Cults

Transcript

Speaker: Welcome to Nim and Nyleen's Nightmare Cottage, where we explore history, mysteries, and other tales of the macabre. I'm Nim. And I'm Nyleen. Let the nightmare begin.

Speaker: Disturbing and mature content to follow. Into the nightmare, if you dare.

Speaker: Today's been a day. it has, yeah. It has been a day. It's been really hot. I like the storm that's happening. It's not happening at my house, I see. I checked my zip code. It is sun shining with zero chance of rain.

Speaker: That is crazy. I'm telling you, and the weirdest stuff happens in this little pocket I have over here. Yeah, well, and I don't live far here. live very close. Yeah, I could get there in 10 minutes or less. I'm not saying something because it's all side roads.

Speaker: So there. Yeah. There's like a lot of lights and that's the only reason it would take so long. like if I could just pass out the lights, it would take like six minutes. It'd be better if we just had like a tube that connected your house to mine.

Speaker: But like who would clean the tube and make sure there's not like lizards in it or something? You always instantly think of the logistics of cleaning in every hypothetical situation. Because I need it to be clean. Like that is my true nightmare. Like just the dirtiest. Like I cannot deal with things being dirty. You can't deal with things being dirty and I can't wrap my head around a ghost. Exactly.

Speaker: Speaking of doing dirty things, did you hear about this? There's like a crime lab analyst in Colorado who apparently she's been charged at this point. Her name's Yvonne Missy Woods.

Speaker: She'd have been accused of basically tampering with a bunch of DNA that was in this lab that was used for like like murder cases, burglary, sexual assault cases. Tampering how? So- According to nbc News, we're we're going to quote them here, but she was accused of altering and deleting quantification values, rerunning batches of DNA without documentation, and hiding potential contamination.

Speaker: Yeah. And no also, it says that she's alleged to have submitted reports that said no male DNA found in over 30 sexual assault cases in which DNA was found or contamination was present.

Speaker: And then when people started noticing, like they would go back and look at these cases for whatever reason, they started noticing that the paperwork was missing because she would she started deleting like the results that she would submit after some time to hide her trail.

Speaker: So then now all these cases are being thrown out. Like there is a murder case. There is a sexual assault case, like not so much thrown out, but lesser charges because there I mean, they're saying this could have been contaminated. And then imagine all the people that that could have gotten their they're a assaulter you know convicted. It's insane.

Speaker: But I'm sorry. that i didn't know if you'd heard about that. That is the first thing I think I've ever heard. And a woman did that? i know what That is the craziest part to me. And she was saying the reason she did it was she was just trying... trying to get through the caseloads. Like she's like, there was just so many caseloads and I felt like I just was trying to get through them and, you know, i was trying to get through them as quickly as possible. She's covering for somebody. You think so? Maybe.

Speaker: i just feel like that is a very, in i mean, it feels less of a let the intrusive thoughts win and more of a because that's a du thing to do. Yeah.

Speaker: I mean, that is, yeah. Yeah. So bad. there' you were destroying so many lives that. So many lives, yes. And now even the cases that she didn't mess with, those could be called in into question now too because she was on them and she was working on them and she's now known and convicted to have done this thing. How long has she been doing it? How long she had her job, I guess? It looks like decades. Oh, God. Yeah, it looks like it's been. She's been doing it since...

Speaker: She told investigators that before or around 2017 or 2018, some contamination was accepted. Oh my God. So almost a whole day. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, that is in fact a nightmare. Yeah. I'm sorry. Nope. Beginning in 2008, inaccurate reports affected over 500 cases.

Speaker: And so those cases are just the ones with the inaccuracies. But that's just like, that's just the ones like now everything can be called into question though, not just those, which is the worst part. And yeah, that's just, it's so horrible. And I understand that a lot of us just do our job. We get a paycheck and, you know, we collect it and it's just like, whatever, we're just working for someone else. But when you're in a public service, Yeah, in a public service sector like that, like that it is very important that you come to work ready to show your best every fucking day.

Speaker: Or at least not destroy a bunch of evidence and screw up a bunch of people's lives. I mean, it's pretty low bar.

Speaker: Tell me, tell me what you did. a rabbit ah nightmares that we have only just begun to touch on tell me tell me what you did How familiar are you with cults? Dude, I'm so scared.

Speaker: but I really like, no, like for real, like cults are like one of those things that like I'm almost like I like researching them, but it's like you can only research so far before it's like I don't know, man. Someone's going to come take me in the middle of the night or I'm going to wake up and be in the middle of doing like a ritual sacrifice. I don't know. I feel like mind washing, mind washing. Those are real words. Brain washing so real. Mind control. Well,

Speaker: We'll talk about that a little bit. When I started digging to see if there was something here I wanted to cover, it was immediately clear that there was a lot more in this hole than I had anticipated. And I anticipated quite the hole. I did find some dark and fucked up things we'll eventually talk about, but today I kind of want to just talk about cults in general. Okay, like the history? And then some.

Speaker: So let's let's start with what should be a simple question, but isn't. Okay. What is a cult? Religion. Well, that is actually technically one of the the... Webster's definitions. Sorry, guys. I don't mean to be, what's the word for it?

