Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back, Twinkies. hi It's actually been a while. It's actually, you know, I checked this and it's actually not been as long of a while as it seems. but I think the last episode was like the 12th of July.
Speaker: oh good. So we're doing better than we think because I feel like it it feels like it's been like two months, but- Yeah, I feel like we keep forgetting to record. And then it's funny because like in the last month since we last recorded, um my whole Vanderpump Rules like first watch thing has happened. So people have been, for the for the first time ever, asking about the podcast.
Speaker: Yeah. Because they're like, are you going to discuss this on the podcast? Which it's not really in our original theme, but I think we've now just sort of, you know, we've expanded the theme. Well, why don't you like, okay, for like anyone who I guess is listening and like maybe doesn't like follow you on Twitter, do you want to like give them a brief like rundown of like how this whole situation has all come about? Why I completely changed my brand. Yeah, basically. Why I did like life's life a bit, you can always choose a new one, um which is my, would be my housewife saying if I had one, as you said.
Speaker: Um, life's a bit. You can always choose a new one. um or you can always commit to a new one. Um, yeah, so I guess what happened was, is just, like, randomly, out of nowhere, I read a New York, this is, like, three months ago, I read it, or maybe two months ago, I read a New York Times article about, actually, I should back up you even further. i should be really annoying. So I watched reality TV when I was growing up.
Speaker: So like with my family. So like when we were still back in the old days when there was like stuff on at a certain time, we would watch like, as a family, we would watch like Joe Millionaire or like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, like the game show, or we would watch like...
Speaker: I would even argue like Wheel of Fortune can sort of be a proto reality TV type thing. We would watch, we watched The Apprentice. We did. um We watched, um you know, all those shows. And then when I was a teen on the couch, I watched like the MTV stuff. So I watched like,
Speaker: Laguna Beach and like early Jersey Shore. i did not know until like last week that Jersey Shore has like 25 seasons and has been going up to today. yeah um But like when I was like, you know, 16, watched it.
Speaker: um Anyway, and then like I went to college, like liberal arts college, and I decided I was like too good for reality TV because I was like, oh, I've discovered like real film now. And like you know and so for like basically the last almost 20 years, because it's been almost 20 years since I started almost twenty years since i started college um I haven't really watched like any reality TV unless I was like over at a friend's house and they had it on. So like I've seen like the odd sampling. like
Speaker: I've seen a few like Real Housewives of Atlanta episodes or whatever just because like I was at a friend's house at some point and they had it on in the background and I watched it. But like I haven't committed or like chosen to watch any sort of reality TV on my own for like two decades.
Speaker: um And then I was reading the New York Times. I was at the end of um a certain like you know job I was doing, and I was really stressed out. And the New York Times was like talking about Love Island.
Speaker: And i was like, oh, I wonder what this is. Like, whatever. I'm just so curious. So I, like, watched maybe, like, two episodes. And I was, like, kind of, like, hooked. And then I, like, went to work. and some of my coworkers were watching it. So then I was like, oh, maybe this is could be, like, a social outlet for me. um And I came in, like, mid-season. So as people who know about Love Island know, there's, like, a huge amount of episodes. So I had, like...
Speaker: 20 episodes to catch up on to get like in real time with everyone else. um So I just did. i just watched all 20 of them. And then I was like in real time. um And I had like the Love Island app and whatever. And Long and the short of it is, like when i when I really get get into something, I like kind of just like commit super hard. So then I was like um kind of sad when Love Island ended, and I knew Ariana Maddox because she hosts the um ah Love Island, and I'm actually seeing her in conversation tonight. Talk about committing to a new bit really hard. Yeah.
Speaker: um with my friend. But anyway, um yeah, so i someone was like the best reality TV that's out there is the first couple seasons of Vanderpump Rules. um Someone had said that to me.
Speaker: and I was like, okay, let's see you know? and I started it and like, I would say for like an episode or two, I was like, what is so special about this? But then the magic struck and I like understood why these opening seasons were considered so like interesting, you know?
Speaker: um And I got really hooked. So that's so that's that. um If you don't know what Vanderpump Rules is, I guess I'll just quickly give um like a quick synopsis of the basic premise. like I think the reason people like it so much is like it's a little bit different than a lot of reality TV out there, especially a lot of Bravo TV, because it's not focused on the lifestyles of the rich and the famous. Yeah. It's like these ah sort of working class LA strivers working at this restaurant called Sur, which actually, I'm not even making this up, stands for Sexy Unique Restaurant. yeah um And it all started, which I'm sure we'll get into because Bicky likes Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, but it all started because...
Speaker: Lisa Vanderpump owns Sur, and one of the waitresses at Sur had an affair with one of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills husbands. And that was kind of the beginning.
Speaker: Yeah. is it It was interesting listening to you kind of give like your background on your history. Yeah, what's your background? um and Mine's kind of... There are some parallels, but it's a little bit different. I feel like I...
Speaker: I didn't really go through the stage of like thinking I was too good for reality TV. I just kind of went through a stage of keeping it secret from people that i watched it. um Because i kind of I grew up when like Big Brother UK was like really popular over here. um So I grew up watching Big Brother. um And then when I went to university for the first time, because I went twice because you got kicked out, um I made friends with this girl when I was living in London and she was obsessed with like Laguna Beach and the Hills. And we would watch it like together in her bedroom on her laptop. And that was the first time that I became like really emotionally invested in like the lives of so reality TV stars because we were both absolutely hooked on it.
Speaker: And then sort of a few years later, I moved back home to live with my parents for a little bit. and my my dad is like a secret reality TV obsessive as well. And he watches like the gayest shit ever. um he like My dad's like a very sort of straight-laced conservative guy, um but he would watch like um Millionaire Matchmaker and fucking like Married at First a Sight, like UK, US s and Australian, all of them. um so when i was like at home living with them i kind of got back into the swing of like watching it and i i've always like i've always watched housewives i think but i i remember i think it's around it's like season two or three of beverly hills when they kind of do the sort of backdoor pile of the vanderpump they do like a extended episode of real housewives where it's like an hour of housewives and then it kind of it sort of seamlessly merges into the first episode of Vanderbump Rules because you've got the housewives are having this party at Sir, and then it sort of switches perspectives. It's like a sort of upstairs downstairs thing. And I remember watching that and thinking like,
Speaker: Okay, I'll give this a shot. And I think I watched that episode and maybe the second episode, and I just couldn't get into it at all. And I think, I don't know what it was about it, but just like some think about it just didn't grab me. And then it was only really when you had decided that you were going to watch it, I was already doing like ah a re-watch of the first few seasons of Beverly Hills, and I was kind of getting to the point where they do that sort of crossroads, and I thought, oh, well, maybe I'll just start watching it as well. um So i was I've always been sort of like a season behind you as you've been re-watching it, but it's been...
Speaker: Yeah, the the first couple of seasons, like, particularly, i i definitely understood how you got hooked on it. Yeah, I'm a little pissed at you because you have just you have done this, like, skip that I wish I could do at this point. Like, you stopped season six and then went all the way to Scandaval. A part of me, like, is a little bit regretful that, like...
