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Episode 339: Wrapping up a weird season
59 Plays4 years ago
We tie a bow on a season that was both had some epic highs but ended with a thud.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
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Transcript
Introduction and Book Release
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fulpel's unique writing style is applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Meet the Hosts
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. What? Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Jordan Morris getting in behind Florian Youngford. Jordan Morris! Scores!
00:00:50
Speaker
And how's this for a save from Steph and Fry? Here comes Roy Deers from the middle to crowd it to Seattle. What do the Tigers dream of? They take a little Tigers in. It's the Sounders and an S-Com. I feel a lot better than Bob.
00:01:18
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills the greenest green in Seattle. Like a beautiful child growing up... I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:42
Speaker
I have no idea. I don't know.
Seattle Sounders Season Overview
00:01:45
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of Nos Adietes, sponsored by Fullpool Wines. This is episode 339, and we're recording on Wednesday, December 1st, 2021. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan, joining me as usual as Aaron Campo and Lickit P. In many ways, The Sounders gave us a highly enjoyable season, but in the way we so often measure things, this year fell woefully short. Despite just our third ever 60-point campaign, The Sounders went
00:02:10
Speaker
And, or the center has failed to advance to at least the conference semi-finals for the first time ever and failed to win at least one playoff game for the first time in 10 years. On the plus side, they get three more weeks for prepare for the CONCACAF Champions League, which is starting in, believe it or not, a little more than two months. All in all, I don't know, Aaron, does it feel like a successful season? Does it feel like a absolute failure of a season? What's, how do we look back on, on a year that.
00:02:40
Speaker
in some ways showed really impressive growth. And in other ways, it feels like a good regression. It felt like an extremely successful two months and then pretty mediocre. I think after that, that crazy
00:02:56
Speaker
winning and unbeaten streak to start the year and how they were setting the world on fire, setting all sorts of defensive records and everything. The whole expectation was, wow, if they're playing this well now,
00:03:14
Speaker
wait until, you know, and X never came. And they were actually pretty mediocre as a team. Uh, after that point, after that first half of the season, um, they really just didn't not have the season, but really first third of the season. Um,
00:03:29
Speaker
They just didn't look especially good at any point after like early October. And so it was definitely a not with a bang, but a whimper kind of season. There were a lot of enjoyable things about the season. I don't think it's a failure of a season. I mean, I think anytime you finish second.
00:03:46
Speaker
Uh, and, and go on a run like that, like they did early. Um, you have to feel, you know, pretty good about it. All things considered. Um, and I think especially given not to make excuses for, for a really poor ending of the season, but I think especially given some of the absences they've had the injuries that they had to deal with on the stretch. Um, you know, it's, it makes its thing a little bit less, I suppose. Um,
Midseason Success and Struggles
00:04:08
Speaker
and I think.
00:04:10
Speaker
You can't really be disappointed, but I also, I don't think I'm going to look back on this year fondly. You know what I mean? And we kind of talked about that towards the end of the summer, you know, mid September about how, how much fun this year had been just the last couple of months where we're not especially fun. Uh, and they, it was a, it was a little bit of a drag at the end there. And I, you know, you go back and you break the season up.
00:04:35
Speaker
And you're right, after that 13 games start, I think they only average like a point and a half for the rest of the season, which they would still have been a playoff team. I think they would have been fourth or fifth in the playoffs. I looked this up. I think it would have been fourth or fifth in the playoffs based on the way they played over their last 21 games. But even that, I think, in some ways, both overstates and understates what they did, because then they had this stretch of 13 games sort of like in the middle of the season.
00:05:03
Speaker
where they were absolutely on fire. They went 10 and three in all competitions that included two wins against league IMX teams. They were, you know, blowing teams out at home, playing really, really exciting soccer. And then they just sort of fizzled out after that. And they went 0-3 and 3 down the stretch. I guess 0-3 and 4, if you include the playoff game.
00:05:29
Speaker
And, you know, like you alluded to this season was so promising at the start, not just because of how well they were playing, but because they were playing so well while missing all these pieces. And it was like, well, if they can just get those pieces back, all of a sudden this is going to be a really great team. And I remember at one point.
00:05:49
Speaker
Garth Largaway was kind of fond of saying, no one's going to be able to have the impact of the summer transfer window that we will, because we don't even need to sign anyone. We're going to be getting all these guys back during the summer. We're going to get Nico Lagera back. We're going to get Stephen Fry back. We're going to get, I don't know if Raul Rodriguez was out at the time, but
00:06:11
Speaker
it was this idea that you'd give us Nucaladero and Stephen Fry and all of a sudden, you know, we're right there with the best teams in the league. And the problem was, is that
00:06:20
Speaker
You know, Fry came back and he was fine, but he I don't think he ever played up to the standard that he started the season with. Uh, Nicola Joe really never came back. We're all really ideas kept going in and out of the lineup. Uh, you know, Jordan Morris was a, a little bit of a surprise addition towards the end of the season, but I think our expectations were way too high. Really. Uh, you know, he, he looked physically back, but he didn't look like he would, you know, what can you,
00:06:48
Speaker
What can you really expect? I mean, he looked like someone who was coming out of preseason in terms of his sharpness. And I don't know. What I said on Twitter shortly after the season was like they did a great job of sort of holding it together.