Speaker: Contrarian? Okay. yeah

Speaker: Sure. Let's use that word. I don't know. I was guessing. What word did you mean? don't know. Well, because that's usually what people call me when I do that. yeah so Obviously, it means a few different things. It does, like, one of the actual Webster's definitions does list it as a system of religious beliefs and rituals, also as body of adherence. So just any religion and its followers, right? Like that that's what that is. yeah There was also the ancient mystery cults. We know most about the Greek and Roman mystery cults because of the archaeological evidence that's been preserved. But there's evidence that the practices of the cults were established across the Aegean Sea and into Turkey and beyond. So we're really talking about any belief system within any group and not necessarily ones that were detrimental to their followers in the way that we're used to seeing now. Right. Like we're not talking about Jonestown kind of situation right now. Not all cults are meant to be that kind of way. Like it it is a group with a niche focus more or less. Like there's more to it, of course, but that... that like our D&D night could be a cult.

Speaker: I mean, if there's ritual. So there' there's requirements. If there's a ritual. There's requirements to... to kind of be viewed and in... Okay. But these mystery cults. The word mystery itself is actually derived from the Greek word musterion, which roughly translates as to close.

Speaker: Mystery cults were specialized religious organizations, and the two things that made them mystery cults is that there was secrecy. Mm-hmm. initiation. you're thinking like stonemasons and... Exactly. I mean, this isn't what that was, but it's that same idea. It's a society of people with... Influence and power, but they keep it... what's What happens in Fight Club stays in Fight Club. Exactly. Closed information. You have to be part of the group to know about it.

Speaker: So you officially had to be inducted into the group. Like it couldn't just be like you show up. You have to be part of it via ritual to learn anything of substance. Despite the requirement of secrecy though, these weren't closed groups. Anyone could and did join from all walks life.

Speaker: These groups weren't separate from public religion. They were just kind of more hyper-focused. Like they would look at a specific spot of that religion and and just kind of really dive into it. I mean, from what we know. Yeah. We can only know so much. But the members generally contributed to normal social expectations.

Speaker: Most of what we know about these are, again, from there are from artifacts left behind. There's not a lot of like books and secrecy was thing. Most of this is written down anywhere. most written accounts are third hand or even further removed than that. And I mean, you have to remember, like, especially I mean, there was no internet, right? Like everything was legend.

Speaker: Everything. You're right. Yeah. And it was already ancient at that point somehow. Another way to use the word cult is like idolatry, like a cult hit or someone that has a cult following. Yeah. and it just that Like fish fans. Yes. It just basically means they have a lot of very focused and dedicated fans. Sorry, fish fans.

Speaker: She's not sorry. But you're known for it.

Speaker: There's a lot of... Dave Matthews Band is another one. I didn't know that that was viewed that way. Yeah, man. Those Dave Matthews band guys get real crazy. Not crazy. They're just very passionate. Very passionate. Fair enough. I guess I haven't come across a Dave Matthews band aficionado. That's fun.

Speaker: But like you said, the word cult makes you kind of feel a sort of way, right? yeah The number one definition in Webster's for cult is a group with tenets and practices regarded as coercive, insular, or dangerous. Mm-hmm. That's the part. That's the kind of group we're going to focus on.

Speaker: The ones that are coercive, instillar, and dangerous. There's actually a lot of fringe groups that while unconventional aren't breaking any laws or causing any harm. They just like to sit in a field and drink goat's milk all day. And that's what their their belief system is based on That's what their their ritual is. Yeah.

Speaker: So let's look at this. What is a religion? We're goingnna we're going to look at Webster's for that one again, too. ah Relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

Speaker: And that's that's where you get into that idolization that you were talking about, even like outside of. you know, band. and That's like religious worship. Right. Idolization. Right. But so how is it determined if your group is a religion or a cult? Who decides that?

Speaker: Well, technically in the U.S. tax documents. Exactly. The IRS. The IRS is who decides that. If you're considered a religion, you don't have to pay taxes. and The IRS doesn't just pass that out willy nilly, right? So these groups, oftentimes perfectly legitimate, even if they seem strange from the outside, would get a sideways look because they were not deemed a religion, so they must be a cult, right? It's actually even worse than a sideways look. I mean, these groups that are a little odd get a lot of bad attention and I, you know, I don't know a lot about a lot of those situations, but it's it's delicate. It is very delicate.

Speaker: Psychiatrist Robert J. Lifton, a definitive expert on cults and other topics in psychohistory, defines cults as having the following characteristics. A charismatic leader who increasingly becomes the object of worship as the general principles that have originally sustained the group lose power. Yep. So like people aren't vibing as much anymore. So now things have to get crazy because you still have to keep following me.

Speaker: The second thing is a process called coercive persuasion or thought reform. Brainwashing, they don't like lot of... They don't like that word. but They don't like that We're taking back that word. the The reason we don't like that word is because...

Speaker: You can't make somebody believe something unless there's already a seed of it in there somewhere. i You can't fully like. Yes, but it's easy to break someone and convince them. There is absolutely ways to manipulate a person into thinking a certain way. 120%. And I have seen people in some of these cults who like their entire ideals and values like that they had been.

Speaker: brought up on for decades and decades suddenly just flipped for this specific cult that just vibed on their vibration, wavelength, whatever. So the third thing is economic, sexual, or other exploitation of some sort of group members by the leader or ruling members. think Manson.

Speaker: I mean, all of them. They all have some kind of like, they're either taking your money, they're making you have sex with them, they are making you do something for them. There's this one guy that got roped in. i did I don't remember which cult it was. I hate that I missed that, but he...