Speaker: I have committed so hard to this bit that now I've gotten all these new followers who really want me to finish, which is so silly because like no one really cares. like If I stopped tweeting about this tomorrow, I'd probably get a couple of DMs and then it would be okay.
Speaker: But for some reason, I'm like, I gotta give the fans... what they want. Actually, I've gotten a crazy amount of GMs, which is really sweet. So if you do listen to this because, you know, um you've been following along with me, um I do appreciate it It has been really nice. is This is like literally literally the only time I've gotten into something on Twitter where people were not, like, mean and gatekeepy about it. Like, in fact, I found that Vanderpump Rules fans specifically, and Bravo fans in general, like, really want you to get into it. Because um i think they realized what, like, I finally realized, which is that, like, there is kind of, like, artistic value to this stuff. um And I say that unironically. And I think that like, I don't know if you feel this way, Vicky, but like, i think it's difficult to, for people to conceptualize of it as having artistic value because they're like, well, it's reality TV. So like the people don't really know that they're making art, but I've kind of come to this conclusion that like the people on the TV itself, like the characters in the show,
Speaker: or whatever you want to call them, the people in the show are sort of like muses, but like the producers actually are sort of like artists because, you know, every it's funny that people like sort of make fun of reality TV and call it trashy and bad and like not real, but then they're like, they refuse to think of it as like a constructed product.
Speaker: But it's like both things can't be true. Like if it is a constructed product, then like maybe you should evaluate it as like a cultural product, you know? Yeah, it definitely feels like there's been kind of a a shift, like I would say over the past few years in terms of like how people sort of look at feel like it's become more socially acceptable to sort of become a be like a a Bravo fan or whatever, but like, yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, it was interesting because um we you did like a space like last week where you were talking to a friend of the pod, DJ Pool House, and some other people about like the show. And i found it interesting. I think it was Pool House was saying that like it's kind of that kind of like...
Speaker: I don't know, when you're watching it, it kind of mirrors the way that people behave online, where you're sort of like, you're projecting like an avatar of yourself. Like it's, it does that whole sort like real, not real sort of thing. Like I have no problem when I'm talking about these shows, like referring to them as characters, because do kind of view them as characters. And it's this kind of constructed sort narrative that you're following. So I don't know what it is.
Speaker: I definitely, I definitely think there's artistic merit to Yeah, and you can say that it's, like, bad art, I think. I think that's fine. Like, you can, like, evaluate this. I would say is pop pop it's art. Yeah, it it is it's popular culture. And you can certainly say, like, I think you could definitely argue very easily that it's, like, exploitive and, like, maybe, like, bad and, like, bad for the people doing it, bad for the people watching it. I mean, I think those are arguments that, like, people can pretty easily make but like i think you have to take it seriously like you can't just like dismiss it as like having zero um you know like zero interesting like like there are interesting things to say about it i mean at the end of the day like in america like we have like
Speaker: basically a reality TV. We do. We have a reality TV president. like Kim Kardashian has become a billionaire. like Some of these people who started in reality TV have become like really prominent citizens in our country. and like um whether you It doesn't even matter whether you think they're like bad or good. I'm like, that happened. So you have to sort of like take it seriously in the sense that like you know if you don't take it seriously, you're kind of missing a big part of like the picture of our our culture.
Speaker: That's true. I was going to say, like I think one of the reasons a lot of people have kind of latched onto Vanderpump Rules as well is because especially the first two seasons, it kind of exists in this pre-Me Too, kind of like pre-Trump era where, like I don't know, people...
Speaker: people can kind of just like behave really appallingly with like reckless abandon and people people are allowed to enjoy it. Whereas now I think sort of there's a tendency to sort of like not be able to sort like, I don't know. I feel like they wouldn't,
Speaker: You can see when you watch the show through, like there's a point where like the the way that the characters, or if you want to call them that, are allowed to behave sort of like shifts. And I think there's a kind of nostalgia for that kind of era when the first sort two seasons took place. um like For better or for worse, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I think i think people people kind of want to latch on to that kind of show because I don't think they're really making it like that anymore. I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, they literally can't. like I watched three episodes of this newest season of Vanderpump Rules um on the plane when I was on a plane recently because, you know, whatever, I was like already in my Vanderpump watch and I was just like, oh, i like I wonder what... I wonder what this brand new season with all these new people is going to be like.
Speaker: So I just put it on because I had a couple hours. um And I watched three episodes of it. And it like literally opens with Lisa Vanderpump saying like, times have changed. Like reality TV has changed. We have HR now. And when she says we have HR, I, she really says that. She says this, like, I think that you, I think that you're supposed to think that she's talking about Sir, which certainly does not have HR, but Sir is just really Bravo and Bravo does have h r Yeah.
Speaker: And so it's like, you know, cause Bravo is like, I mean, it's a big corporation. Like they, they have to respond to the culture that they're trying to produce products in. um But yeah, she basically she's basically opens the entire new... They're they're attempting to launch a new Vanderpump Rules like group of kids or whatever. I don't think it's going to work ultimately, but they're trying. um And I think that like you know she she felt the need to like address like it's not going to be as crazy as it used to be. you know um
Speaker: But yeah, I mean... So like let's talk about the first two seasons specifically. I think the first two seasons do two things. really well that um you know I had never really thought of reality TV as being able to do. One thing they do really well is they introduce like a central mystery yeah each to each of the two seasons. So in like the first season, the central mystery is like did Jax get a girl pregnant in Vegas and pay for her abortion while he was dating Stassi? So i would I would really say that that's like a Stassi-Jax season.
Speaker: um And then the next season, season two, it's it's did Kristen cheat on Tom Sandoval with Jax.
Speaker: um And like Stassi gets very involved in that because she you know Jax is her ex at this point. So this would mean one of her best friends like...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: obviously these things end up being true but um the tension is like how long and how far will the characters lie which i find very fascinating and it's And the truth of the matter is, which I think like the viewer and the people on the show realize, is like as long as the person lies, there's always some bit of doubt that this is true.
Speaker: um Which means that like you can't really ever hold it against them. And I think that that's like just a really interesting concept that's kind of like bled out into the culture at large. Yeah, I think one of the things I found really interesting watching it is that like, i mean, these people these people behave really badly. They do. But you do, it's it's constructed in a way that you you find yourself kind of rooting for them and liking them. And it's it's interesting, I think, seeing...
Speaker: characters that you have kind of grown attached to and like just lie so brazenly again and again and again to the point where like you kind of you kind of believe them as the viewer and then it all kind of builds up and builds up and builds up and they they both kind of do the same thing where like the truth will come out with like two episodes to go or one episode to go and um Then you have sort of the reunion where they kind of unpack the aftermath. But like um just having people that you kind of learn to trust a little bit, like lie so brazenly to the people around them and to you as the audience member, I think is like is really interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, the lying is incredible, and ah it's, like, interesting because, like, we sort of live in a world now where that's, like, just, like, kind of broadly accepted on, like, the world stage. Like, I don't really care what you think of Trump, but, like, obviously his, you know, sort of his whole MO is, like, kind of, like, what he says is true at any given time, and he's, like, able to shift that truth.