00:07:05
Speaker
but they were never able to kind of complete the entire piece. Like it was, you know, I think I've used this analogy a few times. It was like they, they were putting a puzzle together knowing that they were missing all the pieces. And then every time they'd find one of those pieces under the couch cushion or whatever, some other piece would, you know, the cat would take away another piece. Yeah. I mean, I think that it, when you look at how many guys over for over performed early in the season,
00:07:33
Speaker
And you look at the minutes they played, and then you look at how they fell off late in the year. I mean, those are guys that you wouldn't have expected to contribute as much as they did. Colin Rowe, I think, is a great example. He's taken a lot of stick for his performances down the stretch. But he was, I think, very clearly fatigued. He was playing 90 minutes in games that he looked about cooked after 75 minutes because he played, I think, four minutes this year than he's played in his career.
00:07:57
Speaker
He played in every game and not just every league game. He played in all three of the league's cup games and in the playoff games. He actually played 38 games this year. I mean, and, and he, I think is the most extreme example, but I think that there was a lot of that of you were getting great performances out of guys that were sort of house money and
00:08:24
Speaker
you know, I think then just like at a certain point, you can't expect that anymore. Like there was regression, there was fatigue set in. And you
Playoff Performance and Criticism
00:08:32
Speaker
know, the standard just slipped, the level just slipped. And it's disappointing. And I think the most frustrating thing has got to be that the guys that we've been able to depend on the last few years just didn't
00:08:46
Speaker
really show up either literally or figuratively, um, and, and big games, uh, the biggest being the playoff game down the stretch. And, um, you know, some of that is probably just the luck sort of even and out. Um, it's, it's a bummer, but, uh, I just, I think that you can be very frustrated with the way this season ended. I think I called the way that they went on to RSL embarrassing. And I think it was pretty embarrassing to not be able to
00:09:12
Speaker
to beat a team in regulation that was so uninterested in playing that they didn't register a shot. But at the same time, I mean, that's one game, you know, it's one game in a playoff where you don't get a second leg to make up for, for what happened in the first one. And, um, you know, I mean, shit happens like the playoffs are flukey. The Sounders have certainly gotten some, some flukey luck. Um, I think, I don't know, it's, it's frustrating, but I just,
00:09:41
Speaker
after the 2013 season, I think everybody was angry, uh, and felt like things needed to be blown up and wanted to place blame. And I just didn't feel that this year. Like I felt like it was unexpected, but also somewhat predictable the way it ended. Um, and you know, you just, you can't make the MLS cup every year. Like you, especially with an older core and, um, and the kind of injuries it just, you know, it's been, it's been a pretty good run of playoff success and,
00:10:11
Speaker
We'll regroup and see how it goes next year. I think we came into the year feeling like it was probably going to maybe not be a total rebuild of a year, but I think we expected it to have elements of that. I don't think we started this year with the expectation that MLS Cup was a realistic goal.
00:10:34
Speaker
And for better, for worse, you know, that started the season, I think changed our, our expectations and it, and it made it seem like MLS cup was, was totally doable. You know, I, I know I felt like it after those 13 games that the supporters shield was entirely reasonable. And that was a hundred percent, not something I came into this season thinking was possible. And.
00:10:58
Speaker
And as it went on, I think, you know, there were a lot of points where I felt like, you know, especially after the, those back to back wins over the rapids and the whitecaps where they outscored two very good teams, seven to one at home and they did it with style and, you know, they were flying up and down the field and it was just a lot of fun. Like.
00:11:20
Speaker
if you told me right then that this team was going to win MLS cup, I would have absolutely, you know, like I was, I was, I was on that train. I was totally there. And I, and I think that's, that's the part of it that makes this season sting a little bit was
00:11:35
Speaker
our expectations. I think we saw enough promising play this year that our expectations were driven really high. And I
Future Outlook and Key Players
00:11:45
Speaker
think it was probably unreal. If you really looked at the underlying numbers, there was a lot of reason to be skeptical of
00:11:53
Speaker
how good this team was. I think it was a good team, but I don't think it was ever really a great team. I think at times the defense was great, but the offense had some real issues. You know, they really wouldn't really ideas wasn't on the field that they struggled, although
00:12:10
Speaker
It should be said those that that run at the end of the middle run of the season, they had a bunch of games where Rudy has been playing and they still were finding ways to score. But then will Bruin goes down, you know, I think predictably Freddie Monteiro sort of tired at the end of the season and a lot of guys that.
00:12:29
Speaker
you know, like you said, we were relying to play on a lot more minutes than they had ever played before. And it just wasn't going down. And I think if anything, that game against RSL sort of illustrated the fine margins that the Sounders have been dealing with at home or in the playoffs, you know, like last year, you go back to the Minnesota game, they needed to come back from two goals down to win.