Speaker: was like a very accomplished author and this cult leader that he had been like strapped to for so long made him list him as a co-author even though he didn't have anything to do with anything oh yeah so he sucks yeah so half of his books have those other douchebags name on them and Sucks. That's the worst. Yeah.

Speaker: So part of what of makes cults, these kinds of cults, terrifying is that people from all classes, backgrounds, ages, and religions have fallen prey to these groups. Anybody seems to be susceptible. They really do get the the eyes though. Like that's so weird. Like when they've really been indoctrinated, there's that like that eye glaze thing that happens. And I swear it's not just that they're like really stoned. Like it's just...

Speaker: What the heck? I mean, you're just going with the flow, I guess. I don't i don't know. To narrow the scope just a little bit, because obviously this is a ginormous topic, we're going to look at cults specifically through u history and their historic catalysts. so So let's look at the macro level first. What's happening in the 17th century? I know you guys love a history lesson, right? and It's the 1600s.

Speaker: Thinkers are thinking. The scientific method has been broadly introduced and its merits expounded upon. Philosophy and science become the focus of many bored and brilliant brains. We have Isaac Newton revealing gravity to the world and John Locke screaming about freedom, equality, and independence of individuals.

Speaker: We have entered enlightenment. So as is wont to happen, when more science is understood, less focus is placed on the wrath of the gods being the cause of sickness and failed crops. How relieving. I know. Now we can just blame ourselves. And each other.

Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. um A few things start happening around this time. While religion is absolutely still a major part of everyday life, if nothing else culturally for those that weren't really in it anymore. Culturally.

Speaker: and It no longer has quite the stranglehold it once did on society. Mm-hmm. We're also seeing technological advancements for for more comfortable lives that give us more time to realize we don't have time to keep putting up with this whatever ever that happens to be This is largely an excellent thing for humans, but we know that there's always some assholes that find a way to ruin it. Always that. At least one.

Speaker: So colonizers were headed over to the new world to practice some religious liberty. They were all realizing faith and philosophy are up to interpretation. And some get a little more creative than others.

Speaker: A lot of how territories were divided came from the differences in just how chill or hardcore someone wanted to be about interpreting. Yep. Rhode Island exists for this reason. This dude, Roger Williams, had these crazy ideas that not only should people have freedom to interpret their religion without fear of persecution, but that church and state should be separate.

Speaker: Crazy. Really wild ideas. Yeah. i need it Especially and nowadays. Yeah. History definitely repeats itself. and So they banished him from Massachusetts Bay Colony. He went on to what is now Providence, Rhode Island and invited anyone who sought religious freedom to come and settle there. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: The cults that we see through the 17th and 18th century largely, though not exclusively, resemble the mystery cults of old in the way that they are taking an existing theology and reinterpreting it based on their current reality. Also important to note is the existence of the Great Awakening, which there was actually several of, the first of which began in the 1730s. This is when people started trending back towards religion. Tons of denominations were established during this time. Some stuck, some didn't. Some were traditional, some were less so.

Speaker: We're going to skip to the eighteen hundreds though. We have a lot of documentation for some of the vile groups that we have in this time. So we're just going to jump in there. So we have our wellness cults, like the Kellogg's Battle Creek Farm, Linda Hazard that we talked about a few episodes back. And while that's a much smaller thing than you think of than a cult, it has the hallmarks of it, the charismatic leader, the manipulation, all of that.

Speaker: Some can even say political parties are cults. Some could definitely say that. Cults are typically religious, politically, sexually, and or financially driven, since you mentioned that, or some combination of those things. Hazard did seem committed to her philosophy, but she was definitely exploiting her patience for wealth.

Speaker: People will typically give anything they have to feel better and live longer. If someone charismatic enough tells you that they have the way, just a small fee to hear the secrets, buy the book, hear the lecture, a bit more for personal consultation and treatment,

Speaker: Oh, you can't stop your treatment now. You'll simply fall apart. And you'll slip back and you'll never come back and you'll go even further. Exactly. Exactly. There was also the Oneida cult.

Speaker: This is an interesting case. It was actually a very liberal Christian situation. And they believe strongly in equality between men and women. They also believe that being selfish was a sin. Oh, okay. But that meant they they had complex marriages. Like you couldn't just have your own person. You had to share. Everybody had to share, which basically meant they were swingers.

Speaker: Oh. But you weren't allowed to get attached. They were a controlled community. Oh. And they grew enough until people were weirded out enough to oust them from the area. Oh. Yeah. The leader, John Noyes, took off with some followers while the remaining devoted members set up the Oneida Community Group as a manufacturing company.

Speaker: Oh. Their flatware is still popular today. All known cultural activity within the group ceased in the 1880s. But who gets the profits from the the silverware? the So they just like continued like... that the The cult doesn't exist anymore. Like the company exists with the name. Hmm.

Speaker: Sounds like a cult became a company. That is exactly what happened. But they didn't continue. Well, there's no evidence to suggest that there's anything at all related to any of the cult stuff anymore. They really just sell. I hate to work for HR at that company. They like, hey ah my god everyone went in the department. You have to be swingers. But yeah, no, they don't. They don't practice that anymore. Yeah.

Speaker: One from this time that's actually still active and some would argue is not a cult is Christian science. Is it basically where it takes away evolution and talks about God being the beginning? No, that's um creationism. One of this their primary teachings is the practice of spiritual healing, meaning divine healing only and no medical intervention. Oh, I've heard about this. Yes. So God will heal you as he wills.

