Transcript
Karen Seinor: Hello, welcome to episode 26 of the Soulful and Wild show. Now today I'm going to talk to you about permaculture and I'd like to do a series on permaculture and just sort of focus on a couple of different areas. So today...
Karen Seinor: and Where I want to focus is... on starting where you are. Now, when I first started this little journey, I bought a small suburban block a block that nobody else would want it was on ah a slant it was a weird shape no one would be able to build a normal house on it um it's kind of like this weird triangular shape And... um But I had a certain budget.
Karen Seinor: And I had a big dream. and a big burn in my belly. to make that dream happen by hook or by crook. And so with only a few pennies in... um the kitty I had to be creative. now I actually spent a year.
Karen Seinor: traveling up to an hour in every direction out from Aubrey Wodonga. And. I actually saw this block of land. up to sale.
Karen Seinor: End. In my mind I said to myself, or that'll be no good. and I never even came to have a look at it. 12 months later it was still sitting here waiting for me.
Karen Seinor: Anyway. When I came to have a look at it I actually, I was at my chiropractor's, which is not very far from here. and It just dropped into my head. Just go and look for that block of land. Now, seriously, I can get lost in a brown paper bag.
Karen Seinor: I did not have the address and I'd never been here. And I drove. straight here. or just drive straight here. I climbed and it was nothing.
Karen Seinor: It was absolutely nothing It's an older area of Albury. This block had never been built on. There's a big ginormous sort of ugly house. next to it and And this was one of three blocks that...
Karen Seinor: this gentleman had purchased and he only ever had his sheep here I think he must have grown wheat or some kind of green crop at some time because every now and then a bit of wood. um bounces up out of nowhere.
Karen Seinor: and um... there was just capeweed on it so that tells you the quality of the soil not that great. i And just this really old. you know, barbed wire fence.
Karen Seinor: I e a farm fence. and a farm gate. I pulled up. I climbed over the farm gate and the moment my feet touched the ground I went.
Karen Seinor: Oh my God, this is it. And... Yeah, i made I made an offer on it and it was accepted. ah Well, it wasn't accepted immediately because they said, nope, the asking price is the asking price. And I just went with it.
Karen Seinor: um not terribly negotiatory of me, but I was like I knew. So... It was no big shakes. Nobody else wanted it. It didn't work for a normal situation.
Karen Seinor: And of course. I had this big vision in my mind I really wanted to build a dome house. That. I'd wanted to do that since I was 20. And back then, that's quite a long time ago now.
Karen Seinor: there was We didn't have the internet back then. I know it's like a crazy idea, i but we did not have it. We did not have. I don't think we had mobile phones, no we definitely didn't. and um I...
Karen Seinor: sent to america for a book on domes i don't even know where this came from but I wanted one, I wanted one bad End. In the end I just had to come to grips with the fact that that was not going to be feasible.
Karen Seinor: I didn't have enough money. to entice a builder to go out of building the square little creations that they're used to building. Anything that's unusual costs more money.
Karen Seinor: you know, to get someone to do the roof to make sure it didn't leak. I was going to have to find someone to come from Canberra. You know, that's a three and a half hour drive. That was just going to be.
Karen Seinor: a tricky banana sort of situation. so In the end, I came to grips with you the reality that I was going to have to do something a bit more regular. Now for me, a bit more regular than that was going to be a container home.
Karen Seinor: and I had numerous conversations with a very lovely gentleman at the Albury City Council who In the end, said to me Karen, I don't think that is gonna happen.
Karen Seinor: I don't think we're going to be able to. Let that happen. So I found a regular builder. I had a very set budget. on UI. what my number was.
Karen Seinor: And I spoke to this guy and... His brother was a builder. He was involved with that. And he said, yep. We can do that for you. I'd drawn out a rough on what I wanted.
Karen Seinor: Oh my gosh, came back. It was over $100 ,000 more than my actual budget. and I'd told them what the budget was. was Devo. absolutely devastated.
Karen Seinor: So. I guess what I'm sharing with you straight up is that it was a really up and down sort of um journey for me to come to grips with what I could actually do on this block and fit within.
Karen Seinor: Um... the norms. Do you know what I mean? because I didn't have unlimited money. I needed to fit within some kind of construct that I could get it done. in the end. you know.