00:12:56
Speaker
Dallas, they just happened to get a one set peace goal to win that one. And you can kind of go... Two years ago, they had the 4-3 win over Dallas and overtime, and you can kind of just like go through the playoffs and find a lot of really close calls. And maybe they were sort of due to have one go the other way. Yeah, I think that that's reasonable. And I think
00:13:19
Speaker
Every year in MLS, it seems like there's a team that goes on some kind of run at some point in the season and everybody says, oh, you don't want to play that team in the playoffs. And like, they don't, like everybody kind of knows they're not that good or they're not as good as their record would indicate. And the Sounders fans are always rightly like, yeah, I'm not worried about playing that team. I think this team is a better team. I feel like the Sounders were that team this year. Like they just overachieved for enough of the year for one reason or another.
00:13:49
Speaker
But ultimately, at the end of the day, they had some pretty serious flaws and those flaws are exploited down the stretch and especially, you know, when it when it really mattered in the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the thing that I think one of the reasons I'm not quite as frustrated is.
00:14:11
Speaker
There were building blocks this year that I feel like set the Sounders up well for the future. I think we just learned today, they have 19 players currently under contract. They declined a bunch of options. A few of those players will end up coming back if they have some free agents. But the core of this team is likely intact, and it's going to be intact probably for a couple of years.
00:14:36
Speaker
I should go back on that. There's a lot of young pieces here that are going to be around for a while, I think, are relatively young pieces. And, you know, I don't know, like we're now getting news that Rudy Diaz is making noise about forcing his way out. We don't know what's going on with Nicollet Arrow. So I suppose that does temper some expectations for next year. But, you know,
00:15:02
Speaker
I still think this is like, I liked the way the roster is built right now. I feel good about the young guys that they were able to get minutes. I think they have some flexibility this off season to do some interesting things. I mean, I'm, I'm like finding myself reasonably optimistic about the state of things right now. So we'll see. Yeah, they have, they have pieces that they can build around, like even if Nico ends up being done and even if Raul ends up leaving, um,
00:15:28
Speaker
those are obviously two huge, huge pieces, but Jordan Morris is probably not going anywhere anytime soon. Um, as well, Paulo is probably not going anywhere anytime soon. Christian will down's probably not going anywhere anytime soon. The defense, I think, especially the center back situation is extremely solid. I mean, I think that with the defense that the centers have that court in place, they're going to be competitive no matter who's who's playing an attack. So, um,
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, I'm with you. I think it's, you know, this definitely felt like the closing of a window of like the fringy, some of the fringy guys on the roster. Um, we'll see how they retool around the margins and, um, go from there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, we can maybe get into this a little bit more in the second segment about the roster itself, but, um, I,
00:16:18
Speaker
I do think that this was a fun year and even the frustrating parts, like the down the stretch was frustrating, but not in a way that was like meltdown-y.
00:16:34
Speaker
And I don't know, I guess I'll take that for like, if this, if this is what represents a down year for the sounders 60 points plus 20 gold difference, but you go out in the first round. I mean, I guess I'll take it. Uh, and I, and I will say that.
00:16:50
Speaker
The way the playoffs have gone this year, I don't know that the Sounders failure stands out as particularly bright. New England Revolution go out in the, in their first playoff game, which they just played amazingly last night. Is that right? Last night. Yeah. It's pretty well.
00:17:08
Speaker
And they go down in penalties to New York City FC. The Rapids lose their Thanksgiving Day game to the Timbers. Sporting Kansas City blows a 1-0 lead at home against RSL and only takes one shot in the second half. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
Um, I mean, there's a lot of teams that had some pretty epic failures and yeah, like the sounders going out was a, was a kind of a funny little punchline that people were able to take some shots on for a little while, but I don't know. I don't think it was close to the worst one.
00:17:44
Speaker
I'm extremely relieved that Sporting KC didn't end up getting to use the Tamelya suplex thing as like a rallying cry for the season. Like them lifting a trophy and then making that like their avatar of their season would have
00:18:00
Speaker
really pissed me off a lot, so I'm glad that that didn't happen. That's, you know, some comfort, I suppose. Some comfort, some comfort. Well, why don't we call this a segment? We're going to come back, take some questions, and I think we'll probably dig into the state of the roster, the whole Raul Rui Diaz situation, and everything else. You are listening to Nos Ariatas.
00:18:28
Speaker
Full Pool Wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nota Adieira since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:18:48
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing. And three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com. Welcome back to NOS Audio Disc. All right, so
00:19:12
Speaker
Lots of questions or not a lot of questions, but a few questions, but they all are setting us up for longer discussions, I think. So let's just jump right into this, Aaron. All right. Um, we're in the window. Got there we go. Uh, our first question is from SP goes, do you think the sounders would have been better off playing four, two, three, one against RSL given the players available? So I don't really, uh, and I,
00:19:42
Speaker
I can only
Post-Playoff Reflections
00:19:43
Speaker
imagine that, I mean, you know, you think about who they played. And if we assume that really ideas didn't start for health reasons, which seems very plausible, we know Alex rolled on, didn't start for health reasons. Uh, we know Nico Ledero didn't start for health reasons. Uh, so, you know, like you take those three players out, all players were on the field at the end of the game.
