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World War 3: What Does the Bible Say About War?
22 Plays9 months ago
War has been a harsh reality throughout history, but how should Christians navigate this challenging topic? In this episode, we dive into Scripture to explore God’s view on war, Jesus’ call to peacemaking, and the tension between justice and nonviolence. Whether you’re wrestling with questions about military service, the morality of conflict, or how to pray for peace, this conversation will equip you with a biblical lens to think deeply about war and God’s ultimate plan for peace.
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Transcript
Introduction to Faith 168 Podcast
Absence of Co-host Robbie
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Faith 168 Podcast. It is good to have you all joining us once again, and I'm one of the co-hosts, Brandon Bramlett, and I'm with one other co-host tonight, Brother Chris. One other. Correct. You can't emphasize it enough. Yes. So, how's things going for you, Chris? Oh, everything's going great. I really thought we'd have three here tonight. I was really looking forward to all three of them.
00:00:50
Speaker
No, I'm just, I told Robbie we we're going to mess with him one way or the other, whether he's going to be here tonight, but we love him. We can't blame him. he He's got a big family and a big job and ah we're lucky to even get him on the podcast here and there. so but Oh yeah. by the We're lucky and it's lucky if we can
Biblical Perspective on War Overview
00:01:10
Speaker
get them to show up. but Right. Yeah. The podcast rules that are written do say that you have to make fun of whoever's absent though. Yes. Yes. The rules that we haven't written yet. Yeah. right yeah but but they yeah
00:01:22
Speaker
You know, I was thinking the other day, we were making fun of him for going all the way back to prehistory when he teaches scripture. And I was going to say, I bet his favorite hymn ever is, I love to tell the old, old story.
00:01:42
Speaker
ah It's got to be as well. Oh, we do love Rob though. And, uh, you know, we could have, we could have used him tonight because we're actually going to talk about something regarding history, which is the subject of war. yeah So it is no surprise and no shock to any of you guys tuning in that war is looming and happening.
00:02:06
Speaker
There's a war taking place between Russia and Ukraine and Israel and Hamas. And there's rumors of possibly World War Three.
Is War Ever Justified?
00:02:15
Speaker
And a lot of tensions are high right now because of this. And so we thought it'd be good to try our best to bring some biblical perspective to the table regarding war. As any but reader of the Bible knows, war is a topic that the scripture addresses. It's not something that God has left us in the dark about.
00:02:36
Speaker
And thankfully he tells us some, some truths, ah gives us some truth about war in the scripture. And so hopefully through this, we can give you all some comfort and perspective. Yeah. So let's just start with a baseline here and and talk about ah whether or not war is at any time ever justified, you know, because Chris, you know, us as well as I do, the scripture talks about peace quite a bit and being a peace maker and living at peace with people. So ah is war right? Is it justified? Should Christians get involved?
Pacifism vs. Self-defense
00:03:14
Speaker
What do you think? Well, I think there was a song once
00:03:18
Speaker
that I used to watch this movie over and over when I was younger and they sang this song. It was pretty funny song, but it went war. who What is good for absolutely nothing. No, but war is actually horrible. War is horrible. Um, we don't want to be at war in a perfect world. There would be no war. The unfortunate thing is that We live in an imperfect world that really goes against God. You know, there was this talk about division when you read letters of John where he talks about people dividing and leaving that were never a part of us. and
00:04:10
Speaker
He said, you know, there are many Antichrists that are here and Antichrists pitted themselves against Christians, ah called for their death and called for their imprisonment, called for their persecutions even. And we know that that's still a thing in the world, that there is There are groups of people. There are even nations of people that pit themselves against Christ and want to see Christians. In some instances, the Jews ah oh want to see them annihilated. Now, how do we respond to that? that That's a hard question right yes sir because we can get
00:04:56
Speaker
into this mode of saying, you know what, I just want to sing Kumbaya. I want to hug people. But what happens when you go to hug someone and they don't want to hug you, they want to kill you. What do you do then? Right. Right. And that's when it gets a lot more personal. I always tell people I'm a pacifist, but if you try me, I'll pass a fist through your face. ah that's That's really, really well said.
