Transcript
Speaker: Hello everybody, welcome to Quantum Witch Cafe, your safe place to talk about anything strange, paranormal, fringe, UFO, UAP, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker: I know you fancy people like the UAP nowadays, but tonight I'm very excited to have Justin Bamforth on and I slur my words, I'm trying to enunciate everything.
Speaker: because I talk fast.
Speaker: So sometimes people are like, what'd you say?
Speaker: But I want to take a moment to thank anybody listening now or later in the chat on audio only.
Speaker: Please go give me a follow on Spotify.
Speaker: I just started moving all my good stuff over there, all my shows, so you can do audio only.
Speaker: And yes, just leave feedback, share all that good stuff.
Speaker: So let's get to our guest.
Speaker: Justin is the author of the spectrum glimpses of the paranormal and encounters the strange.
Speaker: This is the book.
Speaker: Oh, they're going to disappear.
Speaker: I don't even have a green screen.
Speaker: It's just okay.
Speaker: Well, anyways, I'll post a picture of it.
Speaker: The picture is like in the thumbnail of the book.
Speaker: But I'm going to have Justin.
Speaker: First, thank you for coming, Justin.
Speaker: Thanks for taking the time out of your night to show up here.
Speaker: Yeah, no problem.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: Yes, I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker: Do you want to tell everybody who you are and what you do?
Speaker: Because there's nothing I do.
Speaker: I don't like reading off a bio, the bios and the description, but I like to hear it from the author.
Speaker: Who are you and what do you do?
Speaker: Yeah, so, well, I'm a researcher, an investigator, an author into all this, you know, unexplained madness of UFOs, ghosts, cryptids, psychic phenomena, you know, or what I refer to as just high strangeness.
Speaker: I came from a rather haunted background myself, growing up in a haunted house.
Speaker: But then I come to realize, after looking back on it in hindsight, there's more of like a haunted experience, triggered by just like negative vibes that were brewing in the house at the time.
Speaker: My parents are going through like an ugly divorce.
Speaker: And I look back on it nowadays and I think maybe that's what added fuel to the fire and, you know, created something more metaphysical to manifest.
Speaker: But that got me thinking about this topic and I just started reading up on it.
Speaker: I got into investigating back in my teenage years, tagging along with other investigators and ghost groups.
Speaker: Again, reading as much as I could on the subject, educating myself, connecting with others.
Speaker: Before long, like many of you watching today, you start earning the reputation of the ghost guy, right?
Speaker: Or gal in your circle of friends and network.
Speaker: So after doing that and earning that kind of weird reputation, I wanted to take it a step further, maybe see what others outside of the usual paranormal circles thought.
Speaker: And I invited a handful of people to a small online forum called Normal Paranormal.
Speaker: And that kind of sparked
Speaker: conversation in all different high strangeness topics.
Speaker: And then later it developed into today's current website and blog and various social media channels.
Speaker: I try to stay up on them, forgive me though, but all under the same name, Normal Paranormal.
Speaker: It serves the same purpose, but on a much larger scale.
Speaker: And now I receive messages from people all over the world who want to share their experiences with me, which I later decided to kind of chronicle and compile into a book that kind of thought about some of these other concepts, which I published and I titled it The Spectrum, Glimpses of the Paranormal and Encounters with the Strange.
Speaker: So that's a little bit about me.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: So I'm going to give you kind of like a mini book review right now.
Speaker: And I love the book, so don't be afraid.
Speaker: So to me, this is what I kind of jotted down after I wrote the book.
Speaker: You take us on an eerie journey into the strange and unknown encounters with entities that many people have experienced.
Speaker: You not only give the reader the chilling accounts of the others, but also give a great deal of yourself and your thoughts on the topics that
Speaker: that you discuss anything from UFOs to on encounters with beings that seem to be trying to appear human, but fail miserably at it.
Speaker: And my only suggestion for anybody reading Justin's book is to do it with the light on.
Speaker: The accounts range from harrowing to just plain weird.
Speaker: And after reading in it, I was left with like this strange feeling that just kind of lingered until daylight because I've lived, you know, similar experiences.
Speaker: So, but in my opinion, not that anybody's asking my opinion, it's a must read for paranormal and UFO enthusiasts and researchers.
Speaker: And it kind of gave me a Master of Deception vibes, like the Jacques Vallée book, like
Speaker: The feeling after reading Jacques Vallée's book, that eerie feeling, I got that after reading your book.
Speaker: Not that I'm like – it's not even like fearful.
Speaker: It's just like what the heck, you know?
Speaker: So guys, read it with the light on.
Speaker: Don't read it when you're alone, which I did one night and I was like, is my alarm on?
Speaker: Like that's going to keep an alien that can be transmedium out or whatever, right?
Speaker: Whatever beings.
Speaker: Oh, shit.
Speaker: But yeah, that was I thought it was a great book, you know, and I have it linked.
Speaker: I have your website linked in the book linked in the description.
Speaker: So if somebody wants to grab it after listening to this, it will be there.
Speaker: I have a couple of questions, you know, and we'll see where they take us.
Speaker: So if somebody asks you, so you're an author, you wrote this book, The Spectrum.
Speaker: What is it about?
Speaker: What is your book about?
Speaker: How would you explain that to people?
Speaker: Well, the spectrum is kind of like this catch-all term for like the paranormal that I started tossing around to just better wrap my head around, you know, all of these various experiences of the phenomenon that people experience, I think, every day.
Speaker: You know, whether or not this is truly coming from an external source or perhaps more of an internal source, it's fascinating.
Speaker: And people are experiencing this sort of stuff.
Speaker: But what it is,
Speaker: exactly that, I don't know.
Speaker: So I kind of used the spectrum as that catch-all phrase and just to look in depth at like all of the different experiences and to see if there's any similarities or commonalities or shared traits, patterns that, you know, might cross over from like ufology to parapsychology to mental phenomenon, you know, to cryptid encounters.
Speaker: And I found out that
Speaker: just by interviewing a lot of people and looking at this is, yeah, they might all be connected.
Speaker: They might be all part of this spectrum of high strangeness, so to speak.
Speaker: And I think there's also, well, looking back on it now, there was an aspect that I didn't really get into, but I'm starting to really pursue this one avenue is this generational component tied to it.
Speaker: I've started asking about family histories and such.
Speaker: And
Speaker: I'm beginning to think, especially in a lot of the more extreme situations, that there could be like a certain type of doorway that maybe was inadvertently opened by some family member and maybe, you know, there's some sort of inadvertent invitation for the phenomenon to enter.
Speaker: But I'm looking at this more closely now.
Speaker: So we'll see where it leads.
Speaker: Yes, the generational thing is something that plays out with a lot of experiencers in general.
Speaker: And experiencer meaning like kind of, you know, somebody that's experienced something unexplainable or we would say paranormal, you know, as the umbrella term.
Speaker: I do like in the beginning how you mentioned that you were having a haunted experience, not so much a haunting.
Speaker: That's very interesting phrasing.
Speaker: So can you break that down for me?
Speaker: Because I haven't heard anybody...
Speaker: It makes sense to me because I had a similar situation growing up.
Speaker: But can you explain what you mean by having a haunted experience?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I think there's this aspect to the phenomenon that, again, is tied to us.
Speaker: And I think it's our mindset, our state of mind.
Speaker: And I think that...
Speaker: is what could be triggering certain things to, I guess, be amplified or maybe even manifest.
Speaker: And I think in my case as a kid, witnessing just a terrible toxic environment, you know, with, you know, with my parents, I think that that may have caused something to possibly manifest that may have been there on like a very micro level.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: You know, it took different forms that for all the different people involved there, you know, it appeared to them in different ways.
Speaker: You know, I remember hearing a lot of like unexplainable sounds, seeing a lot of shadow entities pacing back and forth, you know, outside of my bedroom.
Speaker: I remember having one of those hat man encounters that a lot of people have.
Speaker: There is a lot going on.
Speaker: My brother remembers certain aspects differently.
Speaker: And my father and my mother, they also had different events.
Speaker: But so it was almost like there was some sort of energy there.
Speaker: But I can't definitively say it was an external thing, right?
Speaker: Because prior to that, we didn't, I don't recall anything going on there.
Speaker: To my knowledge, the house didn't really have a history of haunted activity.
Speaker: And when I look at some of these other case studies, right, like, for example, like the Amityville Horror House, right, a very famous location, after the people left, not as much activity has taken place there, you know, since.
Speaker: When you look at, like, the Conjuring House,
Speaker: same thing right there's certain locations and i think maybe certain people uh they tend to bring something in there a catalyst in there and that creates i think the haunted experience more so than a definitive haunted house does that make sense or
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Because like I said, it sounds a lot like after reading your book and you saying that, people would say things to me or they ask me still to this day, like, oh, so you're a medium.
Speaker: Like, well, my grandma was a medium, and as a child, I didn't have a lot of ghost experiences, but there were other things that were happening in the house, and it makes you wonder, like, who is the catalyst for this?
Speaker: And it's passed down generationally, you know?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And this is a common trend that we even see with UFO experiencers or experiencers of extraterrestrials or beings that they automatically just put into the ET bin, even though we really don't know what they are.
Speaker: And it is interesting that it appears to different people in different ways.
Speaker: And it's just all these commonalities, but they're not all so common, which you is your book kind of covers, like you said, the spectrum of that.
Speaker: You mentioned it being triggered maybe by some sort of like trauma or something kind of like not so savory happening in the house or something like less desirable divorce or fighting or, you know, just and.
Speaker: people get triggered by.
Speaker: Sometimes these things show up and they scare people more.
Speaker: And sometimes these things shows up to people as almost like what we would learn about being called angels, right?
Speaker: Like these guardian angel type things show up.
Speaker: It's not always a scary shadow figure.
Speaker: And sometimes with shadow figures,
Speaker: like they're not necessarily bad.
Speaker: Is it just creepy and scary because it's a shadow and you don't know what it is?
Speaker: It's unfamiliar.
Speaker: So it's scary.
Speaker: Or does it actually have this feeling to like cause harm?
Speaker: You know, and I know that people have experienced both, but the whole shadow person thing alone is enough to make people think like, you know, what is going on here in the shadow might not be a spirit, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, it goes back to this fear of the unknown, right?
Speaker: You know, people,
Speaker: And I think that's why certain people are kind of like fearful of aliens, of UFOs, whatever you want to call them, because they don't know what their motive is, right?
Speaker: They're just showing up.
Speaker: But then on the flip side, like, you know, people are also scared of what we call ghosts because, again, they don't know why they're showing up, right?
Speaker: And a lot of times when these various phenomena take place,
Speaker: it kind of questions that worldview, right?
Speaker: And I think that's what scares people the most is it calls into question what we've been led to believe.
Speaker: And I don't know, it's certainly perplexing, but it's okay not to have the answer too, you know?
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: And sometimes the people that have the answers
Speaker: end up finding out that that answer is not the answer.
Speaker: The question is, are you, you know, are you having an experience and you have a part in your book?
Speaker: And I think it was like two sentences, but I was just like, yes, that like hits home.
