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NOW is the Time to Jump on the B2B Podcast Bandwagon
47 Plays4 years ago
If you're a B2B company that thinks it is too late to launch a podcast, think again.
Sweet Fish Media's James Carbary says there are huge opportunities for B2B companies to leverage podcasts to drive marketing, sales, and relationships with prospects and customers.
“There are one million podcasts live now. There are 30 million YouTube channels and a ubiquitous number of blogs.
But no company is saying ‘no, we don’t want to do video or we don’t want to do written content’. So, there's so much opportunity left in podcasting”.
Sweet Media Media produces podcasts for B2B and SaaS companies and offers a growing library of business podcasts.
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Transcript
Introduction to Marketing Spark and Guest
00:00:04
Speaker
My name is Mark Evans, and I'd like to welcome you to Marketing Spark, the podcast that delivers small doses of insight, tools, and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches. By small doses, it's conversations that are 15 minutes or less. Think of Marketing Spark as a snack rather than a meal. On today's show, I'm talking with James Carbery, the founder of Sweetfish Media, which produces podcasts for B2B brands.
00:00:29
Speaker
James is also one of the hosts of b2b growth a daily podcast for marketers welcome marketing spark thank you so much mark i'm pumped about this conversation as someone who just jumped on the podcast wet bandwagon my initial thought was why does the world need another podcast especially other marketing podcast,
00:00:47
Speaker
What's your advice to people and companies thinking about starting a podcast cuz i know there's a lot of them out there who look at the popularity of podcast and say to themselves is it time for us to do one as well how do we get started is it too late i guess that's the big question a lot of companies ask yes it's definitely not too late we actually just had an episode go live on b2b growth
Is it Too Late to Start a Podcast?
00:01:06
Speaker
that
00:01:06
Speaker
broke down five reasons why it's not too late to start a podcast. The biggest thing that we share with folks is it's easy to see the number in the headline. It's like, oh, there's a million podcasts now that are live. But when you start to dive into that million number, it gets really interesting because of those 1 million podcasts, only a fraction of them are active shows that have released episodes in the last, say, 90 days.
00:01:33
Speaker
And then when you compare that one million number of the number of podcasts that are that are live to the number of YouTube channels, it's actually pretty daunting that there's a 30 million YouTube channels that are active in going today.
00:01:50
Speaker
there's a ubiquitous number of blogs and no company is saying no we don't want to do video or we don't want to do written content and so i think there's so much opportunity left in podcasting and it's easy to look and say oh you know everybody's already doing them well no nobody's nobody's there actually very few people doing them and then you can drill even farther and say are my buyers.
Niche Targeting and Consistency
00:02:14
Speaker
how many podcasts are serving my specific buyer? So for you doing a marketing podcast, there are a lot of marketing podcasts, but are there a lot of podcasts focused on the type of marketing that you do for the industry that you serve, for the size of companies that you work with,
00:02:32
Speaker
for the specific problems that your specific niche of marketers are focused on. There's so many different ways to slice it and so many shows, they start and then they don't continue. So you can do a quick search in Apple Podcasts
00:02:52
Speaker
for marketing or some other like keywords that you're interested in starting a podcast around and see pretty quickly that very few shows are consistent and that's I think where you have an opportunity to win and very few shows really niche on a specific
00:03:07
Speaker
on a more specific topic so for us it's b2b marketing so that's one level deeper than than just marketing in general and it's really worked well for us we do a daily show and and we do we're actually doing multiple episodes a day now and it's allowing us to stand out and we rank for the term b2b and apple podcast so there are always little tweaks you can make to really stand out and i think there's a ton of opportunity.
00:03:33
Speaker
I think what I find interesting when I talk to some of my B2B clients, I raised the idea of a podcast, particularly since I launched a podcast. I'm very enthusiastic about the format and it's interesting. I'm in a couple fronts. One is most of them have never considered doing a podcast kind of takes them by surprise and they do a double
Repurposing Podcast Content
00:03:51
Speaker
take.
