Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to What IT Takes to Lead.
Speaker: I'm your host, Matt Detweiler, and our guest today is Teresa Williams from Insights Leadership Coaching and HR Consulting.
Speaker: Teresa was also with publisher McGraw-Hill for over 31 years, where she held the title of Vice President of Human Resources.
Speaker: Welcome, Teresa.
Speaker: Hey, Matt, thanks for having me.
Speaker: Glad to have you here.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: You know, 31 years is a long time with one company.
Speaker: I don't know if I have that many years left in my life to achieve that with my current company.
Speaker: What kept you with McGraw-Hill for 31 years?
Speaker: It's a great first question, Matt.
Speaker: And I have to tell you, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker: I get this question all the time.
Speaker: all the time.
Speaker: And it's so it's really funny too, because I never intended to go into HR.
Speaker: I really just needed a job.
Speaker: So for me to end up, you know, wind my way to one place for 31 years was just really, it's kind of crazy.
Speaker: But right on a school, same story you've probably heard before, right on a school, small town in Ohio, there were not many opportunities.
Speaker: you know, at that time, and I really didn't want to relocate then.
Speaker: So I ended up taking an open position, larger employer, a few towns away.
Speaker: And it ended up, I worked for the federal government.
Speaker: It was like the first big job, it required a security clearance, which was a crazy experience in and of itself.
Speaker: That'll be for another time.
Speaker: And it was a great opportunity for me to get some real work experience.
Speaker: It just so happened it was entry level in HR.
Speaker: So I got involved in a bunch of projects there, learned a ton.
Speaker: Fast forward, moved to Columbus and started working as an HR assistant in Columbus at my last company and never looked back.
Speaker: I had every role in HR there except the chief human resources officer.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Crazy.
Speaker: That is crazy.
Speaker: I love everybody's origin story.
Speaker: But anyway, we're on LinkedIn a lot.
Speaker: There's things are different currently with kind of the landscape of hiring, how it's changed.
Speaker: Now, job posts, if you look out there, there's some that have two, 300 people that have applied.
Speaker: What are some strategies that people can use to cut through that noise?
Speaker: I've made a pivot leaving the company where I was for 31 years.
Speaker: And now I'm coaching leadership coaching.
Speaker: And one of the things my clients ask me all the time, how do you do this?
Speaker: Like, how do you differentiate yourself?
Speaker: How can I get to the top of that, that resume pile when recruiters are reviewing resumes and
Speaker: So what I did, Matt, is put together just a document that I use with my clients.
Speaker: And it's kind of, I wouldn't say it's prescriptive, but it's a tool, right, that I can share with them.
Speaker: So if you'll humor me, I can take you and the listeners through this.
Speaker: It's going to sound a little bit tactical, right?
Speaker: But hopefully there'll be something there that each one of us can take away.
Speaker: But I look at it from a sort of a three pronged approach and the document itself and the things I put together, I took that from my last role.
Speaker: I was responsible for HR partnerships that included software engineering, product and program management.
Speaker: user experience QA, and I have the great fortune of working with two great tech recruiters.
Speaker: Shout out to Andrea Quillett and Anant Jane.
Speaker: But my perspective on the differentiating is around sort of these three pillars that I'll explain.
Speaker: It's really around planning, taking action, and then sustaining.
Speaker: And it's certainly no guarantee of success, but these are my five cents, two cents.
Speaker: Around planning, LinkedIn, and you know, hear a lot about LinkedIn and it's such a valuable tool, but it really truly is your friend.
Speaker: But in order to capitalize on LinkedIn, you want to go in and go deep and really understand the benefits that are there to each of us.
Speaker: You should also think about being a very strategic job seeker.
Speaker: And that means that not every job is for you, right?
Speaker: So instead of applying to those jobs where maybe you're not a fit, look where your fit is about 70% to 100%.
Speaker: And then when you get to those positions, you can consider what makes that a great fit for you.
Speaker: Okay, so you want to take note of that and then start looking at employers that have similar types of positions and then start to network with mid-level employees and then HRT members via LinkedIn.
Speaker: And then you're going to start building your personal brand in that planning stage.
Speaker: Use chat GPT if you need some help with content, right, to start building your story.
Speaker: What do you think?
Speaker: Personal brand is a term that I struggle with because it's a mixture of slimeball marketing and selling yourself.
Speaker: And I won't go into detail, but it comes across as so inauthentic.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I do a lot of research on this because I want to know, like, what's a personal brand?
Speaker: And one of the guys I follow on LinkedIn, Chris Lapping, he put out a newsletter the other day that said,
Speaker: Don't think about it as marketing or a personal brand.
Speaker: Go around and ask the people in your life what they love you for.
Speaker: Ask the people at work, what do you love me for?
Speaker: What am I good at?
Speaker: I think that's a really hard question to ask somebody, especially your spouse.
Speaker: Mine would probably say doing the dishes.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But it brought up a good point because self-awareness, that's a very huge thing for me.
Speaker: As a leader, being aware of who you are, what you're doing is great, but there's a whole bunch of things that you don't see.
Speaker: And in terms of personal branding, I could go to the people that I serve in the organization and say, hey, what are your favorite parts about what I do?
Speaker: What am I good at?
Speaker: And that's not even hard feedback.
Speaker: That's not asking what I'm not good at.
Speaker: That's just, hey, what do you appreciate me for?
Speaker: And I'd imagine for most people, you'd hear a lot of things that make sense, but then you'd hear a lot of things that you've never, maybe it's your emotional intelligence.
Speaker: Maybe it's how you're kind and you, you say thank you and people appreciate that.
Speaker: So yeah, as far as personal brand as an HR person, what stands out about a personal brand to you when you're looking at candidates?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So to me, I think, and you're spot on, by the way, with all of those comments.
Speaker: And I always think it's a great idea to gather feedback anytime, you know, you're thinking about positioning yourself, whether it's a promotion or whether it's for a new position, whatever the case might be.
Speaker: But I think when I when I think about this from the perspective of being a candidate and putting myself out there, I'm thinking about what is going to catch the attention of the recruiter or the hiring manager when they glance at your resume.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So that's in this next section about taking action.
Speaker: So and this might sound a little strange, but you also want to have your resume tweaked.
