, that that's portable and they come with them.
Speaker: We know that's not the case. There's the ethical part of that, but people just... Even if you're great at what you did, did a wonderful job them somewhere else, wherever you're working next just may not fit with really anything they care about they're giving. That's great. I think, again, some of those misnomers like that, I think as well, are part of that. And again, I think cannot do enough to have people just, they can have the alignment with the admission, but really have places where they can see it firsthand with what's taking place and making sure that can be a regular part of how time is spent doing that as well.
Speaker: I think. And then do think whatever level, think it is important and it can be very structured but having the opportunity just occasionally to hear from the CEO and it can be in variety of ways it could be that they even just once a year come to a team meeting talk about things it could be that they just stop by at a lunch that's all the time we have today but be sure to tune in next week to hear the next part of this exciting conversation now you've enjoyed this podcast please be sure to subscribe and give us a five star rating on your podcast provider I'm your host, Tom Dobbert.
Speaker: Thank you for joining me as we journey together towards major gift mastery on the Abundant Vision Fundraising Podcast. How long should that take? What's the timeline that we should be thinking about in training a new person and getting them adjusted to things?
Speaker: You've really got approach it more in a 12-month cycle. And again, they'll get it under their feet with that. So I think it's that... Throughout that whole time, it doesn't mean they're not working, they're not contributing before that. You can almost do it by quarters, but I think really it's after that first year that you can expect somebody really really knows their portfolio inside out what's been chucked where they can see what's most possible what could happen where the gaps are and they've started to develop plans doing things about that but i really think that piece can just knowing the health of that so looking at it that way building those times each quarter because by then they've had a full
Speaker: What are the different programs? What do they look like each year? What are things when they hit their penultimate, which might be the busiest fundraising seasons, what that looks like? So both to learn it, but with that, they can also going into that second year, really know how could this be differently? How could, where the opportunities we're missing? What can we build on with with that as well?
Speaker: When it, when it goes wrong, the onboarding, when it, when the organization isn't getting it right, what does that timeline usually look like? Yeah, and I think, listen, sometimes things just aren't, it just doesn't work.
Speaker: It's always, because again, the manager's got to do the rest of their job or the CEO does what they're looking for. So sometimes it's just, that happens too. So it's not always an organizational fault or an individual fault. When it doesn't, I think when they're,
Speaker: not clear agreed to expectations with how are we defining success for this role, but also for this organization.
Speaker: know, so we need cash now or we're trying to do some long term. So just that agreement on that with what that looks like. I think that's a huge part of it. And this is more the classic with anything not when people aren't provided clear feedback or knowing how things are assessed or done.
Speaker: I think the other piece where can't go wrong is maybe not always understanding what's guiding people's experiences from where they were before. And again, they've got to come in, they've got to do the job. But again, an example, in my experiences, places I've been generally coaching was part of the culture. And it was a word people use very loosely in a good way, like, hey, we're going to sit down, we're going to this great coaching opportunity. again great example with somebody else worked within another organization said that to new employee and they just froze because coaching usually meant you're this is the first step to out so again it's just what are those past experiences and kind of that's more basic but just realizing how is that shaped where they even what does it mean but it was was like oh that's so valid so So I think it's true. mean, someone recently was talking about a 360 degree review and I'm familiar with some situations where those have been kind of the step before the exit. And it was just so funny to me because in this particular context, it was not that.
Speaker: But yeah, different organizations do. They handle things differently. Yeah, yes. So I think those are part of it. And I, yeah. I also think sometimes there's, you can know it's really but think if you're the professional sitting in that, or sometimes the manager and the answer yourself is like, okay, I'm just going dig deeper. It's going to work out.
Speaker: It probably, it's just, it's not there. Yeah, I get that. So how do you measure whether onboarding actually worked six months or a year later?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's where it's important, both the quantitative and the qualitative with that and having those regular points at the 30, 60, 90 with that. I think that happens with there needs to be, again, conversations with the manager or themselves with doing that.
Speaker: I think it's also where you can see they can start to make that connection between who might be a funder and being able to do that in an outward way. It sounds so simple, but I think that is a huge part. And again, providing opportunities for people to shadow, see that, or be observed in a way that is not awkward for the donor, but it's also known that it's part of what everyone does there just to learn that piece. I think that's a huge part.
Speaker: And again, we do have, I think it's also, we have depending on what the job is, again, are they being successful in the parts we can't control as a fundraiser? They might've gotten no's, but are they getting a meeting are they doing everything they can to take those steps? So how successful are they being the parts that you can control with fundering and could expect at three months in, six months in with that? Do they?
Speaker: that piece, how well do they know their portfolio? Can they just talk to what I'm going to do with this person? Why? And again, we have a responsibility organizations or people. Are we creating? Are we talking that through with them? Are we doing that as a group? So so I guess the more basic would just be how well can they really do they know the organization?
Speaker: and this is more subjective but do they light up when they talk about yeah do they want to be there how much how well are they doing in the parts we control with fundraisers again making that outreach attempting to get the meetings taking those meetings starting the conversations with that piece also looking back again how well can they talk to here's what i'm going to do next and why