00:05:26
Speaker
but And it's not that I want to get in a fight, but I do understand this, that I'm going to stand my ground on the truth and that if my life is the only life at stake, then I'm not going to worry about it as much. I'm going to trust God. and I'm going to do what he has called me to do. But while there are innocent lives around me that need to be defended, if I can be a warrior, I'm going to be a warrior. I'm going to do what I need to do. And I think when we talk about peace,
00:05:57
Speaker
is that peace sometimes can only be attained when those that are bringing chaos and division are done away with. And that's not right saying have a physical war and take out a nation or take out a group of people, but we've seen that in the church as well. When Jesus talks about people that are causing the visions amongst each other,
00:06:22
Speaker
and Matthew 18, go to them once and talk it out. If they keep going, go to them a second time and bring a couple people with you and talk it out. If they keep going against you, if they keep trying to bring you down, confront them a third time, but bring it before the church. And if they can't stop, if peace cannot be had, cut them out. They're yeah not allowed to be a part of the group.
00:06:48
Speaker
until they are ready to truly follow Jesus. And it says, treat them like a sinner and a tax collector. yeah But i want I want to look at the verse that a lot of people go to when we're talking about peace. And that's in Romans chapter 12.
00:07:09
Speaker
where it says, repay no one evil for evil. In verse 17, have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much depends on you live peaceably with all men. And yeah but there and and we'll talk about that. And and we might even jump in into chapter 13. We'll see where the conversation goes, but Yeah. Um, so I think that's good perspective on it. I think your illustration earlier pretty much sums up the scriptures teaching on it is that, you know, we do have to be careful with the pacifist label.
00:07:47
Speaker
Right, because it has different connotations and and nuances. But, you know, Christians are called to be peaceful and to be peacemakers, as you just read. But self-defense and the protection of others is entirely justified in Scripture. And, you know, for instance, ah this is kind of a surprising passage. Many people gloss over in Exodus 22, verses 2 through 3. This is God speaking, okay?
Biblical Justifications for Self-defense
00:08:15
Speaker
He says, if a thief It's caught breaking in at night and it struck a fatal blow. So somebody burglarizes your home. You pass a fist through them. Like you said, I'm never going to forget that. Uh, God says the defender is not guilty of bloodshed. Um, but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed.
00:08:41
Speaker
So one principle here is, uh, this person's possessions and family were at risk and this burglarizer comes in and God basically says, you knock the dude out. You're being a defender. You're not guilty, even if it leads to the shedding of this man's blood. yeah And obviously there's more to this than just an illustration of, uh, am I justified in, you know,
00:09:09
Speaker
killing somebody who breaks into my home. The broader principle is God totally agrees with self-defense. Now the ideal and the thing we should strive for is peace, but I mean, that's kind of what Paul's getting at in the passage you read there. He says, if possible, so far as it depends on you leave peaceably with all, sometimes it's not possible to be peaceful with, especially those that are breaking into our house. And sometimes those who are invading our country,
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll give them a warning shot, you know, and that they keep going. then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which i've I've got, that's a big thing too. They make these these rounds for guns.
00:09:50
Speaker
uh, salt rounds being backgrounds. They're coming out with this new thing. I've been seeing, uh, non-lethal rounds, but the thing is, oh yeah seen that I would prefer non-lethal. I would prefer there be no war. I would prefer that I could reach someone one with Christ, but if someone comes into my house and puts my wife and my two babies at risk, I have a God given call.
00:10:20
Speaker
as a father to lay my life down for them, to protect them. Now, just dying right then and there does not protect them. Now, if I die trying to make sure that they can't get hurt, that's one thing, but I'm going to do all I can to take care of the problem. And that's what Jesus did for the church. He laid his life down for the problem. That was sin. And he eradicated that that whoever calls upon his name, my faith,
00:10:48
Speaker
would be forgiven of their lawless deeds and their transgressions and he'd remember them no more. And so he takes care of that sin problem. And so I'll look at someone that's coming in as the problem and I've got to lay my life down. I've got to do whatever I can do to take care of that problem and and take care of that danger. And if that leads to the taking of life, I'd rather not. But just because I'm a Christian,
00:11:16
Speaker
does not mean that I'm some defenseless little guy that has the cower in the corner every time push comes to shove. I will promote Christ. I will seek peace, but when peace cannot be had, I will not let someone take advantage of my family. Now going onto a national understanding of this, I think that's where we get into the Romans chapter 13, where we're talking about government and submitting to government and things of that nature. We we have the same thing as a nation.