Speaker: um And that's just kind of an accepted, like... Like, that's just a fully accepted reality now. there um And I think Vanderpump Rules, that kind of, like, mirrors that, you know, in the way that, um like, they all lie so brazenly and so ah viciously. And, like, you kind of don't know if, like, you kind of don't know whether they're, like, doing it because the camera is there or if this is just like how this is just their truly their personality i don't know like especially jacks like jacks is just insane way that he will just sort lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and then when he does come out with the truth like he's he's so good at sort like spinning it back on the other person and making it their fault it's like it's
Speaker: It's master class. Yeah, let's describe Jax as a human. So like, Jax, because we could do maybe a couple of like the main characters. So like, Jax is a, when this when the series starts, he claims to be basically like, I think, 32 33. He's 10 years older than Stassi, who he's dating at the time, who's like 22 or 23.
Speaker: and These people are not that young. No, they're not like like our age. is Yeah, they're not like Hills level young. lot of them, like um they're the same age as the Hills cast. It's just that this show was made a lot later. like Yeah. Yeah, and I definitely think that like in a weird way, it's like kind of this like sequel to The Hills or whatever, in a like in a cultural sense. Because like The Hills was very much like, okay, LA quote-unquote strivers, but they're like...
Speaker: in school and they have their whole lives ahead of them and like it's all gonna work out you know what i mean like that's kind of the vibe whereas like like once you get to vanderpump rules it's like this is the reality like i would say like i would say jacks is like spencer pratt times yes thousands like he's like pure like reality tv villain but like still yeah and he's like this like sort of meathead guy he like maybe looks italian and i think i would kind of describe him as like you know he has like a Jersey Shore adjacent hotness to him. um He's a model, quote-unquote, but he clearly does a lot of like steroids and supplements and things like that.
Speaker: Yeah, and he's dating this... like you know you You kind of get the impression that he's just kind of been like at this restaurant sort of boinking through these like much younger waitresses ah for a while now. um And then like you also get this weird back reveal, which is where you're like kind of unsure of Jax's real age. Because like you find out that like at one point he was living with this gay guy in Miami. Yeah. And going by the name Jason.
Speaker: um and potentially had sort of like rent boy energy. um I don't know. And then like the other funny thing about the show in general and Jax is like eventually they just kind of like stop denying that they're all doing a lot of coke. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, because like, I think it's, it's basically impossible to edit around at a certain point. So you don't literally, well, you, you almost literally do see them snort Coke sometimes, but like eventually they just stopped trying. You don't see them literally snort it, but they eventually stopped trying to like edit out them, like wiping their noses or like moving their jaws or like all the, ah all the things that you do when you're on Coke. Um, yeah.
Speaker: So Jax is like a full-blown cokehead, as are honestly most of the cast, especially in the first two seasons. Yeah. Because they just go out like all night long, which is like, i I even feel like in my biggest partying days, like maybe in high school, i could like drink all night and... kind of like not have anything else besides drinking going on. But I feel like by the time you're in your twenty s if you're going to stay out all night, you definitely have to have some sort of upper mixed into the whole thing. Like,
Speaker: Yeah, I feel like I'd kind of, I definitely did a lot of that kind of stuff in my late teens, but I felt like by the time I'd hit 22, I was so bored of going out and partying. Like I just stopped doing it. So the idea of people like our age or like a little bit younger than us, like going out hard partying all the time. It's just crazy to me.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it's it's incredible the amount they drink. And I also think, like, obviously, like, reality TV has really, like, reigned this in. Like, for instance, Ariana Maddox, who, like, eventually is the one who became kind of a Lisa Vanderpump-esque figure. Um, she, you know, her, on her show, there's like a limit, like they can only have one drink or two drinks a night. Yeah. don't if UK love Island is like that, but American love Island has like a very specific drink limit. well we had a, I mean, this is kind of off topic. I don't watch love Island. It's never were really like appealed to me, but it's extreme. The UK one is extremely popular and we've had like so many issues with like,
Speaker: former cast members killing themselves and like all kinds of stuff that I think like I would be very surprised if they haven't like put the reins on a little bit because it used to be just like a chaotic mess, which again is I think why people really like it.
Speaker: I did read an article about how in the UK they eventually had to like they eventually like wouldn't let them smoke on TV anymore, I thought was funny. They kind of did the same thing on Big Brother. They introduced this like so smoking area, but they didn't very rarely film that.
Speaker: Yeah, because in the American one, they all vape, of course. And they were saying, like, I was watching interviews because I watched this last season. And the cast is like, yeah, you have to go, like, away from the main area completely and go stand in this, like, little corner and vape. Because you can't vape on TV, which is fun.
Speaker: So, yeah, so that's Jax. And then, like, and then Stassi is, like, the kind of er bad girl or, like, mean girl. Not bad girl, mean girl. Stassi is my favorite, like, out of the sort of core group, I think. um Like, even now, after sort of, like, cancellation, i still I still love her. I think that she's kind of, I think I relate to her because she's a bit of a spooky bitch. Like, she she always wants to do, like, crazy sort of spooky stuff for Halloween. I love all of her, like,
Speaker: sort of gory vivid descriptions of violence whenever she gets angry as somebody um i think like when when she does ultimately find out that like kristen is slapped with jack she talks about like dipping a dildo in acid and like fucking go with it and i don't know all of that stuff i'm just i'm here for all day every day um so she's definitely my favorite out of the group but Yeah, she's a rich girl from New Orleans, or at least that's, you know, whatever. All these people have their origin stories, but that's how she, like, sort of casts herself. um And she actually is a reality TV veteran. She was on The Amazing Race when she was only 12 with her family.
Speaker: um They did, um like, the family season. And then she was also on this show, which I haven't really tried hard to find, but I have tried a little bit to find, and I think it's, like, fairly, like...
Speaker: wiped. um A lot of this stuff has been wiped from like the early 2000s. But like she was on this show called Queen Bees, which apparently- Oh, it's on them it's on Amazon UK. ah um Yeah, some of this stuff is like some of this stuff, if you have a VPN, and you can switch it to UK and you can you can get it. Yeah, because I started watching House of Stasi yesterday and I was trying to find it on Amazon Prime. And as soon as I searched Stasi's name, like Queen Bees came up and was like, oh, interesting.
Speaker: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, some of this stuff has been like totally wiped. But yeah, that's yeah, you might have to play around with VPNs if you want to watch Queen Bee's. I haven't tried yet. I haven't tried to see like what it's like, but um I'm definitely gonna look into that. Yeah. Yeah. So she's, she's definitely like the sort of the ringleader of the group, I'd say for like the first like two seasons.