Speaker: and that messaging at the top or at the beginning tweet for those positions that you have that 70% to 100% fit.
Speaker: And so it's not so much about all of the things that I'm good at this, I can do that, or the brand, external brand, as much as it's about the skills and the experiences that you have that you want to rise to the top.
Speaker: Does that make sense though?
Speaker: Because there is a difference between the two things.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker: It's funny looking at this now, not really looking for a job right now, but I keep my eye on this market.
Speaker: I'm fascinated by it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it really strikes me as I've done a little bit of marketing in some previous IT roles in small shops where we had to wear many hats.
Speaker: And back in the day, companies had to be really cognizant of what their their
Speaker: words were that they were using on their website search engine marketing or search engine search engine optimization and it almost feels like people are doing that now with resumes that humans are reading you're not it's not like you're sending a cover letter that that has all these nice things in it it's really the resume has to hit those points in an efficient way is that kind of what you're looking at
Speaker: That's exactly it.
Speaker: That's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker: And I think there are some tools that various companies use to like screen resumes, right?
Speaker: Digitally and all of that, but yeah, it ATS.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, but it's still, there's still going to be someone looking at that filter that goes through.
Speaker: And I know with at least the recruiters I'm familiar with, they use LinkedIn.
Speaker: to source candidates all the time.
Speaker: And they are searching on words, right?
Speaker: Searching on experiences, going into the networks, hiring managers are doing the same thing.
Speaker: And you see that all the time.
Speaker: Hey, I have this opening or that opening.
Speaker: And a lot of times that's where a significant amount of candidates are going to come through as part of the pipeline, not the only pipeline, but part of the pipeline.
Speaker: So I want you to answer the next question with either myth or truth.
Speaker: Oh, gosh.
Speaker: You can only pick one.
Speaker: And then we can talk about it.
Speaker: Let's do it.
Speaker: So the thing that I've heard out there is 70% of all jobs aren't posted.
Speaker: Myth or truth?
Speaker: Myth.
Speaker: Myth.
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You want to elaborate on that one?
Speaker: Because I'm sure you've heard that before.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I would say in my experiences, there were...
Speaker: In my experiences, the majority of our positions were always posted.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now it could be different in other organizations.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's why I read too, as somebody who's done hiring, as soon as I get that okay to post that job, I already had the description written.
Speaker: I'm posting it as fast as I can.
Speaker: It's like, go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: think that's a catchy thing to say and i wonder if the truth behind that is more of the fact that if you're building a relationship with somebody in an industry you want to work in before something comes up they're going to think of you and reach out i'm sure that happens because we all have our networks and all of that um but i i think it would be important
Speaker: to note that if you want to do that or you're thinking of doing that, I think you should still be reviewing that person or those people against the applicant flow because you want to make sure that you are casting your net wide and that you're getting the best candidate for that role, but also that those candidates have the right
Speaker: they find the right role for them.
Speaker: It's really a combination and not every role would be the right fit for that person in your network.
Speaker: So there's a lot of things that would go into that.
Speaker: I think networking is certainly a big part of what we all do.
Speaker: And that's what LinkedIn is a lot of.
Speaker: But yeah, I don't think I would be hesitant to only go to one person and say that's my candidate without thinking more broadly about it.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: The best advice about building a LinkedIn profile is sort of like planting a tree.
Speaker: The best time to do it is 10 years ago.
Speaker: And the next best time is now.
Speaker: I use this messaging a lot to the people that I lead, but building a network is the most
Speaker: satisfying thing career-wise, but it's also the most satisfying thing in a personal standpoint.
Speaker: I know at least for me in the past two to three years, I really made a point and I post like crazy on LinkedIn.
Speaker: I don't know if you read all the stuff that I put out there.
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: I try.
Speaker: I really just like to think out loud and then I like to take what's in my head and say, okay, is this valuable to somebody else?
Speaker: Can I turn this into a post?
Speaker: Really, the value of a network is in having a common bond with people that do the same thing that you do.
Speaker: The other value is being able to talk to people that you would never talk.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So, for example, I started this podcast because I
Speaker: I really wanted to explore leadership concepts.
Speaker: I wanted to help people that have never been leaders before figure out the puzzle pieces they need to build a picture of leadership.
Speaker: And because of that, I've kind of forced myself to reach out to more CIOs, VPs of HR, coaches, all sorts of other people.
Speaker: And it's really quite amazing how
Speaker: The mentor that I have that I'm working with for this show, when we originally started talking about the concept, he said, well, who's going to be on your show?
Speaker: What companies are they from?
Speaker: And I had a list of five to 10 people I wanted to interview.
Speaker: And he said, I don't know a single one of those companies.
Speaker: I don't know what they do.
Speaker: And some of them were actually larger tech companies.
Speaker: I'll give him a pass on that one.
Speaker: But he said...
Speaker: What are you doing with like the Teslas and the Netflix and all this?
Speaker: And I said, well, you know, I'm going to build up to that kind of thing.
Speaker: He said, no.
Speaker: He said, you don't understand.
Speaker: Nobody is asking any of these people questions.
Speaker: People want to talk about themselves.
Speaker: People want to talk about what they do.
Speaker: People actually love to help people.
Speaker: People love to be mentors.
Speaker: And what I found is you can't just go out and ask somebody, hey, you know, you want to be on my podcast?
Speaker: Like that's a little silly.
Speaker: But if you reach out and start a relationship, especially if they're posting a lot of things on LinkedIn, it's really easy to just to jump in and join the conversation.
Speaker: And maybe after a few posts, after a week or so, then start asking questions in their posts and see if you can get them to respond.
Speaker: I've had a lot of...
Speaker: noteworthy authors and CIOs who I would never, I probably would never even be in the same room as these people, but they've responded to things that I've posted.
Speaker: And it's a nice, it's a nice dopamine reward when somebody recognizes you like that.
Speaker: But even one question, even if it's a peer at another company, even one question that can unlock a door for you is worth the price of admission.
Speaker: Totally.
Speaker: It's interesting too, because I think there's a little bit of, um,
Speaker: you know, nervousness, right?
Speaker: About putting yourself out there and starting to engage like you just described, where there could be what hundreds of people seeing your comments, seeing your perspective.