Speaker: Maybe pray hard. This caused many people who would have been just fine with even minor medical help to die or become permanently incapacitated. This still happens today. Oh, I know. There's parents that get, yeah, get cases because of this. I mean, there's been a couple of, I mean, I wouldn't say that's that they were in a cult, but they believed in the Christian science cult.

Speaker: And yeah, they that their children end up dying and then they just... They're like, well, we prayed about it. And they're like, yeah, but you took him to the doctor and the doctor told you he needed this medication.

Speaker: And they're like, yeah, well, we don't believe in it. And it's like, I just don't understand. I don't. and I'm sorry. I'm going on a rant. I apologize. I agree. i agree with all of that.

Speaker: So we're going to fast forward a bit. Cults were present constantly in some form or another, but we're going to look at a landmark change to national policy that would impact spirituality and philosophy in the U.S. forever.

Speaker: Prior to 1965, U.S. immigration laws had quotas that limited them how many people from each area could come into the country that largely favored Western European countries, with limits to Asian and African countries. Wow. Wow. So after the Hart-Seller Act was passed in 1965, the limits were lifted and more of these cultures started blending more thoroughly into that great American melting pot. With these people came new religions and philosophies. And man, the impact. The mix. Yeah. The arrival Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism had on American culture is huge.

Speaker: The melting pot took it all and blended it with existing Western traditions and the New Age spirituality movement exploded into counterculture. And I could see that especially, you know, all these people moving into a land that's so new. i mean, a lot of them don't have family. They don't have anything. It's like, what will you grasp to some familiar strand of belief, you know? Well, and they...

Speaker: They brought the white man some very new ideas to them. And the white man did what they do with new ideas. Yes. And they manipulated everybody with them. Some of them, not all men, sorry.

Speaker: Some of them were women. Some of them are women. Some of them are. We have another cocktail of a boom of spiritual experimentation combined with civil unrest. We have the civil rights movement going on.

Speaker: Vietnam, which was hotly protested by most of the country's youth, the feminist movement was really huge at this time. i mean, there's a lot of desperation for a lot of things happening. And that's what drives a person to look for any kind of a solution. Right. Yeah. So tons of fringe groups pop up during this time.

Speaker: Some were peaceful communes with little to nothing nefarious going on. Many were led by people trying to accomplish one thing or another. Some of those were messed up. Some were weird. Some were actually pretty chill and totally harmless.

Speaker: So it's pretty fun to picture happy hippie communes with free love and LSD and mad suburban parents coming to rescue their disenfranchised teenager. I feel like that cliche was all over media there for a while. yeah Like that that that's in like every 80s and 90s sitcom or whatever, you know. But the things that scares parents is actually really real. In the late 1960s, Charles Manson. After being released from one of his many stints in a correctional facility, he began to hang out at San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district. Oh, yeah.

Speaker: the dude had charisma and spades and quickly amassed an entage of followers mostly teenage runaway girls they did the free love and drugs thing but manson was using that to keep his followers compliant oh yeah They eventually moved out to L.A. and stayed with Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys for a while until Wilson just ditched with an Irish exit. He straight up sold the house and made his manager deal with Manson and his followers to kick him I didn't know that part. Yeah. So then they moved out to a rundown movie set called Spawn's Ranch. Oh, yes. And it was out in the desert.

Speaker: Yeah. Manson's philosophy revolved around an an expected race war. He pulled his beliefs from a combination of occultism, racism, pop culture and actually Scientology, believe it or not. He learned about their mind control techniques in prison and thought that they were pretty rad.

Speaker: He utilized undue influence to ah to gain his followers. He didn't know shit about shit, but he could talk a big game. And those were impressionable young women. Yes. He was everything. Mm-hmm. Through his psychotic belief system with his charisma, he got his followers on board with this prediction of an impending race war.

Speaker: Eventually, he had determined that he was the one who was supposed to start the war. Yeah, he had to ignite it. Yes. And then he had to find a way to do that. Exactly. And what better way than to get these pressful young women to...

Speaker: Do something a little spooky. A little, a little spooky. His machinations came to a head when he ordered the brutal murders of actress Sharon Tate and her friends and her unborn baby, followed by the murders of the LaBianca family.

Speaker: There are pop culture experts that say that the hippie movement died with Tate and the LaBiancas. I can see that. Yeah, I mean... No one wanted to be attached to that anymore. I mean, they took it too far.

Speaker: Well, it's it's harder to romanticize it when something that blatant and tragic just... It's an ah of unavoidable at that point.

Speaker: You would think. I guess nowadays that doesn't mean anything. In the 1970s, we had the tragedy of the People's Temple. Oh, you mentioned Jonestown earlier. This is a group that actually started off with really positive mission.

Speaker: At a time when racial segregation was still rampant, its creator, Jim Jones, wanted to bring everyone together. He created an offshoot of the Pentecostal church, originally called Wings of Deliverance, that eventually became the Papal's Temple. Oh.

Speaker: At the time of its creation, he was extremely influenced by the civil rights movement. He preached communal living, which was attractive due to the rising cost of living and distrust of the system. He had theatrical sermons with stage spirit healing miracles. He used Cold War and societal fears as a recruitment tool.

Speaker: Come to us for safety for these wars are not ours, that kind of thing. was very much a peace, love, and everything kind situation. You've heard some of his speeches that that have been recorded, right? Like, it's it's... It's a lot. It is a lot. And I can see where, you know, especially being someone who's isolating and listening to this voice, because his voice is very commanding. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, he he had that thing where...