Karen Seinor: because I'm sure that I could have done a dome house. if I'd been able to stay the distance. and paid a lot more money than I had at the time. But the drag out, the drama, I just...
Karen Seinor: I was past it really. and Yeah, so... The container home I did some backwards and forwards with. it I did a lot of research. heaps of research. I had huge files.
Karen Seinor: um I don't know I had about four files. I knew so much stuff. And I'd looked at transportable homes, but that was not going to work with lenders.
Karen Seinor: they had their own rules. And of course. You know, the amount of money that they were going to give me at one point changed when things shifted in.
Karen Seinor: you know politically End. you know within the country so ah it was a bit of a moving feast I've got to tell you. Anywho, long story short. I happened to go into Sheds and Homes. They were they had ah an office here in Albury for a period of time.
Karen Seinor: And I walked in there. I looked at the smallest little kit home they had. It was a ah shed, basically. And I knew that it would work. because um And it's called The Weekender. if you're interested in having a look um And I said to the guy,
Karen Seinor: was a kid and i said could you build that for me could you get a build ah builder to build that for me and he looked at me and I gave him a figure. and he went we'll be pretty tired it might have to be a bit more than that and I said If you could make that happen.
Karen Seinor: Get back to me. Anyway. gave him my number. And he got back to me. And so we made a deal. And... He got a really good builder, really good local builder to do it.
Karen Seinor: And I'm sure it's the smallest house he's ever built in his life. And I think it challenged him from that perspective. And I was probably a real weirdo for them as well. You know I did.
Karen Seinor: I did odd things like... um I wanted the house. I wanted to flip the the house for a start. so it's the The front door, the front of the house on the design is actually at the back of my property because The back face is north.
Karen Seinor: So I wanted the windows, I wanted the light to come in. And the back door, I've just put a fancy door on it. And that is actually. the front door. For me, where I live the front door is in their design actually the back door.
Karen Seinor: It works. And because I knew that I would be working with clients. and from home. because that's part of my permaculture. uh Why would I go and pay rent somewhere else when I can work from home?
Karen Seinor: um And. you know, keep that whole system. ah flowing well. um So the only change I had to make was to ask them to put a sliding door like a pocket door in the little hallway so that I could shut that and my clients can come in. my front door.
Karen Seinor: the small bathroom. is in that little hallway. And what is... supposed to be the master bedroom is my home office and that little pocket door shuts off.
Karen Seinor: that area. from my living space. And it works beautifully. Yeah. So anyway. um It was a bit of a challenge for me. I, you know, I'm a single woman, a woman of a certain age. I didn't have some big scary guy standing at the back of my shoulder and dealing with men.
Karen Seinor: um In the building industry, was a bit of a trick. I've got to tell you the truth, it really challenged me because at that time I was running my own business. I'd been in practice for quite a long time. I didn't have to deal with all that. I was, you know, the queen of my own universe. And suddenly I'm dealing with blokes who think I'm a nufty. And the truth of the matter is there's a lot of things I didn't know about that.
Karen Seinor: that whole scene and I was dealing with two builders so there was two of them and one of me. and that was sometimes really hard and Also, I didn't know what I didn't know. I was not aware of their constraints or what their expectations were. It was a brand new. sort of space to be in so I'm sure I was a trick a bit of a challenge for them.
Karen Seinor: um And of course, i don't think that I don't think the two men had actually worked together before. And my sense is that they were doing this as a bit of ah a trial, a bit of an exercise to see if they could do something because this was very affordable housing.
Karen Seinor: And you know it really could work very well for... for a builder to run to build houses like this. In fact, if I win a squillion dollars, I think I'll do that myself. to to make it more achievable for people to get into their own home, something that will work.
Karen Seinor: Now. What? Let me
Karen Seinor: What happened, of course, is as normally does is. you do a build and it takes so much longer than you expect it's going to take and not because the builders weren't good but you know there's council hold -ups there's you know that all sorts of things went on.
Karen Seinor: And. And I'd had a bit of a... a life shift. I'd part way through all of this my My dad passed away. I woke up one day and I was just like.
Karen Seinor: I can't keep doing this the way I'm doing it. and um I closed up shop. I was obviously at some real pivotal sort of tower experience in my life at the time. So partway through this build, I went and got a job, part -time job, and I closed my practice.