Speaker: And when I have others or my clients ask me, I'm afraid, why should I put myself out there?
Speaker: And I say, why not?
Speaker: So you have to start somewhere.
Speaker: Maybe you start with like
Speaker: a safer spot right and then you can work your way up but to this point this is exactly with the um going back to the the candidate and differentiating one of the things i talk to my clients all the time about is being active on linkedin but also what you just described post comment engage with people that you don't know because you are widening your network
Speaker: And it is a great way to learn about varying perspectives.
Speaker: And that's what makes all of us better, I think, is the more we learn and the more we take in.
Speaker: Networking online is a different experience than networking in person.
Speaker: I can network with anybody.
Speaker: You can meet Bill Gates' profile and I'll find a way to weasel in there and get him to answer a question.
Speaker: But you put me in a networking event and it's hit or miss.
Speaker: If I'm feeling chatty that day, I'll be able to interact with some people.
Speaker: But there's times where you freeze when you're in a room full of people.
Speaker: I really think that with LinkedIn, there's such a low barrier of entry, especially if people are posting and want to be seen and talk.
Speaker: The things that I post up there, I love when people reach out and ask questions.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: If I can help somebody, that's what it's all about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I really do think networking is such a vital thing.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: And I think there's a lot to be said with what you were describing too around getting ahead of
Speaker: forming relationships right before you actually need that relationship.
Speaker: And it's certainly that's not the only reason, you know, you, you do that, but when you're in a position or if you're in a position where you do need to sort of tap into your network, it's not a surprise.
Speaker: They do know of you at that point because you've been engaging in some way and it is safer than being in a room where you're networking right at a conference or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And what I found that's really successful is once you build some sort of relationship with somebody or you have a conversation and you get the conversation going, follow it up with the Zoom meeting.
Speaker: Say, hey, I'd really like to explore some of this stuff with you a little bit more.
Speaker: Do you have a half hour that we can just chat on Zoom and get to know each other?
Speaker: And some of those conversations, there's been CEOs that I've had two or three messages back and forth with.
Speaker: And then I said, Hey, you're really interesting.
Speaker: Would you be available for a half hour?
Speaker: And they're like, yeah, sure.
Speaker: Here's my schedule.
Speaker: Go ahead and book time.
Speaker: And one of the, one of these CEOs that I've been talking to, I spent 30 minutes with him and it was a life changing experience.
Speaker: The advice that he gave me, the things that he said, and we didn't really have an agenda.
Speaker: It was just, Hey, we get along, let's chat.
Speaker: Tell me about your business.
Speaker: I mean, how you got started.
Speaker: And I think leading with curiosity is really the secret sauce.
Speaker: When you show interest in somebody else, they're going to be appreciative of what you have to say.
Speaker: And there'll be jerks out there.
Speaker: There's for every five people that you talk to, one of them will probably tell you where to go.
Speaker: But that's fine.
Speaker: You know, that that's that's normal.
Speaker: But like I said, too, I think reaching out to people who are peers, who are receptive to a conversation online is also a great thing, too.
Speaker: That's a lot less threatening when you can go and chat and say, hey, here's what we're doing at our job.
Speaker: What are you doing?
Speaker: What have you guys, especially in IT, what sorts of technologies have you worked with?
Speaker: And usually there's a mutually beneficial exchange of here's what I've done.
Speaker: Here's what you've done.
Speaker: Oh, that sounds great.
Speaker: Let me go check that out.
Speaker: It's a great way to just build a connection with somebody.
Speaker: A lot of the people that are peers, if they're local, they might even be friend material because you'll have plenty to talk about when you hang out.
Speaker: A lot in common.
Speaker: A lot in common.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, you know, you said a couple of magic words there too, Matt, around once you've engaged, right, and you've gone back and forth a bit, and then you can ask for
Speaker: the zoom, right?
Speaker: Because, and I think that's critical because there, I know for at least for myself, I've had people that want to link to me and then it's, Hey, let's get on a zoom.
Speaker: And that feels a little weird.
Speaker: You want to invest a little bit in getting to know that person and them getting to know you, and then you take it, you know, to that next, next step.
Speaker: the method of interaction that you have is important.
Speaker: If you find yourself having, I don't want to say personal conversations, that sounds a little weird on LinkedIn, but if you find yourself engaging in humor with this person and they're kind of laughing virtually back and forth and you build a little bit of a rapport, it's a lot easier of a transition because you already gained their acceptance, if you will.
Speaker: Completely agree with that.
Speaker: All the things you're describing really, it's spot on with what, how I was talking about teeing things up for a job search.
Speaker: And by the way, I agree.
Speaker: I think we all should have an updated resume.
Speaker: That's just my two cents.
Speaker: Well, you know, and I'm sorry, we're diverging a lot from your list.
Speaker: So I'll say this piece and then we can go back, but.
Speaker: What I found both personally myself and in a leadership capacity is people generally aren't good at collecting their wins.
Speaker: So when you've gotten through a big project, when you've done something special, that's something you should have a list somewhere.
Speaker: And if your company does annual reviews, my company currently doesn't, we do weekly one-on-ones instead.
Speaker: But if you're in a company that does an annual review,
Speaker: The one thing that I always tried to do whenever I went to a review is I had my list of wins.
Speaker: If there were any metrics, for example, help desk tickets or something like that, that I could point at, uh, if there were any things that I could show improvement, what did I learn over the year?
Speaker: And I show up at a yearly review with a two or three page document.
Speaker: And then it's, Hey, here is, here's everything.
Speaker: So if, if you're going to give me negative feedback, well, at least read this first, the resume.
Speaker: can be a place for collecting wins.
Speaker: And it doesn't have to be, I think everybody thinks of a resume as like this thing that they write and they put in a drawer somewhere.
Speaker: But it really should be a living document.
Speaker: You can collect all your wins there.
Speaker: And then, like you said, when you're going to apply for a position, looking at the things that they're looking for, if you have a win in one of those columns, well, now you know what to put on there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that goes in that highlight reel at that sort of that intro that we were talking about it.
Speaker: And I think you're spot on.
Speaker: If I wait for the year or six months, I am not going to remember all of the things I accomplished.
Speaker: And so you want to make sure you have a chance to reflect and really sort of congratulate yourself around those successes that we sometimes tend to forget.