Speaker: Like the whole people just saying like, oh, well this, that, and this happened and it is what it is.
Speaker: And you said, you kind of like that phrase has always driven me nuts.
Speaker: Cause I, I encounter people saying it on all sorts of different occasions.
Speaker: Usually when they don't, when they're just,
Speaker: I mean, it's like they don't know what to do, but they're also complacent to the situation by not digging deeper, by not fighting into some truth or fighting against something.
Speaker: Why does that irk you when it comes to strange phenomena?
Speaker: Like, you know, I'm saying, oh, books are flying off and hit me in the head and it is what it is, you know?
Speaker: Like, how is that okay?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not okay, really, because it's essentially a statement of apathy, right?
Speaker: Or reflecting an apathetic mindset.
Speaker: You know, it's essentially just telling a person like to just give up and accept certain things to be happening, even though we may not necessarily agree with them, or we may not necessarily want them to happen, right?
Speaker: So like, I think it's, it's important to question things, right?
Speaker: And to encourage those intellectual muscles that kind of like,
Speaker: I don't know, actually think for a change.
Speaker: The phenomenon, it doesn't present answers.
Speaker: It just presents questions.
Speaker: But I think in disguise, those questions
Speaker: are the answers.
Speaker: And I know that kind of like, you know, it's kind of like, it sounds like an Alice in Wonderland type thing, right?
Speaker: But like, I think when we approach this topic, we need to approach it from a non-conventional mindset, you know, or a, an approach that is not necessarily linear, right?
Speaker: It could be, you know, a circular approach, it could be an octagonal approach, I don't know.
Speaker: But how are we expected to find the right answers?
Speaker: if we're not asking the right questions.
Speaker: So that's why I really can't stand that statement.
Speaker: And, you know, it's, I just wish it would just go away.
Speaker: Maybe it will one day.
Speaker: Well, hopefully it goes away for a lot of us because that's almost like throwing in a towel in some cases.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You've been studying this for a while and you have been sort of, you know, hearing every type of story, every type of experience, every type of entity, you know, I guess not every because we really don't know what's out there, but, you know, a broad spectrum of positive stories and also scary or just strange.
Speaker: Has this affected your well-being at any point in time or your health?
Speaker: Because a lot of people that listen to others' stories forget, you know, like we take it on sometimes in a way.
Speaker: Sometimes somebody will tell us a story and we stay up all night thinking about it or we will go down this rabbit hole of research for them.
Speaker: and only to be just as weirded out as them because nobody has the answers, like you said, that answers a question.
Speaker: So has this taken like a toll on you at all, learning about all this unexplainable stuff?
Speaker: Yeah, it has at certain points.
Speaker: To anyone insane enough to actually want to pursue this topic, I say to them, know your limits, right?
Speaker: Surround yourself with people who can keep you in line, who can just check in on you and just make sure that you're not going down that
Speaker: dark rabbit hole.
Speaker: You know, I've seen and heard of many individuals who have pursued this like long enough to where, you know, it's led them to some pretty dark places mentally and emotionally.
Speaker: You know, this phenomenon, it's not to be underestimated.
Speaker: You know, there's a trickster element at play here.
Speaker: And I think that's often overlooked by naive investigators at times, you know, proceed with caution.
Speaker: You know, there's a reason why my second book was not a paranormal book.
Speaker: It was a poetry book, right?
Speaker: I needed a break from this.
Speaker: You know, the day I published that book, strangeness began, you know, when I was writing the paranormal book, strangeness was taking place.
Speaker: You know, after I got off the phone with certain people that I interviewed, weird things took place.
Speaker: And, you know, not to scare you, but I've done some interviews where
Speaker: strange things have taken place to the host, you know, right after the show.
Speaker: So in fact, I just on what's today, Tuesday on Monday, I did a show, another YouTube show.
Speaker: And one of the people commented in who I had done a show with many months prior, they said, Oh, yeah, something happened to me after I interviewed you.
Speaker: I was like, Okay, that's weird.
Speaker: So, you know, it's, look, there's the pioneers in this subject, right?
Speaker: Like Jim Moseley and Simbeckley, for instance, right?
Speaker: And even John Keel to some extent, they used to include that phrase, you have been warned, right, in some of their literature.
Speaker: And it became apparent that it was rather tongue-in-cheek, you know, statement for getting,
Speaker: too close to the truth or the infamous men in black.
Speaker: But I think in their hearts, they're also trying to be honest with the reader that, yes, you should approach this subject with extreme caution, especially since we don't know what it is that we're dealing with.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: And you can't scare me because I've had some pretty crazy shit.
Speaker: You know, and not to mention, like I went through this high school stage where I went to the wrong side of witchcraft and decided to do some weird things.
Speaker: I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker: I didn't.
Speaker: I thought I knew what I was doing, but why would I be doing that?
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: And I did it and I, something started, I added a shadow figure to the collection and this one was not nice.
Speaker: So, you know, I expect strange things to happen.
Speaker: It's been kind of a strange spell here of a dry spell of strange things besides the spirit in the house, which is, she's chill.
Speaker: She's not, you know, problematic, but I haven't had, like, since I moved to Baltimore, nothing has happened.
Speaker: it's so strange for like everything just to be so chill on the paranormal front.
Speaker: But I know, but you know what I mean?
Speaker: Like, it kind of like blows, right?
Speaker: So it's very cyclical, you know?
Speaker: And I wonder what that is like.
Speaker: Like I'm in a really good spot here.
Speaker: So maybe like mentally.
Speaker: And so maybe they don't, they're like the good ones are like, oh, you don't need my help.
Speaker: And the naughty ones are like, oh, she's unfuckwithable right now.
Speaker: So we'll just leave her.
Speaker: Hey, you know, I think there is something to that argument.
Speaker: You know, it's that, again, it's that mindset.
Speaker: I think it's that intention, right?
Speaker: Like after cases, you know, when I was investigating a lot of cases at one point, I had stuff following me back home.
Speaker: And it was very unnerving.
Speaker: And it wasn't until, you know, and this gets into a different subject, but it wasn't until I kind of got right with my spirituality, so to speak, that I, that that started to subside.
Speaker: And again, being in that right mindset, right?
Speaker: Having that positive mindset.
Speaker: And I had always heard, you know, from other investigators, especially those who worked on more of the demonic type cases, you have to, you know, they,
Speaker: They always used to say, you know, you got to get right with God before you go on the case.
Speaker: And I always, I never understood what that meant.
Speaker: Now I understand what that means.
Speaker: It means you have to be in the right frame of mind because sometimes these forces, they will feed upon fear.
Speaker: They will feed upon fear.
Speaker: that inner darkness that you have, and it'll just, you know, like we talked about much out of it.
Speaker: And I think that's really what takes place in some of these more negative type hauntings.
Speaker: Again, it's all speculation, but it's something we have to consider, especially when you look at a lot of these case reports.
Speaker: We have to speculate in this field a little bit.
Speaker: We're not going to speculate and say these are all the answers, but there are patterns that cannot be ignored.
Speaker: Once it keeps happening the same way to people across the world that have never met,
Speaker: You have to.
Speaker: You have to say, like, there's something here.
Speaker: And with the – I saw UFOs the first time.
Speaker: I was kind of, like, afraid of my stepdad, to be honest.
Speaker: And if his side of the family listens to this, they'd be like, oh, why?
Speaker: Well, he was not a nice person all the time.
Speaker: So –
Speaker: going outside, sneaking outside at night to look at the stars and look for things in the sky, whatever I was looking for.
Speaker: I was looking for constellations and I was a weirdo.
Speaker: I was expecting to see a spaceship because I just, for some reason, I was a weird kid.
Speaker: There was going to be a spaceship, obviously, coming to pick me up.
Speaker: I felt like somebody was going to come pick me up.
Speaker: It was super weird, but something did show up and it was beautiful at first.
Speaker: But again, you go into this space and
Speaker: of just like, I feel like your energetic feelers are just like stretched out after that.
Speaker: And they're seeing and perceiving more.
Speaker: It's almost like hyper, it's hypervigilant, you know?
Speaker: And it's also like, you know, if you've been through a lot of trauma, your adrenal
Speaker: system kicks in and sometimes it never goes back to normal.
Speaker: So you're more perceptive of things.
Speaker: Grandmaster, hello.
Speaker: You showed up in the chat.
Speaker: I love Grandmaster.
Speaker: I accidentally blocked him one time and didn't know it.
Speaker: It was kind of, it was super awkward and I'm still sorry, but it was an accident.
Speaker: I will save your question.
Speaker: I will ask him this, but since we're talking, we're going to skip in questions.
Speaker: I, you mentioned getting right with God and this is an interesting thing.
Speaker: And
Speaker: You are your Christian.
Speaker: And this question, I know it was later in the notes, but how does this affect?
Speaker: So for me, I was raised Catholic and my grandma was a medium and did cards.
Speaker: And she definitely practiced a little like Santeria on the side.
Speaker: She did do weird things, eggs and candles.
Speaker: So but she was never a God, was her God.
Speaker: Like she would she would be like, there's a demon in the hallway.
Speaker: I'm not afraid of you.
Speaker: You know, like.
Speaker: I've got, you know, I've Jesus, you know, she'd start rebuking him or it.
Speaker: And I just felt like when I was super close to God, the intent, the attacks were more intense and more demonic feeling.
Speaker: And I guess, I don't know if everybody's supposed to feel, be in a different faith or belief system or some say religion, you know, when I finally encompassed the fact that I was a witch is when they stopped messing with me.
Speaker: And then this one pastor like messaged me and he's like, well, it's because they've got you now.
Speaker: The demons got you.
Speaker: They're not going to mess with you now.
Speaker: They know you're theirs.
Speaker: And it's just, I was like, yeah, but like, I was just like, you know, I still fall into like the, our father, like if a demon's hanging, trying to,
Speaker: come around.
Speaker: You know, like I go back to the old school Catholic prayers.
Speaker: I still call St.
Speaker: Michael.
Speaker: You know, like it's one of those things where like it's habit, like you just, it's that energy or that person or that being that you know is going to have your back.
Speaker: And a lot of people, that is God.
Speaker: But I remember
Speaker: trying to scream like Jesus's name and some of these attacks and then these astral attacks or even these physical demonic attacks as a child.
Speaker: And it felt like something was covering my mouth.
Speaker: So what, why does some people, why does it work for some people and some people it doesn't work, you know?
Speaker: Well, yeah, that's a really good question.
Speaker: And, you know, that's, it's a confusing question, right?
Speaker: Because it's like, um,
Speaker: know it right like you you'll if you hear about all of these feel-good stories right about like you know yeah since we're on top of christianity you know about being christian and all that stuff right but what you don't hear is some of these horror stories right you don't hear about some of these struggles and um you know we can look at it from a whole bunch of different perspectives um you know i was
Speaker: I wish I had a lot of these answers, but I don't.
Speaker: Again, I just think about other approaches, other perspectives, right?
Speaker: And like when I'm writing the book, I try not to give the reader all the answers, but just to encourage them to begin asking questions.
Speaker: When it comes to spirituality, it's a very personal journey, right?