Speaker: Yeah, the first two seasons, she's absolutely the ringleader. um And then I think like there's a few other characters that you kind of have to mention in these ah first two seasons, because I think we should just kind of like focus on the first two seasons at this point. There's Tom Sandoval, who is in the first two seasons dating Kristen Doughty. And Tom Sandoval sort of this like...
Speaker: dandy kind of his age is like super unclear to me like I think he's supposed to be like a little bit older than the girls but you like kind of can't tell um he like is he's like this weird mix of like he's trying to be like a rocker guy but he also like is really into dandy dancing and he also models yeah they all have these kind of like ah dubious um sort of career aspirations like outside of sir like that they'll be like oh i'm an aspiring musician or i want to do this or i want to be an actress and um yeah they do kind of dip into those things a little bit but him in particular like you do get a sort Occasionally, like, they'll occasionally cut to him sort of like, making some music. I can't even remember any of any of the music that he made, despite the fact that he sort of, even up until the later seasons. I remember when he goes, du let's touch in public.
Speaker: He changes he changes his genres a lot. well um So yeah, so he's in there. In he in the first two seasons, he's dating Kristen Doty, who's my favorite, but picky hates. Yeah, she's kind of growing on me. I don't like her, but she's a necessary presence on the show, would She is fucking hilarious. Like, I don't think she's in on the joke, but she's like an incredible like reality TV person. um And she's sort of like almost in the first two seasons, like the voiceover, like she's the one who says like really cringy, but like kind of crucial stuff where she's like, at Sir, everyone is like really hot and wants to be either model, an actress or a musician. Yeah, I find her really funny because she's like the least hot the girls. I know, I know. And then she's like, and then she's like and um and every other waiter in and Hollywood just wants to work at Sir. Like she's the one who has these kind of like, I feel like she's almost the Carrie Bradshaw of the first two seasons, just in her little like voice, like in her little like confessional moments. Yeah, the Lauren Comrades. though Yeah, she's kind of giving the like, she's telling the tale, you know.
Speaker: um and then, so she yeah, her and Sandoval are together. um And then there's Katie Mahoney. And there's Tom Schwartz, who she's dating. Tom Schwartz doesn't actually work the restaurant. Yeah. if I was going to lay out who the main characters are in the first two seasons, it's Tom, Tom, and Jax. And then it's Katie, Stassi, and Kristen are easily the first, the main characters. And then there, there one other main character you have to mention who's sort of the foil, at least in the first two seasons is Shana, Shana, Shana Shay, Shana Shay. And Shana's sort of ostracized originally from the main girls because she's the one who fucked Shana.
Speaker: uh brandy from real housewives of beverly hills's husband and the and stassi decides that that's like an unforgivable um sin and sort of like so sheena's sort of like the foil in the first two seasons to stassi um and she's there too trying to sort of like ingratiate herself into this group of girls who like won't accept her in. They call them the witches of WeHo, Stassi, Kristen, and Katie. And like in the first two seasons, all the girls are extremely underweight. um This changes significantly as the seasons go on. will say on that note, like that was one of the things that I did kind of like while I was watching it because it like any of you who have like hit that, it is so hard to like maintain the body that you had in your twenty s So just like seeing... people on television kind of like get a little bit chubby. Like it's so comforting as like a an older millennial. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. They do not keep their early season bodies at all, um which is just how it goes, you know? But yeah, in the first two seasons, they're, like, all rail thin they're all They all smoke cigarettes. They all drink a ton.
Speaker: um and it's just fun to see girls with, like, kind of, like, ratty hair and, like, smoking and, like, just... I don't know. Like, they just kind of seem, like... you know, fun, but like kind of loser girls that you like would actually know. And like- And even like, cause there's, there's a few like instances where in the first couple of seasons where it like crosses over with real housewives, like they'll have the the housewives come to the restaurant for a reason. And they, they kind of like, they kind of make fun of the housewives in a way that's really endearing. Like, I think there's one moment where Stasi says something like, oh, this is why only take poor people because rich people are so annoying. And Like, I don't know, there there is that kind of class divide sort of separating them from, like, the other sort Bravo libraries, which I really like.
Speaker: Yeah, there's definitely an upstairs-downstairs thing going on with, at least in the first two seasons, like, believe like the people at Sir are believably downstairs. They only got paid $1,000 an episode for the first two seasons, and there's only 10 episodes in the season. So, I mean... it's like a year salur it does like so bad No, no, no, no. I mean, like the government list gang no like so salaryary on twelve thought but like, yeah, they were like legitimately making their money at Sir, like at that time and through these like, you know, rare but occasional like modeling gigs and stuff. um But they weren't they weren't rich. Like they were making like
Speaker: Yeah, like, you know, regular 20-something sort of, like, service industry worker salaries. um And their apartments are all, like, kind of, they are shit. And they, like, you know, they have, like, window units for air conditioning, which I know Vicky's going to be, like, in the UK, they don't even have that at all. But they live in the they live in not the cool part of LA, as in, like, weather-wise. They live in the hot part of LA. So, um yeah, they like, yeah, anyway, and they and there's kind of this cozy element to it, too, because it's like, you know, the older you get, the the harder it is to maintain this, where, it like, they all sort of live within, like, they live in West Hollywood, which is a very walkable area of l a um one of the few walkable areas, and, like,
Speaker: they all live like really close to each other. So there's sort of this like friends element to it, which they actually do reference friends kind of a lot. um But there's like this friends element to it where they're like all always able to like hang out and chill and like relax. And like they're like together a lot and they don't work that much, right? They have like, they work like 20 to 30 hours a week. So they have like a lot of time to like goof off and like. And even when they're working, they're like drinking on the job and like, Yes, they drink so much, which I feel like if anyone who's worked even briefly in the service industry like knows that that's true, um that is like a part of it, like especially as the night wears on, like you do start drinking. But yeah, they're pretty bold about it. There's times where they're holding like little literal, like they have like a giant glass of wine like sitting back by the cash register that they're gulping before they go back out. And ah you know and they're always taking like smoke breaks in the back. like for like what seems like 20 or 30 minutes. Yeah, I feel like the alley behind Sir is like a character of its own. Yeah, the alley behind Sir is certainly their central perk or whatever of like the Friends ah era. they sort
Speaker: and they yeah they just sort of I'm trying to think of the word. Yeah, like that's all the kind of setup of their like lives, like West Hollywood, Sir, the alley behind Sir. And they're all sort of intertwined in the sense that like, even though at the beginning of the series, everyone is sort of like coupled off. There's already been a lot of like history.
Speaker: You know, they've like, like they've all they've all made out with Peter, the manager. And they've all, you know, stuff. We love you. um I think like if we're going to talk a little bit about the characters as well, we should probably talk about the big pink elephant in the green Yeah, Vanderpump. The matriarch who watches over them and rules over them with an iron fist. Yeah, talk about the puppet master, Vicky. This is one of the things that was interesting for me as a Housewives viewer like coming into this show. is because So Lisa, says she's probably on...