Speaker: And the manager may not be keeping up with all of those either.
Speaker: You come together with the two lists and it's a great way to reflect.
Speaker: And absolutely, then you can refresh and tweak the resume based on those wins and talk about that in the connection to the position that you're looking into, right?
Speaker: So it all kind of goes together.
Speaker: Imposter syndrome screams very loudly for most people.
Speaker: One of my taglines is I'd like to hire for imposter syndrome because I think the people that have it the worst are generally overachievers and they just don't really know how good they are.
Speaker: But I think a lot of times too, especially if you've been in the same position for a while, the things that you do that are superhuman just appear normal.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And not taking time to really digest what you do.
Speaker: You're going to feel like an imposter because, oh, yeah, I lead people with emotional intelligence and we grow people and we grow people out of the department.
Speaker: But all of that stuff is just things that, hey, this is what I do.
Speaker: It's not special.
Speaker: Everybody can do this.
Speaker: But when you really talk to people.
Speaker: It's not that normal.
Speaker: It's a lot of jobs.
Speaker: People just stay where they are.
Speaker: They're not actively growing.
Speaker: So it's always good to collect your wins somewhere.
Speaker: It's so true.
Speaker: And you think about when you do want to have a career conversation or when your leader wants to talk to you about career aspirations, that's a great resource to have right there at your fingertips about the accomplishments that you've made.
Speaker: That's a very valid point.
Speaker: It's a way of time travel.
Speaker: Past you is always smarter than future you, so document everything.
Speaker: Isn't it funny how that works?
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I know you have your three points here, and I want to make sure we get to all of them.
Speaker: In terms of the list so far, the first one was planning that we covered.
Speaker: The second one you said was action.
Speaker: What's action about?
Speaker: Yeah, taking action.
Speaker: It's really just about all the things that we've just been talking about.
Speaker: Keeping your resume up to date.
Speaker: Does it accurately reflect your experiences that you want to present to that employer?
Speaker: That key message that we mentioned, really just about the LinkedIn profile, mirroring or, you know, using that sort of kickoff statement, summary statement in your LinkedIn profile as well.
Speaker: And then tweaking that message as you go.
Speaker: Keep your resume under two pages.
Speaker: Cover letters are out.
Speaker: You don't need to worry about cover letters any longer.
Speaker: Some people I think may think they're so crucial, but for the most part, I don't think you should spend your time there.
Speaker: Um, make sure you follow the expectations of the company and how they want you to apply for a position.
Speaker: Uh, and then also, and this was a tip that we had with our ATS is around, if you apply for a role, there's usually a spot there where you can say, notify me when another position comes up that matches my experience or background.
Speaker: Click on that because then you're going to get notified, right?
Speaker: Anytime openings come from that company.
Speaker: Try to find the hiring manager on LinkedIn.
Speaker: If you can use your direct contacts or your contacts of contact at that company and make a connection.
Speaker: So one of the things we already talked about, and then the sustained part was around posting on LinkedIn regularly.
Speaker: Use your experiences to build your authority and commenting on or liking posts.
Speaker: Join any of the relevant professional sites or groups that you can get involved in.
Speaker: And then in a month from the time you start all on that, just keep looking at which industries, what domains are out there that interest me and just keep it like it's a lasting focus.
Speaker: And hopefully that's going to lead you to that dream job or the next thing that's really critical for your next step in your career.
Speaker: The last thing I would close with on this though too is when you do get contacted by a recruiter, be prepared.
Speaker: Have a plan of what is it you want to tell that recruiter.
Speaker: One of the things when you get 30 minutes with a recruiter, what are those key experiences you really want them to know before they hang up the phone?
Speaker: That's crucial.
Speaker: One of the things that I heard that I'm trying to teach myself, I've heard it recently,
Speaker: is as humans, we tend to have this habit of reinventing the wheel every time.
Speaker: For example, we'll use your example there.
Speaker: So every time a recruiter calls, I'm thinking about, okay, how do I have to approach this person?
Speaker: What do they need?
Speaker: What do I say about myself?
Speaker: And the post that I read said, and that takes an enormous amount of effort to recreate every single time.
Speaker: And they were talking about processes and companies and how like when you begin a project, you can't start from building the project part of it every single time.
Speaker: You should have a process.
Speaker: And the idea of the process was in this example,
Speaker: You would have a list of steps that you would take, and every time a recruiter calls you, you would step through that process.
Speaker: And maybe not all of the things that you wrote down apply, but you're not wasting that cognitive effort on what am I going to say to this person.
Speaker: No, it's...
Speaker: Hi, my name is Matt Detweiler.
Speaker: I'm director of IT operations.
Speaker: I lead a team of ex-people.
Speaker: And this is the process that you can go through so that when it comes to personal questions, the deeper questions, you're ready.
Speaker: You're not wasting time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I talk a lot about that actually my coaching and what I reference it as building muscle memory.
Speaker: And it's the same thing.
Speaker: Like in this situation, these are the key things that I want to put out there.
Speaker: And then you just, you do it to where you don't want to sound to like you rehearsed, but, but it's like the magic that you can just tap into and pull it out when you need it.
Speaker: It's that elevator pitch.
Speaker: There should be different ones.
Speaker: You should have something prepared if you're talking to a screener or an HR person.
Speaker: You should have one if you're talking to a recruiter.
Speaker: You should have one if you're talking to somebody that's technical in the role that you're looking for.
Speaker: It should be a quick, high level, hey, this is me.
Speaker: Here's what makes me special.
Speaker: Here's my value.
Speaker: You're spot on with differentiating that message from
Speaker: and basing it on the individual as you're going through your interviews and the critical pieces that individual needs to hear in each of those steps or gates.
Speaker: Yeah, because people have a limited attention span.
Speaker: And the thing that I try to teach people often is the higher up you go in an organization, you may get a sentence before people tune out if you're talking to a chief.
Speaker: So it's really, you have to make sure that your words
Speaker: Your important words are in bold as you speak.
Speaker: Say things in headlines rather than paragraphs.
Speaker: And as you move up, be more brief.
Speaker: Don't be afraid of, especially in IT, don't be afraid of leaving out technical details because they're going to ask you.
Speaker: They will.
