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S01E10: Sanitize with St. Ignatious!
42 Plays1 year ago
No, the ancient mystic isn't here as a Force ghost, but we have the next best thing. Join us for the rest of our conversation with Eric Clayton, author of "My Life With the Jedi: The Spirituality of Star Wars." Then stay tuned for some early reactions to "The Acolyte."
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Transcript
Exploring Spirituality in Star Wars
00:00:01
Speaker
We're back with My Life of the Jedi author, Eric Clayton, and a few thoughts on the first couple episodes of the Acolyte. Grab your droids and brooms, it's a Star Wars cleaning crew. Welcome back to The Cleaning Crew. We're going to rejoin our conversation from last week with Eric Clayton, the author of My Life of the Jedi, the spirituality of Star Wars.
Moral Complexities in the Star Wars Universe
00:00:20
Speaker
When last we left, we were just starting to talk about the good standard and the evil standard and kind of the gray area in between. So I'm about to say something profound. Let's listen. Take the lightsaber battle and Return of the Jedi, right? Like Luke has to flirt with the dark side and tap into his anger to get Vader to a place of submission. But it's at that moment where he realizes, okay, wait, this is not the way I want this to end up and makes that shift and head back.
Key Spiritual Themes: Redemption and Struggle
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i mean And again, that that I think that that gets to another ah key spiritual principle, that constant call to redemption, to hope, to to to no one has ever really gone. right that luke That Luke quote from Last Jedi. um you know But the need to kind of work out that kind of redemptive ah nature. like like i like You don't just like snap your fingers and it's done. It's it's this constant like daily grind and the nitty-gritty mundane reality of our lives where we're just making simple choices that, like you know, leanest towards caring for others or or go going deeper into ourselves and and and isolation.
Eric Clayton's Sources and Inspirations
00:01:21
Speaker
Now, one thing I noticed about your book, which I loved, is you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that's been going on in the Star Wars universe. You quote from so many different sources, and it's a recently published book, so yeah you're you're bringing stuff from Ahsoka. What I'm curious is, there hasn't been a lot that's come out since Ahsoka, but there's been some stuff,
00:01:43
Speaker
High Republic books or some, you know, the The Tales of the Empire is a good example. How has the newer content since you finished the book, has that kind of changed or influenced or enhanced your thoughts that you represent
Spiritual Implications in New Star Wars Content
00:01:56
Speaker
in the book? Yeah, great question. I think Tales of the Empire and The Living Force by John Jackson Miller are two kind of stories loaded with spiritual significance. You know, I mean, like in in um like I said, the cave is very significant to me. And Tales of the Empire introduces essentially a light side cave, right? Yeah. um And and what does it what does it take, again, to get out of this cave that would, you know, what what does the cave mean? How is does this pressure cooker of meaning that then you have to escape by making some key decision? Like, you know, I think that would be something to reflect on further. But I was really struck by the living force. I don't know if you've read that book yet. I have not read it, no.
00:02:31
Speaker
it's just you know it's so It's so good in that it reminds us to be attentive to people in front of us.
Individual Contributions to Spiritual Themes
00:02:39
Speaker
And and that it's not a bad thing to be um thinking about the big picture and how are we moving you know the big picture towards justice and peace and and harmony and compassion. But also, the the individual people that make up the picture are are are really where the game is played. um And if if we miss that, if you have missed the whole thing. And yeah you know I think Millie just does such a good job of playing that out in in such a meaningful way. And and I think this Keith, he goes back to this theme of like helping one person, like the the importance of one person. And then you you layer that on the Star Wars universe. You're like, oh, well, Anakin was one person, Luke was one person, Rey was one person. And this idea of, of
00:03:23
Speaker
You know, it's it's not so much about like a chosen one. It's about do we choose one person to help or to you know to to to give of ourselves to, right? To pursue the the the good standard. It's like Jen's line, right, in Rogue One about, and I can't remember the exact quote, but, you know, where she's like, we we have to take action. You know, it doesn't matter how much hope we have. Like, we we have to take action. We've just got to do it. It's like what hope or what choice, right? right Yeah.