00:11:53
Speaker
And before I go really to Romans 13, you remember the scripture on David and the scripture on Solomon. David was a king and and he had to fight many battles, but God used him in a very specific time. He was a man that was going to subdue the enemies of Israel. And he did. And and God allowed that.
00:12:19
Speaker
Not because God wanted to destroy everything, but because with the nations that were surrounding Israel, there could be no peace. Not because of Israel's sake, but because of the other nations that were around them. yeah we still see We still see that battle going on today. and You know, when we think about Hamas and Israel going at it right now, the significance of that is is Israel justified in what they are doing. And I would say ah for the most part, yes, theres there's an enemy that's on the doorstep and and that enemy is at fault. That enemy opened themselves up to attack. That enemy crossed the line.
00:13:03
Speaker
And if that were to happen in the United States, we'd like to complain about that right now. But if that were to happen in the United States, like 9 11 happened when that happened, there wasn't one person complaining when we took action. Yeah. We'd like to complain 20 years later. Yeah. right But David was used as a man of war. And he, for that reason, there were things that God couldn't use him for at that time.
00:13:34
Speaker
But he was called for a specific time and ah a specific purpose, and that was to sedue the enemies of Israel. Now Solomon, his son, He was more of a political and spiritual leader. yeah And so he brought a prosperous economy to Israel
Christian Roles in Historical Wars
00:13:51
Speaker
and God used him to build the temple where people would come to worship. And that temple was something to point us to the one true King, King Jesus, as we continue on through scripture. But you see, we serve as the God,
00:14:10
Speaker
who's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And the world isn't that different from what we see in the Old Testament. yeah We still have those battles. The only thing that's different is everybody can see them now. You don't hear about them. You can literally watch a video of people in Ukraine and Russia fighting each other and blowing each other up. I don't suggest you watch it, but I'm saying you can literally go on internet and those videos, unfiltered, crazy stuff going on. And everybody has access to that. You can do the same with what's going on between Israel and Hamas right now.
00:14:50
Speaker
And so many the other battles that are going on throughout the world, what we call the little smaller battles, the wars that are going on, but we don't really focus on those. So yeah, but, but if there's a time for war, it needs to be when peace is no longer on the table, when there is no option for peace. And so we think about world war three.
00:15:19
Speaker
what What do the Christians do during that? if If it were to happen and we we could see it, we might not, who knows? Because these things are unpredictable. yeah Things unfold overnight now at a fast pace. So what do the Christians do? that's That's a big question I think of a lot of people's hearts. Do we sign up and we go to battle? do we What do we do?
00:15:45
Speaker
And I think we can look at history and see what the church has always done during a time of war. And the church has served the people. And there's a book, I forget who wrote it, but it's called The Mystery of Catastrophe. And it talks about war, it talks about famine and all of these different disasters in history where the church stepped up. They stepped up as soldiers, they stepped up as volunteers, they stepped up as people that were helping with refugees and things like that. And that's how they spread the gospel. Yeah. You know, if I could be a soldier and sit beside other soldiers as they're about to go into the scariest moments of their life and talk to them about Jesus, that's a way I could serve Christ.
00:16:35
Speaker
Or if I can just be a volunteer ladling out soup at a refugee camp, I can serve Christ by being his hands and his feet and preaching the gospel in those moments as well. And so I don't think we have to shirk away from these things. And I think war is overall just condemn something we can condemn. We don't like the idea of it, but we can't avoid it. Yeah.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, like you say that this is something that Christians of every age have had to wrestle with, you know, especially like in the last century or so where you had a lot of major conflicts, you know, and Christians have had to ask themselves, um, do I enlist? You know, what do I do? Uh, if I get drafted, do I go and live on a commune somewhere or do I serve my country? You know, yeah and I think your illustrations of David and Solomon are apt to that point that it's kind of a calling, you know? I mean, yeah, there's a general principle to preserve peace when
00:17:46
Speaker
War is the only way to do it. Um, but that doesn't mean that every Christian needs to sign up. Right. you know Exactly. Um, but some do, some do, and it can be a real ministry. Like you say, uh, you can take the gospel to places it would never otherwise go. Right. And, and you know, at the same time, the church's mission always remains the same wherever a church is located. Their job is to preach the gospel to their neighbors and reach the ends of the earth.