00:20:08
Speaker
but who probably couldn't have started under any circumstance or I suppose that's not true. Really it is probably could have started, but you would have probably been limited to 60 minutes. So would you have rather had him for the first 60 or the last 75? I suppose there's an argument to be made that maybe he was more likely to score if he had started, but this is about the formation. And if we just, if we, so we're starting from the point that
00:20:36
Speaker
Uh, those players weren't going to be healthy. I think really what you're talking about is maybe moving rolled on up a line and inserting Josh attention in place of Shane O'Neill. And I don't know, I'm, I'm having a hard time really buying that using and keeping in mind that this would have been the first time the centers had started with that formation all year.
00:21:03
Speaker
I like, I don't think Josh attention for Shane O'Neill moves the needle in a way that like really affects the outcome. Yeah. I mean, I think that a 4, 2, 3, 1 is not inherently more attacking than the.
00:21:20
Speaker
five, two, three, whatever it is. Three, four, two, one. Three, four, two, one, I guess you could call it. Because I think it's fair to say that Ro and Smith were both in the field and not even nominally went backs. But I think in hindsight, knowing that RSL was so completely uninterested in attacking that they didn't have a shot,
00:21:41
Speaker
that they broke 538's expected goals model because it assumes that you will take at least one shot to assign a value. Then yeah, like maybe you're so completely unconcerned with defense that you can nominally play two center backs and push Ro and Smith as high as they were in a 4-2-3-1 and just throw it all forward. And maybe that makes a difference, but that's not a reasonable expectation to have going into the game.
00:22:11
Speaker
You know, I, like, I don't think any coach expects their opponents to bunker quite so much. And more importantly, like, I don't think it was a tactical issue with the Sounders. The Sounders created chances. They had 21 shots. Um, they had a lot of shots in the box. They weren't necessarily great chances, but it was cause they weren't executing. Like the final pass wasn't there. The finishing was bad. And that's not something that a tactical change is kind of fixed. That's just more execution. And, um,
00:22:40
Speaker
I just, I just don't see it making that much of a difference. I mean, I think the reality is that the sounders were bad. Um, on the day they were bad in a, in a formation that they've, that they're comfortable in, that they've had a lot of success with, um, with, you know, a lot of the same personnel that has been really good this year. And they just shut
CONCACAF Champions League Prioritization
00:22:59
Speaker
the bed and on, you know, a bad day to do that. Yeah. I like, I don't know. I know that it feels good to,
00:23:09
Speaker
You know, I mean, I don't know, maybe Mayo Leo Chu could have affected this game a little bit more. I'm willing, I'm open to that possibility. Um, you know, there's definitely some changes that I'm, I'm open to the possibility could have, could have changed things. It wasn't like they necessarily needed a lot different, but I don't know. Like, you know, Rudy has played 75 minutes and
00:23:35
Speaker
his best chance and the closest he came to scoring was like on an absolute like wild shot in real time. I didn't even see him take it because I wasn't really expecting a shot to come out of that. And, you know, Lidero didn't really have much.
00:23:57
Speaker
Roll Dawn was dealer Alex. Roll on was dealing with an issue. It was, you know, it's just like, I don't know. I don't, I don't think the formation, I certainly don't think the formation was the biggest problem. All right. Well, uh, this is from Motley 69. Did you ever think you'd be rooting for RSL two weeks in a row?
00:24:25
Speaker
Um, I feel like I'm not, I'm not playing along with the spirit of the question because I think it's a fair question, but I don't care what happens anymore after the sounders get knocked out. Like I genuinely don't, I don't want the timbers to win and I'm glad that SKC is not winning. So I guess in that sense, I am for them, but like, I'm not going to find out what this war was until the next day, probably. Okay. I'll watch, I'll probably watch the MLS cup, but I just like,
00:24:54
Speaker
I, this season felt like it went on for like 25 years. And, um, I'm not, we were talking about this before the show and like, obviously we both would have preferred the Sounders to win, but I think there was a sense of like, well, you know, life gives you lemons, right? Like, yeah, I mean, I think.
00:25:15
Speaker
I would have been like, if, if they weren't going to win MLS cup, which I'm frustratingly now you see the board out there and I could see them doing it, but if they weren't going to win MLS cup, I'm happy to have like three weekends back. Yeah.
00:25:33
Speaker
And I think there's something to be said for them getting a little bit extra recuperation time before CCL. Yeah. I mean, time will tell, right? But I don't think that can hurt to have like a real off
Freddy Montero's Future
00:25:46
Speaker
season. And so, you know, fingers crossed on that one. But yeah, I will say that I understand people were really mad at David Ochoa
00:26:00
Speaker
at the game. And I found his antics to be pretty annoying. I mean, he was literally delaying the game. Like every time he touched the ball, I think for the literally the entire game, I'm pretty sure he was like falling on the ball in like the eighth minute. And that's annoying. But like, I don't know. I don't like I have a heart. I don't think I can hate RSL like they like
00:26:30
Speaker
I'm not totally surprised that I'm rooting for them, in part because it's fun watching chaos unfold. But I think as much loving as this whole kind of Pablo Mastroini mastermind sort of thing, I don't know about that.