Speaker: I feel like, like you said, he was really looking at these people who were undervalued and tossed tossed aside by society at that time. And he was giving them religion. he was showing them that, you know, religious religion is is the way to freedom. it's and And they were following that path. And my God, the isolation, how quickly.

Speaker: Things went downhill with the isolation. Yeah. Sorry. Well, but before that happened, though, the People's Temple started getting positive attention. and He won awards. Jim Jones won awards for top clergymen, and the temple was getting good press all around. This caused some former members to come out of the woodworks to spill the tea.

Speaker: Mm-hmm. This is where it came out that there are reports of adult and child abuse as well as a lot of financial fraud. a lot of financial fraud. Yeah. do I know he wouldn't even let like people leave. Like they would have to leave their children if they were trying to leave sometimes. Yeah.

Speaker: I mean, everybody got manipulated one way or another. Around this time, Jim Jones, he gets he starts getting nervous or perhaps paranoid. He moved with a bunch of his followers to the land he owned in Guyana, which is just east of Venezuela and Brazil. oh This land became known as Jonestown.

Speaker: As a charismatic cult leader reaching the end of his rope might do, he started getting weird with his people. He would take their money and passports and basically trap them there. They started training for mass suicide. When people would question Jones, he'd use the common cult leader tactic of using thought-stopping cliches. Don't think too much about it.

Speaker: It is what it is. Don't judge. There were also later reports of sexual abuse and fear manipulation. In November of 1978, a congressman and reporter showed up at the at Jonestown to confront them about followers being held against their will.

Speaker: Everything actually seemed pretty chill, and they let more than a dozen people go back with the group. But then then they attacked them on the way out. you know The congressman and four other were assassinated. The rest got away, which panicked Jones into enacting his suicide ritual called White Night.

Speaker: He used the common cult tactic of us versus them mentality to convince his followers to take their own lives. Over 900 people died by cyanide poisoning, including babies. ye And he was telling them, make sure to help all the women and children first. Women and children first.

Speaker: Yeah, in the infirm. i mean, many willingly drank the grape flavor aid laced with death. Refusers and invalids were injected. Jones and his assistant took their own lives with guns. And this is the largest tragedy of this kind in human history, even still.

Speaker: So sad. The surviving members did disband after the Jonestown massacre. So obviously there's a ton of other cults in the 90s, but we're going to visit some of them later another day.

Speaker: Let's look at cults and cult tactics in the century we're currently in. Obviously, there are big, open, not-so-secret things like Scientology. Scientology has been around since the nineteen fifty s much like the People's Temple, But I'm bringing it up now because it's still very active, despite there being so much information about the mistreatment of its current and former members.

Speaker: I'm not going to say much about Scientology, other than that it was created by a science fiction author, and that it is still extraordinarily influential, despite being clearly that money always wins, huh?

Speaker: One would think that in this world where we can easily search any organization to find out if it's legit, that fewer people would fall for the cult psychology. But actually, because of the internet and the ease of connectivity, some people are more likely to fall prey than before.

Speaker: Do you know anyone who's ever sold anything for an MLM? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I mean 100%. There's just like so many of them. and there was Wasn't Lululemon one of them? Not Lululemon. There's like a ah ah an off-shoe, like not an off-shoe, but like an off-brand or something. And wasn't like Mary Kay's technically? Mary Kay is an MLM, absolutely. Yeah, an avon and Yeah, all these Amway is the big one, the big scary one. I know Plastic Wear used to have a big MLM.

Speaker: Tupperware. Tupperware. what it was. These companies recruit people to be their own boss. Not only sell their totally amazing product, but you recruit others to sell it too. Oh my gosh. Did I not ever tell you about the time that I almost got recruited to a cult like this?

Speaker: Did I really never tell you about this? No. Oh my gosh. Tell me. so yeah, it was me and A's and we had just, I think we had just moved in together So we had been... So this is while I've known you. Yes. Yes. We had been dating for, I want to say maybe be like four or five years at that point. And we were engaged.

Speaker: And I was working at a restaurant as a waitress. And there was this lady that was one of my tables. And I was in the middle of a rush. And right at the end, she goes, you know, I've been watching you and I just, I love the way that you work. You just, you're just so, you're so well-spoken, you're so efficient. And, you know, i think, I think that you could really, I mean, i I think that maybe you could, you could be on my team, you know, and I'm like, okay, doing, doing what? And she's like, well, you know, like it it is a sales job, but

Speaker: come, let me show you you, know? And I was like, okay, sure. So she left me this card and a little sticky note that had her name and a time and an address. Oh, and she asked for my phone number before she left. Of course.

Speaker: I gave it to her, being the smart person that I was. and And she sent me a message and was like, hey, you know, like they they wouldn't tell me what this was. But, you know, I was a restaurant server. i was I was working nights. I'm sorry. I was going to school during the day and working at night. And I had another job too. And so I was like, you know, something to get me out of this grind would be great. And so I remember going to A's and saying, hey, like there's this this person that asked me to come to this show, that presentation that she's going to put on, this orientation for like a group.

Speaker: that she's trying to put together. and she says, it's a really good opportunity. And, you know, i think it would be really interesting and I'd really like to go to it. And he goes, that sounds really fishy. i was like, I know, but that's, you know, why I really want you there.