00:18:15
Speaker
with that same gospel, but it is really a calling that the Lord places on an individual's life to go and defend their country yeah um as you you know well illustrated from David and Solomon. you know David was more of a warrior. Solomon was more of a politician, I guess you can say. yeah And speaking of the jobs that we might fulfill in such a time, it's probably good for us to consider what the government's job is yeah as well when it comes to war And there is very clear perspective on the government's role in this regard in the 13th chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans. And so we'll chat about that a minute, but I want to read Romans 13 versus one through four. Kind of a big chunk there, but this is really the pillar text on the government in scripture.
Government's Role in War and Justice
00:19:12
Speaker
ah It says, let every person be subject to the governing authorities. ah For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, for whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Here's the key verse, verse three. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is an authority?
00:19:40
Speaker
Then do what is good, and you'll receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." and We just won't read verse seven about paying taxes to whom all is owed. Yeah, I won't talk about taxes. yeah Yeah. But what do you think about that, Chris, as far as the perspective that Paul brings there on the government and what what job they have in regards to war and protection? Well, I think every government, whether we're talking about the United States government or we're talking about
00:20:27
Speaker
Israel's government or Canada's government or whatever government they all have the obligation as leaders to lead in a godly path and That if they don't that they're not really fulfilling their leadership as a governing authority but that a part of Being a godly leader is condemning what is evil to the harshest point you can, to the harshest point. Well, not harshest point you can, but harshest point necessary. If it's simply a video saying we condemn this, like talk about abortion, for example. I wish there were more in our own government that would stand up and say ah simply abortion is murder and it must be abolished. Right.
00:21:23
Speaker
you know, but we don't have to go to war over that. We can fight for that through politics. And, you know, you can fight for that by casting a vote. And and that's, I think, is important where Christians are called to stand up in areas like that. But when there's a nation that is bringing evil and bringing destruction and bullying other nations,
00:21:49
Speaker
then we have a responsibility, our government being the strongest government in the world, our nation being the strongest nation in the world. And I know people act like it's not sometimes that for lack of better words, we have this sisified understanding of what the United States is within the world. We are the superpower of the world. Yeah. God has given us an unimaginable strength that when Our representatives walk into a room with other nation's representatives. They are the center of attention. Why? Because what they say goes at that point. Whatever the United States. And that's that's a huge responsibility. I'm not saying that to brag.
00:22:32
Speaker
Well, the US of A, baby. yeah but But when you think about that, we have a responsibility to uphold what is good and what is right, no matter what the cost may be. And so a lot of people do say things like, let's not get involved in this war. Let's not get involved in that war. And I agree and in some areas, we don't need to be involved. But you know take Hamas, for example.
00:23:01
Speaker
Hamas is a terrorist organization that is the representing government of the Gaza Strip that decided not just that one day, but has done it over over a period of time, but on one day decided unprovoked to attack and kill innocent people, not a government, but the constituents of a government.
00:23:28
Speaker
That's similar to what happened on 9-11 for us in the United States. This was, I think, a lot more terrible in the sense of there were so many videos of these guys running around slaughtering teenagers that, you know, were just out on the town for the night, children, and and and not just killing them, but defiling them.
00:23:57
Speaker
And when I saw that, I had to ask myself, what am I feeling right now? Am I feeling rage at a person or is this rage at evil? And then I had to differentiate between that. I have to look at humans, but then I have to look at evil. And what Hamas did was evil. And what Hamas stands for is evil. And what needs to happen to Hamas is they need to be eradicated. And that's why the US government stands strong on that because they have to stand strong against evil. I hate that it has to be done. i wish that And I hope that they find a peaceful solution. I hope that they return the hostages. I hope that there's a ceasefire.
00:24:48
Speaker
but as long as evil is allowed to persist, it will continue to come against what is good. And what governing authorities are told to do is to be a terror. Right. That's the key. Not, not someone that's like, Oh guys, let's come together and let's negotiate and let's do this and let's do all this stuff. There's got to be a point where a ruler has to put his or her foot down and say, we're done talking.
00:25:19
Speaker
You were not doing good. You were doing evil in the sight of man and in the sight of God. And I will be a terror to you. And I'm glad that I'm not that leader because that's a lot of responsibility.