Speaker: So I think what you encountered, although similar to maybe someone else, it's tailored to you.
Speaker: And a lot of the paranormal
Speaker: or supernatural events, whatever you want to refer to them as, they're tailored to individual people, right?
Speaker: So to answer that question, you might be the only one who can answer that question.
Speaker: You know, some people, some religious scholars might look at that and say, well, I don't know, like, you know, the evil side wants to destroy humanity.
Speaker: So, you know, if they're not giving you a fight,
Speaker: then they've already won right you know it's like and then other people might say well if you're not struggling in your spirituality then it means that you're not on the devil's radar you know um so maybe there's an aspect to that perhaps um maybe not um maybe there's other forces at play like internally right like maybe maybe it's not demonic that was keeping you from
Speaker: you know, uttering, you know, Jesus name, for example, like, but maybe that was something psychologically, right, like inside you or some sort of internal component.
Speaker: We don't know, right.
Speaker: But again, I think it's, it's healthy to ask these questions.
Speaker: And I always encourage people when they're trying to seek out a healthy church family, if
Speaker: if that's what they're going to.
Speaker: And side note, if you want to become a Christian, it's a terrible hobby.
Speaker: Please don't get into it.
Speaker: Only do it if you really are motivated to do it and you really feel compelled to.
Speaker: But it's a hard life.
Speaker: But when you're looking for a church family, find one that allows you to ask these questions.
Speaker: It doesn't force feed you this information, but allows that free thinking.
Speaker: Because again, it's
Speaker: it's meant to enhance
Speaker: you know, your, your spiritual journey to, to help guide your spiritual journey, whatever that journey is.
Speaker: But again, it's, it's tailored to each individual person, I think.
Speaker: So short answer, I have no freaking clue.
Speaker: I just, I was curious, you know, about thoughts.
Speaker: Cause a lot of people shy away from talking about, you know, like the beliefs and you know, a lot of people like might be like, Oh, well, of course you're going to ask the Christian guy, these questions you're a witch.
Speaker: You know, I'm not that person.
Speaker: You know, I,
Speaker: I respect all belief systems and I, I find the Bible has so many fascinating things in it and strange things in it, you know, like you could, you could catalog the strange things in the Bible and write a spectrum part two, you know, because of the thing, like the book of Daniels, like I always talk about it because it was just the one that stands out to me.
Speaker: Like what in the world was going on with it?
Speaker: It's super weird, you know?
Speaker: But I had to ask, cause I was like, I wonder why, you know, it just, like you said, it's, it's almost like it's tailored to the person.
Speaker: So it's,
Speaker: Yeah, and I think like Christian leaders especially need to be, you know, they need to be aware of that, right?
Speaker: Because like I've had a lot of these conversations with people high up in the church and I've even had experiencers write to me from the church, you know, and it's really, you can sense their struggle with it because not everything is answered about
Speaker: mysteries of the earth, right?
Speaker: And I think that's okay, right?
Speaker: Like church leaders need to be aware that it may not be a simple topic that can be explained away in simple means, right?
Speaker: And if we're going to dismiss certain accounts and instantly put that blanket term of it being demonic, well, that's going to turn a lot of people off, right?
Speaker: And where are those people then going to seek counsel from?
Speaker: not going to be from the church then because they're going to be burned by the church.
Speaker: They're going to seek it maybe in an unhealthy way.
Speaker: And that's how these cults, I think, form, right?
Speaker: You see a lot of this twisted thinking and just extreme thinking, especially in today's society.
Speaker: And it's really kind of like a shame
Speaker: It's a shame to see that, especially when we're, again, from a human perspective, we always try to look at things in a black and white manner, in good versus evil.
Speaker: Well, I like to bring up, you know, and you brought up the book of Daniel.
Speaker: I like to bring up the book of Joshua in the Old Testament, right?
Speaker: There's one particular event that took place in there, and I love this event because it just illustrates perhaps what the phenomenon could be echoing as well.
Speaker: you know, in this past, in the story, like Joshua was on this top of this mountain and he's, you know, planning his attack, you know, into this city of Jericho.
Speaker: And then he sees off to the side, he sees this guy just standing there, right.
Speaker: With a sword in his hand and Joshua goes up to him and he goes, you know, are you for us or our enemies?
Speaker: And the man replies, neither.
Speaker: You know, I am, I am part of the Lord's army.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: What that tells me is that there are forces at play that may not have anything to do with us.
Speaker: They may just be neutral, but they may have an agenda that is outside of the realm of human logic.
Speaker: And so for us as human beings to look at everything from a perspective of human thinking, I think that's a disservice to the field, especially to this research, because it may not operate that way.
Speaker: And like you look at like a lot of the reports in the news media today with all these UAP videos surfacing, right?
Speaker: And all these government bodies like talking about this and saying, we don't know what it is, but we know something is there.
Speaker: Well, that doesn't surprise me because again, they're looking at it as, is this an enemy or is this an ally?
Speaker: Well, maybe it's neither.
Speaker: So I just try to encourage people to think along those lines sometimes.
Speaker: It may need us, but it may not be in the way we hoped or wished.
Speaker: Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker: That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker: And we'll find these encounters in all sorts of spiritual texts from all over the world, going all the way back to recorded human history, you know?
Speaker: So it's very interesting.
Speaker: These entities show up and...
Speaker: We don't know what they are.
Speaker: That definitely brings an element of ontological shock for some people.
Speaker: You know, I was told my whole life, it was this way.
Speaker: Like there was, you know, this belief system, this God has my back, you know, like whatever God you may have, you know, and all of a sudden this other thing comes and it doesn't fit into what I've learned my whole life or what, you know, my, what the stories have told me passed on through generations, you know.
Speaker: And, you know,
Speaker: it's just how, have you had any sort of like ontological shock period yourself where you're just like, what is going on?
Speaker: Like I don't like, cause I've gotten to points myself, you know, I'm not going to ask you a tough question without giving a little more.
Speaker: I don't even believe in anything.
Speaker: Sometimes I'm like, I don't even know anymore.
Speaker: Like there's just so many different things like, and so, but some people, this is very serious because this is a person that, you know,
Speaker: has this faith and it's rocked by this experience for better or worse.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, um, have you ever gone through any period like that?
Speaker: And I'm only asking because I want people, I have a big heart for experiencers and I get contacted by a lot of people that, you know, um,
Speaker: they are kind of having like the, they're questioning now and where they've never questioned before because they've had this strange experience.
Speaker: So I kind of try to give people some relatability from people that like study this, you know?
Speaker: Well, yeah, I, I, I certainly have, you know, it, I started questioning this, especially when I was coming back to my faith.
Speaker: You know, my study in this subject was looked at as rather contradictory, you know?
Speaker: And I had a lot of people ask me that question, like, hey, don't you think this challenges your belief system, calling yourself a Christian?
Speaker: Like, how can you pursue this and also pursue Christianity?
Speaker: And I had to ask that tough question to myself, like, yeah, is this contradictory?
Speaker: You know, am I sounding like a hypocrite here?
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: what I do with a lot of tough answers, a lot of tough questions, again, from a spiritual background is I just, I just go in a prayer, right?
Speaker: Like, okay, God, like, what do you want me to do with this?
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: You've obviously picked my curiosity in this subject, but you've also, you know, helped me kind of value what you're presenting and what you're showing me in this
Speaker: the quote unquote wisdom that you're giving me, right?
Speaker: But what do you want me to do with this?
Speaker: And the answer that I was kind of led to believe was, why do you have to separate them?
Speaker: And
Speaker: again, having that good network of people that you can kind of bounce ideas off of certainly helps.
Speaker: I remember meeting this one minister in training, and he told me, he said, you know, the Bible is filled with supernatural stuff.
Speaker: He said, so God's meeting you where you are, you know, and there's a lot of people who want to share stories with you.
Speaker: You know, if they,
Speaker: there's nobody in, according to him, there's nobody in the Christian field that's doing this.
Speaker: So he said, like, just see where it leads you.
Speaker: I was like, yeah, you know what?
Speaker: Maybe I will.
Speaker: And just see where it leads me.
Speaker: And I've had some really interesting conversations with people.
Speaker: But again, I don't push my ideals on somebody else.
Speaker: Because like I said before, right, the spiritual journey is a very personal one.
Speaker: And what I'm going through is way different from what someone else is going through.
Speaker: If I have like advice or insight that I can share with them, I'm happy to, but I'm not going to, you know, do what other people did to me when I was a kid.
Speaker: Let me talk to you about Jesus.
Speaker: Please, you know, I don't want to, there's nothing worse than unsolicited advice.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so a lot of times I think people, especially those in religious circles, overstep their boundaries and they think that, you know, their job is to spread the gospel.
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: you'd have to do that respectfully, of course, because there's a lot of people, you know, like such as yourself, right?
Speaker: You have different, you have different belief systems and that's, that's great.
Speaker: I think that's awesome.
Speaker: I think having everybody come together with all these different belief systems and just kind of learning from one another, just like in the paranormal community, the UFO communities, right?
Speaker: Like we need to learn from everybody and we need to kind of like,
Speaker: come together, right?
Speaker: Because this is a mystery.
Speaker: This is a human mystery.
Speaker: And if we're just busy fighting amongst each other, right?
Speaker: And just kind of like,
Speaker: going at each other's throats because someone else has a different viewpoint than someone else.
Speaker: Well, that's not going to get us anywhere, right?
Speaker: It's just going to make more enemies.
Speaker: So that's why I try to present questions, not answers, but just questions and encourage that thought process, that thinking process, because I think that's important no matter what the field is.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: And that's a lot, to be honest, what, you know, um, pastors need to be more open-minded because people are afraid at sometimes to talk about, you know, strange experiences that are not, that seem like they're out of the realm of biblical texts when I bet you, you can find anything in the Bible, you know, like if you, if you look hard enough.
Speaker: So, uh, it's just one of those things where I like to, I, I like having, um, Christian people on too that study, uh,
Speaker: the strange things in their religion and are open to that because I myself, you know, I have friends coming to me that are just definitely like, no, like I don't, I don't know if I believe in God after this experience kind of thing.
Speaker: So it's scary because losing your faith is very scary and it puts you in a very vulnerable and alone place.
Speaker: And that could kick up other activity in the house too, like poltergeist stuff.
Speaker: So, um,
Speaker: I have a question.
Speaker: You know, do you study a lot of it?
Speaker: Because I have a question in the chat from Grandmaster.
Speaker: And do you study a lot of the mechanisms of how UFOs work?
Speaker: Or is this not the question for you?
Speaker: Yeah, no, sorry, Grandmaster.
Speaker: He's asked, you know, how do you think UFOs work?
Speaker: Electromagnetic, kinetic force field manipulation.
Speaker: And if you don't think that, get a digital magnetic levitation module.
Speaker: Hey, that I don't know that this is a Justin question, Grandmaster.
Speaker: He's not, he's not into like the mechanisms of the UFOs, just like the encounters.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Not to like answer it for you, but just, you know, I read his book, so he doesn't talk about a lot of the technical stuff when it comes to like the nuts and bolts UFO stuff, but yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And you know, I, Grandmaster, you probably heard of Bob Lazar.