Karen Seinor: And I actually lived behind the clinic. um I used to run Aubrey Hypnotherapy Clinic and I did that for about 10 years, full time. and To be honest with you I think I was burnt out.
Karen Seinor: I think I've been working long long days. for a long time lots of pressure, just a total solo operator. And i'd I'd reached. a place.
Karen Seinor: So... um Yeah big change. Anyway so while this house is being built I was a little bit... to up in the air and I stayed at my mum and my stepdad's place for a while.
Karen Seinor: and then of course it dragged on and on and on and i ended up buying a caravan and um I lived in that. for the last few months, the last few months, winter.
Karen Seinor: Winter. With a dog. And then COVID happened. It was really, actually, it was kind of crazy. But anyway. um so We did get it done.
Karen Seinor: We did get it done. But there were all sorts of challenges, like, you know, the builder wanted to move it over. rather than where I wanted it placed and he wanted it on a different angle and i didn't want that because i wanted it facing north and in the end i actually caved i was i sort of got to this place where i was just like oh my god just get this thing done And. um And so we sort of came to a bit of an, you know.
Karen Seinor: an agreement on that something that I have regretted I must admit um but it's pretty good still. Anyway. So I moved in here in July 2020 and I worked from home. until the I think...
Karen Seinor: 2021. Anyway, so straight away, I'm working from home. out of this little house but I tell you what I'd lived in a caravan with a puppy dog for the whole of a winter.
Karen Seinor: No bathroom in the caravan, I might add. And. when i moved in here now this place is is it nine and a half by six and a half meters is not big. One of my brothers said to me, Karen you do realize that your house is smaller than your brother's shed.
Karen Seinor: and I think it actually is But I felt like I had just come into this mansion because I'd been living in this caravan. All my gear had been in storage for about 12 months.
Karen Seinor: and or close to it. And... It was amazing. I'd got rid of a whole bunch of stuff. but When it all got delivered here, I was like, oh my God, this is not going to all fit in here. So I offloaded all this um office furniture, filing cabinets, desk, bookshelves and all that. I sold it for like 10 bucks a piece or something and some fabulous lady bought it all.
Karen Seinor: off Facebook the day I got it moved here. she hired a truck and boom. Took it. and um because it was just too big and chunky for the small space. Now I've got all the things in this um space that I...
Karen Seinor: want some nice cheers. Cabinet. There's another chair there. Um. I'm sitting at a great big desk here with the big...
Karen Seinor: computer on it and so on. And. um and I bought this stuff from Fantastic Furniture. Works way better. Anyway. um Yeah, I felt like I'd really come into this huge space.
Karen Seinor: So it's... It's so interesting, you know, what If I had moved here straight away from this large um place where I had a big dining table and all the things it might have felt squashy but I did this lovely little transition um doing the caravan before I moved here and I've just never looked back I can't even imagine living in an enormous house now I
Karen Seinor: I have friends with huge houses and it's wonderful, great when the family comes home for a visit, which isn't that often, let's be real. um But the idea of having to keep the blasted thing clean really puts me off. Anyway.
Karen Seinor: So... In, I think it was 2022. I... Study permaculture. Now, this is something I really wanted to do when I was running my practice, but it was going to cost me about five and a half grand to do it.
Karen Seinor: Now, what happened for me is that when they did that whole COVID thing, I wasn't that comfortable with the idea of um having the COVID injection at that time I just didn't I didn't feel right about it and so I kind of stuck to my guns and I I i didn't do that and in the end they fired me because i wouldn't have it i mean i was working from home for a year I got a letter from the Health Minister of New South Wales to say I wasn't even allowed to work online.
Karen Seinor: as a counselor. um So that was absolutely. I just couldn't get a job in my field of expertise at that time. so I was unemployable.
Karen Seinor: basically. So what I did is... I was like, wow, okay, so suddenly I'm unemployed. I've got a mortgage to pay.
Karen Seinor: A bit tricky. And. um
Karen Seinor: I went and did the course. I actually enrolled in this some course I'd really wanted to do and it didn't cost me any money. was really amazing. So. It was pretty pretty slim pickings for that 12 -month time frame.