00:25:31
Speaker
I'm glad I'm not the president of the United States. I'm glad that I'm not the prime minister of Israel right now, because they're having to make decisions that I wouldn't want to make, that I would grapple with. And that's why they they're called to those positions. God has put people in those positions, allowed people to stand in those positions for such a time as this. Yeah. And that's why it's important for us to make sure we fulfill Scriptures mandate on our end from First Timothy chapter two, where it says to make intercessions for our rulers, for kings, yeah so that they can have the wisdom from God that they need to navigate these difficult situations. But yeah, like you were saying, the whole point of what Paul is saying in regards to government's job is there are terror
00:26:24
Speaker
As he says, not to good conduct, not to discourage righteousness. They are a terror, a real threat to bad, to evil. yeah And, you know, the passage says there that they back up that threat with the sword. And then if you come against them for being unrighteous or wicked or evil,
00:26:47
Speaker
then they don't bear the sword against you in vain. yeah um So pretty, pretty serious stuff there that Paul talks about, but I think we'd be safe to say that according to Paul's theology of the government, the government's supposed to protect its citizens and back up that protection with the sword. I mean, really Paul is saying that the government officials, those with earthly authority over us are really God's vice regents, those that rule and govern um not to replace him, but really as an extension of his divine authority. yeah I mean, they're called servants of God in this passage. You can't get any clearer than that. And that doesn't necessarily
00:27:34
Speaker
Of course, it doesn't mean, you know, that, that everybody in government therefore is by virtue of their office, a Christian. That's not what he means by God's servant. It does mean that whether a government official or ruler is a believer or not, he still serves God's purposes when he rewards righteousness and punishes wickedness. yeah And sometimes you have to punish wickedness with the sword, as we were saying. Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, and and I think too, as you pointed out earlier, this isn't a call for Christians to to condone war because, you know, there's not really a call in scripture that God contones war, but what he does not condone is evil. And when evil persists, evil must be wiped out. And horses were saying here in what we were reading in scripture is that they have to to bear the sword. Now,
00:28:29
Speaker
not every Christian is going to sign up and be a soldier. If there were a world war three, yeah there are Christians right now in Ukraine. There are Christians right now in Israel that are are fighting a physical battle, but we have already been at war as Christians or not a physical war, but you know when you go back and read what Paul writes in Ephesians about a spiritual war that we have to put on the whole armor of God. So whether you're fighting a physical war or not, you have to start fighting the spiritual war and you have to do so boldly. there's war is And the reason that it's brought up as a war is because there's nothing really pretty about these demonic forces.
00:29:19
Speaker
and these doctrines of demons that are being put out into this world. We have to be tough. And I'm not talking about, you know, walk around and cross your arms all the time and strut around and say, suck it up, buttercup. But we have to be mentally prepared. We have to be spiritually prepared. Because battle isn't easy. And and so I served.
00:29:48
Speaker
And when I served, they taught us how to use our weapons. And that was good. But the weapons are useless and the armor is useless if you don't have the right mentality going into work.
00:30:05
Speaker
And so they didn't just teach us how to use our weapons, but they taught us how to be tough. They taught us how to be resilient. And we as Christians are supposed to be the same in a spiritual sense. We're supposed to be resilient. And we have the best teacher, which is the Holy Spirit that dwells within us. We have the best guidebook, which is the Holy Bible that we read.
00:30:29
Speaker
And we have so many people, generals to of history, generals of the faith to look back on and right see how at times they were broken down, but they relied on God and they got back up and they fought. They fought the good fight. And so whether you're fighting a physical battle or not, you're still at war as a Christian. It's just the majority of our war is spiritual, but sometimes that spiritual war call some Christians to pick up the sword and fight for the innocent. Yeah. Yeah. Like you say, it as we've been reiterating through this episode, it's not for everyone. And again, to be clear, war is condemned in scripture. It's a terrible thing. The bottom line is sometimes it's a necessary thing, unfortunately. um yeah And I mean, even Solomon says this in Ecclesiastes 3.8,
00:31:25
Speaker
And some can read this as poetry, you know, or dismiss it as not scriptural truth, but he literally says there's a time for war yeah and a time for peace. You know, we want peace. That's what we're called to pursue and to pray for and to make. But Solomon says sometimes there's a time for war. It's necessary. I think the thing for us, though, is discerning the will of God for our lives, whether it's whether it's our place to enlist or not ah during those times. But one thing that you know we can take to the bank is we're called to pray for our leaders. That's for every Christian. That's not like a special spiritual gift or anything. you know That is the calling of God upon all believers. Whether you like him or not. and Whether you like him or not, yeah. he he
00:32:20
Speaker
He didn't say in that passage, just pray for the ones you voted for. you know He says, pray for all those in earthly authority over you. And and speaking of prayer, you know we should also be in much prayer in times of serious conflict, praying for minimum casualties, praying for the safety of our military, ah praying for quick resolutions yeah to these conflicts as well.