Speaker: If they need to get deeper.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The crisper and clearer you can be, obviously, and you're so right, you know, depending on the level of the individual you're speaking to, you may not have any time for that second or third or fourth sentence to sort of tell your story.
Speaker: The other thing people leave out in thinking back to the times where I've hired people
Speaker: The biggest thing is fear.
Speaker: And number one, if you're going to be interviewing with anybody, the first thing that you have to do is cast out any fear that's there.
Speaker: That's going to lose you.
Speaker: That's that may be the only thing that's going to lose you.
Speaker: The job is how you come off.
Speaker: Most people hire.
Speaker: Most people want to know that the person they're hiring is somebody that they could go out to lunch with.
Speaker: You know, they and people that are scared just throw off that stranger vibe.
Speaker: They do.
Speaker: I mean, it's like that, the spidey sense thing, right?
Speaker: Like you, you usually know, and even if you're on the phone, when you're talking with a candidate, you can read that individual.
Speaker: Usually you could be, sometimes you're not, not on or not spot on, but yeah, you can, it's there and building that confidence and the confidence that you know, that you can do the job it is that they're talking to you about and not let the fear get in the way of that.
Speaker: a lot of interviews that I've done.
Speaker: I usually try really hard in the beginning of that interview just to calm people down.
Speaker: Tell me how's the day?
Speaker: How are things out there?
Speaker: How's the weather?
Speaker: Whatever I can do to break that fear out of there is important.
Speaker: That should be like the first five minutes of every interview, I think.
Speaker: It should be like icebreaker question time.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: Who's your favorite TV robot?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I did want to go back to your action step.
Speaker: And if people, let's say somebody wants to work for Microsoft, if they're targeting that company, obviously they can pay attention to the job boards and subscribe and things like that.
Speaker: But what are your thoughts about people reaching out directly to hiring teams and what's the proper protocol for that?
Speaker: From my perspective, it's truly about
Speaker: using your contacts of contacts to find out who those people are, right?
Speaker: Using LinkedIn, going to that employer and digging and digging and digging, you can do that.
Speaker: And to me, you absolutely, there's no question if you can find those people, absolutely reach out directly.
Speaker: And again, it's making sure you're using the, whatever the messaging is you're using to go to that person,
Speaker: Be really crisp and clear about what that is and how you're introducing yourself, but totally acceptable.
Speaker: The recruiter, the hiring manager, the HR partner, if you can dig into that individual, totally acceptable to do that.
Speaker: They may not always respond, but it's okay to be the one reaching out.
Speaker: And is there value, let's say there's no job posted and somebody just wanted to get their name out there with a company and show up on the radar.
Speaker: Is there a magical like pool of resumes that HR people keep or is it, hey, if we didn't post it, don't bother us?
Speaker: I think that's more for the, in the recruiter area.
Speaker: If you were reaching out to a recruiter to plant the seed, hey, I'm starting to look.
Speaker: I'm an experienced software engineer, 10 years of blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: I think that's totally fine.
Speaker: I don't think for a hiring manager, I think it's probably less of a thing now where they have like the stash of resumes, at least just from the lens that I'm accustomed.
Speaker: Now I would say this though, let's say that you've interviewed five really strong candidates.
Speaker: And it's down to two people and you hire one of those two.
Speaker: That's not to say that the hiring manager may say to the recruiter, this person was really great.
Speaker: As you're looking for candidates, here's my feedback on this person.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: I do want to make sure the theme of our show is trying to help people that are looking to break into a leadership role.
Speaker: And a lot of times I think that can be difficult if you're not growing up into it within the organization.
Speaker: So for the folks that are looking to break into their first role, are there any strategies that you can share?
Speaker: Number one, maybe just moving up in an organization, but number two,
Speaker: Let's say I'm a help desk person and I want to become a help desk administrator somewhere or a team lead.
Speaker: How, what are some strategies for people to make that transition?
Speaker: The first thing that comes to mind as I'm thinking about career and going into a leadership role, I always think about how I look at those roles in the organization.
Speaker: And I always used to think about looking up, looking down in some cases, and then across, depending on what it is I want to do.
Speaker: And as far as being a leader, I may not aspire to be a leader within the line of sight I'm in currently.
Speaker: So I think casts your net in a wider way.
Speaker: And then I would just give you my two cents on my experiences, which may not be for everyone.
Speaker: Of course, I raised my hand for everything.
Speaker: probably to my detriment a bit in my own wellbeing, but I never said no, I took on everything.
Speaker: I didn't know a stranger.
Speaker: And I say that not because I talked a lot, but I would strike up conversations and really actively listen and then take that information as a learning experience, right?
Speaker: I was probably naive when I started doing this,
Speaker: but when it ended up happening is then people would remember me because of those one-off conversations or because of the questions i asked in different settings and so then when a project came up and and somebody needed to be tapped to do it there i would be raising my hand to say pick me let's do this i have the experience um i also think in meetings a lot of times
Speaker: it's hard to maybe jump into conversation or we hold ourselves back in certain ways.
Speaker: And I was never one to talk just to be, just to hear myself talk, because that's a pet peeve of mine.
Speaker: But when you really have something thoughtful that adds value,
Speaker: Make sure you step into it.
Speaker: Take a little bit of a risk and then do everything with purpose.
Speaker: Do your homework.
Speaker: Take those risks after you've thought through what those risks are and you're willing to do it.
Speaker: And then go all in when you're a team member or when you're the team lead.
Speaker: And then I also would, I say this a lot, we're all leaders regardless of our title.
Speaker: And so build that confidence in that way.
Speaker: And I think those are just some of the how you might think about doing things in order to grow into those leadership types of positions.
Speaker: And I'm hearing curiosity again in your comment.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker: Such a huge thing.
Speaker: And even this is a tip for people that maybe aren't going anywhere in an organization, especially now that a lot of us are remote.
Speaker: It's difficult to build those random relationships in the company.
Speaker: And there's a lot of value in that.
Speaker: utilizing a messaging app, maybe can we have coffee for 10 minutes or something?
Speaker: I'd like to ask you some things.
Speaker: And really stepping into the idea of learning about what other people do and showing interest in their work.
Speaker: Because a lot of times jobs are thankless.