Speaker: I don't know, like six or seven seasons of Housewives. So there there is a kind of crossover period where she's doing book shows. But I only knew her as a housewife and she was always kind of one of my favorites. She's kind of like- She's British, we should mention. she yeah she is British, which like maybe I'm slightly biased, but but I think her Britishness kind of- When I would watch Housewives, whenever she would be involved in any kind of drama, like- I would always kind of excuse her behavior because she was British because like a lot of the arguments and things that she would get into with the other women would be like being difficult to connect with or not being like open with her emotions and sort of not being a good friend. And I think like a British people in general, like we, we really find like people being sort of excessively emotional or like, um, excessively like outwardly emotional very off-putting and i think i'd always just kind of attributed her sort of the dislike that the other housewives had towards her as her just being like a british woman who like found this kind of stuff kind of gross but like watching her on founder pump like i really really dislike her now like it's really really changed my perception of her as a person like she she's
Speaker: she's so manipulative and like conniving and she seems to sort of relish in the suffering of these like people like to the point where like because she kind of she kind of serves as like a bit of an agony and like if they've got a problem they'll kind of go to lisa and she'll give them advice and she always gives them like the worst advice that makes the situation it's like 10 times worse and i don't know she's that but there is something demonic about her it's crazy and she is like literally a producer on the show so she has like she is their like boss both at sir as the owner of the restaurant but she's also their boss on on the tv i would say like the moment that really kind of cemented it for me was i can't remember whether it's season one or two i think it's two like after sheena's gotten this is this two when does sheena get married Sheena's like wedding is... Because they they start using the weddings as sort of like the finales. I think Sheena's wedding is the finale of two. Okay. Well, like i remember... like a Well, they're like slightly into freedom, but I remember like after Sheena gets married, it's sort of revealed that her husband Shay has this like um like prescription drug problem. Like a crippling opioid addiction. Yeah. And she...
Speaker: And I don't know, she like she kind of their marriage is like in real trouble, and he feels like she's never listening to him, and they're getting in arguments and stuff like that. he He feels like he's afraid to speak to Sheena, because whenever he does, she sort of like bites his head off. And she goes to Lisa for advice, and like Lisa's advice is basically, like you need to be tougher on him, you need to be harder on him. And I'm like, this guy is like... really suffering and she's just like encouraging her to be like more of a bitch towards him and then obviously they end up breaking up and it all goes to shit but like um and then another moment was like um and this would never happen now on reality tv but like even though tom schwartz doesn't actually work at sir they they kind of like
Speaker: tease him getting a job there several times throughout the course of a few seasons. Like Lisa will give him an opportunity and then she'll let him down. And one of them, she opens this like gay bar called Pump um and offers him like a job as a bartender there. And he has like a panic attack on his first shift and like leaves and doesn't come back. And like her basic like attitude to him having a panic attack is like, toughen up you big pussy. And like, I don't know, there's, there's no, there's no consideration for his like anxiety or like mental health or any of that stuff. And I don't know that, that, those sort of two are like moments kind of struck me as like, especially cool from Lisa.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, yeah, and she has this, like, if you haven't watched it, which I think most of the people who listen to this likely will have watched it. No, I don't know why you're still here. Yeah, but, like, she has this, like, she does seem like kind of a brothel owner, and she lives in this, like, big house in Beverly Hills that's, like, a very bizarre kind of looking house. Like, the doors look like the doors to, like, an office building. Have you ever thought about that? With the attacks ones, yeah. Yeah, and then she has these swans that are really nasty, that swim in this little pond. Nasty, they hiss at them and stuff.
Speaker: um And she has all these weird animals like all around the house. She has dogs, she has little ponies. You occasionally see like the actual staff at her house. um It seems like a miserable place to work. Yeah. They have to like constantly be taking care of all these animals. And like that she dresses the dogs up in these like little costumes. and Anyway, there's this whole other subplot that doesn't come out in the first two seasons where she runs this like charity called Vanderpump Dogs, which my understanding is that's eventually why she leads Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, because there's like a whole controversy around that. But getting into that would be a whole other thing. But yeah, so...
Speaker: you know The first two seasons, like trying to stay focused on that, um yeah it does end with Sheena's wedding, which is like really harrowing and and terrifying. and like I would say like I do think the show has like genres. like There's sort of like this friend genre element, and there's like this mystery genre element. and like I would say around Sheena's wedding, I started to feel like there was this horror genre element.
Speaker: Because i like realized... like they the And the producers like play into this. like They play like really sinister music, and they like kind of make Sheena... They like zoom in on Sheena's face in ways that are very like garish and like glaring and scary. um And she's like...
Speaker: And like you realize that like Sheena's trying to like produce her own wedding for the show because she keeps saying like, you know, it needs to be done this way. She makes this woman sing twice the song that she's going to sing for her to come out to because she wants to come out in this like very particular way. She's like berating this like poor um wedding planner she hires. And like you find out she was only even able to afford this insane wedding because she had fallen and like busted, like fucking busted her teeth in. yeah and like sued the building and like got a settlement. So that's how she was even able to like...
Speaker: pay for this wedding, for this marriage that lasts like one year. But the whole thing is just like kind of like grotesque and frightening and like uncanny to me. Yeah, I think the day other moment in the wedding that found really like creepy and unsettling is like um after they've got married when the they're sort of doing the reception, Um, she's like timed exactly when she wants each member of like the bridal party to like come out into the party. And she wants to come out at this like very particular moment in a very particular song. So she can do this like choreographed dance with Shay. Um, and of course like the DJ fucks the timing up.
Speaker: ah So like, I think they play the song over and then she does eventually come out and the choreography and air quotes that she does with Shay is just her sort of like jumping up and down and kind of waving a little bit. And I thought you could have done this at any other point in that song and like nobody would have noticed, but you're so autistic about everything being perfect. It was, yeah, it was horrific. Yeah, I guess we should have mention that Sheena has ah subsequently been diagnosed with OCD and is now like an OCD like like advocate. So you can see some of some of that um in her. Although one thing that I find insane about Sheena is that in her house ah before she gets divorced... She's decorated her apartment with only giant blow up photos of her at the wedding um or just her solo. And then she has her litter box for her cat in her bedroom. That's crazy. Which is crazy. um It's just like, what is going on here?
Speaker: Um, so yeah, so anyway, that's the lay of the land, like in the first ah two seasons, but it pretty quickly devolves like Stassi and Jax break up like super fast. um There's some scenes that I love, though, like Stassi, when she's moving out of Jax's apartment, um but brings a bunch of her friends. This seems like very realistic to you. Because at this point, they are in their 20s. This seems like very realistic to your 20s. She brings a bunch of people over to the apartment to like help her move out. And they drink Jax's nice champagne Cristal that's in the fridge. And they like stub out their cigarette butts like inside the champagne bottles and like leave all his shit all over the place. And I'm like, that's totally something... like I would have participated in, like, with a girlfriend, like, if she had um asked me to to come do that with her you know? um And they, like... And there's, like, other moments like that that are just, like...