Karen Seinor: It worked. I got there. And so it was it was really fantastic, I've got to say. Rob Fenton was our main lecturer. And. um We had.
Karen Seinor: Some other people come in and a lovely man. also was the assistant lecturer and worked with us. at Green Gate Farm which is part of the National Environment Centre.
Karen Seinor: through. Charles Sturt University. And it was an amazing year. An amazing year now. I've got to admit,
Karen Seinor: I was strung out. I was very stressed from that whole from being fired from my job which I did love actually. I was part It was a dual role. I worked as a financial counselor and as a therapeutic counselor.
Karen Seinor: And it was pretty devastating to... to be fired. for something so... I consider it kind of dumb. and um unethical but anyway that's what happened so it did create this opening for me to go and do this discourse.
Karen Seinor: And that's what I did. But I was pooped when I got there. I was tired. And I think like a lot of people at that particular point in history. um It was an odd time, but...
Karen Seinor: Interestingly enough, I could be a student at the university. And what was wonderful is that our classroom was actually on the farm. You know, they had um two.
Karen Seinor: ah transportable. classrooms but of course they were not fit to be used so they were locked up they needed major renovations to be safe so we had our whole year of classrooms I think except for two classes in the shelter shed.
Karen Seinor: it And it literally was like a big carport, no walls. even in the dead of winter. And so I'll... classes were all run there so we were On the ground, literally, we were on farm.
Karen Seinor: And we did things like moving the sheep rotation of... of the Animals as Fully Organic Farm. And. I went into that space and I'd i'd come out of running a...
Karen Seinor: I practiced for 10 years and I'd done. 12. 12 months, I think, or six months, maybe I can't remember now. at um that community service organisation.
Karen Seinor: And really... you know, being very professional and doing the job and all that. And... um I guess really I was a bit of a perfectionist.
Karen Seinor: and also a workaholic which is why I got so pooped and it was easier for me to go and get a job working for somebody than working for myself. I'm a harsh boss mate I've got to tell you. um Okay. No sick days unless you're dying when when you work for yourself.
Karen Seinor: and no holiday pay you know all that stuff doing the book work blah blah blah Anyhoo. So... I went in to that environment which was uber relaxed and very working with the seasons. And now look.
Karen Seinor: I've... practised working with the Celtic wheel. for a very long time But... There was an aspect of me that hadn't really integrated that the slow rhythm.
Karen Seinor: of that. to be honest. Um... The concepts, the ritual, all of that I had and I loved it. But I hadn't brought in that.
Karen Seinor: slow flow. And that's one of the biggest gifts that I got out of that 12 -month study. o with Rob. and my lovely classmates. who were a very mixed bunch, I must say.
Karen Seinor: And... There's a number of them that I really deeply connected with and some not so much. But... It was a year of... profound learning and I've I ah feel like...
Karen Seinor: The majority of the students who were in that group We're all pretty unique people And. all had interesting stories of their own.
Karen Seinor: and their own reasons for... at looking at and wanting to live a more permaculture -based life. So that was kind of cool. And. um
Karen Seinor: Yeah, so I mean I had a pretty clear vision about what I wanted to create here. at at the cottage ah you know i already had the the i was already living here obviously and um I...
Karen Seinor: Had done some things. I planted some trees and all that sort of stuff. But the garden was still very much in process. And, um... doing the course helped me enormously. In fact, I'd done quite a bit of stuff like i put some um My family helped me with um putting some retaining walls in.
Karen Seinor: One of my brothers said to me, Karen we've got to put in at the front or else if there's a big rain we're going to have to dig you out. Because the guys did a really deep... um cut in the block to get it.
Karen Seinor: a flat area. to put the cottage. Now honestly at the time i really wanted to be up higher i wanted to be on posts But... On reflection, I've realized that actually,
Karen Seinor: In many ways, it's better for me to be on the ground.
Karen Seinor: Peace. I hope you didn't get a big puppy bark in your ears. I apologize if you did. um Yeah, so... On reflection, I think the guys have done me a favour.
Karen Seinor: Because what's happened is i my whole... um The cottage I have this area here that's all flat ground.
Karen Seinor: and in terms of aging. that's actually a very good thing. And I discovered that. because i I had a ah trip. and I broke a bone in one of my my right foot.