Speaker: People aren't asking us, hey, what do you do?
Speaker: How did you do that?
Speaker: How did you learn what you wanted to learn?
Speaker: And I think that's also a really great way to set up a mentoring relationship.
Speaker: Especially if you're on the help desk in a large organization and you know somebody on the networking team, you know, and that's where you want to go.
Speaker: Asking those sort of questions, trying to get into the conversation and be curious and let them know that you're curious.
Speaker: Because a lot of times that's a great way to...
Speaker: When there is an opening in that department, they say, well, hey, you know, Matt's been asking about this for a while.
Speaker: Why don't we, why don't we talk to him and see if he wants to move up?
Speaker: And a lot of times people love that when they can promote from within, when they can be the mentor and help somebody grow.
Speaker: It's, it's more fulfilling for the person that's helping than the person who's receiving.
Speaker: People tend to want to talk about what they do and talk about themselves.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so if you listen and you reach out, whether that's just pinging them, like you said about anything.
Speaker: And I know I remember, and this is going way back and this is just me being so high control, but I used to have the list of up, down and across of people that I didn't know that I wanted to get to know.
Speaker: Now I didn't just work that list all the time.
Speaker: When the opportunity was there, I would take the time.
Speaker: to, to reach out and to start making connections with some of those key people that I knew I could learn from.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I liken it to almost a 3d word chart.
Speaker: And it's a concept that I've tried to think about with my folks is we're the team I lead.
Speaker: We're a business systems team.
Speaker: We're maintaining the applications for the company, the internal applications, but it requires a lot of cross team collaboration and getting to know people.
Speaker: And the one thing that I try to foster with my group is you should have a go-to person with every single department in the company.
Speaker: And it doesn't have to be somebody high up.
Speaker: If you're in a company where there's manufacturing and there's somebody out on the shop floor, it's really easy to start a relationship with those people and get on a conversational basis.
Speaker: And maybe the only thing you get from that is, hey, I'm having this problem.
Speaker: Who in your team can I go to?
Speaker: But it can also lead to...
Speaker: conversations where now you've built a level of trust with people and they're comfortable coming to you for help.
Speaker: That's again, that's just, those are wise words, Matt.
Speaker: You know, and the other thing I would say to that, we think a lot, or I think in general, we think a lot about that external network, but we really also should be thinking about the internal network, right?
Speaker: Who are those people that we really want in our network?
Speaker: And you described the perfect scenario.
Speaker: If you need someone for something specific, who's my go to for that?
Speaker: And then you want to be a go to for others as well.
Speaker: And it's that reciprocal kind of relationship that you're building.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We, in the recent past, our initial CEO, she retired and our new CEO took over.
Speaker: But one of the things that I really admired about our old CEO was she was just a for the people person.
Speaker: If you ran into her in the hallway, she would stop.
Speaker: She loved the new people that Paul's like, Hey, how do you like this company?
Speaker: Is there anything we need to fix?
Speaker: But she took the time to get to know each person in the company.
Speaker: And what was interesting is I think I forged a better relationship with her than a lot of the people at lower levels in the company, because she was just very approachable.
Speaker: And we had a lot of conversations that had nothing to do about work, but the value of those is building that rapport and trust with another human.
Speaker: That kind of transcends that job, but really leads to opportunity.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And the other thing I would say too, about that example, and I know I did this and I had people do this for me too.
Speaker: When you establish that relationship, it was not uncommon for me to say, Hey, I've got Matt here.
Speaker: We were just talking about X, Y, and Z. I'd like you to meet Nathan.
Speaker: Nathan does blah, blah, and connect those people to each other.
Speaker: And so then I had people do that for me.
Speaker: I did that for others.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: And that's a great networking tip for me.
Speaker: It's something that, that I haven't put enough thought into, but I think being a connector is, even if it's just something simple, I think people appreciate that.
Speaker: It's almost, if you're at some sort of party and you're hosting a party and the people there don't know each other, walking up and saying, Hey, this is my friend, Bob.
Speaker: He's into fishing too.
Speaker: I know you're a fisherman.
Speaker: Why don't, you know, why don't you guys talk about that?
Speaker: And now you've actually planted the seed of even friendship between two strangers.
Speaker: So I think that's huge in an organization.
Speaker: That's huge in networking too.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it costs nothing, right?
Speaker: That's just an easy thing to do for each other.
Speaker: You're giving away all the secrets for your coaching, by the way.
Speaker: This is dangerous.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: There's so much more, Matt.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So, so let's, let's get dark.
Speaker: Are you ready to get dark?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: You're scaring me.
Speaker: This is my heavy question.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So all companies go through rough seasons.
Speaker: Tell me about the tough times.
Speaker: I'm sure in HR, you're always the bearer of bad news sometimes for the organization.
Speaker: What are some of the experiences that you've had?
Speaker: What are
Speaker: maybe suggestions for people that are going through hard times or layoffs or downturns in their company.
Speaker: What is your 31 years of experience have to tell me about?
Speaker: Those are really tough things to think about and reflect on.
Speaker: My thought automatically just go to those reorganizations, reductions, notifying people of their position elimination is one of the hardest things I did in my entire career.
Speaker: For me, it was always making sure that you did that with care and respect because it's just so hard for everyone.
Speaker: When I always used to tell the leaders, if this ever gets easy for you, then you're in the wrong role.
Speaker: It's time to go, right?
Speaker: Because-
Speaker: That is one of the most difficult thing, performance terminations, making sure people have the right resources and things to be successful and then work through that.
Speaker: So I think those would be probably the most difficult parts of the job, the HR job.
Speaker: And I would say for individuals going through tough times, I think give yourself grace because I think so often
Speaker: You think, oh my goodness, this just happened and I need to bounce back tomorrow and I need to start my job search and I need to shift.
Speaker: And I would think if you possibly could give yourself grace with a few days, a few weeks even, to sort of absorb what's happened before you step out there and go after bigger and better things and just try
Speaker: Take the time to get your head in the right space for you and what that means before you jump in and hit the ground again, trying to take a search.
Speaker: And I will tell you this too, and it's probably because I am just the way I am, but numerous times after something like that would happen, I still have helped people find other roles or give them feedback on their resume.
Speaker: So I would say leverage the resources you have, even if it's at the organization you're leaving.