00:32:44
Speaker
um But changing topics just a little bit still talking about war, but you know one thing on a lot of Christians minds, especially, is that these wars were hearing about and witnessing our signs of the end. And so let's chat about that and get some some eschatological perspective on this.
00:33:06
Speaker
um What do you think about that, Chris? Is there anything that the Bible says or Jesus perhaps says maybe in Matthew
Are Current Wars End Times Signs?
00:33:14
Speaker
24 about wars and rumors of wars? do are Are these wars a sign of the end? Is Jesus coming back tomorrow? I think when we look at it and we look at it in a historical perspective and then bring it into a spiritual perspective, but look at the historical perspective.
00:33:34
Speaker
The war, the world has always been good at war and we've had two world wars already and we're still here and each world war was the message preached. This is the end. This is the end. of I think one big thing that makes this a little different is the recognition of Israel as a state. Now in our modern history and people see war there and every time there's war there, then it's the end of the world now. But that that's been a battle that's been going on throughout all of the scripture for thousands of years as well. um If we go into a world war three,
00:34:30
Speaker
which I pray we do not. My, my prayer is that we don't, I think there are paths to peaceful resolutions. Sure. And I pray that those are sought and I pray that the good guys are bold at the table of negotiations and that the bad guys cower in fear and, and secede and back off and ah do as they're told.
00:35:00
Speaker
But if that does not happen and there's a world war three, I don't think that means it's the end of the world. Uh, I do think that when we read things like when we read through the chapter 24 of Matthew and the wars and the rumors of wars and how everything's going to be chaotic. I do think that our end will be pretty dramatic. The end of the world will be pretty dramatic. I think it'll be pretty war ridden. Uh, I think that we, we see that Jesus talks and, and that in, in Massey 24 about a time where they're going to be targeting Christians specifically. Um, and,
00:35:55
Speaker
I don't think that's the point of World War III right now. So I don't think I can say that's tied to Matthew 24, but they targeted Christians specifically for thousands of years. Yeah. Here we are. And here we are. um Maybe the end is when they just kill us all. And then there's no one to convince them to not be crazy in the whole world.
00:36:24
Speaker
at that point. Maybe that's what happens. I don't know. I just don't see any biblical evidence to say that a World War III or what's happening in Russia and Ukraine or what's happening between Israel and Hamas is just this you know time of tribulation that we talk about in Scripture quite often. Because honestly, I woke up today i And there's a bunch of crazy things happening in the world, but I still drank my coffee, ate my breakfast, playing with the kids.
00:37:05
Speaker
um And I mean, not really a tribulation, not, not really the great tribulation that has been talked about before. Yeah. i And honestly, I don't know if world war three is going to be near as
00:37:24
Speaker
devastating on life lost. I could be wrong. Don't quote me on this, but, uh, because the way we fight war is completely different now. It's changed a lot. Yeah. It's, it's a lot of bombing facilities rather than men and boots on the ground shooting at each other. We're not going to be storming beaches anymore. We're going to send drones in.
00:37:50
Speaker
uh, in the next 10 years, we're going to have robots that are doing probably less than 10 years. Really? Yeah. Well, I'm just, you know, I'm giving a little more time for Elon to, to work out the key. Yeah. and Right. But man, um, war is different. I don't know if the impact of a world war is going to be near is, you know,
00:38:20
Speaker
near as big as what people felt during World War I and World War II because people left to go to war and they didn't hear from the soldiers sometimes until they got back. ah yeah Didn't know if they did get killed. Some of people just took a very long time to get home. I like reading some of the stories about the travels home and and in those things.
00:38:44
Speaker
But now everyone's connected. The political fight is where the fight, uh, is really being fought for these world wars. I think much of world war three is more going to be bombing facilities and then sitting down at a table with leaders in our youth and seeing who's going to win and then argument. Um, if, if we have a world war three, I hope it just stays at the table. So I hope it just is arguments between leaders.
00:39:13
Speaker
They figure it out, they agree to disagree and and carry on and no lives have to be lost. But no ah no, I don't think this is this is the end. i think I think the end is...