Karen Seinor: And I was... I was non -weight -bearing for about seven weeks, which was very, very challenging. now If I'd had to go...
Karen Seinor: downstairs to get out of the house at that time I would have been stuck in the house for seven weeks which would not have been fun. So on reflection, it was a really great thing Anywho.
Karen Seinor: So. My... um My vision. for this place. was very much about...
Karen Seinor: the ideal of having some level of self -sufficiency or some capacity to to nourish myself through, you know, growing veggies and things. and very much about creating a sacred space for myself, a sanctuary.
Karen Seinor: for me but also for people that i care about so family friends and even clients because i wanted to work from here that felt for me like you know if i'm creating this beautiful sacred space I want it to be healing.
Karen Seinor: And I wanted my clients to be able to come into that space and benefit from being in a space where energetically there is um a frequency being held.
Karen Seinor: 4. Uh... well -being But also... healing plants and all that sort of thing. so very you know I had a really lovely vision for it.
Karen Seinor: And. One of the beautiful things was that 12 -month course. gave me the practicalities that I needed to get my vision into something that would work and to some degree I was kind of doing a bit of a retrofit in a way I mean the house itself is fabulous um in terms of it's not a tiny house, but it's extremely small.
Karen Seinor: And. you know, You talk to people today and they can't even envision a house that doesn't have four bedrooms, a double garage.
Karen Seinor: two bathrooms and a butler's pantry, you know. Yes. But. One of the things that I've really learned because I really explored the tiny house space, but they're very expensive. The house that I built. here.
Karen Seinor: was... Really?
Karen Seinor: on par cost -wise with one of those fancy um Tony Hobbs. I mean, it's not as super luxe as some of those super fancy tiny homes. but You know, I've got sewerage and everything. and It's all council legit. so water tank and all that sort of jazz. so Yeah.
Karen Seinor: But what I've done is I've i've made it small. But I'm one person. So. It doesn't need to be enormous. so One of the things... that happened in this course was this shift.
Karen Seinor: in mentality about um, what is useful and what is not. And that's across the board, not just about buildings, but about even gardens. you know Do you really need to have a food forest? Well actually, no you don't.
Karen Seinor: You just need to be able to feed yourself. and the level of work that you want to do to do that is something that gets taken into consideration. So in terms of my vision,
Karen Seinor: I'll just read this out to you because I've got it written down here in case I forgot. I wanted it to be a place of soul. where body and spirit can be nourished and healed through nature, cycles.
Karen Seinor: and community along with deep conversations, ritual rest. yoga laughter and love now it's a great big vision that's why i had to read it out So.
Karen Seinor: You know, I had the idea in my mind. that There would be places here in the garden where... I... and others could stop and rest, where conversations could happen, that there would be a space to do yoga. Because, you know, I'm a trained yoga teacher.
Karen Seinor: And... um At different times I've dropped that. And it's it's part of my vision is that I will be. living this life here.
Karen Seinor: this very simple life. a more restful life than I have lived in the past, where I do yoga. and that I can actually invite people in my community, perhaps my neighborhood.
Karen Seinor: all my special friends, my special tribe clients even, um to enjoy. coming into the garden and doing yoga.
Karen Seinor: So... gatherings. And I actually have done that quite a few times, you know, had a tarot reading day and invited people who've come and done tarot classes with me bring your cards come along and you know i'll put on cake and get the teapots out and we all get together and read for each other. and sit on the verandas and on rugs in the garden and it's wonderful
Karen Seinor: So... That is actually happening. Not all the time. But. when I can manage that. So... The other thing is the spirit of place.
Karen Seinor: now something interesting happened. Here. I was here one day. End.
Karen Seinor: I saw this gentleman. ah So there is a spirit. Um. There is a being. Who? has dominion over this particular piece of land.
Karen Seinor: and I And he presented himself to me. very beautiful, very still, very... Ancient person.
Karen Seinor: And...
Karen Seinor: He shared with me that this is his place, that I am to caretake it. And that it was held for me. like so I'm the right person to be here at this time.
Karen Seinor: But I have to ask. if I want to do things. Like in terms of, and I forgot once. And it wasn't a good thing. I got a smack on my hand. um So you know if I want to do something that's a bit structural, like put in a retaining wall and move the dirt big time, then I ask.