Speaker: I think that's a good starting point.
Speaker: You know, if,
Speaker: I think a lot of what he talks about does make sense.
Speaker: Again, from a layman's perspective, right?
Speaker: I'm not a scientist, so I don't know for certain, but,
Speaker: That would be my best advice is to kind of go down, see what his research is.
Speaker: Bob's definitely on to some stuff.
Speaker: A lot of what he said, people were starting to be like, oh, well, that's right later on.
Speaker: But back to the book and some terms that you use, because these are terms that not everybody has heard before.
Speaker: And I think that it's nice to have different descriptors of
Speaker: things for these sorts of experiences.
Speaker: What is theophany and how does it apply to the spectrum?
Speaker: And, you know, just bringing it back to the spectrum of paranormal things that people experience.
Speaker: Yeah, well, we're going to get into all sorts of, you know, spiritual topics tonight, right?
Speaker: It's a Tuesday.
Speaker: I know, I know.
Speaker: I have to, I go right in, you know, like, like, I feel like I like those deep, strange conversations.
Speaker: Like I just, you know, when else am I going to get a chance to ask you next year's mystery of space and sky, you know?
Speaker: Yeah, no, no.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: You know, because again, it's,
Speaker: there's a lot of really interesting concepts, right?
Speaker: In, again, from my perspective, like Christian Bible that I think can apply to the paranormal.
Speaker: And one of these is theophany, right?
Speaker: It's this visible man.
Speaker: Well, theophany in theological terms is this visible manifestation of deity to humankind.
Speaker: You know, for example, you know, when God appeared in the Bible,
Speaker: He appeared in various forms that could be physically observed, such as like burning bushes or like a pillar of clouds or fire or storm.
Speaker: You know, God frequently would take on the shape of angels or several angels.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Before later taking on the human form of Jesus.
Speaker: So and look at how like Jesus spoke to his disciples, too.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It was he opted for parables instead of direct answers to questions, which I think serve to illustrate these theological principles that that we as human beings could better grasp.
Speaker: So let's take this a step further.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And let's look at, for example, the famous psychic and remote viewer Ingo Swann.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: He brought up a related point in his book, Penetration.
Speaker: He learned that when remote viewers perceive something that they didn't understand, they tend to explain it in ways that made sense to them.
Speaker: And Swan referred to this as an analytical overlay or the ability of the mind to overlay something unknown and unrecognized, unfamiliar with this mental image that is recognized.
Speaker: And I think people do this all the time, right?
Speaker: With like their thinking, you know, they basically try to make sense of the chaos.
Speaker: And, you know, I think we can apply theophany to I think the paranormal because I think it might just be taking on various forms and shapes for us to perceive, for us to see.
Speaker: Maybe that's not the truest form, right?
Speaker: Maybe that's just...
Speaker: a way for us to recognize it.
Speaker: Because again, you look at like how this phenomenon has changed over time.
Speaker: I mean, just look at like the shape of the UFO, right?
Speaker: In the 1800s, right, there was like this airship and then it evolved to flying discs, right?
Speaker: And then it evolved again and then again.
Speaker: And now it's just like these balls of light, right?
Speaker: So it's like, even though all of this may have existed all at the same time, it's just the common mindset, I think,
Speaker: it reflects our views in society and what we understand.
Speaker: So like, you know, say like you take like a cell phone and you go back to like the 1700s, they're not gonna know what a cell phone is.
Speaker: They're going to think that's something else based on their own preconceived notions and their own perspectives.
Speaker: So I think this concept of theophany can be applied to this realm.
Speaker: What it is we see may not be what it is
Speaker: truly.
Speaker: So that's how I kind of like look at it.
Speaker: And I think, you know, when we're interviewing witnesses, we need to be careful not to get so caught up with the experience itself, we need to look at, okay, how did that experience kind of
Speaker: reshape their thinking or what lasting effect did it have on them, you know, psychologically, physiologically, you know, biologically.
Speaker: Like, so that's kind of where I'm with in terms of like my research, just looking at things differently, a different perception, so to speak.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: A lot of people that have experiences like you.
Speaker: So you have an experience.
Speaker: You see a spirit in your house or a men in black, maybe, or just, oh, my gosh, in your book, there's these weird people.
Speaker: They're like they're like human, but they're doing a horrible job at being human.
Speaker: It's like putting on a bad human costume.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, oh, we got a nice comment from Juan.
Speaker: Justin is my favorite paranormal investigator.
Speaker: Is this your friend or did you pay him to say this?
Speaker: I'm just kidding.
Speaker: Yeah, I'll Venmo you after the show, Juan.
Speaker: So he's... No, Juan, one side note, Juan runs a great podcast called the MRP Show.
Speaker: And he actually... I'll have to check it out.
Speaker: He's actually... Yeah, he's interviewed witches in the past.
Speaker: So... I'm a space witch, Juan.
Speaker: So, you know, let's talk.
Speaker: You guys should talk.
Speaker: It's an incredible show.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: It was one of the first shows that interviewed me.
Speaker: So he's always followed me.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: So there you go.
Speaker: Well, you're a great talk to you, and I love your presentation.
Speaker: You came on stage at Mysteries of Earth and Sky.
Speaker: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker: Mysteries of Space and Sky.
Speaker: I just keep changing it every time I say it.
Speaker: I wrote it down because I keep doing that.
Speaker: It's the ADHD, and I can't read sometimes.
Speaker: Mysteries of skydiving.
Speaker: Mysteries of the sky, of deep space.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, it's just one of those things, you know, like it's just so freaking weird.
Speaker: All of it's so weird in the best way possible because life would be so boring if none of this happened.
Speaker: I mean, I don't want to say that because some people have really had traumatic and I've had ranging from it's an angel, you know, to it's a goddess to oh, it's Thor, you know.
Speaker: No, I'm not lucky enough to be visited by Thor, but, you know, or, you know, like it could be very terrifying for people or it could be beautiful.
Speaker: So that's all I'm trying to say is, you know, but for for me, it's like you can't imagine your life without strange things happening after a while.
Speaker: I do have a question because what caught me with your presentation was the whole men in black situation because we hear about it, you know, obviously the movie, people know about the movie, but these were around long before that.
Speaker: These guys would just show up.
Speaker: Who are the men in black in your experience?
Speaker: How did you, because I feel like that's kind of something that stuck out because I never, I've heard people encounter them.
Speaker: But you almost study these non-human intelligences and these men in black.
Speaker: So who are they and what are they like?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the men in black are equally fascinating and equally as annoying, in my opinion.
Speaker: But, you know, when we hear that term, right, tossed around in popular culture, you know, most people instantly jump to Will Smith, Tommy Lee Jones, right?
Speaker: You know, that film franchise, right?
Speaker: these black clad individuals that are running around with their neuralizers trying to you know take away you know ufo witnesses and all that stuff but in reality i think it's a lot more complex than that and um what what i think is going on with all the reports that i've either received or researched is that these m mib encounters they um or strange people encounters or non-human intelligences or non-human entities uh they have unusual
Speaker: traits about them.
Speaker: And I think that is the common thread.
Speaker: You know, they have these unusual mannerisms or appearances that either scare, you know, the bejesus side of people or leave them quite disturbed by it all, you know, and it's one that often trails the UFO experience, which is why it's been closely associated with UFOs, but it's not just limited to UFOs.
Speaker: You know, it can also surface, you know, because of paranormal experiences, even cryptic cases.
Speaker: So, but I like it because it's interesting.
Speaker: It's different.
Speaker: Not a lot of people are studying this.
Speaker: I just happened to, you know, go into like a couple of these.
Speaker: And again, now a lot of my research tends to be, you know, centered around that.
Speaker: And I think a lot of times people come to me with their,
Speaker: weird, strange people encounters.
Speaker: You know, it's again, what's the modus operandi with these MIB?
Speaker: You know, maybe it's unknown as far as I'm concerned, but it seems to have like a dual purpose, right?
Speaker: Either information extraction or information suppression, or again, it would seem that way.
Speaker: Now, most have linked them to like military or government entities, but
Speaker: when you look at the conduct, when you look at the mannerisms of these people, um, people that may not be the case, you know, they may not be human at all.
Speaker: I, you know, I know that sounds rather far fetched, but you know, this is a possibility we got to consider, especially when you look at some of, um, some of their traits, you know, sometimes they can, uh, they can read minds.
Speaker: Um, sometimes, uh, the way that they speak, just, it can't be done.
Speaker: I interviewed a guy, um,
Speaker: I think he was from British Columbia recently, just a few months ago prior to the conference.
Speaker: And he told me about a really interesting encounter that he had where he and his father, they filmed these UFOs in the sky and not, they didn't go out one night attempting to film UFOs.
Speaker: They just, they were trying to film like a meteor shower up in Canada and they just happened to catch a UFO.
Speaker: And the object comes into view
Speaker: and he catches his own camera, and then it comes back the other way.
Speaker: And as it's coming back the other way, it actually cuts power to the camera.
Speaker: Now this gentleman, he had his camera plugged into the wall inside the kitchen, inside the house, he's out on the porch.
Speaker: And it just, it didn't kick off power to the kitchen or the house, it was just to the camera.
Speaker: And as soon as it went out of view, camera turned back on again.
Speaker: Well, anyways,
Speaker: The next day, he was en route to the supermarket or some sort of store, and these two guys come up to him.
Speaker: And they asked him about what he filmed last night.
Speaker: Well, now, he didn't share that with anybody.
Speaker: So how did they know?
Speaker: That's bizarre, right?
Speaker: And then he explained when they spoke, their lips didn't line up with the audio that was coming out of their mouth.
Speaker: It was almost like a poorly dubbed foreign film.
Speaker: So how do you do that?
Speaker: That's creepy stuff.
Speaker: And then these guys went on their way and they disappeared.
Speaker: He followed them and they just disappeared around a corner.
Speaker: So this is what I'm talking about.
Speaker: These strange people encounters.
Speaker: There was one, the Shane Sovar case up in Niagara Falls, where they actually caught these two guys on camera entering the lobby of a hotel that Shane worked at.
Speaker: He wasn't working that day when they showed up, but they interrogated some of his employees.
Speaker: And, you know, it's a very kind of like a viral video now that's circulated on the internet, but there's a lot of misinformation with that.
Speaker: I write about that case specifically in my book.
Speaker: And I look at a lot of these aspects, these really peculiar strange people encounters.
Speaker: I think it's going on a lot more than we care to admit.
Speaker: But again, if we put that men in black, you know,
Speaker: moniker on it, then it creates the stereotype.
Speaker: And if you ask people, have you ever had a men in black encounter?
Speaker: They're going to think about that.
Speaker: Did I run into Will Smith, Tom Lee Jones?
Speaker: No, but they could have had a strange people encounter that is very similar in nature.
Speaker: So I've started asking people about that.
Speaker: Have you had a strain, if you had an unusual experience
Speaker: with somebody that stood out to you as odd and not just the people that you see, you know, every day, right?
Speaker: There's a lot of people out there, but I mean- I lived in Scottsdale, so I've seen a lot of strange people.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So, but you never know.