Speaker: Yeah, like the way they get back at each other is just is is fascinating. And by the end of the two seasons, like everything has been completely rearranged. Like all the couples have broken up. Some of them have gotten with new people. Some of them haven't. There's like this just whole rearrangement of like the original um kind of standing everyone started in, um which is which is interesting.
Speaker: There's also, like, before the first two seasons, like, in the first two seasons, this doesn't happen quite as much, but, like, after the first two seasons is where you start to see, like, the production element, like, gets gets more and more visible, because, like, clearly Stassi tried to leave the show in season three, right? Yeah. Yeah, think so.
Speaker: and they like and like they when they as they're like after season three my understanding is by at season four is when they started getting big money they started making twenty five thousand an episode Um, and they, uh, by then it's like when they're talking about sir, they're often talking about like the show because Lisa will say things like you abandoned us Stassi, but she doesn't really give a fuck that Stassi doesn't work at sir anymore. She's pissed that Stassi tried to like jump out on her own and like become like a you know, whatever, whatever she wanted to be. Yeah, I just feel like that kind of, I mean, we talked about this a little bit, I think the other day, but like that kind of fourth wall breaking kind of just gets sort of worse. And i want to say worse and worse. It's not, but it's not necessarily worse or better. It's just different. But like, I feel like as the series goes on, like that becomes more of a sort of prevalent aspect of it. And that kind of really like bled over into like the other the Bravo shows. And I do think it's kind of because of Vanderpump Rules that that's kind of happened. Yeah, the reunion's where a lot of fourth wall breaking happens. Like, at one point, Kristen says to Sheena, like, Sheena, for instance, like, doesn't watch one of the, this is, like, farther down the line, but Sheena doesn't, like, admits in this reunion that she hadn't watched the the season. And Kristen goes, it's unprofessional.
Speaker: And, like, they start talking to each other in these ways where you can, like, acknowledge acknowledge they're on a show. Yeah, I mean, reunions have always kind of been like that in a sense because it's always been, like, the sort of the two episodes or the one episode of a season of like, Housewives or whatever where they are kind of allowed to, like, break the fourth wall and, like, speak directly to each other, like...
Speaker: outside of the universe of the the show bubble. But like, um it's kind of gotten to the point where like, it's not sort of confined to the reunion anymore. And like, they will like talk about the reunion in the show. They do this on Housewives all the time now and they never used to do And it drives me crazy. Like, cause you kind of,
Speaker: when you're watching one of these shows, like, you're kind of, like, sucked into this, like, bubble of, like, their universe, and I don't want to know that there's, like, a camera guy behind there and a producer talking in their ear, and it feels like the more they kind of acknowledge things like that, it kind of takes away some of the magic of it. Like, they'll talk about BravoCon on the show and stuff, and I'm like, no, no, no, I don't want that. But I don't know. I think that's just the way that reality TV is going in general now. I think sort those days of, like,
Speaker: pretending that it's all a sort of and containable is sort of over but yeah i don't know i mean i'm trying to think of like a way to like do something like vanderpump rules in today's world that would like were and like i kind of imagine the only way it could happen is like it couldn't happen in the uk or the us like I could see like some other country producing like really interesting reality TV that we then watch over here. like I could see that happening. um like i could see like something happening in like Korea or whatever. you know yeah like I could see this like this kind of like thing happening somewhere else. But I think in the US and the UK, at least where we're at culturally now, it's very unlikely that... like
Speaker: something as organic feeling as Vanderpump Rules could happen. But I don't know. I mean, things come out of nowhere all the time. And sometimes there really is, like, a big surprise. And, you will and like, something does, like, really surprise people. And, like, we just don't know yet, like... Yeah, I do think like, i I don't know if there was like another like big thing like this, it definitely wouldn't come from Bravo. I feel like Bravo have really sort of, I think 2020 was kind of like the point with Bravo where they they were kind of, they really sort of like laid down the law in terms of like what they find acceptable from their sort of the characters on their shows. Like, and they did, because that was the year that they got rid of Kristen and Starcy, who I mean, Kristen has now sort of
Speaker: been allowed back into the fold um they also got rid of um kelly dodd from the real housewives of orange county because she was like a sort of like a covid trooper sort of conspiracy theorist and they got rid of her for that um and they they kind of they kind of started doing this thing where like they would punish sort of cast members for like going against sort of the bravo line would they maybe like put them on pause for like a few seasons and then let them back in when they feel like they've sort of done their time in Bravo jail. And I don't know, I think, I think if you were going to get a show as outlandish as Vanderbilt rooms, like especially in early years, like it would definitely have to come from somewhere else. Yeah, which maybe it can. I mean, i think that what's next, if you really want my prediction, is I think there's going to be like, and it's already kind of started, right? Like all this influencer stuff, all this like stuff on like TikTok and things like that, like people are now basically producing their own reality reality TV.
Speaker: um And I could see something coming out of that. Like I could see this like kind of like just like gorilla reality TV moment where like. Yeah, I mean, we kind of had that a little bit. I don't know whether you were like, did you follow any of the like Shane Dawson, like James Charles, like um kind of stuff? I was ah i was definitely aware of like, I watched Bye, Sister, and, like, I was aware of some of that stuff. That that was, I mean, he's, he's like, way cancelled by now. But, like, Shane Dawson, he had he his YouTube videos had basically just become his, like, own reality show. And he would have, like, Jeffree Star come in for an episode or, like, um James Charles come in for an episode. And he kind of he'd kind of built his own, like...
Speaker: reality TV cinematic universe, like just on YouTube. And i so I do, I do think it feel like there's scope for that kind of thing to probably happen again. Yeah, I just don't know if anything could ever, like, capture, because, like, I missed it completely, you know? Like, I missed, like, when Vanderpump was, like, really popular, but, like, just from, like, now revisiting it and, like, looking back at, like, the articles and, like, the fandom and, like, what was being written about then, like, it did kind of have this, like, monocultural presence. I just wasn't, an I just didn't, I wasn't really, like,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: mustwach like kind of label but i can't think of anything now that like penetrates the like kind of broader um culture like that. Like, it's so hard. I mean, like, that there are things that happen. Like, Obsession was kind of like a shock to me.