Speaker: And I remember getting there and it was a completely empty building. that had for rent on it. And they had- serial killers here. No, they had a, you know, those, ah those like stands you see in the mall that say like,

Speaker: you know, this way for whatever, right? Like the map marquees. Yes, exactly. So they had one of those basically saying, you know, this floor. think it was like second or third floor. So we go to the second third floor and we are opened directly into this.

Speaker: There's one office and a big room and there's a bunch of chairs set up and there's a a projector down. And I'm like, oh, God. Oh, God. We're about to be sold a timeshare. That's what i was just thinking. I was like, this is about to be a timeshare. And no. So it was really funny because i was sitting there with Ace and I remember at one point he just grabbed my thigh.

Speaker: And that's when I was like, oh, Oh, he feels it too. And see what happened was we were sitting there and they put on this PowerPoint and this lady and this man, they're so well-dressed and so well-spoken. And they're like, Hey guys, you know, we picked you for this great opportunity. Like, you know, I was where you were a couple years ago and I took on this opportunity and now Now here we are. Like, here I am, like, and I have made this much this year and we're about to make this much, you know, could you imagine, you know, hitting half a million dollars in three years? Like, wouldn't that be amazing? And it's like, what? Okay.

Speaker: And I remember... Being like, wait, what are we selling? And they're like, you don't sell anything. We're just recruiting people. And I'm like. to do what? I know. And I'm like, where's the money coming from?

Speaker: And I'm like, I'm just like truly. Because you have to pay in to start. I don't know. Because we got to a point where they were like, you know, you sign up. And I don't even remember what the hook was, but there was something where I felt the alarm bells. And I remember, like, I felt his ace grab my leg and I stiffened. And i was just, it was one of those we both put on those Stepford wife smiles of just...

Speaker: And then it got to the point where they had the presentation. They said, all right, let's sign up and all this stuff. And I was like, well, my husband and I really like to discuss this a little And like, sure. You know, why don't you come over here with me and you come over here? They were trying to split us up.

Speaker: And were like, and i was like, oh, really? We we would prefer, you know if we could have a conversation. They're like, yeah, sure. Right over here in the corner. we're like, you know, can we just use this office real quick? They would not let us be alone. And we were like, you know what? i think I think we we just need to think on this and sleep on it And they're like, oh, no, we need an answer today. And the answer is no. Yes. And was like, the answer is definitely no. You're right. I think they wanted like some money over time or something like that. I don't remember what it was.

Speaker: But it was just so crazy because literally it was, they recruited me as a server in a restaurant, got me to this place. And like, could you imagine if I hadn't had my husband there, had my wits about me? Like, I mean, what would I have signed away to these people?

Speaker: Because I mean, I will tell you, they had a really good pitch. Even Ace was on board for like a good 10, 15 minutes. That's how they get you. Yeah. And then we were like, wait a minute. Yeah. Where's the real product? so Yep. Well, and even the ones that do have real products, that's not the purpose. You know, most people end up throwing their entire savings so they can just stay in loving good graces. And it's really, really awful. and They didn't have any product you were supposed to sell at all? No, it was like a pyramid scheme of some... I mean, they all are, but usually there's at least a product to... That's crazy. What's really funny is I swear they had a triangle on there at some point, but it was upside down and that was their justification. Yeah.

Speaker: of course. I was like, that doesn't. But yeah, I mean, they're very, very manipulative too because once you get in it, you have to sell so much to stay in the VIP club and get exclusive access to their star seller perks. And usually what? You have to pay for the product ahead of time or they charge you for the product, give it to you. You buy it wholesale and sell it. And if you don't sell it, you're still on the hook for it. And guess what? Your next month should have been still coming in. Exactly. Exactly. You're on contract.

Speaker: Bitch. Sorry. because these are Because these company models are based on recruiting more than selling, only the tippy top of the organization is making any money at all. Most spend their own money to get their businesses off the ground and end up getting nothing back. yeah Wellness cults are absolutely a thing now too. yeah I actually tried tried searching wellness cult because I wanted to see what was active. And I got just a bunch of ads for businesses that had some version of wellness cult in their name or their motto. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Wasn't a hydroxy cut a big one of our time?

Speaker: I didn't know if that was a cult. That was a pill. It was, man. But they had like a whole following. It was crazy. I'm sorry. I call it all a cult because people get too crazy. They get too crazy. People do get crazy. It wasn't a real cult.

Speaker: I'm sorry. It wasn't like an M.L.M. It wasn't. But that fits the definition, though, if you're talking about like a cult following. Like it's it's just a rapid following of something, right? So yeah, but they're they're embracing not only using it in their advertising, but as their brand. That's so crazy.

Speaker: So SoulCycle, don't know if you've heard of them. So they were accused of cult-like manipulation. This isn't necessarily actually a cult. They really focused on commitment and the most astute followers paid astronomical amounts for multiple classes a day. The company openly sexualized its instructors, basically telling them that you want people to either want to fuck you or to be you. Yeah.

Speaker: And there was even quite a bit of SoulCycle-only vocabulary that marked you in the in-crowd if you knew it. It's definitely ah pay all of your money and be part of this. Wellness is highly manipulative. We've talked about it before. You're faced with people that want to get better, and you're telling them that you can help them with that.

Speaker: The same as it was back in the day, people do it now too. There is an absurd amount of money spent on wellness. Some people take advantage. Do your research. Yes. Yes. Finally, let's take a look at the present-day United States through a historical lens.