Speaker: I mean, just get a lot of these, well, I'm getting a lot of these reports because I'm asking these questions.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I just find it fascinating.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: Gosh, you guys have to read his book.
Speaker: It's just weird.
Speaker: I don't even like not a lot weirds me out, but people weird me out and people that like pretend to be people that are not people.
Speaker: Just like the way that they look sometimes is just weird.
Speaker: I feel like I would be like all in their face.
Speaker: I mean, because I'm just, I mean, I go, I'm also studying it, but you don't, not everybody's going to think that there's like, Oh, somebody's talking to me.
Speaker: Wait, what's wrong with your face?
Speaker: You don't look human.
Speaker: Or, you know, why is your voice, you know, imagine if somebody is just talking to you and we're going about our business, we're not looking at their mouth.
Speaker: So we don't realize the voice is not syncing up or something weird like that.
Speaker: But have you had one?
Speaker: Have you had a strange human or experience?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, no, I have not had a definitive experience that I would say, yeah, that's an MID or that's a non-human entity.
Speaker: I've had some weird experiences that I've logged.
Speaker: Anytime I have an experience, I log it, right?
Speaker: I write it down.
Speaker: And I encourage anybody listening or watching the show tonight, if you have a strange event, please, please, please write down all the details of the event right after it happens or as soon as possible because you're going to forget some things.
Speaker: And I've had some really disturbing experiences, but I don't know what it was.
Speaker: You know, that's how the phenomenon operates.
Speaker: It always gets you to second guess things, right?
Speaker: You may have had a strange experience, but it leaves that little bit of doubt where you're like, did I really just see that?
Speaker: Like, was that like a...
Speaker: was that a full-bodied operation right there?
Speaker: No, that's impossible.
Speaker: And again, it's our worldview that comes into play and it kind of talks us out of it.
Speaker: I've had strange experiences, especially when diving into this topic.
Speaker: I remember when I was working on my very first presentation that I delivered for a
Speaker: for these two people who are setting up an event in October many, many years ago, in line with Halloween and stuff.
Speaker: And they had a lot of people from like ghost hunters and stuff talking, but it was like every week it was a different speaker, right?
Speaker: And I was the first one.
Speaker: And I remember working on that presentation.
Speaker: I'd never given a presentation on the Men in Black before.
Speaker: And as I was working on that presentation,
Speaker: Again, it's one of those things, and it sounds crazy, but I heard this very loud, like a mechanical or electronic beep.
Speaker: And okay, sure, it could be like anything.
Speaker: It could be like the AC.
Speaker: It could be, I don't know, some unit I had in my basement.
Speaker: But it happened like where I was, I was in the dining room and I was working on it.
Speaker: And I heard it like right next to the dining room.
Speaker: There was a little space at the, you know, in that particular house that I lived in.
Speaker: And it came from there.
Speaker: It was very loud.
Speaker: And it was just once it was just this loud beat.
Speaker: And I was like, what the heck was that?
Speaker: And I thought it was like, oh, maybe it was my AC unit upstairs.
Speaker: And I went upstairs, but that wasn't on.
Speaker: And I thought, okay, well, the only other electronic device is in the basement had a dehumidifier unit.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Was it that, like an alert tone or something?
Speaker: So I went to the basement, check that out.
Speaker: Now it's running fine.
Speaker: I've never heard that type of sound before.
Speaker: It was very unusual.
Speaker: Anyways, I thought nothing of it.
Speaker: And I just grabbed my laptop and I was like, all right, whatever.
Speaker: I'm just gonna sit in another part of the house and work in.
Speaker: And sure enough, I heard it again in a different area, but again, right next to me.
Speaker: It was almost like closer.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, this is weird.
Speaker: Is something trying to deter me from finishing this?
Speaker: But anyways, the reason I bring this up is after I gave the presentation, two weeks later, the event organizers, they had a strange people or strange person encounter that looked very similar to a stereotypical MIB.
Speaker: And they saw this gentleman approach them, but the way that he like traveled, it was,
Speaker: Like they're talking with each other.
Speaker: They look over, they see this gentleman that looks like an M.I.D.
Speaker: across the street.
Speaker: They think, oh, that's weird.
Speaker: They turn to each other and say, that's really strange.
Speaker: They look now he's right next to them.
Speaker: And they're like, what the heck was that?
Speaker: They look now he's completely down another street.
Speaker: Then they're like, what the heck?
Speaker: They come back.
Speaker: Now he's in front of the venue and he's peering his head into the front entrance, looking around.
Speaker: And then he leaves and goes down the street and they caught sight of him and they said he was wearing dark sunglasses.
Speaker: And this is at night, mind you.
Speaker: He's very pale in complexion.
Speaker: I think he may have been wearing a fedora, maybe like a trench coat, but he was wearing jeans.
Speaker: They thought, wow, this is weird.
Speaker: And prior to me giving this lecture, they had never had a men in black experience ever.
Speaker: Now, was he there for me?
Speaker: Possibly, but he was too late.
Speaker: What I find interesting is that the people speaking at that exact time, one of those speakers has had direct encounters with what I would refer to as MIB.
Speaker: He called them, he had a code name, him and his group of friends, they called him Beastie Boys, right?
Speaker: And I write about this in the book, but it was really strange.
Speaker: Was he there for them?
Speaker: Was he just kind of like, I don't know, trying to pick up information in the area?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's all these questions, but
Speaker: To answer your question, have I had a direct experience?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: But people around me have.
Speaker: And it seems like that could be how this works.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe you'll have an experience after we do this interview.
Speaker: If you do, tell me.
Speaker: I've had, I kind of want a men in black experience because I kind of just want to like get in their face and steal their sunglasses.
Speaker: Because if you're not human, what are you going to do?
Speaker: Like, are you going to call the police?
Speaker: But hopefully you're not CIA, though, because I just sold the CIA.
Speaker: I assaulted a government worker, if that's the case.
Speaker: Well, you know what?
Speaker: So on that note, I've had a lot of people say to me, look, if there's an MIB that confronts me, I'm going to be ready.
Speaker: I'm going to snap a photo.
Speaker: I'm going to be ready for them, ready to rock.
Speaker: But that's not how this works.
Speaker: It seems like when these forces are at play, I think they, again, just speculation, but they might have more of a control over us and our reaction, our thinking than we like to admit.
Speaker: Colonel John Alexander, who I know he's a controversial figure in a lot of ufology, but I think he's
Speaker: he's right on the money when he refers to this as a precognitive sentient intelligence right it's always precognitive in the sense that it anticipates our moves before we even make them and if you're having a true supernatural metaphysical experience it is going to know how you're going to respond to certain stimulus so
Speaker: it's going to react before you react.
Speaker: It's like this girl is going to try and steal my glasses.
Speaker: Nevermind.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: I'm not going to steal your glasses, men in black.
Speaker: Wink, wink.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, you know, people think they're going to act as they're like, I would have had my DSLR out.
Speaker: No, you wouldn't.
Speaker: You'd be like, what the heck is that?
Speaker: And by the time it processed, it'd be gone.
Speaker: You got it.
Speaker: And even if you do try to take a picture, how many times do paranormal investigators speak about this?
Speaker: The camera will lock up or when they try to take a picture of UFO, the camera will malfunction.
Speaker: Nothing will show up.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's how this works.
Speaker: This is a very elusive force.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Hey, if you can get a photo, great.
Speaker: If you can do, if you can take a pair of sunglasses, great.
Speaker: You know, and it's funny because there's sunglasses, right?
Speaker: I talked about this during my presentation.
Speaker: I was going to ask you about that next.
Speaker: That was the strangest thing.
Speaker: I mean, there was, you know, I was getting ready to leave to go to my day job in one morning.
Speaker: And I was, normally I would take the train when I worked up around the New York City area.
Speaker: And on this particular occasion,
Speaker: excuse me, I decided to drive up.
Speaker: But there in the front seat, it's a pair of dark sunglasses, a pair of black sunglasses.
Speaker: I wish I had them, I could show you, but it's, wow, what the heck, what was this?
Speaker: And I have no idea how they got there.
Speaker: I messaged everybody who I knew sat in my car within the last few months.
Speaker: And I'm very meticulous about keeping details and notes and
Speaker: being very organized.
Speaker: And I don't know how this got there.
Speaker: I locked my car door every night.
Speaker: Like, I don't know.
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: Was it a calling card from M.I.D.?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I still have the sunglasses.
Speaker: I just don't have them on my desk to show you.
Speaker: You don't wear them?
Speaker: Have you put them on?
Speaker: I have put them on.
Speaker: I did put them on because I thought, you know what would be interesting?
Speaker: Maybe there's some sort of hidden camera inside.
Speaker: Now they're just a standard pair of Foster and Grant sunglasses.
Speaker: I don't wear Foster and Grant sunglasses, you know, and no one else.
Speaker: So you're saying that MIB don't have good taste.
Speaker: I'm just kidding.
Speaker: Or maybe they just don't have the budget.
Speaker: They're on the government budget, so they can't.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, but they fit me.
Speaker: I could wear them.
Speaker: Maybe I'm too afraid to wear them.
Speaker: I have them in a case, you know, off to the side.
Speaker: It's kind of like a specimen.
Speaker: You're just like, what in the world?
Speaker: Yeah, that would definitely be strange.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's very, very strange.
Speaker: I've had people get crystals left that they didn't buy it.
Speaker: So this is a little more along the witchy-woo, crystal witch side.
Speaker: But I've met people that have had crystals appear.
Speaker: And I've had crystals disappear from my nightstand before.
Speaker: And I'm like looking everywhere for it.
Speaker: This is before kids tell kids do weird things.
Speaker: Like I joke that my, my youngest has a black hole in his hand.
Speaker: If he touches something, it's going to get lost and we're never going to find it.
Speaker: He had us looking in a drain pipe one time for keys that he said that he had.
Speaker: That's what we get for listening to a two year old, but he seemed confident that he put them in the pipe.
Speaker: And then we're riding the scooter down the road.
Speaker: He's like, Oh no, they fell in there.
Speaker: And it was another storm pipe.
Speaker: I'm like,
Speaker: You've never even been out here.
Speaker: Never mind.
Speaker: But yeah, so it was before kids.
Speaker: So yeah, things like crystals would disappear and then they'd just be there.
Speaker: I'm like, I just looked there and I looked under there and I looked in the bed, everywhere.
Speaker: So I haven't had cool sunglasses, but I've had rocks.
Speaker: disappear and appear.
Speaker: Hey, look, this is an aspect of these experiences that I think, again, is overlooked.
Speaker: It's missing objects, or I should say disappearing objects and reappearing objects.
Speaker: I spoke about it in some of my presentation.
Speaker: There's this woman from New Zealand who I interviewed, and she was experiencing it virtually every day for several years.
Speaker: I think it was linked to her stressful mindset at the time because now she still corresponds with me and gives me updates.
Speaker: And she says it doesn't happen anymore right now because she's in a really good state of mind, you know.
Speaker: And, you know, when these experiences take place, and I stress this to your viewers, don't just be caught up with the experience.
Speaker: Write down your state of mind.