00:26:50
Speaker
he went in with an altered defensive mindset against the Sounders. Don't tell me, like I read somewhere that zero shots is actually impressive or more impressive than like, I think what it was was taking zero shots is more
Fun Listener Questions
00:27:08
Speaker
impressive than not putting any shots on frame because with zero shots, you're not even trying to shoot. And I'm like, come on, like,
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah. It's what are we, what are we praising here? It's, uh, it's, it's, I find much rainy to be kind of funny, like, because he's, he's clearly not a good coach. I think he's probably good at some stuff and maybe he'll develop into a good coach at some point, but, uh,
00:27:42
Speaker
he's not good as it stands. He's got enough talent on that team and they're pretty well drilled defensively that they could shit house their way to the MLS Cup. And I do think the kind of stuff that Ochoa pulls is extremely frustrating in the moment, but is also so much less
00:28:07
Speaker
Like it's not like real scumbag stuff. Like it's just the shit housing, like, and you know, I can live with that. Um, I can definitely live with that sort of shit house dream more than body slamming and players. Exactly. Or, you know, like dangerous tackles or whatever. Like people want to put him in the same category as like, you know, Roger Espinoza or something. And like, no, it's not, nobody's going to get hurt by David Ochoa. And he wants to shush the crowd.
00:28:35
Speaker
You, he made one save in the penalty show. Good for him. You get to talk your shit when you, when you win the game, like that's kind of, that's kind of the way it goes. And, uh, I don't really think that that was the different, his time wasting was a difference between winning and losing that game. So, um, so the next one is from D underscore heights. Uh, don't want to sound harsh, but got some Lidero questions. Do we need him? Is he done? Would he play for a non DP spot? Is he a future coach?
00:29:05
Speaker
Uh, well, I'll start with, I don't think like, I wouldn't get your hopes up that he's going to renegotiate his contract this year. He's owed probably something like 2.7, $2.8 million. I don't think he's gonna just volunteer a one and a half million dollar pay cut because he feels bad that he didn't play that much last year. So like, I think we can rule out the possibility of him playing.
00:29:33
Speaker
on a TAM contract this year. Now will he play is maybe a little bit more of a relevant question. I suspect that he's going to do everything he can to play. I don't think he's ready to retire.
00:29:50
Speaker
whether his knee is ready for him to retire or not is, is maybe a separate issue. But, um, I mean, I think it's a real concern. I think it's a real concern as to whether or not, uh, he can come back and what kind of fitness he can, like if he can stay healthy for a whole year, I mean, this is the third time in about 18 months that he's had surgery, I think to repair the same issue that's been going on with his knee.
00:30:16
Speaker
Uh, he's had a fair amount of rest during that time. I mean, I, it, I guess it's worth noting that he did play all of 2020 essentially, uh, essentially injury free. It was an abbreviated season, but he, you know, he got through it. So maybe, you know, maybe, and that, and that was after taking a bunch of time off at the start of, of the start of the year. So like maybe.
00:30:40
Speaker
He's able to do that now. I don't know. No concern. I would say that it's a real concern.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah, he's a weird one because he was so reliable for so long up until the claim that he wasn't. And like you said, he did get through all last year without any major injuries, but it was abbreviated, but there was also a ton of picture congestion towards the end of the year, which you would think would put a lot of stress on him. So I'm hopeful that having some actual time off, some actual rehab time will do him good and that he's able to come back
00:31:17
Speaker
uh and be effective again next year um as the because as the team is currently constructed like they they do need him um they were able to to have pretty good success this year without him but i don't think you can depend on that i don't think you can depend on you know replacing that kind of production and and replacing you know doing that well without a dp spot um for the reasons we talked about the first segment it's just it's hard to do that um and so
00:31:45
Speaker
They need a player of his caliber, I think to really be competitive, um, to be true MLS cup competitors. I think, um, I think vintage Nico Ledero probably helps us win that game. Yeah, you got to think vintage Nico Ledero. I think they win the game with vintage Nico Ledero. Yeah. I think that all of those final passes that weren't getting connected,
00:32:09
Speaker
he makes at least three or four of those final passes and get connected. And one of those 21 shots goes in because it's a better chance. And I guess getting back to the formation question, if Nico is 100% ready to go, I think that's probably the thing that causes you to go back to a four, three, two, one, or a four, two, three, one, uh, more than
00:32:37
Speaker
anything else because he's going to be the most effective as that kind of like number 10, which the current formation doesn't really use a number 10. I think he could potentially be effective in this formation, but like Nico at his height is going to be better in a four, two, three, one, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, I do think there's a good chance he's going to be a coach in the future though. He just seems to have that.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah. He seems to have that with consumer right kind of leadership qualities. He has a good tactical mind. Um, he seems to have expressed an interest in doing it. I think most importantly, so yeah. Uh, this is from Trivia Lex. How all in should the centers go for CCL seems like the window is closing and that's the last big fish trophy. The team has to land. Well, um, so after, after the RSL game,
00:33:33
Speaker
I think I said that that should be their top priority for next year because I do think the window of the score is closing. And I think that the talent is good enough that they can go all in on CCL early in the year and make up the time and not wear their guys out and probably still going to the playoffs pretty comfortably.