00:39:30
Speaker
When I read scripture, if we look through Revelation and talk about the end all day, you're going to see one one common theme that reoccurs it reoccurs throughout the Gospels as well, that it's going to be like the days of Noah, where everybody was just awful and self-centered and they weren't repentant to people. There was only one one family there. And then you see in Revelation, you talk about the end of times and you see that the very end is these people hiding in caves. And instead of crying for mercy from God, they curse God and there was no repentance found in them. And that always takes me back to 2 Peter 3.9.
00:40:24
Speaker
I think that's the verse it is. i'm I'm not sure, but it's one of it's right in there. Um, but, uh, God is not willing that any should perish suffering.
00:40:38
Speaker
Uh, you know, calling all to to repentance and and giving a chance for repentance and everything I see about the end shows an unrepentant world. There's yeah no one left to repent.
00:40:52
Speaker
right but There's no one left. it's There's people, but they are so godless, so self-centered that even in the face of God's wrath, they can't submit to God and all they can do is curse God. yeah And right now, the places that are war-ridden, the church is on the move, man. There are yeah people turning to Christ.
00:41:17
Speaker
right And that's another thing that I liked about this book, the mystery of catastrophe that I read, uh, you know, I was talking about how the church moves and in the war time and in the bad times, because they're the biggest help. Uh, and they get out and they're the hands and feet of Christ. Yeah. Uh, during unimaginable grief and chaos, they're a source of peace and unity and love. So.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah. Um, that was a lot to take in man. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, like you were saying, um, there's no reason to believe that if something like a world war three was around the corner that the end has come. Yeah. And I think the greatest clarity comes from Matthew 24 that you were alluding to, especially verse six, Jesus says a couple of things actually to unpack here, but just verse six for now, he says, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars.
00:42:17
Speaker
See that you're not alarmed for this must take place, but the end is not yet. I mean, that answers it right there. Yeah. You will hear about wars. You'll hear, uh, reports and rumors about wars. He says it's gotta happen. It's gotta happen. Um, but surprisingly, he says, don't be alarmed, which, you know, he's not saying that, uh,
00:42:41
Speaker
There's not any shock value to hearing about war. Obviously that should disturb our spirit. We should condemn it outright. But he's saying, don't be alarmed in the sense that you think the end is just around the corner. He says the end is not yet. And in that passage, he talks about nation rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom, false Christ coming around. And he says all these things are but the beginning of birth pains. Okay. So that means.
00:43:11
Speaker
The baby ain't born yet, right? Birth pains are, he's talking about contractions here, which every woman knows about. And every mother knows that birth pains or contractions increase in frequency and intensity closer to the time of the babies coming into the world, right?
00:43:30
Speaker
And Jesus says these signs ah will increase in frequency and intensity. So there will be more wars and the wars we fight will be worse um and they'll happen more often. But still he says the end is not yet. And actually you were talking about the gospel going forth on these very continents and in these specific countries that are at war. And Jesus actually says in verse 14 of that passage,
00:43:58
Speaker
And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. And so, as long as there are people groups to reach, as long as there are nations that have yet to reckon with the testimony of the gospel, the world will continue to go on. But once that last nation has checked off, that has had a chance to reckon with the gospel, then Jesus says the end will come.
00:44:25
Speaker
um And really no, nobody knows that of course, except for the Lord God. So a lot to take in there. yeah um And one thing we can be happy about is that one day, all the, all wars will come to an end when Christ returns and us is in a perfect kingdom. Yeah. In perfection. That's, that's where it's at. And, and I look forward to that day. Uh, if it doesn't happen in my time.
00:44:56
Speaker
that He comes in my days of living. I know that I'll take my last breath and get to experience that fully. But that that's something too, when we talk about the end times, in times the the last of ages started the moment that Jesus ascended. exactly And it will come to a conclusion when he returns for his kingdom. Right.
Christians' Focus on the Gospel and God's Judgment
00:45:25
Speaker
Right. And it's been 2000 years now. Uh, I'm not going to complain if he comes back right now and if he comes in a thousand years, so be it. But I do know this, he has promised his return and he upholds his promises. Yeah. And I think you can go back to
00:45:51
Speaker
Romans chapter 12 there when we read Kind of a conclusion of this of of true true justice And I'm not gonna quote it. I'm gonna read it because I don't want to quote it and misquote it by accident But we we talk about Keeping peace as much depends on us. Mm-hmm, but verse 19 when it comes down to it Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath, for it is written, vengeance is mine. I will repay, says the Lord. Therefore, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him drink, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Vengeance is mine. I will repay is a big thing right there.