Speaker: um Like, pretty much everyone watched Obsession. yeah And that was interesting. Like, I'm like, why this? Like... Because it's like, listen, I think Obsession is fun and it's like a good, decent horror movie. It's totally fine. um But there's so many movies like that and I just don't quite know like what about Obsession like really broke through so hard. But I don't know. It's like every once in a while something gets through, you know? you know Do you feel any kind of like remorse or like sadness for like the people in like the early seasons of Vanderpump Rules? Because... I don't know, like, I've spoke to a few people about this. Like, this there is something kind of sad, like, watching it, like, now, as opposed to, like, when it was airing and knowing, sort of, even if you're not, like, fully, like, up to date on, like, all of the goings-on, like, you you kind of know that all of the dreams that they have, like, go down the toilet. And there is a kind of, so, something kind of sad and tragic about, like,
Speaker: listening to them talk about their burgeoning pop careers and their like desires to be like a serious actress and stuff and you just know that they're only ever going to be known as like the crazy one or the psychotic one or the um the cheater from vanderbilt rules i don't know yeah i do feel that i mean that's like the one thing i've because like i there's been a few people not many but like a couple people who've like argued with me online, like, like, been like a little bit mean, like, oh, like, what are you bringing to the conversation? Like, this happened 10 years ago. And I'm like, this is exactly the argument I've made about like, my Twitter presence is like, this is what I'm bringing to the conversation. Like, I do know what happened. I do know that they're like, doomed, basically. Yeah. I know that they made this, like, Faustian bargain and that, like, it's not going to work for them, like, in the end. um And that basically they're all going to be tethered for life to these, like, kind of shitty reality TV, um like, careers where it makes them rich enough, some of them, that they're able to have, like, kind of a nice life but not so rich that they can stop. And, like, basically that's, like...
Speaker: That's like where that's like how it's gonna go. I mean, they're kind of now some of them, the ones who have made it this far, are like in kind of like knock on like knockoff Real Housewives stuff. like yeah The Valley is kind of like a little bit of like a knockoff Real Housewives thing. Yeah, I mean, that definitely that the not um they're not in the same tax bracket as the Housewives, let's put it like that. They would never be on the real show, but like and they're kind of giving them their suburban dream moment, I guess. Isn't there a big variation, though, in like housewife world of... like ah This is just my general understanding. it's I'm not saying that like I don't know enough about it, but like my just what just knowing a little bit about like the housewife's world, like isn't there some who are like truly actually very rich, and then there's some who... like
Speaker: aren't very rich and like very much depend on like the housewives income to make it work that has kind of been like a bit of a bone of contention i think um like in the fan base for a while because i kind of when it started off like with like orange county in new york like they all were very rich like there was there was no sort of question about it But, like, as it's kind of gone on like, some of the franchises introduced, like, women who aren't married, for starters, or, like, aren't, like, so barely any of them are housewives anymore. Like, they're all divorced. um
Speaker: But, like... Yeah, especially Orange County did this a lot. They would bring on sort of women who were well-off, middle-class, but not not on the same level as Elisa Vanderpump or like somebody like that. um And I don't know. i I don't necessarily really have an issue with that. um One of the things I do find really tragic watching Housewives is like almost all of them end up getting divorced. Like if you're married when you start on the show, you eventually end up divorced. And it's always the husband who leaves the wife. It's never the other way around.
Speaker: So there is a kind of ah sort of sad element when you're watching it. like know know Their relationships are probably doomed, but I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you have to think about it, though. like Would you ever actually want to be on a reality show? like No. I would never, ever, ever in a million years. um i don't really care about money. like it just I just know that it's like going to go in a bad direction. like Even, like I don't know, i i get i guess like kim like I guess you can point to certain people, kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, whatever,
Speaker: who like did end up getting like really, really, really rich off it. But like, I don't know. It like still seems very sad. Like I watched the Paris Hilton documentary that came out a couple of years ago because not the, don't know, maybe it was the one where she talked about the abuse she had at like that,
Speaker: Reform school. Anyway, I don't remember. she's She's released a couple documentaries. They're all super depressing. But in the one that I was watching, it was like, this is pre her having kids, so maybe things have like gone better now. But she was just like stuck in this... like Like, all the documentary showed was her traveling around the world like, Tokyo and stuff like that. And she would hang out with what she called her friends, which were clearly fans who had been, like, longtime fans who, like, had made websites about her. And, like, she would just go to these, like, events where, like—and they were pretty intimate events. Like, they were, like, you know, maybe 20 people— but where, like, clearly the whole thing was, like, basically she's doing, like, a fan meet and greet, but, like, this seemed to be, like, the primary relationships, like, in her life.
Speaker: And I was like, this is so sad, you know? Like, I mean, she ultimately found that, like, gay husband and had two babies be a surrogacy, and, like, maybe now, like, life is going a little happier for her. Yeah.
Speaker: But even her sister in that documentary, Nikki Rothschild, um is like they they have this like really ah revealing moment where she's like, Paris, like why do you keep doing it? like you You have so much money. And Paris is like, I just need to have a billion dollars. And Nikki's like, why? Yeah.
Speaker: like Like, you don't need a billion dollars. Like, you already have enough money to live, you know? like Yeah, it's interesting. I think like any of these shows that are like set in LA, you kind of realize how small l a is as kind of like ah a community because there are so many like crossovers between them all. like um Like Kyle on Real Housewives is Paris is Anne.
Speaker: um Right. And Kyle and um the other one. ki Yeah. And like that they're both like sisters of Kathy. And like Kathy comes on as like a quote unquote friend of the Housewives quite a lot in like the later seasons. And she is the most batshit crazy woman I've ever seen. Like she's very funny, but she's, I can't imagine having her as a mother. She seems completely psychotic. There's a really funny video if you watch those like um Architectural Digest like house tours. There's a Cathy Hilton one where she goes around her house and like shows you all of the different Christmas trees she has. Because every year she has about 20 different Christmas trees and they all look hideous. She just throws as many like ornaments on as possible. But you can tell she's like curated everything sort of perfectly according to her bizarre specifications. But yeah, that I don't know. i think to be like reasonably well adjusted and part of that family, I think must be very difficult. I think Nick is probably the most normal.
Speaker: Yeah, she seems like she sort of just like got out and like decided to marry a rich guy and just kind of like do what she would have done had they not gone on to reality TV, which is just like...
Speaker: One thing I did want to talk about a little bit about BPR as well was, um i'm no coming i'm i'm I mean, I'm probably the last person as you describe as a feminist, but I do feel like the i do feel like the women on the show like really really get treated differently compared to the men in terms of like the behavior that will be accepted by Lisa and by like the producers. I feel like the repercussions for bad behavior always fall harder on the girls than the boys. 100%. Like if you look at like, if you tallied up all of the things that Jax has done throughout like however many seasons he was on the show, like he should have been fired just like after to season two or three. um But he's still there and it feels, I don't know, I'm interested in like why there is that sort of like imbalance between the boys and the girls on the show in terms of how they treat it. I mean, i think the answer is kind of like the simple answer. And it's just like, Lisa kind of hates women, you know? um She feels some sort of like, you know, kind of like intrasexual like competition with them and like kind of wants them to be put in their place. And she like doesn't feel that way about the the guys. And that's just like a basic reality. Like she's an older woman who clearly still very much values her looks and her sex appeal.