Speaker: Okay. Thought-stopping cliches coming from the highest-level politicians. Fake news, for example. All media and politicians have an us-versus-them mentality.

Speaker: Media manipulation, gaslighting, at a grand scale. Even advertising. Exactly. Yes. Despite her even in spite of the amount of information available to everyone, cults are still very rampant today. I'm including a link in the show notes that has resources for anyone that feels stuck by a cult or has a family member involved in a cult. And I'm going to make it very clear here. i mean cults. I don't mean religions. Religions can be beautiful, wonderful community things. And even some of the smaller ones and stuff Religion does not equal cult as far as like the negative yeah of that. It's when you're, you know, hurting people financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, what have you. Right. The exploitation and things like that.

Speaker: The exploitation period. But these are just a few examples of some of the more well-known Cults. So a lot of cliches that pop culture assigns to cults come from some of these groups. Drinking the Kool-Aid, hippies brainwashing young people, desperate people clinging on to a group because they finally had someone that accepted them when all else was lost.

Speaker: There are also an uncountable number of cults that have existed past and present, many that get even more heinous than the groups we've talked about. I'll be telling some of these stories as we continue sharing our nightmares, but I wanted to lay a foundation.

Speaker: Cults are complex and many even start with a positive motive motive in mind. Usually. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to actually quote Dr. Polomi Saha of Berkeley University because I just like the way they put it.

Speaker: Nobody joins a cult. Rather, they join what they believe is a really good thing. We call it a cult when it goes bad. That good thing, a system of belief that is incredibly powerful to those who subscribe to it, becomes a cult when there's harm involved.

Speaker: And that's that professor that I obsessed with and like watched 900 videos on. And that was the only quote I ended up pulling. So basically, Nim is saying she almost joined a cult of this professor's ah they teach They teach why people are obsessed with cults, why the the story of it all. and So they make you obsessed about being obsessed? No, they explain. Well, and they actually don't use the word cult after the first like couple of weeks of the course. and they say They call them um intentional groups because until you know yeah more... It is very rude to call them cult. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that is cults. I like that. Intentional groups. Intentional groups.

Speaker: Do you have nightmare fuel? I do, but like it doesn't relate at all to Colts. It doesn't need to This is just what we want to recommend. My t*** doesn't either. So I'm reading this book called I Am Half Sick of Shadows. It's by Alan Bradley. Apparently there's like, it's like four books, but I've only read the first one. And honestly, it's pretty great.

Speaker: About a girl whose family was conventionally rich and is now having to let in a film crew into their house to... record so that they can make enough money to save their house or whatever. But it is set in such a time that things get very interesting very quickly. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker: It's very good. I'm into it. Yes. And she's like 11 years old, but very scientific. And it's fantastic because has a little chemistry lab upstairs and she talks about poisoning people all the time. So it's just great. Love that. Yes. Love that.

Speaker: I just finished a book today that I wasn't going to recommend because I've already recommended one of her books. but Wow. You only get one. You hear that, authors? Only one. No. Well, I know I've already recommended more than one Stephen Graham Jones, so whatever.

Speaker: But it's called Kiss, Slay, Replay by Rachel Harrison. Nice. Rachel Harrison is a horror author who writes kind of fun, accessible horror books.

Speaker: that has, it's there's always humor and stuff in it. And this one was, i i went into it completely blind, but you can kind of imagine from the title, Kiss, Slay, Replay,

Speaker: that there might be some hurry happening. I don't want to tell anybody anything about it. I just want you to read it. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. Go read it. Go read it. And then i was also going to recommend because now I've watched it twice and I want to watch it again.

Speaker: I've already made on nightmare fuel ready or not from the final girl episode. Well now ready or not too. Oh, is out. And i actually waited to watch it because i just saw some, mixed stuff on Reddit from people, but I didn't like read what they said because I didn't want their yeah opinions to tarnish mine. And then I watched it and like, I liked it, but then I watched it again and it was like, yes, this is great. Sometimes it needs that second watch. You know, you get so much more from the second watch. agree.

Speaker: But yeah, Ready or 2 and Kiss Sleigh Replay and I'm Half Sick of Shadows will all be in Nightmare Field this week. Awesome. love it Love

Speaker: Okay, so like, you know how earlier we talked about how I'm obsessed with the logistics of things being clean? Yes. Okay, well today we're going to talk about my modern day nightmare.

Speaker: And it is called La Tomatilla. This is a festival that's held once a year Buñol, Spain. dating back to 1945.

Speaker: Legend has it that during a cultural parade of the town, a fight broke out between some youths over some costumes for the parade. A tomato cart got tipped over and the boys started throwing tomatoes at each other, which led to an eventual all-out tomato fight.

Speaker: That actually seems kind of dangerous. Right? Like, they they're not snowballs. They're solid. They're real solid. So the following year, the city council tried to cancel the parade to avoid a similar fight, but the boys decided to go anyways and brought a lot of tomatoes from home.

Speaker: So it started with a few tomatoes, and year after year, more tomatoes started appearing at the festival. A bag, a basket, a wheelbarrow. It sounds like a cartoon. Right?

Speaker: Everyone decided it was all in good fun and people started bringing their own tomatoes from home every year. And the end, people would start a tomato war. i Until... I'm sorry. It just sounds like so... Right? like Childlike and what ah What are we doing? It just sounds like a bunch of kids found a bunch of tomatoes, but these are like adults. These are grown-ass people. Now everyone's in on the fight. That's crazy. Until 1957.