00:46:47
Speaker
when we have these jobs and these callings, we're we're not the one taking vengeance. That's God's job. And so we have to not let the evil that we face seep into our hearts and seep into our beings, but we have to give place to God and and give place the wrath because it's written vengeance as mine says the Lord. So wherever you're called,
00:47:18
Speaker
go forward with the Lord. ah Don't look at people as as necessarily enemies, but as someone that God wants a relationship with ah and you need you need to share the gospel with them and do your best to live out the gospel in front of them. And even when we talk about soldiers, that's that's one thing. I've known a lot of soldiers in my time. I've done a lot of good Christian soldiers. Well, how can he do that when you're going around and, you know,
00:47:48
Speaker
going into war and things like that. Simply do your job and don't overdo it. Do what you have to do, but every chance you get, make sure that there's an opportunity afforded to to bring peace, to to be kind. ah For example, think about prisoners of war too.
00:48:14
Speaker
Uh, there are countries that, that destroy their prisoners of war and, and hurt them and do all these crazy things to them. And for the most part, the United States takes care of prisoners of war. They, they treat them kindly. Um, now there's, there are sometimes people don't do that and it's wrong, but, uh, they treat them kindly and, and.
00:48:43
Speaker
They don't overdo it. They don't look at them as an enemy. They look at someone that is just on the opposite side at that moment and and hope for peace one day. And that's what we should do. And if we can reach the enemy, if we can reach the lost and dying world, if we can reach those that are evil with the gospel and it transformed their lives, then praise God. If they refuse and they reject it, God will pour his wrath out upon them.
00:49:12
Speaker
That's what he will do. They don't have to fill our wrath. Yeah. We need to leave the wrath to God. Right. Yeah. At the end of the day, that's a good reminder. and That's a good way to wrap this episode up actually is that Ultimately, vengeance belongs to the Lord. He is the true judge. Now he may use someone called to the military or our government officials to exact his vengeance, but ultimately it all belongs to him. And whether we get involved in conflict or not, we can rest assured that God will do what is just. yes As Abraham asked in Genesis, will not the judge of the earth do what is good and just? That's a rhetorical question. He absolutely will.
00:49:56
Speaker
Well, that's a good place to stop. and We want to thank you all for listening to this episode of the Faith 168 podcast. And we certainly hope that you all have gleaned biblical insights on this touchy and difficult subject of war. We really hope that God has brought you clarity. If you do have a question about what we've talked about today or any question about any biblical topic, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we might actually take up that question in a future podcast episode. yeah But anything to add, Chris, before we wrap up in prayer.
00:50:26
Speaker
No, I think I've said all I can say. All right. Now, nobody forget, here's the principle. Be a pacifist, but if somebody comes against you, pacifist through their face. There you go. yep yeah yeah I'm going to copyright that. so Yeah, you should. You should. Well, again, thank you all for joining us. We'll go ahead and pray for God's grace and blessing on us. Chris, will you pray for us? Yeah, certainly.
00:50:54
Speaker
Father, I just thank you for another time that we can sit down and look at these tough things to to think about and talk about and have those discussions. Father, we we don't want more. And so if there's any way possible, help us to avoid that. Be with the leaders of these nations that that we're dealing with right now. Be with the leader of our nation. Be with our president. be with presidents and the prime ministers of these other nations as they negotiate and and have their discussions. And I just pray that your peace would be brought in to those discussions, that there would be a solution. And Father, if there's not, if evil persists and continues on against us and other nations seeking your will, Father, just help us to be a beacon of
00:51:51
Speaker
of your love and grace, but also of your boldness to do what is right, what you have called us to do. And Father, just be with our military that are dealing with a lot of this right now and the families that are going through a lot of fear, I'm sure, at this moment, as they're uncertain of where their loved ones are going to be called, how long their loved ones might be gone. But just give them peace and comfort during this time. And no matter what, we're already facing calamity. Just help us as your children, as your church, to to be your hands and feet.
00:52:33
Speaker
and to serve this lost and dying world so that they might hear about you and turn away from their wickedness and follow you in faith. It's in Jesus' name that I pray all these things. Amen. Amen.