00:03:51
Speaker
That's an interesting one considering they've put a lot of investment into ebooks and blog post the other thing that i find interesting when you look at the opportunities for podcasts is the is how it can spark lots of other content so from a podcast you can do a blog post or video or even an e-book when you're looking at the market you're always looking at our why.
00:04:16
Speaker
In a sense, podcasts are almost a no-brainer for B2B brands. Do you think that's the right thing? I completely agree, Mark. And I think you can even go further than that. Something we're starting to do with B2B growth, we're starting to build original research based on the post-interview questions that we ask our guests. So again, we're doing multiple episodes a day at this point.
00:04:34
Speaker
And we just recently in the last couple of weeks came up with a list of 11 kind of rapid fire questions. You know, what's, what's the biggest challenge your marketing team is facing right now? What, what channels are working best for your marketing team? What KPIs are your CEO looking at on a regular basis asking questions like that? We're actually, we don't, we don't put that in the podcast itself, but it's immediately following the podcast interview with our guest.
00:05:00
Speaker
We're going to roll that content up into original research. I'm sure we'll use some of it for top of funnel stuff. We'll ungate it. And then some of it, we're actually going to productize and sell this original research to the marketplace because people are hungry for this kind of data. I mean, you mentioned videos, blogs, audiograms. I mean, there's so many different opportunities to repurpose the content from your show.
00:05:23
Speaker
It's another reason why I think even if your competitors have a podcast, going back to your first question, like, are there too many marketing podcasts? I can almost guarantee you that none of those shows are repurposing their podcast content on other platforms the way they should be.
00:05:37
Speaker
That's great insight. I really like the idea of market intelligence. Over the years, there's been organizations like Orbit Media that have provided some good research into podcasts and the growth of the industry. What's interesting is that Orbit has, in a sense, dominated the landscape because they're one of the few companies offering this kind of insight. I think you're on the right track. I think there's a huge opportunity in terms of offering business intelligence.
00:06:01
Speaker
The other thing, Mark, that I'll mention here, it's really what we've really built our entire business around, and it's what we call content-based networking.
Content-Based Networking
00:06:12
Speaker
The other reason podcasting is so strategic for B2B companies is because not only do the interviews allow you to create really great content with practitioners in your space,
00:06:22
Speaker
But you're also building one to one relationships with potential decision makers, potential people that can buy your product or service. So with B2B Growth, we ask VPs of marketing at B2B SaaS companies with 50 plus employees to be a guest on our show and create great content with them. Well, guess who's our buyer? A VP of marketing at a B2B SaaS company with 50 plus employees.
00:06:44
Speaker
So while we're creating great content, we're simultaneously building a genuine relationship with somebody that can potentially buy our service, our podcasting service. And it works. I mean, we've built our entire business on the back of this. That's why we do so many episodes because the short term benefit in B2B podcasting is biz dev. Now you gotta be, you can't, there's a lot of room here to be slimy.
00:07:09
Speaker
about it. It has to come from a genuine place of wanting to create great content with your guest, but naturally through the collaborative process, you're building a genuine relationship and people want to buy from people that they trust. They don't want to be sold to. If you can navigate that balance carefully of not being too on the nose and not just right after the interview saying, so you want to buy from me?
00:07:35
Speaker
I think the folks listening to this are intelligent enough to know that's obviously not how you're going to win new business, but building that relationship through the collaborative interview process and the pre-interview you do, the promoting of the episode. Naturally, that person is going to be connected and want to stay connected with you. And so that's the thing that I will preach forever and ever and ever is people, B2B company, every B2B company should have a podcast really for that reason alone.
00:08:03
Speaker
and the content is almost like icing on the cake. But the fact that it's a relationship builder for me is the primary reason that it's such a big part of our strategy.
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's an excellent point, particularly when you consider that it's so hard to connect with people.
Podcasting in B2B Marketing
00:08:17
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of discussion these days about the value of MQLs. There's a lot of discussion about how more B2B brands are focused on account-based marketing because they're looking to become more focused and try to develop those relationships. When you look at podcasting, again, it's a bit of a no-brainer.