Speaker: nineteen fifty seven What happened in 1957? Spanish dictator Francisco Franco banned the tomato throwing event due to it having no religious significance. He felt it wasn't culty enough.

Speaker: But this did not stop the townsfolk. They dressed in their funeral hats and their blacks, and they paraded through town in their funeral clothes. One group had a coffin with a giant tomato in it that they had grown.

Speaker: and another had a band following the tomato funeral procession, but no tomatoes were thrown at the festival. Just the funeral called for the tomatoes. In 1959, the event was reinstated, but with many rules, including an obligation for participants to help clean up after the festival. By 1972, the city council introduced shipping trucks full of tomatoes to assist in the festivities, and it proceeds today.

Speaker: well Thousands of people come as they would to run with the bulls, but instead of livestock, they are met with tomatoes. entirely too many tomatoes. And for one hour, everyone within the perimeter throws tomatoes at each other.

Speaker: Tomatoes are acidic, so people have to wear goggles to avoid getting it in their eyes. And also, food's not for throwing, people. It's not. It's not for playing. I don't have time for this nonsense. It's horrible. I hate this.

Speaker: Anyways, so. It feels, I mean, it sounds delightful, honestly, like as far as like a community, whatever, but it sounds really wasteful. Right? Like we have an entire truck. We have an entire truck. There's more.

Speaker: Anyways. so the festival capacity is 22,000 people in a town of 9,000 people. So imagine 22,000 people throwing at least one tomato.

Speaker: do And you know nobody threw just one tomato. Exactly. Festival goers pay an entry fee to help pay for over 120 tons of tomatoes, about six or seven trucks worth.

Speaker: And they're hungry people. They're dropped all over the festival. These tomatoes are grown specifically like these are the ones that would have been outcast or thrown out. All right. and But that's a lot. Throughout the growing season. Yeah. I mean, they're the ones that are shaped weird or kind of have that bruise on the side or, you know, maybe look kind of funny. Well, the bruises is probably good because that means they won't hurt as much. But.

Speaker: So. Nothing stains like a tomato. That's what I'm saying. At 12 p.m. on the last Wednesday of August, the first tomato is hurled and the chaos ensues. I mean, sort of. There's rules.

Speaker: You have to squash the tomato before throwing it, good like in your hand, to produce the impact. That being said, no other object should be added to the tomatoes or thrown in addition to the tomatoes.

Speaker: And the purpose of this is fun. It's not injury. And at 1 p.m., two shots will be fired into the air and then no more tomatoes should be thrown after that. What happens if you throw it? I guess it's illegal, man. I don't know.

Speaker: But prior to the event, tarps are used to cover some of the building fronts. um But it only just helps with cleanup. After the event, there's ankle-deep pulp in the streets. People are covered and now trying to get back to their temporary lodging.

Speaker: And what wasn't covered by a tarp is now covered in smashed tomatoes. Do you remember that Verbo um that we went to that had a thing on like everything? It was like no sand. Yes. yeah And it was like right by the beach. yeah That's what this feels like. It's like, how are you going to yell at me for tomatoes when I'm literally a tomato festival?

Speaker: and But as you can guess, people are just losing things in the scuffle. So there is more than just organic tomato material lying around. But part of the entry fee also seems to go to the cleanup. Most of it's done by the local fire department.

Speaker: Yeah, they come with their fire hoses. They blast everything with high pressure water. And the city is built on a slope so they can just push it all down the hill, forming a tomato river. None of this sounds real. I promise you all of this is.

Speaker: After the fire department comes through, the city street cleaners, they come through to clear the drains and they sweep up any like remaining debris. And then the city has like, I mean, they have cleaning down to a science at that point.

Speaker: The main streets are mostly clean within a few hours after the event. with like minor pathways taking like the next morning, but that's still pretty efficient, right? For a full town.

Speaker: Now, as for the people, the event has temporary shower stations set up by the train station and the river, but locals are used to the event. And so they lend their hoses and water to assist people in getting cleaned off after the event.

Speaker: As you will guess, some people just try to go in the river and clean off, which they frown upon because it gums things up but at least they try to clean off they say there's always a group or two that will try to get back on a public transit covered in tomatoes but but they're on their guard and they're ready the tomato warriors of spain the tomato warriors of spain i love it oh and here's some images of the founders of course ah

Speaker: they just look like a bunch of hooligans they do i'm not surprised at that picture at all but yeah That's la tomatilla, my nightmare, because could you imagine the cleanup? No.

Speaker: For some reason, every time I make, like, spaghetti, always, like, when I'm pouring the sauce out, always without fail. Splashes. Splash on me. Yeah. Every time. It just doesn't matter. It doesn't.

Speaker: That's physics.

Speaker: So now that you've heard our nightmares, let's hear some of yours. Nightmare Cottage at gmail.com. Let us know what you want to want us to talk about because otherwise we're just going to keep talking about what we want to talk about.

Speaker: We're just going to keep talking about what we want to talk about. I mean, we're going to do that anyways. That's true. But it could also coincide with what you want to talk about. Or what you want to listen to. Oh, wait.

Speaker: I mean, unless you want to come on and talk. No, we're not doing that. nightmare cottage at gmail.com let us know what you think sweet dreams mid night night

Speaker: if you have topic requests book or movie recommendations or just want to say hi email us at nightmare cottage at gmail.com or visit our website at nightmare cottage.com sweet dreams sweet dreams

Speaker: Bye bye.