Impact of Closing Sacred Spaces
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and And I just think that that, um I think the idea of painting a ah religious institution as doing, trying to do good, but getting lost in in two amorphous or or vague of a picture um was compelling. Also, um you know, being ah a Catholic, right, who has who has witnessed a lot of churches closing, um the idea the whole the whole his whole,
00:04:09
Speaker
book is about closing a ah Jedi temple. That's like the the premise. And and um and and again, the the the ripple effects of of removing a sacred place from ah from a community I thought was very, very well done, very, very wise. um And and you knows it's not easy. It's not happy. There's there's you know no bad guys. There's just people making you know just so decisions. But it was, I think, a very wise and spiritually significant book that if I was to add more to my book, that would definitely be a bit of source material. But I loved i loved mining the the depths of Star Wars. there are some i' clear I don't know the comics very well, so that's a pretty clear and old mission in my and my text. But I did really try to to hit a lot of things because I i love like the authors and the you know, all the folks that are are working on this franchise, I think, deserve to have their there's say in the in the larger ethos. Well, when you get a chance to dive into the comics, you've got to start back with the 77, Marvel, the Jax and the Stark little kid. and Yeah, it gets a little crazy back then. I have my um purple, like purple-robed Obi-Wan Kenobi pop-funko behind me, which I think is from like a weird, weird comic. but yeah I think that's right. Yeah. From yeah from the late 70s, early 80s, something like that.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, there's some weird days back then. Well, you know, I'm like you in that pretty much anything that comes out of Lucasfilm, I'm going to like, ah you know, my my friends kind of tease me about that sometimes.
Eric Clayton's Favorite Star Wars Media
00:05:32
Speaker
But I'm curious what like, what's your faves, you know, like, like, what's your go to on an afternoon if you decide, hey, I want to throw in some Star Wars while I'm working or just need a little touch. What what do you what do you do? Yeah, good question. I mean i i really liked Obi-Wan Kenobi, the TV show. i thought like there i mean you know I don't know if it was like consistently my favorite, but there were some real key moments and key scenes, and I love that character. And again, it's spiritually resonant. i mean there There are just like some fun scenes in Boba Fett. There are some some really fun scenes in... Ahsoka had some really good stuff. um I think my favorite of the movies would be Rogue One and and probably Last Jedi, an empire of the original ones.
00:06:14
Speaker
i don't I don't know. I don't have like a good a good answer because I could watch, you know, I'll like go to YouTube and just watch lightsaber fights, you know, or, um ah yeah you know, so some of those key, the key plot points I like, you know, the like the end of the Clone Wars. And yeah, those would be some kind of like a taste of like what i would might what my favorites are. And I like the Phantom Menace, I'll be honest. we just We just rewatched it with, we went to the theaters to see it, me and my girls. and yeah And I was like, I think this was a good movie. Like, I think there's like some good, big broad brush strokes going on here that are really compelling. And particularly as we fill in the rest of the story around it. Yeah. We enjoyed watching episode one in the theater again. Did you stay through for the Acolyte preview then afterwards? We did. It was a late, it was a late showing. My eldest daughter fell asleep and she woke up just in time for that one. My youngest one was like, like wide eyed the entire time. Loved the whole thing. Then we get to the, my eldest woke up for the Acolyte preview and then that play, you know, it was like what, like four minutes and she's like, boy, that was really short.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I was like, you missed the movie. That was that was just a ca was a commercial. Right.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's Spiritual Journey
00:07:13
Speaker
You mentioned Obi-Wan Kenobi. And I was at Star Wars Celebration and in the session where they kind of surprised everybody and said, you know, hey, surprise. Obi-Wan was supposed to premiere on Disney Plus tomorrow. It's going to be or a couple of days. It's going to be tomorrow. And the premiere is tonight and you can all come back. So we were actually at like. the red carpet, you know, and we watched it and all the stars came in and we got to clap for them. And so it was just that magical experience of watching it with a group of people, I think really enhanced it for me. And then I agree with you with Obi-Wan Kenobi. there There are some scenes that were a little uneven. I've heard stories about, you know, it expanded from a movie out to a series and they might have had to
00:07:58
Speaker
fluff a little bit to do that. But the general arc of Obi-Wan in that, I think again, is an amazing spiritual story of somebody who has really lost hope and lost faith and how he gradually comes back to it, but to a different form of it. Yeah, it's important, right? and i don't I don't think I fully appreciated the fact that episode three ends with our swashbuckling kind of hero kind of just like going to the desert to hang out. and And then episode four begins with this like mystical hermit monk, like emerging from the desert after having hung out for years.