00:08:33
Speaker
your b2b company you're interested in podcasting in theory you like the concept how do you get started and what are some of the keys to success now granted that's a loaded question so perhaps you can focus on some of the early steps that lay the ground work for a good podcast
00:08:51
Speaker
So I think the first question you have to ask is what audience do we want to serve? Who is our ideal buyer? Or who's our most profitable buyer? We talked to a lot of folks that are like, oh, we have multiple people that buy from us. Well, if you sell to finance and you sell to IT, who is your most profitable buyer? Who are the relationships that are the most valuable to you? Okay, it's IT. Okay, let's figure out then
00:09:17
Speaker
How can we create a show that your ideal buyers both would want to be a guest on and also would want to learn from your content? And so getting real clear on who your audience is going to be, who your guests are going to be is step number one. And then the biggest mistake I see, Mark,
00:09:35
Speaker
that companies make with their podcast is they want to brand their show around themselves and around their expertise instead of branding the show around their ideal buyer. So if you're selling, let's say you sell finance,
00:09:51
Speaker
some sort of finance tool, your expertise is finance, but you're selling it to entrepreneurs. You shouldn't brand the show around finance. You should brand the show around the persona of your ideal buyer, which is entrepreneurs. What that does is it allows you to actually go interview your ideal buyers and tap into their expertise. It allows you to understand your buyer better and it allows you to create content
00:10:17
Speaker
that other buyers are actually gonna want to consume, as opposed to creating content around your expertise, which a lot of people think they need to do because they need to establish authority and establish that they know what they're talking about, but to really see results from B2B Podcasting in the way we advocate for, which is both one-to-one relationships with guests, as well as the reach that the content can get. It's really focusing on branding the show around your buyer persona, around
00:10:42
Speaker
that ideal person that you ultimately want to work with. If you name your show around you and not them, you're getting off on the wrong foot and it's going to stunt, I think, the potential that you have to actually grow your business through your podcast.
00:10:56
Speaker
The other question would be once you've established those foundations, how do you determine the right kind of content? I guess maybe the other way to putting it is how do you make sure your content is good and that it's serving the needs of your target audience?
Creating Engaging Content with POV Discovery
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. So this is, this is actually something that we're really starting to press into now. We're starting to build a methodology, what we call POV discovery.
00:11:19
Speaker
And this POV stands for point of view. And so what we're starting to do with the guests on our show is we go through a pre-interview process for them. It's usually a 15-minute call. Sometimes it goes a little bit over. But what we're trying to do is figure out this guest in our context, again, we sell to marketing executives. So we're talking to a VP of marketing and a B2B SaaS company.
00:11:41
Speaker
And on the pre-interview, I'm asking them questions like this. I'll say, so-and-so, what is a commonly held belief in B2B marketing that you just passionately disagree with? And then I just shut up and let them talk. And sometimes they'll have
00:11:57
Speaker
have something that like really is like, Oh my gosh, I wish people that understood attribution, you know, in the way that I've learned to figure it out or learn to think about it, or they'll talk about ABM, or they'll talk about something that they think is like, grossly underrated, they'll get really excited. And then sometimes they won't, they won't really, they're like,
00:12:14
Speaker
I don't really know. And so I'll go on to another question and I'll say, hey, what is something that B2B marketers are doing right now that they should stop doing immediately? Or the flip end of that question is, what's something that every B2B marketer is, what are they doing now that they should stop doing or what are they not doing that they should start doing?
00:12:38
Speaker
And it's asking questions like that that will actually allow you to figure out what's the unique point of view of your guest. And when you can touch on something that they get really fired up about, you now press into that and you start to you know that like, man, I can build an interview around this topic because this person has a lot of passion around it. And now what we then we phase them into what we call our what, why and how framework, which is, OK, what are some unpack the idea
00:13:08
Speaker
that you have a differentiated point of view on. Talk about why this is, in your opinion, the right point of view, the right way to think about this. And then let's talk about how. How have you implemented this in your organization? What were some of the processes that you guys created? How did you actually bring this to life? And so the combination of the POV discovery with the what, why, and how questions ends up allowing you to create really, really good content, even though it's not coming from your brain, it's coming from a guest.