Speaker: Did you have a very happy day?
Speaker: Did you have a very stressful day, a sad day?
Speaker: What was going through your mind just before the experience took place?
Speaker: And then how did you feel after the experience took place?
Speaker: We got to look for some of these more subtle clues.
Speaker: That could be an indicator of why these things are taking place and possibly why certain people are magnet, so to speak.
Speaker: You know, I kind of gave it, you know, another label because a lot of these terms, I, there are no terms for these things.
Speaker: I just make them up, but I call this like a stress induced psychokinetic discharge or SIPD, right.
Speaker: Where it was like people, um, they, they would be really stressed out and they would have this ability to affect objects, especially electronic objects.
Speaker: And I just find that so fascinating, you know, my, um,
Speaker: My ex-wife, she was one of these individuals and I saw it firsthand.
Speaker: And then I interviewed other people who had also had experiences with this.
Speaker: And it was just unbelievable.
Speaker: Like there was, yeah, just unbelievable stuff.
Speaker: I think it happens a lot more, again, than we're- Well, the people that are like, oh, I have bad luck.
Speaker: Things always break around me.
Speaker: Like pay attention to that.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Because when I was going through some stuff, I felt like I couldn't get in a checkout line without like the cash register or their thing crashing.
Speaker: Like I was just like, oh my gosh, not again.
Speaker: And people were like, well, how many times does this happen?
Speaker: I'm like, no, I'm always stuck behind somebody that's paying with change.
Speaker: And I'm also, and once I get there, the computer decides to freeze or do something stupid.
Speaker: And they're like, oh, well, I don't know what happened.
Speaker: Like it was just, you know, it doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker: Either technology has gotten Priscilla proof or again, state of mind.
Speaker: Like I am happy.
Speaker: So, and it's just, it really does have to do with, I think like people's emotional states.
Speaker: And we've, we've seen this over and over again with poltergeist cases, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, there, there has to be this connection.
Speaker: There's just too many case reports that I'm coming across personally and that other people are writing about that there has to be a link to this.
Speaker: But again, we're not, we're so caught up with this being an external thing.
Speaker: This could just be an extension of the human experience, which is, in my opinion, is just as impressive.
Speaker: It's just as fascinating.
Speaker: Or it could be a combination of both, you know?
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, it's definitely fascinating.
Speaker: And more and more people are leaning that way.
Speaker: And I think it's super cute because, and when you study spirituality, like from, like I was reading about different spirituality since I could read, I'm not even joking.
Speaker: you realize that people have known this and then we forgot about it.
Speaker: We oversimplified our existence to a point where if science doesn't show it or my chosen book or my chosen religious manual doesn't show it, then it's not real.
Speaker: And we have to remember that we're literally interwoven within dimensions and energy and that energy is sticky.
Speaker: And it's like,
Speaker: Like just the fact that you handed me a card in the book when I met you, it's almost like there's these filaments now.
Speaker: It's like the string theory almost, you know?
Speaker: So that's kind of like what I explained to people, especially mediums that talk to me that are kind of just starting to come into their experiences.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: um i'm like well they're like well i don't know who the person was though nobody died in this house they'll have like a spirit visitation or a visit a dream visitation and they'll be like but it was so real and it was like i was getting details for this person or you know this person wanted me i don't know who this person is but they keep i keep getting visions of them or i see them in the house as a spirit i'm like well it literally could have been the cash register woman or operator handing you your change or your card or giving you your groceries
Speaker: you know, and you connected with them and this spirit has been trying to get through to, to, to them, but has been waiting for that medium to come through.
Speaker: And I don't mean medium as like, I'm a psychic medium.
Speaker: I mean like literally like a medium for energy and information to go through and be conducted through you like a channel.
Speaker: And we always have these connections energetically everywhere we go, everything we touch.
Speaker: So, and that's just like what I was shown in like a vision before, um,
Speaker: doing like a spiritual, like a meditation journey, I was shown how kind of like energy sticky is the best way I could explain it.
Speaker: Like it sounds weird.
Speaker: Like, you know, gum has the filaments and you hug somebody and this is like your whole energetic body hugging them too.
Speaker: Your energy fields intertwine.
Speaker: You pull away for better or worse.
Speaker: Who is it?
Speaker: You know, like you don't know, but you've now made a connection.
Speaker: Yeah, that's really fascinating.
Speaker: And that's just what I was shown.
Speaker: And I've had other mentors kind of like explain it similarly.
Speaker: But it's almost like spider webs.
Speaker: You know, spider webs are sticky, but it's just, we're all like filaments everywhere.
Speaker: So that's why I talk about feelers and filaments a lot when it comes to stuff like that.
Speaker: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of like, what was it?
Speaker: Rupert Sheldrake, right?
Speaker: When he talked about the morphic resonance, right?
Speaker: Yes, yes, very similar.
Speaker: Yeah, this ability to where like people...
Speaker: pick up, you know, he did it with like his phone call experiments, right?
Speaker: Where when the phone was ringing, could people predict who it was before picking it up?
Speaker: And his research showed that, yes, this is possible.
Speaker: But it seems like that connection goes out and gets kind of like less like with actual physical distance, right?
Speaker: But
Speaker: it could be that there's this interwoven network, this neural network, so to speak, right?
Speaker: This consciousness thing that links us all together.
Speaker: And maybe we as a collective being, all these people, we have more power than we think.
Speaker: And maybe we need each other more than we think too.
Speaker: You know, instead of
Speaker: But then again, you know, this is a crazy talk, right?
Speaker: We're living in a divided states of America now.
Speaker: If anybody's on my show, nothing's crazy.
Speaker: You know, unless you're hurting somebody, all, you know, all ideas are welcome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Speaking of experiences, and I really wanted to ask you, you know, are there any experiences that just kind of like left you...
Speaker: either like you couldn't sleep after it or, you know, or just sort of like haunted you?
Speaker: Like, is there anything that, any experience that you can talk about that has sort of just, just like shook, shaken you, you know?
Speaker: You know, we've all had those happen where you're just like, damn, now I can't sleep because I heard this.
Speaker: And if that's happening, then what else is, you know, like you go down the rabbit hole of crazy thoughts at 3 a.m.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, they're all equally fascinating to me in one way or another.
Speaker: I mean, since I'm so used to this now, like nothing really fazes me.
Speaker: Nothing to the point where I'm extremely bothered by it or scared by it anymore.
Speaker: But there is one particular case that I wrote about in the spectrum that many people have told me truly disturbs them.
Speaker: And that would be the Lawrence Miller case involving like this very negative haunting that
Speaker: that really destroyed him and his family, you know, and it left him with this emotional scarring that he's still trying to get over.
Speaker: In fact, it was such a traumatic experience that it practically fried the, excuse me, the fear receptor in his brain and left him with PTSD, according to what he told me, you know, he went to see a medical professional after this.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: It was really crazy, quick synopsis.
Speaker: So this guy that I called Lawrence Miller, it's not his real name.
Speaker: In some of my later, earlier interviews, I actually did talk with the Lawrence Miller, he has a podcast and he came out during his show and he said, hey, that's me, audience.
Speaker: But anyways, he took a job,
Speaker: in Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker: And he relocated this whole family from Houston, Texas.
Speaker: This was, I think, the spring of 2008.
Speaker: Yeah, and he, when he went to this new house, things took a turn for the worse, like almost immediately.
Speaker: These unusual occurrences quickly escalated in the full-blown sightings of like these demonic, impolite creatures that tormented Lawrence and his wife, not his child, not his daughter, but just him and his wife on like a daily basis.
Speaker: And after two and a half years of living there, he and his family, they retreated back to Texas.
Speaker: And that was it.
Speaker: He never had any experiences after that.
Speaker: But this lingering PTSD after the incident, especially on the last night that he was there, where these things tried to kill him.
Speaker: you know, I know this sounds like far-fetched, but this is what he told me.
Speaker: And he said that one of these creatures, he said that there were two creatures in particular.
Speaker: One of them was like this impish creature and this other one was kind of this skeletal creature.
Speaker: And he said, I think like the impish creature like jumped on him while he was trying to sleep.
Speaker: And he
Speaker: basically like sat on him and just tried to like suffocate him.
Speaker: And he was punching this thing and he felt his fist make contact with this entity.
Speaker: So it was a very solid, very real thing.
Speaker: And he said, if it was his cat, he would have killed it because of the force that he was doing.
Speaker: If it was him, he would have had the effects, right?
Speaker: He was making contact with something and that was it.
Speaker: That was the last straw.
Speaker: But these things, it was a buildup of activity.
Speaker: And I originally heard from him.
Speaker: He was an avid reader of my site of normalparanormal.org.
Speaker: And when I was posting articles up there, I would
Speaker: I would encourage people to write to me if they had something that they would want to contribute.
Speaker: And one of the things he expressed interest in was writing a topic for the site.
Speaker: So I thought, okay, sure, what's it going to be about?
Speaker: He said, it's about living in a haunted house.
Speaker: And that had taken place not too long after he connected with me.
Speaker: So he sent me a draft of his experience and focused more on dealing with the post-traumatic effects, not necessarily going into greater detail with the experience.
Speaker: I thought that was rather intriguing.
Speaker: So I asked him if I could interview him more in depth about it.
Speaker: And when I did speak with them, and he was extremely reluctant at first, but when I was talking with him, you could hear it in the tone of his voice.
Speaker: He was struggling with this because he couldn't believe it happened.
Speaker: And he had lived there.
Speaker: And what's interesting is
Speaker: the uh the prior owners like it seemed like nobody lived there for more than like a year uh he and his family lived there the longest so you know it's a sad tale and uh when people read the description of that in the spectrum they're uh they're really shaken up by it uh because it's unlike anything else you've you've encountered before it's it's unlike anything else hollywood has portrayed and but this is real and um yeah so that disturbed a lot of people i actually had uh
Speaker: I had him speak to a group of my friend then too, because I thought it was important that people hear firsthand from the source.
Speaker: And when they heard him share his experience, they were even more disturbed by it.
Speaker: So I was like, well, there you go.
Speaker: So it's not fun living in a house.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: When you hear it from the person too, you see, especially with PTSD people, of all sorts of reasons for having it, they get that look like they're there again when they're telling you the story.
Speaker: And that was one of the ones where I was just like, because I had a lot of, I would call them demonic attacks when I was younger.
Speaker: And then sometimes it was like rays, sometimes it was demons.
Speaker: You know, it was just the same energy, like scary.
Speaker: Well, you know, one was scary because I looked like a monster and one was scary because it was a demon, you know.
Speaker: But I, when I was reading that, I was just like, oh my gosh, like.
Speaker: I can't imagine going through that with my family, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You have this beautiful family, like, and then something like that happens and, and either like sometimes like only one person is experiencing it.
Speaker: So then the spouse thinks they're going crazy and that destroys them.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: So it's just, it's, it has like a very kind of like dark side to these experiences.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, when I read that one, it was one of the ones where I was just like up and I was like, oh my gosh, like that poor guy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I think it's important because it just shows the reality of it, right?
Speaker: Like how many people...
Speaker: say like, oh, I wish I was abducted by aliens or I wish I lived in a haunted house.