Karen Seinor: Is this a check in with him? is this. an okay thing to do. and i you know I just honor that. and So there's a real...
Karen Seinor: you know, sort of. A respect. for the spirit of this place. End. the awareness that I am simply here for this time.
Karen Seinor: and Yeah, I really honour that. So what else? um
Karen Seinor: Yeah, this the other thing is... um This is kind of a cool thing. I have a friend who lives in another state and I rang her and said to her, I've seen this place. i've seen this place it's I'm sure it's the place.
Karen Seinor: and she said to me Oh yeah, I can see it. She said there's all these palm trees. Absolutely. And I told her it was a triangle and she said, yeah, it's the centre point.
Karen Seinor: She gave me some information about this. bit of land. Good. gifted. And I said to her, no, there is nothing on there. There is not a single tree. The only thing on there is cateweed. She said, no, no, I can see them. I can see the palm trees.
Karen Seinor: and that's part of you know, a sign that you know it's ah ah' a place. of um Rest. a place of an oasis really, a healing place.
Karen Seinor: And I thought, oh, she's losing it, you know. Anyway, I came back the next day and bugger me. behind me, next door. All around me in the...
Karen Seinor: the gardens and the the blocks of land around me. There was all palm trees. So obviously... what she was reading. energetically was not just this block.
Karen Seinor: but a bigger. energy. spatially. So... I did ring her when I got home and I said, oh, you're right, you bugger. and I took photos of the palm trees and they're on every all around.
Karen Seinor: So that was kind of cool. And it was lovely confirmation for me too, but because I felt it. Yeah. just so gorgeous anyway i may have rambled a tiny bit but Um,
Karen Seinor: It was a bit of a journey to get here. The place got built, it's very small, so it fits in with that minimalist kind of concept, small footprint. And so I have a small house. It's quite a big block of land, actually.
Karen Seinor: um because it's an older block in an old subdivision. and that's also one of the reasons why I was able to build a smaller home. you know, a lot of these new subdivisions, they have to be houses certain size and all that sort of thing to fit in with.
Karen Seinor: Whatever the... the rule current rules are for the area. but um What I'm going to do is I'm going to... um speak more about permaculture so this is kind of our intro into the you know start where you are with what you've got
Karen Seinor: It doesn't matter. You don't have to have it all at once. It doesn't work like that and permaculture itself just can't work like that. We start with something and we're constantly doing refining and and adjustments because that's the beauty of it. So.
Karen Seinor: The next podcast, I am going to be talking about permaculture, but it'll be... Um, designing with the land and I'm going to also speak on the zones so that you know exactly how to set this up for yourself.
Karen Seinor: I'll talk about the seasons, the cycles and the self. So, you know, the turning wheel. how that works with this. And also zone six, which is the inner landscape for me, permaculture.
Karen Seinor: Most people think about vegetable gardens. and um water catchment and things like that. But for me, permaculture is truly a spiritual.
Karen Seinor: pathway. And I'll be speaking. um specifically to that. in the last of the permaculture.
Karen Seinor: podcast so there's a little bit of a series here so this is like part one start where you are from cape weed to cottage okay So I hope that you um got something out of this now if you are interested in looking at the video presentation that I've done on the whole process.
Karen Seinor: you'll find that um in the resources area on my website. So you can click on resources And there'll be a drop down box and it's Reflections, which is my podcast.
Karen Seinor: ah Sorry, which is my... um blog. posts then videos. which is this, the podcast. Oh no. I've totally got that wrong.
Karen Seinor: Allow me to correct myself. just go to the resources page. Click on videos. And you'll find that there is like a 50 minute presentation.
Karen Seinor: that will show you absolutely everything it was the um final assignment that i did for my permaculture course so ah i have shorter hair and all that sort of stuff because it was it's it's done a little while ago but um You'll be able to see the shape of the block, the design of the house.
Karen Seinor: all the different elements and and you'll be able to track it because I spell out visually as well as verbally exactly how to do it. You'll be able to align it to your own place if you want to do that. so um that's where that is and I might see if I can put a link to it in the description here for this.
Karen Seinor: um but it will still these the the next lot of um podcasts will probably be very helpful to go along with that if you're interested. all right have a wonderful day and thanks so much for hanging out with me