00:08:32
Speaker
And you're like, oh, like he had to process trauma and grief somewhere in there in that 19 years. And so what did that look like? And then you watch the show, you're like, oh, of course, of course. and it And it just, I thought it just so beautifully that connected the character, like gave us what we, I didn't fully ah realize I was missing, but and about the um the communal experience though, I remember when we watched Force Awakens and there, I think there was like two moments in in that like you premiere weekend or whatever, and the theater and and, you know, people gas, people, people applauduse like i think I think it was when the the crawl, right yeah the crawl right right? People were like nuts. And then when when Han Solo and Chewie reappeared, people just like lost it. And it's just so fun to be a part of that that moment. Because you're like, oh, we all feel this. We all feel like the gravitas of this moment. Well, I'm glad that you're a fellow Last Jedi fan.
00:09:20
Speaker
Is it your
Evolving Reputation of 'Last Jedi'
00:09:21
Speaker
favorite too? It is. I mean, I think that Last Jedi, you know, 10 years from now, kind of like the prequels were 10 years ago, everybody was still complaining about the prequels. I was one of them. I've come around on the prequels. I think 10 years from now, people are going to look back and go, wow, Last Jedi, that was really powerful movie. What what is it that you like about it? What did it say to you? I love Old Man Luke. I love I love the idea that um you've given your life to something and you failed and you feel like a failure and you're like this was all this is all racket like not like it all it all failed and so I need to remove myself from the picture I like is that feels that feels very realistic that feels like
00:09:59
Speaker
Like, you know, like a hero, like, you know, you always have that like happily ever after. But like, then what happens? Like, like what happens next? Like the like your your character in real life, our character development doesn't stop. And so like that idea and that that that this young person would come to him who is both energized by the legacy he represents, but also unaffected, like doesn't doesn't need the the razzle dazzle, like the the past. Like she's like, well, let's do it different. You know, and and I like I like that a lot. I think it's spiritually resonant. I think that's works for the characters. You know, I can't bite. I didn't love like it was like from a plot perspective. It was kind of like a little random, but I like what it pointed to. Like we're all kind of everybody's making money off a war. I thought that was a really important point. Yeah. Like like the like the slow car chase through space. Like that was also i was like I was like, is this I don't know. It's like a little weird, but um but there were some really poignant moments and and even that like. kind of like Leia flies through space where you're like, what's going on? But like, the more you think about that, the more you're like, wow, like there's something I don't know. I like that for her character a lot. And again, I like I like the second like the second in trilogies is always a downer. It always like makes you look hard at yourself like look in the mirror. And I think that's important. So I don't know how about you? What's what's your what's your take?
00:11:07
Speaker
Last Jedi for me was like, Ryan Johnson looked at these characters and said, hey, if these are real people, you know, if these were real people, how would they evolve as real characters? To your point, like Old Man Luke, it made sense. And with the story that was set up in episode seven, what would be the next logical emotional step for each of these characters? And they did it for real. It kind of reminded me of in the comics world like Marvel's or like Astro City. I don't know if you've ever read those, but You know, stories where it's the superhero universe, but it's more real people, real situations, challenges, family issues, that type of stuff. And I just love that aspect of it. It felt like a natural evolution of the story. And I liked where I had it. And, you know, the finale, spoiler to anybody who hasn't seen it, but if you haven't seen it and are listening to this podcast, I don't know what you're doing.