00:13:37
Speaker
In theory, that sounds like a great approach and it's definitely something that, that I'm going to borrow from you. The other thing that I wanted to ask you is that personally, and this may be something that I've only experienced that, that creating a podcast is pretty easy. I mean, the actual reaching out to people, interviewing people, editing the audio is relatively easy. The hard part, like anything is, is promotion and distribution because you can create something, but it doesn't really matter if no one reads it or listens to it or watches it.
00:14:05
Speaker
So maybe you quickly can give people a few tips on how to make the world aware of all the great work that you're doing.
Promoting Your Podcast
00:14:12
Speaker
So the biggest growth channel for B2B growth has been organic search within Apple podcasts. And so many people sleep on podcast SEO within the podcast channels. But when people search B2B in Apple podcasts, they find our show.
00:14:28
Speaker
When you are naming your show, I always recommend you name your show in a way that is clear and concise and not cute and fancy. So many people want to name their show around one of their core values or something that is not getting searched in podcast search engines. For us, we noticed that we were
00:14:48
Speaker
ranking for people searching B2B, but when people search B2B marketing or marketing, we were nowhere to be found. So we actually added a tagline to our show name in Lipson, which is the host, the host that we use to host our podcast. And so now it's B2B growth colon, your daily B2B marketing podcast. Through that, we actually started ranking in Google for B2B marketing podcasts.
00:15:09
Speaker
And we also started ranking for B2B marketing in Apple Podcasts itself. The majority of that SEO is going to come from the name of your show and how the name or the subtitle of your show. So that's one way to do it. Another way to do it is to be a guest on other podcasts by doing like kind of almost like a tip for tat like, hey, I'd love to be a guest on your show, have you on my show.
00:15:32
Speaker
That's a great way to do it. You can do that with like co-promo spots. We've done that with the marketing book podcast where we said, hey, we'll talk about your show for a month if you talk about our show for a month. Co-promos work, being a guest on other podcasts work, repurposing your content into micro videos on LinkedIn or just other types of content on LinkedIn work really well. We actually create a company page specifically for our show. And anytime we talk about the show, we make sure to mention the company page.
00:16:02
Speaker
And so people can click through, see it, go to the, you know, and end up going to the website and subscribing to the show from there. So getting active on LinkedIn, which I know you're doing really well already, Mark, would be a great way for you to get more eyes and ears on your show. And then the other thing, I mean, it's much more of a traditional approach, but it's paying for mentions on larger shows. So if you want to go to podcasts in your industry,
00:16:26
Speaker
or maybe podcasts that are a little bit outside your industry, but you know a lot of people in your industry listen to it. You can always pay those shows to do an ad spot for your podcast on their podcast. And because you know all of those people consuming it already listen to podcasts, it's a really good medium for growing your audience. Those are a few quick things that marketers can think about as they're trying to figure out distribution.
00:16:49
Speaker
One final question.
Sweetfish Media's Podcast Services
00:16:51
Speaker
Talk to me a little bit about Sweetfish Media. What's the company's history and what does it do to help B2B companies with podcasting? We produce podcasts for B2B brands, so we do all the guest outreach. We can help our customers come up with episode plans. We do all the audio engineering, the repurposing of the content into videos. We really help our customers stay consistent with their show. We found that a lot of
00:17:14
Speaker
brands that try to take this on in house, just they don't have the bandwidth, they're working on a lot of different things. We can help take all of the kind of the day to day block and tackling that needs to happen for your show to stay consistent. And we can take we take that off companies. We take that off of our customers and onto ourselves. And we've gotten really, really good at it. So we help launch and produce shows for about 80 customers right now. And like I said, we're working with a lot of B2B SaaS companies and
00:17:41
Speaker
If I had to be honest with you, I think that I've just got a 20 minute free consultation on how to create and market a podcast. So I appreciate that. Thanks for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, please leave a review as well as subscribe by iTunes or your favorite podcast app. If you have questions, feedback, would like to suggest a guest or you're looking for help with B2B marketing, send an email to mark at mark Evans.ca. Talk to you next time.