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Douglas Luiz: The Biggest Juventus Flop Of All Time? (Clip From Q & A Pod)
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After yet another torrid performance and attitude from Douglas Luiz this time in the Champions League, is it fair to bran him as the biggest ever Juventus flop of all time?
The Italian Football Podcast patron Missak sends in a question wondering what Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese think of the Brazilian former Aston Villa midfielder.
This is an extended clip from this weeks Q & A episode of The Italian Football Podcast available only to patrons on Patreon.com/TIFP
To send in your own questions and support The Italian Football Podcast simply become a member on Patreon.com/TIFP OR Spotify OR YouTube Memberships. Your support makes The Italian Football Podcast possible.
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian football podcast.
Should Juventus Sell Douglas Luis?
00:00:05
Speaker
Next question, Misako Lekian says, would it be smart for you over to cash in on Douglas Luis now in January if a permanent offer came from one of the Manchester clubs? I think he's just too lazy to play at this level. You've always looked most likely to concede whenever he's playing, which is funny coming from a player playing in a super intense
Player Performance Critique
00:00:20
Speaker
league.
00:00:20
Speaker
and should And who should you over target to replace him in your opinion? Also, Carl, I mean, you have to apologize to Western McKinney. I put my hands up and I just say I would never expect this from a player of his profile. Technical improvement at the age of 26 is something abnormal. Usually players show those sparks in their careers and then would polish it to show more.
Apology to Weston McKinney
00:00:36
Speaker
But he's become indescribably good these last few months and playing out of position on top of it. And we've got another question on top of that.
Is Douglas Luis Juventus' Biggest Flop?
00:00:44
Speaker
which I think is interesting Andrea Burns ah says, is Douglas Luis the biggest flop in Juventus history? um i I was actually thinking about this when I saw the question and honestly I think you can actually make the case that he is. Obviously we're six months in and we learn if he is to stay at Juventus for the rest of the season then we would have to make that conclusion at least
Financial Impact of Douglas Luis Transfer
00:01:10
Speaker
at the end of the season. We can't make that conclusion after six months. But based on what we've seen so far, I think there is the actually the argument that he is the ah he could be the worst. he vote to the he's on his Let's say he's on his way to being and potentially the worst Juventus transfer of all time. When you look at
00:01:30
Speaker
how much Juventus paid for him, you know, 60, 50, 50 million euros, how he's performed, absolutely abysmal. ah Again, in that Champions League game against Club Bruges, just horrific. And then with the financial implications of his signing and the knock-on effect, Juventus now need to balance the books. How Juventus are considering selling a core player for their future in Cambieso.
Failed Transfers Comparison
00:01:59
Speaker
How the you know they in Douglas Louise meant that they left other areas of the squad um with with holes in them, like not having a striker for the first half of the season. How this transfer has you know really
00:02:14
Speaker
been a disaster not just for the player but for the club for for everything um and he was supposed to be like the marquee signing along with coop miners he's been a complete disaster complete disaster so yeah i think he is i mean there's been other bad ones i mean felipe mellow is from Fiorentina in 2009 for 25 million, which at the time was a lot of
Financial Implications of Ronaldo and Pogba
00:02:36
Speaker
money. Diego um as well, the same summer, 25 million from Huerta Bremen and both those two were very expensive disasters at the time. And Maori in 2008, 23 million from Palermo. He was a total disaster. Christian Paulsen from Sevilla in 2008, they decided to sign him instead of Xabi Alonso.
00:02:58
Speaker
they rejected Zabi Alonso in order to sign to Colson, which is unbelievable. um you know And then of course, you know you've got, I mean, some would even say Ronaldo, which sounds crazy, but you know as we said earlier in the pod, although he's scored over 100 goals and you know there's no complaints of his performances, but the financial implications of how that, you enter suffered from that,
00:03:23
Speaker
years up what what we're seeing now today can be can be you know the the the origins are there and also Pogba I know it was a free transfer but I mean that is definitely the worst return you've entered re-signing ever for sure I mean you know injured then fails a doping test and then gets released I mean that was a total disaster but yeah I think I think it's potentially could be
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's a fair point.
McKinney's Future at Juventus
00:03:52
Speaker
I think it's too soon, but we're definitely ending that and going towards that area. As for Weston McKenney, are you prepared to apologise? No, I'm not. i was I mean, listen, you've got to have, listen, you've got to have Juventus standards. Listen, you're the most successful team in the history of Italian football, one of the biggest clubs in world football ever.
00:04:19
Speaker
we with were with this is not toten them this isn't jan kuloevsky putting out a hype video for finishing forth and so we don't celebrate We don't celebrate mediocrity or a few months of good form here. What I've said about McKinney on the Monday poll I stand by, which is I think he He potentially, this is the first time I've ever admitted this, so this is a concession. This is the first time ever that I potentially see a future for him at the level you've entered his need as a full back, as maybe a rotation option at full back, not as a certain midfielder.
00:04:51
Speaker
As a center
High Standards at Juventus
00:04:52
Speaker
midfielder, he's simply not anywhere close to the Juventus level of what Juventus standards are, which is winning scudettos, winning top titles. If you want a ah player that can help Juventus get in the top four and do what they're doing this season, then yes, absolutely. Let's have McKinney and he can be a rotation option in midfield. If you want real Juventus standards, you know, it's like when Inter had like, I used to remember the Inter fans saying, ah, Renocchio, because every now and again, he would have a great game. You know, like when he did that clearance off the line and it's Bayern Munich and then you'd see Inter fans Some Inter fans would that. are not into standards. Oh, plenty. The same Juventus fans that say that Makeni is good enough, which is not many. But you get you get reactive because he has a few good games and you think, oh, Makeni. Makeni is not a Juventus standard player. If you want to win Scudetti, do well in the Champions League. You would not have seen Western Makeni playing in the Juventus teams that got to the two Champions League finals or some of the great teams in the past. So that's the issue.
00:05:51
Speaker
I still think we should be able to say that I think he has improved vastly and I think he does have a role to play at U of A. Maybe not as a start-up but definitely as a rotation player. I think he's proven that in order to reach that level you don't It's step by step. I think Mckenny has a role to play. We're talking about Juventus' team. Where have they finished in Mckenny's time? They've been, you know, a top four, like fourth place, fourth place. They're their fifth this season. You know, these are the levels we're talking about, Juventus. You know, the levels, the standards are way too low. And Mckenny is not a Juventus standard player, even though he's improved. He's just not. I think he's a rotation player.
McKinney's Performance This Season
00:06:36
Speaker
but Yeah, I think as a rotation player, I think he does have a role to play. No, that's what kind of what he has been through this time. He's been a rotation placement in and out of the team, you know, going for a little bit. I think you are a little bit harsh on him. I do. I do you think you're a little bit harsh, to be honest. I'm not saying he's going to leave good enough to start at Del Piero's Champions League winning side, you will. But what I'm saying is that you need to have, like, I think if you look at what he actually does, I think he he does have a role to play at Juve, and I think he's been very good. I think he's been one of Juve's better players this season, and consistently so too. That's my point. But whether or not that's good enough to for Juve who sees itself as as as one of the clubs at the highest echelons of European football, that's that's a separate debate.