Speaker: Because in those situations, specifically my experiences, we always wanted to help with that transition, whether it's outplacement, take advantage of outplacement, take advantage of the things that you're provided in those circumstances and use them to your benefit.
Speaker: So completely off topic here, but I guess kind of on topic.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What do you think of the LinkedIn open to work badge?
Speaker: Do you think that helps job seekers or do you think that's sort of like a I'm needy pick me kind of badge?
Speaker: I don't really care for it.
Speaker: There's a lot of other ways you can still get that same message across without having that label.
Speaker: Now, that's my opinion.
Speaker: I've heard from others that it's been beneficial for them.
Speaker: So I think it just depends on the lens that you're looking through.
Speaker: If you've developed a really strong network and you have a lot of people that are in your network on LinkedIn that could potentially help you find a job, maybe throw that flag up.
Speaker: If you're somebody who has 10 connections on LinkedIn and five of them are family, it's probably not worth throwing that flag up.
Speaker: Nobody has their eyes on you.
Speaker: And that would be a good question for me to ask my two recruiter friends about their perspective on that.
Speaker: Because like I said, that was my perspective, but I would be curious if they utilize that in any way or how they utilize it, I should say.
Speaker: The biggest dirty secret is if people are laid off or let go is finding a job before it's apparent.
Speaker: Because I think once that gap is in there, then it's okay.
Speaker: Well, what did you do for two years when you weren't in IT and are you still relevant?
Speaker: And I think there's a lot of questions that are asked even before the interview that could be potentially holding good people back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think, yeah, that dialogue, right.
Speaker: That we don't know that happens.
Speaker: I think you're, I think you're right about that.
Speaker: I want to shift gears.
Speaker: We're supposed to be an IT podcast.
Speaker: I don't think I've ever lived up to that yet, but I know you had mentioned before that you did a lot of hiring on the digital side, product managers, all sorts of things like that.
Speaker: What are some of your thoughts on that?
Speaker: What are some considerations with tech hiring that make it different or what are success factors that you've seen in that sort of vein of hiring?
Speaker: When I think about that,
Speaker: I think about the individual contributor versus the people manager, people leaders, and how I would break down those two things.
Speaker: I think for the individual contributor, to me, it's about that person being challenged and excited about what they're doing.
Speaker: And that comes across in the interview and the conversation.
Speaker: And that doesn't mean excited in my voice, like I talk.
Speaker: That just means being interested and excited about the opportunity.
Speaker: And I think that comes across in obviously domain knowledge and all the things that would get you to that interview.
Speaker: And I think it's about being, again, this is my perspective from experience.
Speaker: I think it's about being open to, to, to working on different projects at different times.
Speaker: A lot of what I saw is that we associate ourselves to the work that we're doing and we have the relationships with that team.
Speaker: and we wanna stay with the team.
Speaker: And a lot of times that can't happen just by virtue of the deliverables.
Speaker: So being open to how you will adapt to maybe those kinds of opportunities.
Speaker: The flip side to that from my perspective with people management, people leadership is really around, a lot of times I feel like we're really good at our craft because you're good at your craft, I'm gonna make you a people manager.
Speaker: but you don't have that experience to be a people manager.
Speaker: Making sure that one, that individual wants to be a people manager, right?
Speaker: And they don't just get put into that role.
Speaker: And then two, that you give them the tools they need and that they want to have those tools to lead people.
Speaker: Leading projects and leading people really are so different.
Speaker: And just be sure as an individual contributor that you're going into the position that you really want.
Speaker: and that you understand maybe where there are some areas that you would need to enhance.
Speaker: So again, having an open mind to getting the experiences that you maybe haven't had in the past and know what you're signing up for.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think it's kind of a cliche, but I feel like the people that ask for leadership are probably the people that should never be leaders.
Speaker: You were onto something there, Matt.
Speaker: Now, that being said, I think I will.
Speaker: There's a caveat to that.
Speaker: I think the people that are curious in learning how to become a leader, a.k.a.
Speaker: the entire listening base of this show that I just insulted.
Speaker: I think I think it's a growth path.
Speaker: It's not about a title.
Speaker: It's about actually having the desire to impact lives.
Speaker: And if that's not what you're looking for, if you're looking for a title or for a pay bump or something like that, you shouldn't be a leader, especially in IT.
Speaker: Because like you said, a lot of times, let's say we're promoting a developer or somebody else who's really good at that work.
Speaker: Chances are they're going to be miserable once they become a leader because they're not doing that work anymore or they're doing it with 30% of the time that they used to have.
Speaker: It's difficult.
Speaker: It's something that I've struggled with this in my leadership journey.
Speaker: I grew up from the help desk.
Speaker: I grew up from through all sorts of ranks.
Speaker: And there is that voice in the back of my head that says, hey, you know, you're not doing anything technical today.
Speaker: Are you sure you're still working?
Speaker: It's a difficult journey.
Speaker: If people listening to the show, hopefully you all want to become leaders, but be careful what you wish for and realize that I think you said it earlier, everybody's a leader in what they do.
Speaker: You don't have to be a leader of people.
Speaker: You can be, you could be a leader of technology.
Speaker: You could be, if you're at the top of your game as a developer, well, maybe you're growing, maybe you're learning a different development language.
Speaker: Maybe you're branching out into DevOps or, or some other tangential discipline to development.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: No, and I agree.
Speaker: I mean, obviously your listeners, we don't want anyone to take that as an insult.
Speaker: But I think you're absolutely right when you say, have that conversation though around, what does it really mean?
Speaker: What is the role that we're talking about?
Speaker: What does it mean?
Speaker: Yes, I want a different title.
Speaker: Yes, I want experiences.
Speaker: But are these the right experiences for me at the right time?
Speaker: And then you make your decisions based on that with information.
Speaker: And if you say, well, you know, I think I'm, I really like about 70%, but I know I need help.
Speaker: then have that conversation too.
Speaker: What does that help look like?
Speaker: What do you think, Teresa, that help might look like?
Speaker: How can I help you to navigate giving performance feedback, giving constructive feedback, conflict when people don't all agree?
Speaker: How do I show up in meetings when I have this larger role?
Speaker: What are people looking to me to do?