00:33:59
Speaker
But I think the way the rest of the offseason goes is going to be a huge factor. You know, if the Sounders can't keep Raul, then I think you have to you have to change course. Yeah, you're probably not going to win the CCL without Raul, you know, if they find out that Nico isn't going to be able to be back and fully healthy.
00:34:19
Speaker
I think you probably also have to change course a little bit. So I think everything else being equal, if they're going into the season, everybody's healthy, everybody's ready to go. They've made the couple of roster additions that they have the room to make in the off season. It should be the top priority. Absolutely. I think it should because ultimately,
00:34:39
Speaker
The regular season doesn't matter too much with this playoff format as long as you're a good enough team. Obviously, you still want to have a good regular season as much as you can.
00:34:50
Speaker
you can still make a lot of noise in the playoffs, even as the seventh place team, apparently. And I think if you're not going after CCL and you don't feel like you have a realistic chance to go deep into the competition, then no, you should always prioritize the regular season. But I think the Sounders team, with everybody healthy and ready to go, could definitely make a run at it.
00:35:13
Speaker
Um, but I'm not feeling super optimistic that that's going to be the case at this point. So I think, yeah, it's, it's very early in the off season. So I don't want to, I don't want to, I'm going to choose to be optimistic about this off season. I'm going to choose to believe that, you know, I'll put it this way. If the Sounders are able to bring back most of their team,
00:35:38
Speaker
I don't see any reason why they shouldn't like be primarily focused on CCL. And, you know, they did that in 2020 ended up not working out in terms of the CCL run, but I think they made decisions that ended up setting up up well for the future anyway. So like, if they come into this off season with a similar perspective, I don't, I think that's a great idea.
00:36:08
Speaker
Um, so the next one is from the desert Pope at what price point would Vincent Johnson actually make sense? I, you know, I'll, I'll admit here. I have never seen the guy play like literally. I don't think I've ever seen him play at all. Uh, I don't watch a ton of Premier League. I don't watch a ton of League of MX.
00:36:30
Speaker
I, you know, just going off of everything I've heard, I would say like, if for some reason you can get him on a loan where he's not a DP and it's sort of like an option to buy a situation, sure, why not? But like, if you're going to pay a transfer fee for a guy who
00:36:51
Speaker
hasn't really been productive outside of one really amazing season. And in the Netherlands, I like, I don't, that doesn't strike me as a move. The sounders are likely to make and for good reason. Yeah. I think that if you can get him like at it, like a Victor Rodriguez, non DP edition sort of maybe, you know, that makes sense. Cause I do think he's probably an upgrade over what you have now with that backup board spot. But, um, yeah, I don't.
00:37:21
Speaker
I don't know if he's really worth much more than that. Yeah. I like, yeah. He's someone where if you were gambling on like you're kind of like a buy low situation. Sure. Why not? But like, if you got to pay anything like what, like I'm Monterey paid $9 million for them and then they're paying them almost $3 million a year. Like that would be crazy if the centers are going to try to
00:37:51
Speaker
Like there's a lot of players out there that they could probably get for less money that have much more impressive resumes. Yeah. It's also even worth noting too, about that, that one crazy season he had in the Netherlands is that I think that odds that, uh, Aquamart team that year was just like obscene. Like they, like, I don't think it was like a just him thing. I think they scored like a ridiculous number of goals if I remember correctly. So even that one year might've been misleading.
00:38:21
Speaker
All right. Well, this one's from Nick Yasinski about Montero.
00:38:28
Speaker
The option wasn't picked up. Was it because of his salary? Was it because the centers weren't interested in, or is there some other complex reason as far as like, you know, uh, kind of game theory type stuff going on there? Do you happen to have any theories as to what's going on with Freddie Monteiro's option not being picked up? I think there's, there is, it's entirely possible that there's some game theory type stuff going on there where, uh, um,
00:38:56
Speaker
They don't want to pay what his option is because his option was like maybe a little unrealistic for what his production was. And that was done purposefully to make sure that if he wants to stay where he can. I think I saw you guys talking about this and that Senator Slack. Yeah, I, I propose, I suggested the possibility that
00:39:18
Speaker
He signed a contract with a second year option that would make him unattractive to other teams, knowing that there was an expansion draft coming up. And if he wants to come back to the Sounders, he's willing to come back to the... I don't think it's crazy to think that he's willing to come back to the Sounders
00:39:41
Speaker
And the Sounders are perfectly happy to have him back as long as it's for, you know, like this bargain basement price, but he's only willing to play for the Sounders at that price. And he's not willing to pay play for anyone else and anything close. I mean, the guy was making.
00:39:56
Speaker
was a DP two year, like in Vancouver in 2020. So like, this was a big, like it can't be overstated how big of a contract, uh, hit he took last year. So I, I have to assume and I, and I, my understanding is he's building a house here. Like I think he's, he's mentally here now. And I got to think the sounders would be willing to bring it back. They're just not going to pay him, you know, $500,000 or whatever.
00:40:25
Speaker
Like, I don't know what his option was for, but I would not be at all surprised to see him back in Seattle next year. Yeah. I mean, that's the phone makes sense to me because I, I think Freddie is, is pretty clearly past the purely money, notivated portion of his career. And he was plenty productive last year for, you know, for where it was at. I mean, for where he was at, he was insanely productive. He had seven goals and six assists, I think, and just paid $82,000.