Speaker: But then when you actually meet somebody who has undergone these circumstances, like, no, it's not fun.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: You joke about it.
Speaker: Like I joke about it because that's like my sixth sense of humor.
Speaker: Like that's the, everybody has coping.
Speaker: Mine is humor.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, but yeah, there, there's no way I would want to go back and relive some of those experiences or live in some of those places, you know, or do some of the stupid crap I did messing around with, you know, the darker side of like magic, I guess, and entities that why, you know, like what the hell is wrong with me?
Speaker: But, but thank goodness.
Speaker: I'm a good guy now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's how you learn that you want demons.
Speaker: That's how you get demons.
Speaker: But so flipping the coin, what, what is like the most beautiful experience experience that you've had with the paranormal?
Speaker: Has there any, has there been anything that has felt, you know, um, deeply spiritual or beautiful that you'd be willing to share?
Speaker: Like, you know, like some people talk about these like angel or entity visitations where, um, the best word we have for it is angelic, you know, um,
Speaker: Have you had anything like that happen or heard of any stories like that where somebody has just been, you know, changed for the better afterwards or it really like just like changed the way they thought about things in a positive way?
Speaker: Yeah, I have had some of those some of those experiences take place, you know, out of respect to those individuals who are involved with.
Speaker: I won't go into great detail, but it was.
Speaker: you know, yeah, it's really interesting, especially like when you have those experiences that answer some personal questions that you have, right?
Speaker: Like, or that reveals something that you never thought about before or confirm something that like, yeah, in fact, there is something else beyond this reality.
Speaker: When it's one of those types of experiences, I think that's, those are the ones that, it doesn't make me afraid, you know, it makes me smile.
Speaker: And I think a lot of times these things are taking place for someone else.
Speaker: Like, so, you know, to your viewers, like if you have an experience and it doesn't make any sense, don't instantly assume that it's meant for you.
Speaker: It could be like, like Priscilla was talking about earlier, right?
Speaker: Like it could be that you are the medium, you're the go-between to deliver a particular message.
Speaker: And, you know, some of these experiences, like I had, you know, certain events take place where I'm like, what the heck was that?
Speaker: And then I share it with one of my friends who I think it applied to.
Speaker: And they're like, oh my gosh, yeah, that was, you know, her deceased mother coming through, who I had interviewed, ironically, about a UFO experience that she had had way back when, and a strange people experience.
Speaker: And then she passed over to the other side.
Speaker: She had some interesting messages, it seems, for all of us friends of her daughter.
Speaker: It's interesting stuff.
Speaker: That's beautiful.
Speaker: I love stuff like that too.
Speaker: Cause we get caught up on like, give me the spooky stuff.
Speaker: Give me the creepy stuff.
Speaker: Um, you know, you're not, you're allowed to say I was abducted by aliens and they did horrible things to me.
Speaker: But you know, the second you start saying I was abducted by white beings and they started healing me or they started giving me energy work or whatever, you know, um, people start rolling their eyes or angel visitations, you know?
Speaker: I still think that there's angels.
Speaker: I mean, like, maybe that's just my way to describe these beings that I've experienced, but it's definitely beautiful.
Speaker: Like, and then I'm like, well, they didn't have wings, but it just felt like what their stereotypical angel would feel like, I would imagine, you know, beautiful, helpful, supportive in times of grief.
Speaker: You know, I had a visitation after my brother passed in 2014, my only brother, and it was an, I was a hot mess.
Speaker: It was a beautiful experience.
Speaker: I was a hot mess in a whole different way.
Speaker: Like this, like, cause they weren't like, it was weird, you know?
Speaker: And I remember telling, I was working at a Christian on salon at the time.
Speaker: And I remember telling the owner and his son and they were like, well, yeah, like, you know, the, maybe that's just, you know, and this was kind of like the in-between stage where I was like a Christian, which I know that sounds horrible.
Speaker: I got messages about that last time I said that too.
Speaker: So don't come at me.
Speaker: you know, I was working, you know, there's magic in the Bible.
Speaker: You just got to reread it from a different, you know, lens.
Speaker: But at the time I was in between like going towards like my witchy side and then like still loving the whole thought, maybe just cause I was brought up Catholic, you know, loving the whole, almost like the simplicity of having like, you have God and you have Jesus and you have this.
Speaker: You know, and then you dive in and you're like, it's not that simple.
Speaker: But just the thought of just like knowing for sure something has your back.
Speaker: That was very like alluring to me.
Speaker: You know, when you deal with paganism, there's all these different gods and goddesses that you're trying to work with and energy streams and people, you know, beings.
Speaker: And but that thing to me showed, you know, whatever it was, at the time, I only had the word angel for it.
Speaker: I hadn't delved on the whole light being and, you know, and then I started reading about light beings.
Speaker: I'm like, well, that's actually what I've been seeing.
Speaker: But I, cause I've never seen a being with wings kind of thing, you know, unless I was dreaming it.
Speaker: And that might be my mind just making sense of, like you said earlier, like, what is it?
Speaker: It's giving off its energy.
Speaker: It appears as it is, but your mind makes it.
Speaker: tailored to what you'll understand.
Speaker: So, but yeah, I remember I was a hot mess because I was like, wait, what is going on?
Speaker: Like I've seen aliens, angels, you know, like what is going on?
Speaker: Like what is it?
Speaker: And I, and luckily they were kind of like talking about it to me and it, it made me feel less crazy.
Speaker: Because they were like, well, yeah, people have this stuff happen, you know, like, whereas in Catholic school, if I mentioned like, hey, I saw a light in the sky, it was automatic, like, God doesn't do that, you're a liar, you know, like, go say 10 Hail Marys, whatever.
Speaker: So, but yeah, it's just the good experiences almost can be confusing as well, especially when you're like in a medial, the middle place between like faiths and what you, you know,
Speaker: Not faiths, but I guess religious choices or what do you believe in?
Speaker: You know, you're we're all walking that fine line and something can push us one way or another.
Speaker: And it was beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's why these things, you know, sometimes these events are just meant to be experienced.
Speaker: They're not meant to be explained, you know?
Speaker: And a lot of times, you know, we tend to, we try to make sense of it.
Speaker: We try to apply this.
Speaker: Well, what's the meaning?
Speaker: What's the, you know, what's the reason?
Speaker: What category are you in?
Speaker: You know, like.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Just enjoy it for what it is.
Speaker: You know, don't try to worry about all that other stuff.
Speaker: Just experience it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that's a lot of, when people run into trouble, they try to like label everything and categorize everything.
Speaker: It's just not always.
Speaker: super easy to do that because like you said maybe it's not supposed to do that and maybe that experience was just for you like people have experiences like you were like you were saying earlier like out of respect to people that had them sometimes the most beautiful experiences we don't want to share because they've been for you in a time that you needed it and it was on and then sometimes like you get that feeling like no this is for you like don't talk about it like it's for you it's almost like out of reverence for the experience that you don't go running your mouth about it or writing it down to everybody
Speaker: I have kept you past the hour.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: You know, I think I had two more questions.
Speaker: And one of them is revolving dream time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, people experience the dream time as an alternate reality in some cases, depending on your belief system.
Speaker: And I've always had the weight where like, like you're like, I am of the camp that you're traveling and you're sleeping and you're working and you're doing all this stuff, you know?
Speaker: And I understand there's dreams where it's like, yeah, I dreamt about, I don't know, buying some seafood at the supermarket because what I did, or that's what I need to do.
Speaker: Like there's the logical dreams, but then there's the ones where you feel like you're somewhere else.
Speaker: But people have also had visitations, right?
Speaker: From strange people.
Speaker: or non-human intelligences or even deities or, you know, in dreams.
Speaker: So what, what is your take on the whole dream visitation phenomena?
Speaker: Uh, well, I mean, from a, you know, there's a, there's a, all right.
Speaker: Like it's tough to say, right.
Speaker: Because how do you know it wasn't just a dream, right.
Speaker: Um, you know, or how,
Speaker: it could be that it was an experience right that just happened during the dream state um you know a lot of the a lot of those experiences people share with me kind of blur those lines um i try to not focus a whole lot of time to dreams because again i'm not a dream interpreter but you know i'd like to excuse me i'd like to um i like to focus on those that take place during the waking state but
Speaker: I would still listen to those experiences.
Speaker: And especially with like alien abductees, right?
Speaker: They have these really interesting experiences where- Oh, I think we froze.
Speaker: Oh, see, you're not allowed to talk about alien abduction dream experiences, apparently.
Speaker: You froze.
Speaker: No, you're back.
Speaker: You froze for a little bit.
Speaker: So- Weird.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Good timing.
Speaker: Good timing.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So let me- Knock it off.
Speaker: Now the weirdest begins.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, all right.
Speaker: So what's interesting is sometimes when I'm interviewing alien abductees is they'll have an experience just as they're beginning to wind down for the night or about to go to sleep, but they haven't fully fallen asleep.
Speaker: And in those situations, it's really tough to tell, right?
Speaker: But when they know that they're fully awake and they have an experience, now I'm like, okay,
Speaker: what is this?
Speaker: There was one gentleman was talking with me about, what's this, January.
Speaker: It was in, I think, December.
Speaker: I was talking with him.
Speaker: Yeah, it was December last month.
Speaker: And he was experiencing some really interesting stuff throughout his life.
Speaker: And he said he knew
Speaker: when he was going to have one of these experiences because he would get this intense vibration, like a physical sensation in his body.
Speaker: And he told me, he's like, that's how I knew they were about to show up.
Speaker: And one particular day, he felt this vibration all day.
Speaker: And then when he went to go to prepare for bed and prepared to go to sleep,
Speaker: that's when all of a sudden he felt himself, the vibration got louder and more intense.
Speaker: And then he, the way he explained it, he was like traveling through like, I think like a tunnel of light.
Speaker: And it was kind of like, I think the way he described it was kind of like 2001, a space odyssey, you know, at the end scene, sorry for anybody who hasn't seen it, but there's one particular scene where the traveler, the space traveler, he's,
Speaker: having all these like blurs of light going through and um all of a sudden this gentleman then is in this room where he said it was just pure bright white light but he saw that there are other entities in the room that were a different like a different shade of white if that makes sense you know like it was like you had the room which was really bright and you had the entities which were a little bit darker but he couldn't make out what they were so he didn't know if they're alien greys or whatnot but he said he felt
Speaker: like they were trying to tell him something, but they were conveying emotion.
Speaker: And it was just an overwhelming sense of all these different emotions that he couldn't understand what they were trying to say, but he thought that they were communicating.
Speaker: And then in an instant, in an instant, he was then kicked out of that room and was back in through that light tunnel and he's back in his bed and now he's fully awake now and he's like, what the heck?
Speaker: So again,
Speaker: What is that?
Speaker: You know, he's had some other experiences.
Speaker: One with his brother one time where they were kids and he floated up out of his bed, went through the wall, through the wall, down the hallway.
Speaker: And then he just fell at the end of the hallway, just fell from floating.
Speaker: And then he looked over and his brother had done the same thing.
Speaker: So they both floated out of their beds.