00:12:01
Speaker
um you know when When it turns out that Luke was, he made the decision not to engage in a real battle. It was so much the Jedi philosophy. you know When people were complaining about that, that you that's not what Luke would do. I want to see the big fight. It gets back to what I was saying earlier around Return of the Jedi. When he got aggressive with his lightsaber, he was flirting with the dark side. And in Last Jedi, he didn't do that at the end. He chose in his own way to stay aligned with the light, which I just loved. yo You're absolutely right. and that it's ah it's ah it's a it's It's acting on nonviolence, right? It's a nonviolence solution to to literal Star Wars, right? I remember going into that movie and thinking, I was talking to a buddy about this, and we were like, oh, look are we going to get a big lightsaber duel? And I was like, I don't know. And I think it came out not too long after kind of um the Alec Guinness version of Obi-Wan, Kenobi appeared in Rebels.
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I remember reading a little bit. I think it was Dave Filoni commented on um like like the you know that that there's ah there's a subtle shift in the way he holds his lightsaber. It's that it's it's that movement from like, oh, this is the general from from the Clone Wars who's going to like, you know, fight, fight, fight versus this is a ah myt like kind of a hermit mystic who does not want to fight but will do what must be done ah to to protect. And and that shift and then how quickly that lightsaber duel is over like one, two, boom. You know, like, sure, it's not maybe it's not as much fun to watch, but it's so much more powerful because you're like, oh, like these characters have grown. These these are these this these characters have developed. um And what has come before actually matters and means something. And I and so I went into to last Friday with that in my mind, it was like, oh, my gosh, that's what we're seeing here, you know, but in a different.
00:13:41
Speaker
you know in a different way, but but that same kind of through line is being pulled on. And and i i really it really
Eric's Book and Thoughts on 'The Acolyte'
00:13:49
Speaker
resonated. So that's Eric Clayton. The book is My Life with the Jedi, the spirituality of Star Wars. And you can grab it wherever books are sold, especially Amazon, which is where I got it. Now, I promised you before I left, I would give you a few thoughts on the first couple of episodes of the acolyte. The third episode will be premiering the night that I post this podcast. So we're talking about the first two. Consider this your spoiler warning. If you don't want to be spoiled, if you haven't seen it yet, just turn off the pod and we'll see you next week.
00:14:20
Speaker
Okay, so first off, was I surprised when Master Indara, played by Carrie Anne Moss, died at the end of the very first lightsaber fight? I have to say I wasn't. I kind of saw that coming. I also don't think that this is the last that we've seen of her. I do think she's dead. I don't think she's gonna come back as a force ghost, but I do think that we might see her in a flashback or two. as the series goes on. that That's kind of my thought of this entire series so far is we can't really judge it yet because there's just so many mysteries. You know, who who is the Sith? Is it Kymir? That's my who I'm betting on. I love the idea of Jason from The Good Place being an evil s Sith Lord. It's kind of like Sith Jar Jar. There are a lot of people who think it's Yord. There are a lot of people who think it's Sol. There's theories flying all over,
Mysteries and Controversies of 'The Acolyte'
00:15:15
Speaker
which is great. That means the conversation is happening.
00:15:18
Speaker
The last thing I'm going to say about it right now is this, of course, because of Leslie Headland and her background and things she's done in the past. ah The show is getting review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. You know, you've got your militant fans who just can't appreciate the idea that somebody with different beliefs than them might come up with a good Star Wars story so they have to review bomb it. Hey look in general just ignore the audience ratings from now on because they don't mean anything anymore. You know yeah you can get some good input from the critics but the biggest thing is watch it yourself decide for yourself. If at that point you decide you don't like it that's fine.
00:16:03
Speaker
but if you do, I hope you do. Cause I like this one. I think it's going to be great to see how it goes. Looking forward to episode three tonight. Meanwhile, come back next week and until then get your kitchen clean and we'll see you very soon. May the force be with you. Have a good one. Bye.