00:40:54
Speaker
That's, that's not bad. Um, you know, even, I mean, if he's willing to, even if they are bringing in somebody like Johnson, if he's willing to be like your third forward and barely ever play, that's still, and that's a streaming deal. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing is like, when he signed, the idea was that he was behind not just Rui Diaz, but he was behind.
00:41:20
Speaker
Uh, Bruin and the expectation was that Ladera was going to be healthy and all of a sudden. Right. You know, he ended up playing 1500 minutes. Like I don't think anyone thought he was going to play 1500 minutes. No, no. And starting the, you know, starting the playoff game as a number nine and playing more defense this year than I think is every other collective season that he played for the Sounders. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
00:41:50
Speaker
So the next one is from our good friend, Tim Foss, which Sounders player would be the best to go on vacation with? I mean, Nico Benizde is already off in some tropical locale. Uh, he seems like he would be fun to party with. I think so. Ro would, would probably, you could do like a lot of wine tours. Yeah. I mean, I suppose I should say Will Bruin. He seems like he would be fun to. Yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
He seems like the most like person that you could possibly end up going on vacation left. Right. Yeah. Um, the role Dawn brothers seem like there's a lot of guys on this team. I think that would be fun to vacation with. I feel like every play, like I don't think that there is a unlikable player on the sounders.
00:42:39
Speaker
Like every other sound, most other sounders teams have had guys that I was like, I don't like that guy. That guy seems like he sucks, but I don't, I can't think of anybody. I wouldn't say who they were if I felt that way about somebody, but I would absolutely say that the other guys on this team that seem like they suck, but I, they all seem, they all seem good. Yeah. Uh, trying to think of there's someone I'm like really obvious that maybe I'm failing to think of, but yeah, like,
00:43:06
Speaker
It seems like a good, I think that's one of the bummers about why this, it did feel like this was a real cohesive locker room. And there was a lot of like, if you believe in all that intangible stuff, which I think like, how can you not to some degree, like it felt like a team that was like playing for each other and doing all that kind of stuff. And I think that kind of made the early exit even more frustrating.
00:43:36
Speaker
Well, this one's from Nate Bowling. He says, where should we be on a one to five panic scale regarding movie ideas? Five being holy fuck the world is ending. Also, how's Aaron taking Tacoma life?
00:43:47
Speaker
Um, well, I personally, on the Rudy scale, um, I'm at about a three, um, because I think that he probably does want to raise. And, um, I think he's probably playing hardball to some extent. I am really skeptical of some of the stuff coming out. I don't think that he is.
00:44:08
Speaker
maybe mean as petulant as it's being made out to be in some corners. I think that there is probably a great deal of media interest in him coming back to Mexico. And I think that you should always keep that in mind when you're reading some of the reports coming out of Mexico. So yeah, I think that there's a very good, I mean, I think it's completely plausible that he can end up leaving, but I don't think it's evident.
00:44:34
Speaker
And Tacoma is great. There are definitely, now that the world is kind of opening back up and stuff like that, I'm getting to explore a little bit more. At the same time, there are definitely some things I'm finding myself missing about Seattle, but on the balance, I'm very happy with the move so far. I am, I'll say I am a
00:44:56
Speaker
or on Rui Diaz because it sounds more dramatic. But. Oh, only because I think there's a possibility that he's made a like he's he's genuinely frustrated and he's like willing to leave on principle, maybe. But I don't know, I don't think that's
00:45:25
Speaker
Long-term, I don't think that's the worst thing for the sounders, but short-term that is going to create a big problem for their CCL chances. Cause I don't like, even if they get a transfer fee for them, it's not going to be astronomical. And I kind of doubt they'll be able to get a like for like replacement for him before the season starts.
00:45:48
Speaker
I definitely feel like if Raul leaves, it really has to make you rethink some other things on the roster. Um, and whether or not it makes sense to keep some guys around, you know, for as long as you were expecting to. So, uh, the next one is from BT Weber. Uh, what dollar figure do you think we will need to get to in order for Raul to feel respected? I think you probably need to make him the highest paid player on the team.
00:46:18
Speaker
which would put them at like two, eight, somewhere between two, eight and 3 million. Like if I'm the sounders, I think I would probably feel okay about paying him that. I don't know how many years I would guarantee it. I think I would probably give them maybe two years guaranteed and then have a third option year. Yeah.
00:46:41
Speaker
That seems like the standard and the luxe deal. Um, yeah, like I don't, I can't imagine them going over $3 million. I can't imagine them guaranteeing him like maybe three years guaranteed at the high end. If your state, maybe if you're like lower, a little lower salary or something, but right. I mean, even the breathless, uh, tweets about, you know, him wanting Carlos available money are saying like two years, I think guaranteed. So I don't know. I,
00:47:11
Speaker
I think it probably gets done, but I do agree that it's more dramatic and more fun to say if they were higher on the scale. So I'm going to change mine to a five. All right. This one is from our good friend, Dave Clark. And I'm glad this one's for you because I don't know that I could have answered this effectively. Brute IPA versus cold IPA.