Speaker: So there's a whole lot of information gathering I think an individual can do before they jump into a people leadership role.
Speaker: the conversation around doer versus leader.
Speaker: And I think sometimes when people are growing or looking for leadership opportunities at companies, that's something that I hear as a frequent thing that's brought up is, okay, this person seems more like a doer than a leader, or this person seems more like a leader than a doer.
Speaker: What do you think are some ways that people could tailor their message maybe in the resume a little bit more to show one thing or another?
Speaker: Because I think
Speaker: What I would think is, well, if I don't want to be seen as a doer, then I need to strip out things that are involved with a doer, but maybe people don't have leadership experience in there.
Speaker: What do you think about all that?
Speaker: I would say with that, and again, back to my comment about we're all leaders, but I would say, think about the times when you, let's say you've led a project, right?
Speaker: So you could be a doer.
Speaker: but you could be leading a project.
Speaker: What did that look like and how can you represent that on your resume?
Speaker: I could totally write that like in a sentence or two.
Speaker: But think about maybe those kinds of things that aren't as obvious to other people, or maybe you were the subject matter expert for some project that came along or
Speaker: the go-to person on the team when you had questions about this, that, or the other thing, because that's leadership, right?
Speaker: Even if your leader isn't in your title of any kind, you're showing leadership by the experiences that you put yourself into or when you're being tapped for something and you're doing.
Speaker: And I would make sure that you use those in a way that talks about leadership in situations and you can explain that.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: If you're listening to the show and you're not a leader and you're looking to get into leadership, do exactly what Teresa just mentioned, because that was awesome advice.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: So, so speaking about advice, I'd like to ask people if you were going to give high school graduate you advice after all these years of experience in, in HR, number one, would you go back in HR?
Speaker: But number two, what are some other pieces of advice that you would give yourself?
Speaker: That's a loaded question, Matt.
Speaker: And that was a long time ago.
Speaker: So let's be clear.
Speaker: For me, I was a perfectionist who wanted to be the best at everything and just be competitive.
Speaker: And I already mentioned I'm high control.
Speaker: I would say stop.
Speaker: Like you don't have to be the best at everything.
Speaker: You don't have to be in competition with people.
Speaker: I put a lot of pressure on myself that I really didn't need.
Speaker: to do.
Speaker: So I wish I would have been a little more chill, still responsible, but a little more chill and maybe celebrate accomplishments a little bit more when they came.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: You're learning too much about me, Matt.
Speaker: High control.
Speaker: I haven't dug out all the deep, dark secrets yet.
Speaker: No, no, that's, that's, that's great.
Speaker: I think if I were going to give myself the same advice, well, or my version of that advice, I would definitely line up with a lot.
Speaker: I think, I think when people are getting started, they're so serious.
Speaker: They're super serious.
Speaker: I think, yeah,
Speaker: Again, back to the imposter syndrome, but that's been over, over discussed.
Speaker: People feel this need to have to prove themselves.
Speaker: People feel the need to prove they're the smartest person in the room.
Speaker: And the most important things for somebody who is fresh out of high school or college or wherever you're from is really that curiosity, humility, and the willingness to learn.
Speaker: If you give me those three in somebody that doesn't even know the industry, I can create somebody that is really high performance in that industry.
Speaker: But if you don't have those things, you could give me a seasoned 10, 15 year veteran.
Speaker: If they don't have those things, they're not going to be successful.
Speaker: They'll be able to do the job as hired, but they can't grow.
Speaker: And those are magical words.
Speaker: Again, for those taking notes, I couldn't have said it better.
Speaker: I know we're a little bit over an hour right now.
Speaker: I'm so appreciative of your time.
Speaker: I'm going to have to listen to this like 10 times just to soak all of this up.
Speaker: Fortunately, I do that during the editing process.
Speaker: So that's good.
Speaker: But I do want to make a little bit of time for you here at the end.
Speaker: Is there anything that you're promoting or that you'd like to mention for everybody?
Speaker: I touched on this a little bit.
Speaker: It might be confusing.
Speaker: I did have my 31 years at a large company as the HR generalist, HR VP.
Speaker: And then I became a certified leadership coach through IPAC in 2019.
Speaker: And I was still at the company and I was using my coaching, obviously, in my job.
Speaker: But about a year and a half ago, I pivoted to running my own business here with my leadership coaching.
Speaker: And then I do HR consulting as well.
Speaker: You mentioned my company name, Insights Leadership Coaching and HR Consulting.
Speaker: I work with a lot of individuals who are either becoming new, like emerging leaders or individuals who have just gone into a leadership role and helping them to sort of expand on all of the goodness that they're bringing into those roles.
Speaker: And then maybe finding some places where we can
Speaker: take some of those skills obviously to the next level.
Speaker: And I spent a lot of time doing that, a lot of time talking about the what you do, but then how you do it and how important those two things are connected.
Speaker: If you've worked with me before, you're probably sick of hearing the what and the how, because that's like my thing.
Speaker: I spent a lot of time coaching and then I have been doing some HR consulting as well, which I really thoroughly enjoy on my own as an independent.
Speaker: I focus on succession planning or design.
Speaker: Performance management, comp strategies, especially in the tech space.
Speaker: So that's about it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's what I'm, that's what I'm doing to keep myself busy these days.
Speaker: And I love it.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: If you're looking to get into leadership, how are people going to reach out to you?
Speaker: How do they connect?
Speaker: It's easy.
Speaker: It's Teresa.insights at gmail.com.
Speaker: Easy.
Speaker: My phone number, which I text, whatever is 614-
Speaker: 565-5257.
Speaker: And I would say ping me if you would like those, the list of my thinking about applying for positions and getting yourself ready.
Speaker: I can be a resource and I would love to help in any way I can.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker: I had a really, this was a fun conversation.
Speaker: So thank you very much.
Speaker: Thank you, Matt.
Speaker: This has been great.
Speaker: I love, and I'm so glad you're doing what you're doing.
Speaker: I think it's so important and you're so good at what you do.
Speaker: It's just like having a conversation with my friends.
Speaker: So I appreciate it.
Speaker: please reach out to us via email and social media.
Speaker: Your questions and ideas are important and we'd love to give you a seat at the virtual table.
Speaker: Thank you.
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