Speaker: And she's around all these like young, you know at least at the very beginning, very like fit women, and she just wants them to sort of be like kind of held down. you know There's also some element of, I don't know what the fuck happened between Lisa and Jax, but there's something very weird there. That's one. Yeah, because he's so, like, I don't get wrong, I love Jax. Like, he's, I would say he's, like, second to Stassi. He's, like, one of my favorites, even though he's an awful human being. He's, like, he is reality TV gold. But, like, I don't know, he, like, seems, like, she's, like, this big, like, Lisa's, like, this big, and I don't buy into this necessarily, but she's always, like, painting herself as this big LGBT advocate. She does a Pride episode every year and all of this stuff, and she's, um she's got like she has like pump the like gay bar and he he seems very like outside of that whole like universe but she like keeps him around even though it i don't know i don't want to put words in his mouth but i kind of get the impression that he's uncomfortable with a lot that stuff of Of course. Of course he is. It seems odd that she would keep somebody like that so close to her. I don't know. Yeah, he obviously is uncomfortable with it. Like, it's easy to see. I mean, it's interesting, too, that she even, like, not that I care about this at all, but, like, it's interesting that she even, like, paints herself as such an LGBT advocate because she, like, built this show where for at least the first five seasons or six seasons, there's, like, no gay characters. There's, like, no. Like there's like, you know what I mean? Like they just, it's like a very like heterosexual show, which I think is like another thing I kind of wanted to talk about before we move on little bit after. Well, I'll do it after we finish up with Lisa and the boys. There's also this like weird thing with like James Kennedy, where I do think Lisa like kind of like knew his dad and like,
Speaker: Lisa's always sort of referencing this like wild London 80s thing. um see I think you get the impression that like Lisa feels bad for him because she knows the type of world that he like was born into, which seems really...
Speaker: like not great for a child, even if it was fun for an adult. um And Lisa's son is also very troubled is my understanding. So I think there's like this element of like, she's really sees, whereas like Pandora for instance is like,
Speaker: kind of like the perfect daughter like she got married i think we kind of they they do touch on that a little bit in housewives because max is adopted he's not like lisa's birth child and there's kind of a storyline in a later season where he um like wants to kind of seek out his like birth mother and it causes a little bit of friction and um i do think like I do think a lot of his kind of sort of troubledness comes from like being kind of brought up into this world that he's not really like he's never really not supposed to be a part. But you know what I mean? He's kind of he's kind of an outsider that's been sort of like adopted. I mean, she sort of treats him like that, too, in a weird way. It's like he's a busser at Sir and like Pandora like runs all her like stupid little businesses, you know?
Speaker: So it's like, I don't know, there's like this weird, yeah element of like... I can't stand Pandora. I don't know why, there's just something so unlikable about it. I know, and you know she fakes the British accent.
Speaker: Yeah. she never She never lived a day of her life in English. Whenever she's like on screen as well, she always just like, she almost kind of mimics Lisa, like the way that she speaks to the staff. as so like shell she's so Like if they're doing an event or something and she's there, like she starts sort of bossing them around the way that Lisa wouldn't stop. And I'm like, bitch, these are supposed to be your friends.
Speaker: They kind of dropped that conceit by that like by the season I'm on now. They've like kind of dropped the idea that like, Pandora is like a friend of any of these people.
Speaker: um But yeah, they do try to sort of like loop her in early on um i think it's I think Pandora herself was probably like, I don't really want to be like a Vanderpump Rules like girl.
Speaker: um One thing I was going to say that I wanted to ask you what you think about it is like, one thing that's funny is like gay guys are such big consumers of reality TV, but like there has not been a, sick like they've tried and failed multiple times to like make a reality show centered around gay men. And I'm just, I'm curious if you have like a theory about that. Yeah. I, I, if, if that was a show like Vanderbilt Rules that was all gay guys, I wouldn't want to watch it. but why like the look within it's embarrassing you know what I kind of have a parallel for this because I mostly consume American reality TV shows like if I watch anything British it's never this kind of like don't know what's the word
Speaker: It's not like if I watch a British reality show, it's always some kind of competition or something. It's never these kind of narrative shows because there's a, there's something embarrassing about watching like your own people behaving in that way that I think ah really it makes me really uncomfortable. So that's why i always saw, I won't watch like the Real Housewives of Cheshire, for example, or like the Ladies of London. Um, cause like, like they're my, they're my people. It's cringe and embarrassing. And I think like, um, I think it's the same with the gay thing. I think if I was watching a bunch of gay guys behaving like despicably, it would just give me the egg. Cause it's like, no, you can, you can, you can laugh at them and enjoy that like horrendous behavior because they're different to you.
Speaker: I don't know. That's my theory. Yeah, I mean, my theory is like, well, okay, there's one format of show I think like gay guys would maybe make really entertaining TV of and that's like a Love Island type thing. that They've done this, they do this in the UK. there' it's There's a show called like, think it's called like I Kissed a Boy or something. Well, it's big I feel like Love Island itself is so different. i don't know, but I don't know, is I Kissed a Boy they're supposed to explore with a bunch of different people? Yeah, I think so. I don't really know. I never watched that because because I wouldn't watch it because it looks awful.
Speaker: But, Because like the bachelor is like our okay like so actually Dan Savage responded to one of my tweets because I was like you can't do a gay bachelor because the contestants would fuck each other. That's true. But Dan Savage is like you could try to do and there is apparently some show that attempted this you could try to like create sort of a it could be like daddies and twinks or so something. like you could don i do They did this, though, didn't they? know, they did do it, and it like didn't work still.
Speaker: I mean, my theory is, and i don't and if anyone's made it this far in the episode, um congrats, so maybe no one will even hear me say this, but I just think there's kind of like epigenetic blood memory where like my gay guys aren't supposed to be the like court is like they're not supposed to be like members of the court they're supposed to be like the the eunuch like overseeing like in the shadows so like andy cohen ah and like alan coming on traitors like it's like their role makes perfect sense they're kind of like the sort of like sidekick that's like sort of like a little like they're pulling the strings they're in the background but they're not like actually members of the show whereas like
Speaker: the actual members of the show like need to be heterosexual. And it's just like, that's like, we just kind of like have always structured society like that. And we like, can't stop recreating it. I don't know. That's sort of one of my theories. No, like I can go on board with that. And I also think on DPR, like, um, and you already have like James fulfilling the role of like the, the, the token sort of gay friend. Cause like he's, I mean, he's straight, um, But he's more friends with the girls. and but he's he's the He's the gayest straight guy I've ever seen on TV. like he's ah and he's And he's not even like the nice, friendly gay guy that you're best friends with. He's like the most toxic, like evil F-slur that you've ever met in your entire life, but wrapped up in a straight guy. Yeah. I mean, gay guys have made some inroads on like, you know, reality like competition shows. They just, i just don't think they've ever been able to like, I remember there was this one really bad one called like the real boys of WeHo or something. it was so terrible. It was terrible.
Speaker: Um, anyway, I'm kind of losing steam if you want to maybe call it for today. Yeah, I've nearly finished my um jalapeno margarita. Well, bye, Twinkies. Next time we talk, I'll let you know about Ariana Maddox. Yeah, we can do like a Notes on a Scandable episode and kind of run through it.
Speaker: So that'll be good. Sounds good. Bye. Okay. Bye, Twinkies.