00:47:35
Speaker
I love a cold IPA. Brewed IPAs are good. The champagne IPAs, I like those a lot. They had a moment where I liked them quite a bit. I don't think I like them as much now because I'm really more, I'm entering my lager years, I think. I'm definitely entering my lager years. That's so good, man. They're so good.
00:48:02
Speaker
And, you know, like a cold IPA is a nice little halfway point between
00:48:08
Speaker
between a lager and an IPA. It's nice and hoppy. I went up to Potlatch Brewery up in Hoodsport. Had their cold. Our friend Cody. Our friend Cody, correct. Yeah. And had his cold IPA. Fantastic beer. Drinks very much like a lager. Is strong like an IPA, which is nice. I highly recommend getting up there. But yeah, cold IPA is good style. One of the better
00:48:38
Speaker
developments, I would say me IPA landscape over the past few years. Because I really I just like unless it's like a super special occasion or limited release or something. I'm just I'm over the 9%
00:48:53
Speaker
You know, triple high, just can't, you know, can't do it anymore. I got it. I got it. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm definitely starting to find myself gravitating towards like six and below. Yeah. Uh, pretty like, like really try it. Like I, I, I had to open to Jolly Roger the other day, which is at nine.
00:49:14
Speaker
So one of the things is that Cody told me when I was up there is that the later in the year it goes, the higher the ABB on the Jolly Roger goes, which I did not know, but in hindsight explains some things about yours past. Interesting. But yeah, it's, I, I love Jolly Roger. It might be my favorite beer, but yeah, man, I can't, I used to be able to like put them back and I can't, I cannot do that anymore. The number of times I'm able to drink,
00:49:44
Speaker
more than two beers these days is really, really low. Yeah. And I always feel it the next day. And if I'm going to have two beers, they better both be like in that six or lower range. Yes. Uh, I can, I can do more than two, but I definitely feel the next day. And, uh, I dunno, I just like, if I'm,
00:50:15
Speaker
if I'm going to drink more than two beers, at least only one of them can be stronger than like that six or six or so percent. Cause it's just, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to go to bed at 9 PM on Saturday. Like that's, and if I have like, you know, three, 10% lactose stouts or whatever, I'm going to, I'm going to go to bed at 10 PM on a Saturday and you know, I don't really want to do that. So yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
But yeah, cold IPA, cold IPA is the answer. Great beer. I have to start looking for some cold IPAs. How was potlatch since we're on that? Oh, it was great. Great beer. Cool little spot. Yeah, it's a fun little road trip out there. Was Cody there? Cody was there. Cody was there. I went with his college roommate, who I've been friends with since middle school. And yeah, so it was great.
00:51:13
Speaker
Good beer, fun trip, lots of cool hiking around there. Definitely how is it in? It's in Hoodsport. Yeah, so if you're coming from Seattle, or from Tacoma, you can go over the Narrows and go over that way. If you're coming from the South, you can come up on 101. Yeah, it's a nice little trip, nice little diversion. And the beer is generally pretty low A-B-E, so you can...
00:51:43
Speaker
have two before you. Well, maybe one of these days when I'm out on that side of the peninsula, Oh yeah. That's out of the sound. Maybe I'll get over there. Yeah. If you're on that side of sound, it's D you gotta do it. You gotta do it. Well, that's a good place to call this. Uh, I don't know. This is usually the time of year where we no longer are sure how often we're going to be recording. Uh,
00:52:11
Speaker
We try to come back and talk whenever there's news and I suspect there'll be some news, but if not, hope everyone has a good new year. This has been a really fun season. I know we didn't record as often as we had intended to, but we tried to do our thing and it's been a crazy year. I think everyone can understand that.
00:52:35
Speaker
I think we did better this year than we did last year. I do too. I do too. I like to think that at least we were more fun to listen to this year than we were last year.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, I would hope so. And yeah, we might have some cool stuff coming down the line, so. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, we'll hopefully have some stuff worth announcing and we're talking about. If you're curious, we don't know what's going on with Yacht-Con. We are contemplating a few different things, but there's a lot going on in the world that we're kind of trying to figure out. Yeah, we don't want to have OmichronCon. Right, exactly.
00:53:15
Speaker
Exactly. A lot of things that are kind of out of our control, I guess, is a good way of putting it. But I think it's fair to say we'll do something at some point. Yes. Just might be at a different time and it might be, we'll see. Right. But anyway, thanks. It was fun, Aaron. And it was good to have him lick it around again, even if it's only
00:53:37
Speaker
putting this together in post-production, but it's been wonderful having Full Bull Lines with us again for a whole year. It's kind of crazy, hopefully.
00:53:49
Speaker
people are still hitting that subscribe button with them, because it's a great service. But yeah, it was a fun year. I hope people had fun. And I guess we will catch you the next time we catch you. And in the meantime, I'm Jeremiah Shan signing off for Lick It and Aaron. This is No Saudi At This. And remember, you'll never yet alone.
00:54:19
Speaker
Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Roll On, Columbia Roll On. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On, Columbia Roll On.
00:54:57
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!