Speaker: You know, what is that?
Speaker: So, you know, and then there's the other aspect, right?
Speaker: Like a lot of times people say that, well, the deceased loved ones can also make communication with us in the dream state as I've experienced and others have experienced as well.
Speaker: So is there something in this dream state?
Speaker: On a less scarier note, you know, kind of like a funny note, you know, I've had some strange dreams, but there was one in particular that I did write down and it,
Speaker: It woke me up like just before my alarm went off.
Speaker: And this was in 2021, so a little bit over a year ago in the summer.
Speaker: And I was in a tall building and I was listening to, remember, well, it's still around, like Coast to Coast, right?
Speaker: With Art Bell.
Speaker: And I was listening to Art Bell and as Art ended the show, the broadcast with the words, Men in Black,
Speaker: In the dream, I looked out the window and I see a parked car with two MIB looking up at me.
Speaker: And in that moment, like a third MIB seemed to morph out of the first or second one.
Speaker: Then they scattered in a startled surprise once I noticed them.
Speaker: And as they fled from their parked car, like there was a glaring difference in their otherwise standard black attire, right?
Speaker: Their pants were bright red instead.
Speaker: And as I'm writing that, so that morning I was like, I got to write this down, right?
Speaker: So like, as I'm writing it down, I just happened to notice that I was wearing bright red shorts.
Speaker: And I wonder like, and I hadn't consciously thought about this, right?
Speaker: In fact, like I rarely wear red shorts.
Speaker: But on this particular day, I was, I made the choice, but not thinking about the dream.
Speaker: And I'm not like, oh, I want to match the men in black.
Speaker: That was a cute outfit.
Speaker: I thought, okay, are they trying to, you know, secretly attempt to recruit me?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: They're trying to give you fashion advice.
Speaker: Fashion advice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was the strangest thing.
Speaker: But, you know, again, what are those?
Speaker: Dream state's a weird state.
Speaker: I don't know what to make of it.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: And also those aliens were rude by dropping those brothers off in the middle of the hallway.
Speaker: Like at least that's another strange thing.
Speaker: Like the different ways people wake up from abductions.
Speaker: Like, really?
Speaker: You're just going to drop me in the middle of the hallway, you dick?
Speaker: Like put me back in bed.
Speaker: Fluff my pillow.
Speaker: You're going to do all that.
Speaker: But some people wake up outside, you know?
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: That's all very strange.
Speaker: That's what like, you know, again, we tried to put this label on thinking like, okay, these alien entities, if they're responsible for the abductions, that they are intelligent creatures, right, because they can travel to and from the stars.
Speaker: Again, we are putting that logic on it.
Speaker: Well, if they're that intelligent, why are they making some of these ridiculous mistakes?
Speaker: Like, why are they returning people with their clothes on backwards?
Speaker: you know yeah it's almost like a party joke that you play on one of your drunk friends like oh it's yeah you know why are they tucking people in like super tight with like this cover like you know it's just there's a lot of these aspects um with the induction experience that you don't hear a lot about but i think if people if people realize this they wouldn't immediately assume that these are intelligent beings um these are weird beings yes even with the mid right they're not
Speaker: They don't even appear extremely intelligent.
Speaker: Like I said earlier with the Shane Sovar case in Niagara Falls, they came to visit Shane at work on the one day he was not working.
Speaker: So
Speaker: If they're so smart and they can anticipate our movements before we do them, then how come they didn't see that?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: It just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker: None of it makes sense.
Speaker: None of it.
Speaker: So I see I'm looking at your skulls in the background.
Speaker: That was the end of my questions, but now I have a question about your skulls.
Speaker: So you've got the alien skull, but is that Raven anything to do with Edgar Allan Poe?
Speaker: Or is it just cool and you're like, yeah, skulls and ravens.
Speaker: No, you know what?
Speaker: I don't buy skulls.
Speaker: All of the skulls that I've got were just given to me as gifts.
Speaker: Every single one of them.
Speaker: You're weird.
Speaker: Here's a skull with a raven on it.
Speaker: Yeah, this one's like a, you got it.
Speaker: They're everywhere.
Speaker: And I just have like, yeah, so there it is.
Speaker: This is actually like a 3D puzzle skull.
Speaker: Yeah, I was wondering, what is it?
Speaker: Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker: So, but again, this is like a gift.
Speaker: Like, you're a poet.
Speaker: So I didn't know if you had to think for Edgar Allan Poe because tomorrow's his birthday and I'm going to his grave tomorrow.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So I'm taking the kids and everything.
Speaker: My friend's like, I can't wait to see how fucked up your kids are because you're taking, I'm like, no, they want to be ghost hunters.
Speaker: Like, so.
Speaker: You know, I just, I don't know.
Speaker: Like, I, I've always had like a, I'm drawn to like a, you know,
Speaker: darker writing, darker artwork.
Speaker: When I was in high school, I used to fit in with the Gothic crowd.
Speaker: I used to wear a lot of darker stuff.
Speaker: I just love that style.
Speaker: I love that stuff.
Speaker: That doesn't mean I'm obsessed with
Speaker: you know, even though, well, now people give you souls as gifts.
Speaker: So that's nice.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I was born on the day of the dead, you know, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker: But yeah, I just love it.
Speaker: I embrace it.
Speaker: And just, I don't know, with people out there listening, like, don't change who you are, you know, don't try to fit into a neatly packaged categorized box, because other people can better identify with you, like, just be true to who you are, you know,
Speaker: And even if you're a paranormal researcher or a paranormal investigator, and you're pursuing these things that have no clear direction or motive, or maybe there's not even a line of research devoted to what you're studying, keep doing it.
Speaker: Because we need people like you.
Speaker: We need the creative thinkers.
Speaker: We need the people who aren't afraid to challenge the cultural norms and the stereotypes that we've adopted for years.
Speaker: a lot longer than we should.
Speaker: So keep asking the questions.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: That's important to hear too, because with the whole like world of aesthetics and, um, this is aesthetic coffee, TikTok, and this is aesthetic paranormal, you know, um,
Speaker: aesthetic witch, they got like herbs growing out of the fucking their head, you know?
Speaker: So it's just like, it's like everything has to be like in a nice little niche and then people aren't really like that.
Speaker: I mean, sometimes it might be easier.
Speaker: I wish I was just one little, you know, easy thing, but I don't think anybody is.
Speaker: So it's important to hear that what you just said.
Speaker: And I think it's a great ending note, but before we end anything, do you have anything in the works?
Speaker: I told Juan, I would ask his question and it was also one of my questions.
Speaker: Do you have anything else coming up?
Speaker: Are you writing anything else?
Speaker: Are you, you know, you have anything happening soon?
Speaker: Yeah, I always have something in the works.
Speaker: Some of it I can talk about, some of it I can't.
Speaker: Some of it's interesting.
Speaker: I mean, you might see one of my cases that I covered in the book, the Gary Sudbrand case.
Speaker: I was approached by A&E.
Speaker: Their show The Proof is out there.
Speaker: So they might be featuring that case on a future episode.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I stressed to them.
Speaker: I said, look, if you're going to do the case, please put it in context.
Speaker: Don't just play the tapes and just give the backstory.
Speaker: If you're not going to interview me for the show, interview Gary himself.
Speaker: Get the full story.
Speaker: I covered it in my book.
Speaker: There's a lot of strangeness here.
Speaker: And again, it's not just one experience, right?
Speaker: It's a multitude of experiences that individuals have.
Speaker: So that's one thing you might see.
Speaker: I was approached to do a show right before the pandemic, but that kind of fizzled out because of the pandemic and whatnot.
Speaker: But I'm always looking for stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm working on more poetry.
Speaker: I'm working on a follow-up book to the spectrum.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a fun time to be alive.
Speaker: It's a frustrating time in our society, but it's also an exciting time.
Speaker: And I love how we can have conversations like this.
Speaker: We can have conversation with regular people now about UFOs or UAP because they're real.
Speaker: I mean, we're past that conversation now.
Speaker: Are they real?
Speaker: No, they're real.
Speaker: Oh, for sure.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: They're back in the news every day now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's interesting stuff and I love it.
Speaker: So that's what I'm working on.
Speaker: Go to my website, normalparanormal.org.
Speaker: I try to keep that updated regularly.
Speaker: If you have had a strange experience, you know, viewers tonight,
Speaker: in touch with me there's a contact form out there i'd love to hear your experience especially if you can't put it into a neat packaged up box um share it with me uh strange people encounters i love hearing about those so uh yeah we'll see what where the future the future takes me
Speaker: Very cool.
Speaker: Thank you so much for coming on and go follow him on, well, his web, I have his website in the description, so you should be able to find that very easily and follow his work.
Speaker: Go get the book, the spectrum.
Speaker: If you're watching, mine's not showing up because my green screen feature, but he has a picture of it behind him next to his salt lamp.
Speaker: Nice lamp.
Speaker: There we go.
Speaker: There we go.
Speaker: This is a, yeah, this is it.
Speaker: So get this at your, wait, this is a,
Speaker: Is it appearing?
Speaker: Is it appearing?
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We can see it.
Speaker: We can see it.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: I'm not sure if it flips it on the recording, but yeah, check it out.
Speaker: It's on Amazon.
Speaker: It's in your local bookstore.
Speaker: It's available worldwide.
Speaker: And look, if you hate it, let me know.
Speaker: I'll send you a refund.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: I just want people to read it.
Speaker: You definitely should read it.
Speaker: And it's also like it's easily read to like you can break it up too.
Speaker: It's not like one of those where like I read it super fast if that was interesting.
Speaker: But like you don't have to.
Speaker: Like it's nice to just have like –
Speaker: if you're reading something else and you want to read something cool, like you can read a chapter at a time and it's like a story, you know?
Speaker: So I like that.
Speaker: I like books like that, that you can break up, you know, and not be like, well, now you're hanging into the next chapter.
Speaker: Like fiction books do that, you know?
Speaker: So, but I like this one that you can just kind of like even hop around if you wanted to, but hang out for a minute after I end the broadcast.
Speaker: Thank you everybody who's listening.
Speaker: Carolina, I see you.
Speaker: She always calls me out when I post a picture of a book.
Speaker: that appears backwards, you know?
Speaker: I'm like, you just got to read it in the mirror, buddy.
Speaker: But you don't have to read that picture in the mirror that he just put.
Speaker: It showed up the right way.
Speaker: Please give the channel a follow, share, subscribe, go follow me on Spotify.
Speaker: I'm gonna up everybody's butt about that because...
Speaker: I just started moving things and it's time consuming to move things over to Spotify.
Speaker: And if you're starting to podcast, do it right away.
Speaker: Don't wait like I did because it was dumb.
Speaker: So I hope to see you guys soon.
Speaker: I'm not sure what I have going on next.
Speaker: I scheduled lightly with the anticipation of taking more classes and the classes got pushed to the summer because something else cool is happening.
Speaker: But yeah, I will talk to everybody soon.
Speaker: Have a great night and let me know what you think of the book and let Justin know what you think of the book.
Speaker: And yeah, I'll see you around.
Speaker: Bye.
Speaker